Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - SHEIN Launches Investigation after Luigi Mangione Appears Modeling Men's Shirts in Their Ads

Episode Date: September 27, 2025

A new investigation surrounding Luigi Mangione. The retail giant Shein is trying to figure out who used a likeness of the accused murderer in an ad campaign on the company's website. It has now been removed but the image of Mangione was used to model a white, short-sleeved shirt.   A spokesperson from Shein says the likeness was provided by a third-party vendor.   Mangione has been indicted on first-degree murder in furtherance of terrorism.  He is also charged with two counts of murder in the second degree, with one of those counts also denoting Mangione murder of CEO Brian Thompson as an act of terrorism. Now the Federal government is seeking the death penalty. Attorney General Pam Bondi directed federal prosecutors to seek the death penalty which marks the first such directive by the Trump administration.   New York, where the murder occurred, has abolished the death penalty, and Mangione's lawyers are attempting to block the federal death penalty pursuit, arguing the move is a political stunt.  Police questioned Mangione's mom the day before he was captured. She told officers that the shooting 'might be something that she could see him doing.' JOINING NANCY GRACE TODAY: Matt Mangino - Attorney, Former District Attorney (Lawrence County), Author: "The Executioner's Toll: The Crimes, Arrests, Trials, Appeals, Last Meals, Final Words and Executions of 46 Persons in the United States"  Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker,"  featured in hit show: "Paris in Love" on Peacock www.drbethanymarshall.com/ , Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, Twitter: @DrBethanyLive Tom Smith - Former NYPD Detective, former  member FBI/NYPD Joint Terrorism Task Force. Co-Host of the GOLD SHIELDS Podcast, https://thegoldshieldshow.com, FB & Instagram: @thegoldshieldshow Sheryl McCollum - Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder, ColdCaseCrimes.org, Host: Zone 7, Twitter: @ColdCaseTips Joseph Scott Morgan  - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan", @JoScottForensic Christina Aguayo - National News Anchor, Salem News Channel, website: www.ChristinaAguayoNews.Com, Facebook: @ChristinaAguayoNews, Instagram: @Christina.AguayoNews See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Well, it's Friday night, and it is special. What does accused assassin Luigi Mangione have to do with the world's largest fashion retailer, shine? Okay, wait for it. Wait for it. Remember Luigi Mangione? He's behind bars for gunning down a health care CEO leaving behind a widow and two boys because he was, quote, angry at the insurance system.

Yeah, he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, was educated within the Ivy League, prep schools all the way, has been baking in the sun in Hawaii by the ocean living in a high rise, not working. working a lick. And then he comes to Manhattan and guns down, a hardworking CEO. Yeah, that's Luigi Mangione. But what does he have to do with Shine? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. In the last days, the alleged assassin was pictured beaming. Wait, rephrase. In the last days, the alleged assassin was pictured smiling for the camera, wearing a white floral-patterned button-up shirt in the image on the Chinese... I can't say that. Okay. In the last days, the alleged assassin has been pictured smiling for the camera wearing a white floral patterned button-up shirt. And it's apparently a shine

article. And it states underneath it, men's new spring, summer, short, sleeve, blue, ditsy floral, white shirt, pastoral style, gent, something. He's wearing that. He's modeling that for $10.39. He's wearing a Maha men's striped short sleeve shirt for 877. What, Luigi Mangione is now a cover model for Shine. They say no why. They say no way. And I think I know why they don't want to be associated with Luigi Mangioni. Earlier this morning in Altoona, Pennsylvania, members of the Altoona Police Department arrested Luigi Mangione, a 26-year-old male on firearms charges. At this time, he is believed to be our person of interest. From what we understand a McDonald's employee and Altoona in western Pennsylvania spotted the guy and thinks

he looked like the health boss assassin, probably trying to use a fake ID in a McDonald's according to law enforcement and the New York Post, the man being eyed for the cold-blooded execution of Brian Thompson. The guy has a gun, a silent. for fake IDs and other items consistent with what L.E. was looking for in the case. But is it him? Does he match this description? According to a McDonald's employee, he does. What else do we know? Where is Altona, Pennsylvania? Western Pennsylvania, 280 miles away from Manhattan, a little over a five-hour drive. but the manhunt across the nation going in every direction from Manhattan, divers, drones, you name it, all used, employed to find the killer of the health care boss. What led to the detainment of this guy? We also understand that in his possession is a New Jersey ID, a fake ID, possibly.

used to check into that Manhattan hostel. Police press conference, listen. A male was taken into custody today at Altoona, Pennsylvania this morning. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangione. He's a male 26 years old. He was born and raised in Maryland. We know he has ties to San Francisco, California, and his last known address was Honolulu, Hawaii. He has no prior arrest history in New York.

Members of the NYPD Detective Bureau are currently traveling to Pennsylvania, with members of the Manhattan District Attorney's Office to interview this subject. This case was brought to a successful conclusion based on the coordinated effort between numerous NYPD units, including the Intelligence and Counterterrorism Bureau, of federal partners at the FBI, the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, and of course, members of the Altoona Police Department in Pennsylvania. On Thursday, one day after this crime was committed, the NYPD released a photo of the shooter in this case.

This picture was obtained by the NYPD during one of their extensive video canvases. We took that photograph and we asked for the public's health in identifying this subject, and the public responded. Hundreds of tips began to pour into our hotline. Each tip was investigated thoroughly, and we began to release additional photographs as they came into our possession. The NYPD provided these photos to numerous media outlets. Local, national, and international outlets released the photo via television, print social media and online content. Luckily, a citizen in Pennsylvania

who recognized our subject and called local law enforcement. Members of the Altoona Police Department responded to the call, and based on their investigation, they notified the NYPD. This investigation is still active and ongoing. Thank you very much. I had a couple questions about the document

that he was found in possession with. Can you go a little bit more in depth about those motivations that you mentioned? was that CEO specifically named in that document? Was there anything more about him wanting to go after others? And also in that document, was there any indication that explains us how the level of detail that he went into killing him? Like, is there anything? That document is currently in the possession of the Altoona Police Department as part of their investigation.

But just from briefly speaking with them, we don't think that there's any specific threats to other people mentioned in that document. but it does seem that he has some ill will toward corporate America. Can you point to a single linchpin that helped crack this case? There's numerous linchpins in this case in the fact that we've recovered an enormous amount of forensic evidence, an enormous amount of video, and once again, with your help and the public's help. So I really couldn't put it on one thing, but if I had to, it would be the release of that photograph from the media. We had divers in the water yesterday. That came up negative results. we don't believe that he was planning on doing any traveling at this time we don't think he

at this point our investigation we don't think he was trying to flee the country the person at the McDonald's were they buying food what were they doing at that exact moment it was an employee at the McDonald's right but what was the suspect doing he was sitting there reading uh neither from the New York Post I was just hoping to get more details on the capture itself did he put up a fight did he say anything to cops and we've also reported that he published online anti-health care industry rantings can you share with us some of the services that he posted on. We're still working through his social media.

We're going to do a complete scrub of that. Preliminarily, like I said, he seems that he has some ill will toward corporate America, but that will all come out as part of our investigation. We're not done here. We're still going to be putting this together. We're still going to be working very hard to bring this to a successful conclusion. A ghost gun, a silencer, fake IDs, and a handwritten manifesto attacking the healthcare industry? sounds like

our guy. But what else led to this detainment in Pennsylvania? Hey, Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us. I were now a psychoanalyst out of L.A. author of Deal Breaker. You can see her on Peacock now. Dr. Bethany, the theory

that the assassin meant to scatter toy monopoly money over the dead body that tells me a lot about him. He's got a lot of time sitting in somebody's basement thinking and plotting. It almost rules out a day job in my mind.

But that said, we know he's white male. We know he's got money. And a guy that can fund himself cash-wise for, you know, nearly two weeks in Manhattan. We also know that while he may have meant to scatter fake monopoly money all over the dead body sending a message, as if the 9-millimeter bullet didn't do that, He didn't leave the money behind, but he did leave behind a water bottle with DNA and fingerprints on it.

He left behind a candy or bar wrapper. He left behind a burner phone. If they can break into that burner phone, that is going to be a tremendous source of evidence. But he forgot to strow the money. Ah, Nancy, he forgot it. This guy is obsessional. In the crime world, you may say methodical. I say obsessional, meaning he has been thinking about this.

a long, long time. When I have a patient like this come into my Beverly Hills office, they usually are enraged at one person, and that is all they can talk about, what they would like to do, what the persons look on their face would be like. You know, Nancy, with obsessional paranoia, the person sort of alleviates their rage by constantly thinking about inflicting harm on the victim. But I also think although he obsessed about this and planned it out, this was his first crime. He did not, he did not think about what it would be like to drop a candy wrapper, drop the water bottle. He didn't have time to plan them. He didn't have time to scatter the monopoly money. This was all in his head. He had never practiced before.

Hey, you know what, Tom Smith, former NYPD, knows this area like the back of his hand. Tom, The burner. The cell phone. I mean, there's an outside chance. It's his actual cell phone. But the report's where he is it's a burner phone. Lauren Conlin, yes, no, burner phone, actual phone. Burner phone, Nancy. Tom Smith, what I'm coming to you about is the phone. What an idiot. I think Bethany's right. This may be his first time at the rodeo. And, you know, like, let me think of a good one. Robert Blake, remember when he and his henchmen got his bodyguards got together and murdered. Bonning Lee Bakley, and they had this extensive to-do list very often. You can catch the perp because of their to-do list, and they're over-planning, right? But the burner phone, they're really hard to break into. Do you remember in the Alex Morg trial? They had to bring in the secret service to crack his phone. Yeah, and I agree with Lauren.

It's a burner phone. And who knows what's on there? Yeah, he could just use it for simple things. Again, if he plans it out and knows burner phones and what to use them for, there may not be a lot on there, but the ability to break in there might not be that difficult

because of the low technology that burner phones usually are and the limited amount of information that'll be on there. All the surveillance video, all the pictures that we've got so far talking on the phone just before the murder. Hey, Dr. Bethany Marshall

and then I'm going to follow up with Renal Defense Attorney Jason Oceans. Dr. Bethany, He's not worried. Look at him. He has practiced this over and over and over. He has been watching the victim like a hawk from the moment the victim got into town. This guy knows the itinerary by heart. He knew that there was a breakfast.

He knew that that started at 8 o'clock. He knew that the victim was going over ahead of time from the Hilton over to the executive forum where he was set to speak that much. morning. Now, all of this surveillance video is from individuals and businesses along the trek. Check it out. So what I'm getting at, Dr. Bethany, this guy is cold, cool, and calculated. This is definitely cold-blooded and methodical to use the panel's term. Nancy, there's one thing this guy forgot to do. He didn't watch the Nancy Gray show, because if he had, he would have known that there were surveillance cameras, all.

along that street and that 15-minute phone call, that makes me wonder if this is like the DC sniper where an older, more ruthless person recruited a younger person or that he's acting in concert with somebody else, and that's why he's on that phone. Hey, Lauren, it was a call 15 minutes before the shooting, not a 15-minute phone call, correct? Correct. The phone call occurred at 6.30 a.m. So, Dr. Bethany, but I agree with what you were saying, but he did not yak for 15 minutes. minutes. It's almost as if he's checking in. Because I'm wondering, is he speaking or is he listening? I can't tell. Plus his mouth is covered right there. And I'll tell you why. Jason Ocean is joining me. We're now a defense attorney joining us out of this jurisdiction who also, you and I have

walked this track before, together at Jason Ocean. Back around court TV and HLN days, Jason. Absolutely. The reason I'm wondering if he was listening to something and not talking, I prosecuted an arson murder. And just before the guy burned his mansion down and tried to fake that his wife died in the fire from smoke inhalation, he called and checked the weather channel, Jason. I was so happy.

He called and checked the weather channel to find out if it was going to rain the day he was setting the house on fire. So, for all I know, this guy's checking the bus schedule or checking, what's his, now I know he was not on a flight. I know he was on a bus, but every time I'm headed to LaGuardia, I call or I check online to see if my Delta flight is delayed, okay? How do I know if he was just checking something or actually speaking to someone in Bethany's train of thought? What if he calls someone, it was a quick call when, hey, I'm on the way right now, I'm walking. I just passed Starbucks.

It could be that. It could be anything. No, Nancy, I think the theory that, you know, the potential theory that he was directed by someone, and that's why he was on the phone is fascinating. And also struck by the, his lack of knowledge, you know, the overall aspect of the cameras that are everywhere. I think he didn't plan for that. That was the one thing in this seemingly meticulous planning that was not done. But that phone call could be very critical.

If we can find out if it was an incoming or an outgoing call and the limited technology it has and the ability to bust that phone up. I got to figure out how the Secret Service actually cracks it. You'd think it would be easy because, you know, Cheryl McCollum with me, forensic expert, when I was researching for my last book, Don't Be a Victim, I found out that about, I think it was 70% or 80%, some crazy astronomical number of people still use. the factory code that they had on answer machines, or they do one, two, three, four is their code, or one, one, one, one, one, or of course, 69, 69, that's a new trite and true. Or, let's see, lucky numbers that they come up with, like 7777.7. It's so predictable. But then you got somebody like this who's half smart, and he's probably got some bizarre code on his self. phone, the burner. You know how long it took them to crack Alex Marnog's phone? They had to bring in the secret service to do it. Exactly. And if you look, that phone call could have been something as simple as he called in sick to work because he knew he wasn't going to make it.

Who you can call at 645 a.m. is a very small group of people. So it could have been he's checking the bus schedule because he's leaving that morning and wants to make sure. Oh, that's smart, smart, smart, smart. Wait, whoa, blah, blah, but you just, you just really gave me a clue, Cheryl, who are you going to call at 6 o'clock in the morning? That's right. Not very many people. Okay, go ahead. Because if you call your mom or a sister or something like that, you're going to scare the day like that of them. So it's got to be somebody that's obvious. So you can leave a message for somebody because you know they're not at work yet. You can check the bus schedule. I'm not as interested in that as I am his other messages, what he wrote on the shell casing,

the threat before the murder, the fact that he would choose New York and not the victim's home state. Why not shoot him at any red light going through work? Oh, Cheryl, Cheryl, you just gave me another tidbit. Hold on. I want to tell everybody, at first we were led to believe that the bullets were engraved in some way with deny, defend, depose. we now know it was written with black sharpie, which tells me even more. Do you know that you can get a handwriting sample off of that? Not that I think police are going to need a handwriting sample when they've got fingerprints and DNA, but you never know what might click with the jury. What about it, Cheryl? A hundred percent. But again, it tells you he took extra time

to leave a message on shell casings. He took extra time to get the monopoly money. That's a message. Shooting him in New York City the morning of that meeting was a message. He could have shot him anytime in his home state at a red light, but he didn't. This is somebody that was laser focused about his intended target and his motive. Here. the last days, the world's single largest fashion retailer, Shine, is trying to get to the bottom of a mystery regarding Luigi Mangione. The 27-year-old has, of course, attracted a huge fan base, mostly female supporters. I don't know what they're thinking. But now has appeared seemingly modeling for Shine. They say, no way, how did this happen? Apparently, they don't want

to touch him with a 10-foot pole. And this is why. The suspect was in a McDonald's and was recognized by an employee who then called local police. Responding officers questioned the suspect who was acting suspiciously and was carrying multiple fraudulent IDs as well as a U.S. passport. First, I want to go out to our dive expert. I'm curious about the search in the lake at Central Park. The New York Police Department dive team is called into action after the the discovery of the backpack near Heckscher Playground. The divers are seen trawling a Central Park pond behind an area cordoned off with police tape next to Bethesda fountain in a body of water known as the lake near Central Park

Boathouse. The NYPD has been searching Central Park since the gunman was seen escaping on any bike into the park. They have recovered the distinctive gun used in the shooting and it's unclear if officers recovered any evidence from the water. Joining me, special guest, Ben Doberin, Virginia Beach Emergency Medical Services, Also, the dean of professional services at Virginia Wesleyan University. He is an expert diver, and he is actually a dive instructor. Well, I do a lot of police diving also in addition to emergency diving.

And so I'm looking at this on Google Maps, and it's a relatively closed area. So that makes it a lot easier than having to go, like, into the ocean or, you know, a Great Lake or the Chesapeake Bay. So it makes it a lot easier for the divers. It's also, I just looked it up. It's only four to six feet deep. So that also makes a lot more simple to do a dive operation. But what they could be doing is they're going to be looking for anything that they can find. And one thing that your listeners and watchers need to understand is anything that exists above water,

exist underwater. People use it as a garbage dump. We find, you name it, bikes, washing machines, shopping carts. So there's a lot of debris. The more people that are around, the more people use that as a dumping ground. But there's two things that I imagine they're looking for, just listening to the different news reports and listening to you, they're looking for the firearm, obviously, but that telephone also, they're looking for that. Those are both very small items that are relatively easy to discard.

And one of the things that if you find an item like that, you're going to have to recover it. Evidence recovery is the same underwater as it is above water from the police perspective, but the one thing we have to keep in mind is that it's in a different environment. Evidence above water is in air, so all you do is keep it in air, but evidence that's recovered underwater, you have to recover it with the water. If you take it out of the water, things start to break down relatively quickly. What I'm talking about specifically is fingerprints. If you take something out of the water and fingerprints can last for about a week underwater. So the clock is ticking. But if you remove whether it's a firearm or the telephone or any piece

of evidence, you're going to want to take it out of the water and just bring some of the local water with it and then bring that to your forensics office and then they're going to drain the water and then do all the magic they do to get the fingerprints off of it. Okay, Ben Dobwin is joining me not only Dean Professional Services at Virginia Wesleyan. He is a dive instructor and a police diver.

Now, Ben, you just taught me something I didn't know. Number one, when items are taken out of the water, you have to preserve them in, preferably the ambient water, the water in which they were in.

Because the moment they hit the air, it starts to degrade, for instance, fingerprints. Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and Star of a hit series, Bodybags with Joe Scott Morgan. I wanted to talk to you about the gun, but I'm going to follow up on what Doberin is telling us. Yes, prints are preserved underwater because prints, fingerprints,

are based on the oil in the body. Oil, water, get it? You can explain better than me. Go ahead. Our fingerprints come about as a result of the discharge of the fatty lipids that we have in the pores that surround the print that's left behind. Remember, we don't have fingerprints on the tips of our fingers. We have friction ridges that leave behind fingerprints. So in this particular case, we believe that this is a weapon that has a magazine in it, Nancy.

So if you have a magazine, that means that you're going to be pressing down on the wrong. rounds as you're loading the magazine in and also you're touching that surface of the magazine the magazine is this then fitted into essentially the grip of this weapon and it's kind of in a protected space there so what Ben is talking about is right on the money you have this protected space if you can keep this in in the water that it comes from and take that into the lab they can get around that weapon pretty quickly and raise any kind of latent prints that might be there. You did that so eloquently, Joe Scott. I would have just said, you know, like oil and water, don't mix.

That's exactly what I'm saying here that the oil. Nancy, can say one more thing about this as well? Yeah, you think about, you know, Ben had mentioned how densely populated and all of us have been to Manhattan, how densely populated this area. this guy and pay very close to what I'm about to say this guy if he did this he ain't the first person to think about dumping a weapon into that lake all right so they have a herculean task at hand here dealing around dealing in this filthy water where they're going to be using their hands crawling along how many other weapons are in there just because you find a firearm submerged doesn't mean it's the firearm that was used. Ben, I want to follow up with you on this is a great thing to throw it Jason Oceans when we come back, but this guy did so much planning, Ben, but I bet he didn't measure the depth of this lake and has no idea, even though it's big, it's 20 acres.

I guarantee he didn't know that it was just four to six feet. And I just found that Google, and if you go a little bit further north, it looks like There's the reservoir in the park, and that's 40 feet deep. So that is significantly deeper. I mean, obviously, you can dive that. It just takes a little bit longer to get down and get up. But four to six feet is super easy. If they find something, they can just pop their head out of the water and look at it.

And what he just said is we've done training dives in local lakes where we have found multiple guns when we weren't looking for. I mean, we're just doing a training dive and we found guns. I found a flintlock pistol I wasn't looking for one time because, you know, in a populated era, people think, oh, if I discard a firearm in this lake, Nobody will ever find it. Well, you know, it's hard to see, but if people are looking for it, they're going to find it. You know, the New York City Police Dive Team is one of the most respected in the world. If it's in that little area there, they're going to find something. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

The world's largest fashion retailer has launched an investigation after alleged killer, assassin Luigi Mangione's likeness was seen modeling their shirts and one of, apparently, their advertisements, smiling at the camera and sporting not one but two of their button-up shirts. Okay, they issued a statement, quote, the image in question was provided by a third-party vendor and was removed immediately upon discovery. We have stringent standards for all listings on our platform. Okay, bottom line, he made it into an advertisement for Shine. Why?

Who would have done that, one of his cult followers? And believe me, he's got a lot of cult followers. Joining me right now is expert Tom Smith, NYPD Detective 30 years, and the star of the Gold Shields podcast. Tom, again, thank you for being with us. We've learned a lot about the gun. At first, it looks like it's been manipulated with a homemade silencer on it. We are now understanding that is not a homemade silencer, that this is a weapon that is often used by veterinarians to put down, that's a nice word for it, animals. The magazine is in the grip, and when many people thought that it was jamming and he was clearing it after each shot,

which I thought he did really calmly and methodically, we now know it may be a bolt action that has to be manually cycled after each shot. That changes things, Tom Smith. Yes, it does, because now he knows he's proficient in that weapon, knowing every time he fires it, he's going to have to chamber around. And if I could show you real quick,

this is a Glock, not the same weapon that was used, but similar functioning. Every time he fires that weapon, he'd have to click it like this in order to chamber a round to fire the next round. And the thing about him is he knows the weapon because he knows that's coming. It's not a surprise to him.

So he fires around, has to clear it, fire another round, clear it to chamber round each time. And he knows the weapon, and he knows that is coming and has to do that. And that's why he stays kind of calm. Any other criminal I've ever dealt with in New York City, once a weapon's jams, they throw it away, they run. He knows exactly how this weapon is being used.

Okay, for once, the movie's got it right, Tom Smith, because in the movies, you always see the person jam the weapon and they just throw it, or they throw it at the person they're shooting at. Here, when you look at the video, he's walking toward the victim. I guarantee you, Tom Smith, this guy practiced probably at a gun range. Oh, yeah, and he probably practiced with that weapon, because, like I said, there's a big difference when you're viewing this, whether someone's panicking or anticipating the movement he's doing. He knows what he has to do to fire that weapon.

You know, I want you to explain one more time for novices out there about the bolt action. We now don't believe the gun was jamming, everybody. We believe it was a bolt action that has to be manually recycled after every shot. Could you explain that and demonstrate one more time, please, Tom? Yeah, this is a 9mm weapon, and the magazine port is in here, just like you mentioned, it's at the bottom of the handle. So once a round is fired, he has to manually clear that round to chamber another round in order to fire it. He'll fire it again and do the same thing over and over again. So like I said, he's very aware of how that gun is used and what he needs to do to fire.

You know, another issue, Tom Smith, and I'm going to bring everybody back in in just a second. But Tom, another feature of this particular gun that is traditionally used by veterinarians to put down animals is it has a very quiet shot, very quiet shot. And the gun we're talking about has a long, as we saw, could you hold yours up again, as a very long barrel like that, this one even seemed a little bit longer. than yours and that can be confused because it looks like a silencer but it's not it's a long weapon and easier to aim uh because you have more of an angle of your target in front of you so like i said he is very aware of how this weapon is used and what it needs to do to find is this gun is a specialized gun this guy practiced and practiced in practice and he had everything planned out you know he practiced with the murder

weapon. He didn't just trot over to Connecticut and buy a gun and then use it the next day. That did not happen. Think of the mindset here. This is a gun he brought with him on a bus. Didn't go on a plane because he couldn't get through TSA with a gun for Pete's sake.

And the airlines know who you are. They have your picture. They have you every three feet in the airport. He didn't want that. He wanted to travel with his gun. What criminal that's practiced and practiced and planned and planned what's to use an alien gun.

Well, it's hard to trace. That's why. If you're using a normal weapon with a serial number and so forth, it's easily traced whether you find it in a month or a year. This, we have no idea whether there's any serial numbers on it, whether there's any distinguishing markings on it. So it could be very benign in identifying it. And that's why he picked. What I'm saying, Dr. Bethany Marshall, is that this guy did not just go into a gun shop and buy the gun just before the murder. If he planned this methodically to get to Manhattan and to carry out this crime,

staking out the scene, the moment he got there November 24, 10 p.m., he didn't go to bed. He went to this location where the forum was going to be held. He didn't buy a new gun. I don't think. I think he brought his preferred weapon with him after practicing for hours on end.

This guy is upper middle class. This guy has money. He has disposable money. And he had access to a weapon in a professional environment. This is not somebody who goes to a gun shop with a fake ID and tries to skip the background check and gets a gun. This is a man who knows this weapon. This is also a man who's researched where the CEO is going to be.

Early reports on the shooting of Brian Thompson pointed to a silencer being used or a modern version of a rare World War II gun. The investigators found themselves looking into a Connecticut gun store. They believe may have sold the weapon. That lead did not pan out, but now Chief Detective Joseph Kenney says they are looking into the use of a veterinary gun being used as the murder weapon. Kenny says the weapon is normally used on farms and ranches. When an animal needs to be put down, the animal can be shot. with this type of weapon that doesn't cause a large noise. The 26-year-old taken into custody on gun charges

apparently had a ghost gun, a silencer, multiple fake IDs, and a handwritten manifesto attacking the healthcare industry. It's not just this moment. This moment is the culmination of thousands of law enforcement man-hours like this. Amid speculation that the shooter traveled to New York on a bus that left from Atlanta. NYPD officers have traveled south for part of their investigation. APD confirmed through a statement that its officers are assisting the NYPD investigators,

whom arrived in Atlanta on Saturday. Sources say they are searching through video from the bus station in town and others along the route to New York City. Officers are working to find a name from tickets purchased for a November 24th Greyhound trip. You notice the investigative reporter said looking for a name, I guarantee you it's not going to be his name. Let me just say that the security and verification procedures at the bus station, a lot less stringent than it is at the airport. He could have gone in with any fake ID and gotten a bus ticket under a fake name, just like he had a fake ID that he got out of Jersey, just like he used a fake ID when he checked into that youth hostel. And speaking of the youth hostel, Lauren Conlin joining me, investigative reporter and star

a primetime crime on YouTube. Lauren, much was made of him flirting with the receptionist. That's not what happened. We now know that to check into that hostel, and it's not just at a hostel, that's where they're doing it, fancy hotels too, when they say, you know, we need some ID. Look at them the next time they ask you that. They look back up at your face, right? So, yeah, there was a little flirtation.

You can see him smiling right there. That's about $10,000 worth of orthodontia on that mouth right there. But that's another can of worms. Lauren, so I don't know that the clerk was flirting with him. She very well may have said, pull down your mask. I've got to make an ID. I mean, this is not the Ritz, okay? Right, right.

And you're correct, Nancy. I did visit the hostel, and everybody working there was friendly, not overly friendly. Something I noticed was that there were multiple cameras throughout the lobby of the hostel. There were cameras outside of the hostel as well. So my understanding is they most likely have multiple angles of this guy, of this shooter. I also visited the businesses surrounding the hostel. I went inside to a local bodega. I went inside to a Dunkin' Donuts. And they informed me that they not do any sort of talking about what they know to anyone but the NYPD, but also that they turned over footage as well. So I believe that NYPD

is going through all of the footage they have right now, which look, it's going to take some time. This is not going to happen overnight. But I think there's going to be a lot more and stills being released of this guy and what he did during his time in New York before the shooting. Straight out to you, Cheryl McCollum. Let's look at this guy. Who is he based on everything we know right now. Nancy, I think one thing that's imperative that everybody's not mentioning is when you talk to the clerk at the hospital, if this or my case, the first thing I would have asked her is, does he have an accent? And that's why I think, again, they are focused on Atlanta. They know where the bus originated. They know what he sounds like. If he's from here, they're going to

know it. The other thing about that weapon, remember, we have three words, which means three possible shell casings. So that gun either jam, and we have an unstint, or we have three spent, which means he missed one, possibly. A ghost gun, a silencer, fake IDs, and a handwritten manifesto attacking the healthcare industry? Sounds like our guy. But what else led to this detainment in Pennsylvania? To Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us, for now in Psycho Allen, Way in, Dr. Bethany. What's your take on it? Who is he?

Nancy, this guy is upper middle class. He's educated. He knew to do this hit at the health care conference because he's sending a message. If he did it at a traffic stop or at the victim's home, it would not send the message. The scribbling on the ammunition, he caught that from researching internal documents

at insurance companies and citing words that employees or claims processors use to deny claims. I am going to guess that he had a family member who had denied care. And because of that, denied care, the family member died. And he cannot get over it. So this is, although he looks like a street thug on, you know, at first glance, he is not. He's got a square chin, perfect teeth, wax between the eyebrows. Eyes going slightly down at the outer edges.

He can change a lot, but there are some things he can't change like his fingerprints and DNA, Joe Scott. Yep, you're absolutely right. Those are unique to him, Nancy. And here's one other thing. I did a little digging. One of this weapon that they keep referring to that's the veterinarian euthanasia weapon, they believe might be what's referred to as a Station 6 brand weapon. My research revealed that there are essentially, I think, either four or five locations in the metro area of Atlanta where these can be specifically purchased.

And I think that if they believe that that's what this is and that he transported it, I think you're on the money here relative to getting on a bus with this thing. He may have picked it up down there at some point in time. And it's not a very efficient weapon for doing the task that he was trying to. to do. So I don't know. Maybe he was trying to, you know, he's not going to draw attention to himself like when you buy a suppressor separately from a weapon, perhaps. And it's not very efficient because you have to, you lose your sight picture every time you have to rotate that bolt on the back of that weapon, which is what he's doing. He's spinning it. I think that many of the answers that we're looking for are probably going to rest as well. And this is something that we

will hear a lot about, I believe, with United Health Care and their chief security officer, who was actually hired back in August of 2023. I want to know what she knows. I want to know what her assets know within that business. Are there letters that have been written? Are there lawsuits that have been filed relative to what Dr. Bethany mentioned about health care claims that may have been blown off or maybe they didn't receive what they wanted? But trust me, the security apparatus within that company that's going to be working on. Shine advertisement or no shine advertisement. I don't care how it happened, but it happened.

And I wonder how his widow and her two boys feel about this, seeing his face smiling in an advertisement. We wait as justice unfolds in this case. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an I-Heart podcast.