Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - REPORTER STABBED AFTER VEGAS POLITICIAN SEX AFFAIR EXPOSE

Episode Date: August 15, 2024

The murder trial of former Clark County Public Administrator Robert Telles has begun. A jury of seven men and seven women has been selected. Telles, 47, is accused of stabbing investigative journalist Jeff German outside the reporter's home. German had written several explosive articles for the Las Vegas Review-Journal exposing bullying, harassment, and an inappropriate relationship within Telles' office. A suspect was caught on surveillance video walking to the home, wearing an orange shirt with reflective stripes, a straw hat, and carrying a duffel bag. Police say that on the morning of the incident, the suspect approached German's home, went to the side of the house, and shortly after, German emerged from the garage door, went to the side of the house, and was ultimately stabbed. Telles is facing four charges: murder with a deadly weapon, burglary of a motor vehicle, and two counts of destruction of evidence. Joining Nancy Grace today:  Troy Slaten – Los Angeles Criminal Defense Attorney, Slaten Lawyers, APC; X: @TroySlaten Dr. Bethany Marshall – Psychoanalyst; Instagram & TikTok: @drbethanymarshall, X: @DrBethanyLive, Appearing in the latest season of “Paris in Love” on Peacock – BOOK: “Deal Breaker: When to work on a relationship and when to walk away” Irv Brandt – Senior Inspector, US Marshals Service International Investigations Branch; Chief Inspector, DOJ Office of International Affairs, US Embassy Kingston, Jamaica; Author: “SOLO SHOT: CURSE OF THE BLUE STONE” – AVAILABLE ON AMAZON IN JANUARY; ALSO “FLYING SOLO: Top of the World;” Twitter: @JackSoloAuthor Dr. Michelle DuPre – Former Forensic Pathologist, Medical Examiner and Detective: Lexington County Sheriff’s Department, Author: “Homicide Investigation Field Guide” & “Investigating Child Abuse Field Guide;” Forensic Consultant Jaewon Jung - Senior Reporter KTNV, Las Vegas,  https://www.ktnv.com/jaewon-jung  @jaewonnews on all social media   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A reporter stabbed dead, repeat, stabbed dead after a Vegas politician's sex affair exposed. And when I say exposed, I mean exposed. We have video of this politician, you know, I hate politicians, getting out of his vehicle, like tucking his shirt in the front. And then the woman gets out, basically adjusting her pantyhose. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Journalist Jeff Gehrman walks straight into an ambush attack. He was stabbed four times in the neck and three in the torso.

Oh, my stars. Just whoa, whoa, wait, wait. Head pounding. Again, I'm seeing my pulse in my eyeballs. I may need the medical examiner. But hold on. Before I go to J. Juan Jung, Vegas senior reporter, KTNV, let me go to my longtime colleague, Dr. Michelle Dupree, forensic pathologist, medical. Oh, I see Troy Slayton already squirming in a seat. High profile defense attorney. I bet you are squirming.

Dr. Dupree, again, forensic pathologist, medical examiner, former detective, author of her new book, Money, Mischief, Murder, The Murdoch Saga. This is the one that I'm most interested in. Homicide Investigation Field Guide. You can find her at dmichelledupreemd.com. Okay, that aside, did you hear that, Dr. Dupre? Four stabs to the neck? I mean, you and I have been on a lot of crime scenes,

but a stab to the jugular? Blood spurts out like a water sprinkler. Everywhere. Nancy, that's devastating. I mean, I opened this up, Dr. Dupree talking about how, you know, we've got that video of the politician getting out of his vehicle, adjusting his clothes. And then you see the woman I'll never forget at one of my other TV homes, which shall go unnamed. There was an office affair of a big honcho, I might add. And late at night, he spotted walking through the newsroom and then followed like 30 seconds later. That's not obvious by the woman with her skirt still tucked into her pantyhose.

Guess what? Nobody said anything. She walked through the whole newsroom like that. Okay. That said, Dr. Dupree, can I not think about her straightening her dress for a moment? Back to the four stab wounds to the neck. Explain. Well, Nancy, as you've mentioned, that would have been massive

blood everywhere. I mean, as you said, it would have spurted out. It would have been a horrible crime scene. And then three to the back of the torso. Okay. We've got the stab wounds to the neck and you were saying, Dr. Dupree, what were the other wounds? There were three to the torso as well. That's overkill. I mean, that's a lot. It sounds almost like a frenzy. Okay, what do we know? Take a listen to Captain Dory Corrine. We began our homicide investigation about five days ago on Saturday, September 3rd. This was after we received a 911 call of an unresponsive male that was found on the side of his home. Our preliminary investigation call of an unresponsive male that was found on the side of his home. Our preliminary investigation revealed that the unresponsive male was deceased as a result of stabbings.

We also determined pretty quickly that the victim was Jeff Gehrman. Jeff Gehrman is a well-known investigative reporter, and that was taken into account immediately. Guys, I'm just trying to make sense of what we're learning right now. Preliminary investigation reveals unresponsive male, already deceased, with four stab wounds to the neck, including the jugular running right here. That goes without saying. Already deceased. He didn't make it to the hospital. We determined quickly the victim was Jeff Garman, well-known investigative reporter. And that was taken into account immediately. Translation, they knew exactly who the victim was. Okay, what do we know

about him? Take a listen to our friend Vanessa Murphy, KLAS-TV. Jeff Garman, long time Las Vegas reporter, was originally at another newspaper here, then went to the Review Journal for at least the past decade. Well respected. I know his colleagues, they had nothing bad to say about him, just a tenacious reporter. And as an investigative journalist, oftentimes we are uncovering truths that people do not want to be uncovered. And he was doing that on a regular basis. But that's part of the job. And I think it's interesting that his colleagues say that he never felt like he was in immediate danger at the time.

Joining me, Jaewon Jin, senior reporter, senior investigative reporter, KTNV, ABC affiliate, Vegas. J1, thank you for being with us. You know what photo I like the most of our victim, Jeff German? The one of him smiling. It looks like a headshot that he may have had taken because it looks like he's just about to break into laughter, like he's just holding it in long enough for the camera to click. And that's what I have learned about him during this investigation, that all the other reporters loved him. That's who he was. And he had no idea that in his digging, he was going to end up dead. I think it's really interesting that Las Vegas Review Journal editor-in-chief Glenn Cook even said that when Gehrman's murder happened, so many people could have wanted him killed because he did expose corruption in Las Vegas for so long, for pretty much four decades. Hold on just a moment, J1. You stated uncovering corruption. Now, what that means in my mind,

I've prosecuted a lot of homicide cases. But when you're dealing with players that are powerful, that can pull strings that will have prestige, money, position lost if their secrets are uncovered. That's deadly. That's like playing with a rattlesnake. What do you mean this guy uncovered corruption? Yeah, Jeff Gehrman was known as the mob reporter in Las Vegas, and he wanted to expose corrupt politicians. That was sort of his whole beat while he was at the Las Vegas Review-Journal. Explain, like what? He wanted to see if politicians were abusing their power. And he wanted to uncover that and expose that to the people of the Las Vegas Valley. Guys, what do we know about this reporter fighting those in power that he believed were corrupt? And what do we know about his murder? Listen. The suspect was wearing an orange shirt with reflective stripes, a straw hat, and was carrying a duffel bag. And what was likely an attempt to either disguise his identity or conceal his identity.

Okay, joining me right now, Troy Slayton, high-profile lawyer out of L.A. Hold on, Troy. Can we see a picture of this? The captain had it right beside him as he was giving the press release. The perp is, oh my goodness. Okay. You might as well take out an ad on 3rd Avenue. Look at me. This is some getup. Reflective strips. Look at the video. You think nobody's going to notice that, Troy Slayton? It looks like a worker on the street that you would see in construction sites all over the Las Vegas area. It doesn't to me.

Wearing a giant straw hat. Doing what? No. What? And a huge duffel bag? Why do you say that looks like a normal worker on the side of the street? Person's wearing gloves. It looks like they have work pants, a hat on, reflective vest. Looks like a construction worker or a street maintenance worker or any number of construction workers that you'd see in the Las Vegas area.

Okay, guys, what more do we know about this suspect in quite the get up? We also know that the suspect was walking westbound approaching Garamond's home on Friday, September 2nd, the day prior to us being notified. On that morning, he approached Mr. Garamond's home and went to the side of the house. Shortly after, Gehrman came outside of the garage door and then went to the side of the house and ultimately an altercation took place between the suspect and the victim. Our victim was stabbed multiple times. So to you, Irv Brandt, joining us, former senior inspector with the U.S. Marshals Service, the International Investigations Branch Chief Inspector, also DOJ, Office of International Affairs, an attache across the world. And he has just released his fifth novel in his Jack Solo

series. Wow. I wonder who that's patterned after. Forever Solo, Night of the Dragon. Irv, thanks for being with us. Can we look at this guy one more time? He's wearing bright orange. You don't usually see burglars wearing bright orange, a big straw hat drawing attention to himself. So what do you make of this? And we know he was walking westbound approaching Gurman's home on Friday, the day prior to police being notified. Nancy, I hate to agree with defense counsel, but I live in Las Vegas. This is what you see every day on the streets of Las Vegas. If you want to go unnoticed, the lawn care workers wear bright colors to reflect the heat. If you want to go unnoticed and especially disguise your appearance with that hat, that's the way to go. The suspected killer caught on surveillance video, dressed as a road worker donning an orange work shirt, a wide straw hat and gloves, approaching Gehrman's home. And stalking the reporter's home the day before. This is what more we've learned.

On day two of our major case protocol, we developed a very critical lead, which was a vehicle that we identified. It was a maroon-colored GMC Denali that was suspiciously driving around in the neighborhood on the morning of the murder, prior to the murder, and then certainly was there at the time when the murder happened. That vehicle had stopped multiple times throughout the neighborhood and was behaving suspiciously or was suspicious. We determined that the suspect wearing the orange shirt had fled in that vehicle, which connected the vehicle to the suspect. To Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us, this is reminding me, almost fingerprint, the glam yoga instructor. Remember her? Caitlin Armstrong, who stalked her victim, a world-class dirt bike rider up and coming. And she stalked her all the way to a friend's home and was caught because of her vehicle. And there you see it. There is Caitlin Armstrong very slowly circling like a vulture

around Mariah's, the place that she's staying in town for a competition. And there you go, spotted, busted. So in this particular case, we see a getaway car. Could I see that? The GMC Denali, maroon in color, suspiciously driving through the neighborhood, same way as Caitlin Armstrong, the morning of the murder prior to the murder. And at the time the murder happened, the vehicle stopped multiple times. And that is suspicious. That's suspicious. Now,

Troy Slayton is going to tell us how it's not suspicious at all, but it is. How arrogant is this? Just like Caitlin Armstrong, you think you can pull up to a murder scene and you're a big honking maroon GMC Denali and nobody notices? And how about Brian Koberger, who just turns his phone on and off and has the white car that he drives around with? It is arrogant, Nancy. This gives us really good insight into the psychological profiles of this perpetrator, of Caitlin. They feel that they're above the law. They don't think that anybody can see what they're doing. I doubt that this perpetrator rented this Denali in order to commit the crime. This is probably

his own car. This is easily traceable. So when we think about what Gehrman was reporting on, I think what we're going to discover that whatever crime or whatever story he was in the process of uncovering, it was so blatant, so transparent that he had multiple people coming forward. And, you know, I'm wondering if there was another twist and turn to the plot of what Gehrman was reporting on. And, you know, I'm wondering if there was another twist and turn to the plot of what Garamond was reporting on. Like, what was the next big news that was about to come out that this perpetrator is so frenzied in his attempt to kill the reporter? Speaking of the car, let me go to Irv Brandt, who has tracked down people all over the globe. Could I see the video in the parking deck where the county official is getting out and adjusting his clothes?

And then I believe she's an employee gets out there. They're trundling forward out of the back seat of the Denali. Gee, I wonder what they were doing back there. OK, wait for it. The point is not him and her adjusting their clothing, but hey, this video from our friends at the Vegas Review Journal. Irv Brandt, how. There are very few evil geniuses. Criminals don't tend to be smart. That's why they're criminals. And driving a vehicle associated with you, something that you've been seen driving all the time, driving it to a crime scene or a potential crime scene, something you intend to do, is just a massive mistake. And police work, we call this a clue. So I guess Troy Slayton, criminal defense attorney joining us out of L.A.,

will say that it's not suspicious for you to drive around and around the neighborhood, stopping in front of the victim's home? Well, that certainly could be suspicious. but there's a lot of strange things involved in this case, including the allegation of police possibly even planting evidence. Somebody driving around in a neighborhood is not suspicious. And so I think that you're allowed to drive your vehicle anywhere. And this person was writing a story. This is an investigative reporter writing a story about this person. So maybe he does want to get some information about the reporter.

Okay. I'll just say that we've got Caitlin Armstrong's vehicle caught on surveillance video going around and around and around her victim's home. We also have, let's think, Rex Heuermann. Is he ringing a bell? The alleged Long Island serial killer who always drives his Chevy Avalanche, his green Chevy Avalanche to various locations connected to a series of brutal murders of escorts and what he thought nobody would notice. And even when the bodies were being found along Gilgo Beach, what was parked in the front of his house? The Chevy Avalanche. Let's see, that's two. And another just recently, a young wife gunned down around 6.50 a.m. setting up a yard sale outside her home. And with her ring doorbell camera working, you see the perp going back and forth in front of the house. I mean, you know, bottom line, it's age old, tried and true investigative work. But let's talk about

motive. For one moment, let me get off the car, the vehicle spotted outside the murder scene, and talk about motive. Listen. In this video, we see a car parked in, I believe, a mall parking garage, and it appears that the Clark County Public Administrator, Robert Tellis, is in the back seat with one of his employees. They are back there. We see some movement. He gets out of the right side. She gets out of the left, sort of pulls her skirt down. To Jaywon Jun joining us, investigative reporter KTNV there in Vegas. It's not just an alleged office affair, although I do believe the so-claimed mistress is listed as a witness on an indictment, which tells me there may be fire where we're claiming we see smoke. It's not that German was totally interested in some office romance or some illicit sex affair. It was much deeper than that, what German was investigating.

Yeah, exactly. There were several workers at the Clark County Public Administrator's Office who claimed that because of TELUS, the office was in turmoil. They claimed that TELUS was power tripping and that he was creating a hostile work environment. And they actually brought it up to Clark County to try and get these problems addressed. But because they weren't listening to their issues, the public administrator's office workers decided to take their concerns to Jeff Gehrman. And they said that Jeff Gehrman was the one person who listened to them. Wait a minute. Are you telling me, Jaywon, that the employees in the staff that worked there had tried to bring it up, had tried to get it fixed, that worked under Robert Tellis? Yeah, that's right. They did try to take their concerns to Clark County,

but they said that the county didn't listen to them, so they decided to take their concerns to a reporter. The suspected killer caught on surveillance video, dressed as a road worker donning an orange work shirt, a wide straw hat, and and gloves approaching Gehrman's home. Okay. What do we know? We know that this Vegas official is accused of not just a sex affair with an employee and that's bad enough, but, uh, and a so-called toxic workplace where employees were mistreated and bullied when employees asked for a change, asked for improvement. No one would listen. Can you imagine that one politician not calling the other one on foul play. Nothing was done. There was no change at all.

So what do they do? They call an investigative reporter. They call Jeff Gurman, well-known in the area for busting corruption in the government. There he is. He's dead. It's not just about a toxic affair. It's so much deeper than that. Listen. Robert Tellis sort of started on this is an office with a history of problems and he would come in and help clean it up. And what employees told the Review Journal is that did not happen.

And it seems that issues continued. And he was he's their boss and sort of bullied employees and made things even worse. Straight back out to you, Jaywon Jeon, joining us KTNV. Explain to me what exactly was alleged about the office and what did this mean to Robert Tellis? What was his position? Robert Tellis was the county public administrator, which a lot of people will be like, well, what is a county public administrator? It is a low level elected official, basically the person who oversees the estates of a person who passes away and determines the next of kin and yeah people in his office said because of this alleged affair that was happening in his office he was asserting favoritism towards one

certain employee um rita reed who's the current county public administrator actually said that she was one of the supervisors in the office. But as soon as Robert Telles came in as the Clark County public administrator, he allegedly told her that no one would be reporting to her anymore and that everyone would be just reporting to him. Jaywon Jeon, we have a photo of him standing posed with a woman and three children. I'm guessing that's his wife. Yes, that's correct. So he had a lot to lose.

Now, you referred to him as a low level county official. What exactly did his office do? So his office oversees the estates of people when they pass away and they determine who the next of kin is so that they could safeguard the decedent's property. Okay, that's worth killing over. Tell me about this, Jaywon. I understand that he, the low-level county official, tell us had been railing against Jeff Gurman for months, really attacking him in an angry series of messages on social media. Why? So Jeff Gurman's first article that came out about Tellus's work environment was, I believe, in May of 2022.

And I think the headline is something like telus's office is mired in turmoil then soon after that the a coroner came in to basically supervise the office and determine if there is corruption going on in the office and then just a few weeks after that, Tellus lost his reelection bid in the primary. So he was not going to be Clark County public administrator anymore. So he's got a wife with three children. He has a series of stories written by Gurman exposing turmoil within his office and claims he was having an affair with an employee. He also has about $120,000 salary. That's going right down the crapper. So he starts retaliation online, attacking Gurman with a series of angry and explosive postings. What would the postings say, Jaywon?

The postings would say something like German is a liar, that he's not telling the truth. Yeah, you could see it in those pictures right there, saying that he's looking forward to lying smear piece number four. Clearly, Tellus seemed pretty disgruntled by the articles that Jeff Gehrman wrote about him. Now, he gets thrown out of office and all this comes out about his affair, his alleged affair. But isn't it true a woman named Roberta Lee Kennett with where the husband and children is listed on the indictment as a witness. Sitting in on the jury selection for the last few days, I can tell you she is listed as a witness who is expected to testify in trial. To Troy Slayton joining us, high profile lawyer out of LA, Troy, typically a witness list is typed on the back of an

indictment. Why? So the defendant, when the indictment is read out loud in court at what we call an arraignment and a copy of that indictment is physically handed to either the defendant or his or her defense attorney, they can see, pursuant to the Sixth Amendment, so far at that juncture, who the witnesses will be against them that the state is intending to call. Now that witness list can be added. You don't have to, the state doesn't have to call all of those witnesses, but you've got to give those witnesses and a way to reach them

to the defendant and or his lawyer, correct? That's correct, Nancy. Or sometimes if it's not attached to the indictment, it's attached to the police report, which is given to the defendant at the time of the arraignment. The arraignment is the fancy legal word for hearing what the charges are against you and having the opportunity to enter a plea. In this case, he's entered a plea of not guilty. He's maintained his innocence, and he's been held without bail since the time of his arrest. And he's claiming here that at the time he was arrested, that the police were engaged in some shenanigans. Specifically, they magically lost the video, the body cam video that defense attorneys rely on, that courts rely on. It magically disappeared

and it is not available to the defense to be used in this case. Okay, great. Did I ask you about the body cam video? Because I'm going to give you a great opportunity to scream about what the police have done wrong, but I don't think they've got anything to do with those four stabs to the jugular vein. But what I'm asking you about, let me redirect your attention to the question I asked you, Troy, which I know you're trying to avoid. What do you think he thinks when he looks down at that indictment list and he sees the name Roberta Lee Kennett, a woman alleged to have had an inappropriate relationship with him? Tell us. Ouch. That must have hurt. Or she might be a helpful witness. Who knows? We won't know until his attorney is able to test her credibility.

She's on the state's witness list. I doubt she's going to be helpful to him. Well, she might be on cross-examination. Well, you're right. Things can turn on a dime when a good criminal defense attorney engages in cross-examination. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We were just talking about the alleged other woman, Roberta Lee Kennett, the one with the wife and the two children, not judging, don't care. All I care about is solving this murder. to another county office. But I understand that she was an estate coordinator in public administration under Robert Tellis' rule. So she would have been working there.

Now, to Dr. Bethany Marshall, I don't want to hear any trashing of this woman. You know why? Because her boss apparently was instigating an affair with her. Is it wrong? Yes. Yes. That's for her and her husband to work out.

But when your boss is making advances on you, not me, but a lot of women would think they had to go along with it to keep their job. I'm not saying that's what happened here, but I am saying he was her superior. Nancy, the responsibility lies squarely with him. He's the boss. And in terms of approaching her for an affair, this is an abuse of power. When there's a power differential between two people and there's an affair, the first thing I always think is that the person with the less power really felt afraid to say no. Again, we don't know for sure that that's a fact, but that is a great possibility, Nancy. Robert Teller seems to display so many traits that are typical of sociopaths. For instance, lack of cause and effect thinking,

driving back and forth with the Denali and walking down the street with that strange get up. He thinks he's not going to be caught. Manipulativeness, he seemed to be quite manipulative in his office, gravitating towards positions of power. Think about it. He had access to power, sex, and money through his job. And most of all with sociopaths, what you see is a thin veneer of affability, like they look sort of friendly on the surface, but it hides a cold, calculated interior. So here he's this public official, he's running for office, but all these vengeful texts that he's putting out there really display who he is as a person. And that's someone who plots and plans and who is quite vengeful.

Let's talk about the hard evidence. Listen. There was a vehicle that matches suspect's vehicle description, that maroon GMC Denali that was parked in front of Tellus's home. It was registered to his wife. And then we ultimately developed video evidence that showed that that vehicle, the GMC Denali parked in front of Tellis' home, had departed around 9 a.m. in the morning on the day of the murder and returned around 12 p.m. just after the murder, which matched our timeline. So, wow, he tricked me. He used his wife's car. Okay, it's not just about the car. There's more. Listen. We recovered a pair of shoes that matched the suspect's description.

There's apparent blood on the shoes, and the shoes were cut likely in a manner to try to destroy evidence. We recovered a straw hat that was also cut in a manner that was likely to destroy the evidence. And that straw hat, as you can see, matches the one in the photo. And we received positive DNA results that showed Robert Tellis' DNA at the crime scene. Troy Slayton, you still want to tell me that your straw hat doesn't matter? No, it might matter, and it might have been planted by the police. So, and that's not unheard of in this country, that the police, when they've got somebody that they want to, they believe is their perp, as the term you like to use, they may want to make their case stronger

by leaving some evidence and by getting rid of other evidence, which we know for a fact, in this case, they magically lost all the video of his arrest. So is it really such a stretch to think if they're willing to lose important arrest video in this case, they might be willing to place some other incriminating evidence? I'm so glad you just said that because J. Juan Jun joining us KT and V. Isn't it true when Tellus finally gets arrested for the murder of journalist Jeff German? He has to be carried away on a stretcher. Talk about a drama queen. Are you serious?

He what, hyperventilates and falls onto a stretcher? The guy is dead from four stab wounds to the neck and to the torso. And this one, what, loses his breath and has to be taken away on a stretcher? Yeah, he was taken away on a stretcher and police said they found self-inflicted wounds on his body. Okay. You know, it just never ends with this guy. And to you, Dr. Michelle Dupree, renowned pathologist and author, you hear Troy Slayton claiming the police planted it. Hey, Dr. Dupree, I guess, I guess I'll say great minds think alike.

Listen, I say that that evidence or so-called evidence was planted along with the other items that were allegedly found in my home as well. And we will go ahead and prove that at trial. That's tell us blabbing on 48 hours. Our friends at CBS. OK, Dr. Dupree, I'm so happy that he was so arrogant. He spoke to the media and he says, I say the evidence or so-called evidence was planted along with other items allegedly found in my home as well. And we will go ahead and we will prove that at trial. I was framed. Okay so how would they do this? Oh so Dr. Dupree what would the I guess the

medical examiner, you, how would you have snuck into Tellins' home, find his shoes all ripped up and put blood on them. Nancy, I really can't think of another way to do that. And I don't know any medical examiner that would do it. But, you know, certainly because blood was on the shoes, those shoes had to come in contact with the victim. I mean, this is crazy. Totally bogus. Totally bogus.

Because of the relentless follow-up of our detectives and with your help, I'm here to announce the arrest of 45 year old Robert Tellis. OK. He was booked in the Clark County Detention Center last night on the charge of open murder. Tellis busted. Tellis arrested. But I just want to talk about what we heard earlier about the alleged perp ending up on a stretcher at the time of arrest. Listen, the footage you saw him coming out on the stretcher. He had self-inflicted wounds and we were trying to provide medical attention to help him. They were non-life threatening.

Talk about a drama queen, Dr. Bethany Marshall, throwing yourself on a stretcher, what hyperventilating from your self-inflicted wounds? You know, I think Robert Tellis has what probably is my favorite personality disorder of all time. It's called histrionic personality disorder. And that's when a person engages in traumatic, rapidly fluctuating emotions and behaviors that appear deep in nature, but they're not deep at all. They're just designed to get out of some consequence, or they're for attention-getting purposes. That's all. Didn't he call the judge dishonest or a liar in one of the interviews? And also, in terms of the histrionics, his attempts to manipulate everybody are so thin. I mean, that jailhouse call, obviously, he's just thinking about the judge, the public, the jurors, and he thinks people are going to believe him.

His capacity to see himself and to reflect is so low. Nancy, it reminds me of that one story you and I covered years ago about the criminal that was trying to burglarize a house and he got caught in the chimney. Remember that one? It just kind of has that quality to it. You can't really see what's coming at him. You know, Alexander Pope had a saying, and I'm going to bastardize it. Pope said, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I say, a little power is a dangerous thing. I say a little power is a dangerous thing. Here we've got an

evil Barney Fife who has power over other people that work for him and the county government, for Pete's sake, on wills and estates, administrative work. But this guy is a bully. I want you to hear a 911 call that we obtained. Listen. 911 emergency, auto school 17887. Do you need police, fire or medical? Yes, hi. Can you please send somebody here? My husband is going crazy. He's trying to make us like hurt him or something. He just won't leave us alone. He had too much to drink tonight and it's just worse. Me and my kids are scared. Okay. Has anybody been hit or pushed ma'am? Well, he tried to hurt me, but that was, it's fine. He hasn't touched me since. Nobody needs an ambulance? No, no ambulance. Just

somebody to come calm down or something. Somebody out there already has the call set up. What you are hearing is Tellis and his wife, who had spent an evening at the Bellagio upscale resort hotel in Vegas. He gets drunk and attacks his wife, allegedly, in the car on the way home. And he's screaming, kill me, kill me. Okay, Dr. Bethany, I'm just a trial lawyer. I'm dealing with a horrific murder. You heard what Dr. Michelle Dupree said about these stab wounds to his neck and his torso. You just heard that 911 call, a belligerent bully. Weigh in. Well, not only belligerent, but sadistic, rageful, homicidal. I think, you know, these men and women who commit homicide like this have what I call

obsessional paranoia. And that is the belief that somebody else's presence on this planet is negatively affecting them. And all they want to do is wipe out that person's presence. And also with the sociopathic side, you often see promiscuity, you see substance abuse. And the final thing, Nancy, you know, any officer who responds to domestic violence disputes, almost always the perpetrator will open the door and say, he's hitting me or she tried to kill me. They always blame the other person. And in some ways, it seems like this elaborate projection into the other that the other is going to harm them.

Whereas, in fact, Robert is the one who wanted to harm everyone around him. He is the killer. He is the harmful one, not his wife, obviously. No one has been proven guilty. This is in the hands of a jury as evidence starts today. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.