Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Red-Headed Beauty/Bride-to-be, Shoves Little Old Lady to Her Death

Episode Date: March 24, 2022

Barbara Maier Gustern was shoved from behind outside her Chelsea residence. Friends found the well-known and beloved voice coach in the apartment lobby covered in blood. A bicyclist spotted the injured 87-year-old on the street and brought her in. Gustern hit her head during the attack and was taken to a hospital for medical treatment. She ultimately passed away from her injuries after being placed on life support. Now, a New York woman is facing manslaughter charges. Police released security footage of the incident, which showed Lauren Pazienza reportedly shoving Gustern before running away. Police, also say the suspect returned to watch, as the victim was carried away by ambulance. Police had been looking for Pazienza for weeks when she arrived at the police station Tuesday with her lawyer and turned herself in. Pazienza reportedly hid at her parents’ house. So far, no motive for the attack is known.Joining Nancy Grace Today: Troy Slaten - Los Angeles Criminal Defense Attorney, Slaten Lawyers, APC, Twitter @TroySlaten Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, (Atlanta GA) www.angelaarnoldmd.com, Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women, Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University, Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital Dr. Kendall Crowns – Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth), Lecturer: University of Texas and Texas A&M, Affiliated Faculty: University of Texas Medical Branch Paul Szych Former Police Commander (Albuquerque, NM), Author: "StopHimFromKillingThem" on Amazon Kindle, StopHimFromKillingThem.com, Twitter: @WorkplaceThreat Rebecca Rosenberg - Fox News Digital Crime Reporter, Author: "At Any Cost", RebeccaFayeRosenberg.com, Twitter: @ReRosenberg Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Imagine this. You are just standing on the corner, on the sidewalk, when someone comes up to you, shoves you down, you hit your head,

and die! Out of the blue! Dead! Now imagine it happens to your mother, your sister, your grandmother. And then to top it all off, cops can't find the perp. Now think about this.

What if you find out the perp is a woman? That's statistically highly improbable. But that is what happened to a beloved voice coach, Barbara Gustern. Out of the blue, this lady minding her own business is shoved down on the sidewalk. She hits her head and dies by a complete stranger.

What is going on? The manhunt takes over the city. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. First of all, take a listen to our friends at NBC4. A single bouquet of flowers sits on 28th Street tonight where Barbara Gustern was shoved to the ground last week.

Today, family announced that the beloved singer and renowned voice coach did not survive. Hearing about it made me feel like I got hit on the head with a hammer. On Barbara's Facebook page her grandson posted a photo of him holding her hand in the hospital writing, today at 1115 a.m. we've lost one of the brightest little flames to ever grace this world. The tributes came pouring in. She was so wonderful, she was encouraging, she was firm. She was the perfect teacher. Just that sharp, clever, you know, seasoned person, you know. It's like, she was amazing. Stephen Shanahan owns restaurant and theater Pangea, where Barbara had recently performed

and where she had hoped to premiere a new cabaret show. They sing and they tell stories. It's very heartwarming. And they've done several different shows here. You know, when I hear that, it immediately gave me a flashback to being by my father's side when he passed away. And everyone else was saying, go ahead. You can go. And I was whispering directly in his ear, Daddy, don't go. Please don't go. Please stay here with me. I don't know what Barbara Gustern could hear or know as her beloved grandson stood by holding her hand.

But I know this. She's hand. But I know this. She's dead. And I know this. Somebody pushed her. And I know this. There's surveillance video out there that is going to be highly significant. Now, take a listen to our friends at Inside Edition. The victim's grandson, A.J. Gustern, did what he could to

comfort her in her final days. I myself underestimated my grandmother's impact on the city and on folks, so it's just, it's an unspeakable tragedy. He took this photo grasping his grandmother's hand. I was with her when she passed. I was holding her hand. Needless to say. Debbie Harry sang at Gustern's 85th birthday party. This, you know, special night to be here. Gustern also took the mic at her party. My dear, dear, dear students and friends and they make my life happen. Wow, I didn't realize that she was the voice coach for Debbie Harry.

Didn't she do, did she do Heart of Glass and so many others? And this was her voice coach? As the tributes come pouring in, this reminds me so much of being in court. I could not let myself get sucked into the emotional tornado, the twister that was happening, because it makes you unable to focus on the facts and evidence you need to get justice. So what do we know about what happened to this beloved woman? Take a listen to our cut in seven from Inside Edition.

On the night she was killed, killed Guster was on her way to see her student Sondra Vigil perform at Joe's pub a popular cabaret I was looking like always to see her and the audience that they couldn't see her I'm very much hope that they will find this person to To end that way is, it just hurts. Katherine Crockett was a student and friend. She said Gustern gave her and countless others the confidence to go after their dreams. After several months, she said to me,

she said, you know, she said, you have a great voice. You can call yourself a singer. You've got a great voice. You can call yourself a singer. You've got a great voice. You can call yourself a singer, a teacher, a voice coach to some of the biggest stars in the musical sky. And now she's dead. Why? Who is this woman that pushed this lady down, killing her. I was just thinking about what the one student just said. She was supposed to be there that night, and I kept looking out in the audience for her. It reminds me of the twins when they would be, I don't know, jumping in the water or singing a song or doing karaoke in the playroom, and they always look back at me. Are you looking?

Are you looking, Mom? Are you listening? Did you see that? It's almost as if it's not really happening unless that special person is looking, is seeing you. And that's what Barbara Gustern was to so many people that special person. Is she looking? Did you hear me?

What do we know about the facts? Take a listen to our friends at NBC4. Barbara was walking half a block away from home when video shows a woman come from behind and push her and then take off. According to family, Barbara suffered traumatic brain damage. We're asking the public's help in solving this disgusting and disgraceful offense committed against a vulnerable elderly female who was doing nothing but walking down the street. While the family makes funeral arrangements, the police are putting up these flyers all over the neighborhood. They're offering a $3,500 reward for any information that helps them find the woman in that video. Who would pick out a frail little old lady,

seemingly with the voice of an angel, and push her down, making her hit her head on the sidewalk and die? With me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now. First of all, high-profile lawyer joining me out of L.A., Troy Slayton. You can find him on Twitter, at Troy Slayton. We're now psychiatrists joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, Dr. Angela Arnold at drangelarnoldmd.com.

Dr. Kendall Crowns, Chief Medical Examiner, Tarrant County, that's Fort Worth, Lecturer, University of Texas, Texas A&M, and University of Texas Medical Branch. Paul Zeit, former police commander, joining me out of Albuquerque, author of Stop Him From Killing Them on Amazon. But first, to our special guest joining us, Rebecca Rosenberg, Fox News Digital and author of At Any Cost. Rebecca, thank you so much for joining us. It's really hard for me to believe, but it seems to show up accurately on video. lady, an 87-year-old voice coach with the voice of an angel, is standing there on the sidewalk when an unnamed, unknown woman with long red hair comes up to her and just shoves her. And I believe the evidence says she called Barbara a bitch. Yes, that looks like that's what happened. It seems unclear if an altercation occurred beforehand, but police and prosecutors have given us no indication.

So it was described as a completely unprovoked attack. Wait a minute. Wait a minute, Rebecca Rosenberg. Rebecca, the video shows a young, white-ish female with red hair walking toward the 87-year-old woman and pushing her down. Now, am I right or wrong? Did this woman walk across the street to get to Barbara? Yes, you are right. Okay, whoa. So, right there.

To you, Troy Slayton, if this little old lady had stepped in front of the perp, had shoved her, had, I don't know, knocked a bag out of her hands by accident. That's one thing. But then there is under the law what we call the cooling off period. And let me be clear, there is no evidence these two, the redheaded woman and Barbara, an 87-year-old voice coach to the stars, had ever met or had any interaction at all. What we know from the video is you see the voice coach standing there and the perp walks across the street to her and shoves her down. If there had been any altercation, like the little old woman running into her or getting in her way,

that would not matter under the law because of the cooling off period. She went across the street to shove the old lady to her death. Nancy, pushing someone who's on the sidewalk, pushing someone who's on the street, if they even have the right person, because the video shows her going near the victim. It does not actually show the shove. We don't see the actual shove on video at this time. But even assuming that she did push her, pushing someone on the sidewalk isn't the same as, you know, pushing someone onto the subway tracks. It's not like pushing someone in front of a taxi. No. You push somebody on a New York street, and they fall in the street. You think those cars and cabs and trucks are going to stop?

It's like stepping directly out of your front door onto I-75. That's what it's like to live in New York. Trust me, I know. To push somebody down on a sidewalk is not the same as pushing them in the street. You don't intend for someone to die. What you say about that, the woman died from the blow on her head. She could have pushed the woman down on a playground. And if the woman dies, that's homicide. Well, just because you have an eggshell plaintiff doesn't mean that this person intended for her to die. Does that matter? Or created an extreme danger that she would die. Hey, I don't know who you think you're talking to, but I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. You're talking to, but I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. You're talking to a trial lawyer, and the law says that the law presumes you intend the consequence of your act.

You shove an 87-year-old woman down on a cement sidewalk, then you can presume she will hit her head, and you can presume there will be a head injury. And that's exactly what happened here. Spring breakers and parents, beware. The disappearance of honor student Natalie Holloway is a warning. We head to Aruba with Natalie's mom. What can we learn? Nancy Grace's shocking new investigation streaming now only on Fox Nation. Sign up today. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Dr. Kendall Crown, put aside your autopsy. Tell me what a traumatic injury like this is and isn't it true it can occur as a result of a shove to a cement sidewalk? So yes, it can occur due to a shove to a cement

sidewalk. A lot of people don't understand if you fall from a standing height and you aren't able to catch yourself, you can actually get a skull fracture. And then the injury that results inside your head causes bleeding on the brain, bruising of the brain. And the problem with the elderly is as we age, our brain slowly starts to shrink or atrophy. And when this happens, the vessels that come off the brain start to stretch and any shaking of the head can result in those vessels tearing, which results in bleeding in the space between the brain and the skull called the dural space. And that results in a subdural hemorrhage. And if you get enough blood occupying that space, it shoves your brain kind of down through this hole at the base of the skull called the foramen magnum, and that pinches your brainstem and kills you.

So it can happen to anybody. If you fall from a standing height and hit your head, you can get skull fractures and bleeding on your brain like that. So it doesn't matter if you're elderly or if you're young. It's being shoved or punched in the face and falling to the ground from a standing height is actually very dangerous. I'm trying to take everything in that you just said. So Troy Slayton, before we unleash him from the mute button again, a high profile LA lawyer joining us. He knows his way around the courtroom with a sterling reputation, I might add. He's with Slayton Lawyers there in LA. The law does not require the intent to kill. For instance, if I take a gun and I pointed at Jackie right there and pull the trigger, and then I might, oh, wait, I didn't mean to kill her.

I just meant to scare her. B.S. Says the law. You intend the natural consequence of your act. You shove an 87-year-old woman down the sidewalk, she hits her head, then the law presumes you meant to cause a head injury. That resulted in death. You want to fight some more? Yeah. In New York, Nancy, to be charged with first-degree manslaughter, you have to have an intent to cause injury, intent to cause serious physical injury. That's right.

Or intent to cause— You know what? What about it? Let's go to Paul Zyke, former police commander. My mother will be 91 in December. If somebody shoves her down on a sidewalk, it will kill her. And I know that. And I have to be careful and watch over her every single day to make sure that doesn't happen. Help me out. You shove an 87-year-old woman down on a cement sidewalk and then to argue you didn't mean to hurt her? And that's a good point, Nancy. And the charge

of manslaughter is definitely appropriate in this case. You know, it's likely to cause. I mean, if you go behind somebody and they're not prepared, they're not thinking they're going to be pushed, you do that even to somebody who's younger and you forcefully push them from behind, you know, they may not have the time to get their hands out in front to stop their head from bouncing off the concrete. And it just exacerbates that when you have somebody who's 80, you know, years old and your reflexes slow. And I think it shows intent that the person crossed the street,

went up to this individual and, you know, carried out the attack. Yeah, it's not homicide. It's not first degree murder, but it's certainly a reckless, dangerous act. Well, excuse me, Paul Zeit, when did you go to law school? See, I just got here. You're a former police commander. Did you go to law school? Well, no, ma'am. Have you ever heard the theory of felony murder? When you commit a crime,

a felony, such as an attack on the elderly, and they die as a result of that attack, then you are charged with felony murder. A death occurs during the commission of a felony. Now, I need you to study that, Paul Zyke, because that's exactly what this is. Guys, take a listen to our friends at Inside Edition. She's a wanted woman sought for what cops are calling a disgraceful crime. She allegedly pushed an elderly woman to her death. The victim was legendary vocal coach Barbara Mayer Gustern, who coached many famous singers including Blondie's Debbie Harry during her Heart of Glass heyday. It happened here in Chelsea neighborhood.

Police say Barbara Mayer Gustern was violently pushed to the ground by her female assailant. She hit her head. She remained on life support before passing away one week later. The surveillance video of the wanted woman was taken moments after the assault, which cops say was unprovoked. Cops say she actually crossed the street to deliberately push the elderly woman. Let's go to our special guest joining us, Rebecca Rosenberg with Fox News Digital. Rebecca, what is the

evidence that the perp, the redheaded woman, actually shoved Barbara? So there is a witness who saw this whole thing and went to help the woman afterwards, brought her into her building. And then there's also video surveillance. I don't believe it's of the actual shove, but of the aftermath. And they got a very clear image of her right afterwards. She was identified by the witness and two people. And there were multiple cameras that placed her near there throughout the whole alleged crime.

So the eyewitnesses can say that woman on the video is the one that shoved the old lady to the ground? Yes. Guys, take a listen to our cut 11 from NBC4. This attack happened on March 10th on 28th Street in Chelsea on Gustren's block. Detectives gave us surveillance from that night. They say that she stayed in the area for about a half an hour and left only after she saw an ambulance arrive. We now know that investigators tracked her movements through the subway when she met up with her fiancé all the way until they got to their apartment in Astoria.

I'd like to stress, innocent until proven guilty. You know, if she did do this, then I would like answers, but this woman deserves her day in court. Why? If police know they aren't sharing that tonight, they are telling us that the suspect cursed at the victim. And before she died, the victim told police the push was as hard as she's ever been hit in her life. I feel very vulnerable. Look, I'm older, and I have a cane that just screams, start up with me, because I can't defend myself.

I will to the death, but it, you know, it makes you feel like you have a target on your back. You know, to Dr. Angela Arnold joining us, renowned psychiatrist out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Dr. Angie, thank you for being with us. Did you hear the elderly neighbor saying, I feel like now I've got a target on my back. I walk with a cane. It just screams out, hit me. Well, I think it's also a reminder that elderly people can be very vulnerable just walking down the street. We're all vulnerable, but as you said, an elderly person knocked down on the street by somebody who in the world knows what her intentions were. That's what I'm wondering. What were her intentions? But yes, I believe an elderly woman walking down the street with a cane is a vulnerable human being.

Well, that's the thing about the law, Dr. Angela Arnold. The law does not require a prosecutor to wander around in the mind of a killer and figure out, wow, what were they thinking? Motive is not required. So what we do have to prove as prosecutors is jurisdiction and the act. crime stories with nancy grace and back to rebecca rosenberg joining us from fox news. Would you explain again exactly what we think the video and witnesses say happened to Ms. Gustern? Yes. So I think the strongest bit of evidence here is the eyewitness who actually saw the assault

and went and helped the woman, brought her into the lobby of the building, and Ms. Gustern told her, you know, this woman crossed the street, she called me a bitch, she shoved me harder than I've ever been shoved in my life before losing consciousness. And then that eyewitness, after they pulled surveillance video that showed her fleeing, identified the woman in that surveillance footage as the woman who shoved, that she saw shove Ms. Gustin. Police began to hone in on who they believe brought about the death of this beloved

87-year-old woman. Can I tell you, my mom, who typically was taller than me her whole life, her whole life, now she's about this tall. My mother, who was such a powerhouse, so dynamic in her younger years, she's this tall now. And I think of Miss Gustard standing there on the sidewalk, a busy sidewalk, and a young, fit woman walks across the street to call her a bitch and shove her down. She hits her head and then dies. As police hone in on who may have done this thing they come up with a name

take a listen to our cut 14 our friends at inside edition authorities say pazienza and her fiance who works for microsoft got into the subway at penn station they transferred at times square and then took the train to their apartment in Queens, leaving a digital trail with the fiance's MetroCard. Pazienza allegedly spent the next few hours taking down all her social media and photos, including the website for her June wedding. Police say the day after Gustern died, Pazienza went into hiding at her parents' Long Island home. She stayed there for two weeks. Meanwhile, she must have known that police were on her tail.

They released video of her at the crime scene and plastered wanted posters across the city on Monday. Two people who knew her well called in the tip detectives went to her parents home. Her father reportedly told them she wasn't there but wouldn't let them

search the house. The next day, she knew it was over, and she turned herself in. So two people that recognize the wanted posters turn her in? That's what we're hearing now. So give me a description of the woman, Rebecca Rosenberg. What does she look like? She is a young, fit woman in her 20s, quite attractive with long red hair. I mean, she just around and watched the aftermath. Did you hear that, Dr. Angela Arnold? This redheaded woman stood by and watched the aftermath, I guess, across the street.

Did you hear that? I did. Nancy, I believe that it shows a gruesome level of evil. Okay? She pushes this woman down, and then she wants to watch and see what happens. And then she—this woman knew everything she was doing. And then she goes home, takes down her social media, hides from everybody. There is no way that anyone can ever say that there's any insanity involved in this.

Okay? She knew every step of the way what she was doing. So Troy Slayton, high-profile L.A. criminal defense attorney, Troy Slayton, you think it's just a coincidence that she goes home the case, I'm sure you would say that all of those things show consciousness of guilt and they show her trying to cover up her tracks and therefore that shows a guilty mind. But I read her allegedly standing there and watching emergency services take care of the elderly victim, I read that differently. Maybe she was there feeling guilty, feeling bad, feeling remorse for what she had done and making sure that the person was being taken care of, making sure that—

Can we get back to deleting all of her social media? Making sure that she was being taken care of by emergency services. Why didn't she, if she was so worried about the old lady, why didn't she help her? Help the lady. Because she's not, she's a young woman in her 20s. She's not, you're going to leave that to the medical professionals. Okay. Did you just really say that?

Did he say that, Dr. Angie? He did, didn't he? Okay. Never mind. I know the answer to that myself. Take a listen now to our cut 10, our friends at NBC4. The police detailing tonight how they say that she tried to evade capture for weeks. They tell us that she quit her job, deleted all of her social media, got rid of her wedding website.

She was supposed to get married in June. They also say that she stashed her cell phone at her aunt's house and then hid out at her parents' house on Long Island. Midday Tuesday, we finally saw 26 year old Lauren Pazienza, her hair draped over her face, refusing to talk just after police charged her with manslaughter, saying that she shoved and killed 87 year old Barbara Gustern. I think she was a crappy person. I mean, who goes around shoving an old woman? Gustern was a beloved Broadway voice coach.

She gave lessons to the greats. Her grandson is still trying to process losing her and the arrest. Yeah, there is a sense of closure. Back to Rebecca Rosenberg joining us from Fox News Digital. What do we know about this woman, 26-year-old Lauren Padienza? We know she's from a pretty good neighborhood, Port Jefferson, Long Island. She went to the Fashion Institute of Technology where she graduated, and she had a good job.

It's unclear exactly where she was working right before this, but she had been working at a high-end furniture store prior to that as an event planner. And she was engaged to her high school sweetheart who works for Microsoft and they were supposed to get married in June. You know, we're learning a lot about people, about her through people that have lived with her, lived with her in the apartment building, people that went to school with her in the past.

Are you familiar with any of that, Rebecca Rosenberg? In fact, one boy that she went to elementary school with says he was so traumatized by this woman. Even when she was in like second with, says he was so traumatized by this woman. Even when she was in like second grade, she was a bully. Yes, she had a reputation of being a bully. That kid said that, you know, the teacher had to separate them in the classroom. She would kick him.

She would call other kids' names. And then at the building where she lived with her fiancé, a lot of the tenants there said she was difficult. She was known for complaining a lot. And that there were, I spoke with one tenant who said there were a lot of incidents that occurred out front, but she wouldn't go into the details. But she seemed to, you know, that this wasn't a total aberration. There was some odd behavior that occurred before this. To Dr. Angela Arnold, psychiatrist, joining us, a bully. You know what? I still remember, and it bothers me to this day.

I wish I knew the little girl's name. In the second grade, I cut in line on a little girl who was wedding to cross the monkey bars. And I don't remember doing it intentionally, but I turned around and saw her face and she was sad. That has stuck with me the rest of my life. I still feel bad about it, about cutting in in front of somebody in the second grade for Pete's sake. I mean, nobody wants to be known as a bully. No one wants to hurt other people's sake. I mean, nobody wants to be known as a bully. No one wants to hurt other people's feelings. And Nancy, this is why we look into people's backgrounds and see when did these

kinds of things happen? Were you killing animals? Were you starting small fires? All of these things are indicative of what you become when you're an adult. And it doesn't go away. You and I would not walk down the street anywhere if no matter what anybody did to us, we would not shove an old woman down. No way. I'm just looking at this behavior, kicking and tormenting another little boy in the second grade. And to be a girl on top of that, to do that. I'm sorry to be. People say top of that to do that i'm sorry to be people say i'm sorry but they're about to say something really wrong okay this is a little bit more of what we are learning take a listen to our cut 15 crime online.com's dave mack 26 year old lauren pazienza grew up in long island where her dad dan, runs a successful business that was previously ranked the number one cesspool company in Suffolk County.

Growing up in this upper middle class area, a former classmate who spoke to Fox News Digital on the condition of anonymity claimed that when he moved a few doors down from Pazienza in the second grade, she began bullying him. The classmate says the defendant always had a crazy look in her eyes and alleges that she would kick him and call other kids names he also claimed that a teacher had to move their seats apart in one classroom due to the bullying at ward melville high school a teacher told fox news digital that her colleagues with children who went to the school with pazienza recalled her as odd troy slayton defense, aren't you glad that similar transactions don't go all the way back to the second grade? Or the jury be hearing about that? Yeah, I'm glad that there's no habit and routine evidence that goes back to second grade, Nancy. But even if she was a bully,

even if she is an awful person, even if she has a strange look in her eyes, doesn't mean that she's a murderer. No, it doesn't. And it doesn't mean that she's guilty of first-degree manslaughter. I think that the prosecutors in New York overcharge this crime. None of that is admissible. And none of that means— Nancy, this is second-degree manslaughter.

None of that is admissible in court. I agree with you. None of that means that this woman, Lauren Pazinza, is a killer. However, I do agree to some extent with Sigmund Freud. I think by the age of four, you're set. You may vary a little bit in your personality, but that's it. And here at second grade, she's bullying people in her class. Interesting. I'd like to hear what she has to say in response to that. Take a listen now to our cut 16 again from crimeonline.com. After graduating high school in 2013, Lauren Pazienza attended the Fashion Institute of Technology in Manhattan and worked as an events coordinator for a high-end French furniture company. She was seen gallivanting around town, attending swanky parties and art gallery openings before she resigned her position

last December. But neighbors at the upscale Astoria condo where she lives with her fiancé said she wasn't all smiles at home. Law enforcement sources say that Pazienza was a known nuisance in the Shore Towers and had previously called cops on her neighbors. A woman who lives in the building says there was always an issue with her and someone in the building. It's always like something with that lady. Another man who also lives in the building described her as definitely not the best tenant.

Again, i've got to agree and it pains me to do so with troy slayton none of that a murder makes but maybe this does take a listen our cut 13 our friends at inside edition we're learning more about the young woman accused of an unspeakable crime, shoving an elderly lady to her death for no reason. Police say six minutes after the unprovoked attack, the suspect, 26-year-old Lauren Pazienza, walked back to the scene and watched an ambulance take away the elderly woman, 87-year-old Barbara Gustern, a renowned singing coach.

The suspect's high-powered lawyer, Arthur Idalis, spoke to reporters after her arraignment and previewed what may be her defense. Whether it was a push or whether it was a shove or whether it was a kick or whether someone tripped, the evidence is not very solid on that at all. Police say the victim remained conscious long enough to tell them her assailant, who she had never met before, crossed the street, then called her the B-word, and pushed her as hard as she had ever been hit in her life. Back to Rebecca Rosenberg, Fox News digital crime reporter again. Thank you for being with us. Has this woman, Lauren Pazienza, made bond. Did daddy come pay her bond? Not yet. Her attorney says that they are trying to pull it together, pull the money together.

They're actually pulling money with friends and family to be able to post the percentage of the bond they would have to post. But she is still in Rikers. We actually went to try and visit her yesterday. She declined our visit, but we briefly saw her. She came out in her gray jumpsuit and her long hair was disheveled, looked at us, turned around and walked away. Rebecca, what do you think is going to happen? I think she is. Well, actually, I learned an interesting little tidbit today, which is that she's been in touch with her fiancé from jail, and they're still together. So I don't know. I hope they're not planning on having a June wedding when she gets bailed out. That would be pretty bad optics for her.

Rebecca, what else do you know? That the family's pulling together money to try and make bail within the next 48 hours is what her lawyer said. To Dr. Kendall Crowns joining us, Chief Medical Examiner of Tarrant County, that's Fort Worth. The voice coach, the little old lady, 87-year-old Barbara Gustern, suffered traumatic damage to the left side of her brain. She was intubated. What does all that mean? So when she fell, she probably struck her head, probably received a skull fracture of some sorts, but also internally her brain, when you fall, will hit the side of your skull and it will get bruising or contusions and will also tear and cause bleeding. So that's probably the head trauma

that they're talking about. And then intubation means is after the brain swelling gets to a certain point, you're having difficulty maintaining your breathing. And so they have to put a tube down your mouth to help you breathe. Is there a difference whether you're hit on the left or the right side of the brain? Does it make a difference? Not really because, you know, you have two sides of your brains or two hemispheres of your brain. And each hemisphere kind of does redundant things. So you might get paralysis on one side of your body due to damage of one side of your brain. But you can still stay alive. Guys, more of what we know regarding the actual crime that led to

the death of a beloved voice coach to the stars. Take a listen to our cut eight, our friends at NBC. The suspect in the homicide of a beloved Broadway singing coach that shocked the city turns herself in accompanied by her lawyer. 26-year-old Lauren Pazienza, seen here leaving a Manhattan precinct, is facing manslaughter and assault charges for the death of Barbara Gustern. An elderly female assaulted. According to the NYPD, Pazienza allegedly approached Gustern from behind and pushed the 87-year-old, causing her to fall and hit her head. An unprovoked senseless attack. 87-year-old, causing her to fall and hit her head. According to her grandson, she suffered

traumatic damage to the left side of her brain. And five days later, he posted this photo of himself holding his grandmother's hand in the hospital, writing she had passed away due to her injuries. The motive behind the assault is still unknown. Surveillance stills were widely circulated by authorities in the days before she surrendered to police. The Manhattan DA's office alleges they have evidence. Pazienza watched the ambulance arrive at the scene and shortly after deleted her social media. To Paul Zeit, joining me, former police commander in Albuquerque. Paul, you and I have seen a lot of killers, a lot of criminals. There are criminals that have had no education, that can't find a job, that have had horrible

childhoods where they were abused and mistreated, where their relatives are in jail. It's commonplace. Then there are defendants who are privileged, educated, college degrees, loving parents, silver spoon in their mouth. Under the law, Lady Justice doesn't care what your background is. But I have always inside held those privileged defendants in more contempt because they had it all. They know what they are doing is wrong, and they have the means to be successful, to be good people in this world, to make a living for themselves, not resort to crime. No reason to be mean or hateful. In fact, every reason to be good, Paul. It's extremely sad. I mean, anytime somebody turns to a life of crime or an incident like this, it's horrendous.

I mean, I think a couple of things here to look at is this really reminds me of arsonists who come back to the scene and watch the fire burn. You know, she hung around for 30 minutes. One could say, as it was argued, that they wanted to make sure or she wanted to make sure they got medical attention. I think there's another side to that, and that is they want to see the results of their work, what they did. And then they went on a standard flight. I mean, it'd be no different if somebody was wanted for murder. That's exactly what they would do.

Take the cell phone, put it in somebody else's house to throw the officers off the trail. They know they can track that cell phone as well as deleting her social media. Standard guilty mind type of response, flight. And in this case, like you said, well-to-do family. But I think that turned her into a spoiled rotten brat in an unfortunate manner. From so much privilege, if prosecutors and police are right, this young woman had it all and instead has murdered a beloved 87-year-old voice coach, a beautiful voice that is now forever silenced, at least in this world. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off.

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