Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Remains of 11-year-old Gannon Stauch found MILES away from his Colorado home.

Episode Date: March 23, 2020

The remains believed to be an 11-year-old boy missing from Colorado have been found in Florida. Gannon Stauch disappeared in January. His stepmother is facing multiple charges related to his death.Joining Nancy Grace today to discuss: Wendy Patrick- California prosecutor, author “Red Flags” www.wendypatrickphd.com  Cloyd Steiger - 36 years Seattle Police Department, 22 years Homicide detective, Author "Seattle's Forgotten Serial Killer-Gary Gene Grant" www.cloydsteiger.com Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author of "Blood Beneath My Feet" Caryn Stark - NYC Psychologist  Leigh Egan - Investigative Reporter CrimeOnline  Nicole Fierro - Reporter Fox 31 Denver  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Nancy Grace is coming to Fox Nation. I want justice. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Available now only on Fox Nation. The body of this little boy, his remains, a little 11-year-old child, Gannon Stock, have been found far, far from home in Florida. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. It was a road construction worker who found the remains Tuesday.

Investigators aren't releasing any details about how the boy died. They say he was killed in Colorado and then taken to Florida. I asked how finding a body can help with an investigation. Senior District Deputy District Attorney Michael Allen said there's generally evidence on a body. He wouldn't go into specifics about the case, but did say Gannon's family is taking things very hard. Obviously, they're distraught with this information. They were still holding out hope that Gannon would come home alive despite the original charges that we filed in this case. And they're struggling, and they rightfully would be considering the circumstance of this case.

It's tragic, and we, you know, like I said at the beginning, our hearts go out to them. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. You were just hearing our friend Lance Hernandez at ABC7 News Denver. But joining me right now, an A-list panel to break it down and put it back together again. Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author, redflags at wendypatrickphd.com. Cloyd Steiger, 36 years Seattle PD, 22 years homicide author, Seattle's forgotten serial killer.

You can find him, cloydsteiger.com. Professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Joseph Scott Morgan. Psychologist joining us from Manhattan, Karen Stark at KarenStark.com. CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, Lee Egan with inside information. But right now, to our special guest joining us from Fox 31 Denver, this is Nicole Fierro. Nicole, let me start with a very narrow question. Explain to me what you know about how this little boy's body was found. We have all been searching for Gannon and now the result, not what we had hoped for at all, not the outcome we had wished and prayed for.

This little boy's body has been found far from home. I understand a road construction worker found his body. Nicole, what happened? Absolutely. And as you said, not what anyone was wishing or thinking could even be possible at all. We covered search crews scouring all over Colorado for weeks and weeks on end. And then this week we hear Florida. You know, we did the math. We were calculating how far away it was from here, from Myrtle Beach where she was arrested.

It's just mind-blowing. And there is a gag order on this case. So they are not, they're very tight-lipped right now, releasing very little information. But I talked to my contacts over in Florida. I got their press release about what happened. And it said that a road construction crew was working in the area right near a bridge, a Scambia River bridge on Highway 90. And that's where they found what they believe is Gannon's body. Our friend Nicole Fierro joining us from Denver Fox 31 describing the intense search throughout Gannon's home state of Colorado straight out to Joseph Scott Morgan. It's so important when a body, and I can't even imagine finding a little child's body, but when a body is found, how you handle that crime scene.

Joe Scott, why so important? Because you only get one first time at it, Nancy. You have to be on target with everything that you do. It has to be planned. And, you know, I'm hoping that the authorities had an understanding that there was a search ongoing for a little boy, because it's not that often as a crime scene investigator that you find a small child like this. Well, hold on. Just doesn't happen let me remind you i told you this story once before i was on the tail of i believe a serial killer and another

jane doe turned up and i can't tell you everything we not i we were able to prove from one earring, one earring, where we found it, what it meant that it was there. When you recover a body, every single piece of evidence counts. And if you blunder through the, I would assume a tertiary crime scene, of course, Gannon wasn't murdered in Florida. Gannon had to be murdered somewhere else and transported to Florida, which begs the question, what random killer would go to all that effort? But if you miss one detail at a crime scene, even a tertiary crime scene, such as the disposal of the body scene, you may lose your case. It's just that simple.

So the recovery of this child's body is so, so important. We had begged. We had hoped. We had prayed. We had searched for another outcome in the disappearance of Gannon Stock. He went missing, this little boy, from Colorado Springs area, January 27, in a very murky, murky scenario. How did it all start? Take a listen to Katie Blaze at KOAA NBC5.

The community holding out hope that Gannon will be found. They've been tying up blue ribbons around the neighborhood, Gannon's favorite color, and distributing and posting flyers like this. Gannon has brown hair and brown eyes. He's 11 years old. He's 4'9 and weighs 90 pounds. And he was last seen wearing a blue jacket and jeans. Now, we spoke with Gannon's dad on Tuesday night,

and he told us his son was last seen between 3.15 and 4 on Monday afternoon and that he was going to a friend's house but didn't say which friend. The dad tells us when Gannon didn't return home a few hours later that's when police were called. Now a little after 10 on Tuesday the El Paso County Sheriff's Office showed up at Gannon's home. Law enforcement were at the home and appeared to be searching the backyard with some flashlights. Gannon's parents speaking about the search for their son just moments ago. I'm Landon Hyatt, Gannon's mom, and I encourage you guys, I know many of you mothers and fathers, I encourage you just to seek, find him. I'm so thankful for all the outpouring help. You know, I appreciate the flyers and I appreciate the ribbons

because it brings attention to a missing person case, especially a child. And without that attention, I mean, think of Elizabeth Smart. If her case had not been publicized and had so much attention, the heroes in that case would not have recognized her, just her eyes. She was being forced to wear burka at the time she was spotted. It was only through citizen heroes that her life was saved. But it's forensics that carry the day when you're actually trying to find a missing child. Take a listen to Jessica Barreto, KOAA.

Really just a huge outpour of support right now just to try and find Gannon and bring him back home. Now there are four to five groups of 40 to 50 volunteers out here, so the number is really into the two hundreds range right now. They're trying to cover as much area and as much ground as possible here in the Larson Ranch neighborhood. They're trying to go as far north along Mark Shuffle as they can. They're traveling east and west along Fontaine. Still no updates as to Gannon's whereabouts, but they are hoping that they find anything that can lead to his recovery and just finding him and finding out what happened to him. Now, I did speak to the event organizer out here.

She said she's instructing volunteers to look for any footprints, items of clothing, any sort of article of clothing or anything that may belong to him that just looks out of place. And again, just hoping to bring Gannon home. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. We will not be going into detail about the information in the investigation which ultimately resulted in the arrest of Letitia. But I can tell you that this has been a methodical and time-consuming multi-state operation with investigators working nearly around the clock to find Gannon.

There have been thousands of hours of investigation and search efforts. This includes large-scale searches, in addition to small, specific searches with drones, horses, canines, and other resources. While we have not yet found Gannon, information has been developed that is helping us narrow our search. As you can see from the arrest, sadly, we do not believe Gannon is alive. This is not what I wanted to report. You were just hearing Paso County Sheriff press conference.

That was Lieutenant Mitch Mihalko speaking. They were right. In the last hours, the body of this 11-year-old boy. I'm looking at his picture right now. He's got on a little plaid shirt like one my son wore for Easter about two years ago, smiling at the camera. And now we know that he is dead. His body has been found far, far from home in Florida, which begs the question, what random killer would take his body across the country to dispose of it none let me

just answer that for you right there for those of you just joining us thank you for being with us at this time of sorrow for gannon stalks family what happened how did his body end up that far away now what we have been told straight out to special guest joining us is Nicole Fierro, reporter, Fox 31 Denver. The timeline that we were working on, and that's one of your specialties, you've gone through, culled through evidence, reports, statements, rumors, gossip, the works to come up with a timeline I just heard the dad say earlier that around 3 15 to 4 o'clock was when he went to a friend's home and then never came back what Nicole what allegedly led up to that moment this is is a very narrow question. Why do we think that he went to

a friend's house and was never seen again? Nicole Fierro. That is what was reported to the police from Gannon's stepmother. The last person who was reported to see him was Gannon's stepmother, and she had said he had gone to a friend's at around between 3 and 4 o'clock, but we've seen a lot more since then. We've had neighbors come forward, checking their surveillance. We've had so much happen since then, but that is the original statement that we started with. To Lee Egan, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, it's my understanding that part of the timeline started when the stepmother, Letitia Stout, said that she kept him home from school that day because he had diarrhea. Yeah, that's absolutely correct. She said he was having stomach problems and having bouts between constipation and diarrhea, nauseated, possible vomiting.

And she thought he would need to see a doctor that day, which that didn't end up happening. But that was the reason. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Okay. Lee Egan, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. We've confirmed he was not in school that day, correct? Correct. Okay.

So tell me how you can reconcile what we learned from KKTV CBS 11's Spencer Wilson. Take a listen. I need Harley. I need Harley. Because they want you to verify I was getting at home after the hike. Because you didn't go to the hike, but you came home from work. Hmm? Do you want me to just say yes? No, just answer the question.

Yes, you came home from work and you couldn't verify Gannon was at home. Yeah. I told her she didn't have to be too in-depth because she is still, you know, a child. But I want to make sure that someone knows that there's another person to verify that Gannon. Sure. Does she need to hold this? No. Yes. So I came home later that

evening i was at work and i can verify that he was there that night so there there was a hike that you guys went on but then you guys came home yes where'd you guys go hiking garden of the gods okay back to you lee egan is it true that the stepmother letitia stock has called you just voluntarily and started giving you her story? Yes, no? Yes. Okay, what was that about a hike? When was the hike supposed to have happened? The hike happened on Sunday, the day before Gannon was reported missing. Okay, and I noticed when the reporter keeps going to the, I guess, step, well, not really stepsister, but the stepmother's daughter, Harley.

The stepmother keeps breaking in with the answers. Was I hearing that correctly, Lee? You heard absolutely correctly. That's exactly what she was doing. Okay, Lee Egan, what did the stepmother tell you? She told me that she left with Gannon at around 10 a.m. that morning. She said that, yes, he was feeling sick. That's why she brought a white paper bag along in case he had to throw up.

Along where? She was going on errands, like to a play-it-against-sports store, a bike store in Castle Rock, which I believe is about an hour away from her home, and just taking the back rolls, you know, just strolling around, having casual conversations with this child that's supposedly pooping in his pants, her words, nauseated, you know, just not feeling well. And for whatever reason, she did not, from her words, she did not take him to the doctor. Let me understand something. What was the white bag for?

In case he had to throw up. Okay. Well, what about the diarrhea? In case he had to throw up. Okay, well, what about the diarrhea? I don't know. She would not. I've never heard the use of a white bag for diarrhea. I mean, all right, but I guess that actually I started to say that's neither here nor there, but that's total BS. It's very important because Cloyd Steiger, 36 years Seattle PD, 22 years homicide, every word counts. And I would not be surprised at all if Ms. Lee Egan from CrimeOnline.com ends up in court.

Or giving a statement to police. Because when you keep your child home from school because they have diarrhea so badly they can't make it to the bathroom, but you take them on a wild goose chase from one used sports place, played against Sam, been there many times to another sports place, but you never go into the sports place. You never buy anything. I mean, and then you say your child has diarrhea so badly that you give your child a white paper bag to what? That matters. It does matter. And all those words, they're golden.

I mean, first of all, to say he had diarrhea and constipated going back and forth, I've never heard of that in my life. You either have one or the other, right? You don't have both. And then the over-speaking her daughter, when her daughter's answering questions, that's classic. She's trying to manipulate the conversation and she really did herself a disservice by calling lee and telling her all this stuff because a provable lie is just as good as a confession i want to go back to our special guest joining us of course guys you're all special but joining me is Nicole Fierro reporter Fox 31 Denver I want to go to cut six and that's

from KKTV CBS 11 Spencer Wilson you know Nicole Fierro Fox 31 Denver I found it really odd while everyone's out looking for her son she's whining about her mistreatment by the press. Did you notice that? I did and actually personally spoke to her about this. She released a very long statement to me to share on her behalf where she's talking about all the threats. And this was well after that interview she did so this was something that was brought up for weeks about how she has been treated and how she has been threatened and I would direct you to this statement it's very long and it goes into a lot of details that she wanted released she asked me to release but she talks about herself and the treatment she's

been getting a lot throughout this case. I'm going to need a shrink for that. But for right now, take a listen to Spencer Wilson at KKTV CBS 11. I'm just ready for Gannon to come home. Most importantly, for him to see his family. But second, I am going to be so ecstatic when I'm able to say to people that I hope they have a really sincere apology for all these theories that have came out online, for all the things they said that I have done or people have done. I just want everyone to know that we're going to find Gannon and I love him

so much. I've helped taking care of him for so long. Gannon is so kind and he loves to play video games. That's one of his favorite things. He loves Sonic and Mario. And, you know, he's always helpful. He was always so helpful with the dogs around the house. And we have two little cute dogs. And he was always like a person I could say, Gannon, can you go do this? And he would do it right away. You know, sometimes with kids,

we have to remind them and things like that. And that's okay. But he was so sweet and able to help anyone. He could notice when you're sick and say, are you okay? And such a kind heart. Okay, I'm going to avoid the obvious that she is talking about nothing but herself. But Karen Stark, New York psychologist, joining me at KarenStark.com,

she's now referring to the little boy, her stepson, in the past tense. He was so helpful. He was so helpful. He was so sweet. It reminds me of Scott Peterson when he says she, Lacey, his wife, she was amazing. Hello? Wait, wait. We don't even know whether she's dead or alive. Why are you talking about her in the past tense? I mean, Karen, do you remember when my dad passed away? I couldn't bring myself to say the word D-I-E or D-E-A-D. I still don't say it. And I think of him as if he's right here with me all the time. How is she?

Well, we hadn't even found Gannon, still already referring to him in the past tense and talking about how she wants an apology. That's a dead giveaway, Nancy. The minute, and I didn't mean that pun, but the minute that you hear somebody speaking that way about a person of interest that you're looking for and they keep saying he was, she was, you have to wonder.

Nobody wants to think that the person is dead. So as I was listening, just like like you i'm thinking to myself boy she's giving herself away and the fact that it's all about her her narcissism it can't come out you can't it can't stop itself from emerging how everyone's going to be sorry that they're acute we're're talking about him, not her. But she's making so much of it about her, what she's like, what she went through, how everybody will be regretting that they're blaming her. Hi, guys. Nancy Grace here. We have all worked so hard to bring to you Don't Be a Victim,

Fighting Back Against America's Crime Wave, a brand new book. After interviewing literally hundreds of crime victims and police, we put our knowledge into Don't be a victim. You can pre-order now. Go to CrimeOnline.com pre-order now and know that portions of our proceeds goes to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. My camera records 24-7. It never stops recording. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. that. So I, you know, you could see if someone got out of the truck or not. And plus it has sound. So a lot of people don't know that it has sound to hear her set her alarm. When she got out of the truck, she set her alarm and set the garage door down. So nobody got out of the truck. You are hearing the next door neighbor or the acrossstreet neighbor of little boy Gannon Stock. His name, Roderick, did not know the Stock family before Gannon goes missing. When he realized that he saw Gannon on a security camera, he went to the family to show him.

They call the FBI. The FBI comes and takes about 70 videos from the Saturday before Ginnigo's missing until the next week. Now, these cameras are not motion activated. They constantly record. And you hear Roderick speaking to CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter Dave Mack. Dave managed to get Roderick Drayton on the phone to explain what he saw. Okay, Lee Egan, what is Roderick Drayton saying? Break it down for me. Roderick is saying his camera, he's about a couple houses down,

but his camera can pick up everything going on at the Stout driveway. At around 10.20 a.m. on January 27th, Leticia Stout Gannon walked to a red pickup truck. He's holding what looks like an electronic in his hand at that time. He drops it. She reaches down, picks it up, puts it in the truck, gets him in the truck, and drives away with him. About 2.20, between 2.15, 2.20 p.m. that afternoon, Roderick says his security picks up Letitia Stout coming back to the home in the red pickup truck. She gets out alone. Gannon is not with her. Okay, I'm trying to make sense of what you're saying, and you said it perfectly, Lee Egan, but I mean in the sense that what does this mean to the

investigation? Is there any way to reconcile what the neighbor has caught on video? He didn't mean to, but he caught on video the stepmother leaving with Gannon and coming back without Gannon is there any way to reconcile that with the stepmother's statement that he went to a friend's house and then never came back and how can we reconcile that with what she tells Lee Egan on the phone that he was so sick before that he couldn't even go to school. To Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags at WendyPatrickPhD.com, explain the significance of this video that the neighbor inadvertently took that has now been seized by the FBI. The significance is it contradicts the suspect's statement. This is enormous evidence, and this is the kind of evidence that, thankfully,

we have all over the country with ring cameras, with home surveillance. We are literally living on video in this day and age. And when you have video that completely contradicts what somebody is trying to explain happened, that is going to be of enormous significance to a jury. But even more than that, when you have a video like this, you're going to look at the dynamic between the people on the video. Did it seem like she was rushed, upset? Did he look like he was feeling sick? Was he walking slowly? How did she appear when she came back? Was she happy? Was she relieved? Did she look stressed out? All these types of things are possible now.

And what you do is you take what you see and you compare them with what somebody says. And that distinction is either consistent or it's contradictory. That's going to be of enormous significance to this case. Well, what you just said reminds me of a very important factor. And And as Cloyd Steiger and Joseph Scott Morgan have pointed out, no detail is too small. Now, our investigative reporter, Dave Mack, manages to get the neighbor, Roderick Drayton, to speak to him. I want you to take a listen to what the neighbor tells Dave Mack. It makes a lot of sense that Sunday when they went to the Garden of God, I watched them on my video outside playing. tells Dave Mack. He came back, he got out of the truck, he got out of the car, and he ran into the house. So he was trying Sunday. So that Monday, when I was just looking through, I saw him walking, and he just didn't look the same as he did Sunday. So I was like, something isn't right. He doesn't look the same.

He looked, you know, I said he looked drugged, or he just didn't look like the same vibrant kid he did Sunday evening when he was, when they got back from the Garden of God. Because I've seen him get in the truck before, you know, just seeing him getting his dad's truck and him driving off. He just hopped right in the truck and closed the door. And that day, he just didn't seem right. He just seemed like something was bothering him or hurting him. He just didn't seem the same kid from Sunday. So according to the neighbor, you've got to take into account, the defense will bring this up, I'm sure, that the neighbor didn't know the Stock family,

but he was comparing the little boy playing and jumping around and having fun to the way he saw them on the last day he was seen alive. Something was wrong that he looked like he was drugged. You know, to Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator, you know, when you look at somebody, you go, they're stoned. Nobody has to tell you the person's stoned. They look stoned. I can't really describe it. There's a blank stare in their face. I just, I can't describe it. Or when somebody's high on crack, you, I mean, all the years I prosecuted, I knew when somebody's high on crack. I mean, it's very obvious when somebody's high on methamphetamine, it's wow. You can look at

somebody and tell if they have been on meth for a long time. Their appearance gives it away. I can't describe it, Joe Scott, but I know it to be true. This neighbor says the little boy looked like he was drugged. What does that tell you, Joe Scott? Well, it tells me that he's observing this child and he's paid so much attention, he can see that the behavior has changed, Nancy. And this behavior that this child is exhibiting is not compatible with his norm of the child. The child is probably normally vibrant. He sees the child moving about. But for some reason, the child looks disoriented. He's just not his self. And so, yeah, it stands out. It stands out to us in the field, doesn't it? You know, when we, like you mentioned, when

we're questioning people, but, you know, in everyday terms, and you don't expect a child to behaving this way. If you're out and you're interviewing people on the street, they're involved in a negative lifestyle. It's not so surprising, but for a child out in the yard, yeah, it's shocking. And it's something you would remember. For those of you just joining us, thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories. Part of being a prosecutor, an investigator, a reporter, a shrink, a forensic shrink, is taking the blow when a case doesn't turn out the way you hoped. That is what has happened in our search for this little boy, Gannon Stock.

Take a listen now to Denver Fox 31. For those of you just joining us, this is our friend, Nicole Fierro. Deputies in Florida reported that a construction crew found a juvenile's remains while working near the Escambia River Bridge in Santa Rosa County, Florida. Calculating the distance from Gannon and Letitia Stalk's home, that's nearly 1,400 miles, a 20-plus hour drive. Something leads them to believe the body was in this area of Florida on February 3rd through the 5th. She wasn't arrested until March 2nd in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.

That's nearly 700 miles from this Florida location where Gannon was tentatively found. That's a 10-hour drive or a three-hour flight. Between February 3rd and her arrest March 2nd, she spoke one-on-one with me. She never did say where she was, but called several times and sent a number of emails from February 11th to the last one on February 24th. Leticia Stout tells me she feels the need to fill in some gaps in the investigation. On the 12th, we released this statement she sent me, talking about Gannon's disappearance and the impact it yet again had on her.

Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Ever since news broke that Gannon's body was found in Florida, we've been inundated with inquiries from the press and the public. This will address only what has taken place as a result of that development in this case. As I've said in the past, we will not try this case in the media. Today, I filed new formal charges in the case against Leticia Stout. Those charges are murder in the first degree after deliberation, a class one felony that carries a potential prison sentence of life in prison without parole. In addition to that, I filed eight counts

of crime of violence for the alleged use of a firearm, a blunt instrument, a knife or other sharp object, and for causing the death of Gannon Stout. These new charges are added to the original four charges that we originally filed in this case. You are hearing our friend, the District Attorney in El Paso, the senior DA, Michael Allen. Formal charges now handed down against Letitia Stout, first-degree murder, potential life without parole, eight other charges for firearm, blunt instrument, knife, and the death of little Gannon.

Joining me right now, let's go out to Denver, Nicole Fierro, reporter, Fox 31. Do we know the cause of death, the COD? I mean, I'm guessing it's got to do with a firearm, a blunt object, or a knife. What are you hearing, Nicole? Well, since there is a gag order in this case, we are hearing very little right now. I will tell you that. But we did hear through that press conference that he believes that Gannon was killed in Colorado. Otherwise, they couldn't have put any charges there. They upped charges. They added eight charges of crimes of violence. That would be including a firearm, a sharp object or a blunt object to kill Gannon.

And they also added the after-deliberation murder charge. So they won't say why at all. They say they don't want to put this through on the press. They don't want to because it's such a sensitive case right now. Everything matters when you're forming the case. They're still asking people for more information. But we do know these charges are huge, and they're added to an additional four charges that we started with. For those of you just joining us, the remains of 11-year-old Gannon Stalk from Colorado have been found near a bridge, Scambia River Bridge, Interstate 90 near Pace, Florida.

The little boy was found by a Florida Department of Transportation construction crew. Pace is about 15 miles north of Pensacola there on the Florida Panhandle. The family, his father, mother, and little sister are distraught. They had held out hope for another ending. Right now, the stepmother, Letitia Stock, in custody. Straight out to Justice Scott Morgan, Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University. What do the charges tell you? Well, Nancy, I got to tell you, since I started reading these charges, I've really been scratching

my head over this. What it tells me is that, first off, either this child has multiple injuries that could have been generated by a sharp object, a blunt object, or a firearm, or his body was in such a condition, I hate to say this, that they couldn't make a specific determination or they're not willing to release that information. My thought is, and this is one other thing I was thinking, was Gannon tortured? I think is one of the things that I'm thinking as well was he subjected to a beating in life a cutting and then he was shot and it's going to be very important because where the timeline is concerned did injuries, some of the injuries that he incurred, did they occur before death, like in a torture scenario? Or did some of these things occur post-mortem after death when he was thrown into this estuary that literally flows into the Gulf of Mexico?

So it's mult-layered. Just as the reporter had mentioned, this is a very, very complicated case. You're dealing with multiple jurisdictions. Yeah. As we all know, all you legal eagles, a murder can be prosecuted either where the person is killed. As Nicole Fierro from Fox 31 Denver accurately pointed out, the charges have been brought in Colorado, which tells me, as she also pointed out, that they believe the murder occurred on this little boy in Colorado, or charges can be filed where the body is discovered, which would have been in Florida. Colorado has taken the lead, and that tells me a lot. Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author, Red Flags. What do the charges themselves tell you?

Yeah, the charges themselves tell me that they have a lot more evidence than they're sharing with the public, which justifiably is appropriate in a case like this where they're still investigating. And obviously they don't want to compromise the integrity of that investigation. But when you listen to all of the different types of, let's call them weapons, you've got guns, knives, sharp objects, it makes you wonder the duration of the unfortunate, I don't even know what you want to call it, that led to the death, whether it was a beating, whether it was some sort of a prolonged type of an incident that eventually led to death. It all also leads to why move the body? You know, one of the things that's going to be a

good tie-in is to the folks that found that body, what did they notice first? And how then do we tie that into the charges in terms of what happened where? That's going to be important. And we can only keep it, you know, sort of behind the scenes for so long, because as soon as this gets into a courtroom, we will have the benefit of having all these answers, all these questions answered in terms of what exactly happened. Chloe Steiger, 36 years Seattle PD, 22 years homicide author, Seattle's forgotten serial killer. Gary Jean Grant, Chloe, the charges tell me so much. What about it? Yeah, I agree with Joe. It must it must show the uh the the time difference and the injuries leading up to the fatal injury i have a feeling they probably may have found

the spot it happened forensically to be so sure that it happened in colorado uh or they have some other information it's just uh this is exactly you you know, a very complex case, as Wendy said. So they just have to play it close. What about it, Karen Stark? Yeah, I definitely agree with what everybody is saying. And the fact that they are talking about not Florida, but Colorado, makes you wonder, you know, about the whole story that this woman came up with the stepmother well I mean it's all clearly a lie because even her her yeah her own statements are inconsistent but here's my question Lee Egan crimeonline.com investigative reporter where did the murder occur if you look at the if you look at the charges you've got a gun you've

got a knife you got a blunt object mentioned in the formal charges. That's not just grabbed out of thin air. They're basing that on what they have learned from the body. So where does a crime like that occur? Where's the blood evidence? Lee Egan, you may have the answer. Didn't the stepmother, Letitia Stalk, tell you some cockamamie story about taking the, quote, back roads? And she left her cell phone behind on this long journey to go buy a bike, which she never even went in a bike store. She had Gannon with her, but she forgot to take off her Apple Watch.

You want to find the crime scene? Track that Apple Watch. Tell me what she told you. Yes, Nancy. She said that there had been some kind of wreck that morning on the 27th. So she decided to take back roads to get, I'm not sure which play-again sports she went to, but she did say she went to a play-again sports, but ultimately ended up in Castle Rock, where she planned to buy a bicycle for her husband. The bicycle was never purchased, but that was why she said it took so long that day to get back, because this was some kind of special bike that she had been searching around for online.

She said she looked on Craigslist and other places, and this particular place in castle rock had this special bicycle when she ended up not buying did she even go in the store lee i don't think so i don't think so so right there number one get her computer records cell phone records tablet records to find out if she ever did those bike searches and get the surveillance video from Play It Again Sam's and the bike store in Castle Rock. She claimed she was going to track that Apple Watch all the way through her trek. She intentionally left her cell phone at home so she would not be tracked. That tells me she was either planning to kill him that day in that trip or dispose of his body somehow but she didn't the body was disposed of in Florida track the apple watch people if you want to find a crime scene to Nicole Fierro reporter Fox 31

Denver what happens next I know she's already attacked this is the stepmother has already attacked a deputy on the way to the Colorado courtroom to face murder charges. The deputy had to go to the hospital. So tell me what happens now. What's next, Nicole? Well, now we have another court appearance in April, I believe it's April 14th. And with the whole coronavirus outbreak, we asked, is this going to have an impact? And the DA says at this point point he does not believe so. It's going to continue. And we're waiting for that day in court.

Right now all of the documents are sealed. Our station and a number of others have tried to fight that. We put in appeals to try to get the arrest affidavit, to get anything for the public's knowledge. We are still waiting to hear back on that. But I do want to point out something very interesting. You know, we were talking about that video earlier with the neighbor. In the statement to me, she addresses it and she basically shares what could be an excuse to why

we don't see him. She says that he had a side gate key to the side door. She says that, what else did she say? She said Saturday night he cut his foot. She said that there's plenty of proof on her phone that she had taken a selfie in the truck, that if anyone had any skills that they could look through the video and show he got out on the other side. Now, we asked the sheriff's office about this, and they would not give us any information on that. We wait as justice unfolds. And I guarantee you, I know one person, Nicole Fierro, Fox 31 Denver, who will be in that Colorado Springs courtroom April 14, as will we.

Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.