Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - 'Screaming Banshee' Suffolk Law Grad, Stinks of Liquor, Mows Down Victim, Calls Cop 'F***ing Idiot'

Episode Date: April 1, 2025

Just after 1 a.m., aspiring lawyer Lauren Mullins drives home after a night of drinking in Cambridge, Massachusetts. As an MIT police officer and a man on a moped slow for a red light, Mullins fails to brake. She crashes into the moped, sending it flying into the back of the police car.   The moped driver, 73-year-old Daniel O'Neil, is rushed to the hospital with serious injuries. Cambridge police find Mullins extremely intoxicated and belligerent. The Suffolk University law student is charged with operating under the influence, causing serious bodily injury and negligent operation of a vehicle.   Officers are unable to conduct a standardized field sobriety test due to Mullins' belligerent behavior, but they note her slurred speech and extreme unsteadiness. The 32-year-old has a history of alcohol-related arrests, with a record dating back to 2014. She has been arrested seven times in the past three years on charges ranging from disorderly conduct to aggravated assault on a law enforcement officer.   O'Neil initially survives but later succumbs to his injuries. Mullins now faces a motor vehicle homicide charge. Joining Nancy Grace today, Jason Oshins - Defense Attorney   Dr. John Delatorre -  Licensed Psychologist and Mediator (specializing in forensic psychology); Psychological Consultant to Project Absentis: a nonprofit organization that searches for missing persons; Twitter, IG, and TikTok - @drjohndelatorre Dan Murphy - Former NYPD Detective-Sergeant, Joint Terrorism Task Force, Former Chief Security Officer, US Bancorp, Co-Host of "Gold Shields" Podcast,; Author: “Workplace Safety: Establishing an Effective Violence Prevention Program” Kimberly Cockrell  - Victim Services Manager at Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) Website: MADD.ORG FB: Mothers Against Drunk Driving    Insta: @maddnational   Dr. Todd Barr - Board-Certified Anatomic/Clinical/Forensic Pathologist, Franklin County Forensic Science Center, Office of the Coroner in Columbus, Ohio; Featured in "Thin Places: Essays From In Between" by Jordan Kisner Sydney Sumner - CrimeOnline Investigative Reporter    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The so-called Screaming Banshee is a female Suffolk law grad who stinks of liquor, then mows down a victim dead, and then calls the cop an effing idiot. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Daniel O'Neill, a beloved realtor from Massachusetts, is also a self-proclaimed foodie and moped enthusiast. However, his life takes a tragic turn one fateful night on the MIT I don't know that that's really correct. His life takes a tragic turn like he had something to do with it.

This guy is beloved and he belongs to a little moped group out mopeding around the city when he meets his death. Oh, in other words, when he meets the defendant, Lauren Mullins, let me be the one to introduce you to the so-called screaming banshee. You'll see why. How much have you had your drink, ma'am? Like two drinks. It seems like a little more than that. I can smell it on your breath. Okay. You can never smell it on somebody's breath. Hold on. You're a f***ing idiot. What's your name? My name's Ron. What's your name? My name's Lauren.

Lauren. Your name is I have a degree and I will f***ing destroy you. Okay, Lauren. Listen to me. You saw me. You were there. Are you kidding? Why are you running around the streets?

Why are you running around the streets right now? Why are you running around the streets right now are you running around the streets right now? Why are you running around the streets right now? Because I'm annoyed. About what? Because all of you guys wearing strong s*** like a cologne. Can I get that into evidence

as a statement? It was certainly voluntary, which is a requirement under the law if the person doesn't have their Miranda rights. Okay, whoa. Wait a minute. Who is this woman? While Mullins seems to be a brilliant student, accepting several internships with the Massachusetts House of Representatives, the 32-year-old has a history of alcohol-related

arrests, the two most recent of the crash earning her the nickname Screaming Banshee. Mullins has a rap sheet dating all the way back to 2014 with seven arrests in the last three years. The charges ranging from disorderly conduct to aggravated assault on a law enforcement officer. Straight out to Crime Stories investigative reporter Sydney Sumner. Why are you calling her brilliant? Well, Nancy, it can't be verified by her grades, but Lauren Mullins has an extremely high-end education she's grown up going to this prestigious boarding school now she's at boston university and then supple college of law she's graduated from each of these with flying colors she's been involved in all of these

societies for just stop Just stop. Stop. Stop. You just said you don't have her grades, but you said flying colors. Smart. To get in law school, you know how many idiots were in law school with me? I'm like,

what are they talking about? They didn't know what they were talking about. They somehow managed to eek into law school. Okay, you're saying she's brilliant because she got some internships

at the Massachusetts House of Representatives. They were probably her drinking buddies, Sidney. But that said, I think I know somebody that agrees with you, Sidney Sumner. Bro, you know what's crazy? I am smarter than all of you combined. I have a law degree. That's all.

I'm not moving. I'm not moving because I I'm gonna be upset. Bro, I haven't been in charge of the crimes in here. Get your hands off me. Okay, whoa, I've got so much to show you, but I'm gonna have to see that one more time in case you don't know what means. It means I'm smarter than all you combined.

I have a law degree. Whoa. I got to hear that again. Bro, you know what's crazy? I am smarter than all you combined. I have a law degree. I'm not moving. I'm not moving because I'm going to be upset.

Bro, I haven't seen a tournament in my life. Get your hands off me. Yeah, Sidney. I see what you're saying now. Brilliant. Brilliant. You're the one that said that. You're the one.

Brilliant. Brilliant student accepting several internships with the Massachusetts House of Reps. You got anything else for me, Sidney? Did you hear her? Did you hear that? Well, Nancy, it's clearly not evidenced by her behavior. It's nuts that this woman goes from being this day-to-day student. She just passed her bar. She's studying all the time, working herself, putting herself through school to this, to this horrible behavior,

screaming at cops who are just trying to help her. As much as I'd love to keep listening and watching Lauren Mullins, the brilliant law student that Sidney Sumner keeps talking about, who worked her way through school as a bartender, I'm sure that didn't help anything. I noticed that no one has mentioned the victim. What about him? The dead victim? Listen. It's unbelievable, really, that this happened to him.

And he was just a great guy. I mean, a great friend. He, you know, he just didn't deserve that. The Commonwealth has since learned at the beginning of this week that on Sunday, Mr. O'Neill succumbed to his injuries as a result of the crash at the hands of the defendant. At this point, the Commonwealth is investigating this case now no longer just as an operating under the influence of a serious bodily injury, but also now that there's been a homicide, the defendant is facing much more serious charges out of the Superior Court

with much more serious penalties. The first lady you heard speaking about the dead victim mowed down, minding his own business, didn't even know what hit him, was from our friends at WHDH. That victim named Daniel O'Neill. Sidney Sumner, I'm going to go out on a limb, even though you called, Mullen's brilliant, and ask you, what can you tell me about the victim? Wasn't he part of a, he's a senior, I know that, and he had a lot of hobbies.

And one thing he loved was that he was part of this little group, a little moped group. And they would drive their mopeds around the city of Boston and get together or have lunches and dinners. And that's what he was doing that night. Sid, what else can you tell me about Daniel? Nancy, well, what we know about Daniel is that he doesn't have any children of his own, but he has nine siblings who all have their own children. And he's extremely close with his many nieces and nephews. And yes, Daniel lived in Boston for a lot of his life. He moved there after graduating from college in Indiana.

And he was an extremely successful realtor in that area. Outside of work, Daniel loved to travel and he loved to collect art and try food. His family calls him a foodie. And yes, this moped group was even mentioned in his obituary. This is something that he committed a lot of time to and made really great friends and memories from. Joining me is an all-star panel to make sense of what we're learning right now. But I want to go out to longtime colleague and friend, defense attorney.

This is one of his expertise, Jason Ocean, a renowned New York defense attorney, also practices in multiple jurisdictions. You know, Jason, do you know who Daniel reminds me of? The twins math tutor. Now, really, Miss Williams. Yeah. Miss Williams had children. They're all grown up and living in different areas of the country. But they love going to Miss Williams. And I got to the point, Jason, that I described to you at some point.

You've got children and grown now. I got tired of hiding in the closet, Googling the math answers. So I had to get a pro and it's Ms. Williams. And do you know, Jason, that when we like have a good supper, they go, let's take some to Ms. Williams tonight. They love Ms. Williams. She's like an auntie or a grandma to them. They love her. I mean, deeply, deeply, you know, a lot of their grandparents have passed on and they've latched on to Miss Williams. And that's the way Daniel is with all of his nieces and nephews. They absolutely love him. And I'm thinking, I know it's Daniel O'Neill, but I'm thinking about Miss Williams out on her moped with her little moped group getting mowed down by this P.O.C. Technical legal term. It's just what are you going to do with this in court?

Yeah, Nancy, you and I both know that many, many cases, most of them do get get sorted out in some ways. First of all, you know, I hate it when you say, you know, first of all, you know, don't tell me what I know. OK, because I know she should get a life sentence instead of her having her liquor stinking self out on bond right now. That's what I know. Why somebody offered her bond? But that's she isumption of innocence is

bond and the ability to return to court. It's not prejudicial as to whether or not the crime was committed or... We understand that, what bond works. But nonetheless, she doesn't present well. Those videos of her and previous encounters with the law

certainly are prejudicial. Previous encounters? Previous encounters? Previous encounters? My, my, my. Why don't you just tell it like it is? She's been busted. She has a criminal history. But you and I both know, prosecutor and defense, that cases get worked out.

This case calls out for some sort of sentence worked out in advance. As a defense attorney, I don't know that I want to risk her going to trial. As you described, the victim certainly so valued a member of his family, even though without children. You know, those things play hard in a jury's mind, as you know. And I would say it's a case that I try to work out with the district attorney's office. She's going to face jail time, that's for sure. Body cam.

You know, the great late Alexander Pope wrote, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. And boy, he can say that again. She'll throw out a couple of legal phrases every once in a while. And let me debunk or debrief you on what Jason Oceans said. That's why he wins so many cases. He said she's had several previous encounters with law enforcement. Translation, she's been busted a lot in the past. Then he goes, this is a case that screams to be worked out.

In other words, he wants a cheap plea. I can see him coming. I could see you, Jason Oceans, when I was practicing law, I could see one of the, let's just say silk stocking lawyers, which means they had a $3,000 Armani suit and this literally silk socks coming down the hall with their designer briefcase with a dull shine to it, not too shiny, but just the right amount of shiny, you know, not classless, but just barely gleaming. And they would want to quote, work it out. Okay. I know guys, we are talking about a woman, a law grad at prestigious Suffolk University. I'm sure they're proud tonight. Has everything at her disposal.

Everything. The future in front of her. But look and listen to her. How much have you had to drink, ma'am? Like two drinks. And they were like, you can't go outside without like a little, you need to get an Uber account. Officers were unable to conduct a standardized field sobriety test away. It should also be noted that officers were unable to conduct a standardized field sobriety test due to the defendant's belligerent nature and behavior.

But they did note that she had slurred speech and that she was extremely unsteady on her feet. And she was belligerent throughout the entire arrest process. Okay. Joining me, in addition to Sidney Sumner, who calls the defendant brilliant, and Jason Oceans, veteran trial lawyer in multiple jurisdictions, Dan Murphy is joining me for a reason. Former NYPD detective sergeant, Joint Terrorism Task Force, former chief security officer, U.S. Bank Corp, co-host of Gold Shields, author of Workplace Safety. Okay, I can go on and on.

But Dan Murphy, enough about your resume. Can I just, I want you to hear something. You heard the prosecutor stand up in court. And this, this is, this hurts. She says the officers were unable to do a field sobriety test. Okay. I want that field sobriety test so I can then show it and describe it to a jury. But wait for it, Dan Murphy. I wonder why they couldn't do a sobriety. Listen. I want a lawyer. I'm not talking to you. I am not talking to you.

Absolutely not. I want a lawyer. I say I'm not talking to you. What are you talking about? I didn't say anything contrary to that. I don't care. I don't know if you can see your monitor, Dan, but the cops are like standing back watching her like spew like she's Mount Vesuvius. OK, one more thing. Listen to this. Listen. Awesome. I'm such a crime suspect. I am so abusive.

Yeah. Well, that's the thing. Lauren, listen to me. You guys are trained nypd and if you guys are scared of 125 pound woman you guys need to get better training ma'am you're in hoboken you know where you are yeah but yeah i know where i am where are you hoboken because i just said it yeah shut the up okay so she's screaming. I want a lawyer. She refused to take a breathalyzer.

She's screaming. Don't touch me. That's an assault. I will sue you. I'm smarter than all of you. I'm a law grad. Yeah. You know what?

I would just put her and her bony rear end into that cruiser and send her straight to the can. That's where she needs to be. They can do a BAC there. They can take her blood there. Have fun with that. That's right. That's right. She's refusing to cooperate with any of the procedural norms that take place when someone's arrested for DUI.

That moment she gets brought in, gets brought to the hospital first, because you always want to make sure she's not in danger of alcohol poisoning because someone who's this intoxicated can be. And then blood's going to get thrown. And she wants to do enough. That's part of the courts. And the blood will be the evidence against her. Don't trust this. I mean, this alone.

Wait, wait a minute. Dan, you mean I can't prove this case by just rolling the body cam? Oh, yeah, you can. You can. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. But there's always going to be some kind of defense that she was on a medication that did this. But anybody with a brain is going to look at this and say she's smashed.

The MIT campus becomes the site of a harrowing accident when Daniel O'Neill, while waiting at a red light on his moped, is struck by a speeding vehicle. OK, right there. That's the problem. It was not an accident. It was a crash caused by the defendant's inebriation. Drunk. She smelled like liquor a mile away, And yet she told the cops they stunk of cologne. I would have put her in cuffs right then. Joining me, special guest, Kimberly Cockrell, victim services manager, mad. Mothers against drunk driving. Kimberly, this was not an accident. I hate when people say it was an accident. It was her decision to drink, drink, drink, drink, drink one drink after the next, get her car keys, get into her car, crank it up, reverse it, put it in drive and hit the street. And this guy, this beloved senior in his little

moped group was at a red light. He was basically a fixed object. This is not an accident. These are never accidents, Nancy. These are crashes. They are collisions. These are things that happen because people make choices. Daniel made a choice that night. He made a choice to go out on his moped, which is something he normally does. And he broke no laws. He was just going to do something he normally does. Unfortunately, it looks like this woman was doing exactly what she normally does as well. She was out. She was intoxicated. She was under the influence and she was behind the wheel of a car. She never should have been behind the wheel of that car. You are correct. This is a crash and it ended this man's life. Jason Oceans is joining

me, a veteran trial lawyer in this jurisdiction and many others. This is one of his specialties. Jason Oceans, we go back a long way, so take off your defense hat just for a moment. Have you noticed that when a victim is killed by a drunk driver, somehow that's treated differently in court than if, say, the defendant took out a knife and stabbed them in the gut and they bled out on the sidewalk. But the victim is still dead. All of the family is still mourning the friends in shock. He was at a red light, completely still stopped when his life ended just like that. But it's true. There are certain cases and I don't understand the differentiation that are treated as less severe and And vehicular homicide is one. DUI homicide.

Very often when the victim is an infant, you see a manslaughter. What, the baby crying just drove the dad crazy so he had to kill it? No, no. This is one of those. Why is that, Jason? You know, Nancy, it's a really good societal question that you raise. And I think we look at these things, especially involving a vehicle, a vehicular homicide, a recent tragedy in New York over the weekend with two children killed and a driver going 50 in a 25, but not facing murder or, you know, stronger charges as a result of the egregiousness and the history of bad driving. Here, the same thing. We don't societally have enough strength in our state laws that look

at it. And it only takes these tragedies or enough high profile cases where their possibility is a chance of stronger vehicular homicide. And I think alcohol being a legal drug, I think people put themselves in that space that that could be them. And they look at those cases and there's a leniency to those and people get off on a lesser charge or lesser length of conviction

than they would, as you said, with a weapon. You're actually making my teeth hurt. Isn't that a sign of a heart attack? Jason, somehow you took my question and you mangled it and you threw it back at me, and somehow you seem to be blaming society for what this woman did. No, I'm not saying that, Nancy. I'm saying we look at it differently in society. Yeah, you said it's a societal issue.

I don't even know what that means, a societal issue. Well, because we haven't had enough state laws that strengthen these things. Let me give you a little reality check, Oceans. What is the max you can get on habitual violator homicide? 25 to life. Did I hear the word life? 20, you kind of like. 25 to life.

25 to life. You kind of went 25 to life. Okay, there you go. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Kimberly Cockrell, why? crime stories with nancy grace kimberly cockrell why is habitual violator that is a dui offender that's done it over and over and over in many jurisdictions it's it takes your fifth your fourth or fifth dui until you're charged with hv habitual violator. She is a habitual violator in my mind because this is at least her fourth arrest. Hey, Sydney, how many arrests has this woman had? Seven arrests in the last three years, Nancy. Seven arrests. Oh, there we go. Assault

on Ellie, Jan 23. Disorderly conduct. I'm sure she was drunk. October 24, disorderly conduct. 25, DUI. 25. Three times in the last year. To be an HB, a virtual violator, I think you have to have more than three. Wait. Let me drink this in for a moment.

No! You don't f*** me! You have no reason more than three. Wait, let me drink this in for a moment. No, you don't f*** me. You have no reason to be here. Today. Today. You okay? Because I'm in the same area. I'm in my house. I got all the same f***ing things.

They? I have not lived here since 2020. I mean tonight. I just moved here in 2020. So what the are we even talking about? So you can off. Okay, Sydney, we just showed sound of her drunk and abusive in front of a Christmas tree. What is that? Nancy, that's January 2nd of 2023 when Mullins' neighbors called police because she was harassing them. There was some constant issue going on between them and Mullins comes home so drunk that she won't stop knocking on their door and let this issue lie. So cops are called and there's no crime. They're just trying to make sure that she's okay.

At this point, they see how intoxicated she is. They realize she won't leave her neighbors alone, might end up actually committing a crime. So cops determine that she needs to go to the hospital. And that's when Mullen starts freaking out, losing her mind. You know what's interesting? Dr. John Delatore is joining us, psychologist, mediator, specializes in forensic psychology. He's a psychological consultant to Project Absence.

It's a nonprofit. You can find him at Dr. John Delatore. Dr. Delatore, we were just showing her in her apartment and the dichotomy was, let me just say jolting because you see her all that, but her apartment is really pretty and it's neat as a pin and the Christmas tree is perfectly decorated and the dichotomy between her own personal behavior and where she lives, the fact that she has graduated from Suffolk Law School, she's held down several internships. A lot of people would not be able to, let me just say, make those two mesh, right, to reconcile the chaos in her life versus the seemingly neatness and orderliness of everything around her. Yeah, Nancy, and I want to be clear. She made the choice to drink alcohol. But what this should tell all of us watching her is the disastrous nature that alcohol can have on a person.

She is clearly someone that can manage her life outside of alcohol. But the moment she takes just one sip, it has to be five, six, ten drinks, probably hard liquor. She probably believes that wine is the okay thing, that it's going to be the thing that brings her down. But for her, everything is about getting that next drink to calm herself down or get herself going. Otherwise, she probably wouldn't be engaging in any of these behaviors. But the moment she takes a drink, her whole world falls apart and she takes people with her she harms other people and and the the legal system doesn't seem to be willing to say no to put her in a position where she's

no longer a danger to herself or the community we're blurring that because she starts uh stripping off all of her clothes okay yeah and i don't want to see that but dr delatori everything you said makes sense except i don't understand. I mean, I'm just a JD. I'm not an MD. I'm not a shrink like you. It's hard for me to reconcile how she keeps everything else in her life compartmentalized in such order. I mean, if you look at everything in her home, it's neatly stacked up.

It's perfectly arranged. Nothing's out of place, but her life is chaos. It's the duality of alcoholism of place, but her life is chaos. It's the duality of alcoholism. Now, I'm not going to say that it's a disease or anything like that. I'm just saying that her issue is primarily related to the very moment that she takes a drink of alcohol. Anything else she can manage well. She is intelligent enough, brilliant maybe, to manage the normal personal affairs. But when that alcoholism takes over, she becomes something else. She becomes something much more dangerous, both to herself

and to the world around her. No one is safe when she starts drinking. No one. And the only way that she can actually live a healthy life is through abstinence. And she refuses to do that. Police arrest Lauren Mullins, a recent Suffolk law graduate for operating under the influence after her SUV slams into O'Neill's moped, sending him careening into a nearby police vehicle. What is he talking about operating under the influence. The victim is dead. He flew through the air and died. Okay. So this is upgraded to a homicide charge. Now I want you to hear, we've got so many arrests of her screaming at the cops, the body cam. Thank you for body cam because very often juries don't believe when officers describe what happened. Now we actually have body cam. Her rap sheet spans multiple states. It includes assaulting officers,

disorderly conduct, driving under the influence. Kimberly Cockrell joining us from MADD, Modes Against Drunk Driving. Unless you put a violator in lockdown, either in jail or a halfway house, they are not going to go to rehab or they would have already done it. Absolutely. We have this problem all the time. This is with almost every case I deal with. And what is really sad about this is her defense attorney at her arraignment said that her, her issues are quote unquote curable. He said curable. I want to know at what point he determined that because her, her record goes all the way back to 2014. That was maybe when he had a shot at that,

but the egregious behavior that she exhibits on these body cams, that is something that this family, the family of Daniel O'Neill, has to look at that and listen to that over and over and over again, knowing that if it would have been curable and if she would have been stopped before, Daniel O'Neill would still be here. Speaking of Mullen's defense attorney, here he is. Should she get out? She can't drink anymore, ever. She can't drive anymore's defense attorney, here he is. Should she get out? She can't drink anymore, ever. She can't drive anymore for a very, very long time. But home confinement, this is not an 18-year-old gang kid. And I'd suggest that even given the record that you see before you, Your Honor, it is recent. It's not a lifetime of it. And it is durable and mediaable, whether it takes years or even decades. But given that, Your Honor, I'd ask that the change has not been sufficient to justify a hundred thousand dollars. You know, Jason Oceans, the judge typically has the full file in front of her, him on the bench.

In other words, all the rap sheet, everything. And here you get the defense attorney. Should she get out, which by the way, the judge allowed, bail. Should she get out? She can't drink anymore ever. Okay, her record starts at 2014. We're going on, what is that? That's 11 years she's been arrested over and over. It's curable.

That's not what Kimberly Cockrell just says. And he wants a bond. I think he's phrasing it in a way defense counsels do to portray his client in the best light and establish some basis that she'll return to court and that home confinement and the ability not to drive will suffice in terms of the ability for her to cause any more harm to the community, which seems to be when she's drinking and driving. So eliminating that and home confinement will suffice in terms of the ability for her to cause any more harm to the community, which seems to be when she's drinking and driving. So eliminating that in home confinement and the promise that she'll return to court for all of her hearings and was sufficient for the judge to establish bail. That's really all that the defense counsel did, just creating that element there.

That's all. Yeah, I don't even know what you just said. Let's see the video of her in her home, screaming at the police home confinement, my rear end home confinement. She was berating and that's not in her home. Oh, that's outside of her home. There we go. In front of the Christmas tree. Merry Christmas, cops. You're about to get a big present. I can't hear her. There she is. There she is in all her splendor and glory. You know, Dan Murphy joining me, former NYPD detective sergeant, co-host Gold Shields.

The way she rips into these police officers, calling them, telling them to suck her. Well, I'm going to get bleeped. D-I-C-K. Calling them the P word. Do I need to spell that for you, Dan? Just F this, F that, threatening them. Do they get paid enough for that? Really? No, you simply don't get paid enough to put up with this. And frankly, I've dealt with this so many times. She is a blackout drunk. She does not remember what she's saying. She won't remember this tomorrow morning when she wakes up in a cell and ever arrested people for up to and including murder who did not remember what they did.

That's how bad this looks. I don't care. Nancy, I only tell you because that's how bad she is drunk. That's how bad she is. She's a threat to everybody. You know who else I want to lock up tonight? The judge, Judge David Frank. Yeah, I'm talking about you.

Listen to this guy. I am going to order that if the defendant were to post the bail and be released, that she be on a GPS with home confinement, a scram device, and that she'd surrender her passport. Oh, you showed her. She's getting out on bond with a GPS around her ankle. She'll cut that out in the New York Minute and surrender her passport. Really?

Kimberly Cockrell, can you help me out here? What is wrong with this judge? How many people does she have to mow down? How many cops does she have to assault? How many cops does she have to insult before she goes to jail? Nancy, this is something I struggle with every day with my position. I have judges right and left letting offenders out. We are successful sometimes in keeping them in until they are scheduled to go before another judge at that point for their trial or for their plea. And we've been successful in the past in keeping several in for a couple of years because their crimes were just that egregious and they had killed just that many people. We had in South Carolina where we lost three girls, three out of four in the car. We

were successful in keeping that woman in prison, excuse me, in jail until her prison term began. But it is few and far between. The majority of these judges let them out on bond. And let me explain about house arrest. That's fine, except for the fact that they don't always stay at home. I've had one leave before and go out and get another DUI while he was on house arrest. These people don't care. They care about themselves. And when she broke down in the courtroom crying before, well, she has to list out her the fact that she's a budding attorney and that she sat for the sat for her, her law degree so that she could become an attorney. She brings that out before she anything's even mentioned about the victim in that arraignment. She wants to get her law degree out there because that's a privilege,

thinking that's going to make the judge care about her more. The judge shouldn't care about her at that point, give her due process, but care more about the victim. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. If you never let me out of this car, you'll never win the Super Bowl. Let me out!

Travis! Travis! Travis! Are you f***ing kidding me? Travis! Travis! Travis! Are you kidding me? Travis! I am the wife of an NFL player! Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. See what I'm saying?

One, let's go! you, we got this. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Relax, relax! Relax. Relax. Relax. She just called the cops effing P-word. Whoa.

Okay, Dr. Todd Barr, I'm just a JD again. You're the MD. Dr. Todd Barr joining us, special guest,certified anatomic clinical forensic pathologist, Franklin County Forensic Science Center, Office of the Coroner in Columbus, Ohio, featured in Thin Places, essays from In Between. Dr. Barr, help me. They could never get a blood alcohol on her because she was so volatile. And we hear her saying, I'm the wife of an NFL player. You're never going to win the Superbowl. Now this is just before the Philly Eagles Chiefs Superbowl. So she clearly knows the date, what time of the year it is. You know, when I, for instance, had a child victim on the stand and they did not know when the incident occurred, I'd say, well, was the Christmas tree up? Was the Easter Bunny coming?

Was Halloween? Did you have a Halloween outfit so we could narrow down the date? She knows when it is. You're never going to win the Super Bowl if you don't let me out. I'm the wife of an NFL player. That's before she calls the cops effing peas. OK, so how drunk is she, Dr. Barr? I don't have a blood alcohol for you. Well, that's a very difficult question to ask and answer because certain people when I when I was in medical school and rotated through the emergency department,

we had a woman that came in and her blood alcohol was point four.45 and she was walking and talking like a normal person. So that shows you that it's quite variable. Someone that doesn't drink and is a lightweight could have this type of behavior with a 0.15 or a 0.2 alcohol BAC. But people who binge drink and as this woman woman probably has done develops a certain level of tolerance over the years and that's why over the years we can see them actually reach much higher blood alcohol contents like 0.3 0.4 but the fact that this woman was in the commission of a crime, she was driving under the influence, which is a felony crime in most states, and particularly when injuries occur, as it did in this case. And then ultimately, the gentleman passed a day or two later. And so it is unfortunate

that they don't have a BAC on this woman for any of her offenses. But I would say she's pretty high up there. Dr. Todd Barr joining us out of Ohio. Dr. Barr, the legal limit in that jurisdiction, Massachusetts, is.08. Correct. Let's just go with 5'5 and 135 pounds. How much do you have to drink to point be 0.08 in a woman 125 pounds probably about two drinks will get you to that limit i'm interested in what you said dr bar about how when you were in med school you had a woman that was 0.45 i think you said and she was walking and talking

i assume you mean coherently yes fairly coherently coherently. Unlike this. Correct. I agree with whoever's earlier about blacking out. I believe she was so inebriated that she just doesn't even have a concept of where she is or what she's doing. That's not a defense. She certainly knows enough to throw around legal jargon, lawsuit, a law grad, I'm smarter than you, you enticed me. She goes on and on and on throwing out legalisms. So she obviously knows something. She knows that the Super Bowl is about to happen. She knows to threaten the cops. Let me ask you this. Now, this may be anecdotal, not based on any statistical study, but Dr. Barr, how much do you have to drink till your skin actually stinks of alcohol?

Usually people that, you know, consume one or two beverages, they're not going to be reeking of alcohol. You know, once you get into that, you're starting to do shots and, you know, the pores are just exuding the, we noticed this at autopsy, to be honest with you, when we have a decedent that has consumed a large quantity of alcohol, when we're doing an autopsy, we can smell it seeping out of the skin at the autopsy table. Dr. Barr, question. I've had a lot of witnesses. I'll say, have you been drinking? Because I don't want to put somebody drunk on the stand.

And they go, no. And I'm like, I'm smelling your breath. And I would get close to them. and their breath didn't smell of alcohol. It was their skin. They actually oozed the smell of alcohol. And you just told me you've cut some people open before on autopsy and it just like, like a fine wine. You could just smell the booze. I got to hear this. Tell me. Well, clearly they're not breathing, right? Because they're on an autopsy table. So there's no air exchange. We're not getting it from them expelling air into the room. It's actually oozing out of all of their pores. And these volatile gases that are involved in alcohol,

they do, they vaporize and they go out into the environment and they come out through the pores. I just want you to hear her. Everyone's talking about she's blacked out. She doesn't know what she's doing here. She is threatening a lawsuit. No, that's not. It's not tight enough. I, it's not tight enough! Oh, it's not tight enough! Oh, it's not tight enough! I hope you have the on the body cam. It's not tight enough! Oh, that's another lawsuit

coming. She says that's another lawsuit coming and it ain't over yet. Listen. Oh, please. That's another lawsuit. Oh, please. I can't wait till I pass the bar exam. That's another lawsuit coming. That's another lawsuit. Oh, please. I can't wait until I pass the bar exam. That's another lawsuit coming. That's another lawsuit coming. That's another lawsuit coming.

You take it so funny, so that's all you need to do. I just need some light. Why are you taking so long? It's supposed to be easy, right? Because you're moving around. It's supposed to be easy. They say it's supposed to be easy without somebody even coming into that.

She did pass the bar exam. As Dr. Delatore explained earlier, I don't know how to explain the dichotomy in her, but I do know this. The victim is dead, flew through the air to his death, and the judge granted bond. And that's okay. If you know or think you know anything about this case, the state is still putting together their case, please dial 617-349-3300. Repeat. 617-349-3300. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.