Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - SERIAL KILLER LAIR? CHEMICALS, HIDDEN COMPARTMENTS, BODY DRUM, TED BUNDY LETTER

Episode Date: August 24, 2026

Eugene Horsch's arrest after a traffic stop leads to an extensive investigation into missing women.  When he was taken into custody, police found him with fake Drug Enforcement Administration credentials, a switchblade, and two firearms with altered serial numbers.  His passenger was carrying a fake ID with the name of a missing woman, Blair Tonzelli. that is what lead the searches of his home.  Police and federal agents have recovered: Over 600,000 images and 70,000 videos thought  that appear to show the bodies of two missing women — Maribel Fresses (last seen 2018) and Gabrielle Amarando (missing since 2012)  Five urns believed to contain cremated remains, a home lab in the basement, and containers of unknown oily substances   120 pieces of ballistic evidence, marijuana growing materials, and other suspicious items   Authorities have not recovered the women’s bodies, but the medical examiner has stated that if the images and evidence are authentic, the women are deceased  Horsch has been charged with: Firearms offenses False federal credentials Possession and possession with intent to deliver drugs He is not charged with the women's disappearances.      JOINING NANCY GRACE: Greg J. Morse  -  Greg Morse of Morse Legal; current CJA counsel (Southern District of Florida); Former West Palm Beach Public Defender’s Office; Author: “The Untested” found on Amazon; website: morselegal.com Dr. Bethany Marshall  -  Psychoanalyst,  Author: "Deal Breaker, "  featured on"Paris in Love" on Peacock and "The Valley, Persian Style" on Bravo.   Host of a new podcast "On The Couch with Dr. Bethany Marshall" Website: drbethanymarshall.com, Instagram FB & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, Twitter:@DrBethanyLive Brian Fitzgibbons -  Director of Operations for USPA Nationwide Security, Leads a team of investigators specializing in locating missing persons, website: www.uspasecurity.com, Instagram: @uspa_nationwide_security, former Marine and Iraq war veteran Heather Adams  - True Crime Content Creator, Author: "When Love Kills"-- A collection of true crime cases coming out in 2027, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube: @Idetectiveauthor Dave Mack - Investigative Reporter, 'Crime Stories  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Crave, Netflix, and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on Internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Bombshell tonight is a serial killer stalking women.

in Philly and have police unwittingly happened upon a serial killers layer complete with deadly chemicals, hidden compartments, a 55 gallon body drum, and even a letter praising Ted Bundy. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Police find violent videos and photographs of missing women inside the home of erotic photographer, R.C. Horsh. Police continue to sift through thousands of disturbing geographic digital files as the investigation unfolds. Serve a search warrant at 417-2 Avenue. Recovered. Another illegal gun. Gun parts.

A marijuana grow operation with a street value of over $280,000. Another badge. time it was an FBI badge with credentials. Also in a house were five urns containing what we believe is the cremated remains. Another search warrant was served at 417 Chu Avenue. At this time, it was led by the homicide unit, crime scene, ATF, and a bomb disposal unit. Found that this time, during this search warrant, would appear to be some type of lab or home lab in the basement, various containers containing an unknown oily substance and over 50 pieces of electronic devices and this is hard drives computers thumb drives things of that nature from our friends at fox 29

wait till you hear about the 55 gallon drum there's a 55 gallon drum there's connections to it go into water lines we just don't know what he's doing if he's he's producing something if he's making something, if he's irrigating something, we don't know. When we serve the search warrant again on that property to remove the sewer line, the lateral, and the trap. And we wanted to examine the contents in that sewer line. The 20 plus containers with the unknown substance was delivered to a special lab in Chicago for testing and analysis. Heather Adams joining us, I-detective author on Insta, author of When Love Kiels. Why doesn't he? just take out an ad on 3rd Avenue and go, I'm a serial killer, arrest me. That's from our friends at

ABC 6 and Fox 29, a 55 gallon drum, a body drum, as it is called, deadly chemicals. What else was found in this guy's home? Well, first of all, let me respond. He actually basically did put out an ad. The man has written multiple books where he even calls himself an empathetic serial killer. But back to his house, they found over 600,000 images. They found over 70,000 videos, tons of writings, you know, a letter to Ted Bundy. Hold on, Heather Adams, you got me drinking on the fire hydrant. Again, I think I heard the number 70,000, but I thought I was having a nightmare. What did you just say? Over 600,000 images and over 70,000 videos. And they are all of violent, sexual nature. Okay. To Dr. Bethany Marshall, hold on just a moment. I don't want to push Heather Adams,

but when I hear things like violent sexual nature, to me that says snuff film. That's what that says to me, where you're beating, sex assaulting, torturing, women, animals, children, just wild guess, but probably since I've got all these missing women, probably just women. I'm going to give all your street cred in just one moment, but violent sexual nature. I mean, the way she said that, it sounds like the Avon lady at the front door. Hi, I've got potpourri. I've got lotions. I've got perfumes and videos of a violent sexual nature. It just kind of like, it doesn't really bam. What is found in the man's home? Hit me. Well, just when, when you say, say sex crimes of a violent nature, I imagine a woman being taken in off the street, being told

that she can be a star, that he's going to video her, going to make her a porn star. He claims to have done adult films, then being drugged, being sedated, being tortured. Why are you doing it too? Adult films. I mean, that could be Sophie's choice. That could be anything. Bethany, please. Speak, plain, English. When you say adult films, you're totally airbrushing the reality of what snuff film and porn in violent movies, degrading, beating, assaulting women, what it really is. Torturing, burning, strangling, genital mutilation, facial mutilation, beating. One woman had blood coming out of an eye and a bloody lip, so you have to wonder, you know, where their eyes being beaten.

You know, I had a patient who helped clean up Ted Bundy's house, you know, as part of the forensic team who came in. And wait, that was Dahmer, not Bundy. He described stalactites of blood. Dahmer who killed so many little boys and teenage boys on his mattress that the blood had soaked through over the years and formed blood stalactites under the bed. So if we think about what we might find in R.C. Horch's house, it'll really bring up close and personal the reality of what these women endured. Like what, how did he inflict Max Campa? Max campaign. What did he promise them?

Did they bleed out? Were they, were there, was their skin slashed? I mean, you know, with these serial killer or status, sex and brutality go hand in hand. They use brutality to become sexually excited. So think about it as an offender who likes child porn, let's say. And an image of a five-year-old is not exciting enough, so they go to a four-year-old, then a three-year-old, and then a baby, then a baby being eaten by a lion. I mean, they have to push the envelope.

So a serial killer like this is going to inflict greater amounts of torture on his victims in order to achieve the same sexual arousal he had at the beginning of a defending pattern. Let me see, please, control room, the images of the missing, likely murdered women that we're talking about that we know of right now. I believe this is the tip of the iceberg. These are gorgeous young women, sisters, daughters, mothers, coworkers. They're missing.

believe dead and cops unwittingly stumble upon a house of horrors speaking of all the images that Heather Adams

eye detective author was telling us about it's overwhelming the digital evidence that we serve search warrants on started coming in we utilize the RCFL and that's the regional computer forensic lab. The amount of information and digital evidence that we got was

astonishing. The investigators in that investigative group, we have to look over 600,000 images, 70,000 videos, and over 10,000 pages of writings, manuscripts, and drawings. We have to review and organize those. While searching the first hard drive, homicides detectives found the images and video of what appeared to be two deceased females. Those females have been identified. We know who they are. This is new territory for the homicide unit in Philadelphia. Usually when we have a homicide investigation, we have a body. We have body parts. This time we do not. He mentioned RCFL. That is a regional computer forensics laboratory. It's a new FBI digital forensic technique that they are using. It's a high-tech lab of digital and computer crime

fighting. They're bringing out the big guns. Why? Because women are dropping like flies. Are they dead? Are they missing? A lot of the video you are hearing where you're hearing inspector Ray Evans speaking, that's for our friends at Fox 29 and NBC10. Back to our investigative report. joining us, Heather Adams, when you said 600,000 images and 70,000 videos, and then you hear Dr. Bethany Marshall's description of what they contained, all of that is probative in my mind, okay? Because what you entertain, what you read, what you watch, what you introduce into your home, that is where your heart lies, where you spend your time,

your money, your hopes, your dreams, your spare time, that's what you love the most. And if he is that tied to snuff films and violence on women, it's like, you know, when the devil shows up at your door, don't open the door. And if you do open the door and he comes in for a cup of tea, next thing you know, he'll be having supper. Then he'll be spending the night. Don't let it in. But it's in 600,000 images.

Yes, it is. Of what? Are any of these missing women in these images? Do we know yet? Yes. Yes, actually. Yes. So two of them are. And that would be Gabrielle Amarando and Maribel Fressis. So they have been identified in these videos. And they appear. alive at one point and then they appear deceased at one point. If the images in the video are real and not altered in any way, then based on their review, the ME would believe the individuals depicted in the images are deceased. However, without having an actual body or body parts to physically examine, the ME cannot conclusively declare them deceased. Therefore, the ME cannot provide death certificate or determine the cause of death. That first female is Maribel Freshus, F-R-E-S-S-E-S-S. She's 27. She was born in 1990. Last scene, February 2018. About two hours later, we made the second notification. That female is named Gabriela Amarando, A-M-A-R-A-N-D-O.

born in 1990. She's been missing since September 2012. To Dave Mac, Crime Stories investigative reporter, Dave Mac, what all was found in the home? Nancy, as you've already mentioned,

you've got 70,000 videos, 600,000 pictures, digital stills. But beyond that, we've also got chemicals, Nancy, and they're, Investigators trying to determine what these chemicals actually are. They've got all throughout the home, you've got drugs, you've got proof of a marijuana grow operation.

But if you really want to get weird, earlier in the press conference, they mentioned an oily type substance that they found. All right, this goes back to a 55-gallon drum. They found these barrel the drums, okay, the 55-gallon drum, but it had pipes coming out of it and going into the plumbing of the home and out of the home. That's why they have been digging up plumbing outside, waterways and the other pipes that go away from the home.

On top of that, we've got fake DEA credentials, switchblade knives, drugs including cocaine, fentanyl, and marijuana. We've got ammunition. We've got, as I mentioned, the marijuana grow operation. But the biggest issue is that these the barrel there, the 55 gallon barrel and the pipes going out, go into the plumbing and sewer system and the groundwater on top of that. Investigators describe portions of the basement resembling a chemical laboratory. Containers and equipment, they can't even figure out the actual purpose of all of this, Nancy, but it goes back to a description written by R.C. the father of Eugene Horch, the pornographer and writer of filth, R.C. Horsh actually described strangling a woman and using chemicals to get rid of her body. And that's where we go back to the 55-gallon barrel and the oily type substance found in there. I know it's stringing from the fire hose, Nancy, but there's a lot going on in this house.

Get Bell pure fiber internet with craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Okay, I really don't know where to stop some of that video from Fox 29, but oh, dear Lord in heaven. How do you like to meet him in an alley? Okay, now let's see the sun. Oh, my stars. Okay, Greg Morse joining me, high-profile defense attorney of Morse legal, author of The Untested former West Palm Beach County's Public Defender's Office, which means he's already tried a lot of cases now in private practice. That's not good when the law enforcement officers are,

taking apart your plumbing? Do I need to refresh your recollection about what happened to the home of Long Island serial killer Rex Heerman? We watched as it was dismantled, board by board, tearing out the whole bathroom. Then they complained their house was torn down. Gee, wow, well maybe you shouldn't have killed so many women there and flushed evidence down the commode and the sinks. Not a good look, Morse, when your client's plumbing is being yanked out. Well, in this situation, it's not that big of a deal for Eugene because his dad died last year. And as you pointed out, his dad seemed to be into this stuff, made movies. So his dad, he can just blame stuff on his dad.

His defense lawyer already did have made a statement, hey, those chemicals were there when dad was there. And listen, the fact that people have movies and things that maybe. ordinary society wouldn't watch, doesn't mean you're guilty of what's in those movies. I mean, the late great actor James Gandalfini and Nicholas Cage are in a movie called Snuff, I believe, that was made in the 90s. No one's investigating them, and this is wholly different from the serial killer in Long Island. Yeah, because Gandalfini is dead, number one, and he was in one movie that you're describing, and he played a mobster. This guy...

I'm really surprised that you are. Let me just say, pissing on Gandalfini's grave. Not pissing on it, just pointing out. You're getting muted. Cut his mic. That was wrong to compare the one movie he made about this topic. You know what? Let's get back to the facts.

And I'll let Greg Morse think for a few moments about what he just said. Brian Fitzgibbons is joining us, Director of Operations USAPA nationwide security. He leads a team of investigators around the world trying to find and extract missing people. These women and many others, I might add, do you really think there's just four? I have to go to Bethany Marshall on this because once you kill, I think it's hard for serial killers to stop. And I have prosecuted serial killers. I think it's hard for them to stop. My point with you, Brian, is that there are many other women in this region missing.

And I can tell you what those drums were used, all those chemicals were used for, to destroy bodies. That's what the oily substance is we keep hearing about. Yeah, Nancy, of the four women that we're aware of, that evidence shows them inside of Horses' home on video, there's an 11-year span of when they went missing from 2012, the first one, to 2023. So the point you brought up is, you know, something that immediately came to mind for me is how many other women will be found in these 600,000 images, 70,000 hours of video. I mean, this is an incredible amount of digital evidence that's going to have to be gone through. And investigators are going to rightfully have to separate fact from fiction, you know,

what was an actual crime committed and what was this sick, perverted video stuff he was doing? And then they're going to have to identify people. But did you just say the a sick video stuff he was doing? It's stuff films where the person is killed in the end. and horrific violence on women. Right. And there may be other videos that don't include an actual murder. What if one of these women's in that snuff film? And I believe that investigators have at least insinuated that one is.

And my question is, is there more? Are there other missing women? You know, does this list grow from four to 10 to 12 in the coming days and weeks here? to Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us, renowned psychoanalyst out of the L.A. jurisdiction. Can I see the two shots of the dad? This guy's dad. Because I've got one of him wearing a freaky eye patch

dressed, it looks like, in a Catholic collar. Oh, dear, gravy. Okay, then I've got him. Oh, yeah, there he is. There he is. I mean, is there such a thing? Dr. Bethany Marshall is looking like a serial killer. Now, this is his dad. That's the father. Could this be genetic,

Bethany? I've never bought into that, but is it possible? The 600,000 images, 70,000 videos, all 10,000 pages of writing. This tells me how obsessed and compulsive both men were. That takes a lot of time and a lot of energy to produce that much material. We know about sex offenders in general, They love to videotape their victims because they can use it for masturbatory material again and again. And Nancy, we're talking about violence on women. I'm sorry, use it for what? Masturbatory material. Use what for what?

The images. The 600,000 images, 10,000 videos and 10,000 pages, and 10,000 pages of writing, they can comb back through all that material. and use it to masturbate because what they're doing is they're inflicting harm on women to increase their sexual excitement. That is the M.O. Behind all these crimes. And Nancy, this isn't just violence against women.

We keep using the word violence on this show. It's torture. There's a slight distinction. Violence might be you're mad at your wife because you think she flirted with somebody else, so you beat her up when you get home, you get dysregulated. Torture.

is prolonging the life of the victim while that victim is in serious states of pain, because you're trying to maintain a level of sexual arousal by inflicting the pain and the harm. I'm thinking about a patient of mine who is an adult revealed to me that she had the remnants of cigarette burns all over her genitals because her father, when she was an infant, would put out cigarettes. on her genitals. So that would be something that we would see in a case like this. Maybe skinning the victim, you know, trying to strip skin off, maybe dismembering them, maybe poking out an eye. I mean, think of the worst thing you could do, the worst to cause suffering, yet not have your victim die too soon because you need them alive and

screaming and screaming in pain and screaming for mercy so you can maintain an erection. That's really what all this is about. There is one slim light in this darkness. I believe one woman was actually saved from certain death at the hands of a new Philadelphia serial killer. How did the whole thing start? The United States Park police officer conducted a car stop pedestrian investigation at that location. The vehicle was a BMW. In the vehicle, there were two passengers, a passenger and a driver.

The driver was a Eugene Horsh. He's a 44-year-old male from 417 Choo Avenue. The passenger is a white female. provided fake ID in the name of Blair Tanzelli. The Ranger heard a woman crying, intervened. When they searched the car, they find hoarse carrying a fake DEA badge, a switchblade, two guns with serial numbers, scratched off, nothing good about that.

The woman was carrying a fake ID with her photo, but the name was different. But the name of a woman who had been reported missing. The woman that was reported missing in that area back in Feb, 23, was on the ID. The woman told investigators, Horsch, made her the fake ID and had her carry it. So back to you, Brian Fitzgibbons, the woman that was screaming in the car with him had a fake ID. With her, the woman's photo, but the name was. name of a woman that's been missing for three years. That's not a coincidence.

Yeah. And does this speak to the fact that, you know, Eugene Horst, the son, is so brazen to use a missing woman's ID that they might have IDs all over that residence. And this was just one that happened to be lying around, that nothing in particular about Blair Tonzelli's person stuck out to Eugene that he could use this, right? So that points to me that, you know, there's definitely more that's going to come from this, not just the four missing women that we know of now, that we will hear about others connected to this father and son duo. I'm looking at their faces for any similarities in their appearance, because if you look at, for instance, Ted Bundy's victims, they all bear a striking.

similarity, as do Rex Hewerman's victims. Back to Heather Adams joining us, host of I-Dective Author. She's also author of When Love Kills. It's a collection of true crime cases about to come out. Heather, isn't it true that there were five urns containing what we believe to be human remains in the layer? That's correct. Five urns containing human remains, but they have not disclosed.

identities at this point, if they can even figure that out. Greg Morse, five urns of what we believe to be human remains. Well, they need to link them to the son. You're right. Yeah, absolutely. Of course, he took the home over from the dad, and the dad just died. You just showed a picture and said how horrible the dad probably is the way he looks, and that's what the son's going to say.

He takes over this house. Dad's doing whatever he's doing in there. The fact that he made snuff movies or whatever doesn't mean they're nonfiction. You know, the government's going to have to prove that these people existed and also have a body that they are actually deceased. You started out your show, showing that the police said we cannot say that the people in the videos are actually deceased when they look dead. So these are all things that are going to help the son tremendously. He's got his own problems with... Greg Morris.

Yeah. Are you telling me this guy reportedly made videos and had the missing women who have never been found pretend to be dead? They're not really dead. Well, you've got to prove they are. Well, because there's nothing definitive at all. The police said it themselves, that they cannot say the women in the video that are missing, the two that they saw alive in the video and appearing to be deceased. that they are actually deceased because they don't have a body.

So this is not an unusual thing. I mean, they've made movies about it. You cannot take. What's not unusual that you find 70,000 snuff-related films? Two of them are of missing women. And you said that's not unusual. What? Well, no, because these things you can have.

What's in your basement, Morrison? You think this is SOP. Nothing. I want to get in your basement. Now. It's not S&U. It's not SOP, but it doesn't mean he's going to be charged with serial killing. It doesn't mean there's evidence that the son did this.

He has a great defense. His father lived in the home until last year. His father was into all sorts of weird stuff. And if it's not blamed on the father, and there is a link to him outside of the ammunition and weapons, he's a convicted felon. So he has those problems. He also has fake law enforcement credentials, which he has criminal charges for that, potentially. but he also is probably you can work up an insanity defense here

when you look into how this guy grew up with dad if there's a link to him. But simply because someone's into nasty, weird stuff, you have to prove this stuff is real. The government's going to have to have bodies. The government's going to have to have evidence that Eugene killed these people, not just he has a lot of videos that nobody likes

or is outside the norm in what people watch in society. And Nancy, I live in the South. We don't have basements, so there's nothing in my basement. Brian Fitzgibbon's Director Operations, USPA, nationwide security. Help me. Number one, two and two still equals four, or has that all changed in the last hour? Because these women are missing. He has videos in his home of the missing women. Two of them appear to be dead. There are other women missing in the region and five urns of human remains cremated. am I missing something from this picture?

Does Morris have a leg to stand on? You know, I think the saving grace here is that our judicial system will still bring this to a jury of his peers that a defense attorney will have to try to whitewash this away as some kind of bizarre sexual proclivity that this father and son duo had. And they're going to have to explain a missing girl. on video allegedly being killed, right? They're going to have to explain all these things and what other evidence is going to come from this house.

So you see excavators being used. You see sewer pipes being extracted. They're trying to find a connection. Is there any type of human DNA that could be connected to a missing person? Is there any type of chemicals that are using, have been used to decompose a body? Is there other probative

evidence that can be used to tie Eugene Horsch to the recruitment of these women. You know, we don't know anything about that piece yet either. Well, why else did he have a fake badge? Yeah, fake badge, multiple fake badges, DEA, FBI, you know, what devices was he communicating with these women on to lure them to the house and what were the circumstances and witnesses that were involved in that recruitment process? I think that they're the state, the state definitely has an uphill battle without a body. And we talk about that in many cases.

But, you know, these, these cases are not impossible to bring to a jury. Get Bell, Pure Fiber Internet with Crave, Netflix, and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.com for details and to check availability. Bell. Connection is Everything. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Heather Adams is joining us,

Star of Eye Detective, author, and author of When Love, It Kills. Was the son living in the home with the father before the father finally died? Yes. Yes. They have been living together.

So it wasn't, as Morse described, the dad handed over the home. and all of this stuff was in it. He was there at the time. Also, Heather Adams, isn't it true that a treasure trove of electronics and computers were also taken? Oh, yes, absolutely. To Dr. Bethany Marshall, joining us for now in psychoanalyst out of the L.A. jurisdiction. You can see her now on multiple outlets. She's starting on Hulu, Bravo, Netflix, her new podcast on the couch with Dr. Bethany Marshall. Dr. Bethany, we keep going, we keep talking about how did he lure his victims? Well, he's got a plethora of fake badges.

That's a big red sign of alarm. And the computers, the electronics. I wonder if he was meeting them online and if there's a computer trail of that. I would absolutely believe there's digital evidence, all kinds of evidence, and how do predators lure women through cameras and all of that? They promise to make them stars. What I'm really interested into is the graduating nature of these crimes. He's alleged crimes because you have the urns, the four urns with ashes,

but then you have a drum with chemicals in it that can dissolve the body that have pipes going into like a sewage system, the water system's going in and out of the house. And I was thinking about Silence of the Lambs where the victim is kept alive for some time before she's told that I believe she's going to be skinned, if I remember the film directly. And the fact that there is one woman, what broke this case wide open, was the woman crying in the car with another victim's fake ID. And if they were making up, you know, IDs off of these women, were these women's bank accounts siphoned? Were their families being stalked?

You know, because we know with Rex Cureman, he went and taunted the family members of his victims. So what are we going to see there? I mean, Nancy, the offending pattern is so vast and so creepy and so much more is going to come out that we're going to learn little details that I believe are shocking. I think what we're also going to learn

is that the torture techniques became more sophisticated over time. You know, think of meat hooks, chains, saws, knives that can puncture, things like that. We know there were switchblades in the house. What kind of torture techniques are we going to learn about that this father and son perfected over decades, Nancy? They're going to be in that 600,000 images, 70,000 videos, 10,000 pages of writing. It's all in there. There is a technique called wet cremation using chemicals to break down a human body.

Those chemicals, of course, are potassium hydroxide and sodium hydroxide. Would they create the oily substance that was found in the home? The letter praising Ted Bundy states, acting on emotion is where problems occur. What I don't think I told you was the first time it was planned ahead of time. The threat was made before you know who came over. I already had a two-foot zip tie in my pocket and a drum set up. I had been ready and waiting and I damn sure showed no hesitation, and it was fun.

To Heather Adams, tell me about the letter regarding Bundy. Well, the scary thing is that this is not the only time that he's not. written something about being a serial killer about what he's doing and enjoying it and creating empathy for it so i think that him writing a letter to ted bundy is where we could assume that the persona ends to dr bethany marshall let's talk about mementos like i like to scrapbook and i have not just pictures but all sorts of like the twins graduation their commencement services program, just all sorts of tickets, just all sorts of things that go with the pictures. I want to talk to you about serial killers that notoriously keep mementos, and a perfect one would

be Dennis Rader. He would dress up, here's a great photo of Rader. Here he is dressed up in the victim's clothes, dressed as the victim. I've got pictures of him dressed as the victim. Dennis Rader, BTK, buying, torture, kill. is just one example. Why mementos and what will it mean in this case? Well, let's remember these crimes are sexually motivated.

That is so important to understand the MO. And let's keep in mind, Nancy, that the MO for this crime, alleged crime, R.C. Horsh, is that to have power over women and to dominate them and inflict maximum pain is motivated by the wish for prolonged. sexual excitement. And then you think of momentos are the ashes in the urn? Are those momentos? All those photographs, the writing, the images, those are mementos. But what we might find in that house are locks of hair, fingernails, necklaces, photos that the victims had, books, purses, driver's license, lipsticks, anything, because again, R.C. Horses.

bragged on a 2013 podcast about being like a serial killer. So this persona appealed to him. He inhabited it. He lived it. Just like the BTK killer who then dresses in a victim's clothing, we also see there the oscillation between being the inflictor of pain and the one who has pain inflicted on them. In other words, they could be a sedent. and a masochist. So a BTK killer tortures his victims, then takes on the clothing, then imagines he's being tortured because he gets sexual excitement both ways. So it's really perverse. It's really profound. It's complicated. But yes, we will find momentos. The reality is that over $280,000 worth of a marijuana grow operation was found in the home. So reality is, he's charged on that. We are waiting to see what else unfolds. If you know or think you know anything about this case

or are aware of missing people within this region, please dial 215-686-8477. Now, we remember an American hero, Sergeant John Williams, Coralville, PD, Iowa, passed away in the line of duty, leaving behind a wife turned widow Kim and children, Brandon, Benjamin, Sarah, Rebecca. All sentenced to life without dad. American hero, Sergeant John Williams. Thank you to our guests for being with us tonight, but especially to you.

Nancy Gray's signing off for tonight, but I'll see you tomorrow night, and until then. Good night, friends. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.