Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: TMZ RECIEVES NEW EMAIL

Episode Date: February 14, 2026

TMZ has received a third email from the man who claims he knows the identity of Nancy Guthrie's kidnapper.  He suggests the doubled reward was a move designed "to discredit me."   He's asking for a bitcoin worth $50,000, and then he will give up the information Then he expects another $50,000 in bitcoin.  Joining Nancy Grace Today:  Josh Kolsrud  - Criminal Defense Attorney and Former Assistant U.S. Attorney, Founder of Kolsrud Law Offices, website: kolsrudlawoffices.com, Facebook and YouTube @KolsrudLawOffices  Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker,”  featured in hit show: "Paris in Love" on Peacock, www.drbethanymarshall.com , Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, Twitter: @DrBethanyLive   Brian Fitzgibbons - Director of Operations for USPA Nationwide Security, Leads a team of investigators specializing in locating missing persons, website: www.uspasecurity.com, Instagram: @uspa_nationwide_security, former Marine and Iraq war veteran Scott Eicher  -  Digital Forensics Expert, Founding Member of the FBI’s Cellular Analysis Survey Team (C.A.S.T); Historical Cellular Analysis Expert; Former FBI agent of 22 years; Former Police Officer and Homicide Detective with Norfolk Virgina Police Dept. having served 12 years; Has worked several missing persons cases. Currently with Precision  Joseph Scott Morgan -  Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan", Instagram @JoScottForensic Dave Mack -  Investigative Reporter, 'Crime Stories' See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Breaking news, Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie missing day 13. This as, believe it or not, another missive regarding Nancy Guthrie's kidnapping has just been received. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Since this case began, Sheriff Chris Nannos has been in the spotlight, and now it's being reported

that Savannah Guthrie told the sheriff investigating the abduction of her mother, Nancy Guthrie, she doesn't need him. Pima County Sheriff Chris Nanos, he has been under a lot of scrutiny since day one of this investigation. He spoke to Fox News and said that he has talked and texted with Savannah, and that she said she has her own people and didn't need him. He goes on to say that the family members have been involved in the investigation. They've been very cooperative. He actually says, whatever we've asked for, they've done. But then he adds this.

It was getting crazy out there with allegations about the family. You can't accuse people of horrific crime like that and not have any facts behind it. Now, he says that, but in the same interview, he also says, no one is really ever ruled out as of today. Joining us an all-star panel, but straight out to Dave Matt, crime stories investigative reporter, a new missive regarding Nancy Guthrie. What happened, Dave, Mac? TMZ received a third email from a guy who claims he knows the identity of Nancy Guthrie's kidnapper,

but he's changing the rules. If you remember, in his last note, he said, He's not being taken seriously, and they will not hear from him again. He wanted one Bitcoin that was worth about $68,000 at the time. Now, this new email says he's contacting TMZ because he doesn't trust law enforcement. He's using TMZ as an intermediary telling authorities, you don't trust me, I don't trust you. So now he's suggesting the reward being doubled to $100,000 is because of him. He actually says it's to discredit me.

That's why they raised the award to $100,000. Now he says that he wants $100,000 the FBI reward, but here's how he wants it. He's asking for a fraction of Bitcoin worth about $50,000, and in return for that, he will then give up the information. And then he expects another $50,000 in Bitcoin. He promises he will not withdraw the first $50K until the kidnapper is arrested. that is the third email from this guy. By the way, one important change to all of this in his email, he says that when he gets the initial payment,

then he will give up the name of the main individual, referring to the main individual suggesting that there are accomplices, as we've mentioned before in his previous emails. There you go, Nancy, the third email. Also, Dave Mack, isn't it true that he refers to the current state of Savannah's mother. He, we don't have specific details.

Harvey Levin is not releasing that. But he is referring to Nancy, but I can't assume that he is saying that she is alive and well or that she is alive. Otherwise, this will be an entirely different

report right now. Yeah, because it's not being very specific about it, but again, he does refer it to the quote, current state of Nancy Guthrie, but he's not alluding to whether it's good, bad, it's just that she is alive, but nothing else. This as DNA has been sent to a private lab in Florida. There's a few going on about that. Why not to Quantico? I have strong believe that if we recover DNA, it will be touch DNA. We have a DNA expert joining us. Also, there is a walkback, a switch in the glove, a narrative from Sheriff and Nanos.

And we learned about a prior investigation by the FBI into Nanos. Also at this hour, a not so official composite has been released. But I want to go straight back to what's happening right now. And that is the missive. Now, the third one from the same rat who wants to rat out the rat that took Nancy Guthrie. Okay, there's a lot wrong with this equation. Straight out to Scott Eicher, former Fed with the FBI, founding member of Cast Cellular Analysis Survey Team. Now at PCAexperts.com, precision cellular analysis.

Thank you for being with us. you spent years and years with the FBI. This missive is all wrong. Have you ever seen people that go, you're not taking me seriously? Well, for a reason. Or, I'm not crazy, translation. I'm totally crazy.

Same thing here. I agree. One of these, when we get these national events like this, and even if it's just a state event or something like that, we always get numerous, numerous tips for people that want to get involved or want to try to make money off of this. And we got to run them all down. That's the problem. You're taking investigative resources away from what they should be doing to run down this lead and that lead and this lead. So if it's not real, please don't, you know, bring up something like this.

Well, it's done now, and I'm going to go straight to Josh Coles Rood joining us. He is a veteran criminal defense attorney joining us out of this jurisdiction, Arizona, former federal prosecutor and founder of the Coles Rood Law Offices. Josh, thank you for being with us tonight. This is a crime. Remember the last guy, Colello? He's already been charged under 18 U.S.C. 875. He's got two felony charges for faking and extortion in exchange for knowledge about Nancy Guthrie.

I guess this guy wants to get in line behind him. Well, you know, we don't know yet what this person knows or doesn't know. But, you know, what's interesting is that, you know, it appears that at least law enforcement is taking him seriously. They haven't said publicly that it's a hoax. But there are some red flags. You know, you have to wonder why, if he has this information, why he's not calling silent witness, because silent witness now has a reward or $100,000.

So if you have the information, there you go. You know, supposedly, you know, there's information that he may not want to publicly give his information because he doesn't want to be known as a snitch. But, you know, if you want the money, you're going to have to take that chance. There's nothing that he's said so far, though, that makes me think that he is truthful, that he has veracity, that he hasn't said anything specific that we don't already know yet. Okay, we don't know that or not know that, but you're right. It is being entertained, and the last hoaxter was not called a hoaxter until after he had already been arrested.

but you just reminded me of something. You take or I take my witnesses as I find them. I have put on the stand nuns, priests, virgins, dope lords, drug addicts, alcoholics that were literally drunk at the time they took the stand. There was nothing I could do about that. You take your witness as you find them. This guy may be a nut in the vernacular. but what if he does know something? Let's just go out on that limb of credibility for just one moment

to discount him because of his behavior, the wording of the missives, the way he's kind of haggling over the price, the way he's taking credit for the doubling of the reward from 50 to 100,000. Yes, that's bizarre. That's outlandish. But what if he does know something? And something I always argue to juries, Josh Colesrude. Who do you think the defendant is hanging around with? The folks at the Vatican? No, they're not hanging out with the church deacons or the rabbi. They're hanging out with people just like them, birds of a feather flocked together. So it would make sense that the actual perps hanging out with not the law and orderly type, but a guy like this.

Yeah, exactly. And you make some excellent points about, you know, why he might be telling the truth here. And regardless, law enforcement has to either cross him out as a legitimate lead or not. They need to investigate him for a crime that is, you know, giving false information or a false ransom note, so to speak. And if it turns out that it's not a false ransom note and they can't charge him with the same crimes they chose. they charge the other Yahoo. Maybe he's legitimate. And until we find out one way or another, whether he is legitimate or not legitimate, they need to take serious. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Straight out to Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us,

and boy, do we need a shrink. She is a renowned psychoanalyst, author of Deal Breaker. You can see her now on Peacock. And you can find her at Dr. Bethanymarshal.com. Dr. Bethany, there's got to be a psychological name for this. He suggests the reward has been doubled from 50,000 to 100,000 because of him, that it was just a move designed to, quote, discredit me. What?

This reminds me of the media campaign for the Cosmopolitan in Vegas. Their tagline is just the right amount of wrong, which is what this guy is, just the right amount of wrong. But you know, Nancy, what's fascinating to me is I feel like I kind of have a sense of the profile of this person, which could be helpful. Whoever this person is, I'm pretty sure it's male the way he's bargaining. There's a shallow, immature quality. You know, give me 50K, but I won't spend it until, you know, blah, blah, blah. He is very excited by this crime. I'm guessing he's very preoccupied, thinking about it 24-7, talking to a about it. Yes, can they tangentially know something about this crime? His thought process and reasoning

is very shallow. So what I would wonder, is there anybody who has a family member, male, a teenager, 20-something-year-old who is constantly talking about this crime, who's talking everybody's ear off about it? I would wonder if the FBI put out a request for leads or tips to, for somebody who keeps breaking that they're going to make money off of this crime. Well, hold on just a moment. Dr. Bethany Marshall, straight back out to Brian Fitzgibbon's, who is joining us, Director of Operations, USA, Nationwide Security. He leads a team of investigators finding missing people all around the world at uspacurity.com,

also former Marine and Iraqi War vet. Okay, Brian, you heard what Dr. Bethany said. Let's track this guy down. Why? Do we have time to track down a hoaxer? I mean, I don't know how difficult it's going to be to get the IP address, probably not that hard. That's Eikers-Belliewick. But this guy is directly contacting TMZ. So he can be tracked down, but do we want to dilute law enforcement to chase him down? Isn't that kind of chasing down a rabbit hole? It's absolutely worth the effort here, Nancy, even if for the simple purpose of eliminating

this is authentic. You saw with Derek Colella, the Los Angeles person who was the hoaxter, the FBI made an extensive post today. They're going to throw the book at him and make an example out of him. So if this is indeed a hoaxter, we need to eliminate him, and we need to make a make another example out of him to, you know, really dissuade people from doing this in the future as this unfolds. What do you mean they're going to throw the book at him and explain, describe what the FBI stated?

I think the DOJ in their statement today about Kalella, they're not going to buy his information that he just, you know, wanted to see if they'd answer his text or what. whatever. They're going to make sure whatever charges they can bring against Derek Colella for hoaxing that ransom demand to the Guthrie family. They will bring those charges heavily against him. And it's important here with a case like this that has this amount of media attention that we really do everything in our power to dissuade that misinformation coming in. If I could get the control room to run back through the photos and show me the photo, of Nancy Guthrie with her little black dog and she's looking directly at the camera.

As all of us, the so-called experts, yeah, that one, are talking about 18 U.S.C. 875 and the penalties and the minutia of tracking an email or a text to TMZ, look at her. that's what's at stake right now her her life is she dead is she alive is she hurting is she calling out for her children is she crying is she in a room where the windows are blacked out and she's in the dark have they given her anything to eat has she had any medications do they let her go to the bathroom can she stand up and walk around? Just the thought, is she crying right now? Is she calling out for her children?

This is about a real person with a real family that is suffering real pain right now. And I'm glad Fitzgibbon's reported that ZOJ is going to seek the max on this guy because that is a tick, a parasite. right, sucking the blood out of the family and law enforcement trying to bring Nancy Guthrie home. Every day there's a new up and a new down.

People's hopes were dashed when Palazuelos was released. Carlos Palazuelos had nothing to do with this incident. I believe he was singled out because his phone popped up in her, Nancy's neighborhood, so many times that various times of the day and night, he's a delivery person. I think they isolated him because of that. They haven't said that, but I am deducing that. Ups, downs, then he was released, and we all woke up, just defeated, because it meant we had gotten nowhere starting basically all over. But her life is at stake.

And isn't it true, Scott Eicher, formerly with the FBI, that ransoms for money, kidnappings of this ilk are very, very rare? They are very, very rare. Only two or three that I've worked in my whole career, and most of those were drug-related. Someone owed money for drugs and they kidnapped a family member or kidnappings coming from Mexico or often money for ransom. Hey, we'll give you your brother back if you send us all this money. So in this type situation where we've got an elderly female not involved in drugs, not involved in anything other than just living out her life, this is very unusual to have a

ransom situation. I've had plenty of kidnaps, but not ransoms for money. Joining me now, Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University, has an incredible criminal procedure and crime program, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. He's a star of a hit podcast series, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. And not only that, he is a death investigator that has investigated over 10,000 death saints of all sorts. At this hour, we're having a DNA feud. Joe Scott, I just want you to hear Dave Mack explain the alleged feud between the FBI and Sheriff Nannos.

What happened, Dave? We have the... Sheriff Nanos has a lab in Florida that has... been used by the county in previous incidents. And apparently from what we're told, Sheriff Nanos sent DNA from the crime scene to this lab in Florida rather than allowing the FBI to take it to Quantico to test it there. And the dollar figure is in the $200,000 range that has been paid in county funds to this lab in Florida to do this DNA testing. And we're not even sure if we're talking about DNA from inside the house that he talked

about, that Manos talked about earlier, or on the front porch. Okay, DNA, DNA, whether it's from inside the house at first, and Fitzgibbons has an insight on this. At first, we were told there was a glove and DNA in the house. Now we're told there is no glove in the house. We do know there were either one or two gloves found on the side of the road. There you see agents checking the side of the road and it paid off. About 1.5 miles from Nancy Guthrie's home, two gloves were found, gloves that closely resemble the ones worn by the perp.

This video from our friends at Fox News, that said to Joseph Scott Morgan, Joe Scott, touch DNA. I want to hear your thoughts because, you know, touch DNA can, um, If they're in gloves, if it's on the inside of gloves, that's one matter. If it's on the outside of the gloves, that DNA is very likely compromised in that it's mixed with other DNA. Things the purpose touched, maybe Nancy Guthrie herself, this lab is going to have to be able to differentiate, isolate, differentiate the mixed DNA. And then they're going to have to run it through CODIS. If he doesn't have a record, maybe his brother, maybe his uncle, dad, cousin has a record. we're going to have to do genetic genealogy and you know where that goes.

I mean, it can turn out really well like Joseph DeAngelo, the Golden State Killer. But it better be a really good lab. And I have my suspicions about which lab it is, but you hit me with the DNA side of this. Yeah. So for me, Nancy, it's all about consistency in how you're handling this scene and how you're processing potential evidence because just listen they're saying they sent DNA no they didn't they sent samples that might contain DNA it's not like this is something that you can visualize and to your point about the fragility of this uh you know they're taking swabs from various locations

points of contact inside of this house and we'll just talk about the surfaces of the house and if he is doing this if he's touching these areas with a bare hand for instance if he gets comfortable in there. You know, they've talked about this 45-minute or 40-minute time period. He may have been in there. Did he get comfortable enough? And then toss the gloves outside as he's leaving. Well, you have to take into account all of the other contact points in there. Another piece to this, Nancy, is I call it the investigative funnel. So you've got a big funnel to the top and you're putting data in there and you're kind of narrowing it down. Anybody else that's been in that house has to be eliminated. That can be caretakers, family members, workers, anybody else. And so when you're not

on the same sheet of music with all of the investigative agencies, it gets very layered and compromised. I would feel much more comfortable as a forensics guy if these samples had gone directly to Quantico where I know they know the drill and how to process it. And they've got great partners on the outside that they can source for things like investigative genetic genealogy. And so I don't understand what the problem is here. As you well know, because you were, you know, you worked for the feds for a while, Nancy. The force that they can bring to bear in a situation like this, it's like you're cutting your head off to cure the headache.

I don't understand it. It makes no sense to me. The inside of that glove, though, if we talk about that, For anybody at home, think about this. If you've ever even had on a pair of winter gloves, what are your gloves? What are your hands do? Well, they sweat, right? And you might not even be aware that they're sweating, that your hands are sweating.

When you peel those gloves off, you're not talking about touch DNA then. You're talking about a rich source of DNA. It's not like a partial DNA strand, you know, that has to be amplified and all this other stuff. We're talking about sweat that could be inside of this glove. That's very, very important here in how it's handled, how it's packaged on the front end, how it's delivered, and then how the exam can be done. So you're talking about two different types of potential DNA here. Also, we were told that there was a glove inside the home.

We now hear that being walked back. But I firmly believe that there was DNA evidence inside. All it takes, Joe Scott, is one hair. Now, another thing, oh, guys, the video we were showing you earlier, is from K-O-L-D, our friends at K-O-L-D. There's also the aspect of fibers. That's why we need that truck. We need that gray truck, if it's gray, white, beige.

Because Nancy Guthrie was bleeding profusely, I believe, from the nose. There's no way that they're going to be able to get all that blood out of the truck. It's almost impossible. When you go in there with luminal or blue star, which is next-gen, gen Luminal, You'd have to have it, I guess, clean by somebody from the crime lab, right, to get it really clean. But think about the potential fibers from his home. This is how Wayne, one of the ways, Wayne Williams case, a serial killer in Atlanta that killed young boys and teens, how he was caught.

And my coworker, Joe Drew Lai, brilliant, led to the serial. the charge on getting that evidence in for the first time in the world. And it was admissible. It was carpet fiber from Wayne Williams' home, his parents' home where he lived at that age, and fiber from his vehicle. The fiber in the home, I want to say was green, but it was shag. That was only made a certain time period. And that color and the, and the,

the micro fibers, yes, very limited. It could be traced back to their home and it was on the bodies. Also fibers from his car on the bodies. So there's a plethora of DNA fiber evidence that could have been obtained. I pray to God in heaven the capture of that evidence. was not bungled. Yeah, I do too. And that's one of my biggest worries with this. If we go back, one thing I've got to state here that's very troubling to me, you remember the blood deposition that was on the entrance area there, you know, that we saw.

And you alluded to it a moment ago. And by the way, I concur with what you're saying. You've got those rather large drops there. That's free falling gravity drop deposition. But if you look, if you look at the little bitty drop that are in between, in between those big drops, that's expert, Nancy. So you've got this blowing out. So, yeah, there could be blood in a vehicle and also this Guthrie's hair could be in there. And any clothing she's wearing is unique to her.

Her fibers will be in there. So this is a big piece of it. And this is so delicate, Nancy. I cannot begin to emphasize how delicate an operation is. When I saw a card stuck in the door where the Nescam was from adult protective services, when they had taken down that tape initially, how in the hell does that happen? How does somebody get access in there? And they put a card up there.

You can see it where the Nescam was mounted. I'm thinking this is how we're starting out in this case. Yeah, we investigated that. And I know where you're going. It's not so much who's on the card. It's the fact that somebody could get to that crime scene and put a card on the door. So Dave, Mac, without revealing the woman's name, didn't we determine that she worked with elder care? It was probably like the equivalent of a visiting nurse or a home health worker?

It was. It was just a business card from something along those lines, yeah, and just dropped off as a marker, I guess, you know. So Dave Mack, if you could capsulize for us, Nanos, Sheriff Nanos's explanation of why he sent the DNA. Instead of to Quantico, he's working with the fans. They're right there trying to help. They're the ones that got the images off the front porch. Instead of using Quantico, for Pete's sake, he used a private lab,

which we think to be DNA Labs International in Florida. Why? In a nutshell. Here's a direct quote from him. Actually, the FBI just wanted to send the one or two they found, talking about gloves, found by the crime scene closest to it, mile, mile and a half. I said, no, why do that? Let's just send them all to where all the DNA exists. All the profiles and the markers exist in Florida. And he says they agree.

So he's saying that the FBI was in agreement with him, Nanos, on sending the information to Florida. Okay, straight back out to Brian Fitzgibbon's joining us. Director of Operations, USPA, nationwide security. First, we were told, a glove in the house. Now we're told no glove in the house. Why'd the walk back? Yeah, this has been a bit of a dumpster fire from a PR perspective. You know, we're told initially gloves been found in the house.

It's being sent to Florida. Then Sheriff Nanos came out and said, we've found a number of gloves in the course of this investigation. And we don't know if any of them are worth anything or connected to the case. And now this afternoon, he had an extensive conversation with a reporter from Fox News where he said that no gloves were found in the house. And he doesn't know where this came. We've had some seriously conflicting information about this glove.

Crime stories with Nancy Grace. You know what? Whether there's a feud or no feud, what we need is teamwork. And I'm sure the Guthrie family doesn't want to hear. This one's not getting along with that one. Nanny Nanny Boo-boo. I said this. You said that. Nobody cares. Just send it to the best lab possible because this DNA is very highly integrated with other DNA, highly likely integrated with other DNA. if we get anything off those gloves to start with. And I'll tell you another thing. When Nanos says things like, it may not even be connected. Why would you say that as if it doesn't matter where I send it? It may not even be relevant. That the argument is mute. That does not instill confidence

Fitzgibbonds. No, not at all. And I mean, hey, any article found on a crime scene may not be connected to the crime itself, right? That's why we go through this process, this forensic process to investigate and determine that. Or on the other hand, and Gibbons, it may, it may be connected. Also, in the last hours, posted on social is a very disturbing video. Let's see the video. Please blur the face. This is a guy very close to on the top.

that's what I want to see. This guy was posted by USA News HQ on X. And unposted, it looks very similar to the porch guy outside Nancy Guthrie's home. This guy is in no way a P-O-I person of interest or a suspect. The point is, what time we see out and about in the neighborhood, Dave Mack, on somebody's porch, fiddling with the door cam? It was about 5 o'clock in the morning, Nancy, and it was on that particular video. He was shot on January 23rd.

Just about a week before Nancy Guthrie is kidnapped. Fiddling with the door cam. Now, this guy may very well even live there. My point is, please, everyone within that two-mile circumference, that two-mile radius, please check your videos, check your door cams, everything you've got. That was from USA News HQ on X. And that is in fact what authorities are asking at this hour. What do you make of that, Josh Coltrude, that they are asking everyone within a two-mile radius

to check video specifically for a gray truck? Well, you know, I like that they posted this video of this new person, even though he may not have anything to do with it because I think it encourages other people to do the same thing. And, you know, the FBI and the sheriff's office, you know, they believe, at least, that maybe the white van had been casing the area, much similar to the Coburger case where Coburger was casing, you know, the multi-story house that he later broke into. And so, you know, hopefully, you know, people are listening to the show and they start doing what the sheriff's office is asking for. Dr. Bethany Marshall, let's just proceed with the belief that Nancy Guthrie is still alive. Okay. Who in their right mind could keep an 84-year-old woman imprisoned in a bedroom or an apartment or, who knows, a farmhouse, a cellar, a basement? Those are the things that Savannah and her siblings, is their nightmares where is mom. But what type of mentality?

What person, what man could do that? Somebody who's obsessed with her because they see her as a mark. They see her as somebody that they are going to profit off of, and that delights them. That makes her very exciting and captivating to them. And Nancy, a couple of things that you just brought out on this show. The fact that the blood is from the nose, nose droplets potentially, and that it stops on the doorstep, makes me so sad,

because that means somebody stemmed the bleeding by putting their hand over her face. That's the kind of person who's holding Ms. Guthrie. And the other thing, when I see some guy fiddling with a camera at 5 a.m. in a neighborhood, probably where there are many seniors, it makes me wonder, is there some slim possibility that this was not targeted, that somebody was going from doorstep to doorstep, trying to find somebody that they could abduct, kidnap, something like this. It just opens up more questions to me rather than resolving them. You know, you said something, Bethany, and it made me think just in that moment, and I'm sure you can verbalize this better than me, but

whoever's got Mrs. Guthrie, she's not even real to them. They're thinking about potentially Savannah and getting her money. And Mrs. Guthrie is just like, a pawn, a thing to them for them to get that money. However, I'll tell you something, Nancy. She may be a pawn. She may be a thing. But they've been thinking about her for a long, long time. Reminds me of a patient who came in and could not stop talking about his grandma,

obsessed about his grandma. And I finally realized he was obsessed with her because he was trying to drain her bank account. So there was a lot of talking about it before I finally realized that he was actually using the therapy to commit a crime. I stopped seeing him. So there's somebody in some household out there who has a father, a brother, a son, somebody in their lives who has been talking about Nancy Guthrie for a long, long time. That could be a very important behavioral clue in terms of finding the perpetrator. What else should people be looking for? Because I believe a case like this could be correct by a girlfriend, a wife, a sister, a mother, a father. a neighbor that realizes something is off? Oh, well, promises of wealth.

I'm going to take you on a big trip. I'm going to buy you a new car. Our ship is coming in. Preoccupation with the news, wanting to talk about all the little tidbits that have come out. I don't think that what we should or family members should be watching for as somebody who's actually avoiding talking about this, but somebody who is quite captivated by it because, you know, when you have a mark, when you're a perpetrator and you're going to benefit financially from something, you want to talk about it all the time. So I think it's going to be in the conversations people are hearing in their households. Think about if you're sitting around the dinner table with your family, all of a sudden there's one family member that says, oh, let's talk about the Guthrie case. What do you think about older people living alone? Oh, do you think that they're, do you think

the ransom's going to be paid? Do you think Nancy's still alive? An excited conference conversation, not sad, excited conversation. That's what family members, girlfriends, wives, children, whatever, that's what they need to be watching out for. Yeah, that's really interesting, Dr. Bethany, because every time I leave the studio, I'm asked, do you think Nancy Guthr's still alive? And similar questions. And every time the person, is seems genuinely upset. They're not excited. Like, what's the latest? It's not like that at all. They're aghast at what has happened. They all have a mother or a grandmother, many of them that live with them or that are living alone. And this strikes fear in their heart. It's really interesting

the way you delineated between being excited and almost giddy about it as opposed to being upset and concerned about it, Bethany? That is absolutely right. And that goes to the third ransom note, right? Is that in this third ransom note, this person who writes it or sense it does not seem to show any concern about Nancy Guthrie. It's kind of all about himself. So also another thing to listen for in conversations around the table or on a date or whatever

is a person talking about how someone could benefit. from abducting an older person, or they're talking about Nancy herself and how sad this is, and is she still alive, and how is the family doing? If there is empathy in the conversation, that's not a perpetrator. If there is lack of empathy, then that is a possible suspect. If you know or think you know anything regarding Nancy Guthrie's disappearance, Please dial toll-free 800-225-5-3-24. 800-2-25-5-3-24. Or 520-882-7463 if you wish to remain anonymous.

520882-7463. Good night, friend.