Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - She Never Came Home: The Lonnie Rogers Cold Case and a 44-Year Search for Truth

Episode Date: April 5, 2026

In January 1981, during a severe winter storm, Lonene “Lonnie” Rogers disappeared from her home in rural Pennsylvania, leaving behind her children, her car, and no clear explanation for how she could have survived the conditions. In this episode of Zone 7, Sheryl McCollum speaks with Lonnie’s daughter, Alison Duiker, about the final hours before the disappearance, the instability that followed, and the long search for answers that began when Alison was just five years old. Joined by clinical hypnotherapist Monica Miller, their conversation revisits the timeline of that night and the challenges of examining long-dormant cases when physical evidence is scarce. Highlights: • (0:00) Sheryl McCollum shares Zone 7’s 2026 plans and the upcoming 10-8 Tour • (1:15) January 7,1981: the blizzard night Lonnie Rogers vanished • (2:45) Alison Duiker remembers her mother before the disappearance • (5:15) Writing A Daughter’s Journey and preserving her mother’s story • (10:00) The home environment leading up to Lonnie’s disappearance • (13:00) Neighbors report arguing during the storm and unusual sounds in the duplex • (14:45) The middle-of-the-night trip to the babysitter and unanswered time gaps • (16:45) Growing up in instability after her mother vanished • (19:15) The night Alison was abandoned at a police station • (21:45) A teacher’s phone number and the moment that everything changed • (26:15) Finding safety, stability, and resilience through guardianship • (28:00) Revisiting the case decades later and considering hypnosis as an investigative tool • (31:30) Monica Miller explains memory, trauma, and timeline-based hypnosis • (41:45) Creating a controlled, quiet setting to organize memory without suggestion • (43:45) A key detail: snow wiped from Lonnie’s car • (50:15) Recovered memory and its investigative implications • (54:15) The call Alison never expected: a reported confession and arrest after forty-four years • (58:15) Thanksgiving reflections and plans for a future case update Guest Bios: Alison Duiker is a special education teacher with more than twenty years of experience working with young children. She is the author of "A Daughter’s Journey: A Story of Resilience," a memoir documenting her childhood, her mother Lonnie Rogers’ disappearance, and the lasting impact of unresolved loss. Alison has spent decades advocating for answers in her mother’s case and raising awareness about cold cases. Monica Miller is a Certified Clinical Hypnotherapist based in Atlanta, Georgia, with more than ten years in private practice. She holds a B.A. from the University of Florida and is also a Licensed Massage Therapist and registered yoga teacher, integrating a mind-body approach in her work. Monica works with a wide range of clients, including professional athletes and individuals in high-stress careers, using a collaborative and client-centered method. About the Host Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an active crime scene investigator for a Metro Atlanta Police Department and the director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, which partners with colleges and universities nationwide. With more than four decades of experience, she has worked on thousands of cold cases using her investigative system, The Last 24/361, which integrates evidence, media, and advanced forensic testing. Her work on high-profile cases, including The Boston Strangler, Natalie Holloway, Tupac Shakur and the Moore’s Ford Bridge lynching, led to her Emmy Award for "CSI: Atlanta" and induction into the National Law Enforcement Hall of Fame in 2023. Social Links: • Email: [e-mail] • Twitter: @149zone7 • Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum • Instagram: @officialzone7podcastSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Y'all, the new year is fast approaching, and I am telling you, 2026, we got big plans over here at Zone 7. We are going back to once a week releases. Now, listen, before y'all get upset, Dr. Priya and Josh are going nowhere. What we're going to do is once a month, have them with us, and it's going to be. be incredible. But you also have the opportunity to meet them in person in 2026. That's right. Honey, we are hitting the road. Zone 7 is teaming up with body bags and crime stories, and we're doing

a national tour called the 10-8 tour. We're kicking this thing off in Atlanta, January 23rd, 2026 at the original Zone 7, Manuel's Tavern. Lots of good stuff coming up. See y'all in 2026. It was not just snowing on January 7th, 1981. Y'all, it was a blizzard. That's the night that Lonnie Rogers vanished,

vanished from Hayfield Township, Pennsylvania. Her daughter, Allison Diker, always believed something horrible had to have happened to her. She knew her mama would not have left her and her brother. Even though she was little, she was only five or six. She knew that. She knew that connection. She knew that love that cannot be denied. Allison knew that things were not right.

When she was told her mom left behind her hearing aids, her glasses, her medication, and her car, remember now it's a blizzard. Where is she going without those things? And more importantly, without her children. Y'all, we have waited on this episode. I have wanted to talk to Allison for a long time, but we waited until it was right.

and tonight is right. Y'all, I have the privilege to welcome Allison Diker to Zone 7. Allison, how are you, honey? I'm good. Thank you so much for having me. It's nice to be with you tonight. You know, I'd like to always start by you telling us about your mama. I just got a warm, fuzzy.

She was beautiful, beautiful, blonde, blonde. hair like golden blonde. She was always smiling and just a happy temperament. Like people told me that she would just light up a room. Like people would gravitate for her. And the most interesting thing is all of this would take place and she was deaf. So she could read lips so she could still communicate and contribute to conversations.

Even though it was difficult for her, it didn't make people or other, it was also difficult for others, but it didn't make people shy away from her. I know now, like, if I see someone or hear someone talking Spanish, I don't necessarily feel comfortable approaching them because I don't speak Spanish.

But that was not the case for her. Even though she's, you know, signed, people did not shy away from her. And what I hear from, you know, when people tell me that they knew my mother, it's always that she was the shining, you know, ray of sunshine and that she loved music and she loved people and she loved dancing. And you would, I'm sure, be surprised to hear dancing. But, you know, they say that when you lose one sense, other senses are heightened, that she could feel the vibration of the music and truly feel the music like none other. And my grandfather, her father, was a dance instructor. And my mother was

his partner. When he did lessons, he brought my mother along and she would help teach the lessons with my grandfather. That is remarkable. So she literally just had a light inside of her. And I'll be honest with you, I think it shows through the photographs. I believe that. I believe that too. Like when I look, you know, I wrote a book, as you know, and the cover is a picture of my mother holding, like it's just a front of face shot, and she's got her hands clasped together under her chin. And it looks like she's looking into your soul. Yes. Yes. But she does. She looks so beautiful. She always looks happy in the photographs. She always looks super put together. Yep. So tell us.

When did you decide to write the book, a daughter's journey, a story of resilience? When did you decide to do that? So it was something that I had always kind of thought about in the back of my head. I always, like in high school, I liked to journal. I wrote poems, did different journaling activities. And I always thought, like in the back of my head, it might be kind of neat to write a book about this story and about, you know, my journey, but I, you know, I just life gets in the way and you're busy and, you know, I went to college and got married. I had a private message from a woman who said her name is Suzanne Reed.

And she wrote the book, Anonymous Tip. She, before she wrote that book, she reached out to me and said that she was writing a book about several missing person stories in Pennsylvania. And did I, would I grant her permission to include my mother's story in the book? And oddly enough, I felt two different ways. One, I felt pride in absolutely, please tell my mother's story. But the other part of me was kind of like, no, that's my job. I had this, like, this surprising reaction to, well, you can tell a little bit of the story, you know, just an excerpt in your book.

Because in the back of my mind, I had this, like, feeling that I'm the one that's supposed to tell her story. And so shortly after her book was published, I wanted to start writing. But I have three very active children that I'm proud of, all their sports and different things. But it's hard to find time. I'm also a teacher full time. So I'm a special ed teacher. So there's a lot of extra paperwork and things that have to happen. And I just never could find the time to sit and do it.

And then COVID hit. So COVID year was the year I wrote the book because we were home and everything was canceled. And if they were allowed to go somewhere, we weren't allowed to go in. I had to wait in the car and only the, you know, my child could go in. And so there was a lot of wait time that happened in COVID. And oddly enough, that was also the 40th anniversary of her disappearance. So I made a commitment to myself and to my mother that in that year, in that 40th year of her disappearance, I was going to write this book.

And I had no idea. I never wrote anything like that before. And I had no idea how long it would take. But I was determined that I was going to do everything I could to try. to, you know, at least get a good chunk of this book done. I wanted it to be released on January 7th, which was the day of her disappearance. And I ended up releasing it in February. So I only missed the target by a little bit, but I got it out.

And I sure did. I'm very proud of it. And you know, when you talk in the book about only being five and her tucking you in, I mean, just you're right there as a mama. Like, you know that routine almost. Like, that's the time. The nighttime routine was, I think, one of the most important for me

because it was quiet. It was just us. I could, you know, hear all about their day and everything they were excited about for tomorrow. And I always told my children, I would kiss them goodnight twice. So they had an extra one, you know. So if I ever got caught,

called out to a scene or I wasn't there for some reason one day. They had one, you know, a spare. So even the way you started the book, you had me. And then you went into the thickness of this cold case file and you go into this journey that you, it is a journey of resilience. That is properly named. But I tell you, y'all, you need to get the book. You need to hear what Allison went through because we ain't going to be able to cover everything tonight and you need to know every bit of it. So here's the thing. You knew who your dad was. You know what happened to you around 14. Tell everybody what happened after your mom went missing. Yes. So the night that she disappeared, my parents had been in an argument. You know, they were separated. He actually came back to the,

to the apartment to live, not to live, but to stay over the holiday. She felt really guilty about him not being around the kids for the holiday. And, you know, the weather in that area is so horrendous. You know, it's in the winter, it is like the tundra, I say. And, you know, for him to travel from his parents would have been a good half-hour drive. And there was a big storm coming in just as would be the norm during that season. So she told him that we're not getting back together. But for the sake of the children, if you would like to come for the holidays, you can come and stay.

But after the holidays, you have to leave. And he came. The holidays took place. And he refused to leave. He said, these are my kids. This is my home. I'm not leaving. they continued to argue day after day.

And on the night of January 6th, she just had had enough. And not the night, but the day. She had had enough and knew he wasn't going to leave. And they were arguing. Things were not good. So she realized that it was going to have to be her that left. And she had already talked to my aunt, her sister, about, you know, we should raise the kids together.

I should, you know, go. It was a four-hour drive to where my Aunt Glennie was living at the time. And she, they just decided over Thanksgiving that they should get together and my mom should move there with the kids and they would raise the kids together. So she went to my grandfather that day. So this is January 6th. She went to my grandfather's house and said, he won't leave. And, you know, I need gas money.

I need, you know, money to leave him. so to speak. And my grandfather said, we'll help you with whatever you need. He said, all I have right now is $320 bills. And he, there's $60 and he handed her $320 bills. She, you know, of course, thanked him at the time in 1981. That was probably a good chunk of change. You know, that probably went pretty far then. But she went home. They, you know, had dinner together. arguing happened. And a lot of this, I know, because we lived in a duplex and we were the upstairs family and there was a family underneath us. And that family reported to the police that there was a lot of yelling and banging and, you know, unusual sounds. And both of your parents were hearing

impaired. Yes, they were. So when they argued, you could tell it. Oh, for sure. For sure. And a lot of that is like when they're arguing, they're like, for someone who is deaf to get each other's attention, they, you know, bang on the floor and the vibration is felt and then, you know, they turn around to find out, you know, what is needed. But if you're arguing, you're not just like tap in the floor. You're probably, you know, stomping because you're angry in addition to trying to get the person's attention. So there was a lot of noise because of the arguing. They also don't realize, like, how loud they're being and, you know, they're, they're yelling at each other, but it's, it's probably not words you hear. It's probably more like guttural sounds, like yelling in grunts

almost because their vocabulary or their words were not perfect, you know, in their communication. But anyway, so that night, she put the kids to bed on the back cover of my book. I, it's one of those that catches you, you know, right in the gut. I talk about her tucking me in for the very last time. And I had no idea, but she tucked me in and talked to my brother. And they, you know, continued to argue. I heard them arguing. And sometime in the night, my father claims that she left with another man and or she left

for another man and he had no idea where she was. He woke us up at three o'clock in the morning, us meeting my brother and I, who I was five and my brother was three, he woke us up and said, I have to take you to the babysitter. Your mother left us for a man. And, you know, I just, I helped get Aaron ready and off to the babysitter we went. That was three in the morning. He reported to work at six in the morning. Actually, it was 606. He was six minutes late. And this was, I know that sounds ridiculous because I'm late all the time for work, but, you know, by minutes, but he was never, ever, ever, ever late. He was, if anything, he was early. So that was uncharacteristic of him. So it was odd. He worked at a foundry where they like melted metal to make screws and nuts and bolts.

and things like that. So if he drove her somewhere, you're talking about an hour and a half, somewhere an hour and a half back to be at work on time. There were three hours, you know, unaccounted for. He claims that he was, the farthest he could drive is an hour and a half.

Oh, yes, right. Okay, got you. Yeah. And it was a blizzard that night. And it was a blizzard. I mean, he couldn't get an hour and a half away. Mm-hmm. Could he have disposed of her at his work?

So that was a theory. but from what I was told from the police, that wasn't possible. Because like if you think of like a deep friar, you know, that's, that's, you know, molten oil. If you put water in there, it would like blow up, you know, with back back. Okay. And the way it was explained to me is that it's not possible because a human body is made of so much water that it would have shut the whole machine down. Okay. So let's fast forward a little bit. What happened when you were 14?

So my mother was just disappeared, didn't know where she was. But my brother and I were left to live with him. And we would go back and forth. You know, he would decide to be a father and then decide he doesn't want to be a father. He would drop us off at his sisters, my aunts to stay. We would, my brother and I would like go to neighbor's houses to, you know, houses. He could care less if we spent the night somewhere else. He was gone a lot, would stay with baby, or I'm sorry, would stay with his girlfriends and things like that. Back and forth, back and forth. There were several times that children's services took us away because of abuse and neglect. Then we'd always be returned to him because he somehow was rehabilitated and worthy of raising children again. And it just, the cycle just, the cycle just

kept going and going and going until I was 14. And at 14, what happened was, it was the day of my brother's birthday, poor thing, probably the worst day of his life. So the day of my brother's birthday, we, my father drove a pickup truck. And at that time, there was no such thing as a quad cab. It was a single cab with a, like a truck bed, but no. cover. You know, there was, it didn't have an enclosure, so to speak. It was just an open truck bed. And he invited his girlfriend to come out, to go out to dinner to celebrate my brother's birthday. So the girlfriend gets in the truck. My father gets in the truck. My brother gets in the truck. And he tells me to get in the in the back of the truck in the truck bed. You know, I'm upset.

It's cold. It's sleeting rain. It's freezing cold. And it's a. good 25 minute drive into Erie where we were headed for dinner. So as we're driving and tears are freezing to my cheeks, I'm banging on the back of the window of the truck, you know, because I'm freezing and I am wanting warmth. He drives all the way to Erie, ignoring me, crying and banging on the windows, pulls into Erie Police Station. And I thought, well, this is interesting because the last place I would think he'd want to go as a police station because he was, you know, in trouble many times in his past. The last place he wanted to be was anywhere near police. So that was odd. But he got out and went into the police station, comes back out.

Again, I thought was odd because he was deaf. And most of the time I was his interpreter. So it was weird that he would have gone in on his own. But sure enough, he comes back out and he kind of finger motions me to come with him. So I get out of the truck. I go in with him. And a police officer is standing like right in the doorway. When I come in, he says, can you help explain to me what he's saying? So my father signs to me, tell him you're bad and I don't want you anymore. So I sign it to the police officer. And the police officer had this like, you know, shocked face. Like, please tell him that you, he can't just drop kids here.

Like, this isn't the place to just drop kids. We don't do that here. He has to take you home. We'll get you help, but he can't leave you here. So I then, you know, of course, interpret that back to my father. my father interprets to me to tell him that he's not doing that. He's not taking me home. He doesn't care what happens to me.

So the police officer says to me, well, do you know anyone that you could stay with? And I said, no. I mean, you could call my aunt his sister. She's the one that they always take us to, you know, when we're taken away. So he calls her. and she says, tell him to figure it out. We're done having him drop off the kids here. He needs to figure it out.

And she wouldn't let me go there. So I didn't know what to tell him. You know, the police officer says anybody else. And I said, no, I'm 14. I don't know where else to go. And just out of anxiety and nervousness, I shoved my hands in my pocket. Like, I don't know. and I felt a piece of paper.

Now, earlier in that day, I was in eighth grade, and earlier in that day, the guidance counselor who was part-time guidance, part-time math teacher, she was my math teacher also, had called me to her office, the guidance office, because she knew if I was, I had gone to that school district three years prior, and she was involved in my case and we were taken away. So she knew if I was back with that. him, it was not good. So she called me into her office to ask me how I was doing, is everything okay?

And at that point, I had for 14, well, for nine years, I had gone from place to place to place. And it didn't matter what I said. So I really wasn't cooperative because I didn't feel like it mattered how I felt. So I didn't really say much to her. You know, I'm fine. I'm fine. And then she sent me back to class. But before she sent me back to class, she wrote her name and phone number on a piece of paper. And she handed it to me and said, if you ever need anything, day, night, I don't care. This is my home phone number. You call me. And I thought, oh, okay, sure.

My teacher wants me to call her. And I shoved in my pocket. Right. You know, my guidance counselor slash math teacher. well, that night was the night that all of this happened at the police station. What a miracle. Can you believe it? No.

And I've heard the story before, but every time you've told me that, even when I read it, but you told me the first time we ever talked, I still get chills thinking, what a... Who does that? Yeah. Who does that? And then the timing of it. Yep. Yep.

I'm sorry. Go ahead. The exact day. The exact day. It's insane. That you were going to need somebody more than ever. Right? Well, you know, that was divine intervention.

I don't know how else. No, that's a hand-to-god moment. Absolutely. Absolutely. So I feel the paper and I say I'm kind of, you know, being smart, you know, and I said to the police officer here. So here's my teacher's phone number. She told me today that if I needed anything, day or night, I should call her.

I guess now is a good a time as any. So he's kind of looking at me. Right. And he's kind of looking at me like, you've got to be kidding me. Like this is her. But he did. He called her. And, you know, I didn't really know what I expected.

but it was kind of like buy in time. Like I don't know what else to say. So he called her and he comes back out and I'm thinking, oh, great, this ought to be good. You know, expecting, you know, more disappointment and I don't know what. And he said, she's on her way. Oh, isn't that insane. So she came and got me. She came and got me.

I stayed with them for a period of time. We went to, they got legal custody of me. And then after some time, a few months or so, the social worker that was involved with the case had said to the family that if they wanted, that's when they got legal custody. You know, that they could get legal custody if they wanted. So her name was Judy Dinsmore and his name was William Dinsmore, Bill and Judy, very well known in their area. They approached me and said, would you like to make this, you know, for forever, you know, would you like to be part of our family?

And I was like, absolutely. Like I the idea that I had a roof over my head that I wouldn't be moving again and again. The fact that I would have food, that I would have meals, you know, I didn't have to go to a laundry mat. They actually had a washer and dryer in their house. I would have my own bedroom. What? You know, they're just, it was so crazy. But of course, I was so very grateful.

And that they, they sought, we went to court and all those things and they got custody of me. And I stayed with them for the next four years. So all of my high school years was in their care. And during those four years, you know, I really believe that a lot of who I've been able to become and the resilience that was within me was nurtured by them. because had I not been given a different message in those four years before I went off to college, I don't know where I would be. I mean, they didn't tell me I was garbage. They didn't tell me that they didn't want me or that I was worthless or anything. They told me the exact opposite and said, you're going to be somebody. You know, we put this work into you because you are worth it

and you are going to go out and become somebody. And you're not. not just a teacher. You're a special education teacher. Yes. You yourself gravitate to those kids that other people find difficult. Other people don't want to necessarily put the time in. It's a lot of work, but it's a lot of love and you get it back. Well, and I feel like I was destined. I mean, again, a lot of who I am is because of the teachers who took an interest in me along the way. and I absolutely had to pay that forward. I'm honored to pay that forward and love on my students the way I was loved on. You reached out to me years ago and said, hey, you know, I know about the Cold Case Institute,

you think you can help me, and you told me the story, just like you've done tonight. And I said, well, let me look into it. I'm not sure what I can do. You and I both were super upfront and honest with each other. We both believed we knew who did it, but I wasn't sure what I could do because we didn't have a body. There was a lot of evidence we didn't have, a lot of things we didn't know. So I thought, well, let me think about it.

And something came to me because every time I talked to you, you would say things like, I think, I can't really remember this, maybe that, I don't know. You would say those types of things to me. So I thought, you know what? I'm just going to throw this at her and let's see what she says. And I said, hey, you know, Allison, I've got a crazy thought. And I just want to see if you're open to it. And you were like, what girl, what do you got?

I'm up for anything. And I said, well, I think hypnosis might help you. Maybe some of your stuff, you have, you know, suppressed it and hidden it to save yourself. And, honey, you were like, I'm going to jump on a plane. I'm coming to Atlanta. Let's do this thing. but this is where it gets another hand-of-god moment. I didn't know a hypnotist, but I thought, well, nothing ventured, right?

So I called this woman, Monica Miller. I had never met her. She had no idea who I was, no idea who Allison was, and I thought if I can keep talking, maybe I can convince her. Well, I didn't have to keep talking. She was lovely, and she was like, if there's somebody that needs my help, I'm going to help them. Can you get her to Atlanta? I said, girl, she's on a plane.

She's already coming. And, you know, what struck me about Monica was this woman went to the University of Florida. She worked in finance. But then she decided, you know what, I need to help people. I need to help people on a different level. And she changed the course of her career. And so not only did I reach out to her and get a yes, which was crazy, she didn't charge anybody.

She didn't want any money. She didn't even want no credit. And I thought this is an incredible person. And this is who Allison needs. So I pick her up from the airport. We go straight to Monica's office. y'all the first thing this woman does if any of y'all have ever had like a really good expensive professional massage you know how you walk in and the lighten is perfect and they've got some you know fabulous candles going

and some fantastic scent you know what i'm talking about like you know you're in the right place that's how her room felt but she not only invited alison in she invited me so i could see it. So I could understand. This is for comfort. She is safe here. This is a place she can relax. And if she's got any memories, honey, they're going to come about. So Allison and I thought it would be great tonight if y'all could straight hear from Monica Miller. So it is a absolute honor for me to welcome Monica Miller to Zone 7. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Are you kidding? I mean, Monica, I witnessed something that to this day when I tell the story

knocks people out. Because y'all, here's another cool thing about Monica. I was in the waiting room. And I thought, well, I say waiting room, lobby, whatever it was. I felt like this person that I care about is gone in there for some type of procedure. And I'm waiting to see whether or not it's going to work. Well, you know, I don't know if it's going to be 40 minutes or two hours or five hours. I have no idea.

Well, Monica was so fantastic. She texted me the whole time. And Monica, I got to tell you, I thought that was super thoughtful of you too, not to leave me hanging and not like, well, I don't know if she's remembering something horrible and needs some type of comfort. Is she going to hold her hand or is it not working and she's going to be super disappointed? Like, I needed some type of heads up, but you were just fantastic. Oh, well, I'm glad that was helpful. You know, the sessions, the way I work with people can be so deep. It's really hard to put a clock on it or a timer. So if there's a family member or, you know, sometimes it's a younger person or a concerned relative, I'll say, okay, it's going to be like around three hours. But then if it moves, if the needle moves longer or shorter, I try to let everyone know because it is really a waiting game where you're like, are they okay? she kidnapped them? Right, right.

And remember, I think with Allison, it went, it went closer to almost four hours with her. It did. It sure did. That's what I was going to say. And it was just a comfort to me, you know. And here's the way I've described this. And Monica, you jump in and correct me, but this is the way I kind of saw it. All of us have memories.

And you may have a memory from fourth grade or twelfth grade. You'll never remember it, but then a song will come on. or you'll smell something or you'll see something. And you're like, oh, I remember that. Like it takes you right back. So everybody sub-level has got memories that if the right thing comes about, you're going to remember it immediately. Is that accurate?

What a perfect description of how hypnosis can work. Because you get into that timeline or that space or even the feeling. You know, it can be a feeling. Oftentimes people are coming to me. for something different, like an emotional struggle. You trace the feeling and the body back to what started it. And that's what, you know, we were doing that day with Allison. It's like, let's trace you back to this moment in time and then open that up and expand it.

You know, but trauma, I mean, whether it's sexual assault, child abuse, your mother being murdered, whatever it is, you're going to have memories that maybe you don't even allow your yourself. I'm not going there. I'm not going to think about it. If I start to think about it, I'm going to do something different. I'm going to sing a song. I'm going to go for a jog. I'm going to pet a dog. I'm going to do something. So I don't have to remember it. But it is there. And you've got her in a quiet, beautiful space with perfect, just lights and sounds. I mean, I thought it was, if it was ever going to work, it was going to work with you. That's all I can tell you. I'm glad I'm glad you both had that that trust in me you know for me if I'm you know I get it from my

grandfather I don't say yes to something if I'm not going to do it to the absolute best of my ability I don't I don't you know go halfway into things so if I say I'm going to help I'm going to do everything I can that's within my abilities to help well you did and I think that you know, you've got other expertise, like with yoga and whatnot. And I think when people are super in tune to mind, body, and spirit, it can show. And I think, again, I don't know how to really say what this experience was for me, other than to say, I knew instantly watching the two of y'all that it was going to work. I knew it. So, Allison, why don't you tell everybody what happened? What came from it?

Well, I want to say, you know, I was super nervous to do this. But with this case, I was willing to do anything. Just the way you described it is exactly how I felt. At that point, I had been toying with that idea. Several people had mentioned, maybe you should do hypnotism. But I was too afraid. I was too afraid to take that step because I didn't know what was locked in that head. And I felt like I was five, almost six. I was their ears. The chances of me seeing or hearing something are pretty high. And I wasn't sure if I really did or not. Going there, I was super anxious and nervous because of what was about to take place. But as soon as I got into her room, it was exactly the way you described it. It was, it was calm and peaceful. and quiet. It was serene. It, you know, the lighting was perfect. It just made you feel like

you're walking into a big hug. Absolutely. Absolutely. I didn't feel nervous anymore walking into that office. I, you know, I sat down, you know, and got comfortable and we got right at it. I don't think we made it very long. It wasn't long for my phone. Ding, I had a text from her. And Monica, I got to tell you, I remember even making a joke after you were so gracious to let me come in and kind of see everything and laid out how it was going to operate. I remember joking with you, I don't want to leave. I want to stay in this room and just relax. You're next then.

Because it was just that welcoming and that calming. It was unbelievable. But Monica, why don't you walk through a little bit of how you work? Like just like we know, because we were there, but like what is your process? Well, so for for this particular case, I knew we were going back to a time and date. So, you know, oftentimes when I'm working with someone and say it's, you know, for, you know, confidence or anxiety or panic stuff, which is pretty common on my schedule. We're going with the feeling. Well, with Allison, we had to go to a time and day. So it was really taking a direct timeline back to that night. And a funny thing that happened when you both arrived is y'all surprised me. I, I, had no idea that Allison was a CODA, a child of deaf adults. So I then instantly right there in the lobby, I looked at you, Cheryl, and I was like, information that would have been good to know because, and I joked with you.

And I'm like, you're lucky you showed up to me because because I was like, we are going to have to handle this differently because I knew instantly that Allison telling me, you know, I was about five years old. I'm like, you became their ears and their translator. And I knew that would be how her life was lived up into that point. And I also knew that whatever we went back and found, that it wouldn't be a kid listening through the wall to hear words like, if you don't shut up, I'm going to, but, you know, she's not going to have that.

So I knew that the information that we would get would come differently because she saw the world and heard it differently than her parents. Oh, that's a great point. That's a great point. Yeah, so that really had to be taken into consideration. And I knew Allison was nervous. So part of my process is, you know, really know the whole story as much as I can for the event or the feeling or the issue we're trying to resolve.

know everything around it and all the key players. So in this, the key players is Allison, her brother, her mom, her dad, because this is the night of. And on top of that, I know that generally, if someone hasn't done hypnosis before, they're going to be anxious or nervous. And excitement also can feel the same as anxiety or nervousness. So there could be a part that they're excited about, but also because it's unknown, it comes off as anxiety or nervousness, is to say to someone, online I use often, and I used it with Allison, I'm like the worst thing you've ever been through in your whole entire life up until this moment, right here and right now, you've been through it, and here you are, you've made it.

So we know there's nowhere to go but up, and there's nothing to do but find out more information than perhaps you're aware that you know. And the mind is like a black box. It'll lock things in. And if it's part of a traumatic event, it might push that away because it's to protect you. And so our deal that day was let's do everything to find a place of safety and comfort of interest and curiosity to pull out data that might have been sort of stuffed away in the subconscious mind. Let's see if we can work together to pick this lock. And so that's often how I work with that kind of stuff in mind.

And Allison, it did a really cool thing. She brought the book in. Do you remember that, Allison? You brought the book in? My book? Yeah, you brought it in. You showed it to me. Oh, I forgot that.

Yeah. It's a really important part because you went to put it away. I said, no, no, no, no. Don't put it away. I sat it on the console. I left it sitting, you know, upright and open. And your book was staring at us the whole time. Oh, my gosh.

And the cover of that book is my mother's face. And it looks like she's looking at you. you. Yes. And the cover of that book told more of the story that you had somehow within you known because it's what led you to pick that picture. And we talked about that in the end, which was really cool. Oh, you're doing with that now. Yeah, we had the book standing up there as a part of the process. Like, let her in on this. Let her be here. Oh. I mean, she's why you got that note in your pocket. That's right. Amen. Amen. She's how you got that note in your pocket. You know, when people leave us There's the, you know, energy can't be created or destroyed.

They just go into a different form often. Not the like spookyuki ghost thing, but they go into a different form. And in her own way, she's still around. And, you know, she placed something into the heart and the mind of your teacher that day. And that's how on that day you got the note. And so things like that are the reason why I'm like, let her like, let her be a part of this. Let her hang out. Let's see what happens.

You want to know something crazy? Well, of course I do. I have the book sitting right here next to me in case I have to reference it. And she's looking at me right now while we're having it. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Yeah.

It happens. It happens. Absolutely. And you know, it's one of those things. And Monica, I'm sure you know this, but Allison, I don't know if you do. But the FBI actually trains their folks if they're stuck on a case or they can't get past some type of point in an investigation. to literally sit still in a quiet place. They even encourage people, go sit in your closet.

Like no windows, no distractions, get still and get quiet, and you may have an epiphany. So on every level, this works. I mean, it just does if you allow it to work and you're with somebody that can help you like Monica did because again, it wasn't long before I got that first text message. And then it wasn't long before my phone was ding, ding, ding.

So things were happening and she was keeping me updated. But do you want to tell some folks about the snow on the car? I want to say I was a little skeptical going into this too. Like I totally wanted it to work and was willing to do the work and whatever needed to be done. but I wasn't sure what I thought or believed about hypnosis. Like, I don't know, you know, kind of sounds hokey, but hopefully it works. So I was open to it, but wasn't convinced that I would have results. So it was a very pleasant surprise.

I would say that I felt like I was just relaxing. You know, I was just, I think you even said that, Monica. you were like, just relax, you know, and let and whatever. And to kind of fast forward to what you were just mentioning the snow, I often felt like, or I often had memories of random things like we all do. And I wasn't really sure where it fit in my life, you know, in the timeline. I didn't know where things fit. And I guess like when I have talked about this process and this experience, I have said that it's not like, oh my gosh, this thing came out of nowhere.

And I remembered something. And maybe it is for other people. It just that wasn't it for me. I felt like you walked me step by step by step, you know, holding my hand all the way through it and said, then what happened? Then what happened? So I I felt like the memories that I had were put in time order. And when I was done, I was like, oh my gosh, I didn't realize that's where that memory fit. And when we were going through the process, I had remembered like my mother had this cool, you know, blue Mustang and it was like a sports car. And in the winter, she didn't really drive it that much for obvious reasons. And And I remembered there was snow on the back of the back of her car. And I just didn't realize that it was that night that that memory came through. And the only way I was able to like time order that was because you took me step by step.

And, you know, I remember saying, you know, like he brought us down the stairs. It was, you know, he was holding Aaron, you know, in his arms, holding my hand, taking us down the stairs. and that I looked at the, at her car before we got into his car, his Bronco. And I noticed that there was snow off the back of the car, like the trunk, so to speak. And I, I remembered that because it was snowing like crazy. And I could tell how much snow had fallen because there was like a ledge. Like when you wipe off a ton of snow. there's like, you know, a ledge of snow.

So you could see how much has fallen. And I didn't realize that that memory I had had before was that night. So in that moment, you know, it's snowing like crazy. He's putting us in the car and I look over and notice that the trunk of her car, snow had been wiped off of it. Huge, huge, huge, huge. Right. And, you know, by going through.

a timeline like that, the really cool thing is, is you're sort of looking around. And in that moment, in the truth of that moment, yes, you're only five years old. But once again, mom and dad had a huge fight. And it was

big and it was loud for you. And, you know, you were listening because at one point you said, you know, dad came down the hallway and it was like made you get in bed. You know, he kind of saw you peeking. And, you might only be five, but by the age of five, you're walking, you're talking, you're looking

around, you're seeing the world, you're hearing the world, you're aware, and you were suspicious. You were like, what has gone on here? You were suspicious. And you were taking in because again, you're their ears. So you, as a five-year-old, are having to listen to big conversations and basically translate back to them and talk to the other people. You're being forced to pay more attention to the world around you in a kind of adult way than most other kids would be. Yes. And so I used that. I was like, heck yeah, we're going to use it because her observancy is going to be more than just like, you know, a little kid who's never seen trauma who doesn't have to

think about like, let me help mom and dad explain to the grocery store guy, what they need. It's very different. So I was like, we're going to use this. It's a tool. And the cool thing about going through the night piece by piece is you were right back in it as that child. But also it's the grown-up you, the grown-up Allison was there. I'm using prompts, okay, and then what happens next? What do you see? What do you hear? And the grown-up you is almost right there holding hands with the little one and saying,

okay. So, you know, this is how it can be, even if it's, you know, like, Cheryl, you'd mention if it's, you know, something traumatic or terrible, you're almost once removed. I always say there's a big difference about being like someone who's in a war or sitting in the front row of a movie theater watching a movie about war. You are once removed. And those things go hand in hand, which is why I explained to Allison straight ahead that minute, you know, she, you know, put her butt in my chair. I said, worst thing that's ever happened to you in a whole entire life has already happened and you've made it through. So now that's...

let's see what we can get from it if it's even useful. Well, when you sit in me that text, as an investigator, I'm like he transported her in her own car. So that tells me he took his car to take the children to the babysitter, but then used her car to dispose of her. Or that's where he put her temporarily. Either way, but in my mind, that's where I went immediately. And I'm like, of course he did. That's why if anybody goes, oh, well, she left. I saw her driving down Main Street at whatever time.

So, you know, I just appreciate everything that you did, Monica, because, you know, I knew that he was my number one. I know that he was Allison's number one suspect. But her memories, and then the next text that I got that was pretty chilling, was that she knew there were all these loud sounds. There were loud sounds. and they suddenly stopped. So she knew.

She even knew in the timeline when her mom was killed in that house. She knew. And like I said, because she was a highly observant child because of necessity, when she and her brother were being marched out of that house

by their dad in the middle of the night, she was looking around. And Allison, when you looked around the house, and you observed everything, what observance of absolute mayhem did you see? Nothing. You were like, it looks, everything's fine.

You didn't see, you didn't see a mess, you didn't see blood, you didn't see things not. It seemed eerily, quiet and perfect. And that can tell a story of how he committed this act. You rookie detectives, if you were working with somebody, who is a CODA, as Monica says, child of deaf adults, be sure to tell everybody on your team. Because I don't think that would have dawned on me to tell you. I guess I thought it would come out if necessary, but I just learned something good tonight.

So I appreciate you again, Monica, still training. and Allison, I'll tell you, I do think you were brave. Fear did not stop you. You and I, you know, both joke that neither one of us had ever used hypnosis. I've had plenty of victims that had suppressed memories and worked with counselors. And I learned all about disassociation and whatnot, but I had never used hypnosis. And I tried to use it myself once in 1974, but I failed. I got my dad's pocket watch and went back and forth in front of him so that he would buy me a mini bike, but it failed.

It was a worthy effort. It was a worthy effort, but he was not like Allison. He was not open to it. So he wouldn't get with the program. But again, Monica, you know, your generosity and your expertise. is so appreciated. I mean, I will be forever grateful for what you did for Allison in this case. And Allison, your bravery, your willingness to get on a plane

and trust somebody you had never dealt with, really. You didn't know me much better than you knew Monica. And I just know that your mama is so impressed and just probably a little knocked out by everything that you have accomplished. But before we in this, Allison, tell everybody about the phone call. I have worked and worked and worked. I've networked. I've done podcasts and interviews and everything I can think of.

I've gone to conferences and crime different things, wrote a book, you know, everything I could think of. And I was always, you know, just battling with what we're I do next. And here I am like, well, you know, I'm packing for an Irish dance competition that I was taking my daughter to the next day in Milwaukee. And my phone rings. And it is the state police. And I thought, what in the world at 8.30 at night, the night before a holiday, no less. You know, it's the night before Thanksgiving. My phone rings and it says state police on it. And it. And it says, state police on it. And I thought, well, that's weird. So I answer it. And it's the investigator who

was in Pennsylvania working my mother's case. And, you know, I say hello. And I feel like the right descriptor is the Charlie Brown teacher because, you know, he says this is Trooper Geibel. And I, and I'm thinking, okay. And he said, we. interviewed Bud today. And I said, oh, okay. And I'm thinking he's going to tell me something, obviously, or he wouldn't be calling me the night before that's useful or beneficial or it's got to be good news because why would he call me now? But never did I imagine the words that came out of his mouth. I don't think in my entire life I have actually fathomed what those words would sound like. And he said to me, brace yourself. Allison, we interviewed Bud today. And he confessed.

Mike drop. What? I don't think I heard that right. What? What? And, you know, he couldn't get into the details or specifics, but he said he wanted me to know that he was at that moment that he was calling me, he had been arrested, was in police custody, and that night was being arraigned for homicide and aggravated assault. Absolutely miracle. Like, people in my situation don't hear those words. Like, people don't hold on to that, that crime for 44 years and wake up one day and decide to tell the truth. It's unhurst. of. Correct. But just like everything else in this case, it's unheard of. So that to me was a fit and ending. And I could not wait to reach out to Monica because she deserved quickly before Thanksgiving to know what happened to. And it was a great thing to be able to, you know,

communicate with both of y'all. And what a Thanksgiving. Oh, my God. Less than you. And that explained I mean, I was like, Cheryl's reaching out to me on Thanksgiving Day. What in the world? And now I know why. I didn't know it was the night before. My goodness. Wow. It was one of the best Thanksgiving.

And, you know, all of your post and the way people were supporting you. And, you know, even all these years, Allison, the way you have moved, the way you have operated, the way you have stayed true has been something to watch too. So I just appreciate you both. I am grateful. That's all my mama in me. I hear you. I believe it.

100%. Lonnie deserves the credit. There's no doubt. But I do want both you to know, we will do another one. We will have an update when we can and when Allison can share everything after the court process. So just wait. There will be a part two. And I'm going to tell you right now, y'all ain't going to be ready for that.

So you won't believe it. We will go and we will continue. continue to celebrate Thanksgiving. But Monica Miller, thank you. Allison Dyker, thank you. And congratulations, honey. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much.

Congratulations, Allison. Thank you. And thank you for all of your hard work and all of this. Oh, you're welcome. And I'm, you know, I'm interested to see what other details come out because we had some heavy guesses, but I guess maybe we'll possibly. know. Y'all, I'm going to end zone seven the way that I always do with a quote.

Allow yourself to see what you don't allow yourself to see. Milton Erickson. I'm Cheryl McCallum, and this is Zone 7.