Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - RAGING HUSBAND GETS OUT OF JAIL, in just hours MURDERS PREGNANT WIFE

Episode Date: September 14, 2020

Young mother Caitlynne Infinger, 20, was pregnant with her second child when she died. After a brutal beating by her husband, Infinger pressed charges against her abusive spouse and decided to leave the marriage. At the time of the charges, 22-year-old Alex Guajardo was out of jail on a PR bond. It was his second bond for two DUIs, a hit and run, and an assault charge.This time, when he walked, within 18 hours Infinger was dead, stabbed multiple times. Guajardo told police he did not want another man raising his child. Now, Caitlynne’s mother, Melanie Infinger, is pushing for legislation, “Caitlynne’s Law,” which will prevent offenders from attaining consecutive PR bonds for violent crimes.Joining Nancy Grace today: Melanie Infinger - mother of Caitlynne Guajardo and Victim's Advocate, www.caitlynneslaw.org  Brian Mazzola - Attorney for Melanie Infinger, www.mazzolalawfirm.com Caryn Stark NYC Psychologist, www.carynstark.com  Josh Bruegger (Brew-grr) Pasadena, Texas, Chief of Police. [phone] Backup phone Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author,"Blood Beneath My Feet" Brandi Chionsini (Key-On-See-Knee) - Katy Times owner, Katy Texas Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A young mom-to-be is dead. Why was her killer released from jail and within hours killed her? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A week ago today, Alex Guajardo allegedly punched his wife in the face. Then days later, she found their cat dead. He was charged. The DA's office asked for a high bond. But instead, the judge let him out on what's called a PR bond.

Basically, you don't have to post any money to get out of jail. Just your word that you'll appear later. With that, he was out. PR, personal recognizance. In other words, kind of like the honor system. Again, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. And thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation Series XM 111.

With me, an all-star panel to break it down and put it back together again. Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and the star of Poisonous Liaisons on True Crime Network. Josh Bruegger, Pasadena, Texas, chief of police, a special guest. Karen Stark, renowned psychologist, joining us out of Manhattan at karenstark.com. Brian Mazzola, the lawyer for this gorgeous young mom-to-be mom fighting for justice. You can find him at mazzolalawfirm.com. And special guest guests in addition to the chief of police, Melanie Infinger, the mother

of Caitlin. She is now a victim's rights advocate and you can find her at caitlinslaw.org. First of all, to Brandy Chiancini, owner of the Katie Times. Brandy, I don't understand how someone is put in jail for a violent offense. They get bonded out by some, who is this judge anyway? That judge needs to be off the bench, he or she. And then the guy comes and murders this mom-to-be. First of all, what judge did that? Push for bail reform across the country and in Harris County. A couple of years ago, there was a ruling that said that the Harris County bail process

was unfair to those people who were poor because if they couldn't make the bail, then they were stuck in jail if they were indigent, had no money. So there was a lot of bail reform, and this was part of that bail reform. I guess I'll Q&A with myself. It's Judge Callen. Yes. But I think what you're trying to tell me, Brandy and with a lot of words, is that the judge was bound by the new bail reform. Is that what you're getting out? Is that what you're saying? Let me understand this. You can commit a violent crime and walk free. What is exactly the bail reform? You can beat somebody's smithereens and you don't have to post a bail? Well, the intent for the bail reform was that if it was a nonviolent crime or if it was a minor offense,

they could get out on a personal reconnaissance bond, which means you put up no money. I just explained that if you would just focus on the question, I would appreciate it because I really want to get to the chief of police and to this victim's mother. You know what? Let me go to the chief right now. Josh Bruger is with us, the chief of police in Pasadena, Texas. Chief? Good morning.

I mean, this girl is dead. The unborn baby dead because of bail reform. Or was it? Explain to me the bail reform there in Pasadena. Did this judge have to let the guy out? They've been given it. Excuse me, chief, chief, chief. I very rarely get to interrupt a chief of police, but hold on. Brandy Chiancini, I asked you what judge did this,

and you launch into something about bail reform. Now I'm finding out the judge didn't have to do this. So I got to figure out what the hell is happening and why Judge Callen is still on. Why is it that you're telling me, Chief Bruegger, that the judge did not have to let him out? So as part of the bail settlement, there were certain carve-out offenses where PR bonds were mandated. Assault on a family member was not one of those. Okay. There you go. Why did the judge, ROR, release on your own recognizance? Why? That's a fantastic question. I think that we're all wondering that.

You look at somebody like Alex Guajardo committing, committing that earlier, you know, literally beat Melanie, beautiful daughter, to a pulp on multiple occasions. And every sign was there that the guy was going to continue to commit crimes. And everybody just ignored all the signs. It's absolutely inexcusable. People that commit these kind of crimes say we're going to come back to court on time based on our own word. Well, these people's words mean nothing. They have no honor. It's supposed to be for violent offenders. Clearly what the guy was doing was violent. We were sold this whole story of bail reform being for people that were sitting in jail that couldn't pay a warrant. Obviously, it turned out to be anything but that. You know, I want to go back to the chief of police, Josh Bruger.

The chief of police is taking time to join us to try to explain what the hell happened and why Caitlin is dead. And it's not the police's fault. Look, I know bad things have happened. There are some bad apples within the police force and they make everybody else look terrible. I hate it when a prosecutor is unethical because it makes all prosecutors look nefarious and evil. But the police in this case did everything they could. This guy, the cops, put him in jail. They try to keep him in jail. But oh no, Judge Callen, James Callen, had another plan. I mean, how demoralizing, Chief, is it for your men and women who go out there?

And you know, when you go out on a domestic call, is that for your men and women who go out there, and you know when you go out on a domestic call, you're risking your life because that's the way it is. When you get between a man and a woman or boyfriend, girlfriend, and they're having some volatile dispute, one of them, usually the man, will shoot the cop. Absolutely. But your cops go out there, they get him, they break it up, they save her life, they put him in jail, and then he gets out. It's bad. And that's the frustrating part for the officers is they tried to do the right thing. The DA's office tried to do the right thing with a high bond,

and the system in this case failed, Caitlin. And that's the hard part is how do you continue to motivate police officers to go out there and do the right thing when on the back end, the right thing isn't going to happen. But when it begins to affect public safety, it becomes my business. Whoa. Who told you to stay in your lane? Who said that?

I've had judges tell me to stay in my lane. Was Callen one of them? He was not one of them that I know of. You know what? I can't believe a judge. You know everything I want to say right now?

I can't say on air. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about the death of a gorgeous young lady, a pregnant lady, a mom-to-be. Joining me right now is her mother. First, take a listen to our friend Marla Carter at KTRK ABC 13. The raging alarm has to do with Mr. Guajardo's past. On May 5th, 2019, Mr. Guajardo was arrested by the Houston Police Department for DWI in failure to stop and give information at a crash scene. Mr. Guajardo was released on a PR bond, and at the time of the murder, this past Saturday, those are still active cases. On July 31st, 2019, Pasadena Police

in where Mr. Guajardo and his wife lived, allegedly killed. During the course of that investigation, it was determined that Mr. Guajardo had assaulted his wife, Caitlin, and he was arrested for class A assault, family violence. The district attorney's office filed a motion for a high bond of $50,000, as well as a protective order preventing Mr. Guajardo from being near his wife. The FSGI, Mr. Guajardo was given a PR bond for the assault and was released on August 1st, 2019 with no bond conditions. It was just approximately 18 hours later that he went to the apartment and killed his wife and unborn child. Guys, you were hearing not the reporter Marla Carter at KTRK, but you are hearing this police chief. And that is the fact scenario. 18 hours after he gets out, thanks to Judge James Callen,

he murders Caitlin. And now with me, her mother, Melanie Infinger. Ms. Infinger, thank you for being with us. Is she there? Ms. Infinger, are you there? I'm here. Thank you for being with us. Thank you so much. Tell me about the day that you learned your daughter had been killed?

I was actually working, and I was trying to get in contact with Caitlin. I had called her numerous times. She had just picked up her baby at the time, was eight months old, Alexis. She was also pregnant, but she was a mom also. And she had picked up Alexis from my house earlier that morning. And I was trying to call her and text her and I could not get in touch with her. And as a mom of a child that was in an abusive relationship, I mean, I'm sure many parents can relate. I lived on the pins and needles. I was constantly worried, constantly anxious. So with her not answering her phone and not texting

me back, I immediately knew something was wrong. I knew either they were, um, that he had gotten out. I thought, I feared he was going to get out. Um, I didn't, I thought someone was going to bail him out. So I feared that he possibly got out and they got in a fight and he had taken her phone from her because that's what he always did. And so I kept texting her, calling her. Then an unknown number was calling me when I was on my phone. My parents just panic. And I said, someone's calling. I need to answer this phone call. I said, because it could be her at her neighbor's house on their phone. And that's what I told my parents. Like, I just assumed she was on someone else's phone. And when I answered the call, the person on the other end actually was like, Miss Infinger.

And I'm like, who is this? And they're like, have you, has no one called you about Caitlin? And I'm like, just, you just know, as a mom, you just go into complete, just, I was distraught. I mean, I just knew. And I started screaming. And I'm like, where is she? And they, and she even said, this isn't how we wanted to do this. We're going to have to call you back in five minutes. And I said, what are you talking about? Like they wouldn't tell me

anything. And I had to literally sit on the floor and scream for five minutes and wait for them to call me back to tell me that she was stabbed to death and was pronounced dead at the scene at the medical center. And, um, I didn't even know he was out. Like, I didn't even know he was out of jail. Um, I didn't even know what PR buttons were. I immediately went to blame. You know, I thought, you know, maybe someone in his family had let him out. We had all agreed. We didn't think anyone was going to bail him out. So, um, I just was angry. I was, I just couldn't believe how this could happen. And then I come,

I come home and I hear the news and I, you know, I the TV and I'm realizing, oh, my God, he didn't just get down. He didn't get down out. He got out for free. Like what happened to our justice system? Like what happened to putting people in jail for the like I felt like she was a domestically abused woman who actually did what we begged her to do for the year and a half she was with him. We begged her to press charges. We begged her to stand up to her abuser. And she does this for them to slap him on the wrist and let him out to murder her and her unborn child. And it just was such a slap in the face for all the abused women out there. And people wonder why these abused women don't go to, you know, have their abusers arrested.

I mean, because look what happened. And they just let him out to murder her. It's just mind-boggling. It's so angering and I will live the rest of my life, I mean, you know, in just trying to make a change and have a new mission to make sure that this does not keep happening. It's just very sad. Miss Enfinger, I'm a victim of violent crime and it changed my life forever. Because of my fiance being murdered just before our wedding many years ago, I couldn't, I mean, the impact lasts for your whole life. I could never consider trying again.

30 years passed. I still would not get married. I finally did it. And my daughter and I almost died in childbirth because I waited so long because of Keith's murder to try marriage again that my daughter almost died. My little girl is about seven years younger than yours. And when I hear you speak, all I can think about is my girl, Lucy, and my son, John David, and the pain you are suffering and the outrage, because it so easily could have been avoided. You said they let him out to go murder her. Guys, take a listen to Texas Police Chief Bruegger describing what happened, our cut six. On Saturday, between 4 and 4.30 p.m.,

Pasadena police officers responded to an apartment at 1911 Southmore in response to a 911 call. The 911 caller told the dispatcher that he had killed his wife and needed help. Responding officers arrived, contacted the male subject that had called 911, who was identified as Alex Guajardo, and was ordered to have blood on his pants. The defendant confessed to the initial officers that he had killed his wife and that she was in the apartment. Officers entered the apartment, found the victim, stabbed approximately 20 times across her body, several of those wounds to her abdomen. The victim was

transported to the hospital where several hours later she was pronounced deceased. The victim was also found to be approximately four months pregnant. The defendant confessed to stabbing and killing his wife, Caitlin Guajardo, over marital issues. And as it has been reported by the media, he stated he did not want another man raising his baby. And that was the reason he stabbed her so many times in the stomach. To Chief of Police Josh Bruger, joining us out of Pasadena, Texas. Chief, with all of the stabs, many of them at her stomach, that tells me he was absolutely targeting not just her but the unborn baby.

Absolutely, yes. Terrible. Chief, I know that he admitted, he confessed, he was covered in blood at the scene. But what was his demeanor? Was he in his right mind? Could he speak coherently? He gave a motive for the murder, did he not?

He did. And he was coherent and he was able to explain to the officers what had happened, give them some details. He, by all accounts, he was, you know, had his normal mental faculties about it. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, a beautiful young girl, just 20, is now dead. Stabbed to death.

Pregnant. because Judge Callen let her abuser out on an ROR, released on your own recognizance. One thing her mother keeps telling me, Melanie Infinger, is that at first she thought, who bonded him out? Don't they know better? But, Ms. Infinger, how shocked were you to learn nobody bonded him out? The judge did it all on his own. Oh, it just, it was beyond me. I mean, I just couldn't believe what I was hearing. I mean, I didn't even know that, I didn't know that was possible. I didn't know, like, I didn't, I just thought, where's the justice? Like, where, what are these, you know, know, like Brugger, I mean, and all these policemen,

they're out putting their lives on the line to arrest these criminals, and for what? You know, so they can go back out and murder people? It's just, it's maddening. To Brandi Chiancini, owner of the KD Times, joining us there from KD, Texas. Brandi Chiancini. Where is the defendant now? I hope the state is seeking the death penalty. He was charged with capital murder, and as far as I know, he's still in jail waiting trial.

And, you know, another important issue to Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University, now the star of Poisonous Liaisons on the True Crime Network. Joe Scott, yes, as you heard the chief say, he spoke coherently. He admitted what he did. He even gave the motive for murder. But come trial time, since he's been caught red-handed, he could easily back up with an insanity claim.

But the fact that, or accident, or voluntary manslaughter, but 20 stab wounds, you have time in 20 stab wounds to form intent, which can be formed in the blink of an eye. And what other forensic evidence will the state bring forward to prove a murder case? And it darn well be capital murder. What's the forensics, Joe Scott? Yeah, well, let me tell you this.

You go back in time, Nancy, to these times when she has been beaten before, that data that they collected for treatment relative to the injury she had previously sustained are going to go to establish a pattern of physical abuse relative to this poor woman and this unborn child. And so you're going to marry that up with the blood, obviously, that we talked about that was on his body. You can say all day long that he was crazy or that he was acting abnormally. My favorite one is when they always say, well, I blacked out and I don't remember.

You don't remember stabbing someone that you claim to care for and create a child with. You don't remember stabbing them 20 times because you're right. This is not something that just kind of, you know, happens. You know, it's something that he had the chance to do. Well, you brought up something really interesting know, it's something that he had the chance to do. Well, you brought up something really interesting right there. Because, back to you, Chief Brugger, if he had been acting abnormally, why would the judge have let him out if he showed any signs of mental illness?

That's a great point. You would like to think they wouldn't. So when you have a bond hearing, the judge directs the defendant that he's got to follow certain conditions and so forth. The judge had a chance to look at this guy and question him before he let him out. I mean, back to you, Ms. Infinger, mother of Caitlin. Now you can find out all about her at Caitlin'slaw. org. Miss Infinger, this guy ain't crazy. That is a load of BS. That's a technical legal term, but I predict it may rear its ugly head at trial.

Yeah, he's definitely not crazy. And like and as they were saying, I mean, there is we have so much back end as far as his abuse, the control, the jealousy, the isolation. And we just have so many. He has such a history of, I mean, he was not crazy. He moved her all the way to Pasadena, away from us, just to get her away from us because we were the ones, like, fighting for her to leave him and, you know, and how abusive he was and we were scared for her.

And he did everything, you know, an abuser, I mean, you know, all the, hit all the signs, all the red flags. And so, you know, he, it just, I, I trust, I absolutely do think that I know the DA has a great case. And, and I don't, I don't, honestly um don't think that there's any chance that that he's going to get that he was crazy or mentally insane i i if that happens i'll just i will just lose it but no i i think they have so much evidence to support that he was um right let me ask you this you mentioned all the previous offenses how long had he been beating her and mind controlling her? The mind control and the jealousy started very early on in the relationship, I would say within a few months. And I do believe that he got her pregnant. I think it was all part of the control. I do believe she got pregnant very early on. And then within about three or four months, they were married. You know, she had Alexis, who is now will be two in November.

And then she had another pregnancy. She had another pregnancy in the middle of her when she was murdered and Alexis. And we actually found out about the second pregnancy when she was in the ER from the abuse. She couldn't open her eyes. He nearly broke her nose. I mean, it was awful. I mean, it was like when she sent me a picture. I was at work.

It was like 1 in the morning. She was in the car with my parents. My parents had picked her up. They lived a few blocks over from us at the time. And she just, I didn't even know about the physical abuse. And that was February before the August she was murdered. So that's when we knew of the time. And she just, I didn't even know about the physical abuse. And that was February before the August she was murdered. So that's when we knew about the abuse. And she said, mom, you know, he just took it too far this time. This has been going on. I mean, she told me it

had been going on like every weekend. I mean, she said, so I had no idea. So it was from that moment on, you know, and she was scared. We wanted her to press charges. Police did come to the hospital and encourage her to press charges. She, in that moment, found out she was pregnant with her second child. And then a week later, she miscarried. And we do believe it was from the abuse because she told us details about what he had done to her. And it all, I think, led back her being miscarrying that second child but I she was separated from him because of the abuse and the control when she got pregnant with her third child that she was pregnant with and she was murdered I was sitting

at a restaurant and she told me she was pregnant they were separated she was living with me at the time and I just broke down in tears because I just knew it was his manipulative way of controlling her and making her come back to him. And I lost it. I just I wanted to be happy for the baby. And I was obviously like, you know, later. But I was just so scared for her and that child. And then, you know, she finally said she like she stood up or sit her ground and had him arrested. Had his parents come and get all his belonging out to the apartment, was starting over for her and her children.

And then they let him out, you know, and he killed her. And it's just awful. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Karen Stark with me. Psychologist joining us from New York. And Karen, I'm going to hook you up with Melanie after our program because, Karen, I know you can help her. Karen, you know, you and I have sat on many, many dark studios talking during commercial breaks and have met many, many times for lunch or dinner to talk about cases. You know, I worked in the Battered women's center for nine years at night.

This story is as old as time, and I don't know when this story is going to end, but what signs can other people look for to avoid domestic abuse? This girl is dead. For those of you just joining us, we are talking about a beautiful young girl, Caitlin. Oh my goodness. She has one little girl, now two, miscarried a second, and was carrying a baby at the time she was brutally murdered, stabbed multiple times, 20 times, including directly in her stomach. Now I know if I was talking to a jury right now, some of them would turn away because it's just too much to take in, stabbing her in the stomach. And I would tell that jury, look them right in the eye and say, don would turn away because it's just too much to take in, stabbing her in the stomach. And I would tell that jury, look them right in the eye and say, don't turn away.

Oh, no, no, no. You cannot turn away because this is the truth. And we have a chance to do something about it instead of looking the other way. Karen Stark, I know Melanie Infinger is going to agree with everything you say. What do we look for? And then you see Caitlin had moved out and then she was murdered. What do we look for and what do we do, Karen Stark? Well, first of all, Nancy, I just wanted to say to Melanie that my heart goes out for you. I am so sorry, really deep in my heart for what happened to you. And Nancy, it happens so often. Just like you said, we talk about it, we try to do something. And it's very, very hard to pin this down. It's a vicious cycle. What you look for is a woman who you can see that she has bruises and she'll say to you that she tripped, she fell, somebody bumped into her. And you also

get to see in the man involved in these cases that he apologizes profusely. He does whatever he maybe he maybe this cat killer would buy a new cat and say this will never happen again. And the woman is so tied into the situation that she cannot get herself. She can't extricate herself from this person. He comes back with more and more promises that it will never, ever happen again. And she loves him and is so used to being a part of this that she says, okay, this time I have hope he will be different, and it's never different. And just like her mom, you really have to plead to get

that woman away from this violence. You have to plead. And isn't it true to Chief of Police, our very special guest joining us, Chief Bruegger, along with Brian Mazzola and Melanie Infinger, the violence will escalate. I know you've had your men and women trained in this when the woman tries to leave. When the husband finds out, the boyfriend finds out she's going to leave, that's when the violence will definitely escalate. And that's what happened here, Chief. Absolutely. And it ends up being a cycle. The cycle's not broken. You know, they go back oftentimes. There's a honeymoon period.

They try to make things right. But at some point, the violence typically comes back. And when it comes back, it usually comes back more severe than the previous time. And, you know, we try and try to, you know, get victims out of this situation. But it's such a mind game. It can be very, very difficult to get them to finally leave. And it can be a life or death decision many times. I mean, we have a lot of domestic violence related deaths, unfortunately. You know, to you, Joe Scott Morgan, I don't know

how many autopsies and death scenes you've been on and conducted, you know, tens of thousands, but I don't know why they call it domestic homicide. That makes it sound so warm and cozy. Domestic, your home, your domicile. It's anything but. Yeah, you're absolutely right. I mean, even, you know, people, they think homicide and they automatically go to things like, you know, that I've been involved in, like serial homicide and all that stuff. Listen, let me tell you something. Those are few and far between domestics are rampant. They have been for years now, Nancy, and they are some of the most brutal things that I have borne witness to. I'm talking about scenes and forgive me for saying this. I'm talking about scenes,

literally a wash in blood where I have fallen down because there was so much blood beneath my feet on these scenes, slipping, sliding. It's the lengths that these people go to that commit. And, you know, it's not like this guy was going one-on-one with somebody that is his own size. And Karen can probably comment, this is what you call asymmetry, where you've got this big, dominant, brutish person, and he's going against a pregnant woman, Nancy, and not just a pregnant woman, but a mama to boot. She's already got a child, and he's going to do this to her? It gives you an idea of how primal all of this is, and it's absolutely horrible,

and nothing, and I mean nothing, is being done that is effective to interdict these situations. To Brian Mazzola, the lawyer for Melanie Infinger, that is Caitlin's mom, tell me, and you can find Brian at mazzolalauffirm.com, what do you hope to gain with Caitlin's law? Well, we want to take a lot of the discretion away from these judges, magistrates that are not looking at the criminal history. P-T-L. I don't know what your background is, but that means praise the Lord.

Because I don't like these judges like Callan doing this. And it's like you can't stop them. I would sit back in court, Mazzola, I'm sure you have to. And I'd watch the judge and listen to them making one erroneous ruling after the next. In fact, like I held in contempt when I said to the judge, judge, just turn around. And there's that code book. It says OCGA on it, Official Code of Georgia Annotated. And I can tell you the section, it's section blah, blah, blah, where I can tell you your ruling is wrong. I got held in contempt. They don't want to know that they're wrong and they're going to keep on doing it until we make them stop. So how are you going to do that with Caitlin's Law?

Well, maybe not a mistake about it. This guy's got blood on his hands. And, you know, that's what we're aiming to change with Caitlin's law to add provisions to the bail system. Bail schedule, I should say, that states under certain instances that the magistrate does not have the discretion to release criminals on PR bond. One of those exceptions being whenever the defendant's been previously charged with assault family violence, which obviously in this case happened. And, you know, given the set of facts, had this provision been in the bail schedule, then we wouldn't be talking about this today. Well, Brian Mazzola, you are a champion in my mind, as are you, Chief Brugger. To Melanie

Infinger, the mother of Caitlin, who is fighting to get Caitlin's law passed all over the country where judges cannot release these domestic killers. You know, when I heard that he, I'm not even going to say his name, the killer would control her phone, take her phone away right there, right there. You don't take your equal co-partner phone away. Right there, that simple little act tells me he is controlling her. I got a question for you, Ms. Sinfinger. Do you ever feel that Caitlin has tried to contact you or give you a message? Oh, all the time. I mean, I feel her, and she leaves me signs all the time. I mean, I feel her and she leaves me signs all the time. I mean,

I talk to her every day and I know she is just proud and pushing me forward. And I see her in her baby's eyes every day. And I'm raising her daughter, Alexis, and she absolutely talks to me all the time and just is smiling and just'm just cheering you know us on and and just and I know she's proud and she tells me that often. Miss Enfinger you're stronger than I am the thought of not having Lucy or John David I just would not want to live anymore I just would not want to live and you are carrying on to raise her daughter. You are one strong lady and I pray for you and your granddaughter and Caitlin and that somehow you can make a difference in this world. I know you already have in my life. Thank you.

Caitlin's. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. www.caitlinslaw.org. Please help us help Melanie make a difference in this world. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off. Goodbye friend.