Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - SCHOOLGIRL, 14, disappears enroute to school bus stop

Episode Date: June 10, 2021

Indiana police say they believe a 14-year-old girl who vanished a month ago is in danger and is likely no longer in the area. Aaliyah Ramirez, a dance student in Syracuse, was last seen leaving her home just after 8 a.m. on April 27, on her way to school. She never made it to the bus stop. A neighbor’s doorbell camera captured the last known images of the teenager. Police have mentioned three areas where they believe Aaliyah could be — Marion, Indiana, about 70 miles south of Syracuse; Georgia; and Palm Beach County, Florida — but they’ve released very little other information. About a week after her disappearance, Palm Beach County deputies visited a relative’s home there they did not find the teen. Joining Nancy Grace Today: Katie Reynolds - Friend Wendy Patrick - California prosecutor, Author: “Red Flags” www.wendypatrickphd.com 'Today with Dr. Wendy' on KCBQ in San Diego Dr. Teresa Gil, Ph.D. - Professor of Psychology and Psychotherapist, 25 years Working with Child Abuse and Trauma Victims, Teresa Gil PHD.com, Author: "Women Who Were Sexually Abused as Children: Mothering, Resilience, and Protecting the Next Generation"  Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Featured on "The Piketon Massacre: Return to Pike County" on iHeartRadio Levi Page - Crime Online Investigative Reporter, Host, "Crime and Scandal" True Crime Podcast, YouTube.com/LeviPageTV  Anybody with information about Ramirez is asked to call Syracuse police at 574-267-5667. Tips can also be shared through NCMEC at 1-800-843-5678. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A beautiful little 14-year-old girl who loved her ballet classes is missing. Where is Aaliyah? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm just nauseous all the time right now because I'm so worried about her. Like I can't even fathom that this is actually happening. As the search continues for missing 14-year-old Aaliyah Ramirez of Syracuse,

her ballet instructor Haley Toy is hoping for her safe return home. We just, like we all just want to see her get home safely. If she ran away, if someone has her, like just let her get home safely. If she ran away, if someone has her, like just let her get home safely. The last images of Aaliyah taken from this Ring video doorbell eight days ago around 8 a.m. Tuesday morning. Aaliyah can be seen leaving her Syracuse home for school wearing a black jacket, gray and white sweatpants and a purple Nike backpack. So Tuesday morning she was getting ready to go to school, and we know that she did not get on the bus. Did not get on the bus. A staggering number of child disappearances, kidnaps, and attempted kidnaps revolve around the route to the school bus stop, in route to the school itself, leaving pickup and drop-off at the school bus stop.

A staggering number, above 40% of all kidnaps and attempted kidnaps happen related in some way to getting back and forth to school with me an all-star panel to help determine where is alia tip line 574-267-5667 repeat tip line for this beautiful young girl just 14 574-267-5667 all indications are she's on her way to school her normal wake-up time she's dressed for school she's got her backpack she's on the way nothing unusual no family argument that we know of nothing and she seemingly disappears into thin air it's frighteningly similar to the disappearance of J.C. Duggar, who disappeared on her way to school. She was found many years later having given birth to multiple children by her kidnapper, being forced to live in a shed for years and years. With me, an all-star panel, Katie Reynolds, who is who is alia's dear friend and mentor they dance at the same studio at instagram kt dot reynolds twitter kkt reynolds wendy patch a california prosecutor author of

red flags and host of today with dr wendy kcbq san diego dr theresa gill phd professor psychology Wendy, KCBQ San Diego, Dr. Teresa Gill, PhD, professor of psychology, psychotherapist. She is the author of Women Who Were Sex Abused as Children. Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star of a new series, The Piketon Massacre, Return to Pike County on iHeartRadio. Renowned founder and president of the Corson Security Group at corsonsecuritygroup.com, author of The Safety Trap, Security Expert Secrets for Staying Safe in a Dangerous World, Spencer Corson. But first, to Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter and host of Crime and Scandal True Crime podcast. Levi, take a listen to our friends at

WNDU. Police are looking for a missing 14-year-old out of Syracuse. Aaliyah Ramirez was last seen Tuesday morning. She's 5'9", was wearing a black zip-up jacket, gray and white sweatpants with a purple Nike backpack. She's believed to be in danger, so this is very important here. Anyone with information is asked to call police. The devastated family believes she has been kidnapped. The parents saying they knew immediately that something was horribly wrong. To you, Levi Page, when and where, let's start with where was she abducted? Where do we think she was abducted? So, Nancy, she is in Syracuse, Indiana.

That is where she was possibly abducted. Syracuse is a small town in Indiana population of around 2,800 people a lot of lakes in that town very beautiful but a very small town Syracuse Indiana many people that first see the story think we're talking about Syracuse New York which is a whole nother ballpark much more populated what did you say the population is here, Levi? About 2,800 people. And the reason I asked that, obviously, to you, Joe Scott Morgan, is because the more rural or less populated the area is, the lower the crime rate, which really, you look at this sort of crime through a different lens than you would in a big city. Yeah, most certainly, Nancy. And the odds that you're going to meet up with some type of malevolent force there, some individual that's going to do harm

to an individual is lower, seemingly. So that kind of narrows your field when you begin to think about who may have crossed Aaliyah's path, who's in her world, who's in her universe, who could give us an idea as to where she may have wound up or where she is right now? Of course, to you, Spencer Corson, founder, president, Corson Security Group, and author of The Safety Trap, no one will ever forget Dylan and Shasta Groney, a brother and a sister who lived in very, very rural Coeur d'Alene, Idaho. They were spotted at their above-ground pool by a freak that was driving by on the interstate. And in the distance from his vantage point,

he must have had a rise in the interstate. He could look over, and he saw Shasta in her swimsuit at the pool, got off the interstate, staked out the family, killed the whole family except Dylan and Shasta. He ultimately killed little Dylan after many, many molestations and torture. Shasta was rescued because the woman in a 7-Eleven recognized her. That was, as we say, in the middle of nowhere. And same thing here, just because you're in a rural area does not mean crime cannot enter your life, Spencer Corson. No, I think you're completely correct. And one of the reasons I think that predators tend to

target these small town, you know, more intimate communities is because they are more likely to be less vigilant and more polite. So someone who comes up to a student asking for directions or baiting them with some kind of language, those individuals are much more likely to engage with those strangers rather than to have a heightened state of vigilance. What more do we know about the area? Take a listen to our friend Ibrahim Samra, 16 News, WNDU. The walk from Aaliyah's home, just a few to our friend, Ibrahim Samra, 16 years WNDU. The walk from Aaliyah's home, just a few blocks away from her bus stop.

The walk from her house to the school bus stop, it's not long, it's maybe like a five minute walk. A walk that Toye believes was the last one Aaliyah took before she went missing. She's young, she's so young. And the idea that she's going through all of this right now, she's and that she might not be safe. We don't know what's happening. Which is why if Aaliyah is watching, Toy wants her to know this. I hang in there. You're you're such a tough, tough kid.

And people care about you and they love you. and we're going to get you home safely. Now at this hour, police say Aaliyah could be anywhere including Marion, Indiana, Georgia, or even Palm Beach County, Florida. Find it interesting they're throwing out those particular cities. They said Palm Beach, Georgia, somewhere in Florida. Why are we getting those locales? Just as a reference, a framework, we know that there were only four crimes, four violent crimes in Syracuse, Indiana last year. Just four violent crimes. So where does this little girl, 14-year-old Aaliyah Ramirez, fit in? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Joining me, Katie Reynolds. This is Aaliyah's friend. Katie,

we are being told that there was nothing unusual about that morning. There had been no family argument. She has never run away before. What can you tell us about your friend? Yeah. So Aaliyah, she was a straight A student. She was very involved in dance. She loved it so much. She was just like any other kid. She was very involved in all of her academics, all of her studies. There's nothing unusual about her, or there was nothing that was interesting or it was not anything out of the ordinary. There was no suspicion of her leaving or disappearing. She had never run away before, straight A student. That's not easy.

My children worked all year long to get straight A's for the whole year. That's not easy. And at her age, she's 14. That means she's in the eighth grade, a rising ninth grader. She's looking at advanced algebra, a lot of detailed science, math, English to make all A's. That's very impressive. This is not a girl that has ever left home before. Now here's a problem. And I write about this in my new book, Don't Be a Victim, about all the kidnaps and crimes that happened surrounding a school bus route. A young girl, Aliana DeFze was kidnapped from her bus stop and the parents had no idea anything was wrong until she did not get off the bus around 4.30 that afternoon. We are learning here that the father, Anthony, says he didn't realize Aaliyah was missing until much later in the day when he got a call from the school regarding her absence. And we all know, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author, red flags,

that those first three hours in a kidnap, especially a child kidnap, are critical. Explain, Wendy. That's exactly right, Nancy. And I would say that's particularly true in a rural area, small town, 2,800 people. Somebody must have seen something. The reason it's important, Nancy, is the distance that a kidnapped child can be transported quickly during those first few hours, that precious time block that parents would much rather know sooner rather than later so everybody can leap into action and law enforcement can start their work. That is what's most critical. And

that's what's heartbreaking here when from all indications, it seems like this precious young girl went missing before she even got to the bus stop. And then, of course, we wonder, was it someone she knew given the small community where it's hard to go missing without a trace? Nobody, as you pointed out earlier, nobody disappears into thin air. But you're right. That's why the father much would have rathered, all of us would have much rathered this had been reported sooner. You know, I don't know if it is increasing, but it seems as if it is because it was just about 10 days ago, we covered the case of a little girl, Alyssa Bunnell, about 12 years old. And it's caught on video where she's sitting alone out in the grass.

She's playing with something or reading a book and she's at, that's the bus stop. And it's in a circular grass pattern where the bus comes up to get her. And I observed a white, it looked like a minivan, go by several times. It was a roundabout. And the next thing I knew, out of the right side of the video comes a grown male, white male, grabs her. She fights him off. He still tries to drag her back to his vehicle. And she brought him off. He still tries to drag her back to his vehicle. And she brought him down. And after she brought him down in the struggle, he took off and left. Take a listen to our friend reporting this regarding Alyssa Bonnell. This is WEAR-TV Olivia Iverson. For Simmons and Bonnell, the thought is chilling.

Tuesday, Alyssa's walk to the bus stop was nearly her last. When you look at the video and you think of what could have happened, it's not a nice thought. If I would have lost her yesterday, the chances of me getting her back would have been very slim. Nearly every day, Bonnell walks her around the corner to the bus stop on Perdido Street and Corifield Road. Tuesday, she didn't, needing instead to tend to her baby. As a mom making ends meet, she tells me she feels a sense of responsibility for what could have been. It's creating guilt for not going off there i mean but i can't let that tear me up because i was going out there none of this is this it's not my fault it's not her fault

this is that man's fault dr theresa gill joining me professor psychology and psychotherapist dr gill i'm trying to get into the. I'm wondering if this is a copycat of what just happened 10 days ago with Alyssa Bonnell. Did somebody see that on TV and decide to do it themselves? That video was widely circulated. Dr. Teresa Gill,

it's like the hyena at the edge of the watering hole in Savannah waiting for the gazelle or the creature to come up to the water. It's taking a lamb to the slaughter, grabbing a child en route to the bus station. Well, it's interesting when they talk about abductions, and a number of people have mentioned it already, that they look at the most vulnerable. And in a smaller town, the thought is that she knew the person that may have abducted her. And these things are pre-planned. But it usually involves a vehicle. It usually involves coming to or from school. She was abducted around eight o'clock. And that's the seven to nine in the morning when they're traveling to school on the bus is usually when abductions occur. Also girls between the ages of 10 to 14, they really are the most vulnerable

and one of the reasons they're emotionally vulnerable is because they don't have the maturity to make good decisions, to set boundaries, to think about consequences, to be discerning about who they talk to and who they trust. But between the ages of 10 and 14 are the ones that are abducted, and the older girls usually are abducted because there's a sexual component to it. And so that just, me as a mother, but also as a therapist, just makes the red flags even more disconcerting and concerns. You know, Spencer, of course, it would seem to me that there would be some sort of a video camera or surveillance of some sort at the bus stop, which I call out for in my book, Don't Be a Victim. But sadly, there's not. I know. And nor was there at the bus stop in that Florida incident. Thank God that,

that auto parts store, that, that, that parts store had a camera there. Right. Yeah. I think what we, what we see with, with so many security plans, whether it be a school or an organization is that there's a wide divide between policy and practice. You know, most school bus stops are supposed to have some kind of covering for inclement weather. They're supposed to have some kind of a security feature. They're supposed to either be monitored or in person or remotely. But, you know, I think it's just so important that parents encourage children to participate in their own protection and to, you know, not be fearful, but to have that healthy sense of skepticism and that moderate dose of vigilance, which can really help everyone to succeed in staying safe. Take a listen to our friend Carly Miller at WNDU.

14-year-old Aaliyah Ramirez has been missing from Syracuse since last Tuesday. She is 5'9 and 138 pounds with black hair and brown eyes. She was last seen around 8 a.m. wearing a black zip-up jacket, gray and white sweatpants, and a purple Nike backpack. Those who know Aaliyah from a dance studio she's been a part of for years describe her as a kind and selfless girl, and they say they were shocked when they learned of her disappearance. I really, really need her home.

I need her home for me. I need her home for her family for herself, her safety. She's two weeks older than my daughter, so there's super close in age, so I just can't imagine like you know her being missing and as the days. Go on, I just increasingly become more concerned and more worried

for her well being. Reynolds sites and others say they're doing everything they can from posting on social media to handing out hundreds of flyers. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. To Katie Reynolds, Aaliyah's friend, tell me about her personality. I know she's never run away from home. That's not really a factor in the police consideration right now. Tell me

about her. Yeah, so she's a very, very caring person. When I say like when she was at the studio, she was always taking care of her little sister she was in the studio just helping her all the time um she was very very sweet and she also had like a little bit of sass and spunk to her I mean she was a perfect addition to our dance family um she was always a team player that's how I could describe her she was always in it for others and it was never a team player. That's how I could describe her. She was always in it for others, and it was never a self. She was never about herself. It was always about others. Katie, did she keep her cell phone with her at all times?

Yes, she did, but I believe her dad took it away from her. So is it your belief that at the time she went missing, she did not have her cell phone? Actually, we were told that she had two phones. One phone was taken from her dad, and then the other one was bought by her Aunt Alyssa so that she could keep in contact with her Aunt Alyssa. So she did have a cell phone. Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Do we know whether she had the cell phone with her when she went missing? Nancy, we don't know if she had her cell phone with her when she went missing.

Although at 14 years old, I would suspect that she most likely did. We do know, Nancy, that she also had a Google Chromebook that she had for school with her as well. I wonder if that is traceable. I'm going to circle back to Spencer and Joe Scott on that. But let's look at the timeline. We know that her last moments that we know where she is were spotted on a neighbor's ring doorbell of her leaving her own home just after eight o'clock in the morning. We also know she never made it to the bus stop. The bus stop was just a couple of blocks away. That's only about a 10 minute window. Now let's think about that, Joe Scott Morgan, a 10 minute window. She didn't make it to the bus stop. She disappeared in 10 minutes. Yeah. And it's a very narrow framework that we're talking about. You think about she's on foot, and I've looked at the video footage of her, and she's very calm, very put together. She does have the backpack

on her shoulders. She's wearing it in an appropriate manner. She's carrying an item, looks like a bag in her right hand, almost like something, a shopping bag. I'm not really sure what's in it. However, one thing caught my eye, Nancy, when I was looking at this. There's a freeze frame image of her in profile that's on the web right now, and she's wearing a mask. Now, she's not around anybody else. She's obviously outdoors, so that gives me an indication that she's going to be with a group of people. In her mind, maybe at least, she's thinking, hey, I'm going to the bus stop. They're going to make me put a mask on on the bus. So I'm going to go ahead and have that on. And I think that that's an important piece of this, because this goes to her mindset relative

to being with groups of people waiting for the bus and doing what, you know, we've already heard that she's kind of a compliant child. She's well-liked. She probably does what authority figures tell her to do. So she's put together in that sense. Now, where she just vanishes is quite the conundrum. And I looked at the highway system around here, Nancy. She's not near a major interstate. This town doesn't rest. There's old US Highway 6 that runs east and west. Now, you can go east and be in Cleveland. You can go west and you can be in Gary, Indiana or Chicago. So I'm just wondering if somebody is working this route through here, as you and Spencer pointed out earlier. Let me ask you this, Katie Reynolds.

You're her friend and mentor there at the dance studio. Does she have a boyfriend? He is 15 years old and he lives in Florida. He's 15, she's 14. Do you know where he lives in Florida? Would it by chance be Palm Beach? Yes, it is. Okay, that's good, Spencer Corson, because if there's any suggestion she's gone to be with the boyfriend, which right now there's not, they know how to find him. They know where he is. Her friends at the dance studio know who he is. So certainly police know who he is.

It's my understanding they've already looked in Palm Beach, Florida and Marion, Indiana, both spots. And so far they've come up with nothing, Spencer. So, Spencer Corson, what do they do now? Well, I think they need to expand the search. And I'm wondering if how, I mean, I don't think the father knew about that second cell phone. So the police may not have initiated a cell phone tracking. You know, they may not have initiated cell phone tracking if they didn't know about that second cell phone, which could have been very crucial to to her immediate thing or her immediate retrieval. But also, if she was going to go to the boyfriend's house, like things would be missing from her home. And looking at the ring camera video of her, it does look like the backpack has stuff in it, but it

doesn't look like it's packed for a trip. So I think what you really need to do is also look at where was the boyfriend during this time? Was he on his way up to her? Was she on his, on her way down to him? Were they planning to meet somewhere in the middle? Having all of those factors, you really just need to start, you know know looking at the totality of circumstance for everything and really hoping that this all works out for the best what i'm saying to you is they've already checked out the boyfriend and she's not there that's one of the first things they did levi page what can you tell me about it um n, I know that they searched a home. They're not saying who the homeowner was who lived in this home in Bonton Beach, which is near Palm Beach.

And there was no sign of her in that home. So that is what we know about the search in Florida. Also, Nancy, I'm sorry, ma'am. Jump in. Go ahead. Yeah, I was just going to say that just because she wasn't at the boyfriend's house doesn't mean the boyfriend didn't do something to her. And, you know, Nancy, if she were planning to meet up with the boyfriend, obviously should be caught easily if she was dragging a suitcase. But what about looking to

see if money was missing, her makeup bag was missing, little things that would fit within that backpack that we see on the ring camera that would indicate this was some sort of a plan to to go be with the boyfriend that maybe went wrong. So those will be some things that investigators will look at as well. I'm looking also at the tote bag she's carrying and it's open. You can look in and see the contents of the tote bag. It's just like one of those. It looks like a grocery bag, a fabric bag. And her backpack does not look stuffed, not stuffed at all. Maybe she's got just a Chromebook

in there. Guys, we're talking about a missing 14-year-old girl. The tip line for Aaliyah is 574-267-5667. Listen to our friend Carly Miller, 16 News Now. If this was your kid, you would be doing the same thing. This is not my kid, but I'm doing as much as I can because I can't even imagine what her parents are feeling like right now. And they need people to share Aaliyah's picture and information in hopes of getting her home safe. Whatever h is going on. I just reall and I want him to be retu just takes one person pos

spotting something funny got one person. So just k I just want to make sure out there. If you have analiyah, please call Syracuse Police or 911. Back to Katie Reynolds. This is Aaliyah's friend at the dance studio. Were you saying something earlier about her grandmother? Yes, her grandma actually lives in Florida as well.

And she has a residency in Indiana as well. She has two houses. So she's, is the grandma the one at Marion, Indiana? Yes, she is. Ah, okay. And do you know where the grandma is in Florida? Yeah, she's actually next door neighbors to the boyfriend Bryce, right next door. Okay. Wonderful. So I know police have extended the search to Marion, Indiana and Palm Beach, Florida. They don't think she's a runaway, but they check just to make sure no sign of missing 14-year-old Aaliyah Ramirez.

I want to circle back to Dr. Teresa Gill, professor of psychology and psychotherapist. The mindset of someone that steals a child from the bus stop. Again, it's like easy pickings. They're little children. They're gathered at the bus stop. It's like going to the grocery store and buying a tomato. You just pick the one you want. And she was quite beautiful. And she stood out. And she was 14 and naive. and she was five foot nine and a dancer. And from what I've read, she was very comfortable around people she knew, but she was rather shy and reserved around people that she didn't know. So if somebody just pulled up a vehicle and asked her a question or she would probably have responded. And again, the most vulnerable, that's who perpetrators pick. And, you know, the fear is that when there's a kidnapping,

it's usually rare, but, you know, many times it's for human trafficking and then, you know, murder is a result of that at times. You know, Joe Scott Morgan, Professor of Forensics, Shaxsville State University, you know how many times I've told my twins about don't talk to anybody that comes up to you in a car, don't try to help an adult. An adult does not need a child's help. But then I have watched them.

When a car has pulled up to them, they have paused. You can tell a child over and over and over, but they're children. That's why under the law, they can't enter a contract to buy a car or get married or buy liquor or cigarettes because they don't have the mental capacity. They don't quite get it that there are wolves in sheep's clothing. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And predators understand that, Nancy.

This is the reality. Most kids, most kids are compliant when it comes to older individuals. You know, they're around teachers, their parents, that sort of thing. You know, do as I tell you to do, that sort of thing. Do as I tell you to do, that sort of thing. So immediately, if someone that is at least at a basic level is perceived by them to be an authority figure, they'll stop just for a second. And then you throw in a little added bonus. Let's say the old adage, I have candy, or can you help me find my puppy? Of course, Aaliyah is a lot older than that. How would you entice, how would an adult entice a 14-year-old to come and be compliant?

You know, she's maturing now. She's not completely mature. But how do you get her into a vehicle from this location in an area that she knows very well and that people know her there? How do you entice her to get in there and then leave with you? That's why I think that we really have to, I'm circling back, I think that we really need to look at her circle of intimates. Those individuals that are immediately around her, who has knowledge of her, who's going to know this early in the night?

This didn't occur late at night. She's walking down a dark alley or something, Nancy. This early in the morning. Who has specifically targeted her or who has facilitated her disappearance? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we were talking about the disappearance of a beautiful young ballet student, just 14 years old, Aaliyah Ramirez, who disappears en route to the school bus stop. Take a listen to Allison Zithheimer, ABC 57. Aaliyah Ramirez was last seen on her way to school on April 27th.

Now her family is speaking with Dateline NBC about the investigation. This is video from the final time Aaliyah left her home to catch her bus to school. Her father and her mother both talked about the days leading up to her disappearance, with her mom telling Dateline that she and her daughter had a good day together two days before she disappeared. Police are still searching for her and ask to call police if you have any information. What do we know? We were listening to reporter Allison Zithimer. It is day six now. Take a listen. It's going on day six now of no new word and no new information on 14-year-old Aaliyah Ramirez's whereabouts.

And as the days continue to go on, loved ones concerns continue to rise. The Syracuse Police Department continuing to investigate the disappearance of 14 year old Aaliyah Ramirez, who was last seen last Tuesday morning at around 8 a.m. leaving to catch her bus, but never made it to school and never returned home. The very next day on Wednesday a statewide silver alert was declared and still continues on almost a week later. She's just not one to like have any issues and whatnot like this before. As time goes on it's it's heartbreaking. Syracuse police officials say she is believed to be in danger. But what else do we know? Take a listen to Corinne Rose, Fort Wayne's NBC.

Ever since April 27th, the Syracuse police chief says investigators have been chasing down every lead. It's definitely an urgency in locating her. You know, we're giving it everything we have. We are working with Indiana State Police, utilizing all the tools at our disposal. We started investigating from day one and we haven't stopped. We don't plan on stopping until we locate her.

Aaliyah is a talented dancer. Chief Lane says Aaliyah is believed to have left Indiana. He says if you think you've seen her, call your local police department right away. He also asks that you share information about her on your social media pages. If you have relatives out of state, share it via Facebook, Instagram, whatever platform they are willing to use. But yeah, the more shares we get, the better. The more we get her face out there and hopefully it'll reach the right person. Chief Lane says the Ramirez family is cooperating in the investigation

and that everyone wants Aaliyah to be found safe. I'm curious, to you Spencer Corson, why are they so convinced this little girl is no longer, as they say, local? Because of the tightness of the community and the surrounding area, they would have known if this would have, if this had been a runaway, she would have been to a bus stop or a taxi. Someone would have seen something. And with this time of time and distance, they would have been able to narrow that focus. My question, and forgive me for my ignorance on this, but at what point would the FBI be brought

in for this when there's already a cross-line concern? It's a child. Why is this still a local police issue? I'm not sure that it is still a local police issue. Out to Joe Scott Morgan, what do you know between you and Levi Page? In the event that she has crossed state lines, Spencer Corson is correct, it would become an FBI issue. Yeah, it would, particularly if they're expecting or anticipating that this is some type of event where she's been taken against her will, you know, specifically a kidnapping. Once that is initiated, you kind of flip a switch with the feds at that moment in time where they're going to be looking for her in all of these locations and all the force that can be brought to bear with the feds will be brought online. My suspicion is at this point in time, more than likely the feds are aware you've got Fort Wayne field office. It's not too far from there. My thought is that they

probably have gotten involved, but they just haven't surfaced yet so that the public can see them. Rex, my concern was not just kidnapping or runaway, but human trafficking. Why do you say that? She fits the target demographic. Young, impressionable, tall, attractive, 10 to 14. That's what human traffickers tend to target at this point. Now, the father is insisting that she is being held against her will. But he's also saying he believes she may be in Florida.

But why would he think she's in Florida, but yet being held against her will? Levi Page, what, if anything, do we know? Nancy, we know that at one point she was living with her grandmother in Florida, and that's where she came in contact with this 15-year-old boy that they were a couple, boyfriend and girlfriend. And we do know that in the custody case, the judge actually ruled that she's not allowed to have any contact with her grandmother or that 15-year-old boy. Interesting.

No contact with grandma or the 15-year-old boy. Interesting. No contact with grandma or the 15-year-old boy. What do you know about that, Katie Reynolds? I do know a little bit about that. It sounded like they had gotten in a fight, Aaliyah and her grandma, but I don't know what that's about. Yeah, I believe that she, leading up to her disappearance, she was in contact with the boyfriend, though. So let me understand.

The grandma lives next to the boyfriend. They're in Florida. She is in Syracuse, Indiana. How in the world would she have gotten there unless someone came and got her or she took a bus? But we don't, it can't be a bus, Joe Scott, because she was gone within 10 minutes of leaving home. Yeah. And this is the key, isn't it? You know, she's 14 years old, Nancy. She has limited resources and limited options. It's not like she's a college student. She can't call an Uber, you know, more than likely, I guess you could, but it's just one of these things where you have to have some kind of outside force facilitating this. If this is something

where she has initiated a separation from her father, you know, come and pick me up. She's away from her mother too. Where have you prearranged? Have you prearranged to a meeting spot? And I find it curious as well. We had mentioned earlier that daddy had taken her phone away from her and then she goes out, allegedly, and purchases her own phone. You know, you can go and get a burner phone somewhere. So she took the initiative to go ahead and do that. Maybe he was trying to stem this idea of her, you know, meeting up with somebody, having communications, this sort of thing. And I don't know. I think that it's very difficult for a 14-year-old just to up and vanish without having some help.

Or, as Spencer talked about, you go to this really ominous side where you have an individual that has snatched her for nefarious purposes. Take a listen to our friend reporter Korean Rose Fort Waynes NBC our cut 13 ever since April 27th the Syracuse police chief says investigators have been chasing down every lead. It's definitely an urgency in locating her. You know, we'll given it everything we have.

We are working with Indiana State Police, utilizing all the tools at our disposal. So now what do we do? What's the next step to you, Joe Scott Morgan? The next step, Nancy, is to get this information out. You know, we're in a different world, you know, relative to social media. She's going to pop up and she's on social media anyway. We think that there's a footprint of her out there. She is known.

You see these beautiful pictures of her that look like she's been on the gram, as it were. And people know her or have seen her. This is going to be a draw. So people have to get the word out to her. She's not just going to go into a deep, dark hole. If this has been initiated by somebody in her circle that has spirited her away, say, to Florida. She's going to surface down there. However, if we begin to look in the other direction, that's where the feds are really going to have to do a deep dive and bring upon all of their resources where they can hopefully get her out of the hands of whoever it is that has taken her.

What about us, Mr. Corson? Yeah, I completely agree. The entire ordeal just needs to raise in size and scope and really dial down into what actually happened. And so this can be resolved as quickly as possible. I would say to try and track the cell phone she's carrying and try to track that Chromebook or any other devices. That's the best way to find a young girl. The father insisting along with police that she is in danger. Tip line 574-267-5667. Help us bring Aaliyah home. Nancy Grace Crown Story signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.