Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Scott Peterson's back: Will A&E docuseries set him free?

Episode Date: August 16, 2017

Scott Peterson's pushing the idea that investigators ignored witness tips that would have proven he did not murder wife Laci and unborn son Conner. A new docuseries that purports to reveal new evidence begins this week on A&E. Nancy Grace, psychologist Dr. Bethany Marshall and journalist Sean Walsh watched the first episode and talk about it. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, Channel 132. We find the defendant, Scott Lee Peterson, guilty of the crime of murder of Lacey Denise Peterson. The case of State v. Scott Peterson, to me, feels like it just happened yesterday. She just vanished, and it turned into a media storm within days. Please, please, please let her go. Bring her back. Guess what, Scotty? San Quentin's your new home.

There was no biological evidence, no forensic evidence whatsoever that pointed to the guilt of Scott Peterson. There's at least 11 witnesses that saw Lacey that day. This is all while Scott's at the office on his computer. So he's innocent. I wasn't the last one to saw Lacey that day. This is all while Scott's at the office on his computer. So, he's innocent. I wasn't the last one to see Lacey that day. There were so many witnesses. We saw her walking in the neighborhood.

After I left, the cops just never followed up on me earlier across the street. If you take one look at her photo, one look into those brown eyes, you'll never forget them. I never, ever have forgotten Lacey Peterson. I remember when she first went missing, when this was a missing person's case. I knew in my gut it was not a missing person's case. I knew she was dead. I don't know how I knew, but I knew. And now, after all this time,

her husband, Scott Peterson, sitting on the California death row, says he's innocent. And gives us reasons why. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Well. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Well, I nearly passed out when I heard Scott Peterson had reared his ugly head yet again and was dredging up his wife's murder. Because I remember when Sharon Rocha, Lacey's mom, took the stand, I was late to the courthouse almost.

Sitting in the front of the courthouse, working, working, working. It was hot in Redwood City. I flew in the courthouse, ran up the stairs, ran down the hall. I was making a lot of noise with my cowboy boots on. Got to the courtroom. Just before they closed the door, I got one seat. It was on the very back pew, and I had to sit on my backpack, which was on my back, so I could see Sharon Roche take the stand. And she described how Lacey was buried. Lacey was bones. She's a skeleton.

And she was buried with baby Connor, her unborn child, in her arms. That was the only way she got to hold her baby was in their casket. She's buried that way right now. That is what I remember. And now Scott Peterson is dragging everybody back through the mud with me from DailyMail.com. Sean Walsh, also with me, renowned psychologist, Dr. Bethany Marshall, joining us from L.A. First to you, Sean, I was stunned last night when I heard and watched the A&E special.

And, oh, yes, there's more to come. It's a nine-part series. And it all really started with him explaining why he didn't do it. What's your takeaway? I think he's trying to create reasonable doubt all these years later. We know what happened. We know who was found guilty. We know who's sitting on death row. But now, 2017, here's Scott Peterson saying, I didn't do it. Well, here's the deal. He is in the middle of trying another appeal, and it only takes one judge to get it in his or her head that he's telling the truth, and then they'll poison the rest of the appellate court,

or at least enough to get a reversal and a remand. Now, listen, this case has already gone up on some appeals, but it ain't over yet. Alan Duke, roll it. An inmate at the California State Prison, San Quentin. This call and your telephone number will be monitored and recorded. Do you want to talk about the verdict first? It was crazy. It was just like this amazing, horrible physical reaction that I had. I couldn't feel my feet on the floor. I couldn't feel the chair I was sitting in.

My vision was even a little blurry. And I just had this weird sensation that I was falling forward. I was falling forward and forward and down and there was going to be no end to this falling forward and down like there was no floor to land on. I was staggered by it.

I had no idea what was going on. Dr. Bethany Marshall, I mean I can't help but notice that practically every sentence starts with I, me. I remember how it felt. I felt so bad. The floor almost fell out from under me. I felt like I was falling forward and I didn't know what was going to happen to me. What about Lacey and Connor? Why is this all about him feeling bad when he's convicted? Of course he was

convicted because he did it. So why am I hearing in 2017 about how badly he felt when he was finally convicted? Well, he's starring in his own drama, isn't he? It's all self-referential. Like we see with the sociopaths, they do not see beyond themselves. They're egocentric. They're involved in their own lives. He's had all this time to lick his wounds, to think about himself. He's not thinking about Lacey. You know, one fact that stood out about this case, I was thinking about it. Two days after Lacey went missing, he added two pornography channels to his cable package. So to me, that talks about this incredible sort of narcissism. Dr. Bethany, Dr. Bethany, Dr. Bethany, I get, you know, I'm going to charge you with

first degree robbery because you just stole that right out of my mouth, right out of my mouth. first degree robbery because you just stole that right out of my mouth right out of my mouth not only that dr bethany and sean waltz from dailymail.com i'm going to just throw this in your court you are an man not only she was she had just been gone as dr bethany marshall just said a couple of days when he gets porn channels tries to to sell her car, Lacey's car, and the house. He contacts a realtor to sell the house. You know what, Sean Walsh, let me tell you this. If I go out of town on business and my husband orders the porn channel while I'm gone, uh-huh, I better be dead or there's going to be a homicide.

Now, you know he knew she was dead. Porn channel. My rear end. Porn channel. You know, it makes no sense. I mean, and this is one of the key... It makes sense to me because he knew she was dead. I completely agree with the fact that he knew she was dead

and he knew what he was doing. But it makes no sense for someone who tried to... Let me ask you another question, Sean Walsh from DailyMill.com. What is it with men? Why do they have to have the porn channel? I don't have to have the porn channel. It's all I can do to wake up in the morning, get the twins fed and ready for school and work. Then cook dinner and then get them

to bed hopefully they'll be tired what when do i have time to watch the porn channel but what is it with me and why do they have to lay around on the sofa and eat chips and watch the porn channel what are you laughing at richard you just swivel around in that chair right now well i'm gonna okay walsh it's on you i'm gonna the fifth, and I'm going to say that what surprised me in this is that here's a man who was trying to cover his tracks when he was dealing with the police, and I think he thought he was the smartest guy in the room. He clearly wasn't. The two porn channels, the realtor, the talking to the mistress on the phone, I mean, this was not a smart guy this was

someone who had something to hide thought he was smarter than everybody else but it all quickly unraveled let's take a listen you know for him talking about the floor falling out from under him he was in a free fall he couldn't believe he was convicted okay you know you should have thought about that when he was making those homemade cement blocks to weight her body down. But that's another can of worms. Take a listen. Now, this is more disturbing to me on a crime and justice, a legal level, where he raises the specter of other people seeing Lacey alive after she's reported missing,

after she allegedly goes missing. Listen to this. Scott Peterson from Death Row. I wasn't the last one to see Lacey that day. There were so many witnesses. We saw her walk in the neighborhood after I left. The cops just never followed up on me, burglary across the street. The police failed to find my family. So let's talk

about Scott Peterson claiming other people saw Lacey alive after she allegedly went missing. Okay, let's just grab the bull by the horns. Listen, people, I know Mark Garagos. I know him very well. That was Scott Peterson's defense attorney at trial. He is as slippery as an eel. Let me tell you that. Now, his job under our justice system is to do everything he can, right or wrong, morally, to get his client off. You want to tell me, SeanWalshDailyMail.com,

that these people are out there that allegedly see Lacey alive, and he knows about them because they're in police reports, they're in tip lines where they've called in, there's documentation of them calling in, and he did not bring them to trial. May I venture a guess as to why? Because their story wouldn't hold up and they would crumble on cross-examination. What about that, Sean? Nancy, I agree with you.

I think this is one of these cases that we see all too often now where we reimagine history. Memories fade, emotions fade, and people aren't as angry about the case as they were back then because they believe it was solved. They believe the right man is behind bars. But here we have it all these years later. He's trying to get off death row. He's trying to be released from prison. And he wants people to believe this so they're dredging up this story to try and get him out that's what this is plain and simple well i agree with you there's another facet to it dr bethany marshall i've been thinking about you know scott peterson a lot of people thought not me of course you you guys know that not me thought he was attractive. Handsome even. You know, the dark, smoldering good looks with the perfect smile. Great body from being an athlete, a golfer.

Well, let's see. Looks great in a suit. Walks like a jock. I saw that. Salesman. Salesperson. Oh, yeah, by the way, saw a fertilizer. You know what that is, right?

Poop, to put it mildly. College degree, beautiful home, beautiful wife, loving family. His whole family loved him. Jackie Peterson, his mom, worshipped him. Here's the deal. It's easy, Bethany Marshall. It's easy to say whatever the H you want to say when you're sitting on a pay phone on a collect call behind bars, kicked back in a chair to your sister-in-law, no cross-examination,

nobody calling you on anything you have to say. If all this were true, why the hey didn't he take the stand and say it in front of a jury? Why is that, Bethany? Well, don't you think his defense attorney was concerned about how slick he would seem how grandiose how arrogant you know nancy i look at this through the lens of sociopathy and psych oh hell no hell no excuse me i promised i gave up cursing when the twins were born because he would get sliced up like a thanksgiving turkey on cross-examination what about that beth, you know, you and I talk a lot about the fact that sociopaths have very little anxiety about getting caught. And because of that, they're never tongue

tied. They lie very easily. They do not have cause and effect thinking. They lack insight into how they come across to other people. So they will flip from topic to topic when they're confronted, when they're cross-examined, but there's a kind of shallowness to their lies. They do not think the lies through, and it doesn't really bother them that they're lying. This is the essential feature of pathological lying, is low levels of insight into how they're coming across to other people. So I can see why Mark Garagos would not have wanted him to be on the stand because I don't think Scott Peterson had true insight into how he came across to the people around him. You know, it brings up the other question is how do people, and I'll just, I know women do it too. I'm not picking on guys,

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And now, let's talk about Miss Frye. Amber Frye. Take a listen. Scott told me he was not married. We did have a romantic relationship. Now, you know, Sean Walsh, DailyMail.com, last night I noticed that the A&E special did not really touch on Amber Fry. But the reality is, and boy, I remember those tapes being played. To me, Amber Frye was the pivotal

moment in not only the trial but the investigation. Because up until then, Sean, I don't know if you remember this, but up until then, Lacey's family was standing by Scott Peterson saying he had nothing to do with it. That's right.

They thought he was her loving husband. And once that photo came in. Remember that photo? Yeah. She was at her little Christmas party on one side of town, and she was so tired and sick, pregnant. She's nine months pregnant. She had her little feet up, and she had on that little Christmas outfit,

a maternity Christmas outfit, alone. And then the other picture emerged of Santa Baby on the other side of town wearing a Santa hat with his arm around Amber Fry. Same night, she had on a strapless red satin Christmas outfit. I still remember it. And he had his hand right on her rear end in the picture. Uh-huh. When that came out, everything broke right open, Sean. Well, that's the best thing about this, you know, that regardless of what you think of the relationship between Scott and Amber, in the end, Amber was pivotal to this case being solved

because he had the audacity to call her during Lacey's candlelight vigil. Like, extraordinary. I mean, this is someone who just knows no bounds. And she then was like, no, this isn't happening. And she started recording the phone calls with him. And in all, she had 29 hours of recorded conversations with him that she was giving directly to investigators trying to solve this crime. You know, why is it that she is always painted so badly,

Dr. Bethany Marshall? She's always painted as the bad guy, that she somehow broke up their marriage. Here's the deal, Bethany. He had had a string of affairs before Amber Fry. Absolutely. And if it hadn't been for her, the jury may have believed he was this loving husband. I mean, she's the one that

went to police and said, I've been dating this guy and I think he's married to that missing woman. You know, amazingly enough, she saw right through the con. And so she has my admiration for that. To me, she is as pure as the driven snow. The minute she saw something was wrong, she started those recordings. Do you know that during Lacey's... Wait, did you just say pure as the driven snow? Yeah, I do think so because...

Okay, don't get crazy, Bethany. Don't go over the top. No, but... But I will say that she was the pivotal moment in this trial and the investigation. Hey, what's to say, Sean Walsh, that he wouldn't come after her? Because she was a major witness, and he knew it. That's the thing, right?

He lied all the way through. And we've got to remember, this was a time, like, this may not have been a whole lot of time ago. I mean, this was less than 15 years ago. But the internet wasn't as prevalent then. People weren't online all the time. They didn't have cell phones that they were constantly looking at and reading news updates and tweeting or on Facebook. The only press coverage they were getting was on television. They weren't using the net like we use the net today. And so it wasn't until December 30th of 2002 that she saw a newspaper article about Lacey's disappearance.

And she immediately called the tip line. And that's when she started working with the authorities. So you've got to give her credit for that because she could have remained silent. And, you know, when he was arrested in the parking lot of the Torrey Pines Golf Club, didn't he have a shovel? Didn't he have a dagger? I mean, my thought was always that he was going to go after her. I always thought that he was going to go after her. And remember, he had the map to her place from where he was. I guess like we would call it a Google map now. He had that with him,

plus those tools, how to get to her place from where he was. And don't forget, he had someone else's ID on him. He had four cell phones, and he dyed his hair blonde and grown a beard. I mean, he was... Well, hold on. You're leaving something out, Sean Walsh. Conveniently. Not only had he dyed his hair blonde, $15,000 in cash, fake IDs, a lot

of sleeping pills, survival gear, and a stash of Viagra. Viagra, Sean. Sean Walsh, DailyMail.com. It's a theme. It's a theme. Yeah, that's what you gotta have when you go camping, right? You gotta have your

Viagra stash. Why, Sean Walsh? Why? You never know how you're gonna fight a bear, Nancy. Thank you. I guess you saw that one coming a mile away. Okay, hold on. Speaking of Amber Fry, please, just for your listening entertainment, Alan Duke, could you please roll Scott Peterson. This is

around the time of his wife's vigil. Only he knew she was at the bottom of the San francisco bay claiming he's in paris celebrating the new year with his new friends i think one was named pierre and one was named jacques francois take a listen hello baby yes amber can you hear me yeah Yeah. You can? Yeah, hey. Oh my goodness. That's a quiet place. Pretty good, huh? That's really good. Oh my gosh. It's like been all this crazy static and stuff. I'm like, ugh, so frustrated. I know, I'm trying to call her. Amber? Yes? Amber? Oh. Stop, stop, stop. Amber? I'm right here. Amber, are you there? Yes. Amber? I can hear you. Hey. Yes. Okay, there you are. I'm talking. Okay, I'm like, stay still or something. I know, I'm making it work. How was your New Year's? What's that? How was your New Year's?

It's good. I'm just, I went to the bar now, so I came out of the alley. Quiet alley. Isn't that nice? Yeah, it is. I could hear you. Very good. The street ops, the fireworks, the Apple Tower.

The massive people all playing their rock songs. Uh-huh. It's pretty funny. Well that's good. I'm glad you guys decided to go out. Oh definitely. I can never remember your friend's name. I know Jeff but you always say Fron-Swan-something. And then we have uh, Tosh Kwa, a friend of ours.

Thank you. Uh huh. Oh he's there too? Yeah. Tosh Kwa, yeah. Good. Hi. Did you make a New Year's resolution?

A New Year's resolution? Yeah. What was that? Should be. Should be? What should my New Year's resolution be? Oh, I don't know. That was my question. Remember you said that. Oh, I didn't think of that.

Uh huh. Uh huh. Uh huh. Uh huh. I'll I didn't think of that. Uh-huh. I'll tell if it's all good. Yeah, you'll have to tell if it's all good. So. So where are you headed? Um, well, I don't, did you get my message? No. You didn't get, I haven't.

Yeah, I left you a message because I was like, well, I hope you at least get that. But, um, I was going to, or the San Francisco thing didn't work out. So I'm probably most likely going to go later to Sean's. Are you there? Hello? The whole Amber Fry issue is very important because it brings to light who he really was. However, that's not what matters at a murder trial. You can be Mother Teresa, and if you committed a murder, it doesn't matter.

Or you can be Scott Peterson, and if you didn't commit the murder, then that doesn't matter. What's concerning is that now, all these years later, he is conducting these jailhouse interviews with his sister, uninterrupted, unchecked, unproven, giving a different theory. Why now, Sean Walsh? Well, I think it's very easy to tell a family member who truly believes you're innocent what you want them to hear and what you want people to hear. But let's be clear here. He wants to get off death row. He wants to get out of prison.

He doesn't want to be killed for the crime that he committed. So it looks like he will do anything to get out. And part of that is dredging this case back up, which is totally disrespectful to Lacey's family, and to attempt to get out of jail. That's all he wants here. Scott Peterson, once again, is focusing on what is best for Scott Peterson and is not taking into account his actions and the consequences for those actions,

which is he is on death row. Fry said that Scott told her he was not married and they did have a romantic sex relationship. Peterson discussed that revelation on a 2004 audio tape that had never been released until now. Why did you talk to Hamber after Lacey had gone missing? The other reason throughout it all was she starts doing media interviews

and no one searched Lacey Connors. I'd seen what had happened to the search for Shonda Levy with Gary Condon. It was revealed that she had sex with her. There was no more search for her. Every hour I could file the search going. It was all problems with Lacey Connors. So, Dr. Bethany Marshall with me, along with Sean Walsh from dailymail.com. Dr. Bethany, when he is asked, and this is on a recorded phone conversation in 2004, why did you keep talking to Amber Frye? Because, see, now, I think it's him with his dad.

He's talking and he's analyzing the Amber Frye situation. And he says the reason he kept talking to her was not because he just wanted to get in her pants. It was because he wanted to save Lacey and Connor. Because he's a hero, right? Because he is going to save his wife. It's a chance to romanticize the story, paint himself as a hero, self-aggrandize. And you know, Nancy, remember, he loved to reminisce and romanticize. One of the things he did after putting Lacey in the bay is that he would sit by the side of the bay and look out over the bay. He would go back to the scene of the crime. So I think we can also see these tapes and these interviews, not just as an opportunity to exonerate himself, but to revisit the glorification of what he did.

I mean, he got rid of his wife. He essentially got out of the responsibilities of fatherhood, of being a husband. And this was a moment of glory for him. And whether or not he has insight into this or not, he revisits it again and again as he relives what went on. This is just part one of what I understand to be a multi-part series with A&E. And they have managed to get these jailhouse interviews that he has granted, has given to his sister. I just wonder what effect it's going to have on an appeals court. Just remember this,

if one judge gets sucked into this, it could be over. Scott Peterson's case could take a U-turn. True love. Oh, how we all want it. Why is that? It's like a drug. I don't want to get Dr. Bethany Marshall started on true love being some kind of an endomorph or something like that. I know where she's going. Hold that thought, Dr. Bethany Marshall.

First, to Sean Walsh, DailyMail.com. I want to talk to you about the Casanova con man. Scams women on dating apps. Collects over $1 million. Why am I working? Why am I working my fingers to the bone? Why am I trying to write books and do this and blah, blah, blah? When I could just go online and con people out of all their money, $1 million, why can't he just get a job, Sean Walsh?

What happened? I mean, this is extraordinary. We've got a man here who from 2013 to 2016 truly proved that love is blind. He told women that he met on Match, Plenty of Fish, and Tinder that he was a licensed stockbroker, and he convinced them to invest thousands of dollars in fraudulent schemes. And because these women had all fallen desperately in love with him, they got out their checkbooks and wrote him checks, and he collected over a million dollars from them. This guy, D'Allen Pierce of Arizona, reportedly scamming multiple women out of over $1 million on dating apps. Reported to be, Bethany, quote, very charming, romantic. He convinced women he was a wealthy businessman who could assist in paying off their debts and like Sean

Walsh just told us tender plenty of fish match he used to love the ladies so what how does it happen how do you get so sucked in what did he just sit on the internet and the phone all day and night every day and night all day and night Nancy I day and night? All day and night, Nancy. I mean, he was quite the con artist. I would have to believe that almost all of these women were vulnerable in some way. One woman had just gotten out of a relationship. They were all desperate for love. I think a lot of, I see these women in my practice, a lot of them feel that they cannot go out in the world and date. I had this happen to a patient of mine who was morbidly obese, single mom, desperately wanted a father figure for her child, went online, got taken in by somebody.

Within minutes, she had fallen for this guy. Within three or four days, she had written out a check for $10,000. I saw her twice a week from one session to the next. She had already lost $10,000 to somebody who was conning her online and already felt in love with him. It's a powerful pull, Nancy. Not only is he a con artist, but you were joking about the brain, you know, the reptilian or the limbic system gets so activated when we fall in love. Helen Fisher, a cultural anthropologist, likened it to being on cocaine. That's what the experience of falling in love is like. And this guy didn't have to do anything, Nancy. All he had to do was just sit behind his computer and click away and he

reeled them in. You know, Dr. Bethany, the last time I saw you, it was in LA. And I, of course, was in a studio away from you. And we stepped out at the end of the program. And I saw you in the hall. And I went, what is happening? You looked more beautiful. Let me just say, you kind of glowed. Your waist was about, let me just go with 21, 23, 24 inches. You look like you've been bodybuilding. Your skin was perfect. Your hair was different.

And you had on new clothes. I'm like, oh, what's going on? Bethany, take your own medicine. You told me you were in love. I was in love. I had just gotten married. And yes, it had a transformative power. So you can see what a strong pull this is for all of us.

But when you look at the neurobiological aspect, when we fall in love, it's as if our brains go offline. Okay. Everything is in the service of being connected to that other person. So when you think about what happened to these women, it's like they lost, they lost their, their capacity to think. But I have to think also that these women, I do not want to blame the victim. This guy was a huge con artist. But these women unconsciously set themselves up by hiding behind their own computers too. Because if you really want to meet somebody, go out and meet them in person. Do not meet them online.

Get to know them. Get to know their people. Get to know their friends. Get to know their families. Get to know them in their social context. Whenever a guy isolates you via a computer, via technology, taking you away on vacation, not letting you meet the people in his life, it really spells the beginning of disaster. We're social creatures and we need to meet in social environments. Listen to this, Sean Walsh. One victim forked over, it actually hurts my mouth to say this, $240,000 including part of her 401k. Another woman took out a $100,000 loan to give to Pierce as an investment. $240,000, guys, that's a quarter of a million dollars. That's a life savings. That's more than a life savings. I mean, most people, most of America, and believe me, I've been there. I have so been there. Or one paycheck from eviction. One paycheck away from eviction.

I remember, Sean, in law school, I would have to drive through the bank teller, the drive-thru, and ask what my balance was. I was so broke. Before, I would write a check. You know, we couldn't get on the internet and look and I would go to, let's see, it was Del Taco would have two, wait, no, three tacos for 99 cents on Tuesday night. I would try to get through from Tuesday to Tuesday so I could go eat for 99 cents. I was literally looking through the bottom of the car in the car seat to try to find money to get the three tacos. Nancy, I hear you.

I would actually write a check for 90. I actually wrote a check, would write a check for the Delta. I hear you. I mean, the dollar store was my best friend when I was in college. Was? Was? Wait, wait, wait wait have you been to dollar tree i mean i don't want to make an ad for anything but dollar tree if you are not shopping at dollar tree sean walsh and bethany marshall you are wasting a lot of money okay i ripped my husband a you in the other night he dared to come home with some toothpaste i said did you go to dollar tree he's like no i'm like what okay so anyway i said that's three dollars and fifty cents david what are you thinking man okay now where were we back

to you sean walsh the 240 000 i know. And I mean, and part of her 401k, which should be saved for your retirement. I mean, look, he was pretending to be this wealthy businessman. He got access to their life savings and he was using the money at casinos, nightclubs and strip clubs. I mean, it is heartbreaking. Wait, I didn't know the strip club part. Wait, he was taking their money and going to strip clubs. Did I just hear that right? Exactly. Exactly. Strip clubs.

And so, once again. How much jail time can this guy get? What's the maximum he could possibly get? I mean, the judge has got to think about his or her daughter, their sister, their mom. I mean, these ladies say they were at a horrible spot in their life, vulnerable, just got a divorce, one of them. And he, quote, wowed them. Pierce had the ability to take advantage of women because he was a smooth talker.

You know, he reminds me a little bit of Scott Peterson, the fertilizer salesman where I come from. We call it something different. But, okay, that's another can of worms. So what was his line, Sean? I'm going to get Bethany to analyze this. What was his line to the ladies? Oh, he would stage phone calls where he was doing deals,

and he looked impressive, and he'd have them into. Wait, wait, what do you mean by that? Oh, slow down. Come on. He'd be, so one of the victims said. Listen, listen, you're like drinking from a fire hydrant. I can't take it in that fast. What do you mean he was staged calls where he was, quote, doing deals?

I got to hear this. One victim said he'd be on the telephone doing deals, and she was impressed by that. And another victim said she'd go to his very well-decked-out home, and his closet was organized. The shoes and the suits were all color coordinated there was no need to question it because he looked like he had it all but nancy what an organized closet i remember okay pause i remember this one guy i went out with i saw in his closet and all the shoes were lined up like little ants and they had those shoe things stuck in them to keep them in the right shape yeah those those big the wooden things that people see had a wooden

fake foot in every shoe and it was color uh what do you say, divided by colors and sleeves. I turned myself around. Of course, I ate because he had prepared this great meal, okay, like the anal chef. And I, of course, ate that homemade salad dressing. I still remember it. I mean, he had a little, what, the clear wrap, saran wrap over the bowls of salad. So naturally, I ate. Then I said, okay, you know, I got to go back to work.

I got my framework right out of there because I knew oil and water don't mix, people. So can you just hear this, Dr. Bethany, what Sean is describing? Buy, sell. In the background? One of the victims says he had shoes of every color. And did you see the picture of him in the background one of the victims says he had shoes of every color and did you see the picture of him in the article he's wearing this orange track suit at first i thought it was a it was an orange jumpsuit like he'd already been incarcerated then i realized it was a solid

orange track suit orange sweat top orange sweat pants he looked like an orange so this guy had a thing for color i'm looking at him right now, Bethany. Look, I blame you, Sean Walsh from DailyMail.com because I'm looking at DailyMail.com right now and it's your picture. Look at his shoes. They're perfect. They do not, they're

white. The socks are white. They do not have a single scuff. Nothing on them. Well, Nancy, he had over a million dollars he got from his victims to be able to buy those perfect shoes. And so... Thank you for reminding me of that. He probably put the bad clothing in their closet and kept the good clothing in his

closet. Yeah, exactly. Or he was probably wearing one of their tracksuits. I'd love to see inside his home. You think you can get pictures of that, Sean? Because I would like to see his lovely, perfectly appointed home. Listen to this. On a serious note, nearly 50 million Americans have tried dating apps, and the popularity continues to grow. And therefore, the chances of you getting scammed continues to grow. The other night, Bethany, I saw John David is addicted to Minecraft.

And he always goes, Mom, I'm building a house for you to live in with me. And I'm making secret doors and safe rooms and trap escapes. I'm like, okay, that's a little freaky. I wonder where he got that from. But, I mean, how can I argue with him about he's building a house for me, but I, there's a way that other people can talk to you on Minecraft. I don't know exactly what, what that is, but I always say, John David, that's not a little boy. That's a 60 year old fat guy in a t-shirt somewhere acting like he's a nine year old. Do do you really want to talk to him he gets all freaked out and throws down the ipad but it happens you are lulled into a sense of

thinking you know this person because you talk to them so many times a day online and i guess you think wow he's online with me how could he be with anybody else well it even happens how do you get sucked into it? Well, it happens on a date. You know, even on a date, you feel that this person is special above all others. They could be your soulmate. We lose all reason. That part of the limbic system gets activated. So even more online, it's going to get activated. I would say for people listening out there, limit your interactions on the internet. Keep it to five minutes, 10 minutes. If somebody's not willing to spend time with you out in the real world, they don't really want a relationship

with you. They just want something from you. They do not want to be with you. Somebody who wants to love you, wants to see you in person, wants to spend time across from the table, wants to make an, you know, wants to have dinner with you, wants to make an investment with you, in you, they're not going to ask for something from you like money. And you know, the stories I hear in my practice, Nancy, it's always, look, I got a traffic ticket, I can't pay it, but I have a million dollars in Europe. I just can't get access to it. That's sort of the storyline always.

I have millions of dollars somewhere else, but it's tied up in a trust. I'm about to inherit it. My company is going through a merger and acquisition. I can't get access to it right now. So can you please give me sort of a bridge loan? It's always a bridge loan. That's what I can bridge loan, a bridge loan. Yeah. Oh, you know what? You know what? And there's a whole nother can of worms about long distance relationships when you don't know what they're doing. But this guy, Sean Walsh says that he's

a successful entrepreneur. The reality is, in 2013, he was released from prison after a 13-year sentence for theft, trafficking, and gang activity. Oh, exactly. Also, he was on federal probation for bank embezzlement. Oh, totally. I mean, ugh. Nancy, the takeaway here is Google. Google, Google, Google.

If you're going to be dating someone online, Google them. Look into them. Do a search on them. Google, Google, Google. If you're going to be dating someone online, Google them. Look into them. Do a search on them. Google, Google, Google. Google. Like, look. Okay. I mean, this was a career criminal, and these poor ladies were taken advantage of. Next time, ladies, if you're listening, men, if you're listening, if you meet someone online

and it sounds too good to be true, guess what? It is. It is. Charlotte Walsh, DailyMail.com. Dr. Bethany Marshall, renowned psychologist, joining me from L.A. Guys, you're awesome. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend.

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