Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Savannah Guthrie Mom Missing: Neighbor Speaks Out

Episode Date: March 29, 2026

As the search for Nancy Guthrie continues, a neighbor speaks out about late night activity that disturbed his normally docile dogs, possibly indicating the time where the kidnapping took place.  Could the dog agitation be caused by a jammer frequency?  We have learned that the home's back door was propped open and blood also found inside. Does this mean there were more participants than "porch guy."See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie, missing. One of her neighbors joins us to tell us his recollection of what went down that night and of his recollection of Mrs. Guthrie herself. Also tonight, mysterious ridges seen in the front of Nancy Guthrie's yard. What, if anything, do they mean and were they preserved?

This is a careful look at the porch guy video. Does it reveal headlights over his shoulder? And tonight was a lock pick or a lock pick gun used to penetrate Nancy Guthrie's home? And can we analyze that and use it as evidence? Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. is crime stories. I want to thank you for being with us. The feds are now trying to question work crews on a construction site. People just don't go in there and randomly dump stuff.

They do have the thing broken up into grids. You have equipment that runs over the stuff to kind of pack it down and that creates an absolute nightmare for investigators when they go out there to begin to search. I'm very anxious to get to the ridges that were seen in front of Nancy Guthrie's home. Can I just see that very quickly, please, control room, as well as what's revealed by a careful look at the porch guy, lights, possibly headlights over his shoulder. But first, I want to go to a special guest joining us, a neighbor of Nancy Guthrie's. It's Jeff Lemmy, who woke up that night in the early morning hours, and he very often passes Mrs. Guthrie on their neighborhood strolls.

Mr. Lemay, thank you for being with us. For sure, for sure. Glad to be here. I, you know what? I'm so glad you said that, because in my world of investigating and prosecuting nothing but violent felonies for so many years, you wouldn't believe it, Mr. Lemay, of how many people, quote, don't want to get involved. They don't come forward. They don't say anything. And they feel okay with that.

I will never understand it. First, I'm sure the FBI has quizzed you extensively. But I just want to hear at the beginning of your encounters with Mrs. Guthrie when you would both be out strolling the neighborhood. We would see her when we were walking her dogs. She had a dog at one time also. And greet her. she was just a person who lived here, a pleasant, wonderful neighbor, and we're so saddened, of course. Sadden isn't even the word, a heartbroken about what's happened.

I guess you're also fed up with the ghouls showing up in your neighborhood in hot pants and stripper shoes to take photos in front of Mrs. Guthrie's home. It's sick. But before I go off on a tangent that gets me nowhere and proves nothing, That night, Jeff Lemmy, that night, what happened? Well, preceding the event, there were some evenings where our dogs woke up, which was highly unusual. We don't know if there's a correlation. I know the FBI and the investigators have asked for cameras and camera footage. All the neighbors have shared camera footage and any recollection they have.

But the next day, we were surprised when there were helicopters above flying through the neighborhood, a large response of sheriff's department, a volunteer crew of community members who do rescue in the mountains of hikers who came and scoured the neighborhood. And initially, we were wondering what was going on, and then we found out it was our neighbor, which obviously is horrible. You stated that you live four homes down from Mrs. Guthrie. Is that correct? Yes.

Now, your dogs often, as just mine, want to go out in the middle of the night to use bathroom. That night, did your dog go out? Yeah, that was where actually I sort of, one of our dogs I have to rouse in the morning is a deep sleeper. There were some nights in question where the investors, have asked us about certain evenings and if we've seen anything unusual. And once again, it could be coincidence, it could be nothing. I'm not an investigator. I'm a layperson.

But the dogs did rouse and I took them out. There is an image of me on camera. I did heard nothing or saw nothing. But, you know, animals can be, especially dogs, can be hyper sensitive. And we don't know if there's a correlation. We've shared it. And whether it helps with timeline or in any way, we hope it is of some value. What time was that, Jeff Lemieux?

Gosh, it was, I'm working from memory. It may have been a little bit past 1 a.m. You know, Jeff Lemieux, you really hit the nail on the head because after everything calms down at night and everything settles and the kitchen is clean. and we'll be sitting there, you know, watching something on TV, maybe. And our dog, fat boy, will go insane. And then we find out, like two minutes later, a delivery was made at the front porch or somebody then opens the back door.

Maybe one of the granny nannies is coming in or out. But he hears it or smells it long before we do. So I want you to tell me, Again, and the reason I'm so interested, Jeff, is because I personally have investigated cases where the dog was the initial trigger, raised the first alarm, and there have been many in real life. This is one everybody knows, so I use it a lot, the OJ Simpson case. The neighbors heard the dog, Akita, issue a, as they say, plaintiff well. They had never heard the dog do before.

and this was around the time Simpson was murdering Nicole and Ron. So the dog was the first alarm. Now, I'm very curious. Tell me exactly what happened. Sure. As I've mentioned, our dogs are usually sound slivers. Full confession, when the dog woke me up to say, I've got to go outside. I was grudgingly accommodating and took the dog out to our little courtyard.

in the back of our house. And it was unusual. And it's seldom happens. And we've gone back to the other dates that we've been asked about to see if there's a correlation. And as mentioned, shared this information. But animals, especially dogs, can be so sensitive and kind of work on a different realm with smell, hearing, et cetera.

And we hope it's of some help. We don't know. Now, you said something was unusual. What was unusual? Oh, just waking me up at that hour. You know, that would be, you know, once again, that's what was atypical. It actually, you know, it hasn't happened since. You know, they are usually sound sleepers, take them out before heading to bed and taking them out first thing in the morning. So this was kind of unusual. I don't know if they've heard something, smelled something, sense something, and something. some way. So we've obviously provided that information, and I don't know if it's of help, but we hope it

is. Jeff Lemieux, let me throw this on you, as I've told me in a jury, there is no coincidence in criminal law. There's just not. Coincidence has happened in life, but in my experience, not in criminal cases, much less a kidnap or worse. So at first I didn't understand that this was unusual. I thought your dogs wanted to go out in the middle of the night all the time like mine does.

I think I was projecting, which is never a good thing for a trial lawyer to do. So this is becoming more important in my mind because your dogs don't normally do that. I would like to also share with you that the best witness I ever put on the stand. and I practiced for 14 years as a Fed and a violent felony prosecutor was a dog. Best witness I ever put on the stand. That said, now this is becoming more significant because your dogs don't normally get up in the middle of the night. I thought that they did because I was projecting. But that night, Mrs. Guthrie, is kidnapped.

Your dogs get up and want to go outside. Is that correct? Yeah, and also some of the other evenings that we've been questioned about. I'm working from memory again. I believe January 11th was another date that was in question. So we had this activity at that time. And human nature, we just followed away and didn't really think about this until we were asked to review our video and then had this recollection and saw this correlation, which was

very unusual. So did you review your video and what, if anything, did you see? Yeah, I once again, not only reviewed it, but provided it to the sheriff's department and FBI. And once again, every neighbor has done this. I mean, there's been a robust, wholehearted support from everyone in this community for this investigation and have provided that data points, you know, once again, they can see the perhaps, once again, I don't know. it could help with time frame if in fact it could that would be a wonderful thing if it provides any value if there was someone did you see anything on the video from gn 11 just the dogs waking us up

with the way our cameras are situated and this has been i think a frustration is everyone seems to have a ring or some sort of system but with the size of the lots and where the cameras are situated, they capture your home and entrance points, but they do not capture much beyond that. There's heavy, dense brush here, cactus, palaverides, et cetera. So part of the challenge has been you can see beautiful views of our courtyard, front door, garage, et cetera, but not much beyond that. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Let me understand.

something, Jeff. And of course, I would have this all nailed down if I were putting you on the stand. And forgive me if I keep asking the same question over and over. But on January 11, you see nothing out in the yard, as you've just explained, where your cameras are trained. But having reviewed January 11th video at the request of the FBI, you realize that on January 11 and January 31, both nights your dogs are. uncharacteristically, wanted to go outside?

Yes. And that was very atypical. Yes. When they went outside, you said they went to the back or the front? It's the rear of our home, where we have a courtyard that abuts our bedroom. Okay. Got it. Rear of home.

Is there a cut, a shortcut? Sure. Do people walk that way? to get toward Nancy Guthrie's home? Or could they? Could they? It is fairly dense. We can see her home, the top of her home from the rear of our house.

And it is, I'm just guesstimating maybe 150 yards away. But it is very dense cactus, rock, dense brush. From my layperson's perspective, it would be a challenge. Unless someone had mapped it out, ahead of time. There are what? Oh, and there are, there's an abutting cul-de-sac towards the rear. There's a service road that connects to the, you'll see, actually, it's wonderful the graphics you're putting up, where you can see how someone could walk perhaps through the service yard to a cul-de-sac,

perhaps around and about. There's a service route behind your home that leads to a cul-de-sac that leads to Nancy's home. Is that what I'm most- Alongside our home, along the side or home where you would have to physically cut through someone's property, but then could lead to a cul-de-sac. My understanding was years ago, school kids would use it as a kind of a way to grab the school bus, and they would cut through that area. That's my understanding. But once again, directly from our home to Nancy's house, it would be rough brush, especially in the dark. So wait, I'm curious. You just said that, guys, that video we were showing you earlier, the aerial video was from our friends at 12 News.

I want to go back to the photo. I want to understand where Jeff Lemmy lives on this picture. But you stated that for a long time, school children would use a cut through the back, through the scrub, through the brush, down the service road, maybe to get to the school bus instead of going on the street, is that correct? Sure. My understanding, this is what neighbors have told us, is people would use a service road, sort of cut through someone's property very slightly, and then go to a cul-de-sac that abuts the back of our yard. But not the- And that would get you closer to Nancy's home? Perhaps someone could take a different route to her home through that, through that, through that, through that,

through that avenue. Got it. Now, when your dogs go out at night, Jeff, do they lead you to the back or to the front or do you lead them? But my dog wakes up, he sleeps right beside me in his own little bed, by the bed, I have to take him to a certain door. I lead him to a certain door because I know I can get him in more quickly if I go out that door and it can be any time of the day or night. So did you lead the dog to the back or did the dog lead you? Sure. So it's a courtyard that abuts the bedroom that's pop the door open, take the dog out, and it's right there.

So it's the most natural point to be, and that's where we always take the dogs. When your dog went out on Jan 31 and Jan 11, what did the dog do to continue barking? No barking, but I saw on video the dog sort of looking off to the distance and sort of very focused for a moment. It was fascinating, actually. And then moving on to moving on. Now, once again, in my days, my fugue state past 1 a.m., I did not take note of any of this at the time and took the dog back in and went back to bed. You know, once again, we don't know what was occurring, but it says some information to provide of some value we hope to the investigation.

Jeff, can you look at that overhead and tell me which home is yours as it relates to Mrs. Guthrie's? So we would be, if you leave Nancy's house, take a right and the immediate next right were on that street at the end of the end. of the street. So if you count, so hold on. I'm trying to digest this. We see the red marker on the screen on her home. So you go forward, which in this picture would be up. You'd make an immediate right

and then your first right and go one, two, three, four houses away. One, two, three. Yes. Yes, perfect. Perfectly said. Got it. It's kind of a little square with the driveway to its left. I see. I see, actually, what would be the cut through? See it behind your home?

Yeah, so it's alongside our home. It's a utility road for the power company. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Now that I'm talking to you, I see that. Now, Jeff, question, we keep hearing about a vacant home. where is the vacant home as it relates to Mrs. Guthrie's home? So that is cat a corner to our house across the street? The one with the beige gray roof, that one kind of to the left of your home a little bit?

Yes. Aha, that's the vacant home. Wow, that is right around the corner from Mrs. Guthrie. I've been wondering, where's the vacant home? answer. Okay, what about construction? Where is the construction that's happening in the neighborhood? So that actually is, if you're on Escalante, and you directly stare from Nancy's home up the street. That kind of, there's a cul-the-sec above, if on this, on this camera view, above her street, you'll see a white-roofed house at the very, very,

very top of that cul-de-sac, that's where construction is occurring. Mr. LeMay, do you recall any power outage either on Jan 31 or Jan 11? You know, this is, once again, all this information has been provided to the authorities. Two of our cameras were, quote-unquote, offline during this time, which really surprised us. I can't say whether or not that was a coincidence that the cameras were out and offline. I mean, once again, that's for the investigators to determine. But they were. How did you learn, Jeff, that your cameras, how did you learn that there were outages on 11 and 31?

We learned that when we were reviewing the data with the investigators and saw this notation that there was an offline camera, two offline cameras. Jeff, who first came to your home asking for information? The feds? FBI walked our yard. We actually had a conversation about the rear yard and walked the scrub, so to speak, to see how inhospitable it was. And they put an opportunity to assess that. But we've had multiple visits from both, but the initial visit was from the Sheriff's Department. Jeff, did you ever notice an individual that didn't live in your neighborhood the way another neighbor has? Or did you notice a vehicle parked in the area for an extended period of time? We did notice a vehicle. My wife shared that information, but it was a very dim recollection.

The Saturday evening, early evening, when walking the dogs, we noticed a car parked on Escalante. We shared whatever data we had, but we all do this. It's human nature. You see something, but you want to be accurate in the details you provide and really couldn't provide much else. You know, it's just something that we noticed. Could you put the overhead up really quickly for me? Jeff, we're on Escalante, which is Mrs. Guthrie's Street, was the vehicle parked? So if you continue past Nancy's home, there is a little area where people, when they walk their dogs in her neighborhood,

in my park. It's sort of a little area of maybe I'm going to estimate 50 yards down on the right hand side. There's a little cut out with gravel where people park their vehicles. And we noticed a car there. And so we noticed a vehicle. But once again, we share that information. We did not notice anyone, any individuals walking around. I know other neighbors have. Are you and or your neighbors afraid? We're unsettled. Most of all, you've seen the yellow ribbons, the angels on the Palaverde trees, the concern for someone who lives in our neighborhood, who a horrible thing happened to, the concern for the family who are going through a horrific heart-wrenching ordeal. most of all people are concerned about the neighbor, and it is unsettling that something like this occurred.

Jeff Lemay, neighbor of Nancy Guthrie, speaking out in an effort to help the search. Thank you, Mr. Lemay. Thank you. Tonight we are learning that there is another line of investigation that centers around ridges in front of Nancy Guthrie. He's home. This particular one is from Susie DeBay X. Straight out to Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,

author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and Star of a Hit series, podcast, Bodybags with Joseph Scott Morgan, but more importantly, death investigator, with over 10,000 death scenes under his belt. What do you make of the, ridges and can a cast be made of that? We have learned the FBI, may have failed at getting a cast. I think I know why, but I want your analysis. Let's see it again. Yeah. So as you're seeing these ridges, Nancy, you can see the composition out here is, to say the

very least, is uneven. And also this rock aggregate that's there is going to create quite a problem if you want to do a cast. But one thing that we can draw from the so-called ridges is the idea of a wheelbase. This is something that we use when we're trying to assess tire tracks on motor vehicles. Now, obviously, this is not a motor vehicle. But if you begin to think about something, say, for instance, like a wheelchair, all right? You've got two parallel lines that are running in one specific direction. As a matter of fact, you take a look at it. It stays quite linear. It It doesn't curve. It doesn't stay off the center here.

The idea with wheel base, though, Nancy, is to try to assess what the distance is between the center mass of where the actual wheels are making contact in those ruts. Let's use the term ruts because that's a term that we would normally use. So with that information alone, you can take that and you can begin to assess what product out there would create these images or, these ruts that are being left behind that can be imaged. Can you actually say that this originated from this particular item? Probably not, but it can at least put you in the ballpark.

Now, I have to add this one comment here, because of the level or lack thereof of security at the scene, we don't necessarily know what left these behind or who is more accurate. Who left these behind? could it be a perpetrator that is removing Mrs. Guthrie from the home? Or could it actually be someone like, I don't know, a crime scene person that's dragging a kit behind them? And those ruts could actually match up with that. Could the tracks be from a wheelchair, from a wheelbarrow, from some device used to move Mrs. Guthrie?

And the video we were showing you earlier, guys, is from our friends at 12 News. The reason I'm talking to you about this, Joe Scott, not you're a wheelbarrow expert, but you are a blood expert. And we know the blood ends at a certain point, and those tracks pick up at that point. See what you're going? Yeah, it's intellectually. Is she put in a wheelchair? Very compelling.

Yeah, it actually is. Here's something else that you might want to consider, too. Do you have matching sets, or do you have two sets of, of these of these ruts all right if so do they give an indication that you have a set that perhaps was not bearing weight before and then afterwards it is bearing weight and also going to the blood trail is there is there concurrence between where the blood trail ends and these ruts pick up because that that's a fascinating question scientifically also and you asked you asked me a question just a second ago about wheelchairs and wheelbarrows and this sort of thing.

And this I can tell you. Yeah, there's a type of wheelbarrow out there that actually does have two wheels, but the width of those tires on this thing are rather robust. This is not what you're looking at. You're looking at something that's very, very narrow. And of course, just like when we think about furrows in the neck of somebody that has been asphyxiated, remember the smaller, the gauge, the deeper, the ruts. or the deeper the furrow, here the more narrow, more narrow the rut,

you're going to talk about something that has a very, very tight gauge on it that can actually go down into the surface. The idea here is to try to understand was it bearing weight at that particular time? But part of this just seems rather cumbersome. Hey, hey, Joe Scott, look at this again. One, I've been asked, do these ridges suggest she was dragged? I don't see that. I see actual wheel marks.

But what about a wagon? Yeah, I suppose a wagon. But again, okay, this is what you would need to do. There are garden wagons out there that people utilize. I don't know what kind of utility it would have. And also, again, you would have to go back to the wheels or the tires on these things to see if they marry up with the width dimensions on the actual ruts themselves. Okay, so we've got two measurements we're looking at here. We've got wheelbase and then we've got the width of the rut itself and then the depth.

That's a third measurement. There's been a lot of photos regarding tracks from her home. This particular one is from Susie DeBay X. Susie Dubay X and I really liked it when I saw it. Can I get a close up again? It was part of the blood video because you're not going to get any cast, I don't think, out of gravel. Now, see, this is where the blood starts, but when you look at this video as opposed to the

still photos, you see how far along the blood went. I didn't ever hear Joe Scott about any blood being in that portion. It's gravel in cement, and you're not going to get a cast off that. No, not in that particular area. No, that's some kind of aggregate that has some kind of cement to it. So no, you're not going to pick up anything. Now, you can look at it and see it there. And by the way, that videos from our friends at Fox News. Go ahead, dear. Yeah. So looking, looking where these ruts are, Nancy, when you take a look

at that, the composition looks like gravel to me or it's got some, you know, some kind of aggregate of gravel. I don't think that it's cemented down. However, just imagine if we poured a cast into that area, we actually use, people might not know this, we use dental stone in order to facilitate these casts, which is kind of made out of gypsum. And so when you let that dry, guess what you're going to pull up? You're going to pull up a big mass of gravel at that point. Tom, it's nothing you can actually read. So then our info that the feds could not get a cast of the tire marks or any shoe marks, and the gravel is correct? Yeah, yeah. So based upon this image that I'm seeing. And again,

Qualifier, these are not crime scene images. But when you take a look at that and you think about the composition of it, they would say there's no utility in it. There's not going to have any value. The best thing you can do is photograph, photograph, photograph, photograph, photograph, photograph.

Crime stories with Nancy Grace. If you take a look at Porch Guy, not only that is a careful look, seem to reveal headlights, over his shoulder, possibly from a vehicle. Now, take a look, and this is from Blue Star 812-X.

Blue Star 812-slash-X. In addition to possible headlights in the background, I want to talk to guest Terry Winn-Yates, aka Mr. Locksmith, third-generation, Master locksmith, over 25 years experience and expert in picking locks. I'm not going to ask too many questions about how you became an expert in picking locks. On YouTube, he is at 24-hour Mr. Locksmith, his website, Mr. Locksmith.com, Mr. Prolock.com. Mr. Wyn Yates, thank you for being with us.

Explain to me how a lock pick could be used because we've heard so much. one perp come in through the back door while the other perp or a single perp came in through the front door. We've been told that the wrought iron screen door

would be impenetrable. Let's take a look at that lock on Mrs. Guthrie's wrought iron door. Mr. Wynne Yates can a lock pick break through this lock and how? An amateur could open that lock in minutes, a professional in seconds.

The top deadbolt and the bottom key and knob is what we train our locksmiths. That's the first locks they play with. They learn how to pick that. Within the hour, they're picking those locks. It's not a high security lock at all. Terry Wynne-Yates, you're telling me, and by the way, this is video from Mr. Locksmith on YouTube. We're showing you how it's done. but could you explain it, Mr. Wyn Yates?

To pick the lock, first of all, it has to be a lock that's not high security. So if it's a regular house lock, business lock, what, etc. You apply turning pressure, and then there's a couple of different methods of picking. One is raking. You sort of rake the pick in and out as you apply tension. The other method is what we call SPP or single pin picking. And that's when you become more advanced. and you can pick the lock one pin at a time.

And there's five pins. And the lock that you showed me the picture, there's five pins. And it's a pretty simple lock to pick. Let's see Mrs. Guthrie's lock again, please control room. So Terry Wyniates, you're telling me that even an amateur could break into this with a lock pick? They don't have to break anything.

There's several methods to open that lock. it's extremely easy to pick open, extremely easy. And that's what we start our beginners with. And within the hour, they're picking that lock. And the bottom lock has... So all this business about this door being impenetrable is all BS, technical legal term, right? Totally. Terry Wing-Yates, what about a lock-pick gun?

Yeah, it's basically just a spring with a little pick, like a straight pick on it, spring steel, and it's just like bumping the lock. Yeah. And when you put it in there, a couple clicks and apply tension, put in the pick gun, the readily available all over the internet. And you can pick the lock in seconds. It's just... And the other method, the pick gun is similar to what we call.

call a bump key. So you told me earlier that a lock-pick gun is kind of old-school. It's not been used much anymore. Well, there's better methods, but it's very simple to teach people that one reason you don't like it in certain methods is covert is it makes some noise. It goes bang, bang, bang, you know, click, click. So it can make some noise. If you want to be quiet, use a regular lock pick or some of the more advanced methods to pick the lock. Straight out to Brian, Gibbons joining us tonight, Director of Operations USPA nationwide security, leading a team of investigators around the world to find and extract missing people, former Marine Iraqi War vet. I'd like you to turn your attention, Brian, toward the, what seems to be

headlights behind the porch guy. Look at that. And also, control them if you will pull up the video, where a pointer is actually pointing to the lights. So, Brian Fitzgibbon's, does this mean there is an accomplice? And that's from our friend Blue Star 812 on X. Yeah, I think, listen, does this piece of video mean that there's an accomplice? Not necessarily.

However, right, logic tells us that removing Mrs. Guthrie from the house evading all sorts of detection throughout this process leads us to think there has to be more than one person involved and that they would require a vehicle to move her away from her residence

100%. Hey, hold on, hold on, Fitz, look. Fitz, look. Watch it again. He looks back directly at those headlights. Did you see that? Wait, let's play that again in its entirety of this particular. See him look back? I did not notice that the first time. What about that, Fitz?

There's been a number of really good breakdowns done in the online sleuth community, seeing this, what appears to be some communication from the perp on the porch, back in the direction of what appears to be headlights going off. So that is certainly, you know, an interesting point there. You know, Brian, other theories have emerged that, and this is from a retired FBI, that there are up to five accomplices. I find the five to be unbelievable because with five people, somebody's going to crack or some wife, girlfriend, neighbor is going to blab. Five way too many. What's your thought?

I share that with a $1.2 million. reward and five people associated in a conspiracy, it's very unlikely that they can keep things that tight without somebody leaking information or going to law enforcement. I think it's more likely that two or three were involved here, at least a second person to bring up a vehicle and one to make entry into the home and bring out Mrs. Guthrie. Brian Fitzgibbens, you were were listening as Jeff Lemay was describing that school kid cut through that was used, I find that very, very interesting. Yeah, so this cut through, and you can view it and zoom in on the map,

you would have pretty good concealment to move on foot to the southeast and gain access to Mrs. Guthrie's property from her backyard. That cut through seems relatively navigable at night, you know, with that dirt road there and would have good cover and concealment from cameras on the backyards of these properties. Joining me now, Todd Shipley, Digital Cybercrime Expert, former Detective Sergeant Reno Nevada, 25 years in law enforcement, author of surviving a cyber attack, and author of investigating internet crimes. You can find him at dark intel. info. Todd, you have been listening very carefully. Here's the question regarding your expertise. We know that Mrs. Guffer, had cameras in her backyard, including one up on a post. Do you believe there is more video or images to be found, and they're just trying to recover them?

Because we keep hearing shifting stories from nanos, suggesting there's nothing else, and then suddenly there is something else. Well, I think you're right. I think there is more to be gotten out of this. That's evident by the fact that they had this other video that they classified. from January 11th, that all of a sudden showed up. But I think one of the things about the current video and the lights you're seeing in there is the bias that law enforcement has shown in their review of that video.

And I mean that they focused on the person in the video because that was what they see and didn't look at the background. And so oftentimes when we're looking at these things, we have to look at the bigger picture. And they didn't do that. They focused on the guy. They focused on that he had a gun. They focused on, you know, what was up his sleeve, whether it was a watcher or tattoo, all these things and missed the fact that there was something in the background that was there that came out through crowdsourcing by somebody on X or, you know, through social media, which should have been one of the first things that they looked at when they looked at that video, what's going on. So there's a bunch of information I think still exists that law enforcement hasn't either gotten to or has not released to us, obviously.

Todd Shipley, what is your other observation tonight? Well, one of the things that we've not seen yet from the releases by the FBI or the Sheriff's Department is the metadata regarding these videos. Metadata is data that describes other data. When you take a picture, you take a video, there's data that is collected by the camera that describes who took it, what camera took it, the dates and times, sometimes geolocation. And so we don't have any of that. And I think that was why, at least initially, there was some concern about the January 11th date is because there was something that indicated that date

in a camera video at some portion, which we haven't gotten yet. So we don't know what that med data is related to any of these videos or any of the pictures that are taken. If you know or think you know anything about Mrs. Guthrie's disappearance, please dial toll-free 800-225, 5328 or to remain anonymous 520882-782-7463. Thank you to our guests joining us tonight, but especially to you for being with us and keeping the search for Nancy Guthrie alive. Nancy Grace signing off for tonight. I'll see you tomorrow night. And until then, good night, friend.