Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - SHOCK: 11 year-old drives car 24 hours to live with man he meets on Snapchat

Episode Date: September 27, 2019

An 11 year-old boy from Simpsonville, S.C. steals his brother's car and drives more than 200 miles to live with a man he met on Snapchat. With Nancy Grace today to discuss the dangers and divine intervention in this case: Savannah trial attorney Mark Tate, Victim/activist Alicia Kozakiewicz, Psychoanalyst Dr Bethany Marshall, former Federal prosecutor Francey Hakes, Forensics Expert, Karen Smith and Charleston ABC News 4 reporter Anne Emmerson. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Charleston police say an 11-year-old boy drove three hours by himself to try to meet up with a man he had met on Snapchat here in Charleston. Police found the boy after midnight Monday driving along Rutledge Avenue. When officers stopped him, he told them he had driven all the way from Simpsonville in the upstate and was lost. He then told police he took his brother's car and drove here to Charleston to live with an unknown man he had met on Snapchat. Police were able to contact the boy's father, who was in the process, he says,

of reporting his son missing from Simpsonville. The father then drove down here to Charleston to pick up the boy. Police have launched an investigation into the unknown man who police think may have lured the 11-year-old boy here. What? An 11-year-old little boy? My children are about to turn 12. They could no more drive a car than the man of the moon, although we have practiced in a field by the church in Macon. I will confess to that, but that's private property, so nobody try to arrest me. Driving hours on end based on a Google map search or Waze at night, and the worst part, I don't know what the worst part is, to meet a man he met on Snapchat and go live with him? I don't even know what to say for once.

For once, I'm speechless. What in the hay was he reported missing? Did anybody notice the car and the little boy were gone? Out of all those hours on the road, nobody noticed there's an 11-year-old on the road? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. You were just hearing our friend at WCSC.

That was Bill Sharp describing what happened. If you go to CrimeOnline.com, you can see the video. And I'm looking at it right now. An 11-year-old little boy all sunk down in the seat he can barely see over the steering wheel, driving on the highway three hours to go live with a man he meets on Snapchat. Okay, before I get any facts, let me just tell you who's joining us. Mark Tate, renowned Savannah trial lawyer, and also with me, victim, child victim turned survivor, Alicia Kozikevich, now strident activist. Dr. Bethany Marshall joining me from the heart of psychoanalysis.

And I'm not talking about Prague. I'm talking about Rodeo Drive. Boy, do they need to shrink, and so do we. Also with me, former federal prosecutor, first ever national coordinator for child exploitation prevention and interdiction. That's a mouthful. Francie Hakes is with me. And forensics expert, the founder of Bare Bones Consulting, Karen Smith.

Right now to Ann Emerson, our friend at ABC News 4 in Charleston. Ann, nobody noticed a boy was driving three straight hours on the highway? Nancy, this story just blew me away. When we saw the press release for the first time come across our desks, we just, I couldn't close my mouth for a while. It is the worst case scenario for so many reasons. What we did learn, though, was that this child had been reported missing 24 hours earlier on Sunday morning.

I've asked Simpsonville Police Department like three times, are you sure we have our days correct here? Sunday or Sunday morning, early morning, he was missing. 24 hours later, he shows up in Charleston. I don't understand it. Did nobody issue an Amber Alert? Exactly. That was my my question I wanted to ask you. Don't tell Mark Klass about that. You know how he is about issuing Amber Alerts. Oh, dear Lord in heaven. For those of you just joining us, take a listen to our friend. This is ABC News reporter Ann Emerson.

This is the intersection in downtown Charleston where an 11-year-old driver ended his three-hour trip from his home in Simpsonville, South Carolina, all the way down here to Charleston, where an 11-year-old driver ended his three-hour trip from his home in Simpsonville, South Carolina, all the way down here to Charleston to meet a man he says he met on Snapchat. Joining me in addition to Ann Emerson from ABC News for Charleston, my longtime friend, a woman I wish you could get to know as I have, Alicia Kozakevich. Alicia met as a child, you know, an insecure girl at school. I guess everybody's insecure in middle school and high school. Looking back, I guess I was too. Just nobody feels like they fit in. She met a friend online and her parents did everything right. It was a little girl. But then after a period of time, the little girl admitted he was a little boy. But they were already friends. It was only later

when she stepped out of her home to meet her friend, she was pulled into a car and kidnapped. Alicia Kozakiewicz, tell me the name of your website. It is alishakozak.com. So the shorter version of my name. K-O-V-A-K. And it is incredible. Guys, take a listen to our friend Sarah Dennett at News 3. As a 13-year-old, Alicia Kozakiewicz started to spend more time at her family's computer. The internet was becoming more mainstream.

And teens were logging on. HER FAMILY'S COMPUTER. THE INTERNET WAS BECOMING MORE MAINSTREAM... AND TEENS WERE LOGGING ON. SHE CREATED A SCREEN NAME AND STARTED GETTING INTRODUCED TO OTHER PEOPLE THROUGH FRIENDS. WHAT ALICIA DIDN'T KNOW WAS EXACTLY WHO SHE WAS TALKING TO. I THOUGHT IT WAS SOMEBODY AROUND MY OWN AGE. AND I DIDN'T THINK ANYTHING ELSE.

NOW PEOPLE GO HOW COULD YOU NOT KNOW? BUT I WAS A 13- YEAR-OLD. I WAS A 13-YEAR-OLD AND I WAS A 13-YEAR-OLD. I WAS A 13-YEAR-OLD. I WAS A 13-YEAR-OLD. I WAS A 13-YEAR-OLD. I WAS A 13-YEAR-OLD.

I WAS A 13-YEAR-OLD. I WAS A 13-YEAR-OLD. I WAS A 13-YEAR-OLD. I WAS A 13-YEAR-OLD. I WAS A 13-YEAR-OLD. I WAS A 13-YEAR-EOPLE GO HOW COULD YOU NOT KNOW? BUT I WAS A 13 YEAR OLD KID. 13 YEAR OLD KIDS THINK THEY KNOW EVERYTHING." THAT FRIEND TURNED OUT TO BE 38-YEAR-OLD SCOTT TYREE, A

COMPUTER PROGRAMMER FROM VIRGINIA. AND AFTER MONTHS OF GROOMING ALICIA, HE TOOK A TRIP TO HER HOME IN PENNSYLVANIA. WHAT SHE DOES REMEMBER IS SLIPPING OUT INTO THE BITTER COLD JANUARY NIGHT. ALICIA, 38-YEAR-OLD,

COMPETITOR, VIRGINIA COMPETITOR, VIRGINIA COMPETITOR, VIRGINIA COMPETITOR, VIRGINIA COMPETITOR, VIRGINIA COMPETITOR, VIRGINIA COMPETITOR, VIRGINIA COMPETITOR, VIRGINIA COMPETITOR, VIRGINIA COMPETITOR, VIRGINIA COMPETITOR, VIRGINIA ALICIA, HE TOOK A TRIP TO HER HOME IN PENNSYLVANIA. WHAT SHE DOES REMEMBER IS SLIPPING OUT INTO THE BITTER COLD JANUARY NIGHT.

My intuition had said, Alicia, you need to go home. This is really dangerous. What are you doing? And I went to turn around and I heard my name being called. And next thing I knew, I was in a car. And this man was squeezing my hand so tightly. And next thing I knew, I was in a car. And this man was squeezing my hand so tightly.

And he was barking commands at me. Be good. Be quiet. The trunk's cleaned out for you. And then he explained to her that he had made a very comfy place for her in the trunk. What she may not have known is that his screen name was Master for Teen Slave Girls. After days and days and days of the worst type of abuse, the time came when Alicia thought she would be killed that evening.

Alicia, I was reliving your story as I was working on my book. What do you have to say to parents right now? This child, this little 11-year-old boy was on Snapchat and drove three hours to meet a man he met there to go live with him. It's horrible. My heart goes out to this little boy, and I'm actually really glad that we don't know his name, because that means that he will be able to move on from this more easily and get the help that he needs. But this young boy, this child, this baby, he was certainly groomed

by somebody. Somebody was convincing him that he should take these incredibly dangerous illegal steps to drive 300 miles and to live with this person. This child was in so much danger, and I'm so glad that he pulled over to ask the cop for directions. And the fact that he did that shows how innocent he is and how he doesn't see himself as even really doing anything wrong, that he didn't have a grasp on this at all. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace So every time I tried to write this, it sounded melodramatic. So I decided to stick to the facts. When Michael Wasilowski and I started corresponding, I was 15 years old, about to turn 16, and vulnerable. I was physically unable to process the gravity of our conversation, and he manipulated me heavily, taking advantage of my mental illness to push me closer

to his desires. I backed out twice, and he berated me, pushing me to commit to him and his idea of a life for me. The second I left my home, my life was ruined. The first week Wysocki had me in his home, he did unimaginable things to me and irreparably broke my spirit and sense of self. This abuse proceeded for 56 weeks. I developed severe OCD about a month after Weisselowski was released on bond, an escalation from a previous minor disorder. I checked locks excessively, counted steps, tiles, items, and numbers, and classified everything and everyone I knew into safe and unsafe classifications, hoping he would not hurt me again.

It took me over a year to partially recover from severe eating disorder habits directly related to his starving me and refusing me food, which went hand in hand with my OCD. You are hearing the heartbreaking victim impact statement of a little girl who was lured online, kidnapped, and held as a sex slave for 56 weeks. That was Haley Burns, who has spoken at length. I visited a long time with her parents. They had no idea what was going on. To Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us, you know, at first blush when you read this story,

like the banner on crimeonline.com, little boy 11 drives three hours to live with man you met on Snapchat, says police. Okay, that barely scratches the surface of what went on here, Dr. Bethany. It barely scratches the surface because when you first read it or our listeners hearing the story, we see it from an adult perspective at first. Like, why would 11-year-old little boy run away? Why would he want to live with a man? But when you think of it from the child's perspective, this is a little boy who has placed his trust in the adults around him. So the man who approaches him online is going to exploit his childlike nature. And as our guest said, groom him for a long, long time.

And living with a man does not have the same adult meanings it has for you and me. It means maybe the man said, I'll give you lots of candy. You can eat cake every day. We'll go to Disneyland. I'll take you to do fun things. But underneath the surface, this little boy bonded with this man. This little boy believed he could get into a car. He drove down the freeway at great risk to himself. He imagined he could have a whole new life with a whole new family. And this little boy, I think, thank God he was not actually abducted by the man. As our guest said, you know, he was innocent enough to approach a police officer and admit that he was lost. But just the fact that he allowed himself to be lured is going to be traumatizing in and of itself. He's going to need a lot of help to recover from this.

Poor little guy, as Alicia Kozikevich was telling us, he doesn't even realize he's done anything wrong. He was so innocent, and that really broke my heart when you said that, Alicia. He didn't even realize when he pulled up to a cop and asked for directions. To Francie Hakes, former federal prosecutor, first ever national coordinator for child exploitation, prevention, and interdiction. Francie, what are the cold, hard facts about online luring? You know, Nancy, this story is so distressing,

but what's really distressing is the point that you guys have already made, you and Alicia have already made. If you look at the bookend here, if you look at Alicia's story of survival, all the way to now, to this child's determination to use Snapchat, to find a friend, and to drive 200 miles to be with that person, what it says to me is we are failing we law enforcement we officials we experts we're failing man you're not kidding francie you are not kidding i've got so many notes i don't even have paper where's the amber alert nobody said that notice the car was gone with the tag because i read by the hour every day. I go to bed at midnight.

I get up at 5 and start reading again about missing children. I never heard about this child missing. No, but Nancy, it's worse than that. Of course, that's a primary factor here. But it's worse than that. Why is the child on Snapchat? Why aren't his parents monitoring his phone? I, and I know Alicia, I've been shouting from the rooftops for years that if you as a parent are not checking your child's phone, if you don't know what your child is doing online, you are failing your children.

And we as professionals, teachers, educators, we have to be constantly hammering that parents need to understand what their children are doing on social media. It's part of the responsibility. You know, if your child is sneaking out in the neighborhood and smoking and drinking, most parents have sort of accounted for that a long time ago, putting in alarm systems or making sure they know where their children are at all hours of the day or night. Now you've got intruders in the home. If someone was sneaking into your child's bedroom window, you'd probably know it. Well, that's exactly what's happening here. They're sneaking into your house to lure your children out.

They're just doing it digitally. You know what? I feel like I've seen it all, but when I hear Francie Hakes and Alicia Kozikevich talking, I actually get scared. To Karen Smith, forensics expert, founder of Beer Bones Consulting, joining me out of the Florida jurisdiction. Karen, this is going to be a tough case to prove, but can it be proven digitally? Hey, wait, wait, wait, wait. Let me ask you this. Let's just start with Snapchat because you know

I get in front of the twins and go, give me your phone. And if they argue with me, then I tell them to their face, there must be something wrong if you don't want mommy to look at your phone um and usually they don't want me to look because they're in the middle of making a tiktok you know what a tiktok is no I don't know wait it's Karen Smith you don't know what a tiktok is I have no idea well let me teach you it's you'll learn soon enough uh when you join my joy and have twins listen it's like when you go and you fancy it's when children can go onto tiktok app and they make their own video and they last like 10 to 20 seconds and they can do effects and And, you know, they work on them. They create little videos and they can put them online. And other people can, you can look at other people's, if you know their name and their handle.

But what I don't get, Francie, if Karen does not know about TikTok, I'm going to go to you, Francie, on this one. How do you check somebody's Snapchat? Well, you know, Nancy, that's a great question. There are apps out there and all you have to do is look them up. There are apps out there that allow you to monitor Snapchat. It's one of the things I talk to kids about all the time. They use Snapchat because they think that these images that they're sharing or the messages disappear, but they don't. They're always present on the Snapchat servers. And there is software you can put on your phone to capture, hold, and preserve whatever someone else is sending you on Snapchat. So as a parent, you can do the same thing. And like I said earlier, you're crazy

if you're not up to date on TikTok or any other app that your child is using. And parents are just, you know, I think we're behind. We get old, Nancy, and we're not paying attention anymore. We don't understand the apps. We don't know what they're doing. And there's constantly a new app that all the kids know about that they don't want the adults to know about. You know, I hate to say this on broadcast, but Facebook, for example,

once all of us parents and adults got on Facebook, the kids jumped off. Now they use other things like TikTok. Alicia Kozakiewicz wants in. Jump in, Alicia. Yeah, so speaking to that point about monitoring your children, parents often, I get feedback from parents sometimes that they're saying, oh, that's an evasion of privacy. And I get that. I get that you may discover things about your children safe. And it's not to catch them in something. So if you found out that your child went to a party and they weren't supposed to, or they tried a cigarette or whatever things that kids do, it's not about catching them in those things and punishing

them for those things. It's about finding out when things go really wrong, if your child is being cyberbullied, if they're being groomed, if they're being sexually exploited, that you can be ahead of it or that if something does go truly wrong, you have a blueprint of what happened and possibly a roadmap to where they are. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Good news tonight. That boy is back safe with his family. This is very much a joint operation here at Simpsonville Police and Charleston Police. With a central question tonight, who was that boy talking to? You are looking here at exclusive video. police officer. He was walking around the area. He was walking around the area with a police with a central

question tonight. Who was that boy talking to you are looking here at exclusive video. This is where a Charleston police officer talking with that boy. It happened around 12 30 this morning. The boy was alone and told the officer he was lost.

He said he was on his way to live with a man he met through Snapchat. Plug the address in on a tablet but lost the GPS signal somewhere along the way. Police tonight are describing the man as unknown. You have somebody who's chatting with an 11-year-old about traveling so we're very cautious about wanting to make sure children are safe on the internet. The investigator tells us he's been in touch with the boy's family. He says at this point they do seem to be in good spirits. He didn't want to speculate on any potential charges for the person at the other end of that Snapchat. Well, I want to. You're just hearing from our friend at WYFF, that was Taggart Houck, an 11-year-old little boy driving three hours to, quote, live with the man he meets on Snapchat. This little boy, all alone, three hours away from home, in his attempt to live with the guy he meets online.

Now, randomly, and you can see the video at CrimeOnline.com, you see the car, it looks like nobody's driving it. It's a ghost car. The little boy pulls randomly into a restaurant parking lot, and there happens to be, and I completely believe this was divine intervention from heaven, in that parking lot was a cop car. Charleston officer Christopher Braun. It was about 1.30 in the morning. Braun, sitting in his police cruiser, noticed just a little boy behind the wheel in the vehicle

the little boy tells the cop he got lost on his way to go live with a stranger who befriended him on snapchat this child lived over 200 miles away from where he was found. He told Braun he took his brother's car and drove to Charleston to live with an unknown male. And that's according to a police spokesperson. Now, his dad's insignia tablet lost the GPS signal that was directing him to the address of the unknown man. So they've got to know who the unknown man is because the address is on the tablet. And that little boy didn't divine that from his crazy eight ball. He had to be told that address. He loses the GPS signal.

Can you imagine out on the road? He's been gone now. I forgot how long, how many hours, Ann Emerson, ABC News for Charleston. Had this child been on the road when he lost the signal, Ann? You know, we're being told that he could have been on the road for 24 hours. We don't know how long he just kept on driving. But, you know, he was on however much gas he had in the car, Nancy. But, you know, the kudos to the officer for being able to keep that whole situation under control as this child without sort of freaking out and being like, there's an

11-year-old driving the car. He obviously was a child, but he treated him with so much respect. You can see it in the video, how he gets out and shakes hands with the little boy. I guess they're having sort of an introduction and have a minute to talk. And arguably, the chief even says, the police chief told me right after this happened, they really got in front of this because they really wanted parents to have an opportunity to talk to their children about this scenario. But arguably, this officer saved this child's life. And it really speaks to what we need to, this is an unbelievable opportunity that came out with the best possible scenario after what this child had already done, had already been on the road, all of the risks that had already happened,

to learn something right now. Well, I don't understand, Ann Emerson, ABC News for Charleston, because what I'm understanding is that the father was, quote, in the process of reporting him missing. I know. Had he not been reported missing? According to dispatch, this child had been reported missing at 1 20 on Sunday morning. Almost 24 hours later, that is when the Charleston

police reported this child had been found. So there seems to be a huge... Wait, wait, wait, hold on. I feel like I'm drinking from the fire hydrant. Ann Emerson with me with all the facts from ABC News for Charleston. Karen Smith, forensics expert, Beer Bones Consulting. If he had his dad's tablet, can't you do Find My iPad or Find My Tablet? Absolutely. Yeah. If there's an app on your phone, like we have Find My Phone. Most people have iPhones now.

Find My Phone. Yes, you can trace that. There's also a thing on Snapchat called snap maps, Nancy. I did not know this, but it's a way that people can trace you in real time. So if he had Snapchat on that tablet, I'm not sure how the police would go in and find that metadata inside that tablet, but they can trace where that child went and hopefully also find the address of this predator that was finding this little boy and luring him to his house. And Francie Hanks, former federal prosecutor, isn't it true? Well, I'm not sure with Snapchat. Can you pull up the dialogue, what they were saying to each other,

or am I going to have to rely on what the little boy can remember? Nancy, that's a great point, and I really sincerely hope the FBI is involved here because they can certainly serve process on Snapchat, get that information from the Snapchat servers. It's a dirty little secret that kids don't know is that that material is stored on the Snapchat servers, and also importantly here, Nancy, if the FBI gets involved and we have a federal prosecution of this man, you're looking at very serious jail time for luring a child like this over the Internet. He faces a possible penalty of a 10-year mandatory minimum federal prison sentence. So I sincerely hope the FBI is involved already.

Joining me right now, veteran trial lawyer out of the Savannah jurisdiction. You know his name very well if you are in the trial world. Mark Tate joining me. Mark Tate, no offense, but how do you do it? I mean, how would you defend a case like this? Well, I think it's in terms of luring a minor for an illicit purpose it's indefensible uh i think however that uh there might need to be a department of family and human services uh investigation into how this child could be so negligently supervised the parents have a duty to their minor wait wait wait you wait, wait. You're blaming the parent? You're blaming the parents? Well, I have to tell you, Mark Tate, as much as I want to fight with you,

how do you just notice at 1.20 a.m. your child is gone? I don't know, though. Let me think this through. My husband goes into, like, a deep sleep state at about 9 p.m. I mean, he can fall asleep sitting straight up. Of course, we do get up sometimes at 430 in the morning.

But so I know he's tired. I'm awake. It's an 11. But he goes straight to sleep. Sure. This is an 11 year old. You know, maybe this dad did that. He gets up in the middle of the night, go to the bathroom, and then he notices his son's gone.

Maybe that's how it happened. Right. And we're always so. I don't know the story there. But of course, Mark Tate, I knew you'd blame the parents. What about your potential client, the guy that lured him on Snapchat? What about him? Thank you. I think that that person would be somebody that I would rather look into allowing the criminal authorities to charging. And I would like, rather than becoming involved in defending this brother on behalf of the family,

file a lawsuit against him for illegally luring their child. And I think he has civil liability for that as well as criminal liability. Civil liability? My rear end, this dude's going to jail, Markay. Oh, absolutely he's going to jail, 100%. But there are many cases, many right here in Savannah, Georgia, where the criminal justice system, while being as effective as they could, failed to get jail time against people, men that I know personally, because I sued them when they have raped 13-year-old girls

and guys have walked with zero jail time because of the DA's fear of proving a number of things. Whereas I sued that man and that man support and they paid me over a million dollars. Look at my arm. Jackie, look at my arm. When he said get off,

walk free after raping a 13-year-old child, look at the chill bumps going up my arm. You know what? I'm leaving this studio. I'm going to go check on the twins right now because Mark Tate has just scared me out of my skin. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Charleston police have now reunited an 11-year-old boy from Simpsonville with his family after the boy drove 200 miles throughout the night. Police say that the boy was going out to the coast to meet a man he met on Snapchat.

Around midnight, the boy pulled up alongside an officer and told him that he had just driven three hours and he was lost because his GPS signal didn't work. That's our friend at WLTX anchor Darcy Strickland speaking and with us from ABC News for Charleston, Ann Emerson. But first to Alicia Kozikevich. Alicia, tell me how an innocent child, you were were just 13 my children are about to turn 12 and our big decision is is lucy really going to get her ears pierced i've tried to scare her away for 12 years talking about oozing infections and anything i could but i think the time has come and that's our big question okay and john davis big question is for his birthday are they going to go to a trampoline house and are they going to have pizza or hot dogs that's what they should be worried about but instead you had to worry about a predator and this child unwittingly

has been exposed to a predator how does a child get lulled into taking their brother's car and driving 12 hours in the dark to go live with a man on Snapchat? Children are naive and it's easy to dupe a child and really the whole goal is pretending to be a child's friend and most children have some level of insecurity. I had all the love in the world with my parents, and yet I still at times felt alone. And at some point in time, every child is vulnerable. And when it comes to making decisions, children's brains aren't developed to make those sort of decisions. and they are at high risk and low impulse control and sometimes make mistakes but an adult should never take advantage of

or exploit those mistakes and it's it's so sad that this has happened yes also alicia you know dr bethany marshall i think it's like and i'm gonna get francy to weigh in on this too francy hakes bethany it's like putting your toe in the hot water it's okay and you get used to it suddenly you realize you're boiling and i think predators lure a child like they did when I was prosecuting not over the internet but I remember one little boy loved arcades and he met this guy at an arcade and the guy would slip him a quarter then suddenly he was anally sodomizing him at his home for a roll of quarters and his mom had no idea what was happening until she found a $10 bill in a little boy's pocket and did not know

where that came from. Same thing online. It's bit by bit, quarter by quarter, then a roll of quarters. Next thing you know, you've been molested. Nancy, you're absolutely correct. First of all, children become attached. It's a part of our survival system. When they meet another person who befriends them and makes them feel special, they will attach to that person if they're psychologically healthy. Secondly, when the child begins to betray their own parents by telling secrets and the perpetrator says, oh, I'm sure your parents didn't understand you about this or that, the child gets drawn in and ensnared and then begins to feel guilty and blame himself or herself. The child places a certain amount of authority on the perpetrator. The child is lulled into a sense that this perpetrator is going to be okay and is going to be on their side. I think what parents need to have is an imaginative capacity to

understand what can happen online. If you were sitting in a park watching your child play on the playground, some stranger came up and started to be befriending them, someone with an inappropriate age gap started to become authoritative over your child, you would walk up and intervene right away. Well, let me just say, Dr. Bethany, I would have his DNA under my fingernails. There's just no doubt about that, Bethany. Absolutely. Absolutely. So just because you can't see it does not mean it's not happening. We know that predators congregate around schools, bus stops, at churches. They become choir directors. They become teachers. They also go online. It's just that we, what Anisha is doing is she's painting a picture for all of us.

Francie Hakes, help me out. I don't understand so much about this. And you're right. Snapchat servers are designed to automatically delete messages sent in one-on-one chat after both Snapchatters have opened and left the chat. You can save the chat by pressing and holding it. But according to you, it's also kept on the server. It's never really deleted. But, Francie, how did nobody notice him driving 12 hours? He's 11 years old. Yeah, Nancy, that's a great question, and it's hard to understand. It's always hard to understand when looking back at these crimes how they took place. Why did the child feel the need to leave his home in the

middle of the night? Why is he so desperate or so hopeful that he steals his family car at 11 when he certainly knows he's not old enough or able to drive and drive 200 miles to meet this man? And you have to assume that Alicia is correct. And I'm sure in the days and weeks ahead, we'll learn more. But this predator was diabolically clever, as many of these people are. Those who have a sexual interest in children, they have a preferential sexual interest in children. They think and fantasize about how they're going to get access to it. And they're adults. They're smart, they're clever, and they're going to get access to it. And they're adults, they're smart, they're clever, and they're

motivated. And so they know exactly what to do or say. They study children. They spend time in the same place that children spend time in playing games that they play, learning the interests of children in their age of sexual interest. And so they know exactly what to say to lure an 11 year old out of his house. This person was so clever, which in my mind makes him infinitely more dangerous than the idiot who might stand around on the playground and be spotted by a parent. This guy is so much more dangerous because of his heightened cleverness and his ability to lure a child like this. It is frightening. Parents should be scared. And I hope they're all having conversations with their kids today. Well, I've got a question. Mark Tate, veteran trial lawyer out of the Savannah

jurisdiction. I think what's going to happen is the defense lawyer is not going to say anything until they see what the state's evidence is. Because if they commit to a defense, like, he's never met this kid, he knows nothing, and then it shows his computer, they're having conversations, I mean, a conversation may not be enough to convict him. It may not be. You're exactly right. And, you know, while this scares criminal defendants or even people under investigation, I always tell my clients that you don't need to talk to the police.

And you have a right against self-incrimination and you should exercise that right. And yeah, the police are probably going to go ahead and arrest you when you do that, because they already know the answers or believe they do to the questions you're trying to ask you. But you're just going to have to kind of listen to the advice and do not talk to the police. And just because you don't commence talking to them when they want you to does not mean that you can't come back and decide to talk to them. And like I said, you're under no obligation to talk to the police. And a good criminal defense lawyer will tell this reprobate that. And then that way you're not incriminating yourself. But there's another factor that you got

to keep in mind. You don't have to talk to them. But if you make the mistake without a lawyer and do speak with them, then you cannot lie. And if you lie to them, in addition to the underlying serious crimes, you're also going to get charged with obstruction. And so and they're very keen on that. And as your former federal prosecutor pointed out, you know, the FBI is going to be involved in this, and they are really the elite of our on-the-ground federal prosecution, and they already know the answers to the questions they want you to provide answers to. Well, speaking of already knowing the answers to the questions, Alicia Kozakiewicz with me, child victim, survivor, now crusader. Alicia, when you went out of your home after that wonderful holiday meal with your family, you go outside, you told me you had an inkling, this is dangerous. And then suddenly it was too late. When did you realize, like this little boy would have realized, I'm in big trouble?

For me, my intuition spoke up. Once I was away from the technology, away from just that quiet moment standing outside, I heard this little voice saying, go home, turn around, this is dangerous. And when I did, it was too late. And the moment I knew it was absolutely too late was the second I was in that car, I knew I was no longer in control of my life. And that every second counted and everything that I did would matter to get to that next second. Alicia, with me, Alicia Kozakiewicz. Alicia, for those listeners that have not heard your story, please explain what happened to you and what could have happened to

this little boy. I met somebody online who I thought was a friend. And this was really before there was, there were any stories like mine to go off of. There was no internet safety education. There wasn't anything for my parents to talk about other than stranger danger. So I didn't have that knowledge that we have today, but I stepped outside to meet the person who had groomed me for about nine months. And I thought this person was my friend and he kidnapped me and he took me from my Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania home to Virginia and held me captive in his basement dungeon. And I was raped and beaten and tortured and kept chained to the floor. Miraculously, I was rescued because he was live streaming what he was doing to me to other people online.

And somebody was able to recognize my face in the missing poster as the little girl in this horrendous video, put that together and called law enforcement. And I'm just I'm so lucky to be here. And with that second chance at life, I've devoted my my existence, my life to keeping other children safe. I started speaking out when I was 14. And it's so awful that these stories are still happening. I knew back then that it would get worse. Back in those times, it was my space and there was barely Wi-Fi and you were attached to your computer at home. But now the predator has access to your child 24-7, so you have to be so much more vigilant, and children have to know to protect themselves too. Parents have to educate themselves, and kids have to be educated on how to stay safe, and then also kids need to know that they can go

to their parents for help without fear of punishment or having their device taken away, that it is about staying safe, that kids have that comfort and that ability to go to a trusted adult in real life, so a parent or a guardian, that they can go to for help. But we have to have these conversations. Yes, it's an uncomfortable conversation, but we already have so many uncomfortable conversations with children. This is just another one. Kids need to know what to protect themselves from

because what you don't know can hurt you. And then you know about it. Alicia, when you tell me that story, it never fails to frighten me as a mom. We have bark and I am not a paid spokesperson in any sense, but I looked at all the alternatives and I just picked bark because I didn't know what I was doing and I like it it alerts me on my phone every time an ugly word even if it's just simply d-a-m-n pops up anything about hit punch kick afraid cut anything like that even if it's in a song that they're that they've heard or downloaded, I get an alert. And then I go and I look at it and I see what it is. So far, it's been very innocent and benign. And I pray to God it stays that way.

Ann Emerson, ABC News for Charleston. Where does the case stand now? Well, right now, what we're hearing right now is that they have a the Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force. This is what I sort of gleaned from yesterday from the state attorney general's office here in South Carolina. They are involved. It's called ICAC. They're involved because they had to tell me that because I wanted to interview them about just talking about it yesterday. And they basically had to decline because they're part of the investigation now. So we know now that we've got that task force working on that. I've also been in touch with the FBI as well. And I haven't been able to confirm yet their involvement, but I would be shocked if they weren't. So that's where we think it's going right now. We've talked about, you know, to both sides of the police departments about this case. Um, we know that they're investigating it and boy, they're keeping their cards close to their chest right now.

Um, they even had the lead investigator for Charleston in the room as I was interviewing the police chief because they did not want one thing to come out about that would that may tip this guy off that he was found out um or that there may be that the suspect could uh slip away from them so they were like we that made me think they are close i mean that just is my gut i could be wrong and i don't think, though, because I think there's just too many virtual clues on this guy. Well, Ann Emerson, if this little boy could find the guy's house 200 plus miles away, I believe police can, too. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend.

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