Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Riley Strain, No Pants, No Wallet, No Water in Lungs: NO ACCIDENT?

Episode Date: April 1, 2024

Even though the body of Riley Strain has been found, authorities are no closer to releasing his cause of death. His body was found submerged in the Cumberland River, eight miles downriver from where he was last seen.  Strain still had on the white and black shirt he was last seen wearing, but his boots, pants, and wallet were missing.  The initial autopsy report says no signs of foul play, but the family ordered a second, private autopsy, saying the absence of water in his lungs raises questions about whether or not Riley drowned.  The family is also concerned that Strain was found nearly nude, wearing only his watch and a shirt. Pictures analyzed from the night he vanished show Strain had his wallet in the front pocket of his pants, and he was wearing Justins, which are square nose-style Cowboy boots. His body was found without the boots, pants, or wallet.  Joining Nancy Grace Today: Chris Dingman - Close family friend and spokesperson for Riley Strain’s family, GoFundme: @RileyStrain https://www.gofundme.com/f/riley-strain  Ben Powers - Attorney with Legal Powers PLLC, IG: legal powers/Facebook: Legal Powers PLLC Caryn L. Stark – Psychologist, Renowned TV and Radio Trauma Expert and Consultant; Instagram: carynpsych/FB: Caryn Stark Private Practice        Joe Scott Morgan – Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, “Blood Beneath My Feet,” and Host: “Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan;” X: @JoScottForensic Dryden Quigley – Reporter for WSMV 4 in Nashville; IG: @drydenreports/FB: @Dryden Quigley WSMV4/ X: @drydenquigley See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Scrubbed in sunshine. That is just one of the many phrases used to describe Riley Strain. So why now has a second autopsy been ordered? Very disturbing facts emerge about the discovery of his body. What does it mean? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories and on Sirius XM 111. A second autopsy? Why? Take a listen to Dave Mack,

Crime Online. The body of Riley Strain was found submerged under a log in the Cumberland River, eight miles down river from where he was last seen. Strain still had on the white and black shirt he was last seen wearing, but his boots, pants, and wallet were missing. Officials say it's not uncommon for clothing to come off drowning victims in the water. The initial autopsy report says no sign of foul play, but the family has ordered a second private autopsy saying no water in his lungs raises questions about drowning. The claim that the coroner noted a lack of water in Strain's lungs has not been publicly confirmed. That's a problem. Death by drowning, but no water in the victim's lungs.

You know what? Let's don't put the cart before the horse. Let's start at the beginning to figure out what, if anything, we can, based on the knowledge that we are learning from the autopsies. How did it start? Listen. One, what's the exact location of your emergency? Yes, ma'am. I'm at 1740 61st Avenue North, Nashville, Tennessee. 1740 61st Avenue North in the nation's office of general yes ma'am okay and what happened my company works on the river i have just found a dead body i believe it to be riley oh you know

what no matter how many cases you investigate, you prosecute, you cover, when you hear that, it stops you in your tracks. After all the searching, all the prayers, all the maneuvers to hear that, I found a dead body. I believe it to be Riley. Joining me and all star panel to make sense of what we know right now, but first to a special guest joining us, a very dear family friend, family spokesperson for Riley Strain's family, Chris Dingman, joining us out of Springfield. Chris, thank you for being with us. Thank you for having me this morning. Chris, I know the family is coming off a very emotional funeral, and that milestone, I guess, is something you have to go through to move to the next point, but I'd like to address the evidence, the forensic evidence

to try and analyze what happened to Riley. Because I, I find it very difficult to believe he fell in the water. Nobody knew about it, heard about it, heard him yell, nothing at all. And then he turns up without his pants on, his boots, his wallet, all missing. I have a problem with that. I've got a big problem with that. I know you just heard the 911 call. Chris, how did Riley's family discover a body had been found? We were, the family was actually notified via a reporter, the police calling us, letting us know that they had found Riley, which is not, I guess, it's ironic that most of our information has come from the media and not the police. That's my personal opinion on this.

But yeah, we were notified just literally moments before the police actually notified that it had not been verified, but they were pretty sure they had found Riley, which, you know, put the family in a spin at that moment. They had been searching so hard for a positive ending, but also had ultimately found the ending. Yeah, I'm taking in everything that you're saying, but that feeling that hearing those words is something that stays with you the rest of your life. I know. I know that. When I first heard that my fiance was dead, I really didn't believe it. My mind was playing all sorts of games to, oh, if I can get there, maybe there's been an accident. I can fix it. Where is he? I'll fix it.

And it wasn't until I saw my pastor write Bernstein Funeral Home that I realized what was happening. And then it took me a really long time to take it in. Who answered that phone call? His mom or dad? Actually, it was a joint call to the family. His stepdad and mom was at the house. Ryan, his dad was already out and just left the house, I think, to go towards the boat to get on it to search. And I was leaving the house. And we noticed that, you know, they'd gotten an important phone call because they got quiet. But we had to go chase down some leads. Oh, I hate that feeling, Chris.

Chris, I hate that feeling. When there's buzz going on, all of a sudden somebody's on the phone and everything gets quiet. And you're like, what is it? So it was the mom and who else on the phone? His stepdad, Chris. The other Chris. Yes. So did his mother expect this or was she completely floored when she got the news? Michelle, at one point, we did have a family conversation of the bad outcome that could happen.

She was prepared, but only as you can prepare a mother that's missing her cub. You know, she knew that with the days that went by and the lack of evidence and the lack of stuff that was being generated at the you know in nashville itself by the police department that it may not have a a happy out you know outcome but she never gave up hope uh to find her her son we never gave up trying and we were blessed with the media getting r Riley's story out, generating the leads that we needed, because at that point, literally the media, the social networks is the only leads that we had been given, period, as to what had death of Riley. I want answers. So far, we keep hearing that his death, quote, continues to appear accidental. But, you know, I don't get it. I don't get it. Ben Powers joining me, high profile lawyer joining us out of this jurisdiction at LegalPowers.com. Ben,

thank you for being with us. Why would they say it, quote, continues to appear accidental? When he, what, he accidentally threw his pants, his shoes, and his wallet and jumped in the, fell in the water? That doesn't make any sense. Why are they saying that? Well, so when it comes to the medical examiner making that type of determination, what they're looking for is clear signs of trauma, you know, a gunshot wound, a clear stab wound, something like that. And a medical examiner's determination, no signs of foul play or no signs of trauma consistent with foul play is a determination that's not static, it's fluid. So if new information is developed, new information comes forward, Riley and tossing him in that way,

or just pushing him down the embankment is going to look exactly identical to him falling in. It's indistinguishable the type of injuries you have. Ben Powers, I hate everything that you just said. And I'm going to tell you why, but I need backup. Join me right now. A high profile medic, high profile death investigator, professor of forensics, Jacksonville state university, author of blood beneath my feet on Amazon. What else can I say? Let's see. Um, and star of a hit series body bags with Joe Scott Morgan, Joe Scott. Now I know you're used to getting in front of juries and giving a very lengthy explanation of COD cause of death, but I have one question and it's a yes, no, Joe Scott, yes or no. Okay. Here's the question. Isn't it true that death investigators and medical examiners

take into account before they reach their determination, not only the physical evidence that you get from the body, but extrinsic evidence as well, such as I had an arson case. Okay. Uh, was it an accident? Did this wife really die in a fire? Well, I looked at extrinsic evidence, including the fact that her husband took all of his suits, all of his shoes, all of his ties to a dry cleaner, multiple dry cleaners in the area in the days before the fire, uh, called the weather station. And I had them on tape finding out if it would rain that day, the day of the fire. And fire, and also calling his insurance company to find out would they pay for furniture replacement. And then bam, his mansion caught on fire and his wife died. That's extrinsic

evidence, not to mention raiding his place of business and finding bags and bags, trash bags, black plastic trash bags, as I recall, full of things from the home, such as his own family photos, not her, but his family, his mom, his grandma, blah, blah, blah. That's extrinsic evidence. So my question to you is, isn't it true the medical examiner can take into account extrinsic evidence when determining whether there's been foul play? Yes. I can't believe it. He did it, Jackie. He actually said it in one word. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. So Ben Powers, the extrinsic evidence I'm talking about would be the fact that he doesn't have on pants.

How's that an accident? No, and I agree. I think that the fact that he doesn't have on pants but still has on his boxers is definitely something of concern. Because if they're trying to say that the river current took his pants off, you're telling me that something that's indiscriminate in tearing his pants from his body is delicate enough to leave his undergarments? That just doesn't make any sense. And then when you factor that in with the debit card found on the river bank, it just continues to make so many irregularities. Eventually you have to acknowledge this doesn't add up. The math doesn't math because you've got the debit card on the river bank. The

pants are missing, but the boxers are still present. Hold on before I lose the thought, before I lose the thought Ben Powers, I'm going to follow up with Joe Scott Morgan about the pants missing. But as you pointed out twice, and I'm glad you did because it sparked a thought, if the current had somehow dragged his pants off, why not the boxers too? If the current was that strong, I don't know that I've ever seen a drowning case where it literally pulled your clothes off. Hold on just one moment. I want to go to Dryden Quigley, joining us, investigative reporter WSMV4. But first, let's get some more knowledge before we reach a conclusion. Take a listen to more of the 911 call. What else do we learn about the discovery of Riley's body?

Listen. And you said you guys found a dead body? Yes, ma'am, in the river. of Riley's body. Listen. black shirt, kind of like a white, muddy looking on the front. It's face down in the water. Yes, ma'am. Caucasian. It looks like a male. Yes, ma'am. I want to hear more of that 911 call because I'm learning a lot of facts. Listen. Is he completely submerged or is he right on that, like the bed? Not the bed, but like is's partially in the water, partially out of the water. No, he's fully submerged besides his back sticking out of the water. I actually had to move a log off of off of the head to confirm it was a body. Okay, I have this call up and I'm gonna get somebody out there. Okay.

No. All right. I'll meet them up top. I'm going to get somebody out there, okay? All right. I'll meet them up top. I'm going to make my way up from the river here in just a few minutes. Okay. All right. I'll let you go. All right. Thank you.

I'm very intrigued, and I want to know if everybody else has noticed this as well. Let me just throw it out to Joe Scott Morgan. This has nothing to do with the body, but you and I have listened to a lot of 911 calls. I'm sure you have too, Ben Powers, in court. Why do the 911 dispatchers always like, what? Huh? It's a dead body. They're like not even worried. Does anybody notice that beside me? No. I mean, when you hear her responses, Nancy, you have to understand she's got other calls that have been coming in. All right. This is not separated from her. She has to survive in the environment that she is in.

And she has to remain. Oh, please. Other calls. Oh, there's a fire hydrant running on Main Street. Oh, I see a car accident. They look like they've hurt their neck. Okay. You know what?

That's what you've got for me she's taking other calls she can't really get invested i know she's she's dealing with things like domestic violence calls those sorts of things maybe armed robberies we're talking about anything nashville's a big town nancy and so she has to deal with a lot of things she cannot have her voice going up and down in these sorts of things. She has to maintain calm during the midst of this. Okay, you can call it calm. Some people might call it disinterested.

But I'm going to go with what you said. Nashville is a big town. There's a lot of crime. So she is not my concern right now. Dryden Quigley joining us, investigative reporter, WSMV4. Dryden, tell me, first of all, thank you for being with us. Tell me about the discovery of Riley's body because it's not adding up for me. Yeah, I mean, it was the second call of the dead body we got that week.

So at first, I think a lot of us were like, is it going to be him? Is it not going to be him? So when we got this call that they found a body in the river, a lot of us rushed out there, you know, to see what was going on, if it would be identified as him, which it was, unfortunately. When you rushed out there, Dryden, what did you see? So I myself wasn't on the scene. We had sent another reporter there first, but I know that when he got there, there were a ton of police officers there. They weren't able to go exactly towards the water, but, you know, they had a lot of officers. I think the feeling was that, you know, it was going to be Riley this time. I don't know how Riley's mom, Michelle, even had the strength to stand up in front of microphones and speak to the public as articulately as she did. Bringing home not only has she lost her son, but now that he's been found, so many questions.

You know what? Let's hear part of that 911 one more time. There's something very significant there I want to analyze. Is he completely submerged or is he right on that, like the bed? Not the bed, but like is he partially in the water partially out of the water no he's fully submerged besides his back sticking out of the water i actually had to move a log off of it off of the head to confirm it was a body okay i have this call up and and I'm going to get somebody out there, okay? All right.

I'll meet them up top. I'm going to make my way up from the river here in just a few minutes. Okay. All right. I'll let you go. All right. Thank you. Chris Dingman is with us, a very dear family friend and spokesperson for Riley Strain's family.

They have a GoFundMe, Aunt Riley Strain. Chris, the details that we're hearing, that his head was lodged under a log, that his boots, wallet, pants missing, but especially hearing on the 911 call that his head was lodged under a log, are those facts that the mom, Michelle, knows? Is she, it would break my heart to hear those facts. I don't know that she's ready to hear that. We actually, as a collective group in Riley's War Room, kept a lot of stuff from Michelle, just because as you deal on a daily basis and a lot of people on the panel today, it's a dark world out there and people like to do cruel things. So I am unaware at this moment. I don't think Michelle knew the graphic nature of how Riley was found.

The war room, the dad's uncles, et cetera. Yes, we were quite aware of it. And the wild part is Ryan, Riley's dad, actually was at that location and they pinged it that night at like 11 or 12 o'clock that night in the boat as a possible location to search with the dogs. I do know that. To Karen Stark, joining us now, high profile TV radio trauma expert and consultant at KarenStark.com. If you're looking for her, that's Karen with a C. Karen, thank you for being with us. It's bad enough when the one you love.

You lose them, they die. But then you find out about a traumatic death. And as you and I have discussed many times about Keith you think oh did they feel what happened did they know what was happening to them what my point is did they suffer what was that like and then you find out it could have been wrongdoing on someone else's part, such as a murder. It's overwhelming. I don't know how, you know, Karen, I thought I knew it all when my fiance was killed, but now that I have the twins, I don't, I can't even imagine what Michelle is

going through. And now this and the confusion about what really happened to Riley. I mean, I'd rather know. Look, he was rolled by some homeless people. We don't know who yet, but his pants didn't just float off in the water. That's not what happened. And I don't believe they or other items have been recovered yet, which you would think naturally they would follow the current where the body went. Right. Well, they haven't. So where are they? What happened? So without knowing the truth, you're kind of left in some horrible purgatory, some limbo where you don't know what happened to them. Nancy, if you think about what happened with you with Keith, right, the more details that you're able to have, even though it's horrific, it's just you want to know. You want to know exactly

what happened because your imagination just keeps going. It's not like you could let it go. This is traumatic. Your child is dead before you. It's not the way it's supposed to go in the world. And so here you are with this situation and you're told that his pants are off. Well, they say that you can't take pants off if you're in the water. He couldn't do it himself. His boots were off. They found the cards. So the more details that are confusing that he died by drowning, but no, maybe not, the harder it is. And they need to have the beginning. Look, they will never heal from this. You know that more than anyone. But the beginning of some kind of process to make them be able to live with this. They're not having that right now.

Joining me in All-Star panel, but first I want to go to Joe Scott Morgan, Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University and death investigator. He has investigated over 1,000 deaths. Joe Scott, again, thank you for being with us. This is a lot of information to digest, and I want to hear your analysis, especially about no water being in the lungs in a drowning case. Listen, you're not always going to find water in the lungs, Nancy, in a drowning. You can have what's referred to as a dry drowning many times. This is where you have actually a spasm that occurs in the organs of the throat.

You can prevent water from getting in. But, you know, here's the problem with this. There's other locations you look to see if there are, in fact, evidences of drowning with a body. And the biggest problem I have with this, Nancy, is that they have not had sufficient amount of time to do all of the testing, including toxicology, that they need to come back to. This is an incomplete investigation as far as I'm concerned. Hold on, hold on. Everything you're saying is extremely valuable. I'm trying to write as fast as I can.

Okay, dry drowning. You want me to accept that. You know, whether or not you want to accept it or not, the reality is that it does occur. So you can have. How often have you seen it happen? I'd say probably at least a dozen times over the course of my career. Worked a long time in New Orleans.

What were the circumstances? You have individuals that go into the water, particularly in an inebriated state. This can particularly happen sometimes. And you can have individuals that have sustained trauma where this occurs as well. And generally, there's going to be some kind of neurological compromise. I don't know what that means, neurological compromise. Well, that means that they have sustained a head trauma, perhaps. But he didn't.

How do we know? Because it wasn't reported in the autopsy. All right. Yeah. Well, yeah, and they haven't reported toxicology yet either. I think that it's very important that they have a second autopsy. Apples, oranges. See, Joe Scott, I know your game really well.

When you throw things on me like neurological, what did you say? Neurological what? Compromise? Is that what you said? Neurological compromise? Yes. You're throwing words at me as a medical examiner, as a death investigator, that a lawyer wouldn't necessarily know what that meant. But guess what? I do know what that means

for once. So let me just say, then you said, when I said, well, there was no report of a blow to the head or any contusion, any hemorrhage, bruising to the head, you went, oh, well, there's not toxicology either. Apples, oranges, because you can look at the body and see if there's a blow to the head. Easy. You can't look at the body and know about toxicology. You have to wait until those blood tests or tissue tests come back. So if they're telling, if they're not noting in the autopsy that there's a blow to the head,

then there's not a blow to the head. That's not something you have to wait on. Right. You're absolutely right. And so I think that other things that they need to be digging into here, Nancy, are something that we look for in drowning, which are referred to as diatom testing, which are these little algae creatures that exist in water. That has not been released as well. I don't know if they're doing diatom testing there. Also, any kind of barotrauma. And what we look for is water in the inner ear. Many times this happens when bodies have been, say, submerged at great depth. And yeah, we get water in our ears when we swim.

However, this is something this is deep within the ear. And many times this happens as a result of force pressure. I'm interested to try to understand why in the hell they have released this information so prematurely when they don't have a complete investigation done at this point in time. I'm still waiting. I'm trying to decipher everything you said. Dry drowning. And you said that you, Joe Scott Morgan, have encountered dry drowning about 12 times. Isn't that what you said?

That's correct. Do you think it's 12 or could it have been less? No, I'd say it's probably around 12, yeah. Around 12, okay. And Joe Scott Morgan, how many death investigations have you conducted? I don't know, Nancy, probably upwards of, I don't know, 4,000, I would imagine. So 4,000 around, just like around 12. Now it's around 4,000. So out of 4,000 death investigations, you've had around 12 dry drownings. Is that correct? Correct. And in those cases, did you say that often you found a neurological compromise, plain language, regular people talk, blow to the head?

It does occur, yes. Did it occur in those 12? To the best of my recollection, every single time they were compromised in some way, either from a head strike or from being inebriated. Somebody I know is going into cross-examination mode, and that would be you. Because when somebody throws out, to the best of my recollection, that means I may be right or I may be wrong, but I'm going to CYA by saying to the best of my memory, I see you smiling too. I see you.

But that said, you're telling me out of 4,000 cases, you've had about 12 dry drownings. And in those 12 dry drownings, they had, as you say, neurological compromise, i.e., blow to the head. Yes, no. Yes. Okay. Got it. So in this case, since we don't know about a blow to the head, that differentiates itself

from all of your dry drownings. Okay. Um, now that we have ferreted that out, Joe Scott, please just tell me what you think in regular people talk. No neurological compromise, no blow to the head, Extrinsic evidence. He doesn't have his pants on. Boots would have just dragged him down to the bottom. His debit card is up near that homeless camp. His wallet's gone. I don't understand.

I don't understand what dragging him down to the bottom has to do with the condition in which his body was found and where he was found. It is possible for boots to come off. I have a real problem with pants coming off, though. I also don't know if his pants were belted as well. That has not been addressed at all. And here's another thing. Those clothes would have had to have come off early on, Nancy, because as the body is in the Cumberland for this protracted period of time, I think we're looking at, what, a two-week period. Forgive me for saying this, but the body will become bloated during that particular bit of time. That means that with the bloating comes tension, and so the body begins to swell. So the probability of the pants coming off as he's been in there for a protracted period of time would not have happened at the end or

prior to the discovery. It would have had to have happened prior to. All right. So I think that that's something else that needs to be factored in as well. Okay. That is the Joe Scott Morgan you're hearing right there. That is the renowned professor at Jacksonville State University and the author of Blood Beneath My Feet and the star of Body Packs with Joe Scott Morgan. Everything you just said is brilliant. I didn't even take notes because I wanted to drink it in what you just said. The one thing, I did manage to write down two words. I didn't want to miss anything.

And what you just said is critical. Were those pants belted? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The suggestion that this young man died of a dry drowning doesn't make any sense compared with the extrinsic evidence that we have learned. To Dryden Quigley joining us, WSMV4 there in Tennessee, explain to me where the body was found in relation to all the other points of interest, specifically that homeless encampment. Yeah, so that's right where he went into the water. So you're walking along this kind of the road on your right side is going to be this steep, steep slope into the river. There's no way that he was walking down towards that river. But there are some homeless camps, you know, kind of perched along it, but it's very wooded down there. So if he would have had to fall or yes, been pushed over

kind of the edge into that water. And then his body was found a few miles down the river from where he supposedly went in or where he was last seen on camera. Chris Dingman joining us, the family spokesperson, very dear friend of Riley's family. Chris, what does all of this mean to you and the family? Once again, we have way more questions than answers. And to answer one of the panelists, I did confer with the family last night, much like my son is the same height as Riley, and you've seen the pictures of him. The boys wear belts because they have swimmers bodies in essence. And, you know, there's very, very, very good chance Riley did have a belt on that evening. Where the location it went in, I'll be honest

with you, I'm a very avid outdoors guy and it's extreme terrain at the homeless camp area let alone the sheer drop-off area where the credit card was found the debit card uh more confusing questions from the police officer's body cam if you time stamp it to where the detention center picks back up where where Riley is no longer seen in any videos. There's numerous, numerous people on the scooter. They're also walking, that's in that time era, that somebody, it wasn't like it was a, three o'clock in the morning, everybody went home. There are people, cars driving by.

We even had one of the gentlemen say, that I saw two Teslas setting in the police cam footage for the body cam. Now they run video 24-7. I still personally think that somebody knows something, you know, whether it was a homeless person, a person visiting from out of town, who, I think there was too many people that was in that area for it just to go unnoticed. That's my personal opinion. Agree. Joe Scott Morgan, why was it so significant to you to find out whether Riley was wearing a belt?

And now that we believe we have the answer from Chris Dingman that he was, what, if anything, does that mean to you, Joe Scott? It means, Nancy, that it would be much more, it's more plausible, I think, our potential. The potential exists, as Dr. Bass has said, I think previously, that the pants may have come off. They could. But if they were belted, it would be a much tougher hill to climb, that the water would just simply pull them off. Because as was mentioned, this young gentleman is tall and slender. Those pants are not going to stay up. He has to have them belted.

And again, when you combine all of these things, I worked a lot of cases, Nancy, where people's shoes do, in fact, come off in the water. The current generally facilitates that. But when you have pants that come off, that's a completely different animal at that point in time. That's what, you know uh leaves me with more questions and answers here dry drowning is also known as laryngeal spasm as joe scott was saying earlier how your larynx will spasm but would that spasm last long enough? If it unspasmed, would he ingest water? And if you drown, I thought the reason you drown is because your lungs are full of water. So how can you drown without your lungs being full of water?

You can drown without the water present in your lungs, because if you'll just think about, which we cover a lot of these cases, Nancy, asphyxial deaths, you're essentially depriving your brain of oxygen. And so that's going to be compromised. If he has any substances on board, that's also going to be another compromising position. But as I'd mentioned just a moment ago, and I think that this is important for them to explore, he would still take on enough water if it could get into the peripheral system. That means out into his organs,

into his bloodstream, and even in, yes, to his bone marrow, where you're searching for diatoms. We take samples of these areas of the body, and you do what's referred to as an acid test on these areas. And you look for these little creatures that only exist in waterborne environments, and they kind of spread out. We do this in drowning cases with great frequency. And so, I'd be curious if they took the time to do that. And that's only something that happens in the anti-mortem state, Nancy. That means it doesn't happen post-mortem. You have to take these on and they have to be shunted off into the peripheral system at that point in time.

So I'm still waiting on that, just like we're waiting on toxicology. Chris Dingman, you inferred that people have been embedded into the homeless community to get information? Did they get any information? We've got a lot of information that we're still processing through. Unfortunately, when all this went down and due to the media impact in that area, the homeless scattered. 90% of them do not want to be in the limelight or talk to people, etc. We do have personally, I don't think Metro Nashville is following up on to people etc we do have personally i don't think metro nashville is following up on it but we do have personally some people that we are still trying to track down in other camps just for information if this truly was an accident uh you know michelle has her son home

and they're going to get to have a proper burial which was big big for me on the side of the family i i did not want to have to bring michelle home without her son, good or bad. But Michelle does have that. But now we're able to actually dig into some of the stuff that we have questions on. The priority was getting Michelle, her son, and Ryan and Chris to get them home back in a controlled environment with loved friends and family and everybody. But now the dad's in the war room. We need some answers. You know, we've got questions just like on the panel today. We've given each other information and we thought we had an angle. And all of a sudden now we have a hundred more angles.

But no, there's people of interest that we personally are trying to reach out to, not because we think there was malcontent in it, but somebody, you know, somebody knows something. There's just too many people in that area. One of the theories was that, right, maybe Riley had went around the corner, tried to relieve himself. The young lady from Nashville doing the reporting with us in the group, she can verify that terrain is extreme terrain right there. And Riley, of all my boys, even though he's not mine, all my boys, he was the modest one. You know, he was not a go out in public kind of guy like we were raised on the country. So that was nothing that ever crossed my mind.

And also, one more question. Everybody's talking about the boots. I have to let everybody know those are a size 15. And if you've ever had wet boots on or wet shoes they're extremely tough to get off that young man had a size 15 shoot on so boot on so a lot of questions we're trying to get answers unfortunately we can do that at this moment because riley is home uh but we need the help we need the help of the public uh That seems to be where we've gotten our answers as a family. And I think there's still more answers out there. A dry drowning,

no water in his lungs with no blow to the head. When does that ever happen? Practically never. What happened to Riley Strain? To you, Ben Powers, high profile lawyer in that jurisdiction, weigh in. So for me, the thing that stands out is the commonality of the things that are missing, the boots, the pants, and the debit card that's discarded. Those are all things that are valuable to the encampment where he went missing. The debit card may have been discarded because you have to go use it. And to use it, you have to go be on camera using it. And so it's too much risk, potentially. It doesn't have intrinsic value like the pants and the boots that are missing. I think that in combination with all the other evidence we've discussed certainly raises a lot

of questions that we don't have answers to today. You're right, Ben Powers. Those boots have not been found. And I'd like to know whether anybody's wearing those boots as we're talking right now. To Karen Stark, psychologist. Karen. I'll tell you, Nancy, they will never get over this. You know that. She's talking about holding babies close.

But the more answers that they have, the better it is for the family despite the grief. If you know or think you know anything regarding the death of this son, this beloved son, Riley Strain, please dial 615-862-8600. But right now, let's pause to remember American hero officer Jonah Hernandez, just 35 years old, Las Cruces, New Mexico. Loved helping those in need. Life long dream of becoming an officer. Leaves behind wife Yesenia and two beautiful young sons. Jonah Hernandez, American hero.

Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.