Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - She sends 65,000 texts & sneaks into his bathtub after just one date! Claims 'Love is for Infinity'

Episode Date: May 15, 2018

Jacqueline Ades, who is in jail on charges of stalking an Arizona man, says she thought she found her soulmate after one date. Ades sent 65,000 text messages to the man and told him she wanted to bathe in his blood. Nancy Grace discusses the case with psychologist Lauren Howard, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan, and RadarOnline.com reporter Alexis Tereszcuk. Animal expert Dr. Grey Stafford and private investigator Vincent Hill join Nancy to look at the case of a baby killed by dogs. The grandmom says she briefly left the child alone with family dogs when it happened. A California man on trial for beating his mom to death blames a Benedryl overdose for triggering his fatal rampage. Drug addiction expert Dr. William Morrone explains how the medicine can cause dangerous delusions.  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Have you ever just had a bad date? And you know instinctively, this is not going to work out. There's just something wrong. Don't know what it is. They're pleasant enough, but it's just not the right one. You just know. Well, what if that person turns out to be the freakiest stalker you've ever met that wants to quote, bathe in your blood. Think about it. Bathe in your blood. And as you you're watching happen to be watching your home surveillance one day from

work you notice somebody's in your bathtub okay problem i'm nancy grace this is crime stories thank you for being with us that is exactly what happened an a Arizona woman. It's really attractive. A 31-year-old Arizona woman, Jacqueline Aides, allegedly sends 65,000 text messages to a guy she dates one time straight out to investigative reporter with RadarOnline.com our colleague Alexis Tereschuk. Alexis I once dated a guy that wanted to pick out my clothes and would suggest that I wear this necklace or that necklace and he could cook better than me he could do everything artsy better than me could set could cook better than me. He could do everything artsy better than me. He could set a table better than me. Long story short, I thought it was a little weird. Somebody wanted to pick out my clothes. Okay. Even that much bothered me. I cannot even imagine 65,000

texts. What happened, Alexis? Please tell me this person is in jail. Yes. Police finally arrested this crazy lady. I use the word crazy quote because she actually says I'm crazy. Here's the thing. She meets this man. He doesn't even want us to know his name. Unidentified man. They go on one date. They met online.

Do you blame him? No. Do you blame him? No. How did they meet? You have zoomed forward to the? No. How did they meet? You have zoomed forward to the first date. How did they meet? They met on a dating app.

Okay. Tinder, Bumble. You know, you just swipe left, swipe right. Cute. Let's meet up. You send each other a couple text messages is the thing you do after you meet on the site. So they met up. They had one date. He was not interested.

Didn't want to go out with her ever again. Fine. They move on. All of a sudden she starts showing that she sends actually a couple of text messages. Again, nothing outside of the norm. You know, I thought I liked you. What's going on? No, she shows up at his house and he gets really scared. He calls the police and says this lady that i went on one date with shows up outside my house the police come right away she leaves and that is when the harassment starts she starts sending him up to 500 text messages a day 500 so she goes off her rocker allegedly wait a minute do we know what the text messages say i'm a little interested in that okay so 500 text messages a day this is not just for a week or anything this goes on for six months six months okay guys let's hear it from the horse's mouth. Take and listen to Jacqueline Aides.

We met up online. I was looking for my healing angel. The psychic I met told me I would meet a healing angel. I felt like I met my soulmate and everything was just the way it was. And I thought we would just do what everybody else did. And we would just like get married and everything would be fine. But that's not what happened. And you don't stop giving.

Even if you don't receive, you all of a sudden receive a lot. Okay. Wait a minute. Alexis Tereszczuk, RadarOnline.com. You didn't tell me anything about a psychic and you didn't tell me anything about a healing angel. Hello? Yep. So that's what she said. You know, sometimes people have a first date and they do fall in love and they get married. That is rare. I don't know anybody where that has happened. But so she goes insane. She loves this guy. And you know, this is in Arizona. This really, really I thought of Jodi Arias, too, who also gave a lot of freaky jailhouse interviews. Joining me right now, and boy, do we need a shrink, renowned psychologist out of New York, Lauren Howard. Lauren, why did she think that they would just get married, quote, like everybody else does after their first date? You know, the hardest thing to do with people that a layman might identify as crazy. I mean, you hear the story and, you know, you just think, OK, this girl's not.

But the truth is, you've got it. You've got to understand from her point of view, this is normal. And it's, you know, know thy enemy, know thy quote unquote crazy. You have to understand what's going on in her head. This is a girl who obviously suffers from obsessive compulsive disorder, no question about it. I certainly hope she has an unlimited data plan. Her belief system about what is love is not a tea. She believes that it's a one giving you shall receive whatever, you know, put it out there in the world, treat people the way you want to be treated, and it will come back to you. And those are all good sort of life philosophies. But if you now take them to the level of on this continuum of an obsessive compulsive, this is she's a good person this is normal she knows he doesn't she's found her earth angel so i mean that's what's going on this is not um a crazy person this is an unwell

person another issue out to forensics expert joseph scott morgan you know in those horror movies you think you hear somebody and then you look and they're not there. Well, there were calls all the way back in December where he thought she was skulking around his home. And one of those times, cops didn't find any evidence of her. Another time, they found her skulking around his home on the outside. That's freaky to think she's out there looking in and they also find her sitting in her car there were multiple calls to police from him claiming that she what i can tell because there are calls to that home of a trespasser but they couldn't find her now that gives it a whole nother twist joe scott morgan joe scott morgan joining me forensics expert and professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University. Joe Scott, the thing is, the cops couldn't even find her, but he knew she had been there.

That's scary. Yeah, it is. This guy had gone in and, you know, set up cameras in his own home to surveil this woman or to surveil whatever was going on around his house. I wonder if she had an awareness that she was on tape. You know, she's this psychotic. You know, I'm wondering if she's aware of it, that she's demonstrating to him in some kind of twisted way that she's still in his space.

You know, I was listening just a moment ago to our psychiatrist there, and I was thinking, wow, you know, she's got all of this spare time on her hands to spend all of this time doing this, and how's she staying off the radar of the cops? We're talking 65,000 texts. She's stalking this guy going everywhere. Why can't they track him down? Well, here is another dichotomy. She claims in her interview, which is weird that she's giving interviews anyway, that she would never hurt him. Listen. No.

Oh, my God, no. I love him so much. I just want to love him so much, that's it. And if he doesn't like it, then I'll go home and I'll love my ex-boyfriend. What am I supposed to do? Okay, that's pretty flippant for a woman that has now been booked, arrested, and fingerprinted. But she says she wouldn't hurt him.

That's not exactly what some of her texts say that he showed to the court. He wants to remain anonymous, and do you blame him? Some messages allude that, quote, harm may come to him, end quote. Also, quote, don't ever try to leave me, dot, dot, dot. I'll kill you, dot, dot, dot. I don't want to be a murderer.

She also said she wanted to wear his body parts and bathe in his blood, according to court paperwork. Okay, Alexis Tereschuk, so far I've heard from you, they meet on a dating website, and she bombards him with 65,000 texts. What about the wearing your body parts? Yeah, that's where she just says, oh, I would never hurt him. Pretty much all of the text messages that he read to the court show that she did want to hurt him. You know, she said, you know what I'm thinking about?

I'm thinking about your blood and I'm thinking about how I would like to bathe in it. There's nothing about that that's not violent. She also starts talking about Hitler and she starts talking about how she really admired this man, this Nazi man, and everything about Hitler is murder. So you have to connect the two. She absolutely was threatening this man, this Nazi man, and everything about Hitler is murder. So you have to connect the two. She absolutely was threatening this man's life. Well, take a listen to her, Jacqueline AIDS, in a jailhouse interview. Why did you text him 65,000 times? Because it made me find out all my information. Loving him selflessly brought this information because everybody just wants to take.

But if you just give and you don't stop giving, even if you don't receive, you all of a sudden receive a lot. Did he tell you to stop contacting him? I don't want to talk about that. Did you listen to that? I don't want to talk about that. 65,000 text messages. That's it. To me, it seems like more.

It seems like more than 65,000? To me, yeah. Isn't that kind of excessive? Love is an excessive thing. Can you understand why people think this is a little bit out there? Oh, yeah. Are you a crazy person? No.

Tell us who are you. I'm the person that discovered love. Okay, she never explains or reveals that he asked her to please stop texting him. 65,000 text messages later, breaking into his home, getting into his bathtub, claiming she wants to wear his body parts and bathe in his blood. Multiple calls to police and they couldn't find her when they got there. A butcher knife in her car. It goes on and on and on.

Oops, I left out the part where she impersonates his wife. He doesn't have a wife, number one. But people thought, they don't even know her. They saw her in public and claimed she was acting bizarrely then she told others possibly police that she was the victim's wife what happened there alexis teres chuck so this guy is at work and she showed up somehow i i he hasn't said but he apparently has security at his office because she showed up at his work and said she was his wife and wanted to see him. And they would not let her in.

And he called the police again. So this guy, he's really desperate. This is like so many stories that we hear. It's often, you know, a woman saying, this person is stalking me. This is what he does. He calls the police. He says, she is here again. She has found my office, which is really scary that people, I guess you can find out so much

about people online now, but that she showed up there, parked her car and walked in there. Who knows if this time she could have had a weapon on her. So he calls the police. They come, they take her away again, but she's still free. She is not in jail. He then goes out of the country on a business trip and he has installed in his home remote security so he can look at it from another place. So he's looking on his phone while he's out of the country, looks in his bathroom and she is in his bathroom taking a bath. She has broken into his home and is taking a bath he

frantically calls the police again the police show up at his house they arrest her and this is what they found they found a huge butcher's knife in the front seat of her car so this woman had every intention of committing a violent crime she had a knife with her, a butcher's knife. This isn't, you know, a small Swiss army knife that you might carry on your key chain for protection. A butcher's knife is a huge knife. And she had broken into his house. And a lot of people are saying she was in his home. No, that's not what she was. She broke into his home and took a bath in his bath. What if he had come home to this? Luckily, he had the security he he was protecting himself and the police finally responded and finally put her in jail a woman accused of

stalking tells her story in a jailhouse interview trying to explain why she sent a paradise valley man 65 000 text messages claiming she wanted to wear his body parts and bathe in his blood. You know, Lauren Howard, a New York psychologist, you're saying she has a compulsive disorder. That is not insanity. That is not a defense under the law. When do you understand that what you're doing is wrong, that it would be perceived as crazy? Well, she doesn't. She thinks it's perfectly normal. And you know, Nancy, the whole insanity, I mean, is anyone sane who commits some of the heinous crimes that we see? I mean, obviously,

these kinds of criminals are deeply disturbed. That doesn't mean that they should get away with it or get off because of a claim of insanity. If you will, it gives insanity a bad name because not all insane people are violent. She thinks that what she did was not only fine, but she thinks it was in his best interest. So, you know, should she get off on an insanity plea? I'm certain that someone that that will be her defense, because frankly, it's her only defense. I, as a mental health professional, don't think that that gives her a get out of jail card. I mean, this is a dangerous person. She needs help. She needs help. Okay, let me understand something. Joseph Scott Morgan, you're the forensics expert.

She says things like, I'd wear your fascia in the top of your skull and your hands and feet. I'm just a JD, all right, but isn't that the connective tissue in your body? Yeah, it is. Yeah, it is. It's kind of white tissue that connects the skin. Literally, it's an overlying layer of skin to muscle. Okay. All right.

She goes on to say, oh, what I would do with your blood. I'd want to bathe in it. I'm like the new Hitler. The man was a genius. Then she has a string of anti-Semitic words, which I take very personally. Don't ever try to leave me. I'll kill you. I don't want to be a murderer. Okay, she veers from topic to topic, rambling about Einstein.

She talks about the birth part of Jesus. I didn't really know when he was born. I just assume we just picked December 25th because it's fun time. She talks about his birth chart, the symbolism of the markings on a dollar bill. You know what, Alexis, you have this to look forward to with your little boy. John David and Lucy for about a minute, but John David more so got obsessed for a while about the marks on a dollar bill. And we had to watch National Treasure about 100 times. So this woman is fascinated with the symbolism of the markings on a dollar bill. She rants, rambling about Einstein, the Dead Sea, Christ's birth chart, and the symbolism of the markings on a dollar bill.

Has yours been through that yet, Alexis, with the dollar bill? No, he just likes the space shuttle because we have one here in Los Angeles. He wants to be an astronaut now. Okay, I'm glad you got me off my topic of this woman wanting to bathe in his blood for a minute. But back to her. She then says, OMG, I love him so much. Then she says, he's the meanest person I've ever met.

And he's my soulmate. Okay. It's like, from one moment to the next, I have to share the message of love. Everybody has to love each other. Okay, well, she's been booked into the Fourth Avenue jail charges of threatening, stalking, harassment, and failure to appear.

She's being held without bond. What's the likelihood that she'd repeat offend if she gets out on bond, Lauren Howard? Oh, highly likely. unless she gets help. You know, I haven't witnessed her firsthand. I don't know what her life history is. I don't know what her relationship history is. This didn't just emerge. There is a story here. You know, there's a longitudinal story.

She didn't just become this person after meeting this man. This woman needs help. Should she be in the general population? No. Should she get off by reason of insanity? No. Should she be put in a prison system? I'd be hard-pressed to see that. Okay, then you know what?

You bring her home to your place in Manhattan and let her make you a nice romantic dinner tonight. I want her put away. I want her put away, but I'd like her to be held. Okay. Let's take a listen to Jacqueline Aides as she describes the quote love equation. The point of love is to keep giving it. That's the math equation. It's love equals 3.3, which is infinity times E equals squared, which is light. Light is forever. L equals 3.3 which is infinity times equals squared which is like light is forever l equals l if loft was a number it would be three so it's infinity times light which is also infinity so it's just forward forever forward and if you're selfish you can't understand it if you want to read and hear more about the prosecution of jacqueline aids and the details regarding how

she stalked this guy go to crimeonline.com for the very latest in this and all other crime and justice news. CrimeOnline.com. There's a brand new website causing a lot of trouble for people with something to hide. Have you ever had a bad feeling about somebody? Maybe suspected your partner's cheating? Maybe worried about your online reputation? If you answer yes to any of those questions, you may need Truthfinder. Public records are only recently easily available online.

Before websites like Truthfinder, you'd most likely have to visit a courthouse to get that information. Now it's as simple as entering a name. Truthfinder sifts through millions of public records from all over the country, assembling them into one easy-to-read report. Search the names of somebody you know. You could find criminal and arrest records, bankruptcies, contact information, social, dating profiles, financial assets, and a lot more. Why fork out thousands to a private investigator when you can do the job yourself? Everybody you know has something to hide. Now you can root out the most dangerous people

before you become the next victim. It's not just used to bust bad people. Truthfinder helps Americans reunite with friends, family, even people who served with them in the military. It's never been so easy to find the truth. Go to truthfinder.com slash Nancy and enter any name to get started. I remember the twins at just three months old. I remember I was doing everything I could to keep them alive because Lucy was extremely premature. And every day was a struggle. I handled them like they were gold, taking every possible precaution to keep them alive.

And then I find out about this investigation. A three-month-old baby girl is dead in her own home, mauled dead by a family dog. Straight out to Alexis Tereschuk with RadarOnline.com. Alexis, I can't even take it in. Long long story short you have a little boy as well at three months old there's no way a tiny infant can do anything to protect itself what happened so the baby was being babysat by the grandmother in the home with three dogs a rottottweiler, a Labrador, and a Chihuahua. Two very large dogs, one very small dog. Grandma was babysitting just a tiny three-month-old baby. She says that she got up, she went to get a bottle for the baby because she was taking care of her, and that she came back, and the dogs were mauling on the child.

She immediately called 911. Well, another thing I don't understand, Alexis Tereshchuk with me from RadarOnline.com. Where was the child? Was the child in a bassinet? Was it on the bed? I mean, how did they get to the baby? Was it on the floor? I believe the baby was actually on a sofa. And at three months old, the baby can't roll around. Really, babies can't do it. Well, every baby is

different. My baby was not rolling around at three months on his own. So something, you know, they're tiny, they're swaddled, you wrap them up and they can't really move. So I understand the baby was on a sofa. You know, on the sofa, though, that seems as if the dogs would have easier access. Let me go to our expert, Dr. Gray Stafford. I know from being the director of conservation at the Wildlife World Zoo and Aquarium, but Dr. Stafford, now a professor. Gray, I'm just beside myself with what happened to this three-month-old baby girl. You're absolutely right, Nancy. It's another tragic situation. And it's a terrible reminder that, you know,

even though we have so many millions of dogs in our homes as pets, they're still animals. We still have to protect our kids at all times and never look away, even for the shortest amount of time, especially with a young infant like this. But, Gray, everywhere I turn, when I do a dog mauling story uh and there's so many of them where they kill their owners i know everybody's going to get crazy on this but it's always rottweilers and pitbulls now rottweiler and and a couple of times press the canarios but rottweilers and pitbull owners or lovers get furious with me but i mean you never hear of a

dachshund or really a german shepherd or i don't really recall doberman peentures so much it's always these two now why why is it why is it always these two uh types of dogs well a lot of it has to just go with the physics right these are These are big, large-bodied dog breeds. So are St. Bernard's, Gray. So are St. Bernard's. And we see them running down a snowy hill with hot chocolate around their neck to save people, not ripping the throat out of a three-month-old baby girl. Gray, it's not about the size.

It's something else. Well, also, these are very popular breeds compared to, say, a St. Bernard. So a lot of it has to do just with the sheer numbers of these breeds that are in people's homes. But it goes back to training. It goes back to preparing these animals for change. As you indicated, you know, having a child or two is a huge change for a family much as well as their pets. And we have to make sure that these animals are prepared for the changes that are brought about by a baby. And when animals are not prepared for those changes, they often react in ways that are

not good at all. Well, this is what I don't understand. How could they, the three animals, there's a Rottweiler, a Labrador, and a Terrier. Alexis, Therese, Chuck, RadarOnline.com, correct me if I'm wrong, they haven't attributed it to whichever dog, but with a Rottweiler in the mix, I guarantee you that was the ringleader. How can they turn on a pin, great, and be normal animals, loving pets, and then the grandmother walks out to get a bottle, and they suddenly attack the baby. Well, it may have nothing to do with the baby, but the baby was there and available.

But, you know, babies come with all sorts of sounds and smells and things that are different. Gray, how can you even say it has nothing to do with the baby? They ate the baby. It is all about the baby. What do you mean it has nothing to do with the baby? Well, what I mean is the motivation for their behavior may have had nothing to do with the baby initially, but the baby's there present. It's called displaced aggression, and we see it all the time in animals and in people. I don't know for certain that that was the case, but animals, again, it goes back to their preparation for dealing with change, dealing with frustration, dealing with new things in the home,

and we just don't know to what level these animals were prepared for that and obviously by the outcome more was needed to alexis teres chuck radar online.com let's go through the facts from beginning to end what to start at the beginning maybe i'm missing something the this is the home where little girl lives her grandmother her parents are not home her grandmother is taking care of her so little girl lives. Her grandmother, her parents are not home. Her grandmother is taking care of her. So little girl needs a bottle because that's how she gets fed. The grandmother leaves the baby,

just three months old, tiny thing, in one room, goes in the other room. There are three dogs in the house. A Rottweiler, a Labrador, and a Chihuahua tiny dog. So two dogs that are about 98 pounds, one dog that's about 10 pounds. And grandma leaves the room to heat up the bottle,

mix the bottle, take care of the bottle in the other room in the kitchen. Comes back in and the dogs are mauling this baby. You know, it's... She tries to get them off. It's almost more than I can take in. You know, Alexis Tereshak, you remember when I had the twins,

John, David, and Lucy. I was, don't laugh at me. I had, you know, I'm not a cat person at all, Alexis, but I took in a solid black stray cat when I was living in Midtown Atlanta. I brought the cat in. I fell in love with the cat, Coco. It was a boy cat. And I had Coco for 18 years. I became a cat person because of Coco. I was so freaked out, Alexis. I wouldn't even let my beloved cat be around the twins by themselves. I don't know what I thought was going to happen. I thought maybe they might get scratched. I didn't know, but I would not even allow Coco, my old cat, to be alone around the twins when they were babies, Alexis. A lot of people say that. A lot of people, you know, get rid of their animals when they have a baby. They tell you, we have dogs to take something home from the hospital when the baby's born. You know, you have 40 million blankets and hats in the hospital take that home let the dog smell it that's what we had to do with our dogs so this

little baby has been in the home for three months and grandma leaves the room the dogs come in attack her the police were called they say that they do not know which dog it is they are taking dna they took all three dogs out of the home immediately they're taking dna from the dogs to determine which one was responsible for the attack they had enough evidence obviously all over this baby and they feel like they can determine it by dna a 90 a 98 pound rottweiler an 89 pound labpound Labrador, and a 10-pound Terrier, all family pets at Grandma's home. To Vincent Hill, a private investigator joining us, former PD. Also with me, our special guest, Dr. Gray Stafford. I met him during the Jodi Arias trial.

He was then the director of conservation at the Wildlife World Zoo and Aquarium in Phoenix. Vincent Hill, I'm looking right now at the grandma's house. And Vincent, when you hear things like that, it's easy to say, oh, these are those crazy dog people that would let their dogs run through the house. This is a beautiful neighborhood. If you look at grandma's home, it's perfectly and immaculately kept it's beautiful so what i'm trying to say is don't try and distance yourself from these people it's easy to do that i think it makes us feel better because we go oh that would never happen to me but this is a really nice neighborhood with

a loving grandmother yeah n, it could happen anywhere. And, you know, when my son was first born, we actually had a Rottweiler. And one of the things I did, I took two blankets before we even brought him home. So the Rottweiler Rock, what's his name, could actually smell the blankets and get used to his scent. But what I learned as my son got older and could start to crawl and walk, you know, Rottweilers are very strong. They're very playful at the same time. So what appears to be aggression is sometimes the Rottweiler playing roughly. So what we had to do was get rid of Rock and we got two German Shepherds because, you know, Rock was just as very brute of a dog and he would, you know, knock my son around.

So it was we made that decision. Hey, we need to get rid of Rock. And we got German Shepherds you know knock my son around so it was we made that decision hey we need to get rid of rock and we got german shepherds who never touched my son okay now hold on wait a minute vincent walk me through that again you got rid of your rottweiler because why because as my son was able to start crawling around and moving around you know any certain sound or a laugh or a cry, Rot would kind of like go up to him, headbutt him, you know, it was just like Rot's way. Did you say headbutt him? Headbutt him? Am I hearing correctly? I don't know if it was him checking to see if my son was okay or maybe thinking he was playing with my son, but you know, when you're a 98, 100 pound dog and you have this six month old crawling around on the floor,

that's not something you definitely want to keep up with. So we had to get rid of it. Okay, you know, Vincent, I hope that you did not have the dog euthanized, but I'm glad you got the dog away from the baby. To Dr. Grace Stafford, physiologist, author of Zoomility, positive reinforcement trainer, formerly the director of conservation at Wildlife World Zoo in Phoenix. I don't really know how to verbalize this, Gray, but you know me well enough to know the point I'm trying to make. I'm not trying to vilify Rottweilers or any other breed of dog. And this is not a statistic.

This is anecdotal. Gray Stafford, I have covered so many cases where Rottweilers in particular, a few others have attacked people and i don't understand why no one wants to admit that this is true certain breeds of dog are not as safe as others well i would agree with you that certain breeds of dog have the ability to inflict serious harm or worse, right? Because of their size, their strength, because of what they've been bred for over the eons. But to me, it goes back to how the animals are trained, how are they prepared or not in the case of this baby or other families. As you said, this is a nice looking home, but it goes down to preparation.

And like any dangerous- Gray, Gray, you know, I love you, Gray, deeply, deeply. But, you know, I don't know how you can say it's all about training because you don't hear if training is equal across the board. Why isn't it a labradoodle or a dachshund or a German shepherd or even a Doberman pincher who look really scary looking sometimes they're not the ones attacking babies and killing them and adults and their owners it's always these two breeds pit bulls and rottweilers it can't be just the training gray

that that's statistically impossible some of it has to do with the popularity of the breed because if you look at the number of dog bites in the in the u.s for example the leading breed for dog bites are chihuahuas and yet they're probably not likely to cause death it's it the behavior is the same the drives for those but wait a minute gray gray gray gray gray that's a blanket statement a dog bite from a chihuahua does what what make you spray some bactine on it and go about your business put a little um emoji band-aid on it maybe a bite from a chihuahua is a lot different from a bite from a pit bull okay you know what i'm going to turn the tables on you dr gray stafford right. I'll give you your statistic that it's typically a Chihuahua that

does a little nipping, but what dog most often kills a human? What about that? Dr. Gray Stafford? Well, there's several, uh, at the top. I mean, certainly large breeds like, uh, Rottweilers, uh, Pitbull varieties, German Shepherds. There are other large breeds that cause problems. But to me, as you said earlier, you're not trying to demonize a certain breed, and neither am I. It has to do with training, and it has to do with the consequences of a large animal. The training. You're back on the training again. I just don't think you can chalk it up to training.

These are very aggressive animals. And, hey, you want to have a Rottweiler? You want to have a pit bull? Have at it. But number one, keep them away. Absolutely. Absolutely. From my children. And you heard Vincent Hill, he had one and their playful

dog started headbutting the baby. So he moved it out of the home. I'm just saying I get exhausted and emotionally drained by seeing one child after the next killed by a pit bull or a Rottweiler. All right, go ahead. Pit bull, Rottweiler lovers hate me. I'm just telling you the way it is. A mom found dead. Rebecca Becky Apodaca in an attack so brutal. Autopsy photos are not fit for public viewing. What happened to Becky?

And how does Benadryl fit into the scenario? Alexis Torres, Chuck Rader, online.com investigative reporter. I've given my children Benadryl fit into the scenario? Alexis Torres, Chuck Rader, online.com investigative reporter. I've given my children Benadryl. How does Benadryl fit into a scenario where a mom is found brutally attacked and is dead? So this mom works from home. Her 26-year-old son actually lives with her. She was not heard from. One day she always checks into

work. She works from home, didn't check into work, didn't start working, didn't respond to text messages from friends, her supervisors, her daughter. Nobody hears from her all day. So her daughter shows up in the late afternoon, shows up at her apartment, goes in the house, finds her mom beaten to a bloody pulp with a hammer, just blood everywhere. She's on her bed and she finds her brother, 26 years old, in the closet, hiding, hiding in the closet. And he is completely naked, is babbling incoherently. He has. He has slit his own throat. His wrists are slit.

But he is still alive. She calls the police. The police come. They find the murder weapon. In the apartment. They find the hammer. They find the knife the brothers used. They actually find. The floor is.

The apartment is completely soaked in blood. They find a toaster in the sink covered in water as if maybe somebody was trying to electrocute themselves. That's all covered with blood. They search. They can't find any reason. They literally see two little pills on the floor, and they think, hmm, maybe this has something to do with it. They take the pills, they take them, they test them. They're Benadryl anti-allergy, anti-histamine medicine. And they realize,

they find packaging, that this man took 100 allergy pills. Joining me right now, Dr. William Maroney, renowned medical examiner. Dr. Maroney, what is the active ingredient in Benadryl and what effect will it have on a person? Benadryl is a brand name, the generic name, the active chemical. The medicine is diphenhydramine. Diphenhydramine has been used for four decades, and it is predominantly for allergies. It's an antihistamine. So if you get something that causes an allergic reaction, a swelling and itching, diphenhydramine is available as a cream. It's available as a cream. It's available as a pill. And in the hospital, in the emergency room, or in surgery or ICU, it's available as an injection. But it's always capped out around 50 milligrams.

And the generic over-the-counter version is 25 milligrams. And it's safe when taken the doses that are marketed and sold and the instructions are to be followed with those doses. Dr. Maroney, what would 80 pills do to a person? I have seen the effects of taking 30 to 40 diphenhydramine. Somebody who kept forgetting that they took some and took more and then took more. And she became delirious. She was having auditory and visual hallucinations because the key structure in the chemistry of diphenhydramine is that it's a phenylethylamine is very similar to a methamphetamine.

Very similar. And at high doses, you overwhelm the brain when it's designed to be taken as 25 milligrams over the counter, 50 milligrams prescription. And then suddenly, 80 pills or tablets, you've got over 2,000 milligrams on something that you should take 25, you will have hallucinations. My patient was hearing, seeing, and talking to dead people in her family from her past. And she was doing it in my presence. And I said, you're taking way too much of this. You need to back down. And she would turn around and turn to the side where there was nobody and ask them questions.

And I said, who are you talking to? And she said, well, this is so-and-so, but they're dead, so you don't know them. And she was seeing and talking to dead people at those high doses. Dr. Maroney, what would 100 pills do to a person? drug-induced psychosis where you're absolutely not in reality with the physical things around you would you might not hear or respond to the people and you would be driven by these hallucinations at such a strong and pathological level the it's known as a deliriant at that level, a deliriant, and a medicine that causes delirium. Okay.

Wow. The mother is found dead in a blood-soaked bed there in the apartment that she shared with her son. The mom is actually pretty young. She must have had him at a young age. Benadryl is the name for a substance used, as Alexis told you, to treat allergies. Now, this guy, 26-year-old McGee, is found, as Alexis told you, butt naked, hiding in a closet. Now, according to his lawyers, murder is different from killing.

Hmm, interesting that they make that differentiation. We don't know when exactly he attacked his mother, but we know that around 8 a.m. that day, she, the mom, Becky, had failed to log in at her at-home medical billing job. And all day long, she never responded to messages from friends, her family, her supervisor at work. So at 8 a.m., there's already trouble. Sounds like it happened sometime during the night. Then Becky misses dinner plans, and her daughter stops by to check on mom. 6.30 p.m. She finds her mom dead on a blood-soaked bed.

In the bedroom closet was the brother babbling. The daughter calls 911 and when firefighters get there, Becky was still lying there and McGee was lying on the floor, half in the bedroom, halfway in the bathroom. His eyes bugged out and his pupils dilated. His legs were shaking. He couldn't walk walk according to the prosecutor inside the apartment as alexis was telling us police find knives two knives were found in a blood smeared bathtub and a bloody toaster in the sink the rug was soaked with water in the, investigators find a bottle of generic allergy medicine, except for one pill, empty, but for one pill stuck near the edge and two on the floor. What do you make, Dr. Maroney, of the physical symptoms? His eyes, quote,

bugged up, hiding in a closet naked, superficial scratches to his body. I would say that they're hypervigilant, fearful, and paranoid. And these are all things that you can get in hallucinations with delirium. It makes total sense. And that's why we need to control these medications and regular screening by primary care doctors and poison control centers to make sure that they're not taken at those really high pathological levels. Okay. With me, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan. Let's look at the scene, Joe Scott. We've got the bloody toaster, which means this occurred after he had stabbed her at least once. Bloody toaster in a sink, which means he had unplugged it and moved it, possibly plugged it back in again.

Was he trying to electrocute his mother? Was he trying to electrocute himself? Two knives, bloody, in the bathtub. The bathtub covered in blood. What do you make of it, Joseph Scott Morgan? Well, there's going to be this kind of, you know, homicidal dance that would have taken place. We can, hopefully, they have gone back and reconstructed the scene using the smears, the spatters. Everything is connected.

Let's go back to the toaster. We're assuming that he used that toaster or he may have used that to electrocute her. But what if he initiated the attack with the toaster itself and got blood on it by bludgeoning it? I'm just saying a weapon of opportunity. You're talking about an event that's very up close and personal. We've got bloody knives and we've got a bloody hammer as well. Yeah, hold on. That's important to me, that he would have the wherewithal to seek out multiple weapons,

two knives and a hammer, because I know that she, Becky, had been struck at least 10 times in a 4 by 4 inch area in the center of her face, going straight for her face with a hammer and two knives. Go ahead. Yeah, and that's the thing about it, Nancy. career when you when you work these bludgeoning kind of cases like this it's very difficult many times because you have overlapping injuries to appreciate what the origin of some of these things are and also you you couple that with sharp force injuries now i've got a scenario in mind here and i can address that as we go along but i think that uh the bathtub is going to play a key in here. I'm wondering if at some point, Tom, he didn't make some kind of effort to clean her in some way or to clean himself. What's really going to be important here is to see from a serological

standpoint, as well as from perspective of DNA, to see whose blood is contained in that bathtub. He apparently attempted self-harm here. Did he do it to himself or is the blood? Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Attempted self-harm. Why is it, Lauren Howard, New York psychologist, that the mom, oh, she's dead. She's dead 10 times over. She's stabbed multiple times. She's beat in the face with a hammer. Can you imagine the pain she endured, the velocity with which he hit her? And then he's got a couple of scratches. It sounds like he murdered her and then put scratches on himself. That's not trying to kill yourself. Well, you know, this Benadryl thing has me haunted

because first of all, you know, we're saying this occurred perhaps in the night or at least early in the morning. They discover it in the evening. They do a toxicology on him and find the Benadryl levels in his blood. When did he take the Benadryl? Did he take it before or after? I think that's the deed of his case, frankly. I mean, I think that's sort of the whole ball of wax. Why do you say that? Explain to me kill myself. You don't take a hundred Benadryl to get high. Okay. I mean, that's a, you're looking to take a lethal dose of whatever is available and Benadryl happen to be available. That's a whole different scenario. I'm not excusing it, but it's a whole different scenario from what his, his defense attorneys are saying, which is, you know, the Benadryl caused him to go crazy and kill his mother. Yeah, hey. Totally different. Two different cases.

Yeah, Nancy, I got to say here that what's really curious, as the doctor was saying, what's really curious to me is that when they found him, he was in this kind of shocky state where he's vibrating, he's in the closet, all this sort of thing. My thought is that if he had taken this prior to the event, I think this shoots a real big hole in the defense's case. If he had taken this prior to the event, he would have had time for this Benadryl to begin to metabolize out of his system. She makes the point that his levels were really high. That's why I think that what this is going to come down to, did the medical examiner in the corner go out there and make an assessment of postmortem interval on the mother?

Were they able to do a body temperature, assess live remortis, the settling of the blood, and the degree to which rigor mortis was set in? Because the time frame here is going to be critical, particularly as it goes to this point that the defense is trying to make. Yeah, he took a handful of Benadryl. He went on the crazy wagon and killed his mom. Listen, there are people that have psychotic breaks. It's been documented with diphenhydramine. It's really dangerous when you mix diphenhydramine with something like Xanax. But to say that he took Benadryl, went nuts, and killed his mom in this violent way,

I'm not buying it. I'm not buying it for a second. Well, a toxicology screening shows that the levels of diphenhydramine were so high he could have taken 100 or more at 25 milligrams of peel. 100 or more. Where do you even get that much Benadryl? Dr. Maroney, is it possible to look at the toxicology reports on the defendant, the 26-year-old son, and determine when he took the Benadryl? What I'm getting at, Dr. Maroney, is what if he killed his mother and then tried to OD on Benadryl? Well, you can tell if somebody took a lot of those pills right away,

then they only have the parent compound in them. But if they were taken over a longer period of time that goes back in the past, they will have the metabolism products in them. Because like all drugs, like all medicines, like all chemicals, the body metabolizes them. So high levels of metabolites and low levels of parent compound would put you out saying that this may have been days ago. Benadryl, the brand name for diphenhydramine, used to treat allergies. So my question to you, what difference does it make to you, Joseph Scott Morgan,

that Becky Apodaca had been dead for hours and hours before she was found dead in a bloody bed? What does that mean to you? Well, what that tells me, Nancy, is that if they had an indication, that number is coming from somebody. You're saying hours and hours. That means that they've done a post-mortem assessment of her at the scene. This is going to be really hard if they can get a toxicologist on the stand in this case to talk about how Benadryl metabolizes through the system. And if they're wise, they'll do this. And they'll talk about how just imagine a gigantic arc, a bell curve, if you will.

You take it initially, it begins to ramp up. And then as your body begins to push this stuff out of your system, it dips down. If he's at that peak time-wise, they say that it peaks at two hours downrange. Well, she's been dead now 13 hours. Those two timelines are going to have to superimpose over one another for the defense's case to make sense. And right now, it doesn't sound like it does. Who would imagine that a generic bottle of antihistamine could end in a murder like this? The timing is important. When did this happen? How long had he been in the closet? Did he

take the Benadryl after the murder? Can we tell that? Can we tell that, Joseph Scott Morgan? Yeah, I think that there's a possibility that they can, if they have, this is curious to me. We hear about toxicology in the dead quite often, you know, and it's just something that's standard that's done at the morgue. I find it interesting that because, that based upon the way he was behaving at the scene, that they drew tox on this guy. They held on to his blood, which on the part of the, of the police was very, very wise. And then they ran talks on him.

They connected that back to the pills that they found on the floor. And what's really cool about this, Nancy, is that they're going to be able to say they're going to give a timeline, not just with the body, but also with this menagerie. And they're going to have people that are going to come in and testify that, look, he took this sometime after she was dead. That's a pretty accurate marker.

You know, most people think that in death investigation, we can say, oh, wow, yeah, I can nail it down to a 15-minute time period. There is no way. But you get out, we can kind of, particularly this close to the lethal event, we can look back and sometimes we can nail it about three to four hours. That's a big gap for us, and that's a target that's easy to hit, particularly when you have this other marker of the toxicology samples that they took on him after they took him into custody. Well, I'm telling you, it'll be a torpedo to the defense if it turns out he murdered his mother and then tried to OD on Benadryl, which may have been the only thing he could

get his hands on. Think about it. That changes everything if he murdered her first and then took the Benadryl. That's an analysis I would make. There's a lot of physical evidence here you've got to take into account to piece together the timeline. A, she was dead at 8 a.m., 8 in the morning, which means this occurred, who knows, during the night, during the early morning hours.

We've got to establish when she was last known to be alive the day or the night before then based on his blood his toxicology we've got to try to figure out if possible maybe there's another way to do it maybe he was texting maybe he was emailing um there's a million ways you can show what was happening in the home leading up to be's murder. But they've got to piece together that along with the bloody toaster, the soaking wet floor rug, the two knives bloody, the bloody bathtub, the mom in the bed. Was she dressed? Was she naked? Did she have on her PJs? Did she have on her clothes from the day before?

All of this will factor in, and then, of course, his blood, the toxicology, may be able to reveal when he took the Benadryl, or maybe he told the police when he took the Benadryl. Maybe we even have a purchase of Benadryl at a certain time. Who knows what the facts will reveal? This is all going down in the Vista, California courtroom right now, and we are on it. You want to hear the latest? Log on to crimeonline.com to find out what exactly is going down in the courtroom. But I know this, voluntary use of drugs or alcohol is not a defense.

Otherwise, everybody in the jailhouse right now would say, I was high on Benadryl and walk free to attack more innocent victims. Let's see what Lady Justice unfolds in a court of law. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.