Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Savannah Guthrie Mom Missing: Day 5

Episode Date: February 6, 2026

The search for Nancy Guthrie now in day five as police update the public about the investigation. Chris Nanos, the Pima County sheriff, said today,  that blood outside the home has been confirmed as Nancy's. No suspect or POI (person of interest) has been named.  An arrest has been made relating to an imposter ransom note.    Joining Nancy Grace today:   Dr. Bethany Marshall  -  Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker," featured in hit show: "Paris in Love" on Peacock, www.drbethanymarshall.com , Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, Twitter: @DrBethanyLive Brian Fitzgibbons - Director of Operations for USPA Nationwide Security,  website: www.uspasecurity.com, Instagram: @uspa_nationwide_security Dave Mack - Investigative Reporter, 'Crime Stories'See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Savannah Guthrie's mother missing day five. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories. I want to thank you for being with us in the last hours. A presser from local law enforcement.

This following literally a heart-breaking plea from Savannah. her sister Annie and brother Cameron, all three looking exhausted, bone weary. We'll play that back for you in full in just a moment, but first to the latest. I want you to hear what the sheriff said in the last hours. I'll go over it with you. You can see it on the board there, but at about 5.32 p.m., these are approximate times. 532 p.m. Nancy travels to her local family's home for dinner and playing games with the family.

Just visiting. At 9.48 p.m., which is very consistent to what we were told by the family, that Nancy was dropped off at home, and we know that because we have a garage door open at approximately, I can't stress that enough, at approximately 9.48 p.m. At 9.50 p.m., that garage door closes. Because that time, we assume that Nancy's home and probably going to bed. Sunday morning, early morning, at 1.47 a.m., the doorbell camera disconnects. At 2.12 a.m., software detects a person on a.m.

But there's no video available. They had no subscription, and therefore it would rewrite itself, kind of, it just kind of loops, right, and covers up. That's what our analysis teams have told us. We're not done with that. We'll do all we can, but that's what it says. It detects a person on a camera. Could that be an animal? I imagine that's possible.

We don't know that. We just have no video. But we're not giving up on that. 228, Nancy's pacemaker app shows that it was a disconnect from the phone. And at 1156 a.m., the family checks on Nancy and discovers her missing. And at 1203 p.m., 9-1 is called in to the Pima County Sheriff's Department. What are we learning? 948, the garage door opens.

950 it closes door cam disconnects 147 so 910 1112 1 1 4 hours later 212 I don't see how they can say this is a coincidence

this is an animal the door cam disconnects at 147 212 software detects a person on camera and I'm going to have to have Fitzgibbiz explain what he's saying about looping and covering it up. 228. Wow, 16 minutes later. Her pacemaker disconnects from the phone, which means simply it goes 20, 30 feet away from her iPhone, which was left there in the home. It doesn't mean

it quit working. It means it got away from the phone. The phone can't trace it anymore. 1156, family checks on Nancy 1203. It's on. Joining me tonight, an all-star panel make sense of what we are learning. Now, we just got that timeline. So much is being made of is one of the family a suspect? And we heard the share of today's state. We don't have a suspect. We don't have a person of interest. Yet everyone is under suspicion. That's what they always say. Everybody is under suspicion. But what would it take, Bethany Marshall, for family members to sit with her that evening, be with her and pretend nothing was going to happen, all the while plotting and planning her kidnapping, faking it.

I just, did you see Savannah Guthrie, Sister Annie, and Brother Cameron? They did not look like any of them were faking it. I know Savannah, she's not faking it. I get a deluge of people online suggesting she is somehow part of this. That's just ridiculous. No, that did not happen. But look at their demeanors, Dr. Beth. And let's just clear that up right now.

Nancy's children are not responsible for this. They are not. I mean, I look at their demeanor, they're distraught, they're concerned. This is their mother. We don't have any history to suggest that they had an antagonistic relationship with their mother. She was invited into the home on a Saturday. night to play games and hang out with the family. This is a beloved mother and grandmother.

Now, what we don't know, and I keep waiting for this, is we don't know about caregivers, gardeners, people who are coming in and out of her life, bankers, financial people. There's somebody in her inner circle, somebody should confides in, maybe outside of her, the sibling group of her children who might know something about somebody who is pestering her, bothering her, somebody she has a suspicion about. And that's what I'm really, really so curious about. And none of that has come out so far. Dr. Bethany, again, I want to look at Savannah, Annie, and Cameron last night.

Again, I am getting deluged with people suggesting that they are somehow part of their own mother's disappearance. They say, look at Annie. She's not moving. she's not saying anything. Well, clearly they designated Savannah to speak. That's what she does for a living. They're numb.

I've got to defend them, Dr. Bethany. They're numb. They're exhausted. That's why they're not lively and chattering in the background. I'm going to use a clinical term. They're dissociated. We dissociate when reality is unbearable. This is unbearable.

Their dear mother is gone. There is blood on the front door. They can't even contemplate. Nancy, you've talked about your mother. If something happened to her, you wouldn't, you would panic, but then you would become numb too, because the possibilities are so overwhelming. They don't know if their mother is being told if she's alive, if she's dead. They can't even feel her through Nancy. That's what we're seeing. You know, I was looking very, you said, I was looking very carefully at that door. photo, the photo of the front door and the stepway, the driveway, walkway, where there's blood,

if you look carefully to the right of that double lock, there is a red smudge. And it's in close proximity to the blood on the ground, on the walkway. Is that Nancy's blood? Now, we've been told, and correct me if I'm wrong, Dave Mack, that there was no blood on the interior of the home that they've been able to identify yet. I would make sure you say yet. They haven't said that it's in there yet, but they did identify the blood right there at the entryway as

being Nancy. Well, if there's blood on the inside, then why haven't they identified that either? And, you know, another thing, joining us guys, Brian Fitzgibbon from USPA nationwide security for a living. He leads a team of investigators that go worldwide finding, missing

people. You can get blood DNA analysis. back overnight, almost immediately. I don't know what they're talking about, that they're waiting on samples. Maybe they've gotten unidentified DNA, and they're trying to get a sample from that. That would take longer. Yeah, I think that there's probably some touch DNA from the inside that they're looking to analyze.

And with now the FBI announcing that they're jointly on this case, the ability to process these things much faster is going to come into play. So, you know, I think in the coming days, we're going to learn a lot more about the thing. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. So the mom is dropped off early in the evening around 9.48. That's when the garage door has activity. 9.50, the garage door closes.

With me, as I mentioned, an all-star panel. Dave Matt, Crime Stories Investigator reporter on this case from the very beginning, Brian Fitzgibbons. I just introduced you to him, USPA nationwide security, and a renowned psychoanalyst, Dr. Bethany Marshall, joining us out of L.A. She's the author of Deal Breakers. You can see her starring on Peacock now and find her at Dr. Bethany Marshall.com.

We're talking about the timeline. Looking at the timeline, 147 a.m. The doorbell disconnects. 147 a.m. the door cam, doorbell cam, disconnects. 2.12 a.m., software detects a person on camera.

But see, the camera part of that has been disconnected. So, while the software is picking up, movement, the cam isn't seeing it. That's how I understand it. But then Brian Fitzgibbon's, he launches into some discussion that it could have been an animal. My question is, why would the door cam disconnect? I mean, look in the picture. There's just a silver circle where the door cam used to be, right? It's that silver thing right there. That's where the door cam used to be. It fit right There, it's gone. Now, what is he trying to say?

What is he saying, Brian? The animal comment was perplexing. I believe what the sheriff is saying is that at 147, that doorbell camera was removed from its base so that there was some digital log in the camera to that effect. Now, at 212, you have to understand a nest camera has three modes, home, away, and off. And in the home mode, it will still register seeing a person and that will log that data in a log that it saw a person, but it won't be recording while in home mode. So, you know, was the camera in home mode? It just logged that event. That's what it seems to be to me. I don't think that these cameras are going to mistake a person for an animal. Most of the cameras nowadays will accurately record, you know,

if they see a dog or deer walk by it, it will record an animal over a person. I've been saying ringbell, it's a nest. You're right, Brian. Now, tell me how that works again. And I want to make what you say and what he said both be true. I want you to reconcile what he said, decipher it, and tell me what happened. What it sounds like to me, Nancy, is that that camera was popped off from the inside of the house. So it does. didn't register seeing anybody. And then when it was moved at 212, it actually sees a person. So I think what we can see, what we can glean from this timeline is the doorbell camera was disconnected off the base. 25 minutes later, that camera is moved and it's pointing in the

direction that it actually registers contact with a person. Let's hear it from the horse's mouth. The doorbell camera, it was removed. We know that, but we're not confirming that any cameras were smashed or destroyed around the house. Okay. All right. Dave Mack, speaking of cameras, quote, around the house, is it your understanding there were granny cams, as I call the ones we have for my mom. You know, there's nanny cams.

I call them granny cams. Cany cams. Were there granny cams in Mrs. Guthrie's home? That is what has been reported, that there were granny cams, as you say, in the home that were there and covering certain areas of the home so that if Mrs. Guthrie were to fall down or becoming incapacitated, they would be, they being the family or whoever had access, which were told a very small group of people had access to the cameras and they could actually see what was taking place inside the home while she was alone. We pointed this out. 84 years old, great mental health. Physically, she's got some issues walking around. So it makes sense that they would have cameras inside the house. Interesting that the sheriff wasn't asked a question about the cameras inside the home. He volunteered that information saying that they didn't, you know, have smashed.

His comment was, I don't know where you're getting that information. Smashed cameras inside that home would indicate somebody was in there that, A, knew the cameras cameras were in existence, knew where they were placed and also knew where they were angled to pick up movement of Mrs. Guthrie inside the home. And that individual or people or persons would have been able to avoid showing up on those camera angles so they wouldn't be picked up. I believe his words were to the effect, no cameras inside the house were destroyed, which tells me that there are cameras inside the house. I mean, am I reading that incorrectly, guys? No, you're absolutely right. That that's exactly what we learned from that statement from the sheriff,

that there are cameras inside the house. He has also, unfortunately, indicated that they don't seem to have any of the footage from those cameras. He mentioned a couple of things. He said something, Brian, about looping and covering itself, looping over and covering up images off someone? What is he saying? Yeah, that I was trying to figure out, Nancy. And my best crack at that is basically maybe it was the mode that this camera was set in, that it was not set to record, but it was logging events, and that they're working with Nest and Google to try to extract that.

Another question I have is that 2.12 a.m. software detects movement on the camera. but the nest has already been disconnected. So I'm trying to reconcile that. Does that mean it picks that movement, but it can no longer record an image or it doesn't record an image, only movement? Could you break it down in simple terms, Brian? Yeah, to explain this simply,

these doorbell cameras will have battery power to them. Okay, so you could disconnect it from that base then an event gets logged, you know, within its software. And then now you've moved it, but it's not seeing any person as it's moving. When you turn that, you know, 25 minutes later, somebody picks it up and it's pointing towards a person, now it's logging that event again, that it saw the person. So it logs it, but is there an image? Because he's saying it loops over.

Did it ever record an image? What I'm getting at, if it ever did record an image, whether it looped over it or not, could that be obtained from the cloud or is it connected to a local server? My assumption would be that it did not record an image. Guys, we're also hearing more about ransom notes. So the ransom note that was distributed to the media did make a demand for 5 p.m. today. and if a transfer wasn't made, then I think a second demand was for next Monday. We're not going to go beyond that, but that was the ransom note the media received.

Well, it seems to me they've missed today's 5 p.m. deadline. So we've got another deadline. You got a question. Did you guys glean that the ransom notes sent to at least two, possibly three news outlets, were the exact same ransom note? That's my understanding as we go to air right now. What about it, Dave Mack? It seems to be that is the case because they being the Sheriff's Department, law enforcement,

has not indicated that they were all different individual. And what is being reported is consistent from all outlets so far. You've got outlets there in Tucson, local TV. But then you've got the national angle of it with TMZ, and they appear to all say the same information. So whether they're identical, I don't. I don't know. But it was emailed to the outlets, and that would be indicative easy enough just to, you know, copy and paste or forward, whatever you want to do. Okay. If it's emailed, why don't we have the IP provider? How are ways that criminals hide the location from which they send an email, Brian?

Yes, so they could use a series of VPNs to protect this, you know, where they created the email accounts. you know, depending on how nuanced they are, they could make this very, very difficult. Now, what I will say is if there's any team, the FBI is probably the best in the world at unwinding that. So, you know, it takes time. And I think that that is something that they're clearly, clearly focused on. Now, when you say VPN, you mean a virtual private network. How does that work? because it seems to me that that could easily be pierced.

You're on your computer and you go to private browser. I mean, how do you do VPN, Brian? No, this would be far more nuanced. In order to hide your identity from the FBI, it would be far more nuanced than subscribing to a VPN service. You would need to have planned out the devices you're going to use, how you're going to connect to the internet, and then layering, filtering that message through multiple devices that might be not located with you. So I'd be unable to predict exactly how they did it,

but my guess is it was a pretty nuanced effort to protect that. So it's more than just an email masking service like a simple login or Firefox relay. It's not just an email masking service. Could you be a little more clear about how it's done? Yeah, I guess the key point that I'm trying to make is if you're going to hide your identity in sending an email from the FBI, it's not going to be a $9.99 a month subscription service that you log into and sign up for. You know, you're going to have to have some pretty advanced technical skills to at least, delay that process.

My bet is that they will be able to find the origin of that email, how long it'll take, I don't know. Bottom line, though, if they find the origin of the email, it could be an internet cafe where somebody goes in in disguise, even though they're recorded, and they log on with a fake email, and they send the ransom. And they send it to the three news outlets,

including TMZ, and K-O-L-D. So how is that going to help me? Can the FBI ultimately pierce that? And when they do pierce it and they find somebody sitting there at Internet Cafe with a disguise on,

then what do they do, Brian? Yeah, I mean, in that example you just gave, that would probably be the safest way. But at least they now know, hey, this person was in this area. And that's where they're going to start to zero in detecting cell phone patterns. was that cell phone near Nancy Guthrie's house.

Now they can start to connect the dots further to try to narrow down who it was, whether they were in a disguise or not. You know, I'm wondering about also pill counts, pill counts. We know that she cannot survive without her meds. What about it? Dr. Bethany Marshall, if the perp knew which way her nest cams were pointed, in order to avoid them, knew to disable the one on the door, managed to escape being caught on camera, sent this by a private network to protect their identity through layers and layers

and filters and filters. The ransom note, would they know enough to take her pills to keep her alive? Pills, meds were there. But how many meds? How many pills? How many pills? You know, Nancy, if you really want to get money for kidnapping, you want a ransom, right? You want to keep the kidnapped person alive. But I think that in a case like this with an elderly person, I don't know that they're thinking that far ahead. I mean, there's some kind of desperation that drives a move like this. I'm thinking about the motivations for a kidnap. You want money, right?

Maybe you're envious. Maybe you hate Savannah Guthrie because she has an incredible career. Maybe like Brian Koberger. Okay, just stop, stop, stop, please, please. I'm not writing a fifth grade girl's novel. She hates Savannah, so she creates a huge plot to cross the country to Tucson, go out in the desert and steal her mother. No. And all this business, oh, it's because Savannah was going to.

to cover Epstein in an un-eared segment? No. I think it's something a little different, Nancy. I think if any connection to Savannah, it's this. They want money. Money. Savannah has money. Exactly. To me, that's very simple.

Nancy, that's the connective line I see too. Money, people, when they see money, they want it. And that's why I was wondering earlier about caregivers, gardeners. anybody in her life, even church members, who knew that Nancy was connected to somebody wealthy and famous and wanting to target that person for their money. As you know Nancy, even like when there's an elderly person who dies in a family, often the surviving sibling group falls apart because somebody in that sibling group wants the money. Money is such a driver behind crime. So who in Nancy's life knew about the wealth that her daughter had and who might have

wanted that wealth? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, another issue that has now been made public by law enforcement. Many media had already heard it and did not report it, including us, was that her pacemaker, dismalion, disres, It disconnected around 228. Now, that, again, does not mean that she died and her pacemaker quit working. It means that, more likely, that she was out of range from her phone, which we know was left behind. What did he say, Dave Mack?

What did you glean? The pacemaker disconnecting from the phone, you know, is connected via Bluetooth, which means, you've got a 20 foot range. It doesn't mean that she was that she passed away. It doesn't mean anything other than her phone was there on the nightstand and she was no longer within 20 feet of that phone. So that's pretty much where they're leaving that particular comment. I'm talking about law enforcement talking about the pacemaker and what it means by disconnecting. It doesn't mean she's, you know, that she fell out. Doesn't mean that she just means that she was no longer within 20 feet. To Brian Fitzgibbons joining us from USPA nationwide security earlier, one of our

experts, Chris McDonough noted that when law enforcement left Sister Annie's house, they had a look like a wooden, but a box with them. He says that that is a you fed. You, the letter you is in Utah, Fed, as in FedEx, which is a tool implementing celebrant. Celebrite analyzes and can download very quickly all digital data from a location. We saw a very in-depth explanation of Celebrite on the witness stand from the Secret Service in the Alex Murdoch case. That's when many people first found out about it. Explain if McDonough is right what they did in Annie's home. Yeah, so this Celebrate-UFED case that the images were shared on social.

media what that what that's able to do is a complete extraction of all mobile phone data contacts SMS messages pictures videos call logs audio files it's going to do a full memory dump of that phone system providing you know even old files that were deleted passwords etc so it's gonna that that kit is a mobile kit that is assigned to that team that they brought there. You know, we can draw some conclusions from that. You know, are they just excluding family members? They want to get an image of those phones in that process.

That's the most likely scenario. Okay, Brian, one more time and slowly. What does the UFED do? Very slowly. How does it work? So the UFED is going to be able to connect to any mobile device and provide a complete extraction. Basically, they're going to get contacts, SMS messages, photos, videos, call logs, any audio files, all the IMEI data.

Anything that's on that SIM card will be imaged by that UFED device. And it gets it immediately. Then it's got to be analyzed. And I'd like to point out to everyone, all you legal, legales already know this. The first place law enforcement looks is at the. closest to the victim. So, of course, they're looking at the family. So the first thing you do is rule them out. Then you move out to people that worked with Nancy Guthrie, people that cut her grass, people that trimmed her trees, people that delivered mail, FedEx guys, UPS, the people next

store, the people in the neighborhood, the people at the grocery store, the people at the church, the granny nannies, if there are any, and the granny nanny sons and the granny nanny husbands, and it goes out and out until you catch the person. Now, this person, I'm telling you, and guys, jump in. It's somebody local, because why would they have sent the ransom notes to K-O-L-D and TMZ, possibly K-G-U-N, because they're local? How would they know? How would they know, where she lived, out literally in the middle of the desert, in this desert enclave. How would they know about the granny cams and the nest cam? Were they watching to see when she was brought home, when that garage door closed? All of this suggests someone that knows her or the family

fairly well or can access that information. Also, yesterday we saw L.E. come back to the scene and go back and forth to the garage with canines. Now we know part of the timeline is the up and down of the garage door. Put all this together. Brian Fitzgibbons, what do you think? Yeah, so with the up and down of the garage door and the timeline, you know, they're certainly going to find out, you know, is that a normal? minute and a half, two minute gap for when Nancy's in and out of the house. If they have that data, they're going to be able to get past data as well to verify that. Nothing jumps off the page to me there.

What I think is really, really a big question about this timeline is with relation to the doorbell camera. There's a 25 minute gap from when that camera was disconnected to when that person has registered, the software detects, a person, right? What happened within that 25 minutes and how was nothing captured by these other cameras inside the house? You know, those are the main, that's the big question. I'm curious, hey, do you see the 212 AM guys, software detects person on camera? Is that the door cam or is that the inside cam where a person is detected on camera? What about it, Dave Mack? Because we know she had a spike in her pacemaker at 2 a.m. Exactly. So we know there's something going on in that house, regardless of what law enforcement is willing to say at this point.

You mentioned that a person appears on camera or motion is detected of a person. It's not a big leap to think we've got action taking place in and around the home and Nancy Guthrie becoming intensely aggravated, moving somewhere, that her pacemaker reacts to that. We've got this very, very tight window here of activity that one can only look at the facts in front of you and say, well, that's when she had to. Something happened to Nancy Guthrie between the time of 147 and 228. Well, let me ask you this. The door cam disconnects 147. At 212, a person is detected on camera. But wait a minute. At 2 a.m. there is entry missing. At 2 a.m. we get a spike on her pacemaker. Does that mean the door cam disconnects? They're in the home at 2 a.m. waking her up,

rousting her out of bed or off the sofa. 2.12 a.m. does software disconnect a.m. Does software detect a person outside or movement inside, taking her out of her bedroom? 228, she's out of range. So what do you believe, Dave Mack, that 2 a.m. spike on her pacemaker indicates? I believe that tied together with the 147 AM indicator that she was roused out of bed. and I believe it was probably very physical to get her out of bed. You know, this is not a person who moves around easily. Somebody inside the home is going to want to get in and out of there quickly.

They're not going to be gentle. They're not going to wake her up with some music. They're going to wake her up to a point where she is going to react, in a state of shock, panic, and fear. So that would make sense. That makes sense for me at 2 a.m. Having that spike 13 minutes after we get the indicator, And again, when you look at what else is coming up, it just shows you that some kind of chaos is taking place and she has reacted to it.

And we know that we have her blood going out of the home. Between the time that we get that first indicator of 147, the 2 AM spike, and then 228. Nancy, it tells you a lot. It was over so quickly, her being taken from the home. What do you make of the 2am spike as it fits into the timeline, Dr. Bellows? Bethany. Well, I agree with Dave Mack. I think that somebody tried to get her out of bed, somebody who was unfamiliar to her. So you have the inner circle. You have adult children. You have maybe the church members. You have people who know her intimately. And then you have the

next outer ring of people who know her intimates. Maybe it's the spouse of the gardener. Maybe it's the, a caregiver or a nurse who comes in and, you know, gives, administers medication and that she goes home and talks to her adult children or something like that. You have an out of the circle, somebody who's she's not that familiar with, who tries to get her out of bed. And that's where you see that spike. So, so Nancy, I'm going to go back to this idea that elderly people are their targets, right? They're very vulnerable and especially when there's wealth and she has a beautiful home. I've seen that neighborhood. All these lots are one to four acres. Anybody who goes through that neighborhood knows that Nancy, that Nancy has money, right?

And so they're enticed by the stories of the people in the inner circle. And they're thinking about how can I utilize Nancy to get some financial gain. And so when you go back to the spike, somebody's getting her out of bed who maybe is tangentially related to her, but is not a primary person in her life. Guys, you're seeing a segment on the Today Show, Savannah and her mom, that was taken off YouTube. It was an Arizona homecoming where Savannah went back home. There's a lot of speculation that whoever plotted this saw this segment and became

aware of Nancy Guthrie. I don't necessarily believe that because I believe the perp is local. Anyway, that is from YouTube. And to you, Fitzgivens, where do you, what do you think the 2 a.m. spike indicates? Yeah, I'm in agreement with Dr. Bethany and Dave that, you know, what we're seeing is likely the perpetrator removed that was, had already gained access to the residence by 147. And I think an important note here that we haven't talked about to conduct an operation like this,

to abduct someone, it's going to take two people, right? There's very likely not one person doing this to pull her out of the house, put her in a vehicle and drive her away. All right? So, you know, I think what you see on the timeline is, hey, take the camera off. The person's now in the house. 2 a.m. is probably when they made first contact with Nancy. And I believe that the data bears that out. And in the middle of all this, trying to finance you gethury and bring her home, alive, an imposter, ransomer emerges. What happened, Dave, Mac? I had the first hint that there was a ransom note when TMZ went live before they went

to police with the note. We have this ransom note appearing at KOLD and KGUN in Tucson. So it's public knowledge that ransom notes have occurred. However, the FBI investigates another ransom note that comes in. Now, this is one we don't know much about. But what we do know is that the FBI made an arrest today, and it was of a ransom hoax. It was not similar to the other ransom notes that had been reported at this point. Suspected it was a hoax, and they were able to arrest that individual trying to take advantage of the worst possible thing for a family to go through right now.

So he's already been arrested. He or she has already been arrested. We haven't got a name or anything else, but we'll find that out. Dave, Matt, you have a concern? I'm really concerned that the home was treated as a crime scene very early on. They, they being law enforcement, did all the work they wanted to do and released the home back to the family. But then yesterday afternoon, we get word that they've got yellow tape up and they have blocked everything off. And law enforcement, they've got FBI, they've got guys in tactical gear and canine units are out at the site again. and it's an explosion of activity after the place the home has already been released back to the family.

That bothers me immensely because I wonder what did they miss the first time, and why is it all of a sudden becoming a big issue again? Well, obviously, and chime in, Fitzgibbons, if you disagree, they should never have released the crime scene. The crime scene should not be open now. It should be locked down. Everybody and their sister can go over there and poke around. why has it been released?

I think it's a horrible idea. What about it? And that opens up claims from an ultimate defense team that someone else came in and tampered with the scene and planted evidence. That's where that goes, Brian. I couldn't agree more. That scene should have been held and not released to the family. That scene should still be held.

And Sheriff Chris Nato said as much today in the press conference that that was a mistake. What he tried to explain it away with is that the FBI joined the case and they wanted to get a fresh look at the crime scene themselves, which is certainly a natural thing. You know, that was a mistake. It's a Monday morning quarterback, as he said, but they definitely should have held that scene. Did you pick up on what Savannah was saying? Oh, guys, that video was for our friends at 12 News. Did you pick up on what Savannah was saying about AI, artificial images, artificial intelligence being used to create a photo or video of Nancy Guthrie?

Does that indicate to you that the ransom notes had some sort of an image on them, Brian? That was the very first thought that came to my mind when I heard that comment, is that there must have been some kind of image or video. included in that ransom note. And what Savannah was expressing is, hey, we need more. We need real proof of life, which in today's day and age with AI and the ability for deep fakes is going to have to be closely coordinated with the FBI to have some kind of two-way live video call, maybe on an encrypted channel that the FBI creates. Speaking of Savannah's plea to...

the kidnapper. On behalf of our family, we want to thank all of you for the prayers for our beloved mom, Nancy. We feel them, and we continue to believe that she feels them too. Our mom is a kind, faithful, loyal, fiercely loving woman of goodness and light. She is funny, spunky. and clever. She has grandchildren that adore her and crowd around her and cover her with kisses. She loves fun and adventure. She is a devoted friend. She is full of kindness and knowledge. Talk to her and you'll see. The light is missing from our lives. Nancy is our mother.

We are her children She is our beacon She holds fast To joy in all of life's circumstances She chooses joy day after day Despite having already passed through Great trials of pain and grief We are always going to be merely human

just normal human people who need our mom. Mama, mama, if you're listening, we need you to come home, we miss you. Our mom is our heart and our home. She is 84 years old. Her health, her heart is fragile. She lives in constant pain. She is without any medicine. and she needs it to survive.

She needs it not to suffer. We too have heard the reports about a ransom letter in the media. As a family, we are doing everything that we can. We are ready to talk. However, we live in a world where voices and images are easily manipulated. We need to know without a doubt that she is alive and that you have her. We want to hear from you and we are ready to listen.

Please reach out to us. Mommy, if you are hearing this, you are a strong woman. You are God's precious daughter, Nancy. We believe and know that even in this valley, he is with you. Everyone is looking for you, Mommy, everywhere. We will not rest. Your children will not rest

until we are together again. We speak to you every moment and we pray without ceasing and we rejoice in advance for the day that we hold you in our arms again. We love you, Mom. We love you, Mom.

We love you, Mom. Stay strong. We love your mom. We love. If you know or think you know anything about Nancy Guthrie's disappearance, please dial 520-351-4-900. There is now a $50,000 reward from the FBI. That number toll-free, 800-225-5-3-24. If you wish to remain anonymous,

please dial 520-882-7463. Repeat, anonymous tips. 520882-7463. Thanks to our guests, but especially you for being with us. And please join us in prayer as we pray for the return of Mrs. Guthrie, 84 years old. Nancy Grace signing off. I'll see you tomorrow night.

And until then, good night, friend. This is an I-Heart podcast, Guaranteed Human.