Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Safe In Your Own Home | JUSTICE NATION: CRIME STOPS HERE

Episode Date: February 8, 2025

Safety starts at home! Experts who have dedicated their lives to protecting children share the secrets to protecting your home and stopping child abductions and crimes in the home before they happen.  Presented with limited commercial interruption thanks to Lifelock. Join now and save up to 40% your first year. Call1-800-LifeLock and use promo code NANCY or go to LifeLock.com/NANCY for 40% off. Terms apply. In Lesson #1, Safe In Your Own Home, Nancy Grace sits down with Klaas Kids founder Marc Klaas to discuss the night his daughter Polly was abducted from her home. What went wrong and what can be learned from Polly’s story? Following the emotional interview, a panel of experts analyze cases of child abduction, missing people, and crimes in the home and share the secrets to protecting your home and stopping crime before it happens.   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hi guys, Nancy Grace here. Welcome to Justice Nation Crime Stops Here. This online education course is designed to help you protect what you love the most, your children and your loved ones from crime. We're making it available for free for the first time with limited commercial interruptions thanks to our friends at LifeLock. During tax season, your sensitive info does a lot of traveling to places you cannot control, stopping off at payroll, your accountant or tax preparer, and countless other data centers on its way to the IRS. Any of them can expose you to identity theft because they have all the information on your W-2. Just the ticket for criminals to steal your identity. No wonder the IRS reported tax fraud due to identity theft went up 20% last year.

Enter LifeLock. They monitor millions of data points per second and alert you to threats you could miss. If your identity is stolen, LifeLock's U.S.-based restoration specialist will fix it, backed by the million-dollar protection package. And restoration is guaranteed or your money back. Don't let identity thieves take you for a ride. Get LifeLock protection for tax season and beyond. Join now and save up to 40% your first year. Call 1-800-LIFELOCK and use promo code NANCY or go to lifelock.com slash NANCY for 40% off. Terms apply. Thank you, Lifelock, for making this possible and for being our partner. Welcome to Session One. Thank you for being with us. Session One,

safe in your own home. When I come home, the very first thing I want to hear is the alarm going off because I want to know it's been on since I've been gone. I have prosecuted thousands of cases of home burglaries that went wrong. I have walked through crime scenes that seemingly started as a burglary that ended in a violent attack or worse. The old catchphrase, there's no place like home. Your home. Your home. Your home is like a jewelry box. And you open it up and inside that box, the jewel. Your children.

I have devoted my life to protecting people from violent crimes, specifically children, and now my own children. And I know I won't get a second chance. Today, we are joined by experts who have dedicated their lives to finding missing children, to reuniting families, and most important, sharing the secrets to protect your home and stop child abductions before they happen. Let us share with you what we have learned. So so With me here in our home is a hero, a personal hero, an icon, a warrior. You know him, I'm sure. Mark Klass. Mark is the founder of Klass Kids and has devoted his life to finding missing children at great,

great personal expense. You know, I try to tell your story sometimes and I can't do it justice. So I have you here and I want you to tell your story and why you devoted your whole life to seeking justice. Well, first of all, thanks for having me, Nancy. I truly appreciate it. And it's nice to be with you. As you know, my story began on October 1st, 1993. You know what? I've never been able to hear you tell this without getting upset. I just, in my mind, I see Polly in the picture, and I think of her that way. Just beautiful, with that smile, those beautiful eyes. That's how I think of her.

And, you know, your strength inspires so many people. Okay, I'll try not to interrupt again. She lived in a home in Petaluma, California with her mother and her half-sister. And she was hosting a slumber party on a Friday night, the 1st of October, with two of her girlfriends. And at about 10.30 in the evening, as the girls were preparing to get ready for bed, Polly opened her bedroom door and he was standing there with a butcher knife and he threatened to slit their throats if they made a noise. Now, the two girls that were with Polly thought it was a joke. They thought that

Polly was just trying to demonstrate her acting chops until he gagged them and bound them and put the pillowcases over their heads. That's when they realized something terrible was happening. And after he did that, he pulled Polly up and disappeared into the night. He told the girls to count to a thousand and that Polly would be back and had told them that it was only about the money. Now, this is a part of the story that I haven't really told before, because after a few minutes, the two girls did everything they could to extricate themselves. lines and they went into the next bedroom which was separated by a Jack and Jill bathroom and woke up Polly's mom who slept through the entire ordeal and told her what had happened. At this point one of the girls Jillian Pelham went to find Polly and she thought she would be in the living room and she wasn't in the living room. And the back door was open. And she looked up and there was nothing.

She looked the other way and there was nothing. And then a chill went up her spine because she realized that it wasn't a robbery, that in fact it was a kidnapping. And she came back into Polly's bedroom and Polly's mom was on the phone with 911 and she said, she's not here. They took her. And that was the beginning of a 65 day ordeal that ended on the 4th of December when a homeowner realized that the crime scene was on her extensive property and brought the sheriff in, they determined that there had been an incident the night that Polly was kidnapped. They ran a background on the individual who was involved in that incident, realized that he was a twice convicted kidnapperpper and were then able to put the story together, go and arrest him, and he currently resides on death row.

What he had done that night is he had kidnapped her and he murdered her within about a two-hour window. And we found her remains off the side of a freeway under a piece of plywood and some other rubbish. And it shouldn't have happened. I mean, for so many reasons, what happened to her shouldn't have happened. I'm trying to digest everything you just said and i've heard you tell the story of polly before but and i've told you this so often when people ask me about my fiance's murder i'm used to telling it and i tell the

story almost robotically because i don't really want to think about it. I want to answer their question and not think about it anymore. Because, you know, now that I have the twins, if I go to that place of thinking about case murder, the twins do not, my children do not deserve a sad or depressed or upset mother. They need a happy and encouraging mom. So I will, you know, go through it robotically. I've heard you tell the story of Polly being kidnapped before. But I noticed just then when you were telling that story,

your hand started shaking. That tells me it is not robotic, even all of these years later. I don't know how you can even tell that story. When I decided shortly after all was concluded and we had put Polly to rest, that I was going to continue to pursue a child safety agenda and that I was going to do it in her name for her legacy. I knew that, well, I had no idea how long I would be able to do it or what kind of success there would be, but I knew that I would have to retell that story. And I'd have to retell that story probably on a very regular basis. And, and Jesus, it's so hard. I mean, it... I mean, I have never, ever heard you pause. I have never seen you shed a tear.

And just then, when I saw your hands shaking as you were talking about it, that's the first time I have ever seen you show emotion in this battle that you have taken on in Polly's name. I'm trying to crystallize everything you said and what can I learn from it. I want to go back to some facts. Sure. Was this a home or an apartment? It was a home.

It was a home. It was a single family dwelling. With a front yard and a backyard? A front yard and a backyard, actually with a little granny unit right behind it. That's interesting about the granny unit, because I've always been concerned about outhouses or the curtilage of your home, as it is called in the law, a playhouse, a shed, a storage pod or whatever, because it's a perfect place for someone to hide and watch your house. So you had a granny house and was there a burglar alarm? No. But the doors were locked. No. The doors were not locked. No. I did not know that. The doors, the back door was not locked and oftentimes was not locked.

Polly opened her bedroom door. Bedroom door. She opened her bedroom door into the living room and he was standing there. And we know that he came in through the back because the person living in the granny unit witnessed him enter the house. But he said at trial and through interrogation that he believed that that individual belonged in the house because he moved with such a sense of purpose. Do you think that Richard Allen Davis, the perpetrator that took Polly, had been spying on your home or spying on Polly. Absolutely. Why do you say that? He stalked her.

We know he stalked her because it all came out of trial. At least six people came and took the stand and made the case that he started coming to Petaluma as a way station to visit his sister. And he became more and more comfortable with it, And he started to enclose around Polly's house. So over the course of about six weeks, he started to spend more and more time in Petaluma. And he started to bring himself closer and closer and closer to her house, almost as if he were spinning a web. When did he first see Polly? We don't know when he first saw Polly. We don't know if it was that day or if it was six weeks before. We don't know when he first saw Polly. We don't know if it was that day or if it was six

weeks before. We don't know that because we can't trust what he would say. You're right. I mean, what he said, what he said is that it was all a big misunderstanding that he was high on pot and beer. And the next thing he knew she was there, but we know that that's not the truth. We absolutely know that he stalked her. He identified her. And as I said before, what can a 12-year-old girl do against a determined predator? With a weapon. With a weapon. And it turns out there was nothing that she could really do with that.

I don't say that. No. What she could have done and what she should have done is not go. Scream and not go with him. Absolutely is what she should have done is not go. Scream and not go with him. Absolutely is what she should have done. Never should a child leave that point. You know what's interesting is, and I've said this so many times, I've said, isn't it odd that the parents didn't hear anything? Isn't that freakishly unusual? It's not. It is not. There

have been times, Mark, when I would wake up at night and Lucy, usually Lucy, sometimes John David, will be standing right there doing this to me. And I consider myself a very light sleeper. I didn't hear a thing. It happens. Your former wife didn't hear a thing. No. Nothing. No. And it's almost as if you kind of blame the sleeping person.

It's not their fault. No. So he came in an unlocked door, likely unlocked door, and walked straight in and was waiting at her bedroom. You had never had contact with him at all. Never. None whatsoever. Absolutely no idea who this individual was.

And it's your belief he had been stalking her. It's not my belief. It was proven in court. You're right. With six witnesses, correct? With six different witnesses. And each one of those individuals, interestingly enough, knew that he didn't belong there. And the female witnesses would cross the street when he came because they were put off either by his prison tattoos, by his surly demeanor, by his dead eyes, or by his public drinking. Every last one of those individuals, but not one of those individuals, ever informed law enforcement, which would have given them probable cause to approach him and say, who are you?

Where did the six witnesses spot him in relation to Polly's home? All within three block radius. Just walking around the neighborhood? Yeah. Yeah, just be in there. The last one, prior to the abduction, noticed him in a park diagonally across the corner from Polly's. Oh, the Lord would have in a park. In a park, looking back towards Polly's house, sitting with who turned out to be his sister, a woman who turned out to be his sister, both drinking out of a brown paper bag. And a week later, she was gone.

And you know what's interesting about that neighborhood? That was a nice neighborhood. It was all pretty good. And you would not expect to see vagrants sitting in the neighborhood drinking booze out of a paper bag. Here's the problem. Right there. Here's the problem.

There were two parks within close proximity. One of those parks allowed public drinking. So, and it was right across the street from the Greyhound station, which is how he was originally getting there. So he would go to the Greyhound station. He would see vagrants drinking in that park and ultimately joined those vagrants, ultimately became comfortable in that venue. And then unfortunately unfortunately, the rest is tragic history. What did police do immediately when Polly goes missing? Well, the very first police officer on the scene obviously contacted as many people as he possibly could.

They put out an all-points bulletin. And the all-points bulletin, unfortunately, said this information is not for press release. And the All Points Bulletin, unfortunately, said this information is not for press release. And as a result of that, dispatchers at the various jurisdictions did not relay the information that there had just been a kidnapping to deputies in the cars because they thought the press might be monitoring those radio frequencies. Therefore, when that incident that I mentioned earlier occurred, about an hour after Paulie was kidnapped, there were two deputies present who were right there with the perpetrator and instead of pursuing who he was and why he was on a private country road at midnight, helped him pull his vehicle out of a ditch, which is why he didn't leave on his own, and sent him along on his way within an hour of Pauly being kidnapped.

I didn't know this part of the story. They had him before I was even notified that Pauly had been kidnapped. They had him, and he said vile things. He was drinking beer in front of them. He had threatened somebody on that property a few minutes earlier. He had threatened the babysitter that was leaving. And no, they let him go. Mark, how did you find out Polly was missing? I got a call from the estranged stepfather who told me, number one, first he told my wife, he told Violet. She didn't want to listen.

She gave the phone to me. He told me what had happened. And he said, don't come up to Petaluma. The police don't want to distract father trampling evidence. So I did two things. Number one, I called Petaluma police to confirm that this actually had occurred. And then I called Polly's mother to confirm that it actually had occurred. And then I called Polly's mother to confirm that it actually had occurred. And then I called the FBI. I called the FBI because something in my

mind said Lindbergh, the Lindbergh baby in the FBI. And it turns out that it was probably the smartest thing that I did during that entire ordeal because they came in and they brought all of their vast resources, which ultimately, I think, helped to solve the case. Mark, when a child goes missing, if you could relay what the parents need to do immediately, what's the first thing they need to do? The very first thing they need to do is confirm that the child actually is not in the house. And you can do that in a variety of ways. Like Domine Ramsey, where they forgot to look in a room?

Sure, sure. You check closets, you check under the couch, you check any place a child may be hiding. Then you contact 911. No question about it. You have to call 911 and you have to give them as detailed a description of what happened, to the best of your knowledge, that you can. What does the child look like? What was the child wearing? Does the child have any distinguishing marks that are obviously visible? Those kinds of things. You need to contact every other local law enforcement agency and let them know. Don't depend on anybody else to do it. And then you should call the FBI.

Then you should call media assignment desks. Not that they're going to give you an interview, but that they know that you're there. And they know that if this turns into something, that you're available to talk about your child, that you're there to advocate for your missing child, because nobody can do that better than the parent themselves. Then I think it's very important to engage social media, something that we didn't have available. You know, Polly was the first missing child on the internet. There was no social media at that time. But now, well, here, let me give you an example. When Polly disappeared, we, on the day after she disappeared, we acquired a mailing list. And then we started reproducing her flyer. That was on the third day after.

On the fourth day after, we started putting the mailing, we started putting the flyers into envelopes and addressing the envelopes. On the fifth day after, somebody mortgaged their house so we could buy stamps so that we could send these things out to places like hospitals, homeless shelters, law enforcement agencies. On the eighth day, those flyers started arriving at their destinations. Now, you can go onto Facebook and you can create a missing page for your child in 10 minutes. You can load up as many photos as you want. You can load up video. You can link articles. You can engage yourself with missing person communities and do so much more for absolutely no money at all than we were able to do over the course of eight days for many, many thousands of dollars.

Not just the money, Mark, but the time. Well, the time. The time's the critical thing. Critical, crucial. And why is that? That's because, Nancy, within 74% of them will be dead within the first three hours. There is absolutely no time to waste, and it's something that absolutely everybody understands. That's why you have to engage immediately.

Immediately. And you have to engage as many people as you possibly can, people that can make a difference. You do it immediately, because now you have things like the Amber Alert, which didn't exist back in those days. So an APB would never go out again, not in this modern era that says this information

is not for press release, because they know. They know that your best chance of recovering that child is to find the individual that took that child and to use that information to hopefully bring it home and turn in absolutely everybody. Everybody becomes the eyes and ears of law enforcement at that point. Truckers on the road, people driving in their cars, people at home, everybody. Do you hear something? Do you see something? Do you know something that's going to make a difference in this child's life? With us here in our home is Mark Klass, as I always say, Polly's dad, who has devoted his life to finding missing people, specifically children, and rescuing them. What he knows, what he has learned, what he has lived through can't be fit into a to-do list or a checklist.

It's really a way of life that you adopt to save your children. It's tax season, and by now I know we're all a little tired of numbers, but here's an important number you need to hear. $16.5 billion. That's how much money in refunds the IRS flagged for possible identity fraud last year. Here's another number, 20%. That's the overall increase in identity theft-related tax fraud in 2024 alone. But it's not all bad news. Here's a good number, 100 million. That's how many data points LifeLock monitors every single second. If your identity is stolen, LifeLock's U.S.-based restoration specialists will fix it. Backed by another good number, the Million Dollar Protection Package. In fact, restoration is guaranteed or your money back.

Don't face identity theft and financial losses alone. There's strength in numbers with LifeLock Identity Theft Protection for tax season andock.com slash NANCY for 40% off. Terms apply. Thank you, LifeLock, for being our partner. Can I ask you a question about Polly? Because in my mind, Polly is so much more now than just a little girl. Polly symbolizes everything good in little girls and boys. And it has galvanized your story. Polly's story has galvanized the crime-fighting community in a way. I don't know if you see it in a different way,

but in a way you may not understand. Polly Class is a name that is on all of our minds. But I've never learned what Polly was like as a child. I've never known that. Well, I do understand what you're saying. And I know that she was the arbiter of a lot of change. But Polly was a little girl. I mean, like your little girl, just a beautiful little kid who was happy and full of life. She loved performing arts. She was a wonderful little actress. And that's why her friends thought that she was just trying to

demonstrate her acting chops when, in fact, she was being kidnapped by this guy. She was a little musician. She played the clarinet and the piano. And she was at a point in her life at 12 years old, close to 13, where she was starting to realize her own potential and understand that she could be an individual with her own thoughts and her own direction in life. And that was the place where she was at. The year before, I had taught her how to swim and she was turning into a wonderful little swimmer. We were, at that time, playing baseball. She wanted to play ball with the boys. So we were shagging balls together and moving in this direction so that she could realize her potential as an individual and move forward in life.

She loved to sing. She was happy. She was sweet. She was pretty. And she was the love of my life. Thank you so much for being with us here in our home. Joining me now, in addition to my longtime friend and colleague Mark Klass, special guest Francie Hakes, the first national coordinator of child exploitation, prevention, and interdiction for the entire

country. Also with me, investigative journalist Marlena Schiavo. Ladies, thank you for being with us. And, you know, I know you heard Mark's story, Polly's story, and what we can take from that and how we can use that knowledge. But I want to address the case of nine-year-old Jessica Lunsford. Now, I got to know Jesse's father, Mark, and I can still remember him. He drove up on a motorcycle. Remember, he always drove his motorcycle. And I was on location. Mar, he always drove his motorcycle. And I was on location.

Marlena, you remember that. And he got off the motorcycle. We weren't even introduced. And he started crying, just crying. And, I mean, full-on crying about Jesse, Jessica. And I always called her the girl in the pink hat because of that beautiful photo of her wearing the pink hat. And that's how I think of her. You know, Marlena, you and I were on location in the field

at the search area. That's a story that's hard to forget. Refresh our recollections regarding how Jessica was taken. How did she get taken out of the home? Well, the whole family went to sleep that night, Nancy, like any other family. And when the morning came, Jesse was no longer in her room. And they lived in a very small single dwelling unit. It was very small. And I couldn't imagine how nobody heard anything. So they all go to sleep.

Who was in the home? It was Jesse's father, her grandparents, and I believe her little brother. You know, I had forgotten the grandparents were there too. And same as with Polly, nobody heard a thing. Nobody heard a thing. So immediately they, they launched a search. This search goes on for three full weeks, Nancy, with no good leads. And then an arrest happens all the way up in Savannah, Georgia of a guy named John Evander Cooey, which seems unrelated because it's in Georgia. But it turns out he was living in the same neighborhood as Jesse Lunsford when she went

missing. So they brought him in when they brought him in on an arrest warrant for drugs. They also questioned him about the night that Jesse went missing. They let him go. They let him go they let him go but really at that time they had no reason to connect him here he is with drugs in savannah georgia and jesse jessica goes missing all the way back at homo sasa florida so they really didn't have a reason to connect him well they asked him about his residence there and he said he was just staying with a relative. So then they got permission from that relative to search the home. And it was at that point where they found enough evidence to make an arrest. Now, the thing about the home, it's a small home, very small home, and it's a low crime area. And it's a very close community, you know, at first people typically look at the family because the dad's there. Maybe the mom's there. The grandparents are there. They didn't hear a

thing. And that's kind of hard for people on the outside looking in to accept. So you look naturally at the man in the home. You were not in the home. You were at your home when Polly went missing with her bio mom. But that's where they first start. The family was pretty much cleared just like that in the case of Jessica Lunsford, as they should have been. And then the police were basically with no clues. So how did somebody get into that home? How did they get her?

Was she in the same room with the little brother? No. And what happened was, and unlike some other cases, they got a full confession from John Cooey. And he explained and filled in all the holes. At about 3 a.m. I mean, if he's to be trusted. But let's just take his story with a box of salt and move forward. Right. What does he say? He says at 3 a.m. he enters the home through an unlocked door. And he said he was just there to burglarize the place. But then he saw Jessica and acted on impulse.

I don't buy that because I have dealt with 10,000 burglars. There's burglars and there are people that attack other people. And in this case, you don't go in to commit a burglary and go, there's a little girl. I think I'll take her and molest her and kill her. No, that's not the same thing. And you had a criminal history. When a burglar comes in, now you may disagree and if so, jump in. When a burglar comes in, now you may disagree, and if so, jump in. When a burglar comes in to burglarize and they see a person, they go, oh, and they leave. They leave. There's plenty of houses to steal the DVD player.

Well, burglars don't become sex offenders because they see a child. No. He had been staying, as you pointed out, Marlena, with relatives, as I recall, kind of catty-cornered to Jessica Lunsford's home, 65 yards, 65 yards. And you know, every time she came out in that yard to play or ride her bike or play with her little brother, he was staring right at her. That is why he went into that home, Marlena. And he's a registered sex offender, by the way. And he said that he did see her playing in the yard and he thought she was about six years old. Not really sure why he gave that information. But yes, you're right, Nancy.

He went in specifically for her and he brought her back to the home where you know what's similar right here is that Polly was stalked and watched by her killer Jessica Lunsford was stalked and watched this guy was out of town but visiting the area Cooey who murdered Jesse Lunsford the girl girl in the pink hat, was living there with a relative. Stay, as they said. Stay. You know what else is similar? In Polly's case, he said, don't scream, don't scream, and no one did. In Jesse's case, he said, don't say anything, and she didn't. Which is the same thing the perp said in Elizabeth Smart.

Don't say anything or I'll kill your little sister. I'll hurt your friends. Don't make a sound. Was it ever confirmed that the door was unlocked? It was confirmed. Actually, the front door was unlocked and then there was a back screened in porch which had a slash. So he must have, well, we don't know and then there was a back screened-in porch, which had a slash. So he must have, well, we don't know, but there was a slash, and then the door that led to that screened-in porch was also unlocked.

Here's the thing. You have to consider the source when Cooey says what happened. But if the family's confirming they had the door unlocked, then it was unlocked. At least he was telling the truth about that much. And I don't want to come down too hard on the family, Mark Klass, because they had the door unlocked. But I guarantee you if that door had been locked, he wouldn't have gotten in that night anyway. Yeah, that's exactly right. And I think that's a big takeaway, isn't it?

It's so simple. right. And I think that's a big takeaway, isn't it? That regardless of who you are or where you are, you're vulnerable and you should lock your doors and you should lock your windows and you should have good deadbolts and you should have good latches on the windows. And if you do that, he's not going to get into the house, certainly not without making a lot of noise and letting people know. And again, I don't want to trash the parents. I don't want to drag the parents through the mud. I don't want to attack them. I want to learn from what happened. That's what I want to do. There's just no doubt that Cooey would have done what happened in Polly's case. Some measure of pre-surveillance. This was a planned crime. You don't go into an occupied home where parents are unless you have a relatively secure knowledge that you're going to be able to

get in and out. These people don't want to get caught. They want to get in and get out. So I don't doubt at all that he would have planned it, maybe tested the doors ahead of time other nights to see what was the level of security at this home. And he would have understood it was an easy in for him. He went in for Jessica and he left with her. Now, at that point, Mark, everything went wrong with the search and how it was conducted. Not really anybody's fault. It's just the way it played out. Remember the command center that you pointed out to me earlier? Explain the problem with that. Well, the command center was put up right on the property itself. So they immediately compromised the crime scene. Immediately. They had a lot of officers in and out shredding the ground,

really. I mean, there was really no way to do a viable investigation given the level of law enforcement presence right at the spot. Would that have ruined the possibility of a scent dog, a tracker dog? I think so. It would have compromised that as well. You bring in volunteers, cops, supplies. You put up a tent. You have fax machines, this, that, making posters right there at the crime scene. If they had brought in the dogs immediately, the dogs would have led them, I assume, straight 65 yards away to Cooey's place. Wasn't that where she was? Unfortunately, yes. According to the case, he held her for an entire weekend. He brought her back to the home.

He sexually assaulted her, kept her overnight, sexually assaulted her again, and then put her in a closet and told her to stay quiet what you say to mark about the about the about the command center is so important nancy because the fbi trains you know this mark the fbi trains to look for children in concentric circles starting at their home and moving out if the command center is interfering with their sort of spatial sense they don't see these neighbors houses that are that close because the command center is right there and even when they did go to his house they didn't search the way the old house the way they're taught you hung your head down when she said that

why well because listen local jurisdictions don't know how to deal with these kinds of situations. Which is so rarely seen. Well, which is why I mentioned earlier, what are the things, what are the steps you take? You contact the FBI. You get the FBI involved because they're not going to allow a command center to be put at ground zero. They're just not going to let that happen. They're going to work with the authorities to do a thorough investigation because they have a protocol. They know how to deal with missing children. They deal with missing children thousands of times a year. Local jurisdictions, probably never.

You know, Mark, to have a registered sex offender 65 yards away from your child. And nobody knew. Now the sister, Julie's sister knew, and she had him there and knew he was being exposed. She exposed the children, Nancy, she had them, had him in her home with a two-year-old living there. So here we've got Jessie, Jessica Lunsford, the girl in the pink hat, 65 yards away from her front door. The command center is set up. She's right there. And she doesn't know to try to get out. She can't get out. She's in the closet, petrified, petrified, being molested over and over and over. Long story short, the cops come to the door, to Cooey's door. And what happened? They searched the home, but they didn't go in the room that she was in, is my understanding. I'm not entirely sure why you would search her. She may not go

into that. She was still alive in the closet. So had they gone in the room, had they opened the closet door, Jesse Lunsford would be alive today, Nancy. And the mode of death of that child has haunted me, has stayed with me forever. She was actually buried alive. He coaxed her into a plastic bag, saying that he was going to transport her home that way. So she gets in the bag, and he digs a two-and-a-half-foot grave, throws her in there, and buries her. When they found her, when they found the remains,

they saw holes where she tried to get air through the bag by poking a hole. How near the hung was she buried? She was right there, like, basically out his front door. Exactly. I mean, it wasn't far at all. And my understanding, my reading of the case is that once the police came to the door, that's when it clipped in his mind. I'm going to kill her.

I'm going to kill her. And so overnight, that's when he digs a hole and buries her alive. There's so many red bells of alarm here, just flags waving of what went wrong. Mark, the home scenario, there were no prior beatings or child abuse or malnourishment, nothing like that within their home. They left the door unlocked. They had a registered sex offender living 65 yards away, and they didn't know.

And then the scene was compromised. I still have never understood why tracker dogs did not find her 65 yards away. I mean, if they can go all the way from Lacey Peterson's home, down the highway to the San Francisco Bay where she was disposed, she and her unborn child, why couldn't they find Jesse Lonsford 65 yards away? There were too many cents. There were too many people in the area. So another thing is to maintain the scene.

Why? Preserve the scene. Well, and for parents, as a parent, you absolutely have to know who lives in your neighborhood or in neighborhoods near you. You can't go to the next door neighbor and go, P.S., are you a registered child, a sex offender? In this case, you're right. In this case, you would. He didn't live there. The Sex Offender Registration and Notification Act is supposed to account for that. Every state in this country is mandated to have a sex offender registry by zip code. You can put in your zip code and see what sex offender. Don't you have

that on the class website? We were the first ones to do that. Yeah, because now I have it on crimeonline.com and I got it. I got the idea from you. How does that work? She's absolutely right. How does it work? Well, it's Megan's law. It's after another tragedy of a little girl who was taken by somebody in the neighborhood. Or the perp said the three year old girl was flirting with him. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Jesse Tomenik was that character's name. What Megan's law, in fact, does a couple of things. It mandates that law enforcement has to put a public registry up. And it also mandates that if you are a registered sex offender, you need to register with your local sheriff

within just a couple of days, I think it's generally two or three days, of being released from confinement so that they can then make that information available to people in the neighborhood like us so that you will be able to get an idea of those known predators or those known risks within your zip code. Do you really rely on the predator to register himself? Well, it depends on what the penalties for noncompliance are. If the penalty for noncompliance is going back to the joint, then absolutely they're going to register.

So how do you get somebody like Cooey who goes and stays with his sister for a period of time? He's out of his zip code. Well, he was violating federal law and federal prosecutors. I prosecute these cases myself in federal court. They call failure to register cases. If they fail to register and they get caught, that's the point though, they have to be caught. That is a federal felony that carries a strong penalty. And Cooey was in violation because he didn't inform his local sheriff that he was residing there. I get it. And Francia, you're absolutely right.

But what can a regular person do to discover a registered sex offender is 65 yards from their front door? You have to go to the National Sex Offender Registry and put in your zip code and hope. And hope. And hope. Yeah. That all the registered sex offenders are on it. But I think it's important to note, Nancy, that while there are some 800,000 registered sex offenders right now, we know that child sexual abuse is massively underreported. So there's lots of sex offenders

that aren't registered. So don't take that as the end all be all. Well, if he was registered, but had gone out of his zip code. Right. But you could also say, because you don't know, and you're not going to be able to track every sex predator, those are the safety tips that you're talking about, Nancy, about taking precautions within your home, because you don't know who's around. Because even if someone isn't living in your neighborhood, someone could be passing by, take notice of your child, and come back around. Right, with Polly. He didn't live there, but he was stalking Polly even though he didn't live in the neighborhood. I'm referring to Davis. I want to move from Jessica Lunsford, the girl in the pink hat, to Dylan and Shasta Groney.

Dylan and Shasta Groney is a case, it was one of the worst cases I have ever investigated or covered. In that case, as I recall, it was in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho. And I recall it was in a very rural area, which reminded me a lot of where I grew up. And the perp in that case was totally unconnected to the family. For instance, in Polly's case, Davis had been hanging around the area and stalking. Not really a connection, but a tenuous connection. In Jesse, Jesse Lunfer's case, he was living in the neighborhood with his sister. In this case, Dylan and Shasta Groney, there was no connection. What happened? So Dylan and Shasta Groney were in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, one of those idyllic communities. I've been there. It's a beautiful place, rural, lots of trees and land. And they had an above

ground pool. When you fly over it, all you see are trees. That's right. It's a beautiful place. And the Lake Coeur d'Alene is gorgeous. So they have an above ground pool in their yard and there's an interstate that runs so that if you're driving on the interstate and you happen to be glancing to the side, you can see the above ground pool. And the offender in this case was doing just that, driving on the interstate. And he saw eight-year-old Shasta Groney in her bathing suit playing in the pool. And it was then that he said to himself, I'm going to take her. And he spent a significant amount of time surveilling that family, which consisted of eight-year-old Shasta, nine-year-old Dylan, their 13-year-old brother, their mother, and

a stepfather. And he decided... All those people. All those people. But that did not dissuade him from his desire to take Shasta and to take Dylan. They were only a year apart. Did he want Shasta and took Dylan just because, or did he want both of them? Well, his statements are not great.

We can't trust anything that he said. We have a lot of information from Shasta, who survived. And it was very clear that when he broke into the house to murder some members of her family, he removed Shasta and Dylan only, took them outside, and then killed the older brother and the parents in the house with Dylan and Shasta outside and then took them.

I mean, Mark, does it seem to you as if it is you covet that which you see? If he hadn't happened to see them, this would never have happened. It would have happened to somebody else. You're right. That's what would have happened. And I think that's the commonality between the three cases that we've talked about. We're talking about, for want of better terminology, sexually sadistic psychopaths that really could care less about what happens to anybody. And none of these people, because they all had histories, they all had histories that

were about sexually motivated crimes. None of these characters should have been on the street. They all should have been in prison. They all should have, we should have been protected from each and every one of these characters should have been on the street. They all should have been in prison. They all should have, we should have been protected from each and every one of these individuals, but they were on the street. It's a failure of government. It's a failure of the criminal justice system. Well, and this offender, while he didn't have any prior convictions like that, the prosecutors have always suspected that he is a serial killer and that there are multiple missing young children that they think he is the one who committed the offenses that murdered him.

Did he live near Dillon and Shasta? He lived in Montana somewhere, and they were in Idaho. They're right next to each other, so there's a lot of people that work across the state borders. And then he took Dylan and Shasta to a very remote area in Montana and, you know, pitched a camp where he held them for weeks, torturing the children. And authorities think he had, that was not the first time. Now I'm just sitting here listening and you do not graduate from zero to having an encampment solely for the purpose of torturing children. That doesn't happen that way.

There had to be something between zero and 120 MPH. Well, he had a computer that was full of encrypted files. He had lots of child pornography. It's one of the commonalities in these offenders. They almost always have a collection of child pornography because that is where their sexual interest is. So explain to me, now I know how Duncan finds his target, Dylan and Shasta Groney. He sees Shasta playing in an above-ground pool from the interstate. There's no way the family could have seen that coming.

No. He stakes out the home, which is in the middle of a rural, very idyllic area, and he watches them unknown to them. That's right. How does he get in? He just walks in. The house is not secured because they're all there. It's not a high crime area. There's virtually no crime. They had no reason to feel that they were on the bus. Can I just tell you something, Francie Hakes? If I am in this home, the doors are locked. It's a simple matter of turning it. If the children are here, they've locked me out many times because it's second nature. They lock the door when they come in. When I come in, I turn on the alarm, not this motion sensor, the other alarm. So if a window is broken or a door opens, the alarm goes off.

It's second nature. There's more of a reason to have your alarm on because you're there. But you and I have been in crime for decades. We are cynical. We are cynical. We are experienced. We view the world through that lens. The Grownies didn't view the world through that lens. I don't expect people to live in fear or live,

you know, make their home a fortress. But I want to learn from what happened. Yes. So they're all home. It's the mother, the stepfather, the 13-year-old brother, Dylan, Dylan and Shasta.

Shasta. Was there a grandparent in there? Not that I'm aware of. Five people. Yes. Cats, dogs? Not that I'm aware of. Forget the cat.

They don't. They're not a help. Dog, no dog? If there was one, I didn't hear about it. Was there a dog in the home with and i went probably no there wasn't so he just walks right in were they asleep no they were watching tv they were watching tv which i think is probably why the house was unsecured they hadn't even gone to bed yet

why did he think he could do this with all the people home awake you know i think he had ultimate because i think it wasn't his first time so this this is a very, to me, this is also a very personal, rage-filled kind of crime. There's nothing clinical about what he did. This is, to Mark's point, a true psychopath with no feelings, but who enjoys the torture and the brutality. And that's what makes him so dangerous. And then he takes the children to this encampment. How far away? Oh, just an hour or two.

Not far. About 65 miles, 70 miles away. The children did not have a cell phone. Definitely not. And there was no way to track them. No. They just vanished. And, of course, there was a period of time, there was a lag period of time,

when someone discovered the bodies to even start looking for Dylan and Shasta. You know, that's really important. Mark, when I find out generally a timeline, that's why I like to start as a timeline. That's just the way I do it because I like to factor in. They've been gone five hours, then they've gone 300 miles, maybe 60 times five, 60 miles an hour, whether that's correct or not. That's just the way I tabulate the timeline. In this case, how much time passed before police even realized anything had happened? Hours and hours. Hours and hours, because it wasn't until the next day.

The status on that. Well, that means that your umbrella, first of all, that means that your umbrella is vast, that they could be almost anywhere. If it's five or six hours, five times 60 is what, 250 miles. Well, and searchers never found them to that point. Searchers never found those children. And the way, do you remember Marlena? We went over and over and over this. And now when I see this video, it's still, I can hardly stand to look at it. He molests Dylan and Shasta over and over and over. Shasta is forced to be in the room while he molests Dylan. For some reason, he kills Dylan. Why did he kill Dylan? Shasta says that there was an accidental shot. I have heard the audio tape that the offender recorded a video and audio of multiple times that he tortured Dylan. He recorded it for his own viewing enjoyment later. This was a really evil person. You just have to use the word

evil. And I have heard the recording and Shasta thinks the first shot was an accident. And that's what she recalls. According to what I've heard, the worst thing I've ever heard, it was not an accident. You know, you can go so far overboard and I'm just not going to describe the details, but the offender recorded his repeated torture and what was in effect his constantly mini-killing Dylan and bringing him back to life using CPR and then doing it again. He was a true psychopathic torture. There's just no way around it. Let me move past that if I can mentally move past that, because Dylan is dead. And he, Duncan, Joseph Edward Duncan,

brings Shasta into a convenience store, like at a gas store, gas station. And they are actually walking around, and she's following him. And you can see she's very withdrawn. She's completely detached, but she's not trying to run. And that has been brought up a million times why a child will not run away from the kidnapper. Because he seemed like God to her. He had ultimate power. He had mother. I don't know that I would have played him with God, maybe Satan, but with entire power

over her and fear. Yes. She's a child. She's so beaten down and has been beaten and tortured for so long. She's eight years old. Right. And they're seen walking through the gas station on video surveillance. Well, I mean, and we're not talking about this case, but they use this intimidation

a lot of times, these captors. They intimidate them, scare them into silence. Like in the case of Sean Hornbeck, he was free to walk around the complex. He had a cell phone at one point. He was allowed to date. He had all these options to escape and never did. It's the psychological fear and oppression and just the power that they have over these kids because they're so impressionable. They're so young. And their whole psyche has been destroyed.

So they're in a convenience store and what happens? The clerk recognizes Shasta because she's been missing for weeks. A miracle. And there's been a lot of press about it. And she recognized Shasta and she calls the police. I know that even in your own home with a television on at, what, 10 o'clock at night, that you need to have safety precautions in place. This case is being highlighted specifically because the family was not asleep. Always, everybody's asleep, and they don't hear anything. In this case, they were all up together watching TV, like we do every night,

trying to find something on TV that children can watch. And that is when the devil comes into their home and ruins their lives. You have to secure your home. You have to have a dog. You should have an alarm system if your kids are allergic. You've got to find a way. Oh, and that reminds me of something. You know, people hear the word alarm system and they think thousands and thousands and thousands.

That's not true. The more that you put in yourself for like $99 and it's so worth it. You know, I bought a pet cam recently. It costs $49 to have this pet cam and I've got an app on my phone. So it's completely free based on my internet or my cell service. And it's a motion detecting camera. Anytime anything, including my animals, walk by it, I get an alert on my phone. It costs $49.

We are not here to sell anything. There are many, many home alarm systems out there on the market. I don't care which one you get. Just get one. And when you're home, turn it on. Yes, that means whenever you let the dog out or a child goes out or you go out, it's going to go off. You know what that means?

You have to get up and punch a button and turn it off. That's all it means. When I think back about how many crimes could have been avoided if there had been an alarm or if the door had been locked, but it's all woulda, coulda, shoulda. That is the takeaway that I get from Dylan and Shasta Groney. Then there is Danielle Van Dam. And you know what I think of, Marlena? You and I traveled to California to investigate that. We covered that day after day after day. And what I remember is the Mickey Mouse earring. The Mickey Mouse earring, she lost one. And Danielle's body was so decomposed

by the time they found her. They identify her by her Mickey Mouse earrings she was still wearing. And that case has stuck with me forever. Mark, this is practically in your backyard in California. Danielle Van Damp, beautiful little girl, eight, nine years old, at home with her parents that night. The mom had been out with friends. She had had a couple of drinks. She comes back. The dad was at home.

What went wrong? They left the sliding door unlocked. Even sliding doors. A sliding door. Problem. Sure. They're so easy. Even I can get into a sliding glass door.

Yeah. What's the problem with sliding glass doors? Well, I don't know that there's any specific problem with sliding glass doors. Except that they're not being secured. That. That's all it is. No deadbolt on a sliding glass door. No.

Yeah. I mean, you can jack into a sliding glass door just like that. We should have a bar. Yeah, the bar that comes down. Yeah, the zeroed option. I mean, you can jack into a sliding glass door just like that. We should have a bar. Yeah, the bar that comes down. Is there an option? A bar, even a piece of wood, anything that's holding it. But I can tell you this, Marlena.

If the sliding glass door is ajar or unlocked, I promise you they did not think to put the bar down in the bottom. Yeah. Because that's another step to go through. So that night, the mom and dad are there. They really been attacked because they had been drinking and partying that night. But they came home. They were together. She came home. He was at home already. Yeah. So you were jumping in. Oh, I was just going to say that. Yes. The father was home with with with Danielle that evening and she had gone to bed um and the mother had come home from being out that night and brought home a bunch of friends so friends came from the bar home and when she went missing they were immediately under

suspicion they had nothing to do with it how did the perp get into the home? It was an open sliding glass door. Were they still awake or were they all asleep when he came in? David Westerfield. I think they were asleep by that time. They were asleep by that time. And so they're out at a bar. The dad is at home. How does he get into the home?

Well, the mom is still at the bar. The perpetrator, Westerfield, comes the mom is still at the bar um the perpetrator westerfield he sees her at the bar he sees her at the bar absolutely recognizes her because he's a neighbor knows exactly who she is he comes home he goes through their back he's out so he's wondering who's at home with the kid yeah and where's dad yeah i'm wondering all those things maybe maybe not but he used that opportunity to get through the sliding glass door, go up into Danielle's bedroom, at which point mom came home. So he's up there hiding when the mother comes home? That's exactly right. He's up there hiding when the mother comes home. She has no idea. Nope. Did she check on? I don't know. Danielle.

It wouldn't matter though, because when you check on your child, you look to see if they're in their bed, if they're breathing, you shut the door and leave. You don't think, wow, could somebody be hiding in the closet? Right. She wouldn't have thought to check there anyway. No. So he hides in the closet until the friends party and then leave and everybody goes to bed. He's in there for hours. Maybe.

And then what happens? Well, then he takes a little girl and she disappears for the next, what, several weeks. Weeks, weeks. And I remember the Santa Ana wind came up and it made the search so much more difficult. And finally she was found. The neighbor, who I believe was an engineer, David Westerfield, who seemingly was a normal guy. Didn't he have grown children? I think so, yes. And he had a beautiful home in their neighborhood,

big yard with a giant RV parked in the yard. And that is where the murder occurred, in the RV. Yep. No one would have ever suspected David Westerfield. No, he wasn't a registered sex offender. He didn't frighten people because he looked normal. And I think that's what it's really important for people to understand. That someone who wants to take your child may be your neighbor or your best friend or your cousin or someone you know or someone that looks like they

belong and that's how these sophisticated offenders like westerfield operate not only did he look like he belonged in the neighborhood he did belong in the neighborhood who's the neighbor he was a neighbor that's right married neighbor yeah married neighbor with two kids and no criminal record how do you crack mary at egg neighbor two children no criminal record. How do you crack Mary at egg? Neighbor, two children, no criminal record. They were grown, though. Grown children, yeah. Teen teens are grown. Yeah, grown.

Adult children. I will never forget that wanted post. I mean, that search poster, that missing poster for Danielle Van Dam. So our takeaway here, neighbor, not a sex registered sex predator, upstanding, married with children. Now, why does it strike me? I mean, this is anecdotal, but I just, you don't suspect a married man with children, he's your next door neighbor, to be the guy that sneaks in and hides in the closet and murders your child? You suspect Chester the molester. I mean, people have it in their minds that it's going to be some grody old dude, as all of these characters we've talked about,

wearing a trench coat and hiding behind a bush, when the reality is, is that the majority of these characters are individuals who use their professional or volunteer activities to get into positions that give them unsupervised access to your children so that they can then get that access and start grooming your children and then have their way. And we hear about it all the time, whether they're priests, whether they're scout leaders, whether they're involved in youth sports. They're just there. They seem normal. Nobody has any idea what's going on until the damage has been done, and the damage can be severe. No, and Nancy, I've prosecuted thousands of offenders, sex offenders. I've only prosecuted one, Chester the Molester. His name was actually Chester, and he looked like Cooey and some of these other offenders, but they are the exception. The rule, in my experience, is they look like Westerfield.

What can I learn? What rule? Well, you know, and, you know, Danielle lived in the neighborhood with this guy, and now here he is in her bedroom. You can imagine how confused she was. Now, we keep talking about locked doors, right? And even if they lock the door every night and then, you know, he finds another way in, is there something to say about talking to your children about when they come in contact with some of these people who do say, don't scream or don't say anything? Is there a method or something to teach the child? Like you don't have to go and you don't worry about what they say or some sort of formula to, or something to arm your children with when something like this happens? I believe the answer

to that is yes, absolutely. And I think that parents have to have these conversations with children from an early age on and they have to be age appropriate. But I think the critical thing about these conversations is they can't be fear-based conversations. They have to be learning experiences for the children. You have to tell the children that not everybody's a good person, that you don't obey to leave with somebody that if, if, if you're feeling your gut tells you something is wrong, then you have to act on that and you have to do something about it. But I think it's when you make it a fear-based conversation that everything gets turned off, that the kids don't want to listen to it. The parents don't want to talk about it

and they lose the opportunity and the result can be tragic. Well, and that's what parents say is they say, I don't want to talk about it and they lose the opportunity and the result can be tragic. Well, and that's what parents say is they say, I don't want to frighten my child. That's why you don't have a conversation. You don't make a big deal out of it. We need to have a conversation. Let's sit down and talk. Instead, you make it part of everyday life. Every month or every couple of weeks, you talk about if someone makes you feel uncomfortable,

you know, you can tell mommy, right? We don't have any secrets, right? And if someone does something you don't like, you can yell out, you should shout for help if you need help. And these conversations you have to have, I like to say that kids are their own first best defense against victimization. I'm not blaming the child or putting responsibility on them at all. But you have to arm them. Coming home impaired and not checking the doors, the locks, the sliding glass door, I still don't quite understand how he could get in. I wonder if the dad was already asleep and all those hours pass and no one knows he's in the home. And the takeaway of a neighbor that seems to be normal and upstanding, who doesn't fit our stereotype of a sex offender,

which leads me to Haley Cummings, a little girl in Satsuma, Florida, who goes missing and to this day has never been found. Also concerning me there is what went wrong and what can I learn from it? Right. So like you said, Haley Cummings, it's a normal February night. She goes to bed. She's at home with her father's 17-year-old girlfriend who was living in the home at the time. Her father went

to work. He worked the night shift as a crane operator. Misty Crosland, the girlfriend, the 17-year-old girlfriend, says she put the kids to bed at 8 30 at night and she herself went to bed at 10. At some point in the middle of the night, she gets up to go to the bathroom, says she notices that a light is on in the kitchen and that the back door is propped open with a cinder block, goes back in the bedroom to see that Haley is gone. Right there, a 17-year-old in charge overnight. To me, problem. Overnight. On the other hand, working parents, parents that have to go out of town, you think you can leave the children with a babysitter. But in this case, she was, by her own words, dead to the world when the perp comes in to get Haley. Also,

evidence has emerged since that time she had people over partying at the home. While the dad was out working, the 17-year-old in charge of the children had people partying at the home the dad didn't know about. That's a big problem. It is a big problem. And she never initiated, initially told the investigators that story. Of course, why would she? But there were a few stories that started flying around about Misty. And she herself came up with a story a year later about her cousin coming to the door with her brother and they had a beef with her boyfriend, Ronald, you know, and that, you know, they came to the house looking for him and looking for something he had of theirs and then took Haley in the process.

It seems unlikely. And none of these things have been really substantiated because Misty was the only one in the home when the crime took place. But what we do know is a strong likelihood that other people were allowed in the home while the father, the parent, the guardian was away. Correct. He had no knowledge of that. He had no knowledge. So that opens up a whole Pandora's box about who comes in your home

with your knowledge or without it. That's my takeaway on Haley Cummings, which leads me to Samantha Runyon. And the reason Samantha Runyon's kidnap and murder has stuck in my mind is because nobody did anything wrong. There was not an intruder. Nobody left the door unlocked. There wasn't a guest in the home that you didn't know. There wasn't a sex offender 65 yards away that you didn't find out about. The scene wasn't contaminated. Samantha Runyon, a five-year-old little girl, was in the front yard. Her grandma had come in. I was at the kitchen window. I recall there was another child playing in the front yard as well. She wasn't alone.

And the perp, Alejandro Avila, drives up, gets her in the car, leaves. It's over. It's over. Just like that. They were in the front yard alone i think less than 20 minutes they were playing in the front yard and like you said avala rolls up and what does he say i lost my puppy he's drawing her in she's five years old and she gets close enough he snatches her up she screamed and said get tell my grandmother, but it was just too late. He sped off. Getting close to the car is a whole nother can of worms. Because once the child is 10 feet, 15 feet from the car, it's over.

They're grabbed by the arm and yanked in the car and the car is gone at 60 MPH. It's done. Done deal. The front yard, right there in the front yard of the home with grandma who'd been out in the front yard playing with them. She goes in. It happens. What can I do with that, Mark? Well, notify the police. I mean, like you said earlier, right? Like you said earlier, it's 60 miles an hour. I mean, that's how quickly they can get away. You notify law enforcement immediately, and they're going to be able to contain an area if they have a plan in

place. That's what they're going to be able to do. What do they do? Don't leave your child outside alone even for a minute. Even for five minutes. Even for a minute. And another thing I've thought about is not having a fence you know you go in neighborhoods and it may not be feasible for people to have a fence but if there had been a fence with a gate would that have stopped him maybe but maybe not you'd have to get over the fence you have to do the gate you have to wiggle with the child. It wouldn't have been one more barrier for a perp to scale. But like Mark said, the ultimate barrier is don't leave them outside. If you have to go to the bathroom, say, I'm really sorry. I know you're playing. Just come in for a minute. I have to go.

That's what I do with my daughter. They don't like it, but it's the safest thing to do. You close the door behind you. And then when you're done, you go back out with your kids. And quite frankly, her parents didn't have the power to build a fence. They lived in a condo community. There's HOA rules and restrictions. No, they couldn't. It was not feasible for them to have a fence. They couldn't.

Even if they had wanted to, it would have violated the community agreement. They could not have done that. Anything people can do to avoid the Runyon scenario, Samantha Runyon. And in that case, Samantha was killed quickly. She was killed quickly. Let's back it up and think for a moment if Samantha had had some kind of a GPS device on her, maybe something as simple as a cell phone, maybe one of the other devices that are so readily available now at a good cost that you can arm your children with, and in the worst case scenario, be able to track them. They better hide it though, because I'm sure criminals will get onto what that bracelet looks like. Some do, runyon case though certainly makes an argument for having it just like a case i prosecuted not

15 miles from where we sit right now nancy where someone just like samantha snatched a five-year-old girl in an apartment complex where she was playing with a dozen other children, took her by car, and it didn't end well for anyone. The child did live in that particular case, but no chip. The parents called the police right away. They did everything they were supposed to do. They didn't do anything wrong except be inside their apartment where they could see the child instead of outside the apartment where they were closed. You know, a case that has also disturbed me is a mom of a beautiful 19-month-old little boy, Lincoln.

So she thinks she's found her dream man. He's a dentist, a very successful dentist, and she's impressed by his education, by his money, by he treats her like a queen. Well, he killed the baby. He killed Lincoln and it's caught on camera on her nanny cam. Now, how she didn't know who he really was, a married father of several children, still married and, you know, several miles away, which was on Facebook. She didn't know. She was in love. She's a working mom. She went through a lot giving birth to Lincoln. He had a lot of health issues, but he was coming through. He was at the end of the child. The light was there and he was getting well. The baby was on

the floor. What happened? Well, the baby was on the floor and the mother was upstairs. So here, the man you're talking about, this 35-year-old dentist is downstairs with Lincoln. And you could see on the nanny cam, this Bert Lewis, a Tulsa dentist. That's who he is. Bert Franklin. Yeah. Thank you. Bert Franklin, a Tulsa dentist, correct? Who, like you said, was still married with four children, but we'll put that aside. So he goes into the living room, puts little Lincoln on the floor, gives him a bottle. You see a kicking motion because you see the top of his body. You see a kicking motion. He comes back in with the baby in his arms, limp, grabs a piece of pizza, walks back out, and then seemingly slams Lincoln's head into the floor. Now the mom hears noises downstairs, calls down to her wonderful boyfriend,

and he says, I was throwing a ball to the dog. She comes down the steps. She sees her baby laying on the couch with pillows around him. And the boyfriend says, he's sleeping. Don't disturb him. So she says, okay, puts his pacifier on the armrest and walks away. And then he later died of massive internal injuries. Well, yes. Later that evening, 2 a.m., she hears her son, which she thinks he's coughing. He's snoring heavily.m. She hears her son, which she thinks he's coughing, snoring heavily. Right. But when up, once she wakes up and she realized it's more of a gurgling sound, Nancy. So, and then his eyes are wide open and she can, and she's trying to give him a bottle and he's just not responsive. So she

rushes him to the hospital. She talked to the doctors and they examined him and they said that he had suffered a severe injury to the head so she starts racking her brain she has no idea she's not even thinking about her boyfriend and she's like well maybe he fell down when he was at my aunt's house earlier and i didn't know and they didn't know that you know and then the doctor said this is no ordinary injury this is not something that someone would get from falling down. This is like a car crash. That's severity. Exactly.

Later on, like you said, little Lincoln dies. And the medical examiner comes back with cause of death as non-accidental blunt force trauma to the head. And the manner of death homicide, which led to eventually the surveillance video, the nanny cam. And where this lays me, Marlena, is the convergence of two major issues. Who you bring in your home, who you bring in your home, and the person that seems like a great guy, like David Westerfield. Well, can we just backtrack on that? Burt Franklin was a dentist.

He was a professional, but he told Lincoln's mom that he was separated from the mom, but just still living under the same roof as her, and they had four children together. They were together. They were boyfriend and girlfriend for one year and he's still living under the same roof with his wife who he's separated with. That's a red flag right there. That's a major red flag. It's beyond a red flag. Well, he's a scumbag, but that wouldn't necessarily tell the mother that he's a child killer. Well, I wouldn't be involved with someone who was telling me this for a year and stayed living you know that's a red flag about who he might be as a person yeah exactly

she might think well he's lying he's a liar and when you've got a guy lying about something so significant as their children their own children and themselves that's a major major problem bringing that person into the home and allowing them access to your child access to that's the problem is she should have never allowed someone of low character or of any character that she didn't know really really well along with her child or even say mark well you said that could have been verified on facebook right they still he still had a facebook page up with photos of children and the kids absolutely and she i mean she probably believed what she wanted to believe i mean there is a thing called bed and board you know separations where you know people can't financially afford a second home and they get legal paperwork to say that they're you know separated but living under the same dwelling

they just you know there's just parameters in there because they're not physically divorced or legally divorced. Did she do ask for that paperwork? But you know what, Mark, even if she did ask for that paperwork, that could be faked document easily. It's a piece of paper. You know, she was, I mean, this is a real issue with single mothers. You know, single mothers of young children are an incredibly vulnerable category of individual. And there was a point in time where there were no tools for these women, that they had to basically take people on their word.

But now there are tools. I mean, if you're in a situation like that, if you're like this, like Lincoln's mother, you can go on to Megan's Law and you can find out whether or not the individual that's in your home has any kind of a history. You can go onto Facebook and do some kind of a search on this individual and see exactly who he is and where he comes from. You can even go to law enforcement if you want and verify a criminal history that way. Those tools exist now. It's not a fail-safe. There's no question that children are going to continue to be victimized, but there are steps you can take to mitigate that victimization or the potential for that victimization.

Well, and we know from cases that child sex offenders hunt for women who are not married, who are single mothers, who have children of the age that they're sexually interested in to date so that they can get access to the kids. And Mark's exactly right. There are tools out there that you can run sort of your own kind of background check on someone. But ultimately, if someone has never been caught for a sex offense, you're not going to turn anything up. But that does not mean you should feel secure that the person you're dating isn't a sex offender. You have to take precautions against everyone who comes in your home. Bottom line.

I want to pause just for a moment because we are extracting from these cases, and they're not just stories. They're not just headlines. These are real families, real children who are no longer with us. I want to think about them for a moment. Samantha Runyon, Danielle Van Dam, Jesse Lunsford, Dylan and Shasta Groney, Lincoln Lewis, Haley Cummings, and Polly Klass. There's no end to this conversation. There's no end to what we can learn. I want to use that knowledge to arm others. So one innocent person can be kept safe. Just one person.

If we could save one child, it would be worth it to me. So I want to thank you, Marlena, Francie, and Mark. That was a lot of information on being safe at home. How can we boil it down so we can use it? Let's condense it. First of all, keep your home secure at all times. You never know when a predator or intruder may test your security. First and obvious, keep your doors locked at all times, including the door in and out of the garage. If you have a sliding glass door, get the bar that adds an extra layer of protection

against intruders. Always sleep with windows closed and locked. Get a security system. They don't have to be expensive. There are so many home alarm systems at different prices out there in the market. Set your alarm even when you're home. Remember, you and your children are the most important things to protect. Make it second nature. Landscape with security in mind. Plant bushes outside the windows like holly that grows thick and prickly to make it hard for an intruder to enter your home and clear away potential hiding spots for criminals like bushes, planters, anywhere an intruder could hide in your yard. If you can, put a fence around your yard. It's one more barrier

that they have to overcome. Put up security cameras. Even if they're fake, they will discourage criminals. Get a security system that beeps when someone opens or closes a door at your home. Your home must appear occupied at all times. Leave all lights or the radio when you're not there. Install outdoor lighting on a timer or motion sensitive. Do not leave a key under the mat or under a planter. They know that.

Find a different place and don't blab about it. Ask any service people for credentials before they come into your home. If a service person is coming to your home, whether it's the cable guy, the phone guy, the repairman, that should have been by appointment. They never just show up. You can barely get an appointment. So you should know when someone's coming to your home ahead of time. If you can, hire a house sitter if you're away from home for an extended period of time or if your absence has unwittingly been publicized even on social media. Turn the volume down on your phone or even take it off the hook.

When a phone that's constantly ringing is a sign to intruders that nobody's home. Do not let your newspapers pile up. It's so easy to make a phone call or even online to stop delivery for a period of time. Do not put it out there on social media. You're going on vacation. That's like waving a red flag or ringing a red bell of alarm. Hello, I'm gone. Burglarize my home. Let's talk about your neighborhood. You need to know the risks in your area around your home. You must check the National Sex Offender Registry and know if you have neighbors on that list. Don't take that as a fine word

because sex crimes, especially on children, are mostly underreported. That's why you need to proactively secure your home. Before you bring somebody into your home, run a background check, just like you would a caregiver who will be with your children. I'm talking about piano teachers, tutors, everybody who walks through that front door. Be careful about how much exposure your child has to non-parents in the home. Remember Haley Cummings? Someone who wants to take your child could be your neighbor, your married neighbor, or even a relative.

They won't look like Chester the Molester. They could use their position or their authority to be in a place of power over your child. Don't ever leave your child outside alone it's so tempting don't do it and here are tips that i don't want to even think about but we have to be prepared for the worst hope for the best be prepared for the worst. Keep a complete and current written description of your child in handwriting and on your phone. Take color photos, digital if possible, of your child every six months or more often if your child's appearance is changing. Know where your child's medical and dental records are located

and how you can obtain them. Contact local law enforcement. See if they offer fingerprinting for children. I did it. If they do, arrange to have the agency to fingerprint your child. Get a DNA sample from your child. If you can, arm your child with a GPS-enabled device. Think something like a smartwatch. Consider a cell phone. Now, what if your child goes missing from home? Search your home thoroughly. I'm talking about closets, piles of laundry, the dryer,

the basement, the storage room, in your cars, under your cars, in and under beds, inside large appliances, anywhere a child could crawl or hide. Contact every law enforcement agency you can think of and don't rely on one to talk to the other. Immediately call the news desk, the media assignment desk, and let them know you're available on behalf of your child. Call the FBI. Very often, smaller local jurisdictions haven't handled a lot of child abductions. And that is why you must call. You must call the FBI. Take to social media. Create a missing child page on Facebook. Upload photos. Share updates. Keep people engaged. It costs you nothing and takes very little time. And the rewards are immeasurable. After you report your child missing to the law,

call the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children at 1-800-THE-LOST. 1-800-843-5678. When you call police, provide them with your child's name, date of birth, height, weight, description of any unique identifier such as eyeglasses or braces, a birthmark, freckles, anything. Tell them when you notice your child was missing, what clothing your child was wearing, and ask them to immediately enter your child's name and identifying information into the FBI's National Crime Information Center missing person file. What to tell your child. These conversations must be early and they cannot be fear-based, but you have to tell them not everyone is a nice person or to listen to every

adult that's crazy and make this a part of everyday life. I ask my twins all the time, has anybody grabbed you? Has anybody touched your chest or your rear end or anything else? Has anybody beside me tried to give you a bath? I'd say it in a lighthearted way, but the message is clear. And I ask it several times. I look them in the eye and ask them. I've even asked about their babysitters. What about Miss Michelle? What about Mr. Chris? I ask. And I emphasize, Mommy won't be mad. Just Mommy wants you to be safe.

And that's not okay. Make this a part of everyday life. Reinforce to them, it's okay to tell you. And do it on a regular basis so it's not scary. Children, kids are their own best defense. You've got to teach them to look both ways when they cross the street and about other dangers. I know you may not want to talk about it with your children because I don't like it either. But you know what I really don't like? The thought of my child being mistreated, abused, stolen from me.

And I will do whatever I have to do to keep that from happening. Won't you?