Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - SHOCK DISCOVERY: Who hurled infant girl down rocky ravine to die as coyotes prowled?

Episode Date: May 17, 2019

A North Carolina mother calls 911 and claims her 7-month-old baby has been kidnapped. Hours later, the baby is found down a 75-foot ravine. The mother is nowhere to be found.Cheryl and Scott Fowler tell Nancy the unbelievable story of finding baby Shaylie in the woods behind their home.Nancy's expert panel weighs in:Stefany Bornman: Reporter for WSPA-TVTroy Slaten: Los Angeles defense lawyerSteven Lampley: Former detectiveDr. Bethany Marshall: Psychoanalyst and family therapist Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Okay, that's the emergency. I'm running my own down. Road. There's a little baby that's been thrown off. And I did see it. And we found it in a carrier in the stream that's held my... Okay. I have just... All right, you said slow down for me, okay? You said... Road, right?

Yes, ma'am. The baby's in the woods. Okay, it's been thrown off in the woods. We have a double driveway. Okay, we're going to go to the other side. Okay. We're going to go to the other side. Okay.

We're going to go to the other side. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. road right yes okay it's been thrown off in the thrown off in the woods we have a double driveway one driveway Okay. Okay. What is it doing now? Is it crying?

Dear Lord in heaven, can you even imagine realizing an infant baby has been thrown down a deep ravine and you are the one to find it? Can you get to the baby? Can you save the baby? Is the baby dead? That was a frantic 911 call. Who would throw an infant baby down a steep ravine? Why? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. We want answers. A tiny baby thrown down a ravine? Doesn't anybody

know by now about Save Haven? You can leave a baby at a police station, a fire department, a church. They're all over the place. No questions asked. You won't get in trouble. Why would you want to kill the baby? Throw the baby off live and let it lay at the bottom of a ravine until it's dead or animals tear it apart? Oh, oh, oh. That's what we're looking at this morning. Again, welcome everybody. I'm just beside myself. Joining me in all star panel, Dr. Bethany Marshall,

psychoanalyst out of California at drbethanymarshall.com. Stephen Lampley, detective, stephenlampley.com. High profile defense lawyer, Troy Slayton out of California. Crack reporter from WSPA-TV, Stephanie Borman, and two special guests. Straight out to you, Stephanie Borman. I'm beside myself. I'm beside myself. Tell me about this area. I want to hear about the area itself first and then about the ravine. The area was

really remote. I mean, it was off of Main Highway. There was not really a lot of streetlights. I mean, it was pretty deep out past the actual town where everything happened. I mean, one of the roads was even a gravel road. Well, you're talking to someone that was raised up, not even in a city, out in an unincorporated area of a rural county in the very center of Georgia. So I know what you mean. A lot of our roads were red dirt. We didn't even have gravel for Pete's sake. So I'm talking right now to WSPA-TV's reporter, Stephanie Borman, who has traveled to look at this ravine and reporting back to us about what happened. And I want to clarify something. When we heard that 911 call at the very, very beginning, that's actually a woman on 911. But the sheriff's office has distorted the sound to disguise the identity of the person. I'm just

beside myself. Back to you, Stephanie Borman, about who would throw a baby down or a vein. Now, you're telling me that this was in a very rural area and it's there in North Carolina, in Henderson County, as I understand. Is that correct? Yes, absolutely. Henderson County, North Carolina. Now, for those that are not familiar with North Carolina, let me do it relationally. Like people say, where's your dad from? I say, well, he's from Haycote, Alabama. And that's an Indian name.

And that's near Op. And that's near Enterprise. And that's not far from Mobile. Because you have to relate, relate, relate, relate until you can say a name that people will identify. So tell me, tell me, where is Henderson County? I'm trying to get an idea of what this place looks like. So this is in western North Carolina, and I would say it's probably about 45 minutes to an hour from the biggest city is Asheville. Oh, yes. Beautiful, beautiful. But what that means is rolling hills, mountains, very densely wooded areas,

the kind of place where you could throw a tiny baby and it could scream its lungs out and nobody would hear. You know, Troy, I've seen a lot of hardened criminals in my lifetime, and I, you know, I hope to help put a lot more of them behind bars, but to do such a thing to a defenseless baby, you know, there's a special place in hell for somebody like that. I mean, think about it, Troy Slayton, because somebody heard the crying. So the baby was alive when it was flung down a ravine. And then if you hear the 911 caller, the baby quits crying. Somebody threw that baby down a ravine alive for it to fall to the bottom and die, and animals tear it apart.

That is the mindset of whoever did this. So don't tell me, Troy Slayton, that the baby somehow got away and crawled and flung itself down a ravine. Don't go there, Troy. But, I mean, this is a certain mentality, Troy. Whoever would do that to a defenseless child, I agree, Nancy. There's a special place in hell for a person like that. But we don't know yet the circumstances that led to that baby being at the bottom of the ravine. And the baby may have been in its child safety seat at the bottom of the ravine. Okay.

You know what? Does that make a difference to me, Dr. Bethany Marshall? You're the shrink, and boy, do I need a shrink right now. What difference does it make to me if somebody throws the baby down the ravine in or not in a car seat? It's still at the bottom of the ravine, dead, soon to be dead, or waiting to be picked apart by animals. I mean, we are talking about rural, rural North Carolina. We just heard Stephanie Borman from WSPA describe the area. Nancy. So do I care? That's like, you know, choosing between arsenic and cyanide.

And Nancy, this is a seven-week-old baby, to put it in context. The ravine is 75 feet deep. Can you imagine all the brush, the underbrush, the animals, all of the potential dangers? You asked Troy Slayton, who would have done this? Well, number one, whoever did this is not bonded with the baby. Could be for multiple reasons. A mother that doesn't want the baby, kidnappers who took the baby, a pedophile who snatched the baby, kidnappers who took the baby, a pedophile who snatched the baby, abused the baby, and then didn't want it anymore. But we know from statistics that most children and babies who are abducted are abducted at the hands of non-custodial caretakers. That is people in the baby's extended family who have some form of interest or attachment,

interest in or attachment to the baby, but they don't have rights to the baby. They're not allowed to be alone with the baby. They're not allowed to take the baby out on an outing. Seven weeks old. Seven weeks old. My twins, Stephanie Borman, were born extremely premature. And it was my goal every day to just keep them alive. My daughter, Lucy, was born at two pounds. Two pounds. She was the size of a little kitten. And every day I would feed her and feed her and feed her and she'd

throw up. She couldn't keep it down. Oh my goodness. And I'm thinking about them at seven weeks. I remember holding the little heads in my left hand and trying to pour warm water over them, trying to give them a bath and they couldn't hold their little heads up because they were so tiny and premature. And I'm just thinking about somebody throwing this baby down that ravine. Stephanie Borman, unlike any of the other people we've spoken to so far, including myself, we haven't seen the ravine. Tell me about it, Stephanie Borman. So when we got there to check it out, I mean, 75 feet. Just completely, just wood, brush everywhere.

I mean, I was terrified that there might have been snakes in there. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Okay. Slow down for me, okay? You said right? Okay. Okay, it's been thrown off in the woods. Thrown off in the woods? We have a double driveway. Uh-huh. One driveway, and one down the lane.

I hear some screaming. I called the door down. My husband heard it come off the wood. And we were waiting for it to get here. And it looked in a floor. And it fell down in a hole. In a floor in a hole. Okay.

Okay. What is it doing now? Is it crying? Oh, when I hear that 911 call, it gives me chills up and down my spine. You are hearing a desperate caller calling 911 after they realize a baby has been thrown down a ravine, a seven-week-old baby girl. And you can't really understand everything the caller is saying. It's actually a woman calling in 911 because the caller's voice has been distorted to protect the identity of the caller. But this is what we know. A baby thrown down a remote ravine in western North Carolina. A 75-foot ravine there

in Henderson County. What more do we know? Joining me right now, two very special guests, Cheryl and Scott Fowler, who actually found the baby. I want to go first to Cheryl Fowler. Welcome. And God bless you. God bless you and Scott Fowler. Tell me what happened that morning. Well, it was late in the afternoon. I was taking my husband's supper down to the bottom of the road.

He was going to stop in his dump truck and get his supper. And when I cut the car off, I thought I heard a baby crying, off way off in the distance. And, oh, shocked, unbelievable. I just couldn't imagine a child in those woods in that dense area. There shouldn't have been anyone. Well, hold on right there. Hold on, Cheryl.

It's like when you hear it it you know it's a baby there's no mistaking it and you look around and there's nothing but woods very dense woods a deep ravine and out of nowhere you hear a baby and you know immediately that's not right well it's such a loud scream that I couldn't really tell it was just a surreal we've had a turkey been hurt down in the area he broke his leg we've been trying to catch him and I thought it was such a loud screaming, I couldn't really tell. It was just a surreal. We've had a turkey been hurt down in the area. He broke his leg. We've been trying to catch him, and I thought it was screaming in pain, like something had a hold of it. So I called my daughter at home and said,

please come down here, somebody's hurting a baby. I believe it's a baby. I can't tell, but it sounds like the scream of a baby. So she come running down there in her car, and she started walking up the road. She walked probably 300 and 320 feet. So she screamed, oh, my God, Daddy, get up here. There's a car seat down up the road. She walked probably 300 and 320 feet. So she screamed, oh, my God, Daddy, get up here. There's a car seat down in the woods.

And he took off up the other driveway. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I feel like I'm drinking from the fire hydrant. It's so much at once. Okay, so you hear it. You call your daughter. She starts walking up and down the street. Now, wait a minute. Did you say you were taking food out to your

husband to eat in a truck? He's in his dump truck, so he's going to work late that night. So I took his supper down to meet him at the highway so he'd go on to work, which I never do that. You know what you just reminded me of? You know, okay, I'm going to come back to the fact that you just said you never do that. When we were growing up, my father, as many people know, worked for the railroad. And he was an agent, a freight agent. He wasn't sitting up in some high-rise office. He was a freight agent. And my mother would get all of us in the car.

And when he was in town and not working a mobile route where he had to travel, we would take him his supper every night. I remember she'd make I'd make the tea, not the instant kind, the kind you have to boil and you put in the sugar and all that, in a mason jar. And we'd cover the top with wax paper and a rubber band, and she'd

make him a plate. We didn't have any Tupperware, of course. And it'd be on a plate, covered up't have any Tupperware, of course. And it'd be on a plate covered up. And we'd go to the freight depot. And we'd all go in. And we'd sit there while he worked and ate. And then we'd leave and go home and we'd eat. And you just triggered that memory.

I hadn't thought of that in so long. Yeah. So you're telling me you didn't normally go out to the road and meet him. Oh, no. So this was to give him his supper so he could be on his way. Yes. I never do that. Okay.

Well, he's a lucky man if you even did it one time. My husband's always shocked if I cook something. Oh, I take your supper. He's like, all right, what's up? Never to that spot. I've never went down there and sat and waited on him. Never. Really?

No. Now, you know, Dr. Bethany Marshall, you and I have very, very different opinions on heaven, I'm sure. But I'm telling you, this was a divine, a divine moment. Because she has never done this before. She's never done it since. She's never gone to that spot to take him, his dinner, for him to just pick it up and keep going. And I feel like that's providence. I really do. Nancy, I thought we had the same ideas on heaven because I thought we would still be friends when we get to the other side. So I actually... Yeah,

I'll finally get to sit down and let you shrink me. I don't have time right now. But we will have time once we rest. I will say the idea that she heard a baby crying in a remote area where she has never been before. And you're right, mothers know when they hear a baby, they know what that sound sounds like. But still, she could have dismissed it. There is something quite divine and providential. That baby had a grandmother or grandfather looking over the baby. Somebody on the other side was watching. God, whatever faith you are when you're listening to this program, this baby was supposed to live. This is what I think. And this is why she heard the baby. I'm just overwhelmed with Cheryl Fowler and what she's saying right now. So, Cheryl, your daughter comes walking up and down, you said, I think,

about 300 feet back and forth, and then what happens? She screams, Daddy, get up here. There's a car seat in the woods. She could see it from down in the bottom the way she was coming up. So he immediately went up to where she was at, and got in my car and went up and I couldn't see down in there where it was at. So he could see it from his side. So he just took off after it and went down in there and got it. And she was up under a rock parsley. Wait a minute, wait a minute. Your husband, Scott Fowler, gets out of the truck and he scrambles down a 75-foot ravine.

Oh, yeah. Well, you better hold on to him. I was about to tell him how lucky he is to have you cooking his supper, but I'm just so impressed by the two of you. So he gets out of the truck and goes down a 75-foot ravine. And joining me right now, Cheryl Fowler's husband, Scott Fowler. Mr. Fowler, thank you so much for being with us. I want to hear it from the very beginning. What happened? Well, first of all,

I've got a good wife. You sure do. My wife's been ill with scleroderma for about 14 years and she has trouble breathing and she takes good care of me. You know what? You guys are so blessed and I also want to tell you, which is neither here nor there, but I love your accents. I get so much grief about my accent. I always say, what accent? But I love your accents. I can listen to you talk all day long. Now, start at the beginning. Tell me what happened, Scott. Well, just like you said, Nancy, it's one of those things where the grace of God put us all where we need to be because I was working late that night.

I do heavy construction work, build roads, and I happened to be in my old dump truck that day. And my wife called and says, God, if you'll come by the driveway, I'll give you some supper because it was going to rain, and we're always trying to beat this rain in construction. So I pulled in there where she had parked at the end of my driveway. And we live kind of in rural North Carolina, but we're not too far from Hendersonville or Asheville. But there is a housing development next door to us over here. It's in the mountains, though.

But I pulled in, and my wife was out of the car with my daughter, and I could tell she was kind of motioning for me to cut my truck off, that something was wrong. So I cut the truck off, and I got out and walked over to her, and she says, God, we hear a baby crying. And naturally, I looked at Cheryl, and I said, Cheryl, have you lost your mind? There can't be no baby crying here. You know, maybe it's an animal or something out there, a crow.

And I started listening, and by that time, my daughter started walking up my driveway to where she heard the noise, the baby crying. And she was walking toward the baby crying, and I was watching her. And she gets up there to a point, and she about just stumbles over. She sees the baby seat, and she hollers, oh, my she about just stumbles over she she sees the baby seat she hollers oh my god daddy get up here so i jumped in her car her car was headed a different direction but i backed back up my driveway to where she was and got out and walked over to her and i she had seen the baby's uh seat there and i kind of got in a different position. I seen the baby crying,

and if the baby hadn't been crying, I don't know that any of us would ever have heard this baby, but maybe I just took off and went down in there and got the baby and got it. I was kind of leery about picking it up there for a minute, didn't know if it broke up too bad, and it was looking dead at me, and I could his skin up bruised up it landed again a big rock and it's about half its body was up under a rocker i finally got my hand under her head she was dressed in pink so i figured it was a little girl and on its little old shirt right off the bat i seen it said i love mama and and my mind's already in a twist thinking how could anybody already i'm in shock because i can't think how anybody could do this and uh i finally got her kind of

underneath her backside there where i could wiggle her away from that rock and i got her picked up my arm and as soon as i got her picked up she uh she quit crying i mean right off the bat and it worried me and i looked at her and she was looking dead at me like she's just okay i'm safe now and uh i picked i got her in my arm good and grabbed the baby seat and i just come back up in the driveway meantime my wife's talking to 9-1-1 on the phone and uh we get up there and we're dusting the baby's face off the dirt. We can tell the baby's breathing good and looking at me, dead in the eyes the whole time. She's got the prettiest little blue eyes. And about that time, about ten minutes later, the sheriff of our county, Loyal Griffin, he drove up first there on the scene.

He was the one telling me about this elaborate story of her being kidnapped and all. Meantime, I ain't really interested in hearing about all that right then, but anyway, they got the baby there, and the MS showed up and started taking care of things from that point on. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The child was discovered. The child was out of the car seat. However, all the indications lead us to believe that the child went over the bank in the car seat. After it hit the ground, subsequently the child rolled out of the car seat.

Investigators say the mother is not the person who reported the kidnapping, but would not identify that 911 caller. They say the person who called 911 believed at the time that the mother and her daughter had been kidnapped. Wow. We are bringing you a story out of North Carolina. I've never heard anything like it. A woman happens to hear a baby in a very, very remote rural area crying. She is alarmed, gets her daughter, gets her husband. The husband scrambles down a 75-foot ravine to save a seven-week-old baby girl. Joining me, those two heroes, Cheryl Fowler and Scott Fowler. Also with me right now, in addition to Troy Slayton, Stephen Lampley, and Dr. Bethany Marshall, Stephanie Borman, reporter with WSPA-TV.

Stephanie Borman, what did I just hear? That the baby had been kidnapped, but the mother did not call 911? That's right. According to police, they received that first call around 4.30 on Thursday, May 9th, about an alleged kidnapping of a mother and her seven-week-old from Biltmore Park, which is in Asheville. And what do we know about the circumstances about the alleged kidnap? Because the mother certainly wasn't thrown down the ravine, and it would be hell and high water to get me away from my twins. So what were the circumstances surrounding the kidnap of the mother and the baby? So according to police, after that phone call came in, they rushed to Biltmore Park, immediately started questioning people if they saw anything. At that point, they began pinging the mother's phone and they were able to ping it to a location

in the county over, Henderson County, a location there. So Asheville police immediately called Henderson deputies and asked them to go. Now, wait a minute. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on, hold on, hold on. I'm trying to write everything you're saying. Stephanie Borman, I'm just so happy to have you and Scott and Cheryl with us. Stephen Lampley, let me bring you in right now. Crack Detective, you can find them at StephenLampley.com. Stephen, now, they would want you to think it takes them forever to ping a phone. You know how investigations, I'm like, ping the phone, ping the phone. They go, well, we've got to get the records, and we've got to do this, and we've got to do that. B.S.

And now we've got the proof. They pinged the mother's cell phone right then and there. Did you hear what Stephanie Borman just said? Yeah, Nancy. Now, 9-1-1, my son was an employee at 9-1-1, a supervisor, and they have the capability to triangulate and ping pretty quick. They do. They do, Stephen.

So when I hear that and I hear people talking about it on TV, that is not true. That is absolutely not true. Back to Stephanie Borman, WSPA-TV. Stephanie, so you're telling me the cops, the sheriffs in Biltmore Park, they ping the phone of the mother that has been kidnapped, Krista Noel Madden. And where did you tell me that it's pinged too so they ping the phone to a location in henderson county which like i said earlier is between 45 to an hour from where the alleged kidnapping happened in biltmore park so the ashville police then you know recruit help from henderson county deputies to have them immediately go to this location where her phone is being pinged to

check it out. And it ends up being a church. A church where? It's off Mount Rhodes Mountain Road, about 3.5 miles from where the Fowler family found the infant. Rhodes Mountain Road, about three and a half miles from where Cheryl and Scott Fowler miraculously, and it is a miracle, hear the baby and save the baby from a 75-foot ravine. The baby's all banged up but alive, praise the Lord. All right, so let me understand this. They ping it to this church. And then what happens, Stephanie Borman? So Henderson County deputies show up to this church, Barnwell Church, and they find Krista Madden, who walks up to them and introduces herself as Krista Madden.

At that point, some of the deputies take her back to the sheriff's office to have her checked out and evaluated. And they also discover that behind this church, it's a gravel road all the way at the end of this gravel road behind the church where Krista Madden was found. They find an abandoned car, which later... Let me break in one moment, Stephanie Borman, WSPA. You find Krista Noelle Madden, the mother of the baby, Shelly Madden. Both of them reported kidnapped. Now, the baby's all banged up from being thrown down a ravine, but what shape is the mother in? Is she bleeding? Is she bruised? Are her clothes torn and ripped? Has she been bound and gagged and ligature strangled?

I mean, tell me about her condition when the sheriff finds her. Her hair is in place. I mean, she looks fine. Like, she doesn't look like someone who, you know, fought alleged kidnappers to escape. Well, what is her story, Stephanie Borman? Who took her baby and her? What she tells police is that a man and a woman kidnapped them,

put them in the back and the trunk of their car and just took them around. And then she was able to escape from these people without her seven week old infant. And according to her, when she's telling this police, they are still holding her seven-week-old infant. Now, let me understand this just a moment. I think we better go to a defense attorney right quick. Troy Slayton, a renowned California defense attorney. So this woman, Krista Noelle Madden, the mother, describes the suspect as a red-headed man, a woman with black hair, both with a thin build, and both conveniently wearing ski masks. She tells, according to Stephanie Borman at WSPA, she tells police that

she managed to escape, but the kidnappers drove off with her daughter. And she even describes the vehicle, a 2014 Mazda CX-5. Well, she certainly has her wits about her, doesn't she, Troy Slate? Well, if that story is true, thank goodness that she was able to escape those captors. You know, I don't know how you do it, Troy Slate, and how you can say something like that with a straight face. I mean, Bethany Marshall, please. I know you're not a lawyer, but this story stinks to high heaven.

She doesn't have a scratch on her. Her hair's in place. Other than a big puss on her mouth, I mean, she looks absolutely fine. How did she get out of the car, what, jump out while it was still going? Wouldn't she have at least gotten one scratch? Nancy, do you know of one mother who would leave a seven-week-old infant behind? No mother would do that. They would go down fighting.

And I want to put this in context. She's 35 years old. She has a three-year-old. So this is a highly competent woman. She is married to a cardiologist. This is an upstanding woman in the community. This is a person who's fully capable of protecting a seven week old infant so when you tell me this stinks to high heaven if i heard this story in my office i would say wait a minute something's going on here and what i would begin to assess is is this a mother who is not bonded with her baby

believe it or not it happens some mothers are not bonded bonded schmonded i don't care bethany you're taking me down a rabbit hole i don't care who she's bonded with i want to find out how that baby got at the foot of the ravine stephanie borman i i figured uh from researching her that she's the same person krista noel madden I've found, who works as a registered nurse anesthetist. Now, are you telling me, is her husband a doctor, Stephanie? From my understanding, yes. And she has a great job. Just had her baby recently.

I mean, you know, she sounds like an outstanding mother on paper. And they've been married nearly 10 years. They have the other daughter that Bethany Marshall told us about who will soon be turning four years old. What? I mean, I want to go back to Cheryl and Scott Fowler. Cheryl and Scott Fowler, when you were outside, did you see any sign of a redheaded man and a woman with black hair wearing ski masks or a 2014 Mazda CX-5? No, but my daughter did see the rear of a gray car turn around in her yard before it happened. And my husband has red hair, and I have brown hair. So I guess you did it.

Yeah. Now, what kind of car was it that your daughter saw? She was just in her house, and you look way down in the yard, about 300, 400 feet, and you can see a curve down there. She saw a gray car, the tail end of a gray car, leaving her yard. And down below there,

about 300 more feet, is the ravine. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We are back with a case of a seven-week-old infant, a baby girl. How many people in this country would pay thousands and thousands of dollars to adopt a baby girl like that? She could have been dropped off anywhere at a safe haven, such as a church, a fire department, a police station, but no, somebody threw the baby down a 75-foot ravine. If it had not been for Cheryl and Scott Fowler, that baby would be dead

today. To Stephanie Borman with WSPA-TV. Stephanie, you were telling me earlier about the cops, the sheriffs, finding this mother, Krista Noelle Madden, at a local church about three and a half miles away from where the Fowlers live, where the baby was found down the ravine. You were mentioning there was an abandoned car in the back of the church. Tell me about that. So after the deputies arrived at this church, they find Krista, take her back to the sheriff's office to get her checked

out, and they discover a car abandoned on the Scrabble Road behind the church. It's later determined that the car is Krista's car, the dark-colored Mazda. According to Krista's story, that was the car that they were put in by the alleged kidnappers. And so at that point, they obviously don't touch the car. They deploy a bunch of canines to this area behind this church, a 40-yard perimeter, and they try to see if there's been other scents of other people in the area. Stephanie, let me understand what you just told me. Hold on. You're telling me she was kidnapped

in her own car? Yes. Okay. Well, that car should have been loaded with prints of the kidnappers. Then you're telling me that tracker dogs, scent dogs, not cadaver dogs, came and did a, the sheriff set up a 40-yard perimeter, and that's quite a distance. And they searched for other scents, and the dogs did not pick anything else up. Besides crystal mat and scent, yes. Bob's getting a lot harder because here she is in the getaway car, and there's no sign, no red hair, no black hair, no fingerprints, no scent. And there she is with the car. And according to Scott and Cheryl Fowler, their daughter saw, didn't you say a gray car, Cheryl?

Yeah, the tail end of a gray car going around the curb, our driveway. Okay, Troy Slayton, you're the California defense attorney. Give it your best shot. The absence of evidence does not prove a fact, Nancy. You know that very well. If these kidnappers had the wherewithal to disguise their face, maybe they wore gloves. So that would explain the absence of any fingerprints in the car. Take a listen to this. Just an hour and a half before, the baby's mother, Krista Madden, was found by deputies at this church just 3.5 miles away after her phone was pinged to that location. Investigators say Madden's car was abandoned behind the church at the end of Rhodes Mountain Road. Investigators believe Madden threw her baby

still sitting in her car seat over the bank. When they threw her, she came out of the car seat, she was in the weeds and the trees and the car seat was sitting far from her. The dispatcher stayed on the phone with the caller until deputies arrived, advising the female not to continue touching the car seat that her husband dragged out of these woods while rescuing baby shaley investigators say madden is married and her husband is baby shaley's father he was interviewed but detectives believe that madden acted alone the sheriff does say that baby shaley is doing good tonight you're hearing uh our friend stephanie bo WSPA-TV, to Cheryl and Scott Fowler. Cheryl, isn't it true that you've said coyotes run through the area every night? The baby wouldn't have made it

over a couple of hours. Was it already getting dark? Yeah, it was 7 30. It was starting to get a little bit dusk. She wouldn't have made it. There's too many coyotes there, plus copperhead. We've killed several copperheads in that area, not cottonmouths, but copperheads. What about it, Scott Fowler? Tell me about the animals that roam that area. Well, Nancy, you've got, like my wife was saying, we do hear coyotes traveling, and I've tracked a few bear in our area. They're around Asheville and Henderson County here, and copperheads, snakes like that.

But, you know, the fact of the matter is that little girl fell again a rock, and that rock could have killed her, just the lick of that rock when she landed. And she had a pretty good little bruise on her forehead, and she was skinned up pretty bad. It's just amazing that she didn't get killed just as soon as she landed again in that rock. She's a lucky little girl. Well, I think it's a miracle, I really do, to have your head, an infant like that,

just seven weeks old, not even two months, thrown down a 75-foot ravine, you hit your head on a rock. I mean, I would be remiss. I would be wrong if I did not say flat out, an angel is protecting her. This is a miracle, a miracle. And it is. Dr. Bethany Marshall, I just don't know what to think. Why would a mother do such a thing? It's hard for us to imagine, Nancy, but some mothers are not attached to their babies. It can happen for many reasons. The most common term we hear is postpartum depression, but that does not cause the type of detachment that leads to homicide. Usually you have a woman, a mother who has some kind of a personality

disorder that makes her selfish, self-centered, unwilling to take care of the baby. Oh dear Lord in heaven. You're not actually trying to say she has this personality disorder. She's in a apparently happy 10 year marriage with a four year old little girl. She's a nurse anesthetist. That doesn't happen overnight. She's clearly in her right mind, a personality disorder. I don't know. Have you got something in your DSM called pure evil? Because I think that's what the disorder is. Well, Nancy, where I was going with this is that it's a conflagration of factors. It's not just the personality disorder. It's not just not being bonded with the child. There could be postpartum psychosis. There could be sociopathy. We talk about that in men,

but in women, it shows up in something called borderline personality disorder. She could have had a history of schizoaffective disorder or bipolar, and she was well-medicated. You don't know any of that. You don't know a lick of that. You're just, okay, Bethany, I appreciate that, but we don't know anything that about Kristen Noel Madden other than she had a family, a husband and a job, a very impressive job. You know what? I want to go out with our friends, Stephanie Borman, Scott Fowler and Cheryl Fowler. Stephanie, where is the baby now? So the baby has been turned over to other family members as far as we know. Scott Fowler, and Cheryl Fowler. Stephanie, where is the baby now? So the baby has been turned over to other family members as far as we know. Scott Fowler and Cheryl Fowler.

Scott Fowler, as you look back on this, what are your thoughts? Well, Nancy, my thoughts are I'm just lucky the Lord put us where we needed to be that day. And that little girl's in good shape. Like I say, if my wife hadn't heard that little baby crying, this could have been a different story. I don't know when we would have ever heard or seen that baby because in that area, like I say, we may not have ever noticed it was down there. But it's just a good thing we were there.

Cheryl Fowler, when you look back on it, what do you think? Well, it just rips my heart out. I have three children, and I'd die right now for every one of them. And somebody come near me, the kidnapper's going to have to kill me before he takes my baby. But she's done admitted in National Times last night that she admitted to driving the car and placing the baby on the ground, tossing the car seat, and leaving. So she's done admitted that. And to me, they can come up with all these excuses they want. A true mother does not take her child and throw it down the ravine. I don't care what the reason is.

Give it to somebody. I told the officer that night, give me the baby. Don't put it in the system. I'll take the baby. I'll raise it like the other three I raised. Don't put this baby in harm's way. I'll take it. There's no excuse for it. You know what, Cheryl?

I never, after my fiance was murdered, I never thought I would be a mother or a wife. And that has been the greatest thing that has ever happened to me on this earth, is to be a mother. And I agree with you. I would love to have another baby, to love, and to love me back. And I'm just you. I would love to have another baby to love and to love me back.

And I'm just sick about it. But you know what? I'm so happy today. I'm so happy right now that this baby, little Shelly, is alive. Thanks to what I believe was a miracle of putting you, Cheryl, and Scott right there at that moment, at that spot. And that's just all I can say is PTL. Praise the Lord. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off.

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