Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - SAVANNAH GUTHER MOM MISSING: EXTENSIVE HIGHWAY SEARCHES UNDERWAY

Episode Date: February 11, 2026

F.B.I. agents scouring roadways in the Catalina foothills near Nancy Guthrie’s home.  The FBI announcing the extensive search on social media.    Joining Nancy Grace today:  Janine Driver - Body Language Expert and CEO of the Body Language Institute, New York Times Bestselling Author of “You Say More Than You Think,” and "You Can't Lie to Me".  Host of podcast “In The Driver’s Seat with Janine Driver” website: JanineDriver.com, Instagram: NewBodyLanguage Chris McDonough - Director At the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective,  Host of YouTube channel, "The Interview Room”, website: www.coldcasefoundation.org/chris-mcdonough  Josh Kolsrud -  Criminal Defense Attorney and Former Assistant U.S. Attorney, Founder of Kolsrud Law Offices, website: kolsrudlawoffices.com, Facebook and YouTube @KolsrudLawOffices Brian Fitzgibbons -  Director of Operations for USPA Nationwide Security, website: www.uspasecurity.com, Instagram: @uspa_nationwide_security Dave Mack -  Investigative Reporter, 'Crime Stories’  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. All of our hopes dashed last night when we learn a guy has been taken in for detainment. In the Nancy Guthrie case, we learned that the hostage unit is on standby, less than a mile away. That means the hostage is nearby, right? for our hopes to be dashed when we wake up this morning and find out that guy was released. He allegedly had nothing to do with Nancy Guthrie's disappearance.

Also, as we go to air right now, another missive has been received by TMZ, 30-mile zone. This time, the missive isn't the rat. they want to rat out the rat. They are stating they can give the name of the perk for one Bitcoin to a Bitcoin wallet. What is the Bitcoin worth? $66,000. Also at this hour, we learned that the FBI is combing the roadside and they are in three locations. Campbell, they are in.

in, uh, near Tullo, they are near Cillow Tulsa, North Ridge Estrada, those four places, not three, four. All the Catalina foothills, and they are looking along the roadside. Why?

Was something tossed out of a car? A cell phone? A camera. That camera that was taken off, Nancy Guthrie's front porch. What are they looking for? In addition to combing the Catalina foothills near the roadside, the FBI has launched a new search near Nancy Guthrie's home in the Catalina

foothills north of Tucson. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Dave, Mac joining me, Crime Stories investigative reporter. Dave, I'm going to get to the searches that are going on right now in the foothills of Catalina first. Then we'll go through what happened last night. I see, I've seen video footage. of the FBI and I believe local law enforcement elsewhere combing the road sides. Where are they? They are in the Catalina foothills just north of Tucson, Nancy. And by the way, they're not just in one location. They have spread hundreds, okay, plural, hundreds of FBI and sheriff's deputies are all over the area. They're searching roads, back roads, and they're not isolated to one specific,

area. They're covering all of it and they are looking specifically for evidence that could have been tossed from a vehicle going down the road, maybe a road that doesn't get a lot of traffic in the foothills. And they are looking. They're going, you know what? There's so many people out there. They're asking anybody driving in those areas to be extra cautious. They're even warning media. I say they, it's the FBI. The FBI Phoenix office has taken to X to point out there are so many officials that are actually searching this area. Be careful. Get out of the way. They're on foot looking for evidence, Nancy. Josh Colesruh, joining us from this jurisdiction in Arizona, veteran criminal defense attorney, former federal prosecutor and founder of the

Colesruid law offices. Josh, exactly where would the Catalina foothills be for those that are not familiar with Arizona? Yeah, the Catalina foothills are just outside of two. It's an affluent area. I'm from Phoenix. We kind of look at the Catalina Foothills as the Scottsdale of the Tucson area. It's very nice and a fairly large retirement community. And as Dave Mack said, it's all along the roadways. So what are they looking for?

Brian Fitzgibbon is joining us, Director of Operations, USPA Nationwide Security, their specialty, locating missing. people at uspa security.com, Brian, I think they're looking for something thrown out of a window. And is this desperate? Maybe. Or maybe they got a tip. The number of tips has swollen. There's a surge of tips after Savannah Guthrie's last plea for the public's help.

Did somebody call in and say, hey, I saw a guy throw what looked to be a cell phone out of a car on that night. But what could they be looking for, Brian? And what does this mean that they're literally beating the bushes? Yeah, bingo. There are two reasons that law enforcement would be out there. And the first one, you've highlighted both of them. The first one is, hey, they got a tip. Someone in Tucson said, hey, I saw a suspicious vehicle parked alongside of the road.

Maybe there was a swap that took place. A second vehicle came in. I saw something, and we want to go inspect. that area and law enforcement's out there falling up on that tip. The second reason is is exactly what you said. Very often in criminal activity, they're going to dump, you know, regardless of what crime it is, they're going to dump that clothing or disguise so it's not in a vehicle with them. So there's a very good chance that this is law enforcement doing exactly what they told us they're doing, which is all the blocking and tackling to do this the right way.

And that's going to include covering those major roadways, avenues of egress, away from Ms. Guthrie's house to see if there's anything discarded along the road that now matches that video we have from the crime scene. And Brian Fitzgibbon's, you and I covered and investigated ourselves the Delphi double murders of Abbey and Libby. And if you will recall, it came out in court and it was really heartbreaking that a tip had been taken down at the beginning of the investigation. And that tip had been translated incorrectly. And I believe that they reversed Richard Allen or they reversed the name of the street. So all of this time when people were searching and so much was happening trying to solve. the case. It was right under their noses, but the tip got screwed up and overlooked. There's so many

citizen tips. I always use the Gabby Petito case as a great example of citizen sleuth. Everyone was looking for Gabby Petito in her white Ford Transit. We now know that she and Brian Laundrie had been in what is called dispersed camping way, way out in the wilderness. No porta-potty hookups, no lights, no cell phone, range. And there was a citizen who had been following the story, and they had the handle red, blue, and methane, as I recall. And they spotted Gabby Potato's White Ford Transit. And out of the blue in the middle of nowhere, they go, hey, that could be Gabby's Ford Transit. They called it in, Brian, and law enforcement went out there. And if it had not been for that citizen's We would never have found Gabby Petito's remains, and our parents would be wondering to this day

what happened to Gabby. The outcome wasn't good, but they know they have the knowledge of what happened to Gabby. So, did you know, Brian Fitzgibbon's that in the last 24 hours, there have been 4,000 calls, tips called in. Before that, there had only been 1,000 since Feb 1. But once this video was released, let's play it again, Control Room, please. This is what is generating the calls and the tips. This. And I want to see his face as best as we can, that balaclava, that ski mask that he is wearing. this guy, this guy, if I could just get my hands on him. So Brian Fitzgibbons, you believe, repeat, what you think is the reason they're out beating the bushes by the side of the road. Yeah, first and foremost, right, as I said before, they're doing everything they said, law enforcement's doing everything they said they would do, which is cover every base.

and they're going to search those avenues of egress away from Mrs. Guthrie's house where, you know, this perpetrator, this suspect who was at the door, very well could have discarded some of that equipment or some of that clothing to disguise his appearance after leaving the scene. So that's number one. I think that's just part of the blocking and tackling. Hey, I want to follow up on that, Fitzgibbons. That's a really good. thought. Cole's Rood. Let me tell you about a case I had. It was the first bank robbery I ever had and the guy did just that. He came into the bank in a disguise. He was wearing a double-breasted suit, dress, I can't remember his shoes, hat, wig, aviator, darkened aviator glasses,

fake mustache, beard. He left with the money and he had, as I called it, a breakaway suit. He had basted up the back of it. We didn't have DNA. Yanked it off, took off the hat, took off the mustache, the whole wig, the whole thing, throw it down. Underneath he was wearing a short sleeve shirt, a pair of shorts, athletic socks up to the knee. He got on a bicycle that was parked beside the bike, parked beside the bank, drove off on the bicycle and got away. He drove right past all of the ambulances and the police that were racing to the scene, sirens blazing, rode right by them in a different outfit.

Now, look at this guy, Coles Rood. He's clearly, to me, it's clear. He has on layers. Layers. He's about to bust out of the pants and the jacket. Think that could be why? Well, he's certainly being overly cautious by wearing the multiple layers to prevent hair and DNA, touch DNA from being left at the crime scene.

Now, I know I look at this from a different lens, Nancy. You know, before we had this video, you know, you had, you know, the majority of the commentators saying that, you know, this looked like a professional hit job because of the success so far with not being able to identify who did this. Now, what if, you know, this person here is doing this for our benefit to mislead us into thinking that it's somebody that it's not or that it's a type of operation that it wasn't. So, you know, I'm kind of taking this with a grain of salt right now until we have some additional evidence to kind of lead us on the way.

You're giving them a lot of credit. But when you said, you can't just drop a bomb like that, Cole's Root and not expect me to cross-examine you. What do you mean that the guy on the porch is trying to mislead us to make us think it's something it's not, it's a kidnap of 84-year-old Nancy Guthrie. And he's such a bumbling idiot that he tried to cover up the door cam with foliage, which is a real dichotomy with whoever wrote the ransom note, which was very well written. But what do you mean? He's trying to make us think it something. it's not. We already know what it is. It's kidnapped. Well, I mean, there's kidnapping that is a dumb kidnapping where people get caught. And then there's a professional kidnapping where people

don't get caught. Now, everything except for the video has been done on a professional level. So this video isn't congruent with the other things that have happened. I mean, this 84-year-old was kidnapped and there's a national manhunt for the people or a person involved. And we as far as the public is concerned, know almost virtually nothing about what's going on, including finding Nancy Guthrie. So what I'm trying to say is, you know, we don't know yet to attribute a motive. We don't know yet if this is professional or not. But if somebody later on a month ago, a month from now said that this was staged to, you know, mislead us in our investigation, I wouldn't necessarily be surprised. Okay. Now I see what you're saying. Like make us think it's a

kidnap for ransom, and really it's a murder in order to get her inheritance. Something, that's just a theory of misdirection to follow up and give an example of what you're stating. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A lot's happening right now. We now know that the FBI and local law enforcement is trying to identify the close. clothing, the backpack, the shoes, the balaclava, the ski mask, the gun, you name it. Very quickly, Dave Mack, tell us about yet a third missive, this one to TMZ that has gone down

literally in the last hours. It has. Nancy, the shocking reality is that earlier today, TMZ got another email. Now, this one is not from the actual kidnappers. This one is from a rat promising to rat out the kidnappers in exchange for one Bitcoin. Now, they will name who the kidnapper is. And by the way, he's not saying this person doesn't say plural. It's saying, I will name the kidnapper, one person, singular, in exchange for one Bitcoin.

They cost about $66,000. That's the offer. It's not the kidnapper. It is somebody who knows the kidnap. offering to rat them out for the money. Okay, straight out to Chris McDowda, joining us director of the Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective.

Um, he's worked Oceanside, California. He's worked over 300 homicides in a 25 year career. That's his expertise. And he is the star of the interview room on YouTube. What do you make of a rat rat ratting out a rat? Can he be believed? And does nobody understand Bitcoin can be? be traced. You put that wallet up there, throw in $100. The minute it is transferred out,

bam, the IRS can do it, the DOJ can do it, the FBI can do it, unless they move the money to a foreign country that has low or no Bitcoin regulation. In other words, there's nothing for us to subpoena. There's nothing there because there's no regulation. We can get him. Yeah, absolutely. And remember that guy. that used to send the, hey, you're the heir of a Nigerian prince and for a million dollars will hold it. Okay, this is just a bunch of noise that's going on around this thing. What's really important here is, right, re-refocus back at the house, and that's what the investigators are doing. And what you were talking about a little bit ago, Nancy, on this search

that's going on here. If they do find a piece of clothing, one evidentiary task, or a path that they can go down is they can look at that clothing and there's what they call an RN number on the tags. If the clothing was manufactured overseas, they're going to be able to get right down to the cash register where that clothing was purchased. Okay. You got me at RN number. Start right there. Yeah. So an RN number and I actually had a homicide where we pulled the RN number and we found where the suspect had purchased his clothing. What it is, it's a Federal Trade Commission number, and it's mandatory for any kind of import clothing from overseas.

And every piece of clothing has it, let's say if it was made in Indonesia or something to that effect. Well, with that number, the Federal Trade Commission tracks the inventory as it comes into the United States, and then the distribution points as to where that particular clothing went. including backpacks. Well, McDonough, you're brilliant. I just plugged in, RN number.

You can actually search the RN database. There is an RN database. Wow. You had a case and you used the RN database. How? Yeah, well, the suspect pulled off his jacket and he left it in a drainage ditch behind the murder scene. And so we pulled that number through the Federal Trade Commission and we were able to find out, you know, when the, when the item was manufactured, who the distributors were.

And then we traced it to a store and a mall nearby. And we were able to go to that mall and pull the purchase receipt of all of those types of jackets. And then we had the credit card numbers. And we just kind of, you know, through elimination, ended up with our guide. want to interrupt to you? I understand it that far, but how did you get it into evidence? Easily. We just showed him the chain of custody, you know, how we did it. And the DA was able to... And Chris McDonough, did you get him? Was he convicted? Yes, he actually, yes, first-degree murder during the commission of a robbery. Yeah, and the victim was David Tabor. Yeah, it was three, it was three

nationals, by the way, from over the border. Are in number. That's amazing. In our effort to try and figure out, and I guarantee you, you did this as local law enforcement. No telling what the FBI can do, because let me just throw this at you. Everyone was wondering how did they get the images off the front porch? Let's just drink them in for another moment, because this is a big, huge break. Okay, where did they come from?

This is how it went down. And Brian Fitzgibbon's jump in if I've got anything wrong. Or you too, Coles Rude. This is what happened. You can see up at the top right. It says, Nest. That's Nancy Guthrie's camera system through Nest. Nest is part of Google.

We know Nancy did not have a subscription. So the video wasn't kept. How did we get the video? It was gone. Well, cast C-A-S-T, cellular analysis survey team, used all of their efforts, and they reached Google, and they then mined Google's vast, vast inventory, their data. I mean, think of Indiana Jones Raiders of the Lost Ark, where you find out the Ark of the covenant, that's the Lost Ark, the Ark of the Covenant that holds the Ten Commandments, is way, way, way, at the end of a long, long aisle, floor to ceiling in a dusty old box, never to be seen again. So that's what it's like to go into Google's database or their archives, but the

FBI did it. They went through all of that data and they find Nancy Guthrie's door cam and they resurrect this power to the feds. What I'm saying, Chris McDonough, you saw that case with the RN number off a jacket down a drain pipe. What can they do? Now here is our sad but earnest effort. Let's see what our staffers' a crime stories came up with. We were looking for that very unique ski mask or since it comes down over the neck, a bala clava. It's got unique stitching around the eyes. The nose is not shown just that hole for the mouth.

And you have the vertical ribs gray in color. Walmart. I guarantee you somebody somewhere is doing this right now. Let's look at the jacket. The jacket has a very unique zip down the front. Now remember, in the lighting where the perp actually is, is not true. It's not a true depiction. So they're going to have to figure out, was this, I've seen all sorts of transformations online.

Is this real? What color was it? they could probably pick out what size it is. The zipper is reflective. So that's what we know about that. Again, Walmart. That'd be the first place I would look, the local Walmart, because we believe this guy is from Tucson.

Why, his affinity with K-G-U-N and K-O-L-D. Also, he's a guy that goes to TMZ. Who goes to TMZ? There is a very specific, group, a demographic that reads TMZ. I do. Who else does? Look at the backpack. What can we learn from the backpack and it's crammed to the brim? He is not going in to take anything out. He's not in for a robbery or a burglary. He's taking something in for Pete's sake. Let's see the other side, which I find to be very, very demonstrative. The two light,

Look, look, on either shoulder, you can see the light reflectors. That's what they're looking for. An adult-sized backpack with these light reflectors, those shoulder patches he's got on his chest, they're looking for the bala clava, they're looking for the jacket, they're looking for the backpack. The gloves, at first look like boxer's gloves, is he wearing multiple layers?

That said, we understand that that is being done right now. Okay. What do you think about that, Fitzgibbons? No, you're absolutely right, Nancy. And they're, you know, so far as analyzing this video even further, they are breaking apart every single pixel around that mouth and those eyes on every exposed piece behind that mask. Now, obviously it's an uphill battle for whatever softwares and whatever abilities the FBI has, but they've already surprised us one time with recovering this video.

I wouldn't be surprised if they did again. Fitz Gibbons is actually joining us from a scene. He is working. So, Fitz, before you sign off, can I talk to you about facial recognition? because from that video, the FBI can determine, and local law enforcement can do this as well. It's not magic. It's not genius. They can look at this.

They can measure the length, the height of the stones in Nancy Guthrie's porch on our porch. When he first walks in, when he first steps up on that step, and they can determine his height, probably down to about an inch. Okay. Let's see him walk up the porch. Here we go. He's got his head down. That's not helpful. Keep going. Right there. Right there.

When he was walking up and held his head up. Also, you can even get the size of this guy's shoe when he's stepping on those tiles. There's one where he steps directly in the beginning. of the tile. We can get a shoe size. It's already been estimated to be a size 12. His height has been estimated between 5, 11 and 6 feet. Okay, facial recognition. It's used at airports. It's used by people that already have clear to get on to planes. It's used by passport, quick lines, by global entry, all sorts of facial recognition. It's already out there. I mean, look at your iPhone for Pete's sake. That's facial.

recognition. So we need the distance between his eyes from the inner part of the eyes to each other, from the outer part of the eyes to each other, the length of the nose, the width of the face, cheekbone to cheekbone, the link of the face, forehead to chin, and the size of the head. Brian Fitzgibbons, can they do it? I think they have an uphill battle to identify a suspect from these images in this video. However, what they are going to get to, and these are things that you just highlighted, they're going to have these measurements about the eyes, about the mouth, the height, the shoe size, that when they do have a suspect, when they're able, they're going to be able to use this video to confirm that suspect. So it is valuable. They're going to go through this

exercise, and that exercise will turn out to be valuable. What we're missing here is ratios distance between the eyes, eyebrows, chin to nose, you know, these ratios are going to come together on any software for it to actually make that ID. And with that mask, we're obviously missing this. So we're dependent on all the other things, body language, height, shoe size, you know, rough weight and things like that. Joining us now, you know her well. Janine Driver, body language experts, CEO of the Body Language Institute. She is a New York Times bestselling author of, you say more than you think, and you can't lie to me. She's a host of a podcast, a hit podcast called In the Driver's Seat with Janine Driver. Janine, thank you for being with us.

So many things to ask you. I'd like to get to the guy that was caught and released. But right now, he's not a player in this scenario. I want you to look. instead at the guy, the known perp on Nancy Guthrie's porch. What can you tell me? All right, Nancy and listener at home, viewer at home. What the police are looking for most likely right now is, does this man look familiar to you? The way he is moving, we have what's called movement DNA. Look as he walks out here. If you've ever been in a grocery store and you're like, wait a minute, is that my sister or in a movie theater and someone walked by? Like, wait a minute, is that my neighbor? It's we all have movement DNA. There are,

about 9 billion people on the planet. There are 36 billion different ways we can move our bodies that connect to how we make decisions. This man, when walking, if you look at him and you think, he looks like my neighbor, he looks like my cousin, my former babysitter. This looks like a basketball player that I used to coach in high school. I'm telling you, your instinct probably picks up on that movement DNA before someone speaks, before we see their face. The fact that we can see his Body move despite having a mask is incredibly valuable to us. There are 36 billion different ways we move our bodies that connect to how we make decisions and process information. If you have a vibe, look how he tilted to his left right here when he walked up the stairs.

If you know someone who angles more to their left when they're standing, when they're thinking, these are our evaluators. These people tend to stand at diagonals. It's like the scale of justice. These are the people who like a system. This is most likely a man who has created a system before he did this. So if you're looking at this movement, I have a funny feeling police have given us this. So you can say, I can't put my finger on it, but I just feel like some reason this looks like blank, who I know.

Please call the number Nancy's going to give you. Please let police know. No tip is not invaluable to us. At this point, we want to get Nancy Guthrie home. So look at the movement. Pay attention to that slant. Look how he walked down that step off the porch. Does that ring true to you?

Think about it. I have three sons. When they walk in, before I can even see them, I can hear. Is that Jack? Is that you? Charlie, is that you? Angus is that you? Why?

The way we move, we have movement DNA. It is a behavioral fingerprint. Look at this, just like a fingerprint on our thumb. Does this behavioral fingerprint seem familiar to you? If it does, then let us. No. Janine Driver, the author of You Say More Than You Think. I'd also like you to take a look at the siblings, our friend Savannah, that I worked with at Court TV, her sister Annie, and the brother Cameron. What do you see? A lot has been made of their nonverbal behavior online. You're the expert. Yeah, I think a lot of people are tearing apart, Annie, because we're not hearing much from her. And I want to express to you how we look at people who grieve in the most. movies is not what's happening here. This has been over a week. My mother died. I'm the matriarch of my family. I'm the oldest of three. I didn't lose my pool until literally at her grave side when

they played the song, time to say goodbye. I collapsed forward. That was six or seven days after mom passed. These people, this family, the Guthrie family are exhausted. They're up all night. When we judge people's behavior, like we're judging the Guthrie kids here, right? I want you to stop and think, do I have a bias? Because we watch so many movies, Nancy, we have a grieving bias. When I weigh in on cases, whether it was Judge Kavanaugh versus Dr. Ford back in the day, I stop and say, first, Janine, what's my bias? My bias is I had a, I was molested as a kid and I didn't remember all the details. Like Dr. Ford didn't remember all the details. I'm a mother of three sons. I don't want my three sons being found guilty before we even hear what the other person has

to say, so I have a bias here. When we can name our bias, we can make smarter decisions. So for the people who are giving the gut three kids a hard time, especially Annie, just stop. Do you have a quieter sibling? What do you see as a body language expert? What are you reading from their behavior? This is what you do for a living. You're a New York Times bestseller about this. Look at Savannah, right? I've been interviewed by her. She's a good friend of yours. She normally stands up and sits up straight. very poised. She here is leaning forward. We often see this with the family member that feels like I'm responsible to save the situation. When we put our face forward like this, it says, I am paying attention to you. Pay attention to me. I'm hearing what you have to say. When we

show our whole body, now I'm being pulled back. What Savannah is saying is I'm taking this seriously. Listen to me. She uses very special language. Her body language is congruent with someone who is present. her siblings, Cameron and Annie are also, they're grieving, their body language. Annie's looking down emotional. You see sadness in the chin. Sadness is one of the hardest emotions to fake. We see it on Annie's face right here. What we don't see if they were involved in any way and knew what was going on would be contempt, Nancy.

So I appreciate you calling me back to body language. Contempt is this. It's one smirk on one side of our face. Bernie made all fit it. We had a former vice president in the United States doing this move a lot. this is moral superiority. There's seven emotions that we all have, seven, I did the wrong number, and happiness, sadness, fear, surprise, anger, contempt, and disgust. Contempt shows up when someone is keeping a secret and they know something they're not revealing.

Every single person that we have talked about with you, Nancy, over the years, that said they had a missing loved one that then ended up being arrested for killing that person, every single one, from Scott Peterson to Chris Watts, to you name that Jody. areas leaked contempt in these moments. We're not seeing it here and we're not seeing smiling. Well, look at Chris Watts when he did it, it his big huge video when my wife and kids are missing Shanan and Celestine Bella. He's smiling. Where was fear and sadness? Here we have fear and sadness. This is Greek. This is a family who is exhausted holding it together the best they can. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. So we've got searches going down right now on the side of the road. We have searches going down around Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood.

Right now, as we go to air, the good news is Dave Mack, I did not see any cadaver dogs. No, they're actually looking for evidence they believe was tossed out. Now, you mentioned earlier about how you had a case where the person wore other clothing and got rid of it. Well, we looked at this video and you can tell those gloves. He's double wearing gloves, Nancy. Those things are so tight. Other parts of the clothing looks really tight too. It seems obvious he could possibly have been tossing his stuff.

But you know what, Nancy? They're not just in the foothills outside of Nancy Guthrie's house. They are also searching Rio Rico. I'm talking about the FBI and the sheriff's deputies. They're still searching around Rio Rico. Last night where we had the person pulled over. had them searching houses, his garage. Well, they're still searching down there, Nancy.

We can't leave that out. They're searching roadways. Okay, that's telling me something, Dave Mack. Chris McDonough, that's another search happening right now. That tells me that's part of the reason they pulled that guy over. Let's take a listen to the guy pulled over last night. They helped me against my will. They didn't read me my rights until two hours later.

Okay? You know what I'm going on? My wrist is all for a fooling. From the hangout. Did you have any idea that this was about you? No. No. Do you know who Nancy Guthrie is? That is Carlos Palazuelos.

He is a delivery driver for GLS and DoorDash. That tells me something, Chris McDonough. It's not just him. It's the location. That location. They're out there searching. They were interested in him because he loosely fit the description and the location. Yeah, absolutely.

And that may give us an insight into the feds may have some type of digital footprint somewhere. And they're chasing that footprint. But what it also adds is there's a vehicle in play here. And when you see the suspect walking up to the porch, he comes from the area of the driveway. When he first walks up and his heads down, so everything's about identity right there for him. But he's coming from the area of the driveway. When he looks to the left, he's actually looking through the glass portion of the exterior door to see if there's anybody or anything inside that he can see. And so this guy is not

very sophisticated. If you look at his gun holster, that's a revolver holster. It's not a semi-automatic holster. So that also tells us he's not very sophisticated around guns. And the fact that he's wearing multiple layers of gloves, that tells us that's going to be very difficult to get your finger through the trigger area of that gun. So it's almost like he just kind of put this kit on, you know, as if he, you know, wasn't quite familiar with guns, etc., etc. So I can see the feds chasing that down too.

Yes, not sophisticated at all. I've never seen anybody carry a gun like that. And quickly, back out to Josh Coles Rood, did you hear Palazuelos whining? He didn't get his Miranda rights for two hours? He wasn't arrested. But what is he whining about? Yeah, Carlos was detained.

He was not arrested. And when somebody is detained and they're free to leave, like he was told that he was, Miranda warnings are not required. Now, what is required to detain somebody? It's reasonable suspicion. That is, you know, one step below probable cause, which is what police officer. need to arrest somebody. Now, if the police had probable cause, he would never have gotten home last night. He would have been arrested and booked. Now, we don't know why the police officers

were talking to him. It could have been their suspicion that he was connected to the ransom notes or to the kidnapping. But until they give us additional information, we're just going to have to guess. If you know or think you know anything about Nancy Guthrie's disappearance, please dial 1-800-2-2-2-2-2-2. or if you wish to remain anonymous, 520882.7463. Nancy Gray, signing off for tonight. Good night, friend.