Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - REMAINS OF TOT ELIJAH VUE, 3, FOUND BY DEER HUNTER AFTER MOMMY SENDS HIM TO TORTURE CAMP WITH LOVER

Episode Date: September 16, 2024

The search is over. Human remains found by a hunter have been identified as Elijah Vue. Two Rivers Police Chief Ben Miennert described the discovery of the 3-year-old’s body, saying, "The remains were found on private property by someone preparing his land for hunting season. The area was thickly wooded, with heavy underbrush, just north of Manitou. This location is just over three miles northwest of where he was originally reported missing." He added that the area had been searched multiple times by law enforcement, private searchers, the landowner, aerial teams, and various search and rescue teams. The remains were found just three miles from where the boy disappeared, near a home where his mother, Katrina Baur, used to live. Joining Nancy Grace Today: Darryl Cohen – Former Assistant District Attorney (Fulton County, Georgia) Former Assistant State Attorney (Florida), and Defense Attorney: Cohen, Cooper, Estep, & Allen, LLC; Facebook: “Darryl B Cohen;” X: @DarrylBCohen Caryn L. Stark – Psychologist, Renowned TV and Radio Trauma Expert and Consultant; Instagram: carynpsych/FB: Caryn Stark Private Practice   Bill Daly – Former FBI Investigator and Forensic Photography, Security Expert Dr. Erin H. Kimmerle, Ph.D. – Forensic Anthropologist, Director of the FL Institute for Forensic Anthropology and Applied Science at the University of South Florida;  Author: “Skeletal Trauma: Identification of Skeletal Injuries Resulting from Human Rights Abuse and Armed Conflict;” Instagram: @erin.kimmerle Brittany Schmidt - Reporter/Anchor Action 2 News - WBAY-TV in Wisconsin; FB: Brittany Schmidt WBAY/X: Britschmidtnews     See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The remains of a little top boy, three-year-old Elijah View. A deer hunter stumbled upon this little boy's remains. This, after we know for a fact that mommy sends little Elijah, just three, to basically a torture camp with her convicted felon lover, where he vows to quote, make the boy respect me and turn him into a man. Well, now he's dead. Imagine a taut boy, three years old. What is he, this tall?

His little skeletonized remains found by deer hunters. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Katrina Bauer drops off her three-year-old son at boyfriend Jesse Vang's home. So the convicted felon can teach the three-year-old tot how to be a man. Where is Elijah? How to be a man.

Joining me in All-Star panel to make sense of what we know right now. But first, I want you to hear what Two Rivers Police Chief Ben Minert has to say. Last Saturday, Sheriff Hartwig called me immediately upon learning his deputies were responding to investigate a report of skeletal remains found by someone in a town of two rivers. With night falling near, the entire area was secured while a variety of resources were gathered to investigate. Ultimately, a forensic anthropologist with the Wisconsin State Crime Laboratories was able to confirm a skull and bones as human remains. And joining us, a renowned forensic anthropologist and director of the Florida Institute for Forensic Anthropology and Applied Science.

But before I go to our esteemed guest, Dr. Aaron Kimmerle, straight out to news anchor, investigative reporter, WBAY-TV, Brittany Schmidt joining us. Tell me about how the deer hunters found this little boy's remains and were Elijah's remains skeletonized? Yeah, according to the police, he was skeletal remains. We are waiting for authorities to give us a little bit more information about that. It does make sense that he was found by a hunter. We do have a hunting season coming up. So the hunter was out looking over its property. This is a very densely covered area. We know that authorities have searched this area plenty of times before. As the seasons change, things come up. They even talk to farmers about tilling their

land. So it made sense that it was found by a hunter. It's just so difficult for me to, I guess, understand or connect the photos of this beautiful three-year-old little boy, Elijah View, to telling farmers to see what, quote, comes up when they till their land. Now, that's the blanket he was last seen with the red, black and white plaid blanket. Mommy sending Elijah, her little boy, to go be with her convicted felon boyfriend to quote teach him respect let me go straight out to dr. Aaron Kimberly but first listen to this the remains were found on private property by a person getting his land ready for the hunting season a thick wooded area with heavy underbrush just to the north of Manitou this location is just over three miles northwest of where he originally was reported missing. This area had been searched several times,

as had been reported, by law enforcement searches, by private searches, by the landowner, by air, and with various search and rescue teams. Which raises the specter, was Elijah View's body, his remains there, the entire time and searchers missed him, or was his body moved after the area had been searched and planted there? We don't know, but one thing I do know is I've got an expert, a renowned forensic anthropologist, director of the Florida Institute for Forensic Anthropology and Applied Science at University of South Florida and author of Skeletal Trauma, Identification of Skeletal Injuries Resulting from Human Rights Abuse and Armed Conflict. You can find her at ErinKimmerly.com. Dr. Kimmerly, thank you for being with us.

Explain to me why at the get-go, these remains could not be positively identified as being three-year-old top boy Elijah View. So what did the anthropologists have to go through to make that identification? Well, initially, they're going to collect all of the remains. It's really important that the scene is excavated properly. And I was happy to hear in the police chief's report, it sounded like they slowed everything down when he was first found, brought in the right experts.

Because that context is going to give you so much information about the manner of death. And in a difficult case like this, that's going to be really important. So the anthropologists will ultimately excavate, even though their remains are on the surface, it's a term we use because you think about the changing seasons. There's leaf litter, there's vegetation growing up through them. I'm not surprised that they were missed initially through some of the early searches. That's very common. At the point at which they found him basically to search you have to be down on your hands and knees with the trowel

going through the underbrush and so that's that's sadly what happens in those cases. Dr. Erin Kimberley, several questions. Number one, why are you not surprised that his body, his remains were missed during the earlier searches of this very heavily wooded area? Well, you think about when he first went missing in February. I don't know what the snowfall was for Wisconsin last spring, but it's quite likely that his body was first covered with snow. And then once spring, you know, emerges and all of that underbrush blooms, they would likely become pretty hidden in that brush. And so unless you're, you know, down on the ground with a trowel,

the search is really incomplete. You think about when a child or anyone goes missing, those early searches, you're looking for the person alive, wandering off. You're looking for a whole body. And so by summer, you would have had very small skeletal remains, basically camouflaged, you know, now the color of the soil and the brush around it. To Karen Stark, a renowned psychologist, TV radio trauma expert at karenstark.com. Karen, thank you for being with us. I'm really, as I said, having a hard time reconciling these photos of three-year-old top boy Elijah View with what Brittany Schmidt from WBAY and Dr. Erin Kimmerly are saying, did you hear Kimmerly just state that after, you know, many weeks that the remains would take on the appearance of the brush, the overgrowth? The little boy just vanished into the leaves and the debris.

It just, it's just hard for me. I mean, Karen, you were with me raising the children. Um, and you remember them at age three. I mean, they're this big, they're completely defenseless and thinking about this child's remains blending in with the foliage. I'm just having a really hard time reconciling that all those words would be in the same sentence, Karen Stark. And think about it, Nancy, you're talking about a three-year-old and they're saying that she sent him to her boyfriend, lover, whoever he was, because she wanted him to be a man. A three-year-old should be a man. And that's the kind of unrealistic expectations you find in parents who are neglectful. We don't know the full story.

Unrealistic. Something is very wrong. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Unrealistic. What? Unrealistic to expect a 36-month-old be quote a man what kind of man can i see the convict lover let me see him so this is the guy that mommy sends her child okay him he's got a rap sheet as long as i-75 and she sends her tiny tot to him i mean what and nancy he's blaming her i'm actually without words karen stark he's blaming

her he's saying that it's her fault because she wanted him to be the one to teach this boy to be a man and respect him and discipline him. And this little boy was essentially tortured. And mommy, in her maternal wisdom, sends her child, her little baby boy, alone with this guy who, I might add, has not been charged with murder. Average snowfall, Feb, 11 inches in two rivers. Listen to more of what Police Chief Minert says. The remains found by the hunter and recovered by law enforcement were taken to the Wisconsin Crime Lab for DNA testing to identify the person. It is with a heavy heart that I announce to you today,

those remains were identified as Elijah Vu. With that news and following this briefing, the Amber Alert will be canceled. To Dr. Erin Kimmerle, again, joining us, forensic anthropologist. Dr. Kimmerle, by this point, let's see, there are, I believe, 206 bones in the human body. And you said the area had to be excavated very carefully. We also heard from a police chief, Ben Minert, that the remains, by the time law enforcement got there to this remote area, it was nighttime. So the area had to be roped off and protected. And a night search ensued. Those are really hard. I remember watching the night search for Kelly Anthony's remains, Kelly, almost three, in a swampy area about 10 houses away from

top mom Casey Anthony's home, and there were tents, there were bright lights, like you'd see at maybe a movie premiere shining everywhere, because you want to get every one of those 206 bones. Why is that so critical? And what do you mean by quote excavation, your word? So, and it's important to remember when we talk about the skeleton there's 206 bones in the adult body children uh have many more because their bones are growing and fused together they fuse together throughout childhood so a little guy who's about you know three to four years old is going to have over 300 bones in his body um but what is really critical for what I use this word excavation is to basically what they're going to do is remove all of the top soil, the leaf litter, the vegetation and try to keep all of those little bones, all the remains intact and any other evidence that might be there. If there's clothing, you well wait whatever hold on i'm interpreting what you're

saying to mean they move away the searchers move away the topsoil and the leaves and the foliage but they keep it in case there's a tiny little bone in there of some sort they do they'll sift through it by using screens we use two different size screens, we sift it twice. You mean like a flower sifter? Yeah, exactly, only larger. And you put all of the soil, topsoil and debris in there. It's a very effective method. You can find strands of hair, for example.

So you think about being outside wooded area and you're finding things like strands of hair, that's good recovery. But they wanna preserve that context. Dr. Kimberley, you're really amazing. I'm trying to drink in every word you're saying, but you seem a little too happy for me when you're describing this process, because I know you're looking at it like a forensic anthropologist. Right. I guess the way I feel when I get that one shred of evidence that makes a case and like

a mass murder, I'm happy. But right now, as you're talking, our New York control room is showing photos of Elijah view. And I'm having a hard time taking in what you're saying as we're talking about a little top three years old. I just remember I could pick the twins up like this and carry them both around, run around and around and around our apartment when they were three, especially Lucy. He was born at two pounds, but he's just a tiny little slip of a boy. And I wonder what he endured before they're searching for his bones through a flower sifter. What did you call it? It's, it's, we use a sifter. It's not a flower sifter, but it's a it's an archaeological sifter.

So it has mesh basically. And then in different sizes, about a quarter of an inch. And that allows all all important evidence that's going to ultimately be able to prove, you know, that he was hurt, that he was murdered and be able to get those charges. That's why right now I'm sure they're focused on finding that cause of death and being able to interpret the scene in order to get the manner of death so that they can turn it from a death investigation into a full homicide investigation with charges. What started out as a search for a missing boy is now a death investigation. Now that we know the location of where Elijah was located off Christy Bob Lane in Manitou Drive, we ask that anybody with any information,

if you haven't previously provided it or you think it may be useful in this investigation, to please contact law enforcement. Photos of little Elijah taken at mom's boyfriend's house shows him blindfolded and bruised on a bed and standing in a corner for hours in a soiled diaper. Jesse Vang claims this is part of his discipline plan. A deer hunter stumbles upon human skeletal remains on private property near the Manitowoc Scout Camp in the town of Two Rivers and immediately calls law enforcement. The town of Two Rivers in Manitowoc County law enforcement has been searching for now four-year-old Elijah Vu since he went missing last February

while in the care of his mother's boyfriend. In the care of his mother's boyfriend? That hardly makes sense. Straight back out to Brittany Schmidt, investigative reporter and anchor WBAY-TV. Brittany, again, thank you for being with us. What can you tell me? And I'd like to point out

that the convicted felon lover of mommy, neither he or mommy have been charged with murder. Brittany Schmidt, could you please inform our viewers? Okay, everybody sit down because this is not easy to hear about the lover's discipline plan for baby Elijah? Yeah, according to the criminal complaint, as you mentioned, these are difficult to hear. He's three years old when he's sent there to be a man. It talks about how he's been trying to change his bad behavior. Some of those tactics used were standing in a corner for one to three hours by himself, either praying or saying the words, I'm sorry, Mommy.

There were times where he was threatened if he wasn't doing that, where he'd drink cold water. Those are the things that this little three-year-old endured when he was being taught to be a man. He was forced to say, I'm sorry, mommy. I'm sorry, mommy. I'm sorry, mommy. I'm sorry, mommy.

Over and over and over. And what does it mean, Karen Stark, our renowned psychologist joining us out of Manhattan, that the lover, the convicted felon lover, would actually take pictures of baby Elijah covered in bruises with a blindfold on, taking pictures of it? He was proud of what he was doing, Nancy. He didn't think that there was anything wrong. He was saying that this little boy needed to respect him. And he felt like he shouldn't just fear him, but he should respect him. Who knows where he got that kind of boot camp mentality. We're talking about a three-year-old. I have no doubt that this was not a problem child.

They just had this idea that there was something that they needed to do to him. And that's not unusual for abuse with little children, that they believe they have these expectations that have nothing to do with the behavior, actual behavior of the little boy. I don't think it had anything to do with parental expectations because, you know, I certainly don't know everything about parenting. and expert in forensic photography, security expert Bill Daley. I just wanted them to take their bottle and to eat a jar of Gerber's baby food and to, you know, take their naps and learn to crawl and, you know, follow my finger. And that's what I wanted them to do when they were little babies. I don't know that this has anything to do when they were little babies. I don't know that this has anything to do with parental expectations.

Bill Daley, you've seen it all, as have I. And I was looking at the original criminal complaint on these two POS is technical legal term. Now, this is a complaint bill as it relates to child negligence. Now, the convicted felon lover, mommy's lover with the tattoos up to here, not judging, don't care. State said he took a nap in the middle of the disciplinary regime and he woke up and Elijah was gone. OK, he's three. He's covered in bruises and he's, quote, gone. How many times, Bill Daley? I mean, can't they even come up with a new story just to surprise us?

I went to sleep, and he was gone. That's second verse, same as the first, Bill Daly. Yeah, you know, Nancy, the heart-wrenching aspect of this is this, as you just went through, this litany of really torturous things this little child went through. And then to have him found, you know, in a wooded area in skeletal remains. You know, just a little bit further about that from an investigative standpoint, there are a couple of things that kind of jump out at me. One is that assuming that his remains were there to begin with right after he perished or assuming that he perished before he was left there, is that they are going to have to expand that search site even beyond the immediate area where the remains were found. Just because it is a wooded area where outside and there are wild animals, there are other things that could disturb even those remains so they're going to have to expand that site just to see if there are any additional bones or clothing or anything else that may be available the other thing on the

investigative side and i'm sure police have already started had looked at it originally probably you know cell phone tower pings etc, this gives them a very much more specific location to look for in and around the time of the child's, quote, disappearance. And I think that will probably help, in fact, if there are any cell phone pings. We've seen that, as we know, in other cases with the Gilgo Beach murderer that we've spoken about before. You know, those type of records, in retrospect, knowing a little bit more can be very helpful. Nonetheless, information that people may have in and around the vicinity, I'm assuming that. Bill, you already have hit the nail on the head.

Let me just say again for the record, nobody's charged with murder. Okay, Daryl Cohen, you're the renowned defense attorney. These two idiots, dare I go that far, actually state this in texts. Because in this criminal complaint, they're quoting what these two are saying to each other. And now the boy's body is found. Look, I'm not a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist, but I can figure this out. Two and two still equals four, Cohen. This wasn't child neglect.

Not at all. This was child abuse. This wasn't an accident where this child was outside and shouldn't have been. This was, I'm sorry, mommy. I'm sorry, mommy. All of this was done intentionally. Whether or not they meant to kill him at that point, it doesn't matter. It does matter what type of evidence we'll have and the state will have to show exactly what they did,

which is not even one thing that any decent parent would ever do, ever. Just days before Katrina Bowers planning to pick up her three-year-old son, boyfriend Jesse Vang reports him missing. Vang claims he took a nap and woke up to find the toddler gone. Since 11 a.m. February 20th, when Jesse Vang called 911 and said Elijah Vu was missing, searches for the now four-year-old child have taken in wetlands, farmland, the West Twin River, and a farm waste container. A month into the search for Elijah, his red and white plaid blanket

was found about 3.7 miles from the home of Jesse Vang. The blanket was about three miles south of where the skeletal remains were found. To Brittany Schmidt joining us, investigative reporter and anchor WBAY-TV. Brittany, thank you for being with us. Have you read this criminal complaint? It is disgusting. In paragraph 10, and this is written by the detectives, of course, police comb through Katrina Bauer and Jesse Vang's cell phones, completely contradicting everything they were saying.

But they're talking about a visit of mommy to convicted felon lover so she could come over for sex. And the boyfriend tells her, well, you can't see Elijah. We'll, we'll lock him in the closet. We'll, excuse me, we'll put him in the bathroom while we have sex. She doesn't even want to see Elijah. Did you see that, Brittany? Yep. So, yep. I read the complete criminal complaint talking about what they were going to do and where Elijah should go while they were doing it. There was another part of the complaint where she actually left her six-year-old daughter in the car for about an hour to go inside to his apartment to basically do the same thing. And when she was left in the car alone for about an hour, it was at nighttime. It was like 34 degrees here in

Wisconsin, which is just above freezing. So a very cold night for a six-year-old to be left in a car for an hour, again, to do the same thing that she went there that night to do with Jesse Bang. Around 3.13 a.m., according to the criminal complaint, a photo shows Elijah lying on a bed with a blindfold over his eyes, bruising on his jaw and neck, bruising on his upper left arm. Mommy confirms she took the picture and then deleted it. Her phone leaves Two Rivers, leaving her boy there, 4.30 a.m. The record low was 27 degrees, the high 36. Other photos that we find in Facebook Messenger shows little Elijah standing in the corner wearing only a diaper, his hands in a praying position. The diaper is full and it's taken at Jesse Vang's apartment.

Bill Daley, does it ever end with people like mommy and her convicted felon lover? Now Elijah is dead. And yes, let me say again, for legal reasons, they're not charged with his death. What about it, Bill? For them to claim that a three-year-old disappeared out of nowhere, found his way out of a home through a neighborhood and ultimately found his way to three miles away into a wooded area, if that's the suggestion, it certainly doesn't seem to make sense to me from an investigative standpoint. I think a lot of other things that would need to be looked at. We talked before about the forensics, about the digital forensics and that footprint. Unfortunately, so much time has

passed with regard to gathering soil samples from vehicles and shoes, et cetera, that unfortunately that ship may have sailed. But still, I think there's a number of investigative steps they can take and hopefully kind of button up this case and bring it to justice. Okay. What about it, Daryl Cohen? Nancy, there are no words, no words at all to explain what has gone on in this poor child's life. A child being made to be worse than he could, his life was worse than ever anyone could imagine. Why in the world they would want him to be a, quote, man is beyond belief, but acting like a little boy, what little boys do, they do wonderful things and they're exasperating and you love it. But what he went through is just a microcosm of what these two people, once they are charged, will be dealing with in the legal system. And you and I both know if someone hurts a child and they're incarcerated, it's not going to be good for them regardless of what happens in the courtroom.

Last Saturday, Sheriff Hartwig called me immediately upon learning his deputies were responding to investigate a report of skeletal remains found by someone in the town of Two Rivers. With night falling near, the entire area was secured while a variety of resources were gathered to investigate. Ultimately, a forensic anthropologist with the Wisconsin State Crime Laboratories was able to confirm a skull and bones as human remains. As authorities investigate the disappearance of Elijah View, mom Kat Bauer and boyfriend Jesse Vang are arrested, charged with child neglect.

In the last days, the remains of little three-year-old Elijah View found in a densely wooded area. With me in all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now, we've been talking about the criminal complaint that led to mommy and her convicted felon lovers arrest on child neglect. To Dr. Erin Kimmerly joining us, forensic anthropologist and director of Florida Institute Forensic Anthropology. Dr. Kimmerly, I want to talk to you about COD, cause of death. You were describing earlier that there will be an elaborate excavation process to try and get all of the over 300 bones that are in a child's body, a child of three years old. What can you tell us about potential discovery of cause of death? Well, it's going to be critical in this case in order to explain what actually happened to him. They will go through each of those little bones, each of those little remains meticulously, clean them, x-ray,

look at them, look at them with microscopes and try to assess if there are any injuries. And there's two important things that they'll be looking for. One, of course, is that injuries that occurred at the time of death that would explain the cause of death. And then there would be looking for any signs of abuse, neglect, malnutrition, prior injuries, maybe in different stages of healing that will show a pattern of abuse. And you see that a lot in children like this. That could be in the month preceding his death, or it could be over the three years of his life. And so all of that, you know, helps to show that pattern of what he went through. Listen to Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on America's number one podcast network, iHeart.

Open your free iHeart app and search Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Here's a concern for the prosecution, Daryl Cohen. Daryl Cohen, now high-profile defense attorney, but former felony prosecutor in inner city Atlanta. Daryl, here's the thing. This is why we need Dr. Erin Kiermaulie so much. The defense is going to claim because they're hemmed in, they're trapped by the two defendants' previous statements. They can't go anywhere except to say, oh, I went to sleep and I woke up and he was gone. Without a COD, that could effectively be argued to a jury. Yes, I was mistreating him. Yes, I'm neglectful, but I really did go to sleep and he wandered out. That could actually succeed if we can't get a COD because it could be argued he just wandered

out and died in the elements. Nancy, that's true. That could happen, but they will both, assuming that's the case, assuming a jury says not guilty, they will not say not guilty on child abuse. They will not say not guilty on all of the surrounding charges. So sometimes you get mad, but then you really have to get even. Think Al Capone, who was the worst human being in the world during his time. And what did they get him on? Murder? Nah, tax evasion. But it served its purpose. Okay, Darrell, no offense, because you were a great prosecutor and a great defense attorney. But could you please stop the gibberish, okay, telling me that let's wait on jailhouse justice. Okay, you know where you can stick that, to coin a legal phrase.

And now you're saying, hey, let's wait. If we can't get them on murder, maybe we can get them on tax evasion. Okay, head blowing off right now. But that said, let me give a more effective approach the prosecution could consider. Felony murder. They're already charged with felony child neglect. And during the commission of that felony, a death occurs, whether intended or not. Felony murder in many jurisdictions carries the same sentence as malice or murder one murder. I'm trying to talk legal practicalities, not, I don't even know what you're saying.

You're like you're from a different planet. Let's wait for a tax evasion charge. What about a felony murder charge? What about that, Daryl Cohen? Come on. Get back in the middle of the road with me. Get out of the weeds. I'm in the middle of the road.

You apparently are in the weeds. You don't like these people. And I don't blame you. But I will say this. I don't like it. It doesn't matter if I like them or love them. The child is dead and here is a plausible way to get a murder conviction. That's a possible way of getting a murder conviction, depending on what the circumstances

are after the investigation as to how this child died. If it can be proven that this child died and was then placed where he was found, that's one thing. If it appears and the physical and forensic evidence shows that he wandered away, then finding them guilty of murder is going to be a lot more difficult. But being difficult doesn't mean you can't get even in another way. No, I don't suggest tax evasion. I don't want to get even. I want justice. Brittany Schmidt joining me, anchor, investigative reporter. Brittany, where was the blanket found in relation to the remains?

Because that is a way for me to show he didn't just wander off. Where was the blanket, Brittany? It was just a few miles away from where the remains were found. So about a two minute, three minute drive. We even did the drive from where he was reported missing at the apartment complex to where the remains were found. Of course, it was blocked off by police. And that was about a four minute drive for us. But was it found out in the woods? Was it in a dumpster? Where was the blanket? It was out in a field. So you would have to think, oh, was the field near a roadway, Brittany Schmidt? It was near a road. Yes. Okay. So the state can

make a reasonable argument. The blanket was thrown out of a car. If you believe this child wandered away in the freezing snow, 11 inches with nothing but a blanket wearing a diapy. Oh, that's a good question as to whether he was wearing clothes. If clothing was found on his remains, that's hard to believe that he would walk out in the snow, discard his blanket in one place, and then walk another mile plus barefoot. Hey, Brittany, did the remains, were they found with any clothing or shoes? We tried to ask that question. We did not get those details, but I'm talking to the community that it's a very popular road where he was reported missing on. So when talking to community members, they said if they were to see a toddler walking, they would have seen him. So it was about a four mile trip from the apartment to where the remains were found.

A potential break in the search for missing Elijah view as human remains are found on a rural Wisconsin property. Has Elijah been found? The remains of this little top boy have been found. We don't know a lot of details yet. Was he wearing the clothes in which he was reportedly last seen? You got to, you know, consider the source where we got that information. He was last seen wearing gray pants, a long sleeve, dark shirt, red and green dinosaur shoes, and carrying the red and white plaid blanket that was found several miles away from the home. We know the skeletal remains have been found in a wooded area about three miles from Vang. That is the boyfriend's home, Vang's home. we have gotten confirmation through DNA testing that the

skeletal remains are Elijah view. To Dr. Erin Kimmerle, joining us, forensic anthropologist, Dr. Kimmerle, the reason I'm asking if the remains were totally skeletonized, which we understand they were, does that make sense that they're skeletonized after about six plus months, number one? And number two, if the remains are skeletonized, that means no soft tissue, no internal organs, no eyes, no skin. So we won't be able to look at the neck to determine if there was a sign of strangulation. We won't be able to look at the eyes to determine if there were burst petechiae. It's going to be hard unless you've got broken bones or unless you've got a

nick from a knife or a bullet, which I doubt, we're not going to be able to get cause of death without soft tissue. Could you explain that, Dr. Kimberly? You're right. They're going to be looking at each individual bone and trying to assess if there are any fractures. The most likely or most expected type of injuries would be blunt trauma because that photo you already see he had blunt trauma. But they'll look for even fracture lines, hairline fractures or breaks. And then they'll be looking for those that occurred at the time of death. Obviously, there's no healing on those injuries, but there may be other injuries from the months or years before that

that show a systematic or pattern of abuse. So they'll be looking for both of those types of injuries. To renowned psychologist Karen Stark. Karen, I've been looking at the text between these two ghouls straight from hell. And they're texting back and forth. And the mother, the biological mother of Elijah View says, I don't want him to hate you, just to fear you. How could we make sense out of anything that she said, Nancy?

Because this is somebody who sent her little boy there. And here's a little boy who couldn't be a little boy. He was treated like a terrorist. He was actually subjected to those kinds of tactics where he stood cold water, a dyke all day. This is a horrible, horrible example of parenting. It's abuse. And so I can't even begin to imagine what the outcome will be. But we hope that they get what they deserve and justice is served.

He also writes to the bio mom, quote, He did fear me, but he didn't respect me. Now I'm making him, a three-year-old top boy, respect me. I wonder how much respect he's going to get behind bars in the pen. Brittany Schmidt joining us, WBAY. Brittany, where are these two now? I'm referring to this guy, Vang, and Mommy. Right now they're sitting in the Manitowoc County Jail. So they're getting three hots and a cot while we are trying to stand, we're standing by to find out if all 300 plus bones of Elijah View have been found. If you have information

about what happened to this beautiful boy, just three, call 844-267-6648. Repeat, 844-267-6648. We stop now and remember American hero, Lieutenant Dustin DeMonte, Bristol PD. 35 shot and killed in the line of duty. Lieutenant DeMonte survived by his wife, who is expecting a baby, Laura, daughter, Phoebe, and son Porter. American hero, Lieutenant Dustin DeMonte. Thank you to our guests for being with us and helping us wade through the discovery of the remains of Elijah view. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend.

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