Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Rape Victim DEVASTATED After Judge Sets Rapist Free

Episode Date: January 14, 2022

An Illinois judge reverses an 18-year-old man’s sexual assault conviction — saying that the 148 days he spent in jail was “plenty of punishment.” Cameron Vaughan, 16, went to a graduation party on May 30, 2021. Vaughan, who waived her anonymity, says that she woke up at a friend’s home with a pillow over her face and 18-year-old Drew Clinton raping her. After the assault, the girl told her father, who called the police. Clinton has claimed the encounter was consensual. Clinton had a bench trial in October, which resulted in Adams County Judge Robert Adrian convicting him of sexual assault. The charge carries a minimum sentence of four years in prison. During Clinton’s sentencing hearing on January 3, Judge Adrian announced that the teen would not be sent to prison as he is changing his verdict to not guilty. The judge said that Clinton has already spent 148 days behind bars — which he asserted was “plenty of punishment,” according to WGEM. The judge not only noted that Clinton had no prior criminal history, but he criticized the parents at the graduation party for allowing minors to drink alcohol and swim in the pool in their underwear. Judge Adrian has faced mounting backlash for not only reversing Clinton’s conviction but for the victim-blaming comments he made during his sentencing hearing. He has been reassigned.Joining Nancy Grace today: Megan Duesterhaus, Ph.D. - Executive Director, Quincy Area Network Against Domestic Abuse (QUANADA), Quincy Illinois www.quanada.org, Instagram https://www.instagram.com/quanada/ Darryl Cohen - Former Assistant District Attorney, Fulton County, Georgia, Defense Attorney, Cohen, Cooper, Estep, & Allen, LLC, www.ccealaw.com   Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, (Atlanta GA) www.angelaarnoldmd.com, Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University, Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital  Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder, ColdCaseCrimes.org, Twitter: @ColdCaseTips Dr. Ron Elfenbein - Emergency room physician Founder and Medical Director  FirstCall Medical Center Gambrills, Maryland. Author, Surviving Coronavirus: An ER Doc's perspective (Free- Barnes and Noble) Matt Hopf - Executive Editor, The Herald-Whig, Quincy Illinois,  WHIG.COM, Instagram/Twitter: @MHopfWHIG  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Well, it's a Stanford rape case all over again. Remember the name Brock? Because I sure do. When a woman is sex assaulted out by the dumpster and the star tennis player walks free because the judge was involved at tennis in Stanford

before he took the bench, that caused an outcry like no other. And you'd think something like that would never happen again. Why do we always think it will, quote, never happen again? Because guess what? Every single time it does happen again. And now another rape victim is left in tears being deflated by a single judge. That's why I hate bench trials. When you don't have a jury and you let the judge make the decision. You know what? I put in the cart before the horse.

First of all, take a listen to my old friend, Tom Roberts, Daily Mail. Listen. On May 30th, 2021, 16-year-old Cameron Vaughn attended a graduation party. Tom Roberts, Daily Mail. Listen. test. Armed with evidence, the Vaughn family took 18-year-old Drew Clinton to court. In October, he was found guilty of criminal sexual assault by Judge Robert Adrian in a bench trial. There is no jury, only a judge. Clinton was facing a minimum mandatory sentence of four years in prison, but that all changed on January 4th when Judge Adrian reversed his decision. According to the court transcript, he said, there is no way for what happened in this case that this teenager should go to the Department of Corrections.

I will not do that. Mr. Clinton has served almost five months in the county jail, 148 days. For what happened in this case, that is plenty of punishment. Clinton was set free. His guilty conviction overturned. Drew Clinton cannot be charged again under the rules of double jeopardy. Yeah, once you're tried, you can't be tried again. Don't you remember how happy OJ Simpson was when he was found not guilty?

He could never be tried for double murder again. It's called double jeopardy. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Everybody, wherever you are, look around you. I'm looking right now because one out of four women, girls, teens around you, at least one out of four have been sex assaulted. Think about it.

One out of four. Yet a very minuscule percentage of rape victims come forward. Why? Because of people like Judge Robert Adrian. Judge Robert Adrian. Let's remember his name. What happened to the case? With me, an all-star panel to try to make sense of what we know right now. Megan Disterhaus, PhD, Executive Director with the Quincy Area Network Against Domestic Abuse. And she's got a lot to say, as you can imagine. Daryl Cohen, former felony prosecutor in inner city Atlanta, now private lawyer at Cohen Cooper Eastep and Allen. Wow, that sounds important. Dr. Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist joining us out of the Atlanta area, specializing in the treatment of women.

Founder and director of the Cold Case Research Institute at coldcasecrimes.org, Cheryl McCollum. And together, she and I in the trenches have seen a lot of rape cases very similar to this one. And I can guarantee you this. Nobody walked free after a rape. Not if I could help it. Dr. Ron Evelbein joining us. ER physician, founder and medical director of First Call Medical Center and author of Surviving Coronavirus. Wow, that's a whole nother can of worms, Dr. Ron Ethelbein. But first

to Matt Hopp, executive editor at the Herald Whig, Quincy, Illinois. You know, a lot of people have never heard of Quincy, Illinois. I know how that feels coming from Macon, Georgia, but this is a heck of a way to get your town on the map. So let's just start at the beginning. Do I have it right, Matt? And please, everybody jump in. Don't wait for me to come to you with a question, except you, Daryl Cohen. Matt, do I understand that adults were having a swim party at their home for a group of teenagers as young as 16 and willingly allowed them all to get a snootful to drink and jump in the pool in their underwear? I mean, it was a swim party. They didn't think to bring swimsuits? My understanding, it was a swim party. They didn't think to bring swimsuits. My understanding, it was a graduation party.

That's what the family has talked about. Booze. That's what I'm asking about, Matt. Booze. There was alcohol at the party that the teenagers were consuming. And, you know, when teenagers drink, you know, sometimes they'll jump in the pool. And rape people? Maybe they'll jump in whatever they're wearing.

Okay, whatever they're wearing would be clothes, not their underwear. That's apparently what happened. She apparently had jumped into the pool in her underwear, according to... And not just her. Let's not single out her. And you know what? I like Tom Thomas Roberts. I worked with him for a long time at HLN.

But when I get a hold of him, I'm going to grab him by the ear and twist it because he started his report with she admitted she had been drinking. Oh, oh, OK. So the rape didn't happen because she had been drinking. Okay. So Matt Hopf, executive editor at the Herald Whig in Quincy, um, at Whig.com, Matt, I'm a JD. That's a lawyer. I'm not a DDS. I don't know how to pull teeth, but I can certainly try. So I've managed to get out of you that people were jumping into the pool in their underwear at the swim party at this private residence where alcohol was being served to teens as young as 16. Now, let me understand something, Matt. What is the legal age to drink in Quincy? 21.

Has anybody slapped these parents with a lawsuit yet? Not that I'm aware of. Me either. I thought maybe you had heard something or knew of something brewing that I didn't know of. But I agree with you, Matt. No lawsuits yet. And that's a big emphasis on yet.

Guys, as you can tell, this has all gone sideways. Take a listen to our cut 18. Our friends at Inside Edition. This high school teen is furious after a judge set free the student she says raped her after just 148 days in jail. 16-year-old Cameron Vaughn says she was assaulted at a graduation party last May. I woke up and I couldn't really breathe because I had a pillow over my face and I could feel somebody like contending I said stop multiple times and he wouldn't. In October a judge found 18-year-old Drew Clinton guilty of sexual assault

but now he is reversing his decision and releasing Clinton from custody. Mr. Clinton has served almost five months in the county jail, Illinois Judge Robert Adrian said last week. For what happened in this case, that is plenty of punishment. Plenty of punishment. 148 days in the county jail. Let me ask you this. To you, Daryl Cohen, former felony prosecutor, now private attorney in the Atlanta jurisdiction, have you ever seen Andy of Mayberry? Of course. Okay.

Let's just walk on by. And you know about the county jail when Otis would walk in? The town drunk. I know we don't say that anymore. The town alcohol-addicted person comes in and lets himself into the cell and then locks the key and hangs it on the wall. OK, it has it has. Why? And give it to me in a nutshell. Because I know you're used to making long, loquacious arguments to judges and jury or captive audience. In a nutshell, why does everybody want to serve time in the local jail versus going into the system in the pen?

Nutshell. Well, let's talk about, Nancy, let's talk about local jails, not large city jails such as Atlanta or New York or Chicago. Hit me. Local jails are easy. You get home-cooked meals. You're taken care of. You don't have to worry about other violent criminals being around you. It's much easier. It's not a country club, but it clearly is not a prison. does 148 days behind bars at a local jail.

And after there is a bench trial where the case is tried in front of a judge, not a jury, FYI to all you lawyers out there and anybody listening, don't do that. Do not have a bench trial. You never know what a judge is going to do. The judge himself convicts this guy of rape on a 16-year-old girl who wakes up with a pillow over her face being raped, according to her.

The judge finds him guilty on one of the four counts. The penalty for criminal sex assault in that jurisdiction is 4 to 15 years. As I recall, Matt, 4 to 15? Yes, that would be correct for a Class 1 felony, yes. is four to 15 years, as I recall, Matt, four to 15. So he gives them... That would be correct for a Class 1 felony, yes. So when it comes time a month later for sentencing, they all come to the courtroom for the sentencing, and the judge suddenly reverses his own decision

and says 148 days is enough and lets the rapist walk free. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. All right, Cheryl McCollum, let me understand this. Wasn't the girl, she wakes up in tears. She calls her father, which tells me this really happened. The last thing you're going to do after consensual sex at age 16 is call your father to come pick you up. Okay, that's not going to happen. She calls her father.

He comes and picks her up. And Matt Hopp, Harold Wigg, don't they go to the hospital and get a rape kit? What happened was after the party, they had went to another acquaintance's house where she was going to, I believe, spend the night. And that was the location where the sexual assault occurred. And after she had said she had pushed Mr. Clinton off of her, that she went to another room to speak to a friend, and they apparently took her back to her house where they just spent the night in her parents' RV. And then the next morning, she told her father who called the police, and it was the police who transferred her to the hospital for the rape kit. Where did the rape occur, Matt Hoff? It was at another home. It

wasn't at where the party took place. It was like a friend's home. And how was the defendant, Drew Clinton, related to the party house? I don't know how he was related to the party house. I just know that he was there. It might have been, he might have been invited. He might have known somebody there. Okay, back to you, Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute. Jump in. Nancy, a lot of men wonder why women crochet vagina hats and wear them and march on Washington. It's because of crap like this. You and I started our careers in domestic violence and rape crisis. And we are having the same conversations that you and I had 30 years ago. It is absolutely maddening that you're going to

sit there even today. We're going to talk about she was drinking and she went skinny dipping and what she was wearing and where she passed out. Nobody's talking about him. Nobody's talking about what he had to drink, what he was wearing, whether or not he went skinny dipping. Well, I can tell you one thing he wasn't wearing, and that's his pants. All right? So let's just start with that. And she says, Cheryl, that after she pushes him off her, she yanks up her own pants, and he just jumps up and starts playing video games like nothing happened. Okay, hold on. I need to shrink on this. Dr. Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist joining us out of Atlanta. You can find her at AngelaArnoldMD.com. Angela, jump in. Nancy, if people haven't worked with rape victims,

then they have no clue how hard it is for a rape victim to come forward. This little girl at 16 years old comes forward, and now a judge has emboldened her rapist. And let's think about something. Nancy, not every boy in the country rapes a girl just because there might be an opportunity to do so because she might be passed out. So there is something wrong with this boy. OK. Yeah, he's a rapist. He is a sexual predator and he always will be.

And now he's been emboldened by this judge. Take a listen to our friend Dave Mack at CrimeOnline.com, Hour Cut 7. The parents of Cameron Vaughn have provided a copy of the Quincy Police Department report to the Herald-Wig that detail what they say took place at a Memorial Day weekend graduation party. According to 16-year-old Cameron Vaughn, she attended the party, got drunk, went in the pool, and eventually passed out. She told police that she woke up with a pillow being pushed on her face and that she was being sexually assaulted by Drew Clinton. Clinton is from Michigan but used to attend Quincy Public Schools.

Cameron says she told Clinton to stop, but he didn't until she told him a second time and pushed him off her. According to the police report, Cameron went into a bedroom in the house where she told a friend what happened. She got a ride back to her home with two friends where they slept in her parents' camper before they went into the house in the morning. Once inside the house, Cameron told her father, Scott Vaughn, at which time he called the police. Two special guests joining us, the executive director of the Quincy Area Network Against Domestic Abuse, Megan Disterhaus. Megan, thank you for being with us. You know, one thing that was very important to me when I prosecuted rape cases, and I prosecuted more of them than I can even count or remember, is outcry. Outcry. What is outcry? Outcry is a technical legal word, actually,

when in the case of rape accusations or other felonies. And it refers to a victim at the time, contemporaneously with the crime, making an outcry. In other words, telling someone what happened. We're seeing it right now in the Epstein, um, Jelaine Maxwell case where Virginia Jeffries, we now know made an outcry about Prince Andrew having sex with her when she was 16. At the. We're hearing now, all these years later, about an outcry witness. This young girl, just 16, makes outcry to her friends

and then goes and tells her dad, and I can tell you this much, if that had been consensual sex with another teen boy, the last thing she would have done is go in and say, hey dad, guess what happened last night? That is not going to happen. Why is this so important, Megan? Well, I think that what's really happened here is this judge in this case, he made all these statements in court on the record to the victim and her family. And when you're going into a trial

like this, you always want to make sure that your victim understands that court cases, whether it's a bench trial or jury trial, can really go either way in sexual assault cases. And you want the victim to be prepared that there might not be a conviction and that the perpetrator might get to walk. But what we typically don't have to prepare them for is that they might be chastised by the judge in open court on the record, have their parents chastised when they were in court for a sentencing where they, I believe they were meant to be there to read their victim impact statement. So this young woman came into court prepared to tell the court how she had been impacted and affected after this assault. And instead she got a verbal diatribe from the judge.

What was she chastised about, Megan? The fact that she was drinking underage, that she attended a party and got in a pool and didn't have a suit to wear underwear. Like from an advocacy perspective, none of that matters. It absolutely matters. I'm sorry. It does matter. Okay, you know what? You, Daryl Cohen, are going to have to

take your turn. It'll be a cold day and you know where Daryl Cohen didn't have a drink when he was 16. First of all, just for safety reasons, Jackie, let's mute him. Daryl Cohen, just for a moment. Please finish. Megan, distra house.

Yes. It doesn't matter in the sense that when you make a risky decision or an unwise choice, like let's say underage drinking, and you get maybe arrested for that, the penalty is usually like, you know, a fine, a drinking ticket. You might have to do some community service to a nonprofit. The penalty for underage drinking is not rape. And also, swimming in your underwear, even swimming nude, running around naked is not an invitation for sexual assault. People are able to control themselves. It is absolutely offensive

to men to suggest that because they may see someone in their underwear or swimming in a pool, that they will later not be able to control themselves. Nancy, and I'd like to point something out also, was everybody raped at this party? Exactly. She was not the only one jumping in in her underwear. So that has nothing to do with this. The rape didn't even occur at the party. The rape was at like a third location. crime stories with nancy grace okay daryl cohen before you start your rant let me ask you one question and this is a yes no answer daryl cohen veteran trial lawyer, joining me out of Atlanta. Isn't it true that when you prosecuted rape cases, you prosecuted cases where a victim may have been drinking at the time of the rape,

may have been using drugs at the time of the rape, may have been a prostitute at the time of the rape, may have been on a date at the time of the rape, may have been on a date at the time of the rape. Isn't that true? Yes, but. That's a yes, no. So now that you're a defense attorney, you want it the other way. Okay, have at it. We're ready for you.

No, Nancy. If this girl was drunk, there's a difference between drinking and drunk. Did this actually happen? Obviously, it did. Did this happen as a rape? We don't know that. Are there other witnesses? I wasn't at that trial.

But let's not castigate everybody. I like bench trials when I think my client is innocent. I love jury trials if I think my client is guilty because 12 men and women can sometimes be convinced and confused where I want that judge who if I know him or her I know how they will think and that's I want a jury trial come hell or high water don't care who the judge is don't care who the defendant is don't care who the victim is I don't care who the victim is. I trust a jury more than I trust some political hack appointee up on the bench that really doesn't even know the law. But that's just me because I like a true verdict, a verdict that speaks the truth. But hold on. If you're still not

convinced that this girl was raped, even though this jackass judge then later reversed his own verdict and let the defendant go. This girl and her father go for a rape kit. Let me go to Dr. Ron Efelebein, ER physician that in medical school, it is very, very intense, and you deal with so many life and death situations. But I'm going to ask you a very practical question. In the ER, where you practice now, which I think must be one of the most stressful positions for a doctor. I mean, you could be out in Beverly Hills doing plastic surgery, pumping up people's lips and sucking out their fat and all that.

But instead, you're on the front line. And I consider that God's work. That's just me. Dr. Elfenbein, again, thank you for being with us. In the emergency room, that is where you typically see rape victims first, correct? Correct, yes. What is a rape kit? What did this teen girl have to endure in order to make her case? And please, just be blunt. Yeah, so before I get to that, I'm just curious because I've been listening to the whole conversation. Why would the prosecutor allow this to go forward at the next trial? Why didn't they ask for a jury trial?

Okay, Darrell, jump in. Quite frankly, perhaps the prosecution had, the state's attorney, had no ability to say no. He or she could have said, I don't agree. But in that jurisdiction, apparently the prosecution either didn't care, agreed with the request, or didn't have the standing to stop it. Can I just enjoy the moment when I actually get to tell a doctor something that they don't already know, which is never, ever. Dr. Elfenbein, he's actually right. The Constitution is written to protect the defendant. So in some jurisdictions, the defendant could have the right to demand a bench trial just as they can demand a jury trial. Lucky for me, I would always throw a ginormous fit in the courtroom if anybody wanted a bench

trial. Now, once in a while, I think there were two occasions I went along with it. And I'll tell you why I don't like bench trials. And, you know, actually, in this case, Dr. Elfenbein, you got a tiger by the tail. You can't hold on and you can't let go. And what I mean by that is, if you throw a fit and don't want a bench trial, then the judge thinks, it takes it personally. The judge takes it personally that you don't want them to hear their case. But then if you go along with it and agree to the bench trial, then you have some A-double-S, that's a technical legal term, like Judge Robert

Adrian hear your case and totally destroy it. So you're in a quandary. Do you placate the judge and go along with the bench trial, thinking you got a great case and what idiot could come up with a not guilty? Or do you throw

a fit and go with the jury trial and have the judge rule against you every time you have a motion. So it's a legal quandary. Dr. Elfenbein, rape kit. I hope you weren't just avoiding the question of what a rape kit really is. I always kick it off with pubic combing, which nobody wants those two words in a sentence together.

Go ahead. You be my guest, Dr. Elfenbein. What happens, I can't believe I'm laughing at this topic. I'm sorry. It's very inappropriate, but this is an interesting conversation. So what happens when a patient comes in with an alleged assault, be it sexual or otherwise, the first person that sees the patient, obviously the triage nurse, and they take the story from the patient. They do their vital signs and then they put them into a room and then the er physician will come in and assess the patient and if the er physician believes that there's any question of in this case sexual

assault um you know basically my job would be to look at the patient as a whole talk to the patient but i don't do an actual rape exam on the patient i call what what's called a forensic nurse. I believe every jurisdiction in the country, at least that I'm aware of, as far as emergency rooms, have these available. And the forensic nurse is somebody who comes in after I've assessed the person, me being the ER doctor, after I've done my assessment

and determined that there's no life-threatening problem and the patient is medically stable. At that point, the forensic nurse comes in and they do their assessment. Now, that involves things like they do a full pelvic exam. So obviously they insert a, they do it as thoroughly as possible because they want to maintain the chain of custody and they want to be able to obtain any evidence. And generally the police will be involved at this point as well if it's an alleged sexual assault. So the police have also seen the patient, taken their story, taken pictures of the patient,

and then they're involved with the forensic nurse. They work together to identify if there's a vaginal laceration or a vaginal tear, there's bleeding, there's trauma to the area, or a rectal. It doesn't have to be vaginal. The police will get involved, take pictures, that sort of thing. The forensic nurse at this point is gathering evidence. They are obtaining any statement if there is any, again, taking pictures. And then they write this whole thing up as their assessment based on what their experience tells them.

And then we all get together and huddle up, myself, the forensic nurse, and the police, and we discuss the case. Not so much from my perspective as, you know, the potential for rape, because that's not really why I'm there. I'm not a judge. I'm not a jury, nor am I an attorney. So I'm there to make sure the patient is getting what she or she needs to get and that they're taken care of and that all their medical issues are being taken care of. We will discuss things like post-exposure prophylaxis for things like HIV and hepatitis and things like that. So we decide whether or not we want to give the patient medication based on their story and based on what the nurse has found to keep them from catching any potential sexually transmitted diseases. And at that point, the forensic nurse steals the evidence that they have.

They have a special way to do all this. I'm sure you're more familiar with it than I am regarding chain of custody. And then that is handed over to the police and the police take it from there. And then the nurse writes his or her assessment. And then that becomes part of the chart and part of the evidence. Dr. Elfenbein, you left out the pubic combing. I'm sorry. You can laugh all you want. Have you ever had one done?

No, no. So they do look at the pubic hair and they go through that as well to make sure that there's nothing missing. With a fine toothtooth comb. Yes. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. So my question to you, Sharon McCollum, who in the hay would sign up for that? Exactly. An anal and vaginal exam. And then maybe having photos taken of your vaginal and anal area.

Who would do that? Unless it was someone insistent that they had been raped? Nancy, let's let's break this down. This weak, pitiful predator selected an easy target. We call them a soft target. This 16 year old victim was drunk, unconscious, and asleep. She is the perfect victim for a rapist. And he was counting on the fact that she would be too embarrassed and maybe have a foggy memory and she would not report it. He picked the wrong victim. Well put. Speaking of the victim, let's hear cuts.

And typically we would hide the victim's face and name, but she has broken her silence after she ran out of the courtroom in tears, feeling as if she were going to vomit when the judge all on his own reversed his own guilty verdict and let her rapist walk free. Take a listen to our cuts 11 and 12 together. This is Cameron Vaughn speaking to WGEM. I immediately had to leave the courtroom and go to the bathroom. I was crying. I think every other girl should know that this is a normal thing and they need to come out with what happens to them

and not just let the guy get away. Does it bring back the memory, as I mentioned earlier, of Brock Turner? Take a listen to our cut 13, our friends at NBC. A jury found a Stanford University swimming star guilty of three felony sexual assault crimes. He could have served more than a decade in prison. Instead, he got three years probation and will serve three months in county jail. I think that this sentence is inappropriate. Stanford law professor Michelle Dauber is outraged by Judge Aaron Persky's sentence and is leading an effort to get him off

the bench. Getting good grades or swimming fast or you know being good at lacrosse is a basis for giving you an exception from the California state minimum penalties, then basically what you're saying is it's open season on college women. The judge cited the defendant's age and lack of criminal record at the sentencing. The victim, who admits she was drunk the night of the assault, wrote a 13-page letter to the judge urging prison time and an apology. I was found unconscious, bra pulled out of my dress, butt naked all the way down to my boots, legs spread apart and had been penetrated by a foreign object. She was right. Brock Turner was a swimming star and the judge in the case had been affiliated with Stanford Swimming. So what toll has this incident taken on the rape victim take a listen to our cut three

blake salmon awgem her dad scott says the fallout has been swift my family is destroyed because of this he says cameron used to be an honor roll student at quincy high school who ran cross country and track and field now she's lucky to carry a C average and she's dropped out of all sports. All of her learning is at home now. She can't go to school. But Cameron says what happened to her shouldn't stop other victims from seeking justice. I think every other girl should know that this is a normal thing and they need to come out with what happens to them and not just let the guy get away. Now Scott Vaughn says his family could file a civil case, but they're not planning on doing so.

To Megan Disterhaus joining us, Executive Director, Quincy Area Network Against Domestic Abuse. What has this judge's ruling, Judge Robert Adrian's ruling, done to victims all across the country? You know, I have been getting messages and emails from people not just across the country, but even internationally. I woke up to an email today from someone in Sweden. And what I keep hearing is how deeply, deeply disturbed people are by this story, usually followed by a paragraph in which they disclose an assault that has happened to them previously in their lifetime that in most of these cases they were unable to report. So you have a bunch of people out there with, you know, unhealed, unaddressed traumas being triggered right now. And, you know, they're angry and they're hurting. Take a listen to Cameron herself speaking.

Our cut's 9 and 10. I woke up at my friend's house with a pillow over my face so I couldn't be heard and drew Clinton inside of me. It made me seem like I fought for nothing and that I left, like put my word out there for no reason. Her word is probably more far reaching now than it would have been had the defendant done his jail time. Back to Matt Hopp, special guest joining us, the executive editor with the Herald-Wig there in Quincy, Illinois. Matt, tell me, what has the fallout been as it relates to Judge Robert Adrian? I understand that following his reversal of his own guilty verdict on the defendant, Drew Clinton,

he then threw the prosecutor out of court on another case. The prosecutor came into court on a car crash, I believe, that killed four people following the rape case. And the judge said, get out. My wife showed me online where you liked a post that attacked me. I can't be fair to you. Get out. Who is this judge? Yes. So on Wednesday, this week, after the story had come out, there was a status hearing in another case. And he ordered a prosecutor who wasn't even involved with this case we're talking about. He was sitting at the prosecutor table with

another local prosecutor and the judge said, you can leave my courtroom. And he kind of looked at him and he goes, you're excused. And he said, judge, and he said, my wife saw that you liked something on Facebook that attacked me. I can't be fair with you. Get out. Hey, can I just jump in and add, Matt, that the thing that was liked on Facebook was apparently the statement from my organization, Quincy Area Network Against Domestic Abuse. So was he going to throw every prosecutor out because they're all from the same jurisdiction? And that was kind of the surprising part is because the prosecutors, of course, are going to be very supportive of victims' rights. And so I don't think there's

a prosecutor at the Adams County Courthouse who wouldn't have liked that if they had thought or if they had Facebook. Matt Huff, I understand that Judge Robert Adrian has been reassigned. What does that mean? It basically means he will not be hearing criminal cases. He typically had a criminal docket two days a week at the Adams County Courthouse, and he has been reassigned to civil matters, small claims, probate, etc. Is he elected or appointed? He was first elected in 2010. And in Illinois, they put up a retention after every six years. You mean they get to reelect them every six years?

Basically, it's like a yes or no question. Would you like to retain this judge? So can another person run against him? No, it's just a yes or no question. Ugh, that doesn't seem right. Okay, let's hear what everybody has to say. Dr. Ron Elfenbein, in your experience with rape victims, you see them on the front lines.

What does this mean to them after all they go through to prosecute their case? Yeah, it's it's it's just heartbreaking and completely devastating, obviously, to them and to everybody around them. As you heard, you know, you read that or you heard the piece the father was talking about their families devastated. I mean, it's horrible. And this woman had the courage to come forward and to say something and then to have the judge rule one way and then for whatever reason or just decide because he thinks he's a god somehow that he can just overturn his own ruling is just mind boggling. And it's completely devastating to this poor lady and her family. And these people are just completely traumatized when they show up to see me in the emergency room. It's horrific. Hey, you know, another thing about that, and I guess I'll go to Dr. Angela Arnold following on what Dr. Elfenbein said,

it's when you have become a violent crime victim, and I know for myself, you're not the same. People that knew me before my fiance's murder say I had a completely different personality. I don't remember that, but apparently it's true because everyone says it. You're never the same again, Dr. Arnold. Oh, I know. Nancy, I also want to point out, and this is a great time to point this out. Nancy, there are two studies that have found that blaming sexual harassment victims is linked to empathy for the male perpetrators. So that means men in particular are more likely to feel for the male harassers and blame the victim. So I imagine it's time to start going after some of these judges. Okay, Daryl Cohen, there you go. Now I understand why you're taking the defendant's side.

Oh, Nancy, that could not be any more incorrect if your life depended on it. And fortunately, it doesn't because I love you in spite of disagreeing with you. Look, we have to take... Tell me something new, Cohen. Let's not generalize. Let's be specific. If this judge thought about it and saw the evidence and heard the evidence and saw the body language and saw the facial expressions, then this judge had a reason for changing his

verdict. And if he did, it's probably what he thought was right. I'm so glad you said that because you're right. This judge did see facial expressions, demeanor, behavior, body language, her testimony, and he found the defendant guilty. Okay. Then upon reflection, I wonder what was involved in his reflection. He reversed, as many people would say, his own self. Megan Disterhaus, William. Yeah. I mean, look at the court transcript. He was very clear that the reason that he reversed his decision was not because he reconsidered some piece of evidence. It was clearly because he figured out that there was a minimum sentence of conviction for could be a constitutional error because the judge is to separate the evidence, fact-finding, guilt or innocence, from sentencing. Okay, Cheryl McCollum, final thought.

If Drew Clinton had used a knife instead of a penis, people would understand the gravity of this crime. The weapon he chose just happened to be a penis. Second thing, because of the bravery of Cammie, I believe more victims very likely may come forward for this perpetrator. Matt Hoff, executive editor, Harold Wigg, Quincy, Illinois. Is there any talk of throwing the judge off the bench or somehow appealing this? I haven't heard any talk about trying to appeal his ruling. My understanding is if any, there's been talk about that would invoke double jeopardy issues. And I've heard there's been a petition online to asking him to resign.

Yeah, there is a petition online. You're right, Matt Hopp. And I'm just throwing it out there, and this is something for all of you legal eagles to think about. Matt Hopp is absolutely correct. He can never be retried for this case under double jeopardy. You have one swing at the ball on felony trials, but the judge's reversal, I would consider an appeal on the fact based on what Megadister House is telling us, you don't reverse a fact-finding decision such as guilty verdict, based on the sentence. Those are two very distinct

legal issues. And if the judge used the sentence as a reason for reversal, this could be grounds to reverse the judge's reversal. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.