Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - RUGGED TERRAIN SEARCH FOR BABY EMMANUEL: TOT "DISAPPEARS" 9 DAYS BEFORE "KIDNAP?"

Episode Date: August 27, 2025

Only twelve days after Rebecca Haro reports her son's kidnapping and claims she is knocked out in a parking lot while changing the 15-month-old's diaper, both parents of Emmanuel Haro are charged with murder. They are also charged with making a false police report. However Rebecca, during a jailhouse interview, maintains her story she was knocked out and her 7-month-old son, Emmanuel, was abducted.  Jake Haro's lawyer, Vincent Hughes, says he doesn't know where the statement his client stopped cooperating with detectives came from because he continues to offer Haro to investigators. Hughes also says Jake Haro wants to cooperate with investigators. The father of seven-month-old Emmanuel Haro was pulled out of jail in his orange jumpsuit and taken to a remote area of Moreno Valley and was seen in the field with law enforcement. The department implies while Jake Haro was at the scene, he was not helping in the search. Rebecca Haro tells a reporter with the Southern California news group she was aware of Jake's previous child cruelty case, however he treats her and the all the kids great, claims "he's a good dad." Also tells the news group they married in 2021. Prosecutors in Riverside County are requesting Rebecca and Jake Haro be held on $1 million dollar bond Joining Nancy Grace today, Philip Dubé - Former Court-Appointed Counsel, Los Angeles County Public Defenders: Criminal & Constitutional Law, Forensics & Mental Health Advocacy, X: PhilipCDube, IG: PhilipDube, YouTube: PhilipDube3922 Caryn Stark -  Forensic Psychologist, renowned TV and Radio trauma expert and consultant, www.carynstark.com, Instagram: carynpsych, FB: Caryn Stark Private Practice  Steve Fischer- Missing Persons Private Investigator, Search & Rescue Specialist, & Owner of Search Investigations;  Steve has been on the scene for the last week, in search of Emmanuel, website: search investigations.org, Facebook: SearchInvestigations, X: @SF_Investigates,  Tom Rawlings - President of Child Welfare & Justice Transformation. Former juvenile court judge, state child advocate, and former Director of Georgia Division of Family and Children Services( DFACS). Board-certified Child Welfare Law Specialist (Child welfare and child protection consultant and attorney, equipping organizations in the US and abroad to protect children from abuse and exploitation) AUTHOR OF “Protecting Other People’s Children: 120 Days to Create a Strong Child Safety Policy,” website: CWJT.US. https://tomrawlings.substack.com, X @tcrawlings Joy Benedict - Reporter from CBS Los Angeles, Joy interviewed both Jake Haro and Rebecca Haro at the scene where Rebecca Haro claimed her son was taken from her car. Joy was in court for the Haro’s arraignment, website: cbsla.com, Instagram / Facebook / X: @joybenedict,  Dave Mack -   Crime Online Investigative Reporter See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A rugged terrain search goes on for baby Emmanuel just seven months old. And tonight, the chilling question emerges. Did the baby disappear nine days before the alleged kidnapped? When mommy was attacked in the parking lot, a sporting good store? Was the baby really missing nine days before that? I'm Nancy Grace.

This is crime stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Where is baby Emmanuel just seven months old? Where is this baby? They first got the call from someone of the Big Five, say, my baby has been taken, and she is frantic and upset. She got out of their pickup truck. When someone attacked her.

Where is seven-month-old baby Emmanuel questions swirling straight out, first of all, to Joy Benedict, joining us. The search going on, investigative reporter, CBS, L.A. Joy, tell me about the search as it's taking place. This has been a search that has been going on now since this little boy was reported missing. They have searched the home. They have searched nearby fields. They have searched along the highways. They have used dogs of varying.

degrees, searching for different things, life, death, you name it. They have searched two counties and they have still not found this little boy. Joy Benedict, what counties are they searching? Guys, you are seeing not only LE law enforcement fanning out, stopping traffic parts all along the side of this rugged terrain along the side of a mountain. There you see the dad of baby Emmanuel. You mentioned two counties are being searched tonight. What are they, Joy? They are San Bernardino County where Little Emanuel was first reported missing on August 14th and then Riverside County, which is the county in which the Horrors live. That video is from Riverside County, not too far from their home of the 60 freeway. Joining me an All-Star panel to make sense of what we know right now,

just so you know, Joy Benedict has been on the case since the baby first went missing. reportedly by mom. Let's see a shot of mom with a black eye, please. Mom says she was at the Big Five sporting goods store, getting a mouth guard for her other son. She got out of the vehicle to change baby Emmanuel's dipey and she was attacked from behind. I will let someone on the panel explain how she got a black eye from the front, but that is possible. That's possible. She says she was attacked from behind when she woke up from the attack. I'd like to find out about any head wounds that would have knocked her unconscious. But when she woke up from the attack, the baby is gone. No money is taken. There's no sex attack, no carjack, just the baby. There

are no cameras in the Big Five parking lot, no surveillance. This video is from our friends at KCal. No witnesses saw this. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. But back to the search that's happening right now. Steve Fisher is joining us, missing persons, private investigator, search and rescue specialist, owner of search investigations. You've been on the scene for the last week. What do you know? So the search has been headed up by San Bernardino's search and rescue team, and they've primarily been focused off the 60 freeway, which is where we saw the video of Jake.

with them. They've had a cadaver dog out there along with search teams that are ground searching and detectives that are searching. And this is an area that it's rolling hills, you know, brush that's two or three feet high with trees. It's a vast area. It's a lot of area to cover, but it's also an area that's fairly easy to search by air. Steve, tell me about the terrain and how the search for baby Emmanuel is being conducted. Ground searchers and cadaver dogs and air support. And this, this is rolling hills with three foot brush or so,

but the ground itself is rock hard. So this is an area that, you know, I don't think they're using ground penetrating radar or anything like that. This is going to be a, you know, a ground search operation. And it's not an extremely, from a search and rescue point of view, it's not an extremely difficult search area. Hmm. Now, I'm looking up the side of a mountain, and I would find that difficult to search.

Guys, you're seeing video from our friends over at KCal right now, and you're hearing Steve Fisher, who is an expert in search investigations. I saw where they were doing what was almost a shoulder-to-shoulder search. Why are shoulder-to-shoulder searches conducted? Well, so that increases the probability of detection. And so that means they could be looking for smaller pieces of evidentiary value, not just a manual, but it could be other things tied that, you know, could be even cell phones or whatever. Also, those line searches, which are the very tight formed ones, they were very close into the freeway. And so they didn't extend that out very far. They were using other search and rescue ground searchers that were doing more of what we call a hasty search.

And they were going further up into the hill. But the detective is very close kind of in that ravine that we're seeing on the screen. I want to follow up on a few things that Steve Fisher just told us. At this hour, the search for baby Emmanuel goes on. Baby Emmanuel, just seven months old, reportedly goes missing out of. a big five sporting goods parking lot there with his mother. So I find it very curious that he was quote, kidnapped by an unknown male that said one word, Ola. Mommy didn't get a look at him. Mommy didn't see him. Here, hear a threat, smell cigarettes, smell alcohol, smell pot, nothing. She heard

one word, Ola, and she wakes up in the baby's dead. And now Ellie is searching rugged terrain in the Moreno Valley. Now, curious, Dave Mack joining me, Crime Stories Investigated Reporter. Dave, did you hear Steve Fisher State some of the search was going along close to the freeway? What does that tell me? That tells me that they're looking to see if anything was thrown out of a vehicle. We've even had you and I, Dave Mack, bodies found beside the freeway. Okay. You were called Nicole. level, the little 13-year-old girl that was kidnapped, abducted by David Eisenhower, a valedictorian track star and his friend Natalie Keepers. Her body was found wiped down with

alcohol wipes on the side of the interstate. So that tells me they're also looking for something that could have been thrown out of a car on the side of the interstate or even God help us a baby's body on the side of the interstate. That's what that tells me that they're searching near the roadway. They are. And Nancy, you can see along the 60 freeway where all of the vehicles, all the squad cars, the sheriff's

deputies, all of them parked along this area and they're walking down this. The terrain is incredibly rugged. It's very steep right off the roadway. And if they were to have, God love them, I can't imagine what's going through their heads as they search. But if a body, a baby's body had been tossed, just discarded off the side, Nancy, it would not just land in a spot.

It would roll and could be underbrush where it couldn't be seen easily. That's why they're having to walk so close shoulder to shoulder as they search certain areas of this terrain. It's just horrible. You know, too, I'll get right back to the search everybody. This video for our friends at KCal on some of the drone video was taken by our guest Steve Fisher. Karen Stark is with me, a long time colleague and friend, forensic psychologist, well-known TV radio trauma expert, consultant at Karenstart.com. That's Karen with a C if you're trying to find her. Karen Stark, Dave Mack just brought up, a conjured up a horrible image.

I was about to launch into the importance of shoulder-to-shoulder surfer. searches. You and I covered one. The first one you and I covered, I don't know if you remember this, was Shandra Levy. Shandra Levy went missing, the Washington intern, and ultimately there were shoulder to shoulder searches of Rock Creek Park there in D.C. Nothing was found. But on later searches, her leggings were found. So shoulder to shoulder searches are when you're looking for, as Steve Fisher pointed out, you could be looking for leggings. You could be looking for a baby shoe.

You could be looking for a hair barrette of a missing child. You could be looking for anything that when everyone is dispersed, you may miss. But shoulder to shoulder, it's excruciating, it's laborious, it's time intensive, but that's what they're doing to find any clue, even just to show. or suck belonging to baby Emmanuel. But for your purposes, can you imagine these LA law enforcement and volunteers being told ahead of time, brace yourself in case you find a dead infant? I mean, when I was trying cases Karen, I would have nightmares of finding dead bodies

because I would be talking to witnesses all day long that found dead bodies. I'd actually dream about it. But this is happening for real. These L.E. and volunteers are looking at the prospect of nearly stepping on a dead infant. And we can't think of anything worse than that, right? Nancy, I'm sure everybody listening would agree. What is more horrific than seeing the baby dead under natural circumstances, let alone encountering one under these circumstances?

And yet it's incredibly important. and they know that to find these babies, and that's why they volunteer. But there is nothing worse, and they do live with trauma very often. Just as you said, you do, when you can think of the bodies, they are dealing in this instance with a tiny little baby, even hearing about what he did to his original baby promise, who was trauma, he just, she can't see, she can't walk. And when I read about that, I got so upset thinking of that a 10-week-old baby, being abused like that.

And this is a baby that is likely dead. This is something I don't understand. Let me ask Joy. Joy Benedict is joining us from CBS, L.A., who's on the story from the get-go. Joy, the baby goes missing. We're told in the parking lot of Big Five Seas. sporting goods. How far away is the Moreno Valley? It's probably about a 30 to 45 minute drive from where the baby went missing from, or was reported missing from, we should say.

But it is not too far from their home. So I'm trying to figure out how a baby goes missing, vanishes in a parking lot and now almost an hour away we're coming through rugged terrain this is how we were told the baby goes missing 70 miles east of Los Angeles in Ucaipa Rebecca Haro's stepson

needs a new mouthpiece for football she heads to a sporting good store with seven-month-old Emmanuel Rebecca Harrow realizes baby Emmanuel dirtied his diaper and she prepares to change his diaper before going into the store Rebecca Haro places baby Emmanuel next to his car seat to change

his diaper when she hears a man say, Ola. Before she can return the greeting, she has knocked unconscious. When she wakes up, baby Emanuel is gone. Rebecca Harrow races inside the Big Five and asks an employee if she has seen a baby or a person with a baby come into the store. 911 is called at 745. Where is seven-month-old baby Emmanuel? They have searched the home. They have searched nearby fields. They have searched along the highways. But when she woke up from the attack, The baby is gone. No money is taken.

There's no sex attack. No carjack. She heard one word, Ola, and she wakes up in the baby's debt. At this hour, the search for baby Emmanuel goes on. As we speak tonight for seven-month-old baby Emmanuel. And joining me right now, Dr. Thomas Coyne, Chief Medical Examiner, District 2, Medical Examiner's Office, State of Florida,

forensic pathologists, toxicologist, neuropologist, neuropower, pathologist. Dr. Coyne, thank you for being with us. I heard Joy Benedict and Steve Fisher state that in addition to shoulder to shoulder searches for baby Emmanuel in very rough terrain, cadaver dogs have been brought out. Cadaver dogs look only for human tissue from a deceased human. So my question is this. Dr. Coyne, the dogs are not looking for a live baby. How quickly after a child is killed would decomp begin? What is it so quickly after death that cadaver dogs can smell? Well, the process of decomposition starts immediately after we die. Once our immune system is basically shut down as our blood stopped circulating, all of that bacteria that's within

inside our internal cavities, our intestines, begins to digest us. And that process of called putrefaction produces a number of volatile chemicals as it begins to digest our blood, our body fat, and those are the chemicals, those organic chemicals that the dogs pick up, and those are what the dogs are actually trained on. These dogs will actually be trained on the scent of decomposing remains. various stages of decomposition, and they can pick up that sound, excuse me, that smell very readily. Dr. Coyne, I'm sure that you are used to a constant influxes stream of dead bodies, including children, babies.

Yeah, be at accidental, natural cause, undetermined, or homicide. But when I look at this baby's picture, control him, I'd like to see Baby Hero. I want to see Emmanuel when I look at baby Emmanuel he's just seven months old I just want to hold him I want to bring him home with me I want to feed him I want him to help get well

I want to see one picture of this baby with a smile just one I have combed through every photo I have of this baby and not one photo is this baby smiling not one I'm not the only one that's noticed on Twitter on Facebook, everywhere, Insta, everyone's saying, does the baby never smile?

Why? But Dr. Thomas Coyne, when I hear what you're saying about putrefication, and you say something about the body fluids start digesting the baby, and I look at this photo,

I don't know how you do it, everyday, Coim. It's hard. Those are the hardest cases that I have to deal with. Child abuse cases in particular, as a father myself, you have to get good at tucking your emotions inside and doing the job that's necessary so you can help bring justice to these poor kids. What were you saying about the body's fluids actually digest the body? Is that what you said? Yeah. Yeah. So what happens is, you know, our intestines

especially, they're lined with bacteria and that bacteria will literally begin to digest our tissues because now that we're dead, our own body's immune system isn't there to protect us. And so that bacteria can just move all throughout our body, digesting our tissues. And also as our tissues break down, enzymes within our own body tissues now can also aid in that process. So over time, especially if his body is outside, that process will proceed pretty rapidly. So within 30 minutes or so of a body dying and decomposition starting, there should be enough volatileized organic compounds that any dog can pick up that scent. Dr. Coyne, if I could just keep you for just a few more moments,

I want to talk to you about baby Emmanuel's sister. baby Immanuel's sister. Yes, he has a sister. This tiny little boy has a sister, Dr. Coyne, and the sister cannot speak. The sister cannot walk. The sister cannot see. Listen.

The sister of Emmanuel was so badly injured At just 10 weeks, she was left unable to see, talk, or walk. The little girl is being raised by her adoptive mother, who renamed the child Promise Faith. At just 10 weeks old, Promise had an acute fractured rib, healing fractures of six ribs, a skull fracture, a brain hemorrhage, swelling of the neck, healing fractured leg bone, and nutritional neglect. Caro and his former partner, Vanessa Avina, were both charged with children. child cruelty in 2018, to which Harrow pleaded guilty.

Joy Benedict joining us, investigative reporter, are you telling me that baby Emmanuel was living in the home with the man that did that to Emmanuel's sister? She can't see, she can't walk because of the severe beating. Her father did plead guilty to willful child cruelty because of that case. I am also told by his attorney who represented him at the time that he completed 55 weeks of parenting classes afterwards. And he was currently on probation for that case when maybe Emanuel was reported. Hold on. Okay. Have I gone to Crazy Land? Prime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Let me understand this. I'm looking at my notes again. At just 10 weeks old, Promise has an acute fractured rib. 10 weeks healing fractures of six ribs. That means he'd already beaten her to where he broke her ribs and they're now healing. A skull fracture, a brain hemorrhage, swelling of the neck, a fractured leg.

bone, nutritional neglect, that means starving. I'd have to go to law school to figure that out. Not only that, she cannot see, talk, or walk. Ever. Ever. And did you say Joy Benedict that he got parenting classes? He did. He served a term in jail.

And then he got parenting classes. and probation in that case. He had a co-defendant, so it wasn't just him. It was also the mother of that child. Obviously, they both custody. And it's just horrific. It's horrific to hear of the injuries to that real problem. 2018, uh, excuse me, but Jackie, am I wrong?

Isn't it just 2025 right now? So let's see, 18, subtracted it from 2025. So he's already out, he's had another baby, and now that baby is missing. So he gets parenting class, a short stint behind bars, and he's out. And now baby Emmanuel is missing. Okay, back to Dr. Thomas Coyne. Dr. Dr. Coyne, I know this is excruciating, and I've had to do this in front of the jury. And I could look over at them.

I hate to even look at them. because some of them would be wincing when they heard this, but could you explain what happened to promise faith? This missing baby's sister who was found in this horrible condition at just 10 weeks, 10 weeks. What happened to her, coined? Well, specifically abusive trauma. I mean, you know, the totality of her injuries, right, the fact that she has rib fractures, she has a fracture of her leg, she has a skull fracture and hemorrhage within her brain, that pattern right there, that distribution of injuries is characteristic of abusive trauma. And I say that because so often you'll hear parents try to explain this as a fall or I accidentally drop the child

or the child fell off the changing table. I'm sorry. I'm having a choking incident. A choking incident. Because that's exactly what he said. He said some BS about he was bathing her and she fell. Oh, hey, Coyne, wait a minute. Back to Benedict. Joy Benedict, you said he did a stint in jail? Joy, to be clear, he did 180 days, days in jail on on work release. Correct.

That's what he did. isn't that a little glossing over isn't that a little um putting perfume on the pig you said he did some jail time 180 days in jail on work release that's what he got joy i know it doesn't seem like a lot that's why i said it wasn't a lot of time that he spent in jail and then he got out he's on probation he's done 55 weeks he has an older child with his first wife this little girl that you're referring to is with his second wife. He has then have a third wife who's now accused

in this case. They have not one. Emmanuel is not the only child there. They have a second child, another little girl. Oh, my stars. Back to the shrink. Karen Stark. Why do these women keep taking up with him?

He beats children into being blind. Deaf. Can't walk. Why? I don't get it. He just keeps getting with women and they keep having babies and he keeps beating them. Nancy, it's called trauma bonding. It's when a woman is with a man who's abusive and they get intermittent reinforcement. There's no stronger reinforcement than that where they are abused and then their partner apologizes, gets them gifts. What did you say about intimate? What did you say about intimate?

Intermittent. That means sex to me. Intermittent, which means... Intermittent. Reinforcement. Which means that every so often they get wonderful gifts and apologies and recognition from their partner, which keeps them tied despite the abuse. It's a terrible pattern, and it happens to women.

all the time. Trauma bond. Okay, you know what, Karen Stark, you can talk to me that a little, little, little, little, all day, all day about trauma bonding. But Philip DeBay, that is a crock of BS. I don't know. They've had that legal term in your jurisdiction. Maybe they need it because you can smell it a mile away. Like somehow the mom's not responsible because she was getting a gift every other week, really. And the price for that gift is watching your child being beaten till it's literally blind? Oh, no. Mommy is not walking on this. Not if I have anything to do with this over my cold dead body. Is Mommy going to get away with Karen Stark's trauma bonding defense? She's going to get away with being an accessory after the fact.

And the good news for Rebecca Harrow is that in California, it tops out at three years. You only have to do half of it, even if it's a felony. So unfortunately, for the justices, for the public in the world at large, there really might not be any justice as to her. As to him, he is going down like the Hindenberg. Yeah, well, we'll see because the last time when he beat the baby into oblivion, and Dr. Coyne hasn't even described the injuries yet. Just wait till you hear that dubay. I want you to know that this mom, the other mom was in on it as well, okay, she stood by

and watched her baby girl getting beaten into basically paralysis. She can't walk, hear, speak, see. This mom knew what she was getting into, and more important, what she was subjecting her children to. She knew about the previous beating incident when she shacked up with this piece of crap. Listen. Rebecca and Jake Harrow married in 2021, and she was aware of his previous child cruelty case. Harrow claims they have a wonderful relationship, and he treats her 16-year-old child, as well as their two-year-old daughter and Emmanuel, very good, saying he's a good dad.

What? They refuse a polygraph. A witness says mom had that black eye before the attack in the Big Five parking lot. I'm yelling about this situation. I'm yelling about this baby gone and mommy and daddy won't take a polygraph. The poor little thing, if he's alive, who has him? Is he being fed?

Is he alive? Do we have a chance to save him? Could he be alive? We haven't found a body yet. Joining me an All-Star panel to make sense of what we know right now. But in case you're worried about us going easy on mommy, that's not happening. I want you to hear about daddy helping in the search. The father of seven-month-old Emmanuel was pulled out of jail in his orange jumpsuit and taken to a remote area of Moreno Valley.

Over a dozen vehicles from the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department parked alongside the stretch of Moreno Valley known as the Badlands. The steep terrain is searched with cadaver dogs but fail to locate the baby. The department stresses while Garo was at the scene, he was not helping in the search. Okay, your dad has to be pulled out of jail and comes to help look for you. But isn't it true, Dave Mack, that L.E., law enforcement said, oh, he's not helping us. We just brought him out here. He hasn't been helping us. That's exactly what they said, Nancy.

Yeah, I saw the pictures too. I saw him standing out there and I thought, what in the world are they doing with him? I'm guessing they put him out there to see his reaction as they looked in different areas because they flat out said he is not helping us. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I'll come back to you. Look, there he is.

He's just looking off in another direction. He's not talking to anybody. He was just standing there. And as our camera zoomed in, he started walking in another direction away from L.E. from our friends at K-Cal. Hey, let's see that again. Dave, Mack, I just wanted to point that out because I don't think you can see your monitor.

Go ahead. Yeah, he's actually not helping at all, Nancy. And, you know, the whole lie that has come from the harrows from both of them has the police department, all law enforcement from multiple agencies at their width end because they're having to try, they know what they're looking for, Nancy. This is not a family pet. This is a seven-month-old baby that they are looking in the,

the roughest terrain in the world for, and they bring out the baby's father, and he doesn't even bother to offer any kind of assistance, any kind of help. He just stands there. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Okay, Karen Stark. I'm about to go to Tom Rawlings, President Child Welfare and Justice. transformation, but Karen, you knew my dad, my soulmate. When I was a little girl, I had to get allergy shots twice a week, one in each arm.

And before we could even get back from the doctor, he would have been working the night shift. So as soon as I got out of school, he'd take me to the allergy doctor. Before we could even get home, I'd have like two goose eggs on my arm. I wouldn't be crying, I'd just be sitting there. But I remember looking over at my dad driving. he would be crying because he would look over and see my arms swollen up. And now I'm looking at this POC.

He's not even helping. And LE very rarely will make a comment like that. But because dad's lawyer said, oh, he's cooperating, he's helping. B.S. He's not helping. My dad would have been lying out there prone, screaming for help, doing anything he could.

This guy, he's doing nothing. Help me, Karen. He has no feelings. Nancy, we know that. This guy has an antisocial personality. He doesn't feel anything. This little baby, it could be a chair. It could be a doll.

It's not real to him. He's just standing there because he's not feeling anything. I know it's hard to believe, but that's what this personality type is like. Think about it. He's able to beat him a 10 week old so she can't see her walk. He has the capacity to do whatever he wants to do, be completely narcissistic and not care what they're doing, who they're looking for is his child. To him, he's not connected. It doesn't matter. Tom Rawlings joining me. President, Child Welfare and Justice Transformation, former juvenile court judge. child, advocate, author of protecting other people's children? Tom, I know some people think I'm being too hard on mommy, but I believe she knowingly subjected her children to this animal.

He is an animal. Absolutely. Nancy, not only did she subject him, his children, her future children. Remember, she had children with him after knowing that he took an innocent 10-week-old child and shook or squeezed the child almost to death, apparently lost his parental rights on that. The only punishment he got was some time in jail and parenting classes. When Rebecca Harrow and Jake Harrow had a child together, that child should have been immediately removed from their custody, because he was not competent to raise a child.

Instead, we now have another situation where apparently he's done it again. I don't like what you just said, Rawlings, not competent to raise a child. You know, ding-dongs have children all the time, and they love the children and take care of the children. You don't have to have a PhD or be a former judge like yourself to be a loving parent. You don't have to be smart. You just have to care about the baby. I think it's far from not competent.

I think that he is violent and hateful. And frankly, I know the TV world hates this word. He's evil. He's the devil. Are you sitting down, Tom Rawlings, because you may need to lay down for this. Listen to this. Jackie dug this up for me. His former partners and spouses include, wait for it, everybody.

Isabelle Gonzalez, ex-wife, filed domestic violence protective order against him, also requesting protection for son Eli, so he was obviously abusing and beaten on Eli. Vanessa Avina 2018, they were both charged with felony child cruelty regarding what happened to the little baby girl I told you about. Rebecca Harrow, they are charged now with the murder of baby Emmanuel. So this is the third instance that we know of him, of him beating on. on and forever paralyzing one child, and now baby Emmanuel is missing, and police believe the baby is dead. And somebody wants me, DuBaye wants me to go easy on the mom in this case?

What about it, Rawlings? Absolutely not. When you go into a situation, when you have a child or the man, you know, to be evil and violent like this man and then you apparently cover up for the bad things he's done to your child and you act like you create the same well my child was kidnapped well you know this is this is called being part of the problem and she needs to suffer significant punishment as well she cannot sit there and act like she is the victim i'm sorry this it takes it took two of them to create this child it apparently took two of them to harm this child and then deceived the public in law enforcement

about what one of them or both of them had done. Well, Philip DuBay, in your zealous defense of Mommy, I just want to remind you that she knew about the injuries to the baby sister. Dr. Coyne, could you explain those injuries to Dubay before he launches his defense? Sure. I mean, they reported at the hospital that she had a fracture of her skull. She also had hemorrhage within her brain and hemorrhage within the retina of both eyes. She also had fractures to the back of her ribs, both sides, as well as a fracture of her right lower leg bone. and so this is consistent with abuse of trauma. It's almost similar to grabbing a child by the leg and slamming them into something where you have impact trauma of the skull, causing the fracture,

the bleeding within the brain as well as within the eyes, and then sort of a twisting type injury of the leg, most likely when grabbing the child and using that appendage to sort of strike the child into something. Dr. Coyne explained to me how a baby. After a beating, loses sight, hearing, and the ability to walk. Sure. Most likely due to the trauma to the brain and head. So, for instance, there was significant injury to the eye.

So in other words, when you strike a child against something, the forces can actually tear or separate the layers of the retina of the eyes so that you can have direct injury to the eyes themselves. But you can also severely image the nerves, the optic nerves that allow us to see that, that allow the eyes to communicate with the brain. In addition, the brain trauma itself, so you know our ability to walk, motor control is through our brain and spinal cord. And so this child also had cervical neck injury.

So if there was injury to the nerves that travel to the spinal cord, injury to the parts of our brain that control our ability to move, then that can certainly prevent that child from walking or having difficulty walking as that child gets older. The same thing, our ears, so sound is produced in our ear or as received from our ears, it's our brain that allows us to hear. It's the auditory processing centers in our brain.

So if there was significant damage to the brain, especially in the temporal regions, which is right behind our ears, then that could also prevent that child from being able to hear. In the Southern California news group, Rebecca Harrow denies she went to the Big Five in UKIPA days before she reported the kidnapping and told employees her car had been burglarized in the parking lot and asked if the business had surveillance cameras. The Sheriff's Department has yet to address the claims.

Joy Benedict, is that true? Did employees at Big Five state that the mother, Rebecca Harrow, was there days a head of the kidnap of baby Emmanuel, claiming she had been burglarized, her car had been burglarized, and asking were there surveillance videos in the parking lot? There's a lot of people, a lot of things in their community about what happened and whether the Haros had been there or at another business or whether they were asking about security cameras. I did not hear that directly from any employee, a big five, but I know a lot of people are spreading

those types of conversations. spreading conversations. I call them witnesses, Philip DeBay. If there is a witness stating that Mommy, Rebecca Harrow was there at the Big Five days before the baby goes missing asking, is there surveillance video in the parking lot? Oh, it's over. Put a fork in her. It's done. She was planning a way to devise a fake kidnap of the baby and the baby was already gone or dead. If everything that she did occurred after the fact, after her quote-unquote husband murdered that child, it does not make her complicit. And moreover, any foreknowledge that she had of the other child is not imputed to her. There is no way for her ahead of time to have had advanced knowledge of the other baby's medical chart. The police reports from the other case to say that she is complicit in this. Worst case scenario, she is an accessory after the fact trying to protect. protect him any way she can, likely out of fear, frankly.

She's probably terrified that if she comes forward and exposes him in any way that she's next. Okay. So she put her own skin before saving her baby. Now, isn't it true? And this is a yes, no, if that's possible, do you bay? Isn't it true that under the law, a jury can take into account the defendant's actions before, during, and after the murder? Yes.

According to these witnesses, if in fact they exist, the mom came to the Big Five sporting goods store trying to case the joint and determine if there were surveillance cameras in the parking lot. And what a coincidence a few days later, she's back in the same parking lot, signs surveillance cameras and gets attacked again in the parking lot. But this time they don't just burglarize her car. They take the baby and blame some of them. guy, nobody sees that she can only identify by one word. Ola. Okay. You save

all that for the jury. Okay? I'd just be mad if you didn't. But isn't it true regardless of what Dubay says about accessory after the fact is the only thing mommy can be charged with? Dave Mack,

what are the parents charged with as of tonight? As of right? now. Rebecca Harrow has been charged with first degree murder and Jake Harrow is charged with malice murder. Question to Steve Fisher. We have not found a body. They could have given the baby away. They could have sold the baby. They could have abandoned the baby somewhere in another state. I don't know. What could L.E. have that tells them the baby is dead. example, in the Jennifer Deelos, missing Connecticut

Mama 5 case, we've never found her body. But there was such a copious amount of blood in the garage where she had just come home from drop off at school. They could tell there's so much blood she had to be dead. So what could they have Steve Fisher in this case to embolden them, to bring murder charges without a body? And they were quick to do that. as well, I'd say. You know, blood, we've heard that there's possible blood evidence in the house.

Personally, they're processing the scene. I was there. I saw them sifting, you know, through trash, and they seem to be focused on one particular room in the house. They could have a confession from Jake, you know, that they, you know, whether it's true or not, we don't know who is that I have a body, but they could, you know, be believing that. And or they, okay, there's not a confession.

Okay, we can rule that out. There's not a confession. by anybody. So what could they have with fiscal evidence? They could, you know, they blood from, if they have blood from the house, they processed it from the view, they seized the vehicle. There could be a forensic material in that vehicle. You know, there could be, they seize their cell phones. You know, who knows what could have been in the erased, you know,

folders on that, which celebrate can pull out. There could be, you know, other digital, you know, friends that they could be talking about conducting a story, you know. I'll tell you, there's a reason that they are searching the Marino Valley. Philip Dubay, they had a search warrant, and the lawyer had them hand over their devices. Dubay, they, Ellie, believed the baby is dead. I don't know that yet. But they could have the nav system from the car, like in Alex Mardog's case, that proved he was

at the crime scene at the time. with the murders. They could have digital forensic evidence, like in Brian Koberger, where he stalked the victims 20 plus times and then kept going back to the scene. We know that dad's car has been impounded. There could be all sorts of evidence in there. And on their phones, such as in the case of Madeline Soto, where the no-account-living boyfriend murdered her after years of sex abuse on his girlfriend's little girl. He had videos of the little girl

being abused on his phone. There's no telling what they were saying to each other when they were getting rid of the seven-month-old baby. It could be any number of things. Of course it could. But my guess is that they have bloodhound evidence, so

cadaver dogs. Whatever reason or somehow the dogs picked up on cadaverine, putrazine, which obviously detects the presence of decomposing human flesh. Moreover, it's very possible, too, that there is a digital blueprint, putting them out in those sort of marshy, rough terrain areas where they believe the baby may have jumped.

And it's possible, too, that the police interrogation with Jake, that they use what I call that manipulative law enforcement reconstruction technique where they try to give him the opportunity to get off his chest. What if anything happened so he can give his version? And what it does is that they lure him out to the dumping site in the hopes that they can get a visceral response out of him and point. Are you suggesting there's something wrong with that? Didn't the Supreme Court, the U.S. Supreme Court rule on that? It was called the Christian burial case, euphemistically, where the killer was lured to a scene and made to feel so guilty he blurted out where the body was. There's absolutely nothing wrong.

with that? I don't know why you're saying it like that. No, it's completely lawful, but it was unsuccessful here. He stood his ground and apparently he's not able to point them in that direction or refuse to do it. Oh, well, aren't you proud of him? He stood his ground and didn't help find his baby. In the last hours, a press conference regarding baby Emmanuel from local LA law enforcement. Dave Mack, what happened? As investigators look for the body of seven-month-old Emmanuel Harrow, his father, convicted felon, Jake Harrow, finally comes clean with detectives, telling them he rolled over in bed and accidentally killed the infant. Knowing they're only getting a partial confession, investigators put an undercover officer

in the cell with Harrow to be his new best friend. And in short order, Haro tells his new celly he killed his son and put his body in a trash can in their home. As we wait for justice to unfold in the search for baby Emmanuel, we remember an American hero, Trooper James Monda, NY State Police Department, killed in the line of duty after 18 years of service, leaving behind a grieving fiancé, Teresa. American hero, Trooper James Monda. Thank you to our guest tonight,

but especially to you for being with us tonight and every night. Nobody ever said crime is pretty crime is not entertainment there is a chance we can find this baby alive

if you know or think you know anything about baby Emmanuel please call 909387 831313 repeat 909 387-87

8.3 and 1-3. Nancy Grace, signing off. Goodbye, friend. Thank you. This is an I-heart podcast. Thank you.