Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Shocking! Serial killers marry, conceive children behind bars.

Episode Date: April 8, 2020

From Ted Bundy to the Menendez Brothers, serial killers are getting married behind bars.Joining Nancy Grace to discuss: Darryl Cohen, Former Assistant District Attorney, Fulton County, Georgia, Defense Attorney  Bruce Johnson - owner ISP Investigations-Master Sgt Region One Crime Scene Commander, Chicago Metro Area (Ret) Joseph Scott Morgan - Forensic Expert, Professor of Forensics, Author,"Blood Beneath My Feet" Dr Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Beverly Hills, www.drbethanymarshall.com Levi Page - Investigative reporter Crime Online  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Lee Boyd Malvo, Ted Bundy, Jorn Vandersloot, the Evil Menendez Brothers, Richard Ramirez. Remember the Night Stalker? They're all married. They got married behind bars. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Ten dead bodies. That we know of. I remember being in D.C. at the time of the D.C. sniper scare. The whole metro area living in fear. Who would be gunned down next at the airport, going to Home Depot, in the parking lot of the

grocery store, on the street, in your yard? Who would be next? The sniping murders were calculated, but seemingly random. No one knew who would be shot down dead next. Mothers, brothers, fathers, sons, daughters, dead, but at the hands of whom? Well, now we know, and the very latest, the D.C. sniper is enjoying wedded bliss behind bars. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Let's go straight out to ABC News correspondent Barry Serafin. The shooting started yesterday at 5 20 p.m. A bullet went through a window of this store narrowly missing a clerk inside. It was the only miss. At 6 0 4 p.m. A middle-aged white man was killed outside of the supermarket. This morning

the murders resumed. At 7 41 a.m., another white man mowing his lawn. At 8.12 a.m., an Indian man gassing up his cab. Minutes later, at 8.37, an Hispanic woman sitting, reading a book on a bench outside of a restaurant. The young lady that I just seen about five minutes or ten minutes ago off the bus was laying right there, and it was just terrible. Just over an hour later, at 9.58 a.m. Another single bullet. Another victim. A woman cleaning her car at a gas station. All together six shots. Five apparently random victims within 16 hours. Police are stopped. Nothing like this has ever happened in Montgomery County. This is a very safe community. Our homicide rate just increased by 25% in one day.

A D.C. sniper married behind bars? What's next? A family? A ranch? I don't get it. I can just see a ranch-style home in the D.C. suburbs. How is this happening? You may wonder why did Barry Serafin keep pointing out the race and the sex of the victims. I'll tell you why. Because typically a serial killer kills within their own race. Here's with me an all-star panel to break it down and put it back together again. First of all, renowned defense attorney, former prosecutor in the Atlanta jurisdiction, but all across the country, Daryl Cohen. Bruce Johnson, owner of ISP Investigations, former sergeant, Chicago Metro.

Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, psychoanalyst to the stars, Dr. Bethany Marshall, joining us from Beverly Hills. You can find her at drbethanymarshall.com. And Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. I can't wait to hear all the wedding details from D.C. Sniper to Ted Bundy to the Menendez brothers. They're getting married and even having children from behind bars. But back to the crime, why is it to Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, joining me out of Beverly Hills, Why is it that serial killers, particularly, and very often killers, murder within their own race? Why is that? I think because they

fetishize the victims from very early in life, meaning that the preoccupation to kill begins to be fixated on a certain victim type. Well, that starts so early in life, that's going to start within their own socioeconomic, ethnic, racial group. It doesn't change over time. And that's why the D.C. snipers were so unusual, because they went outside that small group in which they were raised. But remember, they also were from another country, right? So they came here from another country and they couldn't stick within that specific group because they were immigrants. And they were more like a thrill kill, spree killers. So they just aimed and shot at everyone. You know, that's a really good point that they had immigrated sometime back and had they had immigrated and then integrated within their community.

And you heard them say this white male was cutting his grass. This Hispanic lady was just sitting there reading a book outdoors. It went on and on and on. And that's typically, is it not to Joseph Scott Morgan, one of the ways of gender and races, it was very hard to pinpoint the profile of a suspect. Yeah, it is very difficult. And I even remember back in time when Chief Moose, if you remember that name, he held a press conference at one point in time and said that they were specifically looking for a white male driving a white panel van. And he made some very controversial – You can say that about any number of crimes, though, right, Joe Scott? It's always a freaky white male in a white van. Yeah, and I know that you do.

The times I've been to D.C., I think about that that and I think about all the white panel vans that are everywhere. It created an absolute nightmare for our friends in Virginia, Maryland and the D.C. area because they were going around stopping these vans, trying to determine who owned them, what their purpose was out there. People were in utter terror. I remember. And Daryl Cohen, living in New York, I would travel to D.C., believe it or not, almost every weekday as soon as I got off court TV. Because little known fact, most of Larry King's. Larry was typically in California. He had a skeleton crew in New York, but the bulk of his staff was in D.C. So when I would guest host for Larry, I would fly every day. I remember trying to get to the airport after I got off Court TV, get to LaGuardia and get to D.C. And I would step out of that airport and look around and think, oh, dear Lord in heaven. During the sniper crisis.

Here's my question to you, Daryl Cohen, former prosecutor, now defense attorney. Have you ever had a serial killer that you prosecuted or defended that killed outside their race? I don't mean a one-off, one murder. I mean somebody. Yes. I don't need a shrink.off, one murder. I mean somebody. Yes, I don't need a shrink. Sorry, Dr. Bethany. Or let me say a profiler to tell me that because I just know it because of all the cases we've handled. No, Nancy, I haven't.

And let me say this. I think profilers are wonderful and you guys do a great job. They are. But you need eyewitnesses. You need snitches. You need all sorts of people to help you locate and arrest the killer. And that's really primary, regardless of anything else. Because as long as he is out there and shooting randomly and at the time everyone thought it was random i had a friend that worked for a tv station she was petrified petrified and so no i've never seen other than him someone what appeared to be random because they all

use their own race because they for whatever reason don't know why i just know that it's true i don't really understand exactly how the phone or the tv or the wireless works but i know that it works just like i know serial killers and very often serial rapists but typically serial killers kill within their own right that that's not even the bombshell the bombshell is this guy is now married what are they planning a family but more insight into who the dc sniper is take a listen again to abc's barry seraphine law enforcement sources say the weapon was a high power rifle fired in some cases at least from a distance. We feel like we probably have a skilled shooter and that does heighten our concern. Police have had little to go on, only one witness' description of two people in a white

truck speeding away from one murder scene. Police are stopping white trucks and vans but have not found any suspects. That has made the community nervous. One hundred forty thousand school children in Montgomery County were kept indoors through not found any suspects. That has made the community nervous. 140,000 schoolchildren in Montgomery County were kept indoors through the day, and police were on hand when schools let out. The massive manhunt continues, but Peter, police admit they don't know who or what they're dealing with or what their motive might be. crime stories with nancy grace take a listen to our friend tim williams at 13 w j z the man serving a life sentence in prison for his role in the 2002 sniper spree that

terrorized Washington, D.C. is now a married man. Officials confirm Leiboyd Malvo married a woman earlier this month at Red Onion State Prison in Virginia. The bride has not been identified. Rules in Virginia regulate inmate weddings. Witnesses and guests are restricted to a maximum of six and refreshments must be from the prison vending machines. Boo hoo. Wah. They have to get their refreshments from the vending machine. Why are they allowed to get married? Levi Page, Climb Online investigative reporter.

Levi, how many people did the D.C. snipers kill? So Nancy, he killed 10 people. There were two of them, and they injured three people. And Nancy, even an FBI agent was killed. An FBI agent was killed near their home in Falls Church, Virginia. So there were all sorts of people killed. One woman was killed loading groceries into her van. Another one was killed walking across a parking lot.

A man was killed outside of a steakhouse. And this went on for about a month from October 2nd until October 24th in 2002 when Muhammad and Malvo were arrested. You just sparked a memory with me. A lot of you remember my dad, Mac, and he worked for the railroad, and he would do all tricks. That's what he called them. Sometimes he'd be on the night shift. Sometimes he'd be early morning shift, but one night, two nights a week, he would be gone till seven or eight o'clock in the morning. And my mother and my sister, Jenny and I, big deal, would go to Ponderosa Steakhouse.

Do you remember those Jackie? And you could get, okay, just go with me, a filet, a salad and baked potato for, I think it was $5.99. Woo! Okay, so we would do that when my dad was gone. And it was a steakhouse. And the three of us would just walk out to our car, thinking nothing of it, and go back home. I'm just thinking about this guy walking out of a steakhouse and the one woman sitting outside reading a book. Just gunned down for no, with no rhyme or reason. And now this guy is married behind bars. And to Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. The woman the D.C. sniper marries is a wealthy, quote, trust fund baby and activist who has to Bernie Sanders. Now, I don't care about Bernie Sanders or Biden or Trump. To me, they're all lying. I tell you that it's me, they're all lying.

I hate to tell you that. It's true. They're all lying. You're just going to have to hold your nose and get in the voting booth and pick somebody who is the least disturbing. So it's not about Sanders. This is not about politics. What I'm saying is this is a woman who married Lee Boyd Malvo, the D.C. sniper. And she's clearly had every advantage, money, wealth, education could buy her.

What is wrong with her, Dr. Bethany Marshall? You know, Nancy, I'm going to quote my favorite researcher, Reed Malloy, once again, because he has a whole chapter in his book, Violent Attachments, that addresses this issue of women who fall in love with men behind bars. Did you say Reid Molloy? R-E-I-D Molloy, M-E-L-L-O-Y. I'll send you his book. It's Violent Attachments. It's four different violent attachment styles between women and the perpetrators. And one is women who fall in love with men behind bars. And his theory, he has a couple.

One is their refusal to put their thoughts together about the nature of the crimes of the man. We saw this was Richard Ramirez, the Night Stalker's wife, said that he did not commit the crimes. The second is that they, some of them grew up in violent households where violence and love were fused and they were seen as one of the same. But this woman defies both of those theories. She seems like she grew up in a fluid family. She has resources. She has her mental health, such to the extent that she can try to contribute to society. So I would say she's one of those outliers who just wants somebody who's behind bars because she can track him and know where he is at all times. You know, some people are profoundly insecure. And the idea of marrying somebody or connecting with somebody who's free

to roam the world and have friends and be their own person it's just they can't do it can i just hey guys i disagree bethany and i wait a minute daryl i was about to give love advice okay can you just put a pin in at one moment because Because Dr. Bethany, you're the shrink. I'm just a JD, okay? But if you have to worry about where your husband or boyfriend is, then that's the wrong guy for you. And you're not wrong. He or she has probably given you a reason to think, wow, are they really at work? Are they somewhere else? Are they shacked up in a hotel?

Are they at somebody's apartment? If you you think that you have the wrong guy i'm just telling you and it's not necessarily your fault you're not being suspicious and crazy something has made you think that i want so if you have to have a guy bucked up in jail to feel good about it. I think you guys are going down the wrong road. That's crazy talk. Okay, Daryl, you're quite the Lothario in your earlier days before your very happy marriage right now. Jump in. I think that we're looking at cult, cult, cult, and charisma.

And there are people who want, for whatever reason, they want to be part of this cult, whether it was Manson, whether it was Bundy, and they acquire, that is, the people incarcerated for murder have acquired the charisma after the cult. part of their psychic and I wish I was smart enough and educated enough on the psychological side but I think from the logical side from what we can see they are looking for their place in history well they certainly have it I just agree with you from a from a logical perspective you're probably a thousand percent right from the other side but you just had to just throw that in just like I had to throw in the story about the steakhouse okay it happens and isn't it true uh bruce johnson owner isp investigations former master sergeant chicago metro area police when you're sitting around the table or in the break room i don't remember us having a break room but i do remember sitting

around the research table up on the, what was it, ninth floor, Darrell, where appeals was? Yep. And talking about case. Research was the cafeteria. Yes, that would be our table. And talking, this is exactly what it's like when you dissect a case. You end up talking about trust fund babies and steakhouses you used to go to 20 years ago. Bruce Johnson, at the end of all the talking and theorizing, you end up with a theory on the case. But I still don't understand this woman, rich, educated, the works, marrying a guy. And P.S., Bruce Johnson, I hope you're sitting down. He's eligible for parole in less than two years, 2020.

Ten dead people, he's up for parole 2020. What about it, Bruce Johnson? Well, again, it's socializing. They want that popularity. They want to be linked to a celebrity. You know, in Illinois, we had the same thing with Drew Peterson. He had, I want to say, three or four girlfriends, and he got married in jail. He couldn't get the women to not come to the cell.

So for whatever reason that it is, it's that social stigmatism that they want that celebrity status. They want to be linked to that person for whatever, and they don't really care about the crime. But as far as the other stuff with the incarceration, you know, we've been talking about this. You had a couple series on it with the no cash bail. And that's where this is going. All this stuff is socializing the prison system and socializing the justice system. That's where it's going. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Guys, how do serial killers end up getting married and planning families from behind bars? I don't get it. But it's not just the D.C. sniper, Malvo, who is set to be released in 2020 in less than two years. Take a listen to this 911 call. What's the problem? I was trying to kill my parents. Were they shot? Yes.

Twelve shots in the middle of Beverly Hills on a Sunday night, and no one calls the police. We're waiting at the house. No one shows up. And I still can't believe it. I'm sitting on the stairs afterwards thinking the police are going to be there in seconds. They've got roving patrol. And people, many, many people did hear the shots. Many neighbors came in and said they heard all these shots, but nobody called because they just figured this is Beverly Hills. This doesn't happen in

Beverly Hills. You were hearing a snippet of the 911 call the night of Menendez. And let me know who that was speaking, Jackie, because they really hit the nail on the head. Levi Page, now the Menendez brothers, also married behind bars. But just refresh my recollection on the Menendez brothers' crimes. Murdered their dad and their mom, Kitty. Yeah, so the Menendez brothers were very wealthy and they barged into their parents' Beverly Hills mansion. Whoa, wait a minute. They weren't wealthy.

Their parents were wealthy. And you know why their parents were wealthy? Because they worked like dogs to amass money for the Menendez brothers to run through as soon as they murdered their parents. and they went on a spending spree with their money after the murder. And Lyle Mendez, he's been behind bars for 31 years, and he is on life number two. He was married for 16 years and had a woman that visited him every weekend in prison. Her name was Rebecca, and he told People magazine in 2017 that he and his wife probably have better conversations than most married couples do because it's just the two of them and there's no distractions when they get to visit each

other and he's on life number two in whoa wait a minute wait a minute Bethany Bethany Marshall dr.any Marshall, did you hear that? Yes, I did. These guys gunned down their mom and dad as they're sitting there watching TV, eating ice cream. Carry on cry to the police. Then they run out, buy sports cars, get a private tennis coach, buy expensive watches, jewelry, clothes, immediately after their parents were gunned down dead. They claimed their dad molested them. That still doesn't explain, even if it were true, doesn't explain murdering your mother in cold blood.

And by the way, Bethany, she was crawling up the hallway trying to get away from her sons. And they followed her and gunned her down as she tried to get away from her sons. And they followed her and gunned her down as she tried to crawl away. It's my understanding, based on the forensics, to Joe Scott Morgan, how the heck could they tell that based on the forensics at the home? Well, obviously, if she was, in fact, crawling away, then she would leave traces of herself behind, whatever that might comprise of. Say, for instance, like blood, there would be a blood trail that would be leading to the body.

As she is attempting to get away from where the event actually occurred, let's keep in mind the husband, Jose, was literally gunned down on his sofa with a shotgun blast to the head. That's what makes this so gruesome. The fact that they could actually do this to their parents. And that tells you a lot about the individual that might want to engage with these individuals at a personal level. So, Joe, are you retitling your book, The Blood Beneath My Knees? Well, I mean, based on where her body was found and blood trail and forensics ricocheting bullets, they could tell what happened. Take a listen to our friends at NBC Dateline interviewing Tammy Menendez. I didn't set out to have a relationship with Eric, but it's something that happened.

And, you know, I wrote one letter to him and he wrote back and I went to visit him in prison and our relationship developed. In fact, in one of his letters he had written and said that he had a girlfriend for a couple years and I kind of said, it's so sad that he thinks he has a girlfriend. So I understand where the public's view is coming from, but I do get emotional support from Eric. He's my best friend. You'd be surprised how well you can get to know somebody through letters. He became a really good friend of mine. And then after I met him, things got more and more intense.

And you know what, Jackie? Let's hear again from Timmy Menendez speaking to ABC's Barbara Walters. walters i'm not a killer i never was uh it's not who i am but you killed your parents that's that's true but i'm not a murderer it troubles me but i do know the person that eric is and i and i know his heart i know his soul and i do know what happened that night and i do understand i i I believe that within everybody, put in certain circumstances, you will, you know, be able to kill somebody. I mean, I do believe that Eric is a very good person. Okay, earlier you were hearing our friends at Dateline when we played the 911 call. Dr. Bethany, do you believe that, that everyone will kill

in the right circumstances? Because I don't. No, I don't believe that at all. And just to add something about the crime scene, those boys went back and shot their parents in the kneecaps just to make it look like it was a break-in. So that is how cold-blooded they were. And they went on a spending spree that lasted for months before suspicion turned on them. Now, in terms of Eric Menendez, what I'm hearing is that he has this so well rationalized, that he's not a killer. This just happened. His dad molested him.

And as you said, it doesn't matter if his dad molested him. There are all kinds of sexual abuse victims in this world, and they do not become homicidal. I think he has rationalized the crime. He has, in fact, brainwashed a willing participant who does not want to believe that he committed this crime. She says she had no intent of developing a relationship with him. I did not believe that at all. She wrote the first letter. Okay. She went and visited him.

She sought this relationship out. And this reminds me of an interview I did once with a group of women who, I told you this story once, they did something where they would wait outside the prisons for when men were released and they would help them with something that they called touching down. Touching down was the first time the guy would have sex once he was released from prison. These women believed that because the men were behind bars, they had no sexual life. And so they were saving it all up for them. That once the guys were released from their incarceration, they had all this sexual energy built up. And the woman, whoever, the one woman I interviewed, her name was Misty. Misty believed that she would be the first sex partner in years, like having sex with a virgin. fantasy of what went on behind bars that these guys were leading these virginal lives and just only thinking about them and only available for them really played on these women's pathology,

for lack of a better word, that they needed, like I said earlier, to have somebody behind bars waiting for them all the time. Have you heard the anachronism TMI because that was a little more than I had bargained for. And now it's stuck up here and I'm never going to get that out of my head. Thanks, Dr. Bethany, so much for the

touching down explanation. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Bundy and Boone even had a daughter, the result of a moment of cloak and dagger intimacy in prison. Carol told me that there were two ways to have sex. One was to sneak into the bathroom, and the other one was behind the water cooler. A recent Netflix documentary featured audio of her speaking about how the baby was conceived.

We kept looking out the window, through the black guard to the thrill light. And just after the first day, they just made it clear. Carol Ann Boone believed Bundy's claims of innocence for many years. Guys, you are hearing our friend, my friend Jim Murray, speaking about Ted Bundy and his wife, Carol Ann Boone. Take a listen to our friends at Inside Edition. Why would anyone marry America's most notorious serial killer? That's the intriguing question being raised by

the new movie in which Zac Efron plays the monster Ted Bundy. The movie features scenes involving Bundy's wife, Carol Ann Boone. The media has convicted Ted before he has had his day in court. The real life Bundy and Boone first became friends when they worked together in Washington State in 1974. Bundy actually proposed to Carol Ann while she was testifying on his behalf at the penalty phase of his murder trial in Florida. Will you marry me?

Yes. And I do hereby marry you. That was all that was required for them to be officially married in the state of Florida. Author Stephen Michaud visited Bundy numerous times on death row. He says he helped arrange the surprising courtroom proposal, even procuring rings from Tiffany

and a wedding outfit for Bundy. I went to the men's store and bought Ted a pair of khakis and a bow tie and some argyle socks so he could look spiffy for the occasion. You are hearing the voice of the guy who arranged Ted Bundy's wedding surreptitiously. That was Stephen Michaud. Speaking to Inside Edition, straight out to Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. How did Ted Bundy end up getting married behind bars? So, Nancy, Ted Bundy met Carol Boone when they worked together in Washington, Washington State Emergency Services.

And this is what is so bizarre. They actually met searching for women that had gone missing in the state, women that Ted Bundy actually murdered. And he was later arrested and was going on trial for murder in Florida. And the trial was in Orlando. And he was accused of murdering Kimberly Leach. He was convicted of that. She was 12 years old, and Carol could not find a minister to marry them, but she found a loophole in the law. If there's a public declaration of marriage that's made in a courtroom in front of officers of the court, then the marriage is considered legal. So Ted Bundy actually represented himself, and he called her to the stand, asked her to marry him, and she said yes. And they even had a child against prison rules.

She got pregnant, and that daughter is now 36 years old living her life somewhere. I don't need the mechanics, but Levi Page, how in the hay did this woman, Carolyn Boone, get pregnant by Ted Bundy behind bars? Yeah, it was against prison rules, but apparently they were able to be intimate. And this is not the only rules they broke it's alleged that she would smuggle drugs to him and that she smuggled drugs to him by hiding them in her private parts not to get too graphic and she is also alleged to have actually given him cash when he escaped during that escape during one of his two escapes. Amazing to me.

I'll never get past this, Daryl Cohen, how somebody like Ted Bundy manages to escape, not once, but twice. Once from a law library in the courthouse, as I recall. How did that happen? How do you not watch Ted Bundy every minute? How does that happen, Daryl Cohen? I think it's redux of Fulton County, George Fulton County Courthouse, Atlanta, Georgia. I suspect that Ted Bundy, who was very well educated, very glib and didn't look like a killer. He looked like a good guy, like a lawyer. Oh, my gosh, he was a lawyer uh so they let their guard down excuse me i have to

go to the bathroom i'll be right back don't worry about it to ted who then saunters out yeah i think he seemed not to be a threat he didn't look the part he wasn't from hollywood casting he was a villain uh heinous killer that no one expected. Which is also how he lured in a lot of his victims. But it's not just... Jump in. Go ahead. I would love to make a comment about Carol Ann Boone and why she wanted to marry him. And let's remember that when she helped him escape, that's when he went and killed another person.

That's right. So she actually participated in the crime. And there's so many theories about why women marry men behind bars. But one of the theories is that the woman takes secret pleasure in the man's crime, that there is something latently homicidal about the woman and that she has hatred towards the victims. And this is in the literature, and I've seen this in my practice, with women who pair up with men who are hateful, domineering, aggressive. And so their friendship flourished when they were searching for victims, which tells me that she had a lurid fascination with his crimes. She helped spring him from jail jail and he committed another crime. Could it be that Carol Ann Boone, although she was not technically a serial killer herself, that there was some

pleasure that other women were getting killed, raped, in a sense like they had it coming to them. Her motive would be different from his. His would be more sexual sadism, but hers might be hatred towards women. And they paired up on this mutual sociopathy that they shared. You know, Dr. Bethany, you just taught me something new that I hadn't thought of regarding these women who marry killers behind bars. That was an incredible train of thought. Let's see if we can apply it to someone known as the Night Stalker. Take a listen to our friends at KRON4, Vicki Levickis. There are many who would look at Richard Ramirez in the eye and say, he is the face of evil. And yet you look at him and you see the man of your dreams. Who needs glasses here?

I can't help the way the world looks at him. They don't know him the way I do. And the next day, Doreen walked down the aisle, albeit a prison aisle, with her groom. Here's the couple and her response at being the new Mrs. Richard Ramirez. It feels wonderful. I'm so happy. I'm so thrilled, very proud, and a little relieved that the bulk of the day is over, and just hopefully I can enjoy the rest of my day in peace with Richard's family and think about the importance of what happened today. The importance of what happened.

She married the Night Stalker. How many dead bodies connected to the Night Stalker, Levi Page? So, Nancy, this guy in the spring and summer of 85, he terrorized residents of Southern California and San Francisco, and he was responsible for 13 home invasion murders and 11 sexual assaults, and he beat and sexually assaulted women before stabbing them to death. Take a listen to our friends at ABC GMA. This is our friend Matt Gutman. She may look like the girl next door, but this woman could be the future Mrs. Charles Manson. Everybody knows the name Charles Manson. ABC News has learned the notorious

killer. I'm a convict. I'm an outlaw. I'm a rebel. I'm not a sunny school teacher. Obtained a marriage license from behind bars and could marry 26-year-old Star Burton as soon as next month. Star, whose real name is Afton Elaine Burton, is 54 years younger than Manson, born long after he was convicted of the gruesome murders of actress Sharon Tate and six others in 1971. Still, she says she loves him, and in this 2011 video posted on YouTube says that she

wants to exonerate him. It's so obvious that Charles Manson was railroaded. Burton was raised a Baptist in Missouri, moved out to California nine years ago to be closer to Manson's prison. She even runs this website devoted to clearing Manson's name. Guys, Charles Manson getting married behind bars. And the reality is his wife, his bride, his fiance was born after the murders and had no idea what was happening. And, you know, here's another stunner to Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert. Remember how we have analyzed the Natalie Holloway disappearance and the murder of Stephanie Tassiano-Flores, Jorn Vandersloot's second murder victim that we know of. You do know Jorn Vandersloot is married with a child from behind bars, right, Joe Scott?

Yeah, I do, actually, Nancy, Vandersloot has been married. And when you consider how devious and just horrible this person is in this world, it's amazing that he could find anyone that would want to, you know, kind of engage with him, particularly at this intimate level. It's absolutely just striking the fact that you have people that are obsessed with folks like VanderSloot. VanderSloot has brought, and you know, it is about the killing of Natalie Holloway, the missing, the circumstances around her missing. But the pain and anguish he has drugged this family through for all of these years, the mom and dad, where he would give them little bits of information.

This guy is a true sadist, Nancy. Nancy, can I make a comment about this one? Because this one, Charles Manson, Joran van der Sloot, and Richard Ramirez, all three, the three women who married those men have something in common. And I want to refer to a famous study where women were interviewed who had married men behind bars. A certain subset of women had no idea what the crime was. They had deliberately decided not to look at the criminal record. They didn't want to know. And they would proudly say to the prison guards and to the interviewers, I don't know what he did. I don't even care. So there was this deliberate denial. I also think

that what Daryl Cohen said about this cult-like persona that draws the woman in. I mean, I think Charles Manson definitely fits that subtype that he was talking about. He was a cult leader. So what is he going to do? Even from behind bars, he's going to continue to recruit like he did when he was roaming free and killing people. Dr. Bethany Marshall, an in-depth analysis of not only the sadistic killers behind bars, but the psychopathy behind the women that marry them, have sex with them, and bear their children from behind bars. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Goodbye, friend.