Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - SHOCK TWIST IN MYSTERY DEATH OF BRIDE-TO-BE AFTER SHE'S VICIOUSLY STABBED 20 TIMES, BIZARRELY RULED SUICIDE

Episode Date: November 18, 2024

Ellen Greenberg was found stabbed to death in her apartment, with at least 20 stab wounds. She was stabbed in the back of the neck and head, and the final wound was a stab to the chest, with the knife left embedded there. Her death was initially ruled a homicide by the Philadelphia Medical Examiner. However, police disagreed and publicly challenged the medical examiner's findings. Months later, Medical Examiner Marlon Osbourne, without warning or explanation, reclassified the death as a suicide. Since then, Greenberg’s parents have fought to have her death ruled a homicide or inconclusive, only to learn that Pennsylvania state law allows a "medical examiner to be wrong as to the manner of death but cannot be compelled to change it." The Chester County District Attorney's office announced it could not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a crime occurred in Ellen Greenberg’s death. As a result, the investigation is now considered "inactive." The DA’s office said detectives reviewed prior investigations conducted by the Philadelphia Police and the Attorney General's office, interviewed new witnesses, and consulted with an independent forensic expert. A spokesperson for the DA's office explained, “This standard of proof—beyond a reasonable doubt—makes the criminal investigation different from other legal matters surrounding Ms. Greenberg’s death." The Chester County DA's decision to move the investigation to "inactive" status does not change the fact that there is no statute of limitations for criminal homicide in Pennsylvania, and the case is not being closed. It will remain "open and inactive." Joining Nancy Grace Today:  Sandee & Josh Greenberg - Ellen Greenberg's Parents, Twitter: @justice4ellentw, Facebook: @justice4ellenFB, GoFundMe:www.gofundme.com/f/justice-for-ellen?fbclid=IwAR1kH2pxp0jWpWBFD6tX9JfiWGCE-sKf9VrSGmjAltcz-g81mY7hVhqOcGo,  on Facebook: #Justice For Ellen Matthew Mangino – Attorney, Former District Attorney (Lawrence County); Author: “The Executioner’s Toll: The Crimes, Arrests, Trials, Appeals, Last Meals, Final Words and Executions of 46 Persons in the United States;” X: @MatthewTMangino Tom Brennan - PI Consultant for Ellen Greenberg's Family Benee Knauer – Author of “What Happened To Ellen?: An American Miscarriage of Justice” Joseph Scott Morgan – Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, “Blood Beneath My Feet,” and Host: “Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan;” Twitter/X: @JoScottForensic John Luciew [pronounced Lucy]- (Harrisburg, Pa) Journalist for PennLive.com and The Patriot-News of Harrisburg, Pa. (specializes in true crime and cold case investigations for PennLive.com); Author: “Kill the Story;” X @JohnLuciew See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A shock twist in the mystery death of a bride-to-be, a beautiful, young, first-grade teacher bride-to-be, after she's viciously stabbed 20 times, at least 20 times, including in the back of the neck, the back of the head, and it's bizarrely ruled a suicide. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. The parents of a young teacher stabbed 20 times and ruled a suicide are hit with more devastating news when the district attorney's office places their daughter's case into inactive status. In another blow to Josh and Sandy Greenberg's ongoing efforts to find justice for their daughter Ellen Greenberg, the Chester County District Attorney's Office announces that they cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt

that a crime was committed when their daughter, Ellen Greenberg, died from 20 knife wounds to the back of her head, neck, and chest. Due to this, the investigation into the death of Ellen Greenberg is now placed as inactive. Did I mention the bruising all across her body? Did I mention the bruising all across her body? Did I mention the bruising along her strap muscle? Classic size of strangulation. So wait, let me understand. She wasn't just stabbed dead at least 29 times, 20 times. I believe some of those stab wounds were overlapping. I think she could have been stabbed more than 20 times, but I will go with 20, 20 times, including a slice that cut the dura of her spine, her spinal cord. She did that to herself. Are you kidding me? Bruising about the net, even little fingernail marks around her neck. So she not only stabbed herself, but she also strangled herself. Okay. Not okay. In the last days, a bizarre twist to the case. Joining me, an all-star panel, including John Lucy, investigative journalist for PennLive.com. But first to Sandy and Josh Greenberg, Ellen's parents.

You know, when you first learned that there was going to be an announcement from the Chester County DA's, you text me when there's announcement. And for one brief shining moment, Sandy, I thought, oh, my stars, somebody is finally going to do the right thing. When did you realize that they're saying they're not doing a D-A-M-N thing? I had to release the press release at least six times and run through it over and over and over again. And what comes to mind is when you're doing an investigation and you're only looking through the peephole, that's all you're going to see. If you open the door and you look at everything, you see a whole lot more. And that speaks volumes. Yeah, Sandy, I was rereading my text from you. And I saw where you said, what does this mean? What are they trying to say?

Because it was very circuitous. To Ellen's dad joining us, Josh Greenberg, what was your response when you finally figured out what they were trying to say? I'm still not sure what they're trying to say. I think they were trying to avoid saying anything for whatever reason, which I sort of appreciate because they didn't say anything. because I believe there's a sentence after that saying that all homicide cases have unlimited time for exposure, if anything should come up. So it's sort of like the right hand says one thing, the left hand says something else, but neither one is very conclusive. I think I want to thank Chester County for doing an investigation.

I wish it was deeper and more detailed. They did give us the chance to hear what it was said before they released the press release. So we do appreciate that. But as for the depth of the investigation, shallow is not even a good word. There is no depth there. Joining me is John Lucy, investigative journalist for PennLive.com and Patriot News, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. He specializes in true crime and cold case investigations. He's author of Kill the Story. John Lucy, thank you for being with us. Yes, both Josh and Sandy are correct. It was very confusing. You know what I find, John Lucy, that people hem-haw around when they don't want to just come out and say it. What they said to my understanding is we can't prove this beyond a reasonable doubt.

And therefore we're putting it on inactive status in active. That means it is not an active, ongoing investigation. And at the end, I guess they thought they were throwing Josh and Sandy some kind of a bone. But remember, there's no statute of limitations on murder. If anybody would ever get off their rear ends and work this case, then maybe one day we'll get the answer. Basically, is what they're saying. But that person ain't going to be us. We're not doing anything.

I mean, come on. Their expert has a degree in entomology, the study of bugs. Really? Well, Nancy, here's the problem. As long as it's ruled a suicide, no DA is going to take this case. That has been the original sin of this case. Remember, when the police were called to the crime scene on January 26, 2011, Ellen's fiance intimated on that bizarre 911 call that she stabbed herself. They treated it as a suicide, a probable suicide, the night that they investigated the crime scene.

They, in fact, did not hold it as a crime scene, the apartment where she died of 20 stabbed wounds. The next day, the Philadelphia medical examiner did rule it a homicide, but that was changed three months later. And we know that there was secret meetings between detectives and the medical examiner's office that led to that change. It's remained a suicide ever since. And no DA, not the attorney general of PA who spent four years on the case, is going to change that. Because in Pennsylvania, the only one that can change the ruling of a medical examiner or coroner is that medical examiner or coroner. And that's why the Greenbergs are before the Pennsylvania Supreme Court right now trying to change that suicide ruling, because as long as this case is branded with that, it's not going to go forward. No DA is going to spend time on it

because they are right. That is reasonable doubt you could drive a truck through as long as it's a suicide. To Benay Nauer joining me, investigative reporter and co-author of What Happened to Ellen? An American Miscarriage of Justice. All proceeds from the book What Happened to Ellen? Are going to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Available April 22. That details in nearly 300 pages what you are about to hear. Bananauer, describe from your layperson point of view, the injuries to Ellen and why this is not and cannot be a suicide. Then we'll bring on the death

investigator. Hit it, Benet. All righty. First of all, Ellen was stabbed, as you said, at least 20 times. Some of those stab wounds have been brought into question whether they were done post-mortem. If they were, then Ellen could not have been alive to have done them. Some of them were described as being so profoundly painful and destabilizing that one could not continue to do anything after them. There are so many questions about these wounds. They are so brutal. The crime scene was messed with. There was not a lot of blood at the crime scene. The crime scene was never treated like a crime scene because of mishandling by the police department and who allowed family members to come in and take things, take vital things. There are so many levels of questions,

and anybody who hears this story, including the publisher of this book, keeps coming back with, no, that's not possible. Almost to the point where, are you sure? Did you check your facts? Are you sure you got this right? Because this can't be. That's what we get over and over and over. Exactly. You know, Benet, when you and I were writing the book together, I described how when I first read about this before I met Josh and Sandy,

I kept looking for that magical fact that would make me know, okay, they got it right. I'm, I'm wrong. That fact never emerged. Justice Scott Morgan is joining me, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University. And what a criminal justice program they've got going on. I was just there for the dedication of a whole new justice program facility. It's amazing. Author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, host of a hit series, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. It goes on. But for my purposes, he is a death investigator with literally thousands of death scene

investigations under his belt. Everything that B'nai Naur just said is true, but I want to hear it from a medical death investigator point of view. Joe Scott Morgan, who studied this case, not just for tonight, but helped Benet and helped me write the new book. What happened to Ellen? Exhaustive, exhaustive research he did. Okay. Joe Scott, you gave me so much information that Benet and I could hardly put it in the book. OK, because it would be a whole nother volume. But could you explain medically speaking? Forget the mishandling of the scene.

Forget that. We'll come back to that. But medically speaking, on the face of it, this is not a suicide. Why are they doing this to Ellen? I don't get it. I don't know. Having worked self-inflicted stab wounds over the course of my career, the thought that you could have this many with all of these pain centers firing at one time and layer upon layer upon layer is beyond the pale. That's what, you know, and listen, Benet had mentioned just a second ago about publishers and these sorts of

things that are talking about how they can't believe it. Nancy, I've spoken with many friends of mine, colleagues that are also forensic scientists, and they're saying that this is something that is inexplicable that they have never seen a case like this that rises to this level of violence and i will call it violence and i don't think that for any two seconds anybody worth their salt in my field would say that this is self-inflicted i don't see how in the world you can do it and we talked about the biomechanics of this. What's really kind of interesting is the idea of someone,

an individual like Ellen, being able to take this knife and essentially assault herself. This diagram beautifully done and rendered the idea that you could inflict these many insults to the posterior, that means on the backside like this, extending your arm over your shoulder. It's implausible, Nancy. This defies all laws of physical science to be able to accomplish this. And here's the big tell for me. You know, there was a member of the medical examiner staff in Philly that also gave a rendering about this case. And if I'm not mistaken, it was done as a result of a deposition. This individual actually stated that this blow that took place to the back of the neck, in her estimation at least, was an anti-mortem insult or at best a perimortem, which means in the throes of death.

So you've got the actual autopsy where the individual, the pathologist is saying, oh, no, no, no, no. This insult to the back of the neck that clips the spinal column there is post-mortem. And you can't have it both ways, Nancy, as you mentioned earlier. There's hemorrhage in there. And they think that in this physically implausible that she could have done this on her own. Josh and Sandy, I know that you are not numb, that this still hurts. But God willing, one day you will see this discussed in front of a jury. Joe Scott, look at this. You've looked at it many times, but how? And Josh and Sandy, Ellen was right-handed, correct?

Correct. Correct. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Joe Scott, number one, on the 911 call, we hear that her face is purple. I want to know why is her face purple, number one, why she's cold to the touch in that very short interval. Her body got completely cold in like an hour. But these stab wounds, that's what I really want you to talk. How can somebody right-handed stab themselves on the left side of the neck at an upward angle, right-handed? How do you take a knife and what? Okay, do that? I mean, I'm having

to use my left hand to force my right hand. And they were all across the back of her neck. Impossible for a right-handed person to do that. Yeah, it is. And every time this knife, and please, I beg forgiveness on the part of her parents here, but every time this knife is inserted, you have a pain center that fires in life. And this is almost intolerable. And the idea that you could manipulate the knife at these odd angles like this is implausible to me. And over and over and over, we're not just talking about one or two kind of passive cuts or stabs or incised areas. We're talking about multiple insertions of this knife into her body. I don't see how that is possible.

There's no way that you will ever certainly convince me. It's up to the courts as to whether or not that they're going to, well, it's up to the ME as to whether or not they're going to change a ruling on this case. And to the discoloration in her face. This is fascinating, isn't it, Nancy? You mentioned the strap muscles earlier and how there were focal, apparently focal areas of hemorrhage in those areas. And where do we see that, Nancy? When you say focal areas of hemorrhage, you mean you can see the bruises. Yes. Focal areas of hemorrhage, bruise.

Right. Yeah, where you have these in the strap muscles. Strap muscles are a configuration of four muscles that are essentially laterally oriented, kind of crisscross in this area. And it's something that we look for many times with asphyxial deaths or manual strangulation. And Joe Scott, isn't it true, as you point out, that there are fingernail marks around her neck? Yeah, that has been alluded to. And I've kind of given this primer before. But if people just kind of think about if you look at the long axis of your finger, look down it through your nail and you see how it has that kind of elliptical shape,

you'll see that transferred onto the neck most of the time when you have these nail marks. And it's quite striking, you know, when you see it. And for those of us that have spent time in the morgue, which I have for many, many years, and have worked cases out on scenes, it's glaring, you know, when you see it. And this goes again to this idea, and I know you didn't want to talk about this, but it goes to the idea of locking the scene down and securing the scene and processing it from the beginning. You know, when you have this implanted in your brain as an investigator, that this is a suicide and that's the narrative you're going to run with instead

of coming in with a clean slate and pushing everybody out of the door, working the damn scene, locking the thing down so that you can get everybody out there. You're behind the eight ball at that point in time because you've already predisposed yourself to the way you're going to look at it from a physical science perspective. She was right in the middle of making a fruit salad. In fact, her body was found with a completely clean and pristine wash rag in her left hand. And then she suddenly decides, oh, you know what? Screw the fruit salad. I'm killing myself

right now in the most painful way I possibly can. Can I please interject something here real quickly? Can I stop you? No, you can't. So for me, I've worked two cases in my career where an individual has died of self-inflicted stab wounds. I'm not talking about incised wounds where the wrist is cut. I'm talking about stab wounds. Nancy, in both of those cases, the individual was wildly psychotic in both of these cases. As a matter of fact, one guy had done it, and he was a paranoid schizophrenic,

and he thought that he was being listened to by the government. He was looking for microphones in his body. Do you understand what I'm saying here? That's the level of pain that this extends to, that you would have to be out of your mind. And to the best of my knowledge, and I've talked to Sandy and to Josh over the years since we've been covering this, there's no indication that this was going on with Ellen, that she was having some kind of psychotic break. The Chester County District Attorney's Office says detectives reviewed investigations of the case conducted by the Philadelphia Police and Attorney General's Office. The detectives also conducted new interviews and consulted with an independent forensic expert. DA's office, says this standard of proof, beyond a reasonable doubt, makes the criminal investigation

different than other legal cases or issues that surround Ms. Greenberg's death. Join us, an all-star panel, to make sense of this bizarre twist in the Ellen Greenberg murder. Yes, I said murder, because it is not a suicide. Joining me, in addition to Ellen's parents who have devoted their time, their energy, years, their life savings, they just sold their house to seek justice with a fleet of experts. To John Lucy joining me in addition to Josh and Sandy Greenberg. John, the expert that the state used, consulted with, is actually a guy that has an undergrad degree. Hey, I got an undergrad degree in Shakespearean studies, but I am not an expert. That said, really? That's what they're hanging their hat on. Well, I have to agree with Ellen, Ellen's parents here, where this investigation was shallow at best. And I certainly agree with all your experts on this panel who point up all the reasons forensically why this is a homicide, not a suicide. But, you know, as your intro talked about in Pennsylvania,

medical examiners and coroners are right, even when they are wrong under Pennsylvania law. And that is the real problem with this case. It's fighting the law, not the evidence. And that's where we're at in Pennsylvania Supreme Court, fighting the law, not the evidence. And that's where we're at in Pennsylvania Supreme Court, fighting the law, not the evidence. And that's really the problem why pretty much any investigation based on whether there was a crime committed is kind of a non-starter as long as it's branded with that suicide ruling, which I think that has to be changed first for all the other stuff that we want to happen to go forward. Tom Brennan joining me now,

a private investigator who has been working on this case with the Greenbergs from the get-go. Tom Brennan, we keep saying it's a suicide ruling. It's a suicide ruling. B.S. It was originally named within 24 hours. This is a homicide, which it is. And then, which we have documented, there was a secret meeting between the medical examiner that called it a homicide. A member from the DA's office who has now been given immunity

so she can't be prosecuted for this high immunity and people from the police department. And in that meeting, which nobody will tell us what happened. Oh, hell no. In that meeting, the ME actually says I was, what would you say? Would you say coerced? No, I was persuaded to change my ruling from homicide to suicide. It's total BS. It stinks to high heaven. What is wrong with the Chester district attorney? Do they not have any balls at all? What you have to understand, okay, with this case, it was in the Attorney General's office. The folks in the Attorney General's office were the same folks that were in the DA's office when this crime occurred. Okay? So now they're reviewing their...

So they're sticking to their story, right? Right. 4601 Flat Rock Road, please hurry. 4601 Flat Rock? Yes. What's wrong? Mike, I just, I went downstairs to go work out, I came back up, the door was latched. My fiance's inside, she wasn't answering, so after about a half hour, I decided to break it down.

I see her now, just on the floor, with blood. She's not responding. Okay, is she breathing? Yeah, I can't. Look at her chest. I need you to calm down. I need you to look at her chest. I don't think she... I really don't think she's... Listen to me. Listen to me. Someone's on the way. Look at her chest. Is she flat on her back? She's on her back. Look at her chest and tell me if it's going up and down, up and down.

I don't see her moving. Joe Scott, she wasn't exactly on her back, was she? No, she wasn't. She was not on her back. And, you know, that's something that has, you know, gotten into the narrative of this, which is quite fascinating to me. And there's one other thing that kind of really stands out about this call. What's missing as far as information goes relative to this? And it comes up a little bit later. I'm not trying to bury the lead, but what about the knife?

Yeah, a knife embedded in her chest. Listen to more of that 911. Okay, do you know how to do CPR? I don't. Okay, I'm going to tell you what to do until they get there. I want you to keep her close. Oh, more of that 911. And there Is the knife sticking out of her heart? She stabbed herself? I guess so. I don't know where she fell on it. I don't know. Okay, well, don't touch it. And there, in the 911 call, that is the first time suicide or accident is stated.

OMG, she stabbed herself. Then later, she fell on a knife. Joining me is Matthew Mangino, high profile lawyer and author of The Executioner's Toll. Matthew, former prosecutor in Lawrence County in Pennsylvania. Matthew Mangino, that's where we first hear she stabbed herself or there was an accident that she fell on the knife 20 times. Matthew, why is it that when a medical examiner admits he was pressured by police to change his ruling. And I believe Galeno, who was his supervisor, later said he would change, if he could, he would change the medical examiner decision. But why is it when it's so obviously wrong that that cannot be challenged, Matt? Well, you know, that's the law in Pennsylvania.

That's the manner in which the legislature approached this issue. I don't agree with it. You know, my impression about this is that you have a botched investigation and then you have a cover up. And that cover up by the DA's office and the police ultimately led to the attorney general reviewing this and Chester County. And I think you have to sort of read between the lines with regard to Chester County. They're saying, hey, there's problems here and we don't think we can prove this case. But, you know, there may be, you know, light at the end of the tunnel if this was properly investigated because there's no statute of limitations in Pennsylvania. Woulda, coulda, shoulda, Mangino, if it was properly investigated.

Isn't it their duty to properly investigate it? Why have Josh and Sandy had to spend their life savings and sell their home to investigate this case? Why doesn't the district attorney get off his rear end and do something? Yeah, they can't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt unless they get up and try. And I think that's one thing that they didn't count on in the situation. When they botched the investigation and then they tried to cover it up by putting pressure on the medical examiner, they never contemplated that the Greenberg family would not give up on this, that they would continue to fight and fight year after year after year. And ultimately, I think because of their

efforts, this matter can still be put on the front burner and properly investigated and brought before a jury to bring some justice to Ellen and to her family. I just can't believe it's gone on so long. And isn't it true, Benet Nauer, who extensively investigated the case herself, co-author of What Happened to Ellen? All Proceeds, Going to National Center National Center Missing Exploited Children. Repeat, all proceeds. Benet, isn't it true that Dr. Osborne's supervisor, the medical examiner, said that he would change the ruling if he could back to homicide or at least undetermined. Absolutely.

Absolutely. There has been no even signal that anybody is willing to change a single thing. It just makes everything feel messier, more questionable, more like a possible cover up. Everybody is. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I disagree. I disagree.

Because John Lucy Galino, who was Osborne, who made the ruling, boss says he would change the ruling. Osborne admits he thought it was a homicide until police and the district attorney, assistant district attorney, pressured him to change it to suicide. What else is there? That's all I need to hear. Well, my answer is someone needs to stroke a pen on the dotted line and change it then. Verbally doesn't get it done. They have to sign the document changing it back to homicide where it was the 24 hours after her death.

Ellen Greenberg's parents want to know why the judge, uncle to Ellen's fiance, was allowed to remove items from the scene before the police search. No, please don't be. What? They turned to her arm and told me she was fine to pain. She's, Ellie. She's not, it's not her arm. Her hands are still warm. I don't know what that means. But there's blood everywhere. I know, but you can't, and the knife is still inside of her.

How far? Can you see how far it went in? It looks pretty deep. Okay. It looks pretty deep. It's a long knife. Don't touch anything. Don't touch anything. I'm not touching anything. I can't believe this. Matthew Mangino joining us, high profile lawyer who prosecuted and defends in Pennsylvania, this jurisdiction. Matthew Mangino, in a nutshell, don't throw any Latin phrases at me.

What, if anything, can be done now? The AG who works for the governor, who is Shapiro, who earlier shirked his duty on this case, he's not going to confess to that now. What, if anything, can be done, Matthew? Well, I think just like any cold case, this investigation can be reinstituted. You know, the detectives can take another look at it. They can look at the evidence that was found there, although we know there's a sort of contaminated crimes. They can begin to question and canvas and go back and interview people to find out more about the dynamics of this relationship as well. I guess what I'm asking, Tom Brennan, you've been on the case from the very beginning, is, see, what he just said in an ideal world would be true, but we know that's not happening.

They're not reinvestigating it. So practically speaking, Tom, what can be done now? Did they re-interview Phil Hanton, okay, who was working in the lobby? No. Did they ever re-interview Melissa Ware, the property manager? No. Did they ever re-interview Dr. Lucy Rourke, who in the autopsy report, she's quoted as saying that the stab wounds are such that are not that grave and the victim could continue to harm herself.

And Lucy Rourke says, no, I never was involved in the case. Did they re-interview any of those people? No. Why not? If you're doing a complete, thorough investigation, why don't you go interview those people? You know, so we know that my question is, what recourse is there now? That's what I keep asking. And I'm not getting an answer.

John Lucy, is there anything that can be done now? As Brennan and Mangino just say, yeah, they could do blah, blah, blah. Yeah, that's all true, but they're not. They're not investigating this case. They're not uncovering the wrongdoing that was done at the scene when it was just taken for granted. Oh yeah, this is a suicide. Case closed. Let's go home. They authorized and even suggested a pro cleaner to clean the crime scene, getting rid of all the evidence. They said, sure, family members, not the Greenbergs, uh, family members or others can take items. Sure. They can take the laptop and all of the recent searches and the contact was, yeah, sure, take it. The police did that.

But most disturbingly is that secret meeting where the M.E. medical examiner was told, change this from homicide to suicide. And he did it. That. Why can't that be investigated? Well, I think what can be done are what Josh and Sandy are doing. They are suing the Philadelphia medical examiner and the detectives involved in the case alleging a conspiracy. They're challenging the suicide ruling at the Pennsylvania Supreme Court. And they are winning because of Tom's team and all the evidence they've amassed over 10 years.

They are winning in the court of public opinion. So they're doing everything that they can to put these guys under oath and depositions and find out what really happened at that secret meeting. They're doing that. They're trying to get this law in Pennsylvania. They're trying to find a hole in that law so that they can change the suicide ruling or vacate it. And they are putting all the evidence that they've amassed out there in the court of public opinion. And they are opening eyes again and again and the more that people hear about this case the more it stinks forensic pathologist dr wayne k ross is commissioned by the greenbergs to review the case dr ross says there's evidence of strangulation ross says there's

a mark over the front of the neck and in the strap muscles over the right side of the neck claiming these patterns are compatible with a manual strangulation. Ross also points out the number of bruises over different parts of Greenberg's body are consistent with repeated beatings. He writes, it is my opinion that the investigating authorities should pursue this case as a homicide. It is further my opinion, to a reasonable degree of medical certainty, that the manner of death is a homicide. The scene findings were indicative of a homicide. To Josh and Sandy Greenberg, who have spent years fighting this completely erroneous ruling of suicide, I don't understand why everyone within that government has teamed up to cover up this sloppy investigation. There are forces that I do not understand, but I can tell you this was not a suicide.

To you, Sandy, how do you find the strength to keep fighting? It's part of my constitution. When you love your child and you love your family, this is what you do. We've made sacrifices and we have our own feelings about you know the direction we want to go in the more they perpetuate the lies and it's in the public forum it's in the public forum. It's in the universe. Philadelphia, I cannot understand how the public in Philadelphia tolerates this type of behavior.

But the longer it goes on, the more we find out and the more their lies get deeper and deeper. And I'm not going away. And I don't know. I think they expected us to die by now. But unfortunately or fortunately, that's not the case. We're stronger than ever. And I'm not going to rest until we have resolve. You know, Josh Greenberg, whenever I feel like I've done something wrong, I feel hot all over.

I think about it over and over and over and rehash it in my mind. I don't know how they can live with themselves knowing that this was ruled a homicide and that only after a secret meeting with an ADA, assistant district attorney and law enforcement, the medical examiner says he was pressured to rule it a suicide. I mean, I don't understand how they can live with this lie. Because they're not good people. There are people in this world who are not good people,

who are just bad, good people. There are people in this world who are not good people, who are just bad, bad people. I hope every time these people look at a girl or 27-year-old woman, they see my daughter because that's what they're putting away. That's who they're chastising. That's who they're torturing. And that's who they're not giving justice to. When you think of Ellen, Josh, what is your most vivid memory? Ellen getting hit in the face by a softball and me hopping over a fence to help her because nobody else there could do it and I put ice on her and she wouldn't go to school

and her face swelled up and the only one she had there was me. You know, Josh, I just wish that right now you could hop over a fence and fix everything like you did then. I'm trying. You sure are. Sandy, when you think of Ellen, when you fall asleep at night and you think of Ellen, what is your most vivid memory? I don't know. My head is, I'm kind of worn out. Like, as long as I still want to fight, which I am, it is very emotionally taxing. Taxing to the point where I'm in physical pain in my shoulders. I can't raise my arms up comfortably

because I have so much tension. Yet I put one foot in front of the other. I try to get my rest. I try to take my supplements. I try to live a wholesome life. and I feel that justice will prevail, and there's a lot of people that can rot in hell. I pray that we get justice. I and somehow the tide will turn for Ellen. There is a court hearing December 11. And if you can hear our voices, we ask you to lift up your prayers, your good thoughts for Ellen Greenberg on this hearing, December 11. We wait and pray as justice unfolds. Thank you to Josh and Sandy for joining us and all of our guests, but especially to you for being with us and keeping Ellen's cause alive. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend.

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