Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Sicko Jodi Arias Stabs Naked Lover Dead In Shower, Now She's Showered With Cash & Love Letters Behind Bars

Episode Date: June 17, 2019

Jodi Arias stabs her boyfriend, Travis Alexander, 28 times, shoots him and leaves him to die in a shower. Nancy takes a look back at the trial, and finds out more about Arias' life behind bars. Why does she still get dozens of love letters, and what job is she working for 40 cents an hour? Nancy's expert panel weighs in:Judge Ashley Willcott: Judge & Trial AttorneyDr. Brian Russell: Host of "Fatal Vows" on IDCaryn Stark: PsychologistAlexis Tereszcuk: Entertainment editor at radaronline.com Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Stabbed 28 times, capped off with a gunshot wound to the head, left to die naked and decomposing in his shower stall. Ringing a bell? That was Travis Alexander. Young, handsome, educated the world before him. How did he end up there? Two words.

Jody Arias. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Jodi Arias goes in front of a jury for not one but two trials as part of death penalty proceedings against her there in Arizona. But what are we learning about Jodi Arias' life behind bars? Well, a lot. I hope you're sitting down. Joining me right now, along with Ashley Wilcott, juvenile judge, lawyer, founder of ChildCrimeWatch.com, Dr. Brian Russell, host of Investigation Discovery's hit series, Fatal Vows,

renowned New York psychologist, Karen Stark, Alexis Tereszczuk, joining me from RadarOnline.com. Alexis, why won't she go away? Because she can't. She craves the attention of everybody. She says that she wants to just do good behind bars, but she doesn't. She still runs a Twitter account. She still writes to her fans. She cannot live outside of the spotlight. Let's go back in the courtroom. What happened, Alexis? Jodi Arias created a circus in the courtroom when she took the stand. Everybody was stunned. I was. I know you were. And she was on there for days spinning her lies about

Travis Alexander. Alexis, what can you tell me about Travis Alexander in life? What was he like? Travis was the nicest guy. He was a Mormon, the religion that he had committed himself to as he was older. And he was full of life. He had so many friends. He was a respected business guy. He was the one who had the whole house and had all the roommates.

So everybody depended on Travis to take care of them. And that's what he did. He took care of everybody. He was funny. He was adventurous. He was always going on trips. And in fact, when he and Jody started dating, they went on a lot of trips together, fun trips to waterfalls and to San Diego, lots of places. He was an up-and-coming entrepreneur. He was running his own business through the organization

and he was really climbing up in the company because people liked him. He had a quick smile. His sister just said he was the nicest guy you would ever meet. Everybody that met him said he was so nice. And he was also struggling with his religion. He wanted to follow the tenets so strictly, but he also, like any other young person in their late 20s, early 30s, he wanted to have sex with his girlfriend. It's interesting.

I'm going to go to Karen Stark on this in a moment. But all of his friends and family that knew her did not want him to be with her. And I've questioned them about that repeatedly saying, what was it about her? And they all said, I don't know. It was just a freaky, hinky feeling. She was just, we just thought she was weird and crazy. There was just something about her. Dr. Brian Russell, she's, many people believe, beautiful. She's got a beautiful face. Many people think she's got a beautiful body. I don't find her beautiful, but many people do. She's got tons of people writing her and sending her money behind bars. The thing is, when Travis Alexander, who I understand at the time was a

devout Mormon, got tangled up with Jodi Arias, at some point, he wanted to break it off. He said things like he did not think they would ever get married. He wanted to start dating other people. She would have none of it. So she finds out he's going on a trip to Cozumel with another woman and that just throws her into a fit drives literally across the desert she's moved away with all the gas cans in her trunk so she doesn't have to stop to use her credit card or be on a surveillance video at a 7-eleven gets to his home they have crazy fetish sex all day, complete with photos, which were played over and over and over at trial.

And then he still refuses to cancel the Cozumel date. And when that happens, she stabs him 29 times and shoots him in the head, leaving his body to decompose in the shower. Help me out, Dr. Brian Russell. I'm glad you just gave that rundown Nancy because you know she said she killed him while he was beating her. There'd be a self-defense argument but physical evidence from the scene clearly suggested that didn't happen

that way. I never saw solid evidence that he'd ever beaten her. Let's just look at the facts. As you accurately point out Dr. Brian Russell there were ways, if it were indeed true, which no one but Aria says is true, they were broken up. She had moved away, hours away. They were not living together. They were never married. They never had children, nothing. They had a fling. He broke up. She moved away, scorned. She left. She was living somewhere else, had a brand new place to live, had a car, a job, the works. And they'd been apart for a while. As a matter of fact, I'm reading directly from the autopsy report, Travis Alexander's jugular vein, his throat was slit. The common carotid artery, the trachea, had been slashed. He had defensive wounds on his hand. He may have even been dead at the time she shot him in the head. Also, the crime

scene revealed that when he first was stabbed, he realized he was dying. He stumbled to the bathroom mirror and actually face onto the sink as he looked into the mirror as he died. And he was left naked and bloody, bleeding out in the shower. As a matter of fact, it's really not even contested how he died. Listen to Jodi Arias at trial admitting she slit his throat. Would you agree that you're the person who actually slit Mr. Alexander's throat from ear to ear? Yes. To Ashley Wilcott, a veteran trial lawyer and judge, it gives me no pleasure to replay the rendition of how Travis Alexander was murdered. He didn't see it coming. He had no idea what was about to happen.

But we also know, Ashley, that at the beginning, she claimed that she wasn't there. She had nothing to do with it at all. Then when evidence turned up that she had been there, she actually claimed that ninjas showed up all dressed in black and for no reason burst into the home, stole nothing. She ran and saved her own life, but they killed Travis and left like shadows in the night. I mean, Ashley, really? Right, really.

So she was lying from the get-go, obviously, with the story that she initially told with the ninjas. But here's what I love about our justice system. During this trial, it went from story to story to story to story. But as you just played, finally, on the stand, under oath, she admits she slit his throat. Period. Yeah. And just like this, just like that.

And then shot him, cleaned up the scene as best she could, put a lot of clothes in the washer, including her digital camera. Hello. And on the camera to Karen Stark were actual photos. They had been, she had been taking sex photos the whole day. Okay. But forget about that. On the digital camera that she left in the washing machine are photos we think accidentally taken during Travis's murder. Karen Stark, New York psychologist, what about that? This is a person who really is not only a pathological liar, but has absolutely no guilt about anything that happened and documented it as it was happening. Now, even if it was accidental, somehow she knew that she should wash things up, clean them up, despite the ninjas or whatever she was saying. And she very clearly is a psychopath who committed this murder. There is no doubt in my mind that she knew exactly what she was doing and that it had to do with rage and jealousy

and her inability to let go of this man. Alexis Torres-Chuck, RadarOnline.com. You also cover the case every single day. I was in the courtroom almost every day and was broadcasting from a couple blocks away from the courthouse. The digital camera evidence to me is overwhelming. It places her there at the time of the murder in the room with Travis. It does. It's right up to and after she murders him. There's there are pictures of him naked in the shower. He's got the water running over him. He's looking directly at the camera. These were not secret photos that he didn't know were being taken. Then there's the picture of his foot in the shower and there's another picture of the blood on the floor and they're taking there's a time stamp so you can tell that they were taken just moments literally less than two minutes after he was

alive in the shower she's taking pictures and then he's dead she when she went into her frenzy her spree killing spree and stabbed him repeatedly And the thing was, she also shot him, but the bullet casing was found on top of the blood. So what the evidence was presented in court is that there's no way she shot him first. Otherwise, that would be on the bottom and be covered with blood. It happened afterwards, and it wasn't disturbed. And this is everything that was shown on her camera. She didn't even take the camera with her. She stuck it in the washing machine.

She left it there. It was so easy for everybody to find. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm talking about none other than Jodi Arias. To Alexis, exactly where is Jodi Arias housed? Has she been moved? What's the name of her correctional facility? And what do we know specifically about security there? Is it a pod? Does she have a roommate? Can she decorate her cell like a dorm room? So she is in the Perryville prison. She has not been moved. She

entered there in 2015, April 13th, 2015. So she has been there just over four years. It is a very standard 12 by 7 cell, I believe, with a bed and a sink. She does not have a roommate because it is maximum security. She was convicted of murder in the first degree. She is classified. She cannot have any movement. And she's had a review every year since she's been there to maybe lower down the classification level of her risk assessment. Never been lowered.

It's gone from a 5 to a 4, which is nothing at all. She's still in a maximum security prison. She does not have a lot of freedom or free will to walk around to see other people. She's a glombo cell people. She can decorate her cell and she also has a television and she is able to watch TV and she watches it nonstop. And she spends most of her time in solitary confinement. That's the way this prison is designed in Arizona. It's a pretty harsh prison for the worst of the killers in the state. But she also has a job behind bars. She has been working in the library for almost a year now, and she works over 40 hours a week,

but she makes a whopping 40 cents an hour. Alexis, what can you tell me about Jodi Arias' life behind bars? Is it true she has dozens of love letters a day? Did nobody see Travis Alexander's decomposing body in the shower? No matter how many times I played it on HLN? What man in his right mind would seek out Jodi Arias? What, do they want to be with a killer or do they think she's innocent? These people out there, these men are just bamboozled by her hair.

It used to be she used to be this bleached blonde, really buxom girl. Now behind bars she has her natural brown hair. It's probably gray at this point. And they write her obsessively. She even has said, I cannot even respond to everybody who writes to me because I get so many fan letters a day, dozens of them. She has all of the things that she buys from the commentary in there, so she buys tons and tons of paper and envelopes so she can write to all of her fans.

And the people tell her they love her and they believe that she's innocent and that she's going to get out. And then when she gets out, that they're going to maybe even get together with her. They are just fans. Alexis, how do you know she's getting all these love letters? The prison has confirmed to us that she receives multiple letters. And then she runs a twitter account through a friend and that friend posts that people write to her all the time alexis tereschuk radar online.com are these men sending her money are they insane yes people send her so much money

they send her they have to send it through the prison system, but they have it because she has a huge fat account in the jail commissary. Okay, so if they're sending her money, Alexis Tereshak, what is she doing with it? I mean, what's there to spend it on behind bars? She is spending all of her money at the commissary on a variety of things. But the thing that struck me the most is that she's buying toothbrushes, which Teresa Giudice told us that she learned when she was in prison that that can be used as a sex toy behind bars. She shops relentlessly at the canteen. She buys canned sardines. She buys Doritos. She buys pudding.

She buys desserts. She buys cookies. She also buys Beano, which, you know, can treat her stomach problems. She buys pretzels, cookies, crackers, any sort of junk food that is on there. Jodi is buying it. Alexis, I understand that she's treated like a celebrity behind bars. What does that entail? She is quite popular behind bars. She is the one that everybody goes to. She claims that she gives other people, she buys things from the commentary to give to other people. The people behind bars are not as lucky as she is. But there have been other inmates who are also locked up in the same prison who have revealed that people get in fights with Jodi and that she's often mouthing off in the shared courtyard. Is it true that she has privileges to get on the internet and if so write the lovelorn men that are contacting her? She does go to the library. She actually works in the library. She is a library aid and she has said

that the library books in this prison are just terrible. So she's asked people, she started book drives behind bars to ask people to send things that people would want to read. But the prison is very strict about what you can get. And so there are many mostly religious books and probably what you would call smut books, romance books. She does not have access to the internet, but she speaks with folks on the outside that do have access to the internet. So that's how she keeps in touch with everybody through her Twitter account. And the love letter, she can write as many as she wants and she just has to buy stamps, but she has basically unlimited funds in her account. So she is able to buy the stamps to send letters back to everybody that writes to her, but she has often said, oh, I can't write to everybody, as if she has anything else to do. Alexis Tereszczuk, what can you tell me about claims that she gets privileges behind bars?

Judy Arias does not get any special privileges behind bars, but because she cannot behave. In fact, she was disciplined within her first couple of months of being there. She yelled at a guard and called the guard a blocker because he wouldn't let her get a haircut that she wanted even though she had no privileges to get a haircut and then when she was disciplined she said oh I didn't know that that word was a bad word I just looked it up in the urban dictionary so she was disciplined for months on end she lost her visitation privileges I understand that Jodi Arias perceives herself to be quite the artiste okay and she could be selling her artwork online is that true let me say is that still true because I've seen some of it to me it looks like

she's just tracing pictures out of magazines but that I'm no art critic Alexis you tell me Jodi Arias was drawing so many pieces of art. And you are right. They did look like she traced things because it was such an exact copy of things from magazines, ads. And even in one picture, everybody thought it was just like Travis Alexander's sister, which was so disrespectful. But since she has been in this prison, she's not allowed to sell it or profit off of this. But she is sending people her artwork, and it's on her website from before. So if people wanted to go check that out,

JodiArias.com has her art. It's disgusting. To Dr. Bethany Marshall, Psycho Analyst joining me out of L.A., Dr. Bethany, behind bars, she's somewhat of a celebrity. She gets hundreds of love letters. People put money in her commissary account.

She, quote, draws, end quote, in other words, traces other drawings and then sells them. It's quite the life. Quite the life. Dr. Bethany, explain how is she still manipulating people from behind bars? Well, she's highly manipulative. You know, I was thinking about borderline personality disorder as you were talking to Alexis. She definitely has borderline personality disorder. And I actually was looking it up in the DSM-5, which is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. And one of the characteristics

is intense, unstable, and conflicted close relationships marked by mistrust, neediness, and anxious preoccupation with real or imagined abandonment. Close relationships often viewed in extremes of idealization and devaluation, alternating between over-involvement and withdrawal. And I can see that in her relationship with Travis Alexander, that it started with the idealization and then it went through to the devaluation. The idealization is when he was dating her, right? When they were together, when they were going out. And then do you remember that she found out that he was planning a vacation with another woman? Then it went from the idealization to the devaluation, and that's when she started to plot her revenge. Not only was she preoccupied with killing him, but she was absolutely obsessed with him. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

I guarantee you that Jodi Arias, to this day, thinks that she's the victim behind bars. Joining me right now, Alexis Tereschuk, investigative reporter and journalist for RadarOnline.com. Alexis, you and I covered the Arias murder trial together as well as the death penalty phase. For those who don't know about Jodi Arias and her murder conviction, please explain what happened to Travis Alexander when he tried to break up with her. She plotted his murder, lured him in, you know, went down to his house in Arizona, but it took her four days to get there.

She stopped along the way to buy a bunch of things that she was going to use, where she ended up slaughtering him. She attacked him while he was in the shower. Wait a minute, though. Alexis, hold on. Hold on. You're skipping some good stuff. Because when she travels, you know, I don't know how many hundreds of miles to go murder him. She did not want to leave a trail. Describe it, Alexis. So she rented a car in Northern California, about 60 miles away from her house. So nobody

would recognize her. First, they gave her a red car. She said, about 60 miles away from her house, so nobody would recognize her. First, they gave her a red car. She said, I don't want a red car. That's too noticeable. I want something different because she didn't want the cops to see her. She then hid out with a boyfriend in another town. She dyed her hair back to its natural brunette from the bleach blonde she'd been sporting. She then bought a gas can can had multiple gas cans in

her car filled them up with gas not using a credit card so that she couldn't be traced and then trekked across the desert hiding when she was so she couldn't be stopped anywhere and had no record of her being near Travis now I don't recall that he knew she was coming. They'd had a couple of phone calls. She had called him repeatedly, but once she entered the area near his house, she turned off her phone and did not turn it back on until hours after she murdered him to hide the fact that she was even at his house. She was very devious. She knew exactly what to do. She tried to cover her tracks. What do you think was the motive of Alexis and why?

Jodi Arias was jealous that Travis Alexander had moved on. He didn't want to date her anymore. He did not want to be her boyfriend. And he was actually even going on a trip down to Cancun with another girl. And it was a company trip and she had worked for this company so she was humiliated but she was filled with rage because he wouldn't be her boyfriend and he didn't love her and he treated her like she felt like trash they had sex he didn't care he lied about it because he was a mormon and he but he moved on and she could never move on and she thought if i can't have him no one else will she literally left Travis Alexander's home with blood on her hands okay blood on her hands drives for hours to get to her next boyfriend and literally hops on top of him and straddles him wow she didn't waste any time she did not at all 27 hours

in the car whatever it was with her gun that she had brought. The police, her parents, her grandparents, who she lived with, had had a break-in. And surprisingly, the only thing stolen was the gun, which was the same caliber of gun that was used to shoot Travis. Alexis, the fact that they were part of the Mormon religion seemed to, it was like a curiosity to so many people. Why is that? I think it's because the Mormon religion is not as familiar to people across the country as other religions, Christianity. And so people tend to have thought of it as a cult. And so they saw that there was this what many people called ritualistic murder, which it wasn't.

It was just Jodi going crazy and murdering somebody. And they tied it into this church, but also because there were visual images of it. When Jodi met Travis, he was a very well-respected member of the church, and he brought her into the church. And she was baptized and became a member of the church. So there was a photograph of her baptism. And so when people have visual images of things they can see, it makes it so much more compelling. And then she dragged in the fact that after she got baptized, I think she said that she and Travis had sex. I'm not sure what kind of sex I'm allowed to say on your show. So let's just say not the regular sex. And in some states, it's still considered sodomy. Go ahead.

So it just made it so much more salacious. And Travis was such an upstanding member of this church. And people loved him. And he was such a good person. And so she joined the church only because of him. And in fact, after she was convicted, church kicked her out, excommunicated her and said they did not want her in. Alexis Torreseszczuk, investigative reporter with RadarOnline.com. I understand that Jodi Arias, the murderer, is mounting an appeal. What's that all about? So yes, she has filed an appeal. She has her attorneys and she has a slew of complaints. She says she blames her first attorney, Kirk Nermy, for inappropriate actions with her, saying that the way that he spoke to the jury about her saying at the closing argument, nine out of ten days, I hate wants the appeals court to overturn her conviction because she has a bad lawyer. She had a bad lawyer. She also says that the prosecutor acted inappropriately, which I believe he's been investigated and no charges or actions have been taken against him.

And she just wants every excuse in the book to get out of the fact that she not only murdered her boyfriend, but confessed to it on the stand. Take a listen to what the jury heard. Would you agree that you're the person who actually slit Mr. Alexander's throat from ear to ear? Yes. Would you also agree that you're the individual that stabbed him in the upper torso? Yes. And you're doing all of this according to your version of events.

You're doing this to this individual after you have already shot them, right? Yes. Correct? I believe so. Well, no. Do you remember previously talking to us about how he was coming at you and he was this horrible man with this mean face? Do you remember telling me that? Yes, I didn't say he was horrible.

Okay. Thank you for correcting me, but do you remember telling us that he was a mean man? Not today. Well, previously. Previously you did say that he was a mean man, correct? I think I did, yes. And on this particular occasion, you told us that he was cursing at you, right? Yes. And that he threw you down, right? Yes.

That he chased you down, right? Yes. And this is the individual that you shot first, right? I didn't know if I shot him. It just really went off. The gun went off, right? You can at least acknowledge that. Yes.

That's something that you did here, correct? Yes. You know what's scary, Alexis, is like Charles Manson, whose decedence was commuted to life. Manson went before a parole board over and over before he finally died, basically of old age. I fear one day Jodi Arias is going to walk free. What do you think? I hope not.

I hope that Jodi Arias serves her natural life in prison behind bars. I do not think after attending the trial and living that trial for so many years, I do not think that the appeals court will overturn it. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Jodi Arias is convicted of murdering her lover, stabbing him 26 times, leaving his dead body slumped over in the shower, shooting him in the head. I remember the shocking scenario that was proven by physical evidence, unrefuted, that he was standing at his bathroom mirror and blood was dripping down and he saw himself dying. I remember it like it was yesterday. For me, it's a memory. For his family, it's never-ending pain. Today, our thoughts with the family of Travis Alexander and a life cut short. I think about them

so often. How are they doing now? They are doing well with their lives. They were devastated when Travis was killed by Jodi and even more crushed by the antics that she pulled in the courtroom and with all of her interviews and trying to say that he was a child molester and really drag him through the mud. But they celebrate his life. However, Jodi needles them relentlessly. Whenever she has to send them a check, a restitution check, it just brings back the reminder of how upset they were and how terrible she is. She has this miserable little job where she makes 40 cents an hour,

and so she sends them a $500 check here and there, and it just is a reminder of how she is still alive and their beloved Travis is not. We can't go any further without pointing out that it was Jodi Arias herself who dragged sex into this trial, not the prosecutor. Speaking of the prosecutor, Alexis, how is Martinez? While Martinez is fine, he became quite a celebrity. He is still prosecuting cases, and he's known as a real bulldog in the legal community.

Well, that leads me to the defense attorney, Kirk Nurmey, who tried over and over and over to get off this case. How is Kirk Nurmey doing now? Kirk had a tough time. After the trial, he was diagnosed with cancer and he has said repeatedly, he told me, I'm sure he's told you, that he believes working with Jodi Arias exacerbated his cancer, caused him to have cancer. It was so stressful. He hated her. He felt like she was the worst client he'd ever had. He did try to get off the case, repeatedly begged the judges to let him go, and he wouldn't.

But he has said, I gave her a great defense. She admitted she killed her boyfriend. She murdered him, and I protected her from great defense. She admitted she killed her boyfriend. She murdered him. And I protected her from the death penalty. So she should be very thankful because she would have gotten the death penalty if it wasn't for me. I was thinking about all those phone sex tapes. Take a listen to this. Yeah, you are right.

In the bath. Oh, God. Oh, when we took a bath together? Uh-huh. That was surreal, like, honestly. And I think, I mean, maybe the candlelight and the bubbles all had something to do with it, but you were amazing. You made me, seriously, you made me feel like a goddess.

Like, I wasn't saying you were, like, worshiping me, but you made me feel like I was the most freaking beautiful woman on the whole planet like I so felt like I was a goddess and so aside from all those warm fuzzy feelings but like it was

it was so sexy and it was so hot and oh gosh. Oh, I know all that. It wasn't hard to make you that way because you were freaking, you were hot. It is. You were, you are. Seriously honey, I don't want right now for that, because I'm touching yourself.

Damn, already? I just started. I'm gonna tell tie you to a tree and... Like that? I'm going to tie you to a tree and... Oh my gosh. That is so debasing. I like it. Joining me, a very special guest, Kirk Nermy, the Jody Arias defense lawyer and author of a bestseller,

Trapped with Ms. Arias. You can find it on Amazon.com. You know, Kirk, a side of a calculated attack on you, after you and the rest of your team had sat there and given your blood, sweat, and tears during that trial, just taken so much abuse, not from just Arius, but really everyone, the whole public was against you. And to this day, you believe it contributed to you getting cancer. You know, that's what malignant means. Mal, worry, bad. That's what malignant means. Do you really believe that, Kirk? I do. I mean, obviously,

there's no way to prove it scientifically, but in my heart, keep in mind, I was assigned Ms. Arias' case in 2009. Thus, she was a part of my life against my wishes from probably 2010 to 2015. And everything that went along with defending her, having her attack me in interviews, things of that nature, caused great concern to me about my safety and that of my wife. Yes, I do. Over those years, I believe that it eventually added up and that's what turned my healthy blood cells into cancerous tumors. Her trial turned into an international Barnum & Bailey circus where Nermy was, against his will, elected ringmaster. I want to hear what it was like. See, I always saw her at a distance, like looking at a tarantula in a glass box. I was at a distance, of course, except for the time she shot a bird at me in court.

But needless to say, she wasn't the first and no doubt won't be the last. But Kirk, what was it like being with her? Why was there such a contentious relationship between you two? Well, obviously a lot of that is privilege. But, you know, my job, the way I look at it anyway, is a detachment. I'm not there to support what she did. I'm not there to, I'm just there to help her support her story. I'm not there to be her friend.

And, you know, that, without saying too much, I think that speaks volumes. I'm trying to, I'm trying to interpret that. In your book, Trapped with Miss Arias, you touch on so many different topics. What do you think was the biggest bombshell in your book? I think probably the biggest bombshell was talking about that attachment she had. And this kind of correlates to what I said earlier about her kind of at some point in time viewing me as her boyfriend. I was the most significant man in her life. And I was there to do a job. I was not there to be her friend or supporter in any way other than to advocate her case in the courtroom. Alexis, what's your take on Jodi Arias? Jodi Arias is a psychopath. She,

you know, because she spoke about you all the time. I think she even one time dragged her finger across her throat like she wanted to cut your throat. She has called me personally crazy after I wrote stories, literally facts from the prison about her, called me obsessed with her. I am not obsessed with her. You are not obsessed with her. We are obsessed with getting the truth and justice for people that were involved in this case, meaning Travis Alexander. She has a huge ego, even locked up behind bars. The world revolves only around Jodi Arias. She was a liar. She was a proven liar.

She was very sneaky, and she very methodically planned Travis Alexander's murder. Alexis, do you remember the day she shot a bird at me in the courtroom? That's just something I will never forget. I do remember that. She turned around and pulled her middle finger up on her chin. Everybody was stunned. The whole country was stunned. It was amazing. She had no sense of what

is right or wrong and she just thought she was wrongly accused of killing her boyfriend even though she admitted. I'll always have our time in court together when she shot a bird at me. We'll always have Arizona. My happy memories of Jodi Arias. But you know what?

I have to say that I've met an American Idol because Jodi Arias did win American Idol behind bars. Take a listen. Oh, holy night. The stars are brightly shining.

It is the night of our dear Savior's birth Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.