Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: DAY 39

Episode Date: March 11, 2026

What can we learn from the sliver of tattoo on "porch guy's" right arm? Turns out, more than you would think. Today, a tattoo artist with over 30 years experience gives us his thoughts.  Joining Nancy Grace today:  Darren “The Dude” Rosa - Tattoo Artist Rising Dragon Tattoos New York City; Instagram: RisingDragonTattos  Dr. Bethany Marshall -  Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker," and featured in hit show "Paris in Love" on Peacock; Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, X: @DrBethanyLive Brian Fitzgibbons – Director of Operations for USPA Nationwide Security (leads a team of investigators specializing in locating missing persons), Marine and Iraq War Veteran; Instagram: @uspa_nationwide_security Scott Eicher- A Founding Member of the FBI’s Cellular Analysis Survey Team (C.A.S.T); Historical Cellular Analysis Expert; Former FBI Agent of 22 Years; Former Police Officer and Homicide Detective with Norfolk Virginia Police Dept. (having served 12 years); Currently with Precision Cellular Analysis Handling Criminal, Defense and Civil Cases Dave Mack - Investigative Reporter, 'Crime Stories' See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie, missing day 39. With so many agents, so much forensic technology. How can we not find an 84-year-old grandma? Tonight, breaking, regarding the tattoo. We've all been studying.

An expert joins us with all of the clues that are left behind because of that one sliver on the perp's wrist. And also, why not release the ransom notes at this juncture? Couldn't the vernacular, the verbiage in that ransom note, reveal to some people who the kidnapper is? How can we trace the email? Was that the way it was conveyed? I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories. I want to thank you for being with us. It's like he didn't expect the camera to be working and then he has to backtrack and try to cover it. He's like, what? Maybe I can beat it to death. And then got the big surprise when maybe he saw the camera blinking.

What we're looking at here is likely some kind of vandalism that took place. Joining us an all-star panel to make sense of what we are learning tonight in a search for Nancy Guthrie. We do know that authorities have asked Mexican residents to pull video. Is that being done

in the Nancy Guthrie case? Joining us right now, a special guest. Darren the dude Rosa. Darren, tattoo artists of rising dragon tattoos in New York City, 30 plus years perfecting artistry in Japanese, fantasy,

American traditional, and bulls, style tattoo at rising dragon.com. Darren the dude, Rosa, thank you for being with us. I know you have carefully studied the perps wrist. Let's see the video of the porch guy approaching the front door of Nancy Guthrie's home there in Tucson, the video. Now, notice he's got his body totally covered, long sleeves, gloves, possibly two sets of gloves, face,

covering the works. Now, wait for it. At some point, he reaches up to dismantle or the door cam or obfuscate his own moves. And when he does that,

much is revealed. Now, we know that the FBI has a tattoo data bank, largely gleaned from gang memberships. It includes jail tattoos, It includes felons that are not members of gangs and their tattoos.

Whenever a person has a tattoo that is entered in writing, in typed writing on their bookend report, every tattoo, every mark on their body, very often those tattoos are photographed at the time of bookend to identify the perp. We also know that Arizona has a gang tattoo database. We also know about tag, tattoo and graffiti, a special elite team in Quantico that analyzes tattoos and graffiti of all sorts, even from foreign countries. Now let's zoom in on the tattoo. Let's zoom in and take a look at the tattoo. the sliver of tattoo between the sleeve and the glove. Straight out to Darren the dude, Rosa, you have studied this, and what, if anything, have you learned? Yeah, well, very interesting.

Watching that footage with you, with you, first of all, it looks like he took, you know, care to cover himself. He's got the hoodie, the gloves. looks like he's right-handed. He keeps preferring that hand when he's trying to cover the ring cam. The very sliver, I see black and gray work. I can see some subtle shading on the edges of the crease. It looks like to me it's most likely a full sleeve, especially because he took. Okay, hold on just a second.

You've gone DefCon 4 on me, Darren. and the dude. I want to talk to you. You said you see black and gray work for those not familiar with the gang affiliation tattoos. What does black and gray mean to you? Oh, okay. Well, it's a prevalent style, especially with the Mexican cartel or the Chicano gangs. They prefer a style where the outline of the tattoo is a single needle and the majority of the tattoo is shaded with levels of black ink we refer to as black and gray. Okay, look at the photo. Tell me what you're saying. I think I know what you're seeing regarding black and gray, but explain to the viewers, please. Okay, well, you know, we can see some form and then.

And on edges, it looks like some shading in between the black forms. You know, just based on the location, New Mexico, California, all of the neighboring states, there's a high prevalence of these kind of gangs. And this is the preferred method of tattooing that they alike. and they appreciate and they also use to identify members of the gang. And I would, you know, besides covering his fingerprints, assume that he also has hands tattoos. And that, you know, like to have your wrist tattooed, people don't normally go out of their way to just have their wrist tattoo.

Most likely he is very heavily tattooed. He has tattoos on his hands. and it's probably a gang of communication at some time. Okay, Darren, the dude, Rosa, joining us from New York City. He is at Rising Dragon tattoos. Okay, Darren, I want to follow up on something that you just said. Sure. You stated that an individual would not go out of their way just to have their wrist tattooed.

What did you mean by that? What I meant by that, you know, and kind of goes to my first point, this guy is, you know, I would put all the money on my pocket that this guy is very heavily tattooed. He has quote unquote sleeves. So I would say we're looking for a heavily tattooed individual. He's wearing the baklava. I, you know, I put more money down and he probably has neck tattoos. This is the, this is the, this. This is, you know, how they like to get tattooed. Okay. Let me see, Darren. Darren Rosa, joining us. I see you have a neck tattoo.

Are you telling me that no one would go either way just to get a wrist tattoo? Therefore, nice. Is that the devil? Is it the devil? I showed my neck tattoos because they're in color. Is that the devil? I know. Is that the devil on your neck?

What is that? Oh, no, that's a dragonhead. Okay, I see it better now. Okay, I'm glad to know it's not Satan himself. Now, back to this. Okay. I agree with you. Every time I have dealt with a defendant or a witness that had anything on the wrist,

it was part of a larger tattoo, always. The only time I've seen a singular wrist tattoo, okay, let's use Angelina Jolie as an example. Okay. Um, maybe a female might get a D-O-B or some little, yeah, they get a little infinity loop or like their grandfather's initials or something. But, you know, this guy is absolutely heavily tattooed. And it's amazing.

Oh, yeah. It's amazing what? That we even got that sliver from that ring camera, like props to the ring camera. Yeah. Tell it. Google. Google did it. So, Darren, you are confident, based on 30 plus years in the tattoo business, that this guy has a full sleeve. Translation, from here up, covering the arm like a sleeve. That's what a sleeve means. He's probably covered everywhere. And especially why, you know, okay, he doesn't want to be seen. He's wearing a Baclava, but I would hand down bet he's also got neck tattoos and probably something near his eye because that's how they run. Just to help you going forward, Baclavah is a nut-based dessert. Okay. Balaclava is the covering. So when you go to a Greek restaurant,

my scholarly thing would be delicious. Okay, back to the tattoo. Do you believe that getting tattoos is addictive? And I've got a reason for asking because you're saying you think this guy's heavily tat. I think it's addictive. Once you start, you like it and then you end up with your whole body covered. Well, there's a lot of different factors. And we have our Bethany, you know, for our behavior analyst. But, I mean, there is endorphins like any people who get addictive to marathon.

races or ultra-marathon races, the runners high. There is something called ink therapy that people who come to us in the winter months who are suffering from seasonal depression come in for ink therapy. Yeah, people most likely get heavy work, but also gangs, cartels get heavy work. The kind of people that would perform this kind of crime get heavy work. Okay. You mentioned black and gray work that you've identified in that sliver of tattoo. That you believe that is part of a particular region's choice.

And what region would that be? That would be the southwestern, right, states. with California, you know, the neighboring states, Arizona, you know, and not to put anything against the Mexican people, but it's a very high population of Mexican immigrants, and those of them who don't get legal work, you know, go to crime and join gangs. It's just a natural evolution. Speaking of crime, I've been looking very carefully at the tattoo, Darren, the dude, and I don't believe it's a jail tat, but you have a different opinion. Explain.

Well, you know, it doesn't look like super clean work. It looks a little fuzzy. I know the whole image is fuzzy, but I would say if it was performed in a penitent. century. They might do makeshift tools. They're not going to use high-grade 316 Japanese steel for their needles. So you're going to get some bleed-throughs on the outlines. It's just how they do it. Well, Darren, I disagree with you. Of course, my law degrees have not prepared me to argue with you sufficiently, but every jail tat I've ever seen was not that delixtable. because they don't have the tools that you were just mentioning the fine precision tattoo tools behind bars. You mentioned penitentiary as opposed to jail.

Do you find more prison tats in the pen versus the local jail? Because I do. Okay, right. Penitentiary means they're going to be there for a long time, correct? So these people, especially if we're talking about cartels or gangs or whatnot, become very sophisticated with their network of who assists them, right, in their daily activities and their income. They're going to be friendly with guards, staff, etc. They're going to have stuff smuggled in or assisted in. And some of the work has become a lot more. I've seen

very sophisticated stuff to rival legal tattoo shops. I've seen very sophisticated stuff come out of patent entry. During, the reason I'm making the subtle but important distinction between jail and pen is because if he's in the pen versus the jail, that gives me another clue as to who he is. Jail. Sure. Jail. Think of Andy of Mayberry. Think of the Fulton County Jail. Think of the local jail. The time you spend in a local jail is less than in the... The pen, the penitentiary, the CIA Correction Institute. Why? You were in the local jail.

You were in the local jail because you've got a misdemeanor and you're doing 12 months or less or you're waiting for your trial or your court date. That's less time for you to smuggle in tattoo, artistry mechanisms. Right. So my point is you got to be there for a while to get all that smuggled into you. So that tells me, if this is a jail, tat, this guy has done hard time in the pen and he's been convicted

as opposed to waiting at the Mayberry lockup with Otis. See what I mean? That's giving me a clue as to who he is. Now, you believe this could be a prison tat? I do not because it's too delicate.

You refer to a Japanese needle. What type of instrument would be used to create a tattoo of this magnitude, a full sleeve of that fine definition? Well, these days, the tattoo machine has evolved into kind of a fat marker like pen and very sophisticated gradations and needles.

These new machines take what we call, they no longer take needle bars. They take cartridges. And some of the better cartridges are using. 316. It's a type of stainless steel, Japanese metal for the needles. So sophisticated tattoos can definitely be performed in the pen. Absolutely. So black and gray work from the southwestern region of the country, the wrist tattoo indicates a full sleeve, a full sleeve, ergo, therefore,

suggest a full body tat. You believe the gloves not only cover up fingerprints, but also an identifying tattoo. Yeah. Would he have tattoos on his hand? Would that be inked? Absolutely.

Absolutely. It's a continuation. I mean, he's got a sleeve. He's got a hand tattoo. And what we're seeing is just the in between. This is the junction. Okay. Let me ask you the million dollar question, literally the 1.2 plus million dollar question,

because that is the amount of the reward for information leading to the whereabouts of Nancy Guthrie. 1.2 plus million dollars on the table. Darren, after looking at this, I want you to think carefully before you answer. could you identify, just make a stab at it, your best estimate as to what this sliver, it's a small portion of a larger tattoo. What is it?

Most likely, you know, if we're going to go with the Chicano gangs and stuff like that, it's going to be angels, cloudwork, family members. it's going to be some kind of in memory, some kind of memorial to either a deceased relative or a friend who died with him on the streets. I'm looking at it. As you're speaking, you said angels, cloud work. What's cloud work? Clouds, heaven.

you know, like in memory of there would be words like to, you know, to my uncle, an angel, maybe some praying hands. All these kind of like Christian

symbolism. That would be my staff. And also, Darren, the dude, Rosa, you mentioned you believe he's right hand dominant. Do people typically get their dominant arm or hand tattooed or no? No.

No, well, if we just go by to people coming in my shop, for some reason, they want to get their left arm done first. Not sure why. It might be this psychological thing to get like the weak arm strengthened because tattoos can be like a symbolism of strength or protection. And that might be why a lot of people tend to get their left side first. If this is his right side and we know it's a full sleeve, that means his left arm, which you probably had tatted first, is also a sleeve. So we got two sleeves and according to your reasoning, a full body. Joining us, Darren the dude Rosa, renowned tattoo artist in that circle at Rising Dragon Tattoo in New York. 30 plus years perfecting artistry in Japanese, fantasy, American traditional and bowl style tattooing.

Any other thoughts on the tattoo, Darren? I would say, like, to repeat, this is going to be heavy work. He's covering up his hands and his neck. I would say all of that is, all of that's tattooed. And he's most likely in a gang affiliation. He mostly had some help. So I would say his true is also heavily tattooed. And Darren, have you ever been approached by law enforcement?

to identify a tattoo on a perm. Yes, I have. Funny, you should ask that question. That's a great question. Many years ago, I would say about 30 years ago, I had FBI approached me with photos of a Long Island perp. This particular serial killer was going after pay for something. sex women and

they all had tattoos actually. Crime stories with Nancy Grace Darren, isn't it true that tattoo artists like yourself have huge catalogs of tattoos

for people to pick from and isn't it also true that the tattoo artist that did this likely did all of his tattoo work and would remain. remember it if they could be found.

Yeah, that's true. The catalog thing doesn't apply so much. I would think if he was in a pen and he was getting, like I said, China tattooed, they were probably, you know, spontaneous, put together with some of those Christian symbols and memorials I talked about. But absolutely, most likely, the guy who tattooed him is also in a penitentiary unless he's gotten out, been released. I wanted to come on and it's been two weeks since our mom was taken. And I just wanted to come on and say that we still have hope.

And we still believe. The Pima County Sheriff's Department has put up a link begging for video. Let's see the link from Pima County Sheriff's Department. It states that the department is urgently requesting assistance in locating Nancy Guthrie. They describe her age, last seen. If you have info, contact Pima County sheriffs. They give the number and they actually give you away. to submit video evidence.

I can't stress how important this is. Straight out to Dave Matt, Crime Stories Investigative Reporter. Tell me about the website set up by Pima County for citizens to hand over surveillance video. Nancy, it's a very simple click to send website. There's a link right there on the page so that people living in the area

or outside that have any kind of video or pictures. that are of interest that they can submit right there online. It's a very simple process. Very wise they did it. I'm just surprised it took so long. But Nancy, right now, law enforcement knows that this crime can be solved, but it's probably caught on video. And it's one of these videos that maybe they didn't think about

or somebody saw and didn't give any credence to. And now they're going, wait a minute, I need to go back and look. That's what law enforcement has been asking of neighbors of neighbors of Nancy Guthrie, you know, please go back and review your video footage. And they actually say urgent, urgent request. Guys, you can find this online. This is from our friends at Fox News, and the reason we're showing it is because a neighbor submitted this video, which behind the porch guy video could be the single strongest

evidence in this case. Trust me, this is being analyzed, blown up, I sewed the works. and it wouldn't be the first time a case was cracked by car surveillance video. Do I have to say Brian Coburger? Let's see that video. He went back to the scene at least 11 times,

but this is the video that I find really interesting. There is video of him cruising around the neighborhood. It's hard for us to make out with a naked eye, but this was enhanced and isolated, to catch his white elantra. Not only there, but a store clerk, like a 7-11, a quick-trip-type convenience store, took it upon herself to go through hours and hours of video

and then call L.E. Law Enforcement when she spots a white elantra speeding by the morning of the murders around 4 a.m. That is where white elantra first. originated from her. Then White Alontera was sent to law enforcement all around the area including Washington State University and Pullman. They plug in who's registered here for a parking permit with a white Alantra? That's the first time the name Brian Coburger emerged. Let's see.

Then of course there's the Caitlin Armstrong case, the so-called glam yoga instructor. There she is. circling, circling multiple times, once wasn't enough. Casing the home of her love rival, a world champion, beautiful young dirt bike racer in her early 20s, she murdered her, she murdered her over a love triangle or so she perceived, caught on video that leads to the yoga. instructor, the glam yoga instructor, as she is called. She looks like Satan to me.

Caitlin Armstrong was convicted of murder. And then, of course, Molly Tibbets, the young co-ed. Studying all day into the evening decides to go for a run. She is approached by this vehicle. See, following her as she's running. She finally threatens to call 911. At that point, the attacks her and murders her, distinctive markings on the side of his vehicle, lead to the killer, and he is convicted. So in this case, to you, Scott Eicher, an urgent plea to the public has now been made.

Submit your video. Can it work? It worked in those cases? It's a fantastic push again. I know they've said it several times, but now they're giving them a quicker way to submit that video. You gotta remember it's probably the older community doesn't know how to get the video off their cameras

or how to provide it. You know, a simple way to get that information to the website. Hopefully that helps or at least have the FBI or the sheriff's office come over and download that stuff for them. I think it could be a very key aspect to the case. We've seen this numerous times.

And as this investigation progresses from the frantic stage of, hey, we've got a missing person to, we've got, you know, now we have a possible kidnapping, to now we're kind of getting into, all right, the forming of a task force. When you form this task force, you're kind of going backwards a little bit to say, all right, we need to regroup. We need to re-examine the data we have now. we need a second set of eyes on it. We need to retriage to all the 40,000 leads that came in and see, did we miss something the first time? And they might start saying, okay, you know what? We're missing video from this area.

Let's make another push to get more video from that area. In a case such as this, you're going to keep that evidence until the case is complete. We never took something and then fixed it and gave it back to the people that we took it from. What were they looking for? Day 39 in the search for Nancy Guthrie, now the FBI using the behavioral analysis team, looking at everything, every identifiable thing,

every mannerism of the porch guy. Straight back out to Brian Fitzgibbon discussed from Director Operations, USPA nationwide security, as to why the ransom note hadn't been released. You say you're not surprised. I am surprised. because at this juncture, what is there to lose?

Yeah, again, I don't believe the FBI will release something if they believe they have something to gain from it. And I think in this case, you know, with these short ransom letters, there's nothing for them to gain and potentially things for them to lose about releasing information about the crime scene that may have not been public yet. Joining us, we're now in psychoanalyst out of the Beverly Hills jurisdiction. Dr. Bethany Marshall, she's the author of Deal Breaker. You can see her now on Peacott and find her at Dr. Bethanymarshal.com.

Dr. Bethany, while the FBI is sifting through over 40,000 tips, they've got the behavioral analysis team looking at his every move, his tattoo, the ransom notes. Why not release them? And what, if anything, have you gleaned? You know, Nancy, those ransom notes are so important because they tell us something about intent. If it's a very short note that's asking for financial remuneration or some kind of money, then that means the intent was just a kidnap for profit. However, if there's some kind of ideology in there,

some kind of a missive or a manifesto, now the intent changes to more of a stocking profile because we know that stalkers cannot help but write about the relationship with the victim and the victim's families, And stalkers do pick up a lot of clues about the victim's life. So the fact that this person knew something inside of Nancy's house, it could tilt either way. Kidnap for profit, proving that she's, they were in there, or kidnap as a part of a stalking, meaning that this perpetrator had gleaned a lot about Nancy Guthrie's life. What do you make of not releasing the ransom notes, Dr. Bethany, because I feel at this juncture,

what is there to lose? I wish they would release the ransom notes. And I'll tell you why. Most people have what I call affectations in their speech. It's a word or a flourish that they use to make what they're talking about seem more important than it really is. And so I think people people who are criminal are sort of rather empty people, grandiose people. They have poor thought, you know, reasoning abilities. So I would guess that there's going to be some kind of an affectation in these notes that would be recognizable to a family member or a friend of the perpetrator. Do you agree or disagree, Dr. Bethany, that the perp likely has a criminal history? You know, what I do think, the fact that they couldn't find him in Codas tells me that

he's in a family comes from a family who's rather unsophisticated. In other words, they're not on 23 and me. They're not doing genealogy research in their leisure time, that it's a very hardworking family whose time is tied up making money. In terms of a criminal history, what I really think, you know, Nancy, I want to talk about the behavior and criminality. When I first saw Porch guy, I felt irritated. And I've examined what.

What was my irritation about? He saunters up to the house as if he owns the place. There's a casual arrogance, which tells me that he has done this before. Either he has a relationship with Nancy and he feels like he has power over her and that's the casual arrogance, or he has targeted old ladies and he's broken into houses before. And that that's where we see the familiarity. On the other hand, he does not anticipate the ring camera, which tells me that if his offending pattern is targeting elderly people who can easily be subdued

and he's not too concerned about, you know, being caught, that he's really been targeting lower income households, which do not have ring cameras so that maybe this guy's offending pattern is that he's becoming emboldened to go into wealthier and wealthier areas where he encounters new scenarios that he had not anticipated. To whoever has her or knows where she is, that it's never too late. And you're not lost or alone. And it is never too late to do the right thing. And we are here.

We believe in the essential goodness of every human being. Good stuff, too. So who would have seen Nancy? Likely a cohort, a compatriot of the kidnapper. If somebody crosses the border, they can take off in any direction they want to go. This person claims that he or she saw Nancy Guthrie in Mexico. Where is Nancy Guthrie? Is she still alive?

Is she in somebody's basement or hidden away in an apartment? Is she eating? Is she sleeping? Did they give her her meds? This, as we learned, civilians have been asked in Mexico to search video. Will that be done in the Nancy Guthrie case? Joining me in all-star panel straight out to Dave Matt Crime Stories investigative reporter, Dave, the latest. Nancy, you know, you mentioned the search and we've got the FBI asking for help. from citizens. They're asking for video. Any video, they're really focused on this, trying to locate anything that leads to Nancy Guthrie. We know that at this point, there has been little in terms of information that has been let out by the local sheriff, Nanos, the FBI, being a little more open about how they're searching for things. As you see that video right there, that video is probably the most important we've seen yet showing two and a half miles away a car going back

and forth away from nancy's house but nancy the fbi seeking help in mexico is what we're hearing now and asking for videos there so this is an ongoing uh not cold at all kind of case and it's just at the point now where you're going what could possibly happen next where do we go now We've got to get help from the public. Guys, you're seeing video that Nanos first said was unrelated, but that now is being analyzed over and over. Also, we understand that the FBI behavioral analysts are reviewing the porch video to determine what they can learn.

This, as the ransom note, is being searched, studied to determine what, if any clue, It can give. Straight out to Scott Eicher, former FBI with the Cellular Analysis Survey Team, homicide in Norfolk, Virginia, now with precision cellular analysis. Scott, I'm very concerned about why the ransom notes have not been released to the public. As Dave Mack was describing so much evidence being kept close to the vest, I'm sure you recall the case of the Unabomber, Ted Kaczynski. He terrorized the country for years with bombs, the unibomber.

And it was only when his manifesto was published in the New York Times did someone, his brother, identify his phraseology. He knew immediately that was his brother. Why has the FBI kept this close to the vest? I don't try to figure out what Nanos is thinking. But wouldn't it help if that was? was released if, in fact, the ransom notes are legitimate? That's the first question.

Is the, are the ransom notes legitimate? And we could obviously say those letters from the Utabomber, his manifesto, were related to him. There was enough information there to say, yes, this is our bomber. Now we can release it to try to identify our suspect. And that worked out great. We had a family member say, I recognize that. That's my crazy brother. Okay, now looking at the case here with Nancy Guthrie,

do we actually really have a ransom letter? Do we have a one that's actually been, you know, tied to the kidnapping, or do we have a bunch of fake ransom letters, people just trying to get money? So the first thing is realizing or being able to determine, yes, this is a real ransom letter related to the case, and you can prove that.

You would start working that hard first, and you get to the end and you say, I can't figure out who this guy is based on the letter, then you ask for the public's help. To Brian Fitzgibbon's joining us, Director of Operations, USAPA nationwide security, leading a team of investigators around the world, including extractions from Mexico,

looking for missing people, former Marine Iraqi War vet. I'm wondering why they are not releasing the verbiage in the ransom note. They don't know whether the ransom note is connected. or not. Have you considered the possibility, Brian, that at the beginning, this was a ransom, a kidnap for ransom, but that at some juncture, they could no longer offer proof of life. So they offered details about Nancy Guthrie's room and the inside of her home, possibly what she was wearing, because they could not send valid, i.e. video or photo, proof of life,

any longer. Have you considered that angle? And if so, wouldn't releasing the ransom note be of great help the way the manifesto in Kaczynski was a great help? I mean, think, think, even in the John Bonnet-Ramese case, the vernacular, the word, the verbiage that was used, the word hints. How many people do you know, except maybe means? occasionally, use the word hints. Hence, that is like waving a red flag to a bull.

Might as well take out an ad on 3rd Avenue in downtown Manhattan. Who uses that? So that is an example. Then another great example would be BTK, buying torture kill, where he taunted, taunted police and local media. His typed, written, letter of taunting was traced back to its typewriter. And trust me, it's not just the key, the key itself, even with a typeball on a, let's just say IBM Selectra.

The ribbon can give you the ransom note or the note sent. There are a million ways to track a ransom note. So help me, Brian Fitzgibbon's. Why? hasn't the FBI released the ransom notes? I'm not surprised by this at all, Nancy. I don't think that the FBI has anything to gain by releasing this,

and I'll explain that for two reasons. One, compare it to Ted Kaczynski's manifesto that was released in 1995. That was 35,000 words, okay? So the chance of somebody seeing an ideology, connecting that back to a person with 35,000 words is very probable. The John Bonnet Ramsey letter that was handwritten, right? There might be somebody who recognizes the handwriting. In this case, these were short, missives sent digitally to TMZ.

The FBI doesn't want to cloud this with copycats being created. Or with that, you know, as they verify this, they don't want that, those pieces of information that were specifically in there being released to the public. We saw some things at the home that were concerning to us. We believe now, after we process that crime scene, that we do in fact have a crime scene, that we do in fact have a crime, and we're asking the community's help. If you know or think you know anything about Nancy Guthrie's disappearance, please dial toll-free 800-225-324.

225-5-324. Or if you wish to remain anonymous, 520882-7463, 520882-7463. There is a 1.2-plus million-dollar reward for information leading to the whereabouts of Nancy Guthrie. An arrest, much less a conviction, is not required for you to get the reward. Cody Cork, U.S. Army Reserve Command, just 35. Killed in a drone strike, Kuwait. American hero, Captain Cody Cork. Nancy Grace, signing off. Goodbye for that.