Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Shocking New Evidence: Cult Mom Lori Vallow buys flip flops & Burger King while hubby #4 bleeds out dead

Episode Date: July 13, 2021

New evidence released by Arizona investigators indicates Charles Vallow's death was planned. Detailed text messages point to the idea of harming Lori Vallow's fourth husband being discussed months before he was shot by Alex Cox, who claimed self-defense. Vallow's brother, Gerry, said in an interview with EastIdahoNews.com that he was enraged by what he read in the report. A grand jury in Arizona indicted Lori Vallow for conspiracy to commit murder in Charles Vallow’s death. In May, a judge found that Lori Vallow was incompetent to stand trial and sent her to a state mental health facility for treatment. Gerry Vallow and his wife Melanie tell EastIdahoNews.com they have their doubts.Joining Nancy Grace today: Ashley Willcott - Judge and Trial Attorney, Anchor on Court TV, www.ashleywillcott.com Dr. Jeff Gardere - Board Certified Clinical Psychologist, Prof of Behavioral Medicine at Touro College of Osteopathic Medicine www.drjeffgardere.com, Author: 'The Causes of Autism” @drjeffgardere  Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Featured on "The Piketon Massacre: Return to Pike County" on iHeartRadio Nate Eaton - News Director, EastIdahoNews.com Twitter: @NateNewsNow, Instagram: @n.eaton - Instagram Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In the last hours, damning evidence revealed regarding cult mom Lori Vallow and the shooting death of one of her many husbands, Charles Vallow. Is it true she waited nearly an hour after gunning him down along with her brother to call 911? Went to go shopping for flip-flops, and even stopped for fast food. That's what I'm telling you. Cult mom Lori Vallow did a drive-by at BK Burger King. She had it her way at 8.30 in the morning while Charles Zavalo lay bleeding out.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. So have you guys had a chance to review the documents that came out today? Yes, we did. And what are your thoughts? My thoughts are that it wasn't pretty. It's kind of hard to look at to see what they're accused her and her brother and all of them of doing and it was just hard to read the true facts of what actually happened. Did it surprise you at all? Some of it did. Some of it did not.

You know, being part of the family, knowing some things and the dynamics, you know, you know, some things or some of it wasn't surprising, but some of it was right down shocking. Right down shocking. You are hearing our friend Nate Eaton from East Idaho News speaking with Charles Vallow's family, because now facts are starting to come out. And for victims' families, sometimes it's downright hard to read, hard to hear what happened to your loved one. Again, thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. With me, an all-star panel to make sense of what is going down right now in the cult mom laurie valo case first of all

ashley wilcott judge trial lawyer court tv anchor she said ashley wilcott.com dr jeff gardier board certified clinical psychologist professor behavioral medicine turow college you can find him at dr jeff gardier.com and he's the author of Causes of Autism. Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University, death investigator, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and star of a brand new hit on iHeartRadio, The Piketon Massacre Return to Pike County. But right now, to our star reporter joining us, Nate Eaton, the news director, eastidahonews.com. You can find him on Twitter, by the way, at Nate News Now.

I have to watch it all the time to keep up with what's happening with the cult mom Lori Vallow case. I mean, Nate Eaton hearing Charles Vallow. Now, let's see, that was husband four, correct? Yeah, number four. All right. When I hear his voice talking about how he could listen to some, not the rest, read some, not read the rest, it was too upsetting. What evidence did you show him?

What is he talking about? Well, these were new court documents just released from Arizona regarding Charles' death. And they came about in the probable cause statement because Lori Vallow was charged with conspiracy to commit murder. This is the first time we're hearing really any details about what happened, any significant details about what happened the day Charles died and the fact that his death was apparently planned months before he was shot and killed by Alex Cox. Yeah, you know, we could figure out a lot of it. To you, Ashley Wilcott, judge and trial lawyer, we knew that Charles Vallow, husband number four of cult mom Lori Vallow, was the father. You've got J.J. Vallow and you have Tylee, his older sister, Tylee Ryan from father Joseph Ryan. So we all thought that that day Charles Vallow had gone over for a routine pickup of little JJ, about seven years old,

got into an altercation with Vallow's, Lori Vallow's brother, Alex, and ended up getting shot dead. That's all we knew. We knew that she was laughing and joking around when cops finally got there, but the rest is all new, Ashley. Yeah, absolutely. It is all new. And Nancy, this is a case in which I think that, you know, clearly there was an investigation originally, maybe. However, as more facts come out, I think the more thorough the investigations become and looking at what really happened. Because her behavior was odd. Like you said, with the police, she was laughing. She was jovial.

She was odd. Like you said, with the police, she was laughing. She was jovial. She was joking. Knowing that her ex-husband had been killed, it's bizarre to me. But having said that, the thing that's missing in this is what kind of altercation? How did he get shot and killed? Well, another thing that we knew, Nate Eaton, by just simple deduction, is that there were only two other witnesses, Lori Vallow, Alex Cox, the brother who's now dead, and two witnesses, J.J. and Tylee, the only witnesses to Charles's death. And they're dead.

So you're saying that there is evidence now, Nate Eaton, that we're learning about because cult mom Lori Vallow has now been charged in the shooting death of husband number four, Charles Vallow. Now, this is in addition to the deaths of her own children, JJ and Tylee. Then you've got Tammy Daybell, Chad Daybell, husband number five's wife, who died in her sleep. But you're saying that this was pre-planned. Guys, I want you to take a listen to more of what Charles Vallow just shot dead, cold-blooded, shot dead.

Take a listen to what he had to say to Nate Eaton. Jerry, I remember you calling me, I think in November, asking how you could talk to Lori. Are you wondering if there would be a way that you could connect with her in the jail? And we spoke. That may have been the time that you were in that fit of rage that you just wanted. I think you told me you wanted to punch her, to put it nicely. Well, I don't hit girls, number one.

But if I were to hit any girl girl I'd punch her in the throat but if I would just like to sit down and look at her in the eye and talk to her I really would what would you talk about I would tell her that she's not some reincarnated deity that she's not some God on earth that's going to lead all the people to the end of the world when Jesus comes. And the creator of the universe will judge her, not me. You are hearing Charles Vallow's brother, Jerry, speaking to Nate Eaton, and he goes on about how he is not a judge. Listen. I'm not a judge. I don't hate. I don't allow that emotion in my heart. And there's probably a few things I'd say to her,

but my main rage, Nate, would be if Alex was still alive. My wife doesn't know this, but I almost didn't, but I wanted to go to Arizona and find Alex when he didn't know I was there and take a little baseball bat to his ass. You know, to you, Dr. Jeff Gardere, clinical psychologist, professor, Turo, Dr. Gardere, we're seeing all the phases of grief right here. Now, I'm just a trial lawyer, but you know them very well. And I would say that right now, Charles Vallow's family is in the anger phase. Absolutely. And as much as

Jerry talks about that, he doesn't want to be a judge or a jury or executioner. That anger is seething. And the more he thinks about what has happened to his brother and the rest of the family, it's just hard for him to control it. And you know what, Nancy, it's good that he's talking about it. And it's good that he's able to express that rage and anger because so many people that are part of this case, part of this family, they don't know what to do with their emotions because things continue to evolve and answers are just not coming. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In the last hours, everyone, we are getting more of a look at what was going through cult mom Lori Vallow's mind when she, along with her brother, conspired

to gun down her then fourth husband, Charles Vallow, little JJ's father. Take a listen to our friends at KTVB 7 News. Prosecutors in Arizona declined to charge Chad Daybell in connection to Vallow's fourth husband, Charles Vallow. And this comes after Chandler police charged Lori Vallow and her brother, Alex, in his death. And all of this stems from a probable cause released last week. The 13-page probable cause outlines text messages and online records of the days and minutes leading to the death of Charles Vallow. Investigators say Lori's brother, Alex Cox, shot and killed her fourth husband in July of 2019. Alex claimed it was self-defense. The probable cause revealing Alex waited nearly 45 minutes to call 911. Investigators say Alex made

no effort to provide aid despite the dispatcher giving him CPR instructions over the phone. Chandler police say phone records also showed Alex called Lori before he called 911. Just part of the evidence Chandler police used to charge Lori in Charles' death. Straight back out to the news director, EastIdahoNews.com, Nate Eaton. Nate, let's go through what we know happened the day that Charles Vallow was gunned down. Now, for those of you just joining us, another murder has been added on to cult mom Lori Vallow's body count. You've got seven-year-old JJ. You've got the teen daughter, Tylee.

You've got Tammy Daybell, her new husband's wife, who was perfectly healthy until the two of them decided to get married. And now you've got Charles Vallow. Tell me about the evidence that is backing up the claim that she conspired to murder Charles Vallow. Well, six months before Charles died, there was a text message that Lori sent to a friend. We don't know that friend's name. It's been redacted in court documents. She said something to the effect that Charles is blocking her spiritual gifts. And she started calling Charles Hiplos or Ned,

two different names that he had turned into a dark spirit. Can you spell that please? Are you saying H-I-P-L-O? Yes, Hiplos. Not sure the origins of that, but this became Charles's name, they said, when he became possessed by this dark spirit. So they had this name for Charles, Hiplos, that began six months before he died. Fast forward a month before he dies, Lori texts a friend, says something like,

just got home, got JJ to sleep. Let's go spiritually tonight and work on him, assuming Charles. We give the timing to the Lord, but we don't need to relent. This is war. Month later, the day comes. Charles arrives to pick up J.J. He was going to go out and have a fun day with his son. He arrives at the home where Alex Cox is, and according to investigators, Cox shot him, but waited about an hour to report the incident. Meanwhile, Lori takes off with JJ, goes to Walgreens to buy flip-flops, stops by Burger King to get food for JJ, returns home at 8.48, an hour,

nearly an hour after Charles is shot. And not only was Charles shot once, Nancy, by Alex, but according to these documents, Alex shot him. He was lying on the floor when Alex then shot him again. So he was in a obviously a vulnerable state. He was not, you know, trying to charge at Alex at that point. So Lori arrived home. Alex had been called police. And according to these documents, he said he was doing CPR. He was doing life saving measures. But that was not the case.

How do we know he was not life-saving? Well, according to the police, when they got there, they began life-saving measures, and they said that nobody had worked on his body. They were able to tell that nothing had been done on his body at that point. To Joe Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, and star of the Piketon Massacre on iHeartRadio, Joe Scott, how can a coroner or a medical examiner, a death investigator like yourself, go to the scene and figure out that husband number four, Charles Vallow, was shot once while standing and once for the second time while he was already lying on the floor?

Well, it goes to trajectory, Nancy, the path that the bullet takes. And I'm going to stop calling Charles Vallow's death simply a murder. This is an execution, Nancy. This is what this comes down to. And kind of let me tell you what happened, in my opinion at least. This idea of advancing on him, on Alex, and then Alex has to kind of thwart this perceived attack. What apparently happened is that he aggressor, who is Alex, stood over the body and fired down into the body. This is after this man has already sustained what is more than likely a fatal gunshot wound.

And here's what they found on the floor, Nancy. That's what I was about to say, Joe Scott, because you could get that same trajectory path, which for those of you that haven't had to study trajectory paths, and I hope that's all of you, of bullets, trajectory path just very simply means the direction that the bullet takes through the body. For instance, if you're shot in the head, it's a trajectory path from the chin to the head, the scalp. That's the trajectory path. That's how it would work, say, from right to left, from down to up at an 80-degree angle.

That's what we mean. And I was wondering, Joe Scott Morgan, if you couldn't get the same trajectory path if Alex Cox, the brother, had shot him straight on, head on, through the chest and was hoping that there would be evidence on the floor under him, ballistics evidence, to show that's how they could prove he was lying on the ground. Yeah, and this is what they found. What they found at the scene beneath his body is what's called a bullet strike. So what this implies is that as he's standing over this poor man,

who has already been shot, mind you, and if we believe what we're hearing in front of witnesses, these kids, he is then shot down, they fired down into his body and the bullet actually passes through the body and strikes the floor underneath you don't get that from standing up okay you don't get that from standing up this is an out and out execution of a defenseless man to the best of our knowledge that wasn't armed with a handgun. And that's what's so horrible about this. She talked about war. She brought it to him. I mean, they brought it to him and they slaughtered this guy. Did they lure him over, Nate Eaton,

or was he there for a scheduled pickup or visitation? Well, according to the documents, he had been concerned for Lori's health, obviously, for some time, her mental health. And he was apparently discussing with her other brother, not Alex, but Adam, kind of an intervention. They wanted to do something to get Lori help. So he had come to town. And meanwhile, behind the scenes, Lori and Alex are scheming to do something about Charles to take his life. So he went over to pick JJ up. They knew that he was coming. He was aware that they knew he was coming. So it was kind of a planned arrangement. Obviously, he had no idea that he was going to be shot and killed.

You know, when you're talking about mental health, the first thing that Lori Vallow could have done is to quit sleeping with another woman's husband. We could just start right there. So please just don't start preaching mental health to me. I think, however, Nate Eaton, that the fourth husband, Charles Vallow, was worried about his child and was worried about her talk of saving the 140 plus thousand chosen at the end of the earth, which was supposed to happen, I think, a year ago, last July, right? Yeah, last July. Oh, Ned, he was scared to death for his son.

He went to the police multiple times saying, my wife has gone crazy. She's calling me Ned. She's, you know, saying that I'm possessed. And you mentioned her, you know, sleeping with Chad. Well, right after Charles was killed, Chad texts Lori and says he had inspiration about death percentages and says, Tammy's death is very close. Her percentage has fallen steadily since Hiplos slept. It is encouraging, followed by a heart and lip emoji. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Guys, the more evidence that comes out, the more disgusted a jury will ultimately be. Did you hear what Nate Eaton just said from East Idaho News? That after Charles Vallow is gunned down at Lori Vallow's home, she goes and shops for flip-flops, waits almost an hour to call 911, and even stops for a drive-by at Burger King. It obviously did not affect her appetite that she had just lured her husband over

so he could get shot dead. Now, you're hearing Nate Eaton talk about evidence, which is my favorite thing to talk about when it comes to a murder trial, the evidence. How can you marshal your evidence to prove this case? Well, I've got a pretty good idea. Take a listen to our Cut 13. This is KTVB. Chandler, police say text messages between Lori and Chad after the shooting talked about, quote, death percentages in relation to Charles and Chad's first wife, Tammy, who died in October of 2019, which had some wondering if he, too, would be prosecuted in connection to Charles' death. But on Wednesday, the Maricopa County Attorney's Office in Arizona announced it reviewed the charge submitted against Chad Daybell and have declined prosecution, stating there was no reasonable likelihood of conviction. Alex died five months after Charles in December of 2019.

A medical examiner ruled he died of natural causes. All this coming to light after Lori's children, JJ and Tylee, were reported missing in September of 2019. And take a look at what suggested Lom Fox 10 Phoenix, our cut 15. Detectives discussed digital evidence indicating the killing was intended, part of a master plan. Police say one alleged message from Daybell to Valo reads, I got the inspiration to go back to my original death percentages that helped us track Charles, Ned, etc. Tammy is very close. Her percentage has fallen steadily since Hiplos left. Says I'm Nick Snyder. I've taken over Charles's body. Documents say Lori's religious circle

referred to her ex as a dark spirit named Ned or Hiplos and two witnesses told police that Lori got her advice and direction from Chad Daybell. Detectives conclude Daybell was aware of the work Lori did on Charles leading up to his death. Daybell has already pleaded not guilty to the charges he's accused of in Idaho. Lori Vallow's case is meanwhile on hold right now as she's in the custody of the state's health department deemed incompetent and unfit for trial. You know, I want to ask you, Nate Eaton, what does that mean? Chad Daybell was aware of the, quote, work Lori had done on Charles. Well, she was chatting with friends through text messages that they were doing spiritual work on him. One of her friends claimed that she could control the weather.

I mean, this sounds like it's out of a science fiction movie, honestly. But they were chatting back and, we know he was involved, but we don't think that there is enough solid evidence, like you mentioned, that we could charge him in Arizona for conspiracy to commit murder for Charles. So he was aware, getting text messages, communicating with them, but it sounds like they don't have enough to actually charge him at this point. Well, don't we also learn that Chad Daybell was directing her in what to do? Sometimes that's called a mastermind. He was. And back, one of her close friends told me about a year ago that when Charles first approached Lori and said that, sorry, when Chad first approached Lori and said Charles had become dark, he'd become a zombie, Lori actually had a problem with that in the beginning. She was not comforted by that.

Eventually, she did come around to the fact that her husband, according to them, had indeed become dark. And thus, the plan went forward to take his life. Nate, what more did we learn from this treasure trove of documents? Lori and Chad and a few others, including Alex Cox's wife, were communicating a lot in text messages. And we've said that from the beginning. In this entire case, the circumstantial evidence that the police have is mind-blowing. These people were texting. They left a digital footprint everywhere they went. And the Arizona police released just a few of these little nuggets, these little text messages throughout of Lori saying that, you know, God is leading her to do these things, that she will be like prophets of old and do as she is told. That she, according to these texts, really felt that God was in charge of this entire plan as they went about taking these lives. That is no defense under the law to trial attorney, judge, Court TV anchor, Ashley Wilcott.

And that's just like saying I was voluntarily intoxicated. That's not a defense under the law. Everybody down at the jail right now would claim they were drunk when they committed child molestation, rape, arson, murder, you name it, selling dope. We were all drunk. Let us out. That's the same thing here.

In fact, the indictment is very clear that the grand jury believed that Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell used their religion as a cloak to justify murder. Right. And so you're right. Number one, it's not a defense. And just like ignorance of the law is not a defense.

It's not a defense to say I was following my religious beliefs because regardless of what you claim to be religious beliefs, laws have been broken. There's multiple murders of multiple individuals, including two children. And not only that, Nancy, but like you already pointed out, they're using it as an excuse to engage in immoral, illegal, not appropriate activity. Don't forget, like you said, sleeping with a married man, a man sleeping with a married woman. I mean, these are the things that they're doing under the auspice of, oh, it's our religion, but it's not a legal defense, thank

goodness. And to you, Dr. Jeff Gardere, we know that cult mom Lori Vallow is going to try and claim one incompetence to stand trial, which simply means at the time of trial, you are mentally incapable of helping your lawyer in your defense. She will try insanity, which means she did not know right from wrong at the time of all of these murders. But so-called radical beliefs are choosing to really create a religion and tell a jury that your religion directed you to murder your children and your husband, and you're a love rival, and it goes on and on and on. That's not going to work. But what about, go with me, go with me, Dr. Jeff Cardere, some sort of brainwashing, some sort of, for instance, Stockholm Syndrome, where Lori Vallow had been brainwashed by Chad Daybell. Yeah, you bring up a lot of great points, and I actually wrote down on my...

I don't like it when you say that, because I know you're going to say, but, go ahead. No, no, no, no, but here, I believe you are absolutely right. There's a difference between radical beliefs, extreme religious beliefs, and a psychosis. And from what I can tell, I haven't examined anyone, of course, here in this case, but this is not a psychosis. These people understand where they are, what it is that they're doing, the difference between right and wrong, and certainly have intent. So they couldn't use that, as far as I'm concerned, as an insanity defense. And when we talk about this brainwashing, I believe, yes, that may play a role here between Laurie and

Chad. But let's also not forget that Laurie, for a very long time, was reading Chad Daybell's books and was appeared to be quite smitten with him as an author and buying into that belief system. So if there was a brainwashing, then it came along very, very easily because the table was already set in Laurie Vallow's mind. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm going to circle back to you, Joe Scott Morgan, on the 43 minutes that Charles Valli died bleeding out on the floor. But, Nate Eaton, I want to talk to you about one particular sentence that really stands out to me in this new set of documents we've gotten, a probable cause affidavit leading to the arrest or the charging of cult mom Lori Vallow and the murder of husband number four, Charles Vallow. Okay, you mentioned Nate Eaton just got home and got JJ to sleep.

Let's go spiritually tonight and work on him, Charles Vallow. We give the timing to the Lord, but we don't need to relent. This is war. Then somebody texts Lori Vallow saying, oh, and can you meet me at the temple in the morning? I have time tomorrow and we can work on Hiplos. That is her crazy name for one of her victims, husband Charles Valley. How do we know they weren't not just praying about him, but plotting his murder? They very likely were.

And, you know, there's talk of going to the temple, spiritually working on him. I've been told by countless investigators investigators when it comes down to this, this is about sex and money. Oh, yeah. Are you talking about that $4,000 that cult mom Lori Vallow determined she would get in Social Security if Charles Vallow died? And there are computer records showing her searches. One week, one week after Charles died, she texted Chad, according to these documents. So I talked to the insurance company. He, meaning Charles, changed it in March. So it was probably Ned before we got rid of him.

They can't tell me to who, of course, but it's done. I'll still get the $4,000 a month from Social Security. Well, we know she's talking about the million-dollar life insurance policy that she originally was the benefactor from, but when Charles became worried that something might happen, he changed that benefactor to Kay Woodcock, his sister. And Lori confronted Kay about that one week after Kay's brother, Charles, dies and says, his sister gets all the money and I'm left with the kids and nothing. So there's text evidence there that says that they definitely were thinking about finances. Now tell me the day that Charles Vallow was gunned down. Was it July

11? July 11th and then that text was sent on the 18th. In June, June, investigators say Lori Vallow searched the Internet for Social Security disability information. There was a message sent to Chad where she said she determined she would get $4,000 a month in Social Security if Vallow died. Was that before or after his shooting? Which June are we talking about? So that was before. She did search the internet before. There you go. She made an appointment

to go down and talk to the Social Security benefit because Kylie was now without a father. So that's why she got the $4,000 a month. Joe Scott Morgan, as I like to say to a jury, there you go. The month before he died, four weeks before he died, she was hunched over a computer, calculator in hand, trying to figure out how much money she would get if he's dead. And then, bam, she has him come over to the home while she's

there and he gets shot. I mean, two and two still equals four, right? Yeah. And, you know, I guess she's still saying that God's in all these details, right? She's sitting here and she's plotting, she's planning. This is, again, I'll go back to what I earlier said, Nancy. This is an execution. And I think that many people believe, unfortunately, because of media and this sort of thing, when someone is shot, that they die immediately, unless you score a headshot, which means like it to the skull. That's just not the case. This guy languished for a while. And here's what I was thinking when he was shot that initial time for this,

you know, advancing theory that they had put forward in the beginning, and he's down on the floor, why do you have the need to shoot him again? Well, I can tell you why. He's probably writhing around. He's probably shot in the trunk, in the chest or the abdomen, and he's writhing around on the ground. And he's bleeding out internally, Nancy. Do you realize what kind of cold, cowardly event this is in order to shoot and facilitate and encourage the shooting of the man that you have had children with in front of his children, if we're to believe that? And he shot this guy, and he's standing over him.

He's watching him bleed out on the ground, Nancy. And then he pumps another round into him. Now, we don't know where these rounds are oriented, but I do know this. It's telling when they say that there were no resuscitative efforts made. When I show up at scenes, Nancy, as a death investigator, you can tell when people have attempted to resuscitate somebody, particularly an individual that has been shot, because listen, there is a hole in the body. There will be blood everywhere,

even more blood than somebody that's just naturally breathing out. If you're doing chest compressions, they're also spitting up blood. You know, the person that will try to do this will be covered in blood. They didn't see any evidence of that. This goes to how cold, how cold and how cruel this whole thing is. And this timeline that you're establishing with all the text and then go back a month. And she's sitting there trying to determine how she's going to get Social Security benefits for this child. And it's not for the child.

It's for her and her laptop. I hope you're sitting down. You may need to security benefits for this child and it's not for the child it's for her i hope you're sitting down you may need to lay down for this nate eat news director east idaho news.com aren't you leaving something out i know you mentioned the that uh charles valo had planned an intervention with laurie valo about her belief that she was um a goddess isn't it true that just two days before Vallow was shot and killed, cult mom Lori Vallow discovered that he had planned this intervention and had asked her to come clean about her relationship with Chad Daybell or he would tell Tammy Daybell they were having a sex affair. That's exactly right.

According to these documents, Charles was aware that Lori was having this affair and he wanted to reach out to Tammy in Idaho and let her know what was happening. And that's when things seemed to accelerate, even the day before. So this was two, you mentioned that, that was two days before Charles died. The day before she's texting somebody, we don't know who, saying, you can't go. Somebody was supposed to go to Utah for a wedding from Arizona.

She texted this friend and said, you can't go. We both need to stay here to defend ourselves. It's coming to a head. This week will change everything. I'm getting sleepy. Come by the house tomorrow. I will be, I will do as I am told and so will you. So it's almost as if it's 48 hours when Charles is planning an intervention. He confronts Lori about the affair. He plans to go to Charles, to Chad's wife. The plan accelerates and Lori thinks, I got to do something. Hey, Nate, do you think there's any chance somebody told Tammy Daybell, like Charles?

You know, I've asked Tammy's family if they think Tammy knew. They said that she never mentioned anything to them, and she was very close with her sister. And her sister said she didn't know anything. Now, there is a chance that she was embarrassed, that she didn't want to talk about this, that she was trying to figure it out. We do know that a week or two before she died, Tammy went by herself to spend some time with her family without Chad, without any of the kids, and they had a great time. There's a chance she knew, but as far as her extended family members tell me that they, she never mentioned anything to them. So Nate Eaton, eastidahonews.com on the case in the very beginning, I thought maybe there would be a

surprise in this, but it's the same old thing, sex and money think i think the most surprising thing is the fact that the police and maybe we shouldn't be surprised because they've said this from the beginning but they have minute by minute text messages that lay out the case for the prosecutor so it seems and if someone is one legal expert told me if you're their defense attorneys right now, you start talking, trying to talk a plea agreement. Because if this is just a snapshot of the evidence they have, imagine what they can present at trial. Nate, doesn't that jurisdiction have the death penalty? I mean, how many dead bodies does it take to get the death penalty? The prosecutor has 60 days from the day of arraignment to declare if they're going for the death penalty.

Including your own children? Tammy Daybill in her sleep? I mean, what more do you have to do there? Plan a bomb? I believe the prosecutor will go for the death penalty. But right now, Lori's case, everything is on hold. So nothing can progress there until she is deemed competent, which could come as early as the fall or could come in 10 years. You just never know. There is no insanity defense in Idaho. She cannot plead insane. As for Chad, we should know in the next 30 days if the prosecutor intends to go for the death penalty. Well, you can't seek it on one and not the other. They're both they're both stewing together in the same pot.

Yeah, I would imagine if they go for one, they're going to go for both. Right now, I'm just trying to make sense of all this new evidence showing cult mom Lori Vallow planning, scheming to murder husband number four, Charles Vallow, and did it while J.J. and Tylee were there in the home to witness it. We wait as justice, God willing, unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend.

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