Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Romeo /Juliet? TEEN GIRL TELLS NANCY 'WHY I'M AFRAID TO GO HOME

Episode Date: November 30, 2023

Teens Jonathan Stockle and Penny Lyles are still on the run. Today father Ryan Lyles joins Nancy Grace to deny claims that he is abusive to his family and has threatened the Stockle family. Then, hear from Penny Lyles and Jonathan Stockle themselves, as they tell their side of the story.  The Clatsop County Sheriff’s Office says it has not substantiated the allegations of abuse against Ryan Lyles.   Joining Nancy Grace Today  Ryan Lyles - Penny's Father Wayne Stockle - Jonathan Stockle's Father Lisa Herrick -  Board-certified Juvenile Attorney, Partner at Varghese Summersett, and Former Juvenile Prosecutor; Instagram & Twitter: versustexas, TikTok: lisa_herrick_attorney, Facebook and Youtube: Varghese Summersett Dr. Bethany Marshall – Psychoanalyst (Beverly Hills); Twitter: @DrBethanyLive/ Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall; Appearing in the new show, “Paris in Love” on Peacock  Barry Golden – Former Senior Inspector for the U.S. Marshals Service, Owner of Golden Consulting and Investigations Blaise Gomez - News 12 Lead Journalist; Facebook: Blaise Gomez, IG: @blaisegomez12, Twitter @blaisegomez12   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. With me right now is a special guest, and we've heard a lot about him. But now let's hear from him. Joining me right now is Penny Lyle, 15 year old Penny Lyle's father, Ryan Lyle's. Mr. Lyle's, thank you for being with us. Hello. Mr. Lyle's, this whole thing has spiraled, has spun out, way out of control.

I know from talking to you before we went to air that your number one concern is getting Penny home safely. How did this whole thing start? Well, it started with my older daughter's cell phone. She said it needed to get fixed. And I said, we'll set it on the counter. And the cell phone sat there for a day or two and started going off with messages. I looked at the phone and seen some incriminating messages on the cell phone. What did you see? Just they're buying drugs or using drugs. They're sneaking out

at night. They're not being responsible kids. And it wasn't just my oldest daughter. It was all of them. Jonathan's the only one with a car. Now hold on. I want to clarify. They're not out buying crack and heroin. You're talking about marijuana and possibly molly. What's called molly is what they had mentioned. Marijuana and

molly. Which is? It's supposed to be MDMA or ecstasy. Yeah. And my concern with that is it could have that fentanyl. It could have anything in it. You don't know what it's been mixed with. Yeah, it could have anything. I don't.

So the older sister, Penny, who is 15, older sister, leaves her cell phone. It's ding, ding, dinging. You look at it, and as I would, you start reading it. Of course you're going to read it. And you find on Penny's older sister's cell phone texts and messages about marijuana, about Molly. And of course there are parents out there that only wish their children were just on marijuana and or Molly and not heroin and not cocaine and not methamphetamines but still i would be beside myself as well if i found out the twins were using marijuana and molly so you find other things on there about sex which no dad wants to think about his daughter but it happens but it's my understanding from what you told me earlier your big concern was about the drugs.

And so what do you do? So I text Penny, come straight home after school because, you know, sometimes they'll meander around and drive the logging roads. Or this is what I thought they were doing, you know, just going to lunch. I'm really now I'm not sure exactly what they would do. So you texted Penny, who is now missing. And I mean mean did you text her siblings i only only text penny come straight home after school um my son would ride the bus home so i didn't have to worry about him and my oldest daughter had graduated already

so it was just penny i needed to tell to come straight home. But in the meantime, I had told my wife what I had found, and my oldest daughter had heard that conversation because she was here at the house. And she called Penny and told Penny, Dad got my cell phone and he knows everything. He knows it all. He's in the cell phone. He's got access to it. We're busted. And based on your other daughter calling Penny and going, the gig is up, dad knows everything, he read my phone. Penny is afraid because she's going to get in trouble. Penny is afraid that she knows what's going to come.

She knows that Jonathan, she's not responsible to have Jonathan around the house anymore. She knows that that's because we had an agreement. You know what I mean? Jonathan could stay here if you guys got straight A's. There's not any, like, physical intimacy. There's not. There was rules set out to this relationship. And we shouldn't have done it to begin with, but there was rules set out.

And they knew the consequences of the rules now you let jonathan when you guys moved you let jonathan who is now turned 18 move with your family well why i was very strict with my oldest daughter we didn't allow dating we didn't allow that type of thing and it didn't turn out well and so i thought, we're going to try this a different way. We're going to let Penny have a boyfriend and we're going to, like, you know, nurture the relationship and watch it and be involved in it and teach her the proper, you know what I mean, the proper way to have a relationship. I figured I would go that route because the other way of just nothing didn't work.

Okay. And made, you know, made my other daughter lash out a little bit and be rebellious. So Jonathan didn't live in the house with us. I have a large property here in Oregon and I have an apartment and he lived in the apartment and like they like they could, there was curfews to where he had to go to his apartment. And so it wasn't a free for all here. So question, after your daughter, Penny, who's now missing, gets tipped off, dad's mad, he knows the whole thing. What happens then? Well, I, I just continued to look at these texts and I really, I didn't think anything about Penny not coming home or anything like that because she's a good kid. At about 3.45,

four o'clock, I'm texting Penny, you know, where you at? And I didn't get anything in return. And I called her several times and nothing. So I drove to the school. And when I got to the school, the doors were locked and the sheriff was there and they had Penny inside and Jonathan. The doors were locked. The sheriffs were there. The doors were locked. The sheriff, they wouldn't let me in the school to talk with my daughter. I imagine because Penny said she was scared. Scared of what? Well, she wouldn't say. She would just say she's scared of losing Jonathan. Okay. Because she, what, in your mind assumed that because she's in trouble that you were going to make him leave?

That was already a known consequence. They're only allowed to have this if they were going to be responsible people. And if you can't be responsible, then like if your grades fall, you know what I mean? You have to be responsible in order to have that privilege. And they were doing all right. Their grades had started falling a little bit. And, you know, Jonathan didn't do any sports this year, and Penny didn't do any sports. They didn't do any of that stuff that their parents claimed they did.

They didn't do any of it. They weren't involved in school at all. They wouldn't go to church with me. And it was starting to get a little frustrating, to say the least. But now I realize why. When you get to the school, the doors are locked, the sheriff's there, and Penny's inside. What happened then? I waited around for a few minutes and I thought, you know, this is fruitless. I need to call my wife, tell my wife what's going on and get her involved. I called my wife and she left work immediately and she went to the school. I went home at that point. You know, I had a son that's there and, you know, I needed to go home.

Well, plus they told you they're afraid of you. So you leave and your wife gets home because your goal is to get Penny. My wife went there. Yes, my goal is just to get Penny at this point. And then what happens? And my wife is there and they won't let her in. And they're questioning Penny and Jonathan for two hours, two and a half hours. And there was no pictures of abuse or videos of abuse or allegations of abuse at that time. They simply were scared to go home because they knew the consequence of their actions.

Now, as you know, it has been alleged there is a video of you abusing one of your children. What is your response to that? Let's see it and put it on national news for everybody to see. That's my response to that. I'd like to have them produce it, whoever says they have it, and let's see it. Because it doesn't exist because I don't abuse my children. Question. Yes.

Were you in the court hearing when Jonathan's dad gets a protective order against you? Were you there? No, they did that in Missouri, and I'm in Oregon. To your knowledge, was a video or anything like a video or text messages produced to the judge? judge. There was, from the paperwork I got, the, I forget what it's called, the evidence or whatever that they put, was three statements written on handwritten paper and they all said the same thing. Ryan called me on this date and threatened to kill me and my family. That was the three things that were listed in the report. I don't know if there was anything else, but that's what I was given and that's what the order was based on. Ryan Lyles, this is Penny Lyles' dad. Are you telling me that you have not abused your children? Never, not once. I treat them like princesses and princes. My family means everything to me.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Can we talk about something else you told me? Yes, ma'am. How you tried to give them, you gave them a horse. You got a car for Jonathan when he moved with you, a truck, I believe it was. Tell me about what you've tried to do for your children. Because there's a, I wish I could remember where it was. Jackie, of course, you have to look it up.

There's a phrase in the Bible that says, of course, I'm going to try. I'm going to give you what you need. If my child asks for bread, would I give them stone? I mean, you try to give your children what they want, what they need, to delight them, to make them happy. Tell me about how you raised your children, specifically Penny. So Penny is actually my first daughter. My oldest daughter, she's my girl, but she's not biologically mine. I've had her since she was one, but Penny is my first girl. She's my baby, and I've treated her as such her whole life.

Everything that she's ever wanted, you know, they get it. You know, I'm a softie for them. I protect them. I do everything. They've had horses. They've had, you know, everything that they can imagine. If they wanted this pair of shoes, they got it. If they wanted to go here, they got it.

You know, this prom, this winter formal, you know, I pinned Jonathan's flower, you know, on his suit that I bought him. You know, they took my truck. You know, I treated Jonathan, too, like he was my own. When his car broke down, you know, the next day or the day after, I got him a truck to drive. I bought him, you know, and handed him the keys and the title and said, here you go. I just don't understand what the whole thing is just baffling.

Because right now, it's my understanding and and we're going to talk to Penny. It's my understanding, Mr. Lyle, that Penny and Jonathan and I can honestly tell you, I don't know what state they're in right now. What's their true location? They're afraid that if they come back, that you are going to insist that Jonathan go to jail and be prosecuted and they're going to be split up. That is their big fear. What is your response? When this whole thing started, there's several texts that I sent them and I talked to Penny and told them, if you guys continue this, it's going to be out of dad's hands. It's going to get out of dad's hands where there's nothing I can do about this. And Jonathan's going

to get in trouble. Just come home. Just come home. Even through all the, all the stuff, the first week I agreed with the police. yeah, let's not press charges. Let's just get them home. We don't want Jonathan to be scared. The officer asked me, hey, this is our plan. Is this okay with you? I said, yes, 100%. Do whatever you think it takes to get them home.

Now after the second time that he did what he did, I don't, I don't, it's out of my hands. I can't choose to prosecute. You mean when she slipped away from authorities? Yeah. And he picked her up and they took off? Yeah. Got it. I can't, I don't, I don't have any control over that.

If authorities come to you and say, do you want to press charges against Jonathan? If you think you can get Penny to come home, if you ask for no charges, would you do it? A hundred percent. But this is my fear. Jonathan has already proved that he will follow Penny and take her. And if I let her back here, of course there's going to be, you know, like she's not going to be rewarded for this kind of behavior. I mean, that's understandable for many parents, right? She's not going to like take her to Disneyland for doing this.

So what, I don't know what to do about this situation. You don't know the answer. I don't know the answer. But you would ask authorities not to prosecute as it stands right now. I want to ask you about this TRO, this TPO, protective order. I'm reading it. I've got the same thing you've got. And there's a handwriting in it, and it says, this is an allegation by Jonathan's dad

Wayne Stockle okay November 14 Ryan Lyles stated I'm reading what he wrote Mr. Lyles Ryan Lyles stated I will kill your entire family

in quotes over the phone I asked him to stop making threats. November 15 next day, same threats repeated, asked him to stop. November 16, same threats repeated on phone, asked him to stop. In the next little segment, it says repeated threats have made, have been made against me and my family. He sent a text stating he is coming to our town. The text stated he has my children's information. The threats were, I will kill your entire family.

What is your response to those claims? So the only truth in that is that I text him that I said I was coming to his town and I know all your families where they live. But that's not the entirety of the text. That text was me saying i will find my daughter i think you're helping them and if you have my daughter i will find them i will never quit looking i believe that they they have penny right now is what i believe i believe penny's there in in missouri with you think penny is with jonathan family? A hundred percent. I think that they're involved in this more than they're letting on and they're helping them. And the fact that they say that the kids were sweeping leaves and doing odd jobs is just nonsense.

Okay, I have your text and this is what it says. We know you're helping them. Okay, you do believe you're helping them. Okay. You do believe they're helping them. The last thing you need is us in Thayer, which is where they live. I will be there soon watching your family looking for my kid. I have all your older kids info as well. I will find Penny.

You're a pile of shit. Jonathan is going to get in prison for being a pedophile. You keep helping and giving them info. You be getting in prison too. I'm not proud of that. Why would you take that? I'm not proud of what I said.

But in context, he had just called me and told me that if I touch a hair on Jonathan's head, he would kill me. And so this isn't just a one-sided thing with me threatening. This is two dads that are very, very angry and very emotional reacting towards each other, with only me going to, or with only him going to the police. What has your life been like since Penny took off?

Until we found them in Tonopah, until they had them in Tonopah and we knew they were out of state, I literally drove around all day and all night looking for them, just all day, all night. And what about your wife? What about your wife? She misses Penny. She's just distraught. She's having to, when they found them in Tonopah, she immediately started driving towards Bakersfield. And she was over halfway there when they told her that Penny was gone. So she had been, you know, not sleeping for a week and then had to drive for 16 hours to Bakersfield. And she had been a rough go at it.

You told me you spent days and nights just driving around. How do you sleep without your daughter? If you could speak to Penny right now and she could hear your voice, what would you say? Penny knows the truth and she knows her dad and her mom and her brother loves her. And she can just come home. And we have to get on with life. This just can't go on like this. We can't maintain it like this, Penny.

We love you. Come home. Your room is just as you left it. Just come home. Do you agree with me, Mr. Lyles, that until you and Mr. Stockle come to some kind of a truce, they're not coming home? No, I don't think that Mr. Stockel should have anything to do with it. But I do think that I am happy if they are at Mr. Stockel's house because they aren't out in the world. And we know what a scary place that is. I do have to say I would prefer if they were there. They're not going to come home as long as they think that you're going to pull a gun and

shoot them. They don't think that. They know better than that. This is a ploy from Jonathan just reaching and grabbing at straws. And his parents don't help him when they, you know, take the lie and then project it even further. So I don't have anything against Mr. Stoffel. I just want my daughter home. I can only imagine that she's supposed to come home from school one day and then you never see her again. And I would like to point out when we told you that we had been in touch, Penny had reached out to us and contacted us. Yes, last night you broke down in tears with relief that you knew for sure she was alive. It's difficult. I can't imagine not knowing where my daughter or my son are.

I don't think I could live. With me, you are hearing Ryan Lyles explaining much of what has been said and his plea to Penny. And one more opportunity. Your message to Penny is what? Just come home, sweetheart. Wherever you're at, we'll come get you. We'll get on an airplane, come get you, come home, and we'll continue on with life. There's going to be some hard decisions that have to be made,

but we love you and we're here for you to help you make them and just come home. You got to come home, sweetheart. Mr. Lyles, thank you for joining us. With me now is teen girl Penny Lyles, who has now been missing with her sweetheart, Jonathan Stockle. Penny, your father has told us he will do whatever it takes to get you back home, worried sick, driving around looking for you, that if it were up to him alone, he would not press charges against Jonathan. He also denies any and all abuse on you or anybody in your family. What's your response? Yeah, I'm doing everything in my power to not go back to that God awful home. They are lying. They've lied their whole lives about

everything and nobody should believe a word a single one of them says. Would you go back home? Would you go back home? No, I'm doing everything to not go back home. Why? Because if I go back home, he is going to do horrible things to me, and I'm just going to live this miserable life, and he is going to try to do something to Jonathan,

and he's just not going to tell me. He's just using that, so I'll come home. When you say he, your dad, will do horrible things to you what do you mean? It could be dragging me through the gravel by my hair it could just be threatening to kill me it could just it could just be slapping me in the face numerous times to the point my mouth is just absolutely gushing blood it it could be so many different things. Have you been abused in the home? Yes. What happened?

Well, for starters, one of the games he would have us play is where we would run through the backyard and he would shoot us with the BB gun. And he also did horrible things to my little brother. Like one time he picked my little brother up by his hood and was choking him because my little brother left an orange juice can in the sink. He dragged me and my sister and my other brother through the gravel by our hair and said he was going to send us away because we were little. And my sister sprayed hairspray on the mirror, but she was too scared to admit that it was her. So he started screaming at us and going crazy.

And since no one would admit, like, who did it, he threatened to take us to juvie. And that's when he started dragging us to the car by our hair, saying he was going to go get the hairspray can fingerprinted and send us to juvie over it. Wait, who sprayed who with hairspray? My older sister sprayed, like, the mirror in the bathroom with hairspray? My older sister sprayed like the mirror in the bathroom with hairspray. Just, she was a little kid. She was just doing little kid things. And you remember being dragged by your hair through gravel? Yes. How old were you at that time? I would say I was nine or ten. Since that time, what abuse have you endured? He doesn't do too much to me anymore, but now lately he's just been screaming at me. He's just threatening me.

He makes me do weird things like sit on his lap, and he tells me about how much virgins are worth and how much he could sell me for. Okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, wait, wait, what? He would make me sit on his lap sometimes. And if I didn't and told him I was uncomfortable, he would just tell me that I didn't love him. And then he proceeded to tell me about how much virgins are worth and that he could sell me for a lot of money. When did this occur? Um, I would say maybe a year ago. It was like right before I moved to Missouri. Where is your mom in all this

um just standing there by my dad not really saying anything so between the incident when you were nine or ten when you were dragged by your hair through gravel and the incident where you are sitting in his lap and he is discussing how much virgins are worth was there any abuse and that was about a year ago is there any abuse in between those five years um yeah they would just repeatedly smack me and just things like i understand consequences for action but like being smacked is one thing but being like repeatedly hit is under you mean mean hit in your face? Yes. Hit where else on your body? My legs, my butt, my back, my arms.

For what? For what? You're hit for what? What reason? Just anything. Like it could be really simple things. It could be just I didn't understand. Like if he told me to do something and I asked questions like that he thought were dumb about like the instructions,

he would just get mad and just lash out on everybody. How often did this happen, Penny? Probably every day. Was it with an open hand or a fist or an object? All of the above. What object? A belt, a book, a plate, a cup. Tell me what happened the day that you and Jonathan took off. Well, my dad called me and he told me that he found like I was using drugs on my sister's phone, which is not true. I do not use drugs. And my older sister, she's done some things that she has before she has gotten into some drug use. And it was on her phone

that she was doing that. But then he tried to say that it was me and Jonathan were doing all this, and it's just not true. So then he told me that he was just going to make my life miserable, and he was going to beat Jonathan up and then send him home. Now, wait a minute. Is this in text or verbal? It was over the phone because I was at school. So he called you at school? Yeah.

And? So after that, I told Jonathan what was going to happen and we were scared so I decided to try to come forth again with what he's done to me because I went to DHS in Missouri and they didn't do anything. When did that happen? You went to the Department of Family and Children Health Services? Yeah I went through it by going to my school counselor there and I told them and they got me a DHS officer or whatever and I had to have an interview with them and they interviewed me my older sister and my little brother and when my parents found out because DHS went to the house they came and pulled me my siblings out of school and we had to sit at the house

for the rest of the day because my parents didn't want us talking to them and then what happened with that investigation? I have no idea. The DHS, when they went to my house, my parents just told them to leave, and they left, and I never heard anything again. And how old were you at that time, Penny? 15. 15, 1-5, is that what you said?

Yeah. Okay. That was in Missouri. Mm-hmm. Nothing became of it. What was your dad and mom's reaction to you getting in touch with DHS? Well, the school counselor. They didn't know it was me.

I tried to do it all anonymous because I knew that if it didn't do anything and my parents knew that I had done that, that things would just be awful for me at my home. And what did you tell DHS? What did you tell the school counselor? Well, I started off with that my dad is a felon and has all these guns in the house because that's right off the bat, just illegal. And then I told them. Why illegal to have guns in the house? He has a whole safe of guns and they're technically all in my mom's name, but he's used them before and all this. So I know that is a leak.

Question. So you go to the school counselor and you tell them about the guns. What else did you tell them at that time? I told them just a brief about the abuse because I had to go do do all my classes and stuff and I didn't want to waste all my time because of school and everything like that and I knew my parents would do all that and they had to go talk to my little brother and we were just on like a time frame for being at school for it to remain anonymous so I just gave them like a brief rundown of pretty much everything that's happened at my home to me and my little brother and my sister. Have you ever been sex abused?

No, just weirdly sexual things, not like rape or anything like that. When you say weirdly sexual things, what happened? Well, he would manage like my body weight and he, when my boyfriend came to my house, he asked my boyfriend why he got with me because I don't have a good body okay and I just the sitting on his lap and telling me about how much virgins are worse those were just and he it's just always just things about my weight and he would just shame me for it and just things like that. I mean, aren't you 5'5", 120 pounds? I'm 5'6", probably like 110 now. How are you living and eating and surviving? Well, even though I'm a kid, I've had to live as an adult. I'm very mature. I have a mindset. I'm not dumb, that's for sure. And I've just been getting along by the money that we already had.

And we've been doing jobs for people like raking leaves. And we unloaded a U-Haul, which we made $160 from that. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The day that you decided to go on the run with Jonathan, I know you're saying your dad called you at school and confronted you about possible drug use, which you deny. You say he told you he was going to make your life miserable.

So what did you decide to do? I decided to put an end to everything that's happened to me. I've had enough. That was my last string. And I want to live a normal life as a normal teenager. And I never got that. So that is what I'm pushing towards. So I told the counselor, the counselor told me, let's go to the office. We'll get the cops down here and everything. And the cops told me when I was there, I'd showed them pictures and things of abuse that he did to my sister because he would like go through my phone all the time. So it was really, really hard for me to get evidence. And he told me that if I had stuff on my phone like that, that he would just make everything miserable

and awful. And I don't really know what that means like exactly. So I wasn't about to find out. What is the abuse on your sister that you had on your phone? My sister was standing up for herself because my parents were just shaming her and down talking to her because telling her that she's just never going to be anything in her life and that she's just worthless. So my sister was standing up for herself and my dad, and she wanted to go downstairs to calm down. And my sister is a very religious person. And so she finds herself like calm down when she reads the Bible. So she was going to go downstairs just to calm down to her room, to read the Bible. And my parents proceeded to go downstairs, um, attack my sister. My sister was obviously not just going to let that happen. So

she tried to fight back a little bit, but then my dad grabbed her, dragged her up the stairs and put his hand over her mouth and she was screaming. And like, she was saying that she couldn't breathe very well. And my dad just wasn't listening and continued to drag her upstairs and threw her on the living room floor. And it just, they started screaming and yelling and lots of hitting was going on with that. And you have a video of that? I only have, I had my friend over at the time and we were just, my dad wouldn't let me, like let us come out of the room. So we were just sitting in my room. So we took like videos in my room so you can hear what's going on and you can hear my sister screaming and banging around. And then we have pictures of like what she looked like after. What did she look like? Her face was all

beat up and puffy and she had my dad's hand marks all over her. She her face was like it was bruised on her cheek a little bit. You could see nail marks on her arms. So that day when you decide to leave why did you? The cops when I was there they told me that for that night I could find a safe spot to stay like at a friend's house. But then they proceeded that night to hunt me down like I was a criminal. And they told me that they were going to detain me and that I should just go home, get abused, and then come back. Why would they want you to go home and get abused and come back? Because they told me that I just didn't have enough evidence and that they couldn't do anything.

So what did you do? I was going to go stay at my friend's house for the night, but then the cops were trying to come to her house. So then that night I was just hiding everywhere, laying down in bushes. At one point, the cops and my dad were right next to me and I had to get up and run and I managed to get away where they didn't see me. And then me and John my dad had told Jonathan that he was going to shoot him and kill him and send him to jail and was just saying awful things so out of fear for both of us we both decided to leave and just drive away I understood that one of the school counselors told you to slip out the back and you did

yeah but yeah that is 100 true but the cops the cops told like the school and everything like they said it was all okay and when my mom was at the school um jonathan went outside to talk to my mom and my mom had said that my dad hadn't done anything to me since i was nine which right in front of the cop. So that alone should be enough. You mean the incident where you were dragged on gravel? Yeah. So did you slip out the door pursuant to what the school counselor said? I slipped out the back door and I got picked up by my friend.

And I didn't think that I would be doing everything that I am now, of course. But I was planning on just at least I just need a new home. That's all I was trying to do is find somewhere that I can go. When you say a friend picked you up, was it Jonathan? No, Jonathan did not come with me. When did you and Jonathan reunite? When Jonathan told me that he was scared and that my dad was chasing him through the woods and Jonathan had lost his shoes and was running barefoot in the woods and it was cold and

everything like that. So we came and me and my friend went and got him. And then he, cause he was cold, freezing, terrified that he was going to get shot or something by my dad. How did that whole thing happen? How did it end up that Jonathan, from what I understand, Jonathan says he was running through the woods afraid he was going to be shot. How did that whole thing happen? I wasn't there, but I'll let Jonathan tell you. Okay. Jonathan, how did that happen? Okay, so whenever I was making my way down to my vehicle

to leave the school and to just go to a different town away from Penny, away from Penny's dad and everything, I was walking down to my car with a group of people, and Penny's mom was sitting down there, which I was totally fine with Penny's mom and everything. She's usually not too, too bad, but she usually holds a handgun on her. That's why I had a group of people with me, just so it's safer. Wait, who holds? Oh, she holds a handgun on her. That's why I had a group of people with me, just so it's safer. Wait, who holds, oh, she has a handgun on her. Okay, go ahead. Yep. And then as I was proceeding down to my vehicle, then Brian pulled up and they were

surrounding my vehicle and everything. And then when I was down there, Brian spotted me right, right up the hill from where they were at. And he yelled that he was going to shoot me. I sprinted straight to the police officers, which were behind the school, because I just had talked to them. And they were behind the school, so I went and informed them that Ryan said this. And then they went down to Ryan and asked him if he said that. And Ryan simply just said no. And then they were like, well, Ryan said no.

And they searched Ryan, and he didn't have any handgun on him. if he said that and ryan simply just said no and then they were like well ryan said no and they searched ryan and he didn't have any handgun on him but they did not search jessica or anything and ryan usually has a pocket knife on him and everything and while while the police were down there then i went back towards that way with my group of friends and everything and ryan spotted me and he chased down somebody else but as he was chasing my friend down as he thought it was me then he said you better run motherfucker i'm gonna get you and i ran to the forest and i was running through creeks and everything, cold water, mud, you name it, everything. And then I heard a bunch of dogs barking. And that's whenever I texted my mom that I was scared because I thought that they had canines after me.

And I was hiding out in a bush for a long time. Penny was two towns over. And I was texting her. I was like, I'm freezing cold. I don't know who to text. Can you guys please come pick me up and at least bring her I was like I'm freezing cold I don't know who to text can you guys please come pick me up and at least bring me somewhere so that I'm warm and they come it came and picked me up and whenever Penny and I were together then I tried to de-escalate Ryan a little bit by texting him and everything but he he's just uncomfortable so was that the incident where you're running through

the woods barefoot and penny's dad is chasing you with a gun were you running through the woods barefoot yes where were your shoes somewhere by the school i tried to find them before i started running again uh while the police were down with Ryan but I couldn't find why did you take your shoes off uh whenever whenever I first started running from Ryan they just flew off I had hay dudes on okay so you're was he in fact chasing you or do you did you think that because you heard dogs barking okay so he he was going to proceed to chase me but he chased down one of my friends that were, like, around the same height, same hairstyle and everything. Okay.

And he also texted us how Ryan chased him down. So he chased down the wrong person. So, yes, he would have chased me through the woods if he chased down the correct person. Okay. So you thought he was chasing you at the time, but he really chased your friend? Yes. Okay. So you thought he was chasing you at the time, but he really chased your friend? Yes. Okay. Got it. And then hearing the dogs only exacerbated that thought in your mind that you were being chased by him and you feared he had a gun. Okay. I understand that. So what happened? Penny actually is apprehended by authorities.

And then somehow she doesn't want to go home. She doesn't want you to be prosecuted. And she slips away by saying she's going to the bathroom. What happened? Whenever Penny and I got there, then she was planning on going to one of her uncles, which she barely knew. And from what I picked up about him living at Penny's household, that he wasn't like the best, best person. So then I told Penny that it wasn't safe and everything, that it's just not like a good idea. And Penny told me that she was uncomfortable way before i even said anything about that to her and penny and i both went into the building and i told the guy that uh penny was going to the bathroom and then him and i went to his office and then he went to the

bathroom and that's whenever i went like towards the back door but penny was at the back door and then she was like, we need to leave. I don't feel safe. I feel like I'm going to go home. And then she opened up the door, ran to my vehicle, and she said, get me out of here right now. And that's whenever we left Nevada. We got out of Nevada and went to Arizona and got out of Nevada. I'm not going to ask you where you are.

I told Penny's father, I don't know where you are. But I do. Can Penny hear me right now? Okay. I do want you to hear what her dad said. Her dad is not on with us right now. But he spoke to me earlier. Could you please play cut three?

Just come home, sweetheart. Wherever you're at, we'll come get you. We'll get on an airplane, come get you, come home, and we'll continue on with life. There are going to be some hard decisions that have to be made, but we love you, and we're here for you to help you make them, and just come home. You've got to come home, sweetheart. I believe that Penny is concerned, Jonathan, that you're going to be prosecuted. You turned 18 and she's 15.

I'm not entirely sure that you could be protected under the Romeo-Juliet law because you guys' ages are very close together. I'm going to go to Lisa Herrick on that. But I want you to hear, Penny, what your dad says in coat one. If you think you can get Penny to come home, if you ask for no charges, would you do it? 100%. you ask for no charges, would you do it? A hundred percent. Penny, sit tight. Jonathan, hold on. I want you to hear from Lisa Herrick, a juvenile lawyer.

Lisa, would Romeo and Juliet statutes protect Jonathan from being prosecuted? My understanding is yes, Nancy. Every Romeo and Juliet defense that I've ever seen is usually within three years, unless I'm getting their birthdays wrong. It sounds like she was already 15 before he turned 18. So they would be within three years of each other and the Romeo and Juliet laws should apply. There will be no, well, I'm not sure what there will be, but there could be claims of statutory rape. There could be claims of kidnapping. There could be claims of taking a juvenile across state lines. Those are the charges that I see.

Now from my viewpoint, to prosecute a rape charge, Penny would have to testify that sex occurred. As far as a kidnapping or a transporting child across state lines, that could be proven with or without Penny's testimony. That said, a Romeo and Juliet statute might still protect him. Penny, if you thought Jonathan was not going to be prosecuted, would you go back home? I'm never going back to my home ever, not once. And once I'm 18, I do not plan to speak to my parents ever again. With me also is Wayne Stockle. This is Jonathan's dad. Mr. Stockle, thank you for being with us. Mr. Stockle had a long talk with Penny's dad who says that he did send those texts and that he wished he had never done it. I'm sure he does wish he had never done it.

I feel that a big problem to resolving this is everything that's happened between you and Penny's dad. Would you be willing to work together to, I don't know that she's ever going to go back to her parents' home. I don't think that's ever going to happen. Would you still be willing to work with him at this juncture? Because they can't stay on the run forever. At some point, Penny is going to be found. I hope this all ends today.

I hope that some legal experts help these two kids. They were scared for their lives. They're still, I don't see how you can be prosecuted when somebody's going to kill you and you run. It just seems crazy. This is like a nightmare that's unbelievable. Just help the kid. Well, I have to agree with you. I have to agree with you. If Jonathan is in fear of his life, whether we think he was or he wasn't at the time, if he's in fear of his life and a judge has granted a protective order in your favor, that goes to corroborate his fear. It's not just him. Other people are concerned as well.

I just don't want to see them throw away their lives and in the end— Me too. I just want the whole thing to—no, they need to stop being on the run today. This whole thing needs to end today. be willing with a lawyer present for you to speak to police um the only thing is is out of everything i've told the police i just need a 100 guarantee that i'm not going back to my god-awful home because barry golden joining me senior inspector uS. Marshal Service at now at Golden Consulting. Yes. Barry, a U.S. Marshal, they're going to find Penny and Jonathan. It's a matter of time. And I don't want them to pull a full on Romeo and Juliet where they both end up dead. I don't either. They're going to be found. So can you explain to Penny and Jonathan, it may be today. I'm not revealing anything. I don't,

I know. We don't know anything. We don't know where they are, but one day it could be today, next week, next month, they are going to find them. And the only thing they can do right now is to cooperate. Because once they get found and carted off to two different facilities, it's going to be out of their control. At least maybe now, with the help of a lawyer, it can be sorted out. Do you agree with that, Barry Golden? Yes, I do, Nancy.

And Penny's assistance in defense, she could also use the police and law enforcement in Oregon to be frustrated and pushed to the point where they issue a warrant for Jonathan because then if they're stopped again like they were in Nevada last Friday the police aren't just going to let Jonathan go they may take him into custody and that's what we don't want we don't want them to be separated we don't want penny to be visiting Jonathan in a jail cell or talking to him through plexiglass on the phone. We want this to be a happy ending and not a sad one. But what can they do? Look, this is what they want. Both parents want them home safe. Both parents want them safe. I don't know if they're ever going to be at home again. But that said, Penny does not want Jonathan prosecuted. She's not giving up until there's some assurance that's not going to happen.

Now, here's the thing. It's not going to be up to Jonathan's family. It's not going to be up to Penny's family. It's not going to be up to Penny's family. It's going to be a prosecutor that makes that decision. What can they do? Exactly. So it is going to be a prosecutor who makes that decision. What they want to do is not give a prosecutor any reason to find them less sympathetic. They're very sympathetic right now. They're a young couple in love. They're fearful. It sounds like Penny has, she's able to articulate very good reasons for why she's fearful. What we don't want to do is have them continue to run where now the police and the prosecutors think their only option

is to pursue criminal charges because that's the only way to get them to come back is to arrest them. That's the only way to ensure that they're not going to run away again. Penny, weigh in. Do you fear that you will be harmed if you go home? Yes, 100%. I'm doing everything I can to not go home. If I come back, I need, if I come out from running, I need 100% guarantee that I'm not going home.

And if I get put back home, I will just leave again. Blaise Gomez joining me from News 12. Blaise, do you believe that there are charges already in the works against Jonathan? Well, that we don't know, unfortunately. We've not heard from authorities in Oregon. We've reached out multiple times. The only contact we've had with law enforcement is the Nye County Sheriff's Office in Nevada. They were the department that made contact with them over the weekend when Penny escaped from child welfare.

Right. So as of right now, no knowledge of any pending charges. Dr. Bethany Marshall with me, psychoanalyst, joining us at drbethanymarshall.com. Bethany, quickly, what is your advice to Penny and what is your advice to Jonathan? My advice to them is to find adults in their lives who believe them, who can provide a safe place for them,

who can validate what they've gone through. They've gone through a lot. They know the people who are safe versus the people who are not safe. The Oregon police said anybody helps them, they will be prosecuted. Well, I can tell you one person they wouldn't prosecute, and that's a lawyer. All right? Yes. This is how I see it. Anybody on the panel, jump in. Both parents want them safe. They don't want them, quote, out there. That's the number

one concern. My dad wants me to come home to sweep the floors for him. He does not want me safe. He wants me to come home so he can sit there and tell me how worthless I am and for me to just clean his house and cook his food. Number two, I believe Penny will not come home until she believes that Jonathan is not going to be prosecuted. And that will depend entirely on her testimony. Two, Lisa Herrick, isn't it true if, even though she's a minor, if Penny went willingly anywhere, that's not going to be kidnapped? Well, since she's underage, she doesn't have the right to run away. She's still a child. True.

I mean, she doesn't have the right to run away. I guess, let me rephrase my question, Lisa. Do you believe any jury would ever convict if Penny went willingly? Absolutely not. I can't see it. With her boyfriend. Right. Yeah. Because we're both running for our lives. We're not just runaways. We're not just missing people. We're not just your casual. We're running away because we love each other. I mean, if we were separated, we're separated. That's fine. But if one of us gets separated and then a week from now, one of us are dead, then that's totally different type of separation. That's never going to be able to see each other again because one of us are dead.

And then from us not fighting enough, running away, then we're going to be at guilt. One of us, Penny or I we're going to be at guilt. One of us, Penny or I, are going to be at guilt. One of us will be abused or dead or killed or harmed severely. That is exactly what we don't want to happen. I'm looking forward to how we can fix this. The only way that I can think of how to fix this now is for Penny and Jonathan to speak to a lawyer in that jurisdiction. They can give them some sort of guidance. You don't want them picked up by law enforcement and put into different juvenile correction facilities and a full-on adult facility with general population

for Jonathan. You need to work this out before that happens. They have to turn themselves in or that's what's going to happen. So what you need is a lawyer to guide you to protect them. I'm going to find you one. But for right now, I know that Penny and Jonathan are in touch with you, Wayne, one way or the other. You've got to help them see a lawyer. I'm going to help you find one. Penny, Jonathan, please consider what we have said. I know, Penny, you never want to go back home. I understand that. No one's saying you have to, but you cannot be on the run the rest of your life.

To Wayne, to Penny, and to Jonathan, our prayers and our guidance are what we are offering you now. We wait as this unfolds. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.