Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - SHOCK as FEMALE STAFFER ARRESTED in gory murder of gorgeous AR Senator

Episode Date: June 18, 2019

Former Arkansas State Senator, Linda Collins-Smith, found shot dead at her home. Police make a shocking arrest --a close female friendANDThe police make a shocking discovery in a storage unit in Denver. The body of 7-year-old Caden McWilliams, found encased in concrete in an animal carrier. His family had not even reported the boy missing.Nancy's Expert Panel Weighs in:Karen Smith:  Forensics ExpertDarryl Cohen: Criminal Defense AttorneyAshley Kelly:  Licensed Clinical Social WorkerDr. Michelle Dupre:   Medical ExaminerDavid Mack:   Syndicated Radio Host Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. On Tuesday, June the 4th, 2019, the dead body of a female was discovered that the residence of former Arkansas State Senator Linda Collins-Smith. The condition of the body prevented any immediate positive identification. The Randolph County Sheriff's Office responded to the scene at around 5.45 p.m. and immediately began securing the crime scene. The Arkansas State Police Criminal Investigation Division

was dispatched to the scene along with forensic examiners from the Arkansas State Crime Lab in Little Rock. The body has been sent for an autopsy to determine the positive identification and cause of death. What happened? An absolutely gorgeous Arkansas state senator body found shot dead and wrapped in a blanket outside her home to top it all off her husband her ex-husband a judge I'm Nancy Grace this is crime stories thank you for being with us what in the hay happened to Arkansas State Senator Linda Collins. With me, an all-star panel, Dave Mack, Dr. Michelle Dupree, Ashley Kelly, and Daryl Cohen. First to you, syndicated talk show host Dave Mack. Dave Mack, what happened for an Arkansas State Senator to be found dead and wrapped in a blanket? Let's just start with how her body was found.

About a day or two before her body was found, neighbors heard gunshots, okay? When her body was found, when they went on a welfare check, they found her deceased body wrapped in a blanket. And apparently it was, you know, hot and everything else, so you've got decomposition. That's why they couldn't even determine quickly what had happened. Ooh, okay. You know, to Dr. Michelle Dupree,

renowned medical examiner out of South Carolina and author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide, how badly does it hurt an investigation when the body is left in hot weather? Well, Nancy, of course, hotter weather makes the body decompose faster. And of course, if there's any injuries, the body will decompose out of injuries even more fast. So it can be very difficult to determine who that is. You know, I know it's harsh to think of it this way, but think about a piece of fruit that you let sit there and decompose. The warmer the weather, the more rapidly the fruit decomposes. Same thing with a human body. Take a listen to

this from our friends at THV 11. This is Jordan Howington. Deputies joined by Arkansas State Police's criminal investigation team. A sea of investigators spotted combing through the former state senator's property. Neighbors living around the crime scene chose not to go on camera because they said they're scared to speak out, but they said this whole ordeal is like a mystery. Colin Smith's home, located right off Highway 90

in the Edgewood neighborhood, one that people here told us off camera is typically quiet. You can see the vehicles behind the crime scene tape. Neighbors told us the red truck belongs to the former senator. That's the vehicle she was spotted driving in about two weeks ago.

And the others, we are told, belong to her father and son. As investigators arrived, neighbors said those vehicles were left on the property. The body found outside the home has since been taken to the state crime lab. The condition of the body prevented any immediate positive identification. There, they'll determine the cause of death. Wow. Okay. Back to Dr. Michelle Dupree, medical examiner from South Carolina.

Dr. Dupree, they could not even identify the body. It had decomposed so much. But come on. It's wrapped in a piece of carpet, it's outside her home and she's missing. I mean, how could it have decomposed so rapidly? They can't even identify it. Well, Nancy, that very well may be because of the injuries and where the injuries are. Injuries will decompose a lot faster than the normal intact skin or tissue.

So I suspect that this is partly due to the injury. So bottom line, what they're saying is they can't look at her face and identify her. Okay. That means her face was either so badly injured, say from a gunshot wound or bludgeoning. They can't make a facial recognition identification. Daryl Cohen, criminal defense attorney joining me out of Atlanta. You can find him at DarylCohen.tv. Daryl, that's every murderer's dream for the body to go, you know, unfound for the longer the better. Delay, delay, delay is a

defendant's friend. And then the body's so decomposed, you can't make an ID. Why does that cause murder perps to dance up and down the halls of the courthouse? Well, they dance because if you can't determine the cause of death, if you can't even determine who it is that was killed without DNA, they're dancing because the more time, the less evidence, the more likely a defendant is going to be acquitted. And in this instance, what do we have? We have a recently killed person wrapped up, decomposing. And how do we put a perp there? How do we put a person of interest there? How do we find the defendant to prosecute? The police have to do a lot of work, a lot of investigative techniques that they don't like to do.

So from a defense strategy, this is, you know, a jackpot. They can't identify her body. Days and days and days pass before the body's found. To Dave Mack, joining me, syndicated talk show host. So she, the Arkansas state senator, apparently goes missing. She served in the legislature. She was found dead outside her home there in Pocahontas. That's about 130 miles northeast of Little Rock, Arkansas. Now, authorities have released very few details about her murder, but we know it's a

murder because why else would she be wrapped up in a carpet? They're releasing very few details about how she was killed, but apparently it was a gunshot wound. And Dave Mack, I'm deducing that since they can't make a facial recognition ID, she was shot in the face? You kind of have to assume that. We don't even know exactly what day she was killed. We only know that her last post was on May 28th, and then nothing else was heard from her. And when police went to check, that's when they discovered her. And that was at least a day or two after neighbors reported hearing gunshots. To add to the mystery, a judge agrees to

seal all the records, all the documents, so we can't find out exactly what police know. But I do know this. Take a listen to sound victim, Arkansas State Senator Linda Collins. This is from Ashley Kurtz at KARK-TV. I am here with Senator Linda Collins-Smith, and you know what it's like to be on the receiving end. This is your community. How are folks holding up right now? You know, I know that a lot of folks are tired, and of course, for the folks that are coming back into their homes and having to clean up, they are tired, but I know that they have to do this. And so they're out here, they're getting some help. Maybe, you know, hopefully there's volunteers coming to help clean up after the disaster, getting over here and their hearts are broken. They're tired. They did this in 2011 to have to be doing it again. And so I have had a home burn

to the ground and whether you have nothing and, you know, we were home, we didn't even have shoes on that day. So I know that for these people, I just want to thank all of you for turning out in the host state, the community, turning out to help these people by donating, you know, being generous and giving to them. You are hearing the Arkansas State Senator Linda Collins so worried about her constituents, so worried about the people around her. But who's here to worry about her now? She is found, we believe, shot dead by a gunshot wound to the face, her body decomposing, wrapped up in carpet outside her home. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. With the Arkansas State Police Criminal Investigation Division

and the Randolph County Sheriff's Department, in coordination with the 3rd Judicial District Prosecuting Attorney's Office, have arrested one person in connection with the homicide of former Arkansas State Senator Linda Collins-Smith. 48-year-old Rebecca Lynn O'Donnell is in custody in connection to that investigation. Sheriff Kevin Bell told us she was arrested around 4 o'clock today. That was just about an hour before the press conference tonight. Criminal charges are pending and we are still waiting to confirm details

about why exactly she's being considered a suspect, but Sheriff Bell says they cannot disclose any more information. Right now, the investigation is presently at a critical juncture and no further information will be released at this time until we are confident that it will not compromise the integrity of the criminal investigation.

We're also learning more about the arrest. Like Shelby said, O'Donnell was arrested just before 4 this afternoon during a traffic stop on Highway 62. Bell was the one who arrested O'Donnell. You are hearing some of the latest, the mysterious circumstances around the death of former Arkansas State Senator Linda Collins, and now we are learning that a female staffer is suspected in the murder. They say the female staffer was pulled over because of a traffic stop. Okay, you know what? They did the same thing with Timothy McVeigh, the OKCity bomber. I mean, it happens so often that a simple traffic stop yields incredible results. Same thing in Israel Keys, the serial killer that killed the Alaska barista, the young teen girl, Samantha Koenig.

He was pulled over, I think, in Texas for a taillight or some other traffic incident, and the whole thing blew wide open. In this case, this female staffer pulled over with a traffic violation and then charged with murder. Take a listen to our friend Marty Gonzalez at ABC News. This morning, new insight into the connection between a former Arkansas state senator killed at her home and her former campaign staffer arrested in connection. It comes as a shock. Linda Collins-Smith was found shot to death on June 4th. Days later, Rebecca Lynn O'Donnell updated

her Facebook profile picture to this smiling image of them together. Then Friday, without explanation, police took O'Donnell into custody. The investigation is presently at a critical juncture, and no further information will be released at this time. ABC News station KAIT reporting that O'Donnell recently appeared as a corroborating witness in Colin Smith's divorce case, and we're told the two were good friends. They were all fighters for the Second Amendment, and, you'd see them at events, travel together. This weekend, family, friends and colleagues gathered for Colin Smith's funeral, remembering her as a loving mother and tough legislator. And police

still aren't saying anything about a possible motive or when charges may be filed. I don't get it. A former female staffer of this Arkansas state senator is now suspected in her murder, her gunshot wound to the face to syndicated talk show host Dave Mack. What is the evidence they have against the staffer, a friend? They're not saying, Nancy. They're playing this so close to the vest. All we know is that apparently Becky O'Donnell was very, very close to Linda Collins. The part that made me sick was six days after her body was discovered, this Becky O'Donnell posts a picture of the two of them to her Facebook page. And it's the two of them hugging and smiling. So all I can think of is that case years ago of Selena, the singer, and her friend who managed her clothing store and was her fan club president shooting her. That's all I can think of. I can't even get past anything else, and the police aren't helping by

giving us any information. Well, we know that Linda Collins, who formerly went by Collins Smith, and O'Donnell, the woman now suspected in her murder, her former friend slash staffer, were friends. And O'Donnell had helped Collins with her most recent campaign and had even been high up in the campaign at the highest echelons of the campaign. You know, Daryl Cohen, when you have a friend-on-friend murder, what could be a possible motive? M-A-L-E. My view is when things come out, we're going to find out there was a man involved and that she was mad. She shot her in the face because she couldn't stand to see her anymore. And she was going to get mad and get even. I think we'll find that that's what could be part of it.

A man? You know, Daryl Cohen, I find that so interesting that you, a man, think that men are so irresistible that a friend would shoot another friend in the face to get a, I believe you said, M-A-L-E? Really? Is that your experience with women, that they pull guns and knives and beat each other to be with you? No, I wish somebody would, but the answer is no. I feel in this instance, it smells to me very much like a soap opera that they were friends. They had an argument. If they have an argument over losing a campaign, not going to happen. They have an argument over a dress,

not going to happen. If they have an argument over mail and they're both interested very much in this mail, I think very easily it could happen. What about it? Joining me, Ashley Kelly, licensed clinical social worker. Any number of things, maybe one uncovered financial wrongdoing in the campaign. Maybe one of the other. Maybe one found something incriminating of the other. Maybe it was a heat of passion, an argument. Maybe like in Selena, possibly the staffer had a crush on Linda Collins that was not returned. It could be a number of factors. Sure.

And without knowing this good friend's mental health background, she could have an undiagnosed personality disorder that showed its ugly face. In a heat of passion, it could have been a lot of different things. It's hard to say without that information. So right now, we don't know the motive, but what do we know at all about about any evidence police have to arrest the friend slash campaign worker. What do we know, if anything, at this early juncture, Dave Mack? Nancy, all we know is that police were called for a welfare check and been tracking it back. Two days before her body was discovered, neighbors said they heard gunshots.

We have an ongoing relationship between Rebecca Lynn O'Donnell, known as Becky, and Ms. Collins, so we know they had a very close bond and that they'd been together for many, many years as friends. Police are not releasing any evidence whatsoever on what directly ties Becky to the murder of Ms. Collins. Joining me, Karen Smith, forensics expert, founder of Beer Bones Consulting. Karen, weigh in. At this point, you know, if it was a gunshot wound, hopefully they have a projectile or possibly a casing if a semi-automatic was used. They can trace that back to a gun if they find one. If Rebecca had a gun registered to her and they can

trace that back, that might be one way. Also, you know, I'm sure that the senator had surveillance at her house. Most people do now. So they may have Rebecca on surveillance at the house around the time of the murder. So these may be things that police are keeping close to the vest for obvious reasons. But it's certainly... Here's another odd fact, and Dave Mack alluded to this earlier. Rebecca Lynn O'Donnell recently switched her Facebook profile picture to one showing her with the dead senator. And she did this. It's a real smiley picture of the two together after Linda Collins is killed. That's creepy in itself, but let's go on. Well, you know, Daryl Cohen, I'm going to have to eat a dirt

sandwich because apparently it's now coming out that the Arkansas State Senator Linda Collins, divorced from a judge, had a close relationship with the staffer O'Donnell's boyfriend. So, you know what? As much as I poo-pooed you, you may be right, Daryl Cohen. It's a definite maybe. Okay, you stole that from me. But I don't know of any outbursts

or any anger directed one against the other. Do we know anything about that, Dave Mack? No, Nancy. But, you know, the one thing you have to think about is you've got a woman, O'Donnell, who is working for a very high profile and very wealthy former state senator on their last campaign. They thought they were going to win. She didn't. But, you know, you've got a lot of really tight relationships. And O'Donnell was one of the three people who actually testified over a financial deal between Linda Collins Smith and

her former husband, the Judge Smith. And so she was intimately involved in all aspects of the campaign and of their personal life. We wait as justice unfolds. But what we know now, a former female staffer slash friend suspect in the murder of a gorgeous Arkansas state senator, former Senator Linda Collins. Nancy, we just got an update. Arkansas judge has found probable cause to charge Rebecca Lynn O'Donnell with capital murder, abuse of a corpse and tampering with physical evidence in the murder of former state Senator Susan Collins Smith. She was arrested last Friday night. You know, the Arkansas State Police Randolph County Sheriff's Department announced the arrest in connection with the murder charge. former state senator Susan Collins-Smith. She was arrested last Friday night. You know, the Arkansas State Police and Randolph County Sheriff's Department announced the arrest in connection with the murder charge.

The judge has now sealed all the records in the case until it's over with, and he's slapped a gag order on everyone involved. So we're not going to get a whole lot more information, but he has found enough to charge her. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. It has been seven months since Caden McWilliams was last seen alive. He was in school then at Denver's Ellis Elementary, described as a kind and sweet seven-year-old. But now police confirmed the last week of school, Caden disappeared. Today, Denver Public Schools would not comment on whether anyone had reported Caden missing then, saying the district does not want to hinder the police investigation. But police started searching for the boy just two weeks ago

and then arrested his mother, Alicia Pankey, December 22nd, on a heroin charge. Shortly after, police receiving tips leading them to this storage unit where they found Caden's body. Police also arrested this man, Leland Pankey, Alicia's husband, on a year-old domestic violence charge. Records obtained by Denver 7 show he was accused of strangling a woman until she lost consciousness in 2017. He's not yet charged in Caden's death, and it's not clear if he is Caden's father. What we know is the coroner is still investigating how this little boy died, and it could have happened months ago.

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. You are hearing our friend Jacqueline Allen at ABC7 in Denver. How did seven months pass until this little boy, Caden McWilliams' body was found encased in cement? How did it happen? Caden McWilliams' body was found encased in concrete. Newly released court documents show his mother, Alicia Pankey, went to police about six days before he was found to report her husband choking her. Police then checked on her children and found her daughter at a daycare center. They say the girl told them that Caden was lost. Police searched the storage unit off East Evans Avenue on December 23rd and found a large piece of concrete with Caden's remains hidden in an animal carrier.

I just don't understand how seven months go by. Joining me in All-Star panel, Dave Mack, Dr. Michelle Dupree, Ashley Kelly, Daryl Cohen, and Karen Smith. Dave Mack, let's just start at the beginning. How does a seven-year-old boy go missing for seven months and nobody knows? Well, the mother of Caden actually went to the school to check him out on May 24th. And then she arrived back at the school in August to say that she was going to homeschool him. OK, so there was a plan of action here. He was removed from school early from one year.

And before the next year got underway, she said, no, I'm checking him out. I'm going to homeschool this little boy. That's why they didn't know he was missing. You know, that's the same thing that happened with the Turpins out in California, the house of horrors where all the children were starved, beaten, chained to their beds. They were, quote, homeschooled as well. But I got to tell you, I met a lot of kids this past week at Scout Camp that were a lot of them were homeschooled, not the majority, but some of them. And they seemed perfectly adjusted. They excelled. So I'm not saying that homeschooling is bad.

But what I am saying is that homeschooling gives a lot of bad parents a chance to get away with abuse and no teachers know about it. What about it? Joining me, Atlanta criminal defense attorney Daryl Cohen. Daryl, what about it? Nancy, sometimes there's nothing to explain. Sometimes you just have to take the facts as they are. Seven months, it just doesn't work. I just don't understand what was going on.

I'm not sure any of us understand what was going on. I don't understand another thing, Dave Mack. How did they finally find his body encased in cement and where? Okay, it went back to the original charges. You know, when you heard the report that Pankey, Leland Pankey, had been accused of choking his wife, Alicia, and there was a charge. He never appeared in court. So when she went and filed a complaint the week before Christmas, the police went to find him. That's when they found the living conditions of the family, okay? They were living in short-run hotels. When they searched the rooms, the hotels, they searched Leland Pankey's room and they found things incriminating. There was a problem. They could find the daughter.

They asked him, where's your son? He said, let's change the subject. Talk about something else. When they talked to the little girl, she says, well, he's missing. He's gone. They then tracked back over to the mother's hotel. They were not living in the same hotel when they got to hers. She was telling a story of moving things in a BMW, and there was a lot of cash and drugs involved in this. But the bottom line is they were able to trace back just detective work going through these hotel rooms. They were able to find different indicators that there was something in a storage building.

They found a car, a business car to the storage facility. And that's when they looked in this thing and saw something that was out of the ordinary, shouldn't have been there, looked like a big wrapping of trash bags, thick trash bags. But there was a stench as soon as they started opening one of the bags. Cadaver dogs indicated there was a decomposed corpse in there. It took authorities seven months to find him encased in cement. I'm talking about a seven-year-old little boy, Cade McWilliams, because first he was being homeschooled. So schools were not keeping up with the daily attendance. Nobody knew he was missing. Then they go to the home,

which is a motel, on a domestic violence warrant, is what I'm understanding. And that's when they start sorting out that the boy is missing. Is that correct? That's absolutely correct. That's why there was seven months in between. Nobody was looking after this kid. And again, they did have a younger daughter involved too. And she was in daycare. So you've got one child from this family that seems to be okay. But you've got this little boy and nobody's seen him from May 24th until we have this horrific discovery inside that. So the daughter is in daycare and she's okay. And she says her brother Caden is missing. You know, to Ashley Kelly, licensed clinical social worker, I've noticed a lot of abuse cases that one child is singled out for the abuse in the family.

It looks like the daughter is okay. Why is that? Why do parents single out one child? Yeah, that's a good question, Nancy. It does happen quite a bit where one child is singled out and the other seems to be fine until that child is either removed or unfortunately killed in this case. So it's not unusual. It's not unusual, unfortunately, for abuse cases. crate in a Denver storage unit. The boy apparently died in the crate after the dad forced him to sleep there. And we are learning this from the mother. Take a listen to our friend Jackie Crate, ABC 7 Denver. This case started unfolding just days before Christmas, but sadly, police believe the

seven-year-old Kayden McWilliams may have been dead since May. It wasn't until the week of December 21st police received information about a missing child. That week, an officer discovered heroin inside a hotel room belonging to the child's mother, Alicia Pankey. On December 22nd, she's arrested at a hotel for felony drug possession. The next day, on December 23rd, Caden is found dead inside a Denver storage unit. It's unclear how long he had been there. His mother, Alicia Pankey, was in court this afternoon after turning herself into police yesterday. And Caden was a student at Ellis Elementary School in southeast Denver. It's unclear up until what point he was enrolled there.

And new tonight, we heard from the school's principal who says, quote, Caden was the sweetest boy. He stood out from others from the moment he walked through the school doors every morning with a huge smile on his face. End quote. The school also called Caden a model student, saying he wasn't afraid to do the right thing because it was right. And tonight, Alicia Penke is being held for investigation of child abuse resulting in death. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The seven-year-old boy found dead in a storage unit had meth and cocaine in his system, according to the medical examiner. Caden Williams was found in December.

On Friday, the Denver office of the medical examiner released the autopsy results. The report reads, in part, it is possible the decedent experienced complications of injuries, for example, infection or sepsis. However, he may have also suffered a component of asphyxia, dehydration, and or hyperthermia, which cannot be confirmed. His mother, Alicia Pankey, was formerly charged with child abuse resulting in death and abuse of a corpse. This little boy, only 27 pounds at age seven when his body was found encased in cement. To Dr. Michelle Dupree, author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide, South Carolina Medical Examiner. Dr. Dupree, we still don't have a cause of death.

How can you get a cause of death and what's the holdup? Nancy, sometimes we cannot get a cause of death. In that case, we actually file that death certificate as undetermined, which leaves that case open in case new information or new evidence is found. In this case, it may be very difficult because the child's body was enclosed in cement. It may be very difficult to tell. You know, I'm not quite sure how this slipped through the cracks. To Dave Mack, when the first incident of domestic abuse

occurred, why were the children allowed to stay in the home with the dad, Leland Pankey? You know, Nancy, they moved around a lot and avoided contact. That's why there was that open warrant for Leland Pankey that they hadn't been able to serve. They had left their home and were living in short-term hotels. And that's why the kids were under the radar, you know. That's why they weren't found. So they were going hotel to hotel to stay under the radar to keep him out of jail. Apparently. And to deal drugs because you've got $40,000 in cash that they were found with on top of drugs.

Both parents, Leland as well as Alicia, were both found with drugs on them. cash that they were found with on top of drugs. Both parents, Leland as well as Alicia, were both found with drugs on them. And that's what actually landed them both in jail. Panky, Leland Panky actually ended up in jail because of the old warrant on domestic violence and drug charges. You know, what about that to Dr. Michelle Dupree? What about the fact that he had meth in his system when they analyzed it? How do you find that out? Nancy, we would do toxicology examination, and we can do that from tissue. We can do that from the surrounding environment. We can test body parts to determine if there is a toxicology issue, and in this case, there was. We've learned another fact. Daryl Cohen, apparently a woman spoke with the mother, Alicia Pankey, and she says the mom told her that Caden died in that dog crate after he was forced to sleep there by the dad, Leland, that the crate was covered with blankets, and Alicia believes Caden suffocated overnight. Now, in my mind, that's still felony murder, which carries the same

sentence as premeditated murder. Felony murder is simply when you're committing a felony. Think of it like this, a bank robbery. Jackie Howard and I go in to rob a bank, and we bring intern Riley along with us. And Riley's just sitting out in the car minding her own business as a getaway girl. And then Jackie gets wild hair and starts shooting, kills three bank tellers. Riley sitting out in the car, little intern Riley. Uh-huh. She's in it for three counts of murder one. That's right. She's committing a felony, bank robbery, and a death occurs, even though she didn't intend it. In this case, Daryl Cohen, I would argue to a jury, this was child abuse, extreme child abuse, putting a child in a dog crate and covering it with blankets. And if he suffocated, it was a result from child abuse. That's a felony murder, Daryl. How are you going to get around that? I do not know how to get

around that. And I wish I had one. Well, that's what you're paid for. That's what you get paid thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars, you and your dopers and your killers, all your clients. Nancy, my argument would be that she didn't mean to kill him, but it's the felony murder rule. My argument would be that he was unruly. He was difficult to deal with, and we've tried everything, and so we put him in a crate, and we put the blankets over him. That would be my argument. We did not mean to kill him. We are

just devastated. My clients are devastated that he is dead, but frankly, it would not fly, and it shouldn't fly. So bottom line, Daryl Cohen, if she's charged with child abuse resulting in death, what would her penalty be? In Georgia, life. Probably life with parole, but life. You know what? I think the mom should be charged with keeping the dad in the home. Listen to this. So I was able to confirm that Elijah Pankey is married to Leland Pankey with a marriage license. We already know that Elijah Pankey has a criminal record dating back to 2000 that includes driving under the influence and heroin possession.

Today, I got a hold of more court documents that accused Leland of abusing her several times. Today, Leland Pankey appeared in court facing second-degree assault charges from an incident back in November of 2017. He's accused of holding his wife down on the couch and strangling her. His wife told officers that she lost consciousness twice from his strangulations. Police believe that the boy has been dead since May. We are also learning the same woman who reported how Alicia said Caden died allegedly said said that the dad holding him, lifting him by the neck off the floor. He went to a bathroom with the little boy where Alicia heard a scuffle ensued. Then Leland comes out of the bathroom alone saying they can't save both children. That's contradictory to putting him in a cage and putting blankets over

him. She says that the mom said the parents removed the boy's body from the hotel in the dog carrier, took him to the storage unit, covered him in cement, and encased the kennel in trash bags. To me, mom needs to be charged with murder one right along with the dad. What about that, Daryl Cohen? One thousand percent agree. If those facts are as mentioned, the mother is equally culpable. She did exactly what it takes to murder her own child. I can tell you on this charge, even if it's not upgraded, she is looking at a max of life behind bars. If she is convicted on even these charges, she will get life behind bars. Bottom line, Caden's body showed signs of abuse, starving prior to his death.

Is this just another case of a child slipping through the system's cracks, Dave Mack? Is that what happened? Apparently so, Nancy. But I will tell you that 27 pounds at the time of his death, somebody in that school system had to know. Because he couldn't have weighed much more than that when he was in school for the last time. Because they're saying that he died within four to six weeks from the last time he was seen in school. So you're going to tell me that it's normal for a seven-year-old to weigh 27 pounds? I got four kids.

They all weighed more than that by the time they were two. So how long had he been being homeschooled before he died? That's a good point, Dave Mack. Well, they checked him out May 24th, okay? That was a week before school ended. His mom checks him out of school. Then she goes back to school in August. After he's presumed, now we believe he's already dead. But she goes back in August and says, oh, he's not

coming back to school this year. I'm going to homeschool him. So how long before he was dead? They're actually saying that they last saw him May 24th and then the school never saw him again. Police are saying that he was killed. He had to have been killed sometime between then and July. So we're talking five or six weeks between the time the school last saw him. So he was already emaciated by that time. I find it hard to believe there were no bruises, no indicators at all that he was being mistreated. Why did it take so long for them to charge the mom and the dad once they found his body? Well, you know, we mentioned that he was encased in cement and from the time that they found the body until they're having to break down everything that went on. It wasn't just a simple process of looking at a child. You're talking about a child

that had been dead for some time encased in cement. You know, we just found out not that long ago about the drugs that were found in his liver and in his body. So they still haven't determined the actual cause of death, but they found that he had wounds that hadn't healed all the way. He had broken bones, some that were healed, some that weren't. We know the condition of this child's body was horrific at the time of his death. That's all we know. That's why it takes so long for all this to go on. We wait as justice unfolds for the mother, Alicia Pankey, and husband, Leland Pankey.

May they both rot in hell. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.