Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Sinister Golden State serial killer walks among us, female victim who survived tells story

Episode Date: March 14, 2018

The Golden State Killer is a burglar, rapist serial killer who has terrorized California for decades starting in the 1970s. One man is believed to have committed as many as 50 sexual assaults and over 10 murders. Nancy Grace explores the case with Jane Carson-Sandler, the 5th victim and author of "Frozen in Fear: A True Story of Surviving the Shadows of Death," Michelle Cruz, sister of a murder victim, Billy Jenson, an investigative journalist who completed the raw chapters of victim Michelle McNamara’s “I’ll Be Gone in the Dark,” Paul Haynes, a researcher on McNamara’s book, and Cold Case Research Institute director Sheryl McCollum. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. prolific serial predator in the nation. I don't like to go out anymore. I don't go out by myself at all, anywhere. He was the boogeyman. He was the man in the bushes that we didn't know who he was, and we didn't know when he was going to strike again. All I know is he raped 50 people and he killed 12. And one of them was your sister. One of them was my sister.

Shut up. Shut up or I'll kill you. A bump against the house. Maybe the sound of a footstep. Shuffling along a fence outdoors. Maybe nothing at all. No warning whatsoever. The trademark of the so-called Golden State Killer. Who is he? What do we know?

Now linked to at least 175 crimes and potentially 13 homicides. The victims, their families still looking for him. And what an M.O., modus operandi, method of operation to come into a home in the middle of the night where a woman is sleeping alone or possibly a couple asleep to bind the man place him face down with dishes stacked on his back and then sex attack the woman threatening to kill her and the man if the dishes fall. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories, and I want this guy dead or alive. Joining me now, Michelle Cruz, the sister of the 12th murder victim. Jane Carson Sandler, victim number five, author of Frozen in Fear, a true story of the Shadows of Death. Billy Jensen with us, investigative journalist who went through all Michelle McNamara's raw chapters and put together her book, I'll Be Gone in the Dark.

Paul Haynes, researcher of the book, I'll Be Gone in the Dark. And Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute. To all of you, thank you for being with us. Cheryl McCollum, starting with you, this is a case that has seemingly eluded police and victims for years. I think largely because he relocated from one part of California to the next part and possibly beyond. Why has he managed with all of these crimes to elude police? Nancy, he is willing to change his MO. He's willing to change

location. He changes it up and just taunts police with it. So, you know, they say something on the news about, you know, he's never assaulted a woman with a man in the home. He changes it up and he does that. It's remarkable that he has been able to commit this many crimes, 50 rapes, 10 murders Sacramento, Contra Costa, Stanislaus, San Joaquin, Alameda, Santa Clara, Yolo, we think committed by the so-called original Night Stalker. That's 50 at the least. DNA conclusively linking him to eight murders. Other murders linked by MO. Investigators suspect that the same

man committed three other murders to Enrincho Cordova and Basalia. It goes on and on and on. In fact, he's got so many murders and rapes. He even has different monikers going by East Area Rapist, the Golden State Killer, the original Night Stalker. It goes on and on with

this guy, and still he eludes police. For all I know, he's no longer in California. Maybe he's in your home state. Let's go first to Jane Carson Sandler, victim number five. Author of Frozen in Fear, a true story of surviving the shadows of death. Jane, thank you for being with us. Thank you, Nancy, for having me. I'm right now just struck with knowing how close you came to being murdered. Something about you was different from his murder victims. Tell me what happened. Well, I was 6.30 in the morning and my husband had just left for work. I heard the garage door close and the next thing I knew, there was someone running down the hall with a flashlight and I yelled to my husband, what did you forget? And it wasn't my husband.

It was a man with a ski mask holding a flashlight and a large butcher knife. And just before this man ran down the hall, my son had gotten in bed with me, my 3-year-old son. So we were snuggling when this monster arrived at my bedside. And you can imagine the fear that i was experiencing at this time especially being that my son was next to me so um he had on a ski mask and uh black leather gloves high top black sneakers and that's all i i really knew because his face was covered with a ski mask with just slits for his eyes. And then he proceeded to, anytime I tried to say something, he would say with clenched teeth, shut up, shut up or I'll kill you. Shut up, shut up, shut up or I'll kill you.

So then he proceeded to say he just wanted money, which was, of course, a lie. And then he gagged both my son and myself. He blindfolded us, and he tied us, our ankles and our wrists, with shoelaces. And then the most frightening part about the whole ordeal was when he moved my son. And then I knew that I had no idea why he was moving him. Of course, where was he taking him? I had no idea. And then when he untied my ankles, then I knew what he was there for.

I don't even remember the rape because all I was concerned with is where did he put my son he also had this this ritual of tearing sheets tearing towels and I had no idea what he was going to do with those you know what was he going to hang us well what what he was going to do with those. You know, what was he going to hang us? What was he going to do, strangle us with his sheets, with his towels? I had absolutely no idea. And again, the fear that I was experiencing was just overwhelming. He eventually thanked the Lord, put my son back next to me, and I don't know why he had moved him in the first place.

It was probably because he wanted more room on the bed, or I don't think it was because he was being a nice guy. I just think he needed more room to operate. And then, as we were tied up, gagged, blindfolded, and he went in the kitchen and started rattling pots and pans. I'm not sure if he was cooking something, but he opened the refrigerator and again was making a lot of noise with these pots and pans. And then he'd come back in the bedroom and threaten us again and say, don't move. If I hear anything, I'll come back and kill you. So we laid there. I laid there probably about 30 minutes trying to hear if I could hear if he was still in the home. And I was finally able to get my blindfold down a little bit and I realized it was light coming through the window.

So I was able to look over at my son and he was asleep. And I woke him up and I said, we've got to get out of I said we've got to get out of here we've got to get out of here so hobbling down the hall to the front door we couldn't get out because there was a chair blocked up under the doorknob and then we went around to the kitchen and the screen door was opened the sliding door so hobbled around to the front gate, screamed for a neighbor, and then went into the neighbor's home, and she called the police. From there, Carol Daly, my angel, showed up and took me to the emergency room. There were three male policemen that showed up initially to speak with me, but I had no desire to speak to those men. But when Carol arrived, she was

so caring and so loving, and I just felt so safe with her. So she took me to the emergency room and stayed with me for about well over an hour before she had to leave. There were no cell phones back at that time, so it's not like she could check in with her partners. So I was alone during the rape exam, which was done by a male. And at one minute I was laughing and joyful that I was alive and my son was alive, and the next moment I was sobbing that, oh, my God, what had just happened to us. So that was a very unpleasant experience. The rape exam, the shot of penicillin,

be sure I didn't have a venereal disease and then the morning after pill. So I didn't get pregnant. And then I had to go home to a home that I, that, that I felt so violated and I hated. So that's my story. And that's the news to print. But that was over 40 years ago and almost 42 now. And I have to say that I'm not sorry it happened to me, Nancy. I'm not sorry at all. I really think that the Lord had chosen me to be victim number five because I knew eventually I would turn my mess into a message and by helping other women and reaching out to others that I would glorify him. So I am really grateful and I've met so many amazing folks through this journey, Michelle and Debbie and and reunited with Carol Daly after 40 years, and with Inspector Shelby, and just everyone that I've met through this journey.

It's just been amazing. So my goal now is just to reach out, help other victims, and let them know that they're going to be okay. The most important thing they need to do is go and get help. Go to a rape crisis center. Talk to someone that's been through something similar because they'll remain a victim if they keep their assault a secret. Because as we say in AA, we're only as sick as our secrets. And the moment we start to heal, the moment that we're heard and the moment that we're validated. Jane, I didn't even want to interrupt you to ask a question. Yes, ma'am.

Because your story and your testimony at the end of that story is just amazing. And how you have managed to survive through that and now find a way to praise the Lord and find your way through a nightmare is a real inspiration to me. You know, Cheryl McCollum with me, director of the Cold Case Institute. I don't know, Cheryl, how many between you and I, rape victims, we have counseled and I have represented in court. And her words really move me. Oh, her words are phenomenal, Nancy. And the fact that she would

take what happened to her and turn that into something where she can help other people is nothing short of extraordinary and amazing. And I firmly believe that is God given. You know, back to with me, victim number five. I hate to even use that because it makes her sound like a number. Yeah. What an incredible group of people joining us right now in our attempt to apprehend and investigate the Golden State Killer. Michelle Cruz, Jane Sandler, Billy Jensen, Paul Haynes, Cheryl McCollum. Jane, I was trying to jot down questions rather than interrupt you. First of all, how do you feel knowing this guy is still on the loose? And you know he hasn't quit.

Probably not. You know, he could be in Europe. He could be in jail before they started getting DNA. He could be dead. We just need resolution. We need closure. We need peace. We need to stop looking over our shoulder and wondering if that guy in the post office is the man. And when he is caught and we're all in that courtroom, when he walks in, that one of us may have known him. That to me is just, oh, my gosh, such a frightening thought. Your book is incredible, Frozen in Fear, A True Story of Surviving the Shadows of Death. Jane Sandler, does your son, who was then three at the time and with you in bed when the Golden State killer intruded. Does he have any recollection of this? I didn't actually talk to him until he was in college, Nancy. Then when I did tell him, he remembered that we had a robber in the house. But other than that, and he remembers he was moved. And where he was moved, I don't know. Whether it was back in his bedroom, whether it was on the floor next to the bed, I don't know.

And I just wonder if there's any underlining PTSD going on there. I have no idea. He's doing so well. And we don't really talk about it very much, but he's doing really well. Thank you. What does he do today? He's in the military. He's a lieutenant colonel.

Wow. Aren't you proud? I'm very proud. Very, very proud, yes. Very proud. With me, in addition to Jane Carson Sandler, Michelle Cruz, and Cheryl McCollum, are Paul Haynes, who researched the book, I'll Be Gone in the Dark, and Billy Jensen, an investigative journalist who went through all of Michelle McNamara's raw chapters to put together her book, I'll Be Gone in the Dark, to Paul Haynes. Now, I know there are many murders linked by DNA, murders linked by

MO, method of operation, as well as nearly 200 crimes. Could you clarify for me how they are linked? Sure. All the crimes in Northern California were linked at the time by MO. It was a very distinct MO. It was clear that all those crimes were the work of the time by MO. It was a very distinct MO. It was clear that all of those crimes were the work of the same offender. It was investigated in the series, and there was public knowledge of the series to the point of hysteria. In Southern California, the links were not as clear. And aside from the Santa Barbara crimes, which were clearly recognized as a series, each crime was investigated by a different agency. And some agencies disagreed on whether or not there were connections at the time. And after 10 years passed from the last crime, which was the murder of Janelle Cruz in 1986, the DNA links began to emerge once

the Orange County Crime Lab and the Ventura County Crime Lab began to re-examine their biological evidence. By 2001, links had been established among six of the crimes in Southern California, and those crimes were linked by DNA to the East Area Rapist Series in Northern California as biological evidence had been preserved from three of the rapes in Contra Costa County. But those three rapes were strongly linked by MO to the rest of the series. They're all indisputably the work of the same offender. Wow, you said that so much better than I tried to, thank you. I mean, and you guys know it cold. I guess it's one thing for you to know it cold like you and Billy do. And then for Jane Sandler and Michelle Cruz, the sister of the 12th murder victim, to hear you just rattle it off like that because they are actually victims. And, of course, that leaves Cheryl McCollum and I just almost speechless at the number of crimes, rapes, and murders this guy has committed,

committed basically under our noses. Guys, when Paul Haynes, who researched the book, I'll Be Gone in the Dark, and that's a very significant title, and I'm going to let them explain why they use that title. This guy's MO, in case you're saying, well, that could have been anybody's, not linked by DNA. No, it's this guy. He originally targeted women either alone or with children. Like you heard, Jane Carson Sandler, Her husband had just left for work early in the morning, so early it was dark outside. You know he was watching, right?

But later, he came to prefer attacking couples. His usual MO was to break in and wake up the couple, threatening them with a handgun, sometimes a knife. They were bound with ligatures that he brought with him to the scene, blindfold and or gag the victims with towels or sheets that he took from the home and would cut into strips the way you heard Jane describe it. The female victim was often made to tie up the man with boot laces. That's consistent with what Jane Sandler has just told you before tying herself up.

In many cases, the tying was so tight, the victims had no feeling in their hands for hours after they were untied. He would then separate them and often stack dishes on the back of the man who would then be face down, stating that if he, the killer, heard the dishes rattle, he'd kill everybody in the home. And this is what is so bizarre. I'm going to go to you, Cheryl McCollum, on this. He would spend hours at times in the home ransacking closets, going through drawers, as Jane just described, going in the kitchen and eating.

She said he was banging pots and pans so loudly she could hear him back in the bedroom. Clearly not afraid he was going to be caught. Not afraid at all. Nancy, he had stalked him. He had prepared. Not only would he bring things with him, but after he selected the home, he would leave tools around the house. He would leave windows unlocked. He was the most organized rapist I think I've ever studied. We also believe that he may have traveled by bicycle to and from his car, so his car would not be spotted. I mean, the level of planning involved.

To Michelle Cruz, the sister of the 12th murder victim. I did not mention this to Jane, but to Jane and Michelle, I'm sorry, overwhelmingly sorry for what you have lived through. Michelle, tell us your story. Hi, Nancy. Well, Janelle was killed May 5th, 1986. I got a phone call the next day from a friend, and I had been up in Mammoth Mountain skiing. I moved up there for a couple of months for the snow season. And my friend called me and she says, I think you need to sit down.

And I said, why? And she says, well, your sister was murdered. And I said, my sister got married. She said, no, your sister was murdered. And it was really hard to process at that time. I just, I couldn't believe it. I was stuck in a snowstorm. I couldn't get home. My mom was in Cancun, Mexico with my little brother. And so I just sort of sat there

alone for the next couple of days in the snowstorm, thinking about what she had told me. And it's crazy because I, for the next 20 years, I lived in a sort of a kind of a bubble I don't even remember what happened I think I just I don't know I was in some kind of denial or something I'd have these nightmares thinking that she was going to come back and oh my stars Michelle Cruz you're you're giving me flashbacks after my fiance was murdered shortly before our wedding. For years, I would have dreams that he was secretly alive somewhere and that he just wanted to back out of the wedding and didn't want me to find out and that everybody was in on it and I didn't know.

Then there would be dreams where he would have somehow medically be brought back to life and then there were dreams where he would be struck by lightning and be brought back to life there were just so many wild fantastical dreams i i mean i'm a jd not an md but i armchair figured out that it was a way of, I guess, of my subconscious trying to accept or make sense of or grapple with his senseless murder. And also, you said for 20 years you were in a bubble. Can I tell you? Let's see let me it was well over 20 years after keith was murdered that i would allow myself to actually be in a relationship committed and marry i would not marry i mean as a result of

that i was died in childbirth giving birth late in life, and my daughter almost died. And that is how one of the ways that murder in 1979 affected me. I mean, decades. So there's huge chunks of time I can't remember, events I can't remember events I can't remember. And so please know there's nothing wrong with you. It is just it's a hard thing to deal with. But I think victims need to hear your words. So let me stop talking and you go ahead. No, it's true.

It's very, very hard. And the dreams were constant. I mean, I had the dreams where she was in the military and she just didn't want to see the family for a while. And she'd come back in a year and she'd hide out with other people. She wouldn't want to come home. These were my dreams. I had a dream that maybe a couple of weeks later that a man, a pool guy was walking the side of our yard where our bedroom was that's where our window and he was and he would walk he walked to the back of the house to clean the pool while in reality we didn't have a pool um but you know that the guy in my dream his face was so clear so i thought is it you know janelle trying to tell me who this guy is and then there for a

long time people suspected it could have been a pool cleaner or someone at the pool um but yeah for a long long time I lived like that and and I barricade myself in my bedroom and had always had my lights on and things under my drawer my my door knob so nobody could break in and dressers up against my window so nobody could break in through the window because I'd have something blocking it on the inside. Nowadays, I have surveillance cameras and window alarms and all kinds of things around my house just to live comfortably. I'm never alone. I always have somebody here. So it definitely affected me. The fact that he's never been caught and he's still out there and I believe he's still alive. I have that feeling too, Michelle, and I don't know why. Maybe Billy or Paul can help us

sort through that. And I'm curious, I'm going to come back to Jane and see if she feels he's still alive. With me, Jane Carson Sandler and Michelle Cruz. Jane, a victim of the Golden State Killer who managed to live. Michelle Cruz, the sister of the 12th murder victim. And I hate to say it like that, Michelle, because it sounds like a number. It's Janelle Lisa Cruz. And Janelle was just 18 years old. She was found bludgeoned dead in her home. Her family, as Michelle just told you, was on a vacation. The mom, the brother, the whole family in Mexico. A pipe wrench had been reported missing by Cruz's stepfather, and it is thought

that is the murder weapon. Janelle was viciously raped before her murder. We know that DNA links him to Janelle Lisa Cruz's death and the bludgeoning death with potentially a pipe wrench is so brutal. So brutal. Michelle, tell me about Janelle in life. Janelle was very vivacious. She just had a magnetic personality. A lot of people would see her walking down the street and do double takes, triple takes.

She was just kind of one of those people that stood out. And she was very sweet, really sweet. But, you know, she was one year older than me. And so if anyone tried anything on me, she wasn't so sweet. So she was also, you know, she had that sassy side. But at the time that she was murdered, she was looking for apartments and getting ready to start college. She wanted to be a legal secretary, was the last thing that she told me.

So she was trying to get her life together, and I know that they found a newspaper on the kitchen table when they had found her, and there were some apartments circled. And so, yeah, she was just getting her life together wanting to move out of the house and you know start her own thing

and so young and so beautiful with so much ahead of her in life the death of someone so young is bad enough but to think they died in such a horrific way is another. Billy Jensen, thank you for being with us.

Investigative journalist who exhaustively went through so much, so much information to put together Michelle McNamara's book, I'll Be Gone in the Dark. Michelle, you know, had written so much of this book, you know, we call it an obsession in the subhead of the book. She definitely was, I mean, she was all about that. She wanted this case solved. And, you know, I think with the book coming out and her husband, who is the comedian Patton Oswalt, going on a book tour. We really are bringing this story to light and bringing this killer to light. I think with that, coupled with the DNA, we're going to get some answers. To Paul Haynes, researcher on the book I'll Be Gone in the Dark, what is the significance of the title I'll Be Gone in the Dark?

He used that phrase or variations on that phrase with at least three victims. And, you know, those are words that are designed to inflict terror. I think as much as this offender was a killer and a rapist, he was also a terrorist. And I think that was his primary objective was to control and terrorize his victims. And to hear the phrase, you'll be silent forever and I'll be gone in the dark as a threat, that's bone chilling. That reminds you that you're up against a faceless killer who will slay you and get away with it. And I think that everything that he did with his victims was designed to play into a specific fantasy that he had, a specific script

that he was trying to follow. And oftentimes victims would report that it sounded as though he were reading from a script. You mean the phenomena of paraphilia, sexual perversion or deviation, where it's all about situations, fantasies, behaviors. And that attraction has been labeled as a fetish. The fact that you're telling me it sounded like he was reading from a script or he would always say the same words over and over. It almost sounds like the movie Groundhog Day, where you keep reliving the same day to try to perfect it. He kept reliving the same crime over and over, Paul.

And, you know, he would ask the victim a question. And as soon as the victim began answering, he would he would say, shut up. You know, there was he had no interest in actually engaging with the victim. It was purely about enacting something. And, you know, the stalking, the surveillance, this is all part of obviously a pattern of behavior that was titillating for this offender. And, you know, when you consider the exhaustive number of hours that he invested in this activity, you know, it must've consumed a sizable portion of his life. And that's why, you know, when, when you consider that this person has gone unidentified for over 40 years,

I mean, it's mind boggling. There's somebody in Sacramento who is aware of, to some extent, a person that they knew that their behavior and their patterns and their schedule just wasn't right. And that's partly what we're hoping to do is jog someone's memory so that they might surrender a name, which would lead to this offender's identity and hopefully capture. Interesting. This is what we believe would be his profile according to one of the primary profiles done on him by Leslie D'Ambrosia, a white male, dressed well, would not stand out as not fitting in in an upscale neighborhood, a well-maintained car, engaged in deviant behavior and brutal sex in personal life, likely engaged in sex with prostitutes, may have had a criminal record as a teen that was expunged, knowledge of police investigation and evidence-gathering techniques, hated women for either real or perceived wrongs,

some means of income but did not work in early morning hours, possibly married, probably, as I've seen in so many of the sex attack cases I've prosecuted started as a voyeur lived and worked near Ventura, California in 1980 neat, well organized likely peeped into the windows of victims including victims who were not attacked

I'll just soak that in for a moment including victims who were not attacked. I'll just soak that in for a moment. Skilled and experienced cat burglar. Good physical condition. Appeared to be harmless and will continue committing these crimes until there is some sort of incapacitation, be it prison, death, or something else. In his personal life, likely to be considered arrogant, domineering, manipulative, and a chronic liar.

To Jane Carson Sandler, victim author of frozen in fear a true story of surviving the shadows of death does that profile sound accurate oh yes ma'am yes ma'am it was interesting when I think it was Paul that said that he fit the profile of a terrorist. And that just really hit me because that's really what he was trying to do is terrorize us. You know, rape is not about sex. It's about power and control. And that's what he was all about, power and control. To Michelle Cruz, that profile by D'Ambrosio, does that sound correct to you? I don't know. I don't, I just don't know. It's so hard.

Yeah, because I, there's so many different types. It's hard for me to say. You're right. To Billy Jensen, investigative journalist who helped put together I'll Be Gone in the Dark by Michelle McNamara. Billy, let's weigh in on what his M.O. tells us. What more can you tell us about his modus operandi and his possible identity, Billy? He really is the most frightening serial killer I've certainly ever encountered

because, you know, you think about the serial killers in history. Son of Sam, the people were outside. You know, they were on lover's lanes or the Zodiac killer. You can't think of anything more secure than being in your own home. And, you know, I think that's the idea that this guy probably didn't have power in his life. And this is how he was exerting power. You know, he had this second life that he felt this need to exert this power over people. And that was what this was about. You know, I think Paul really hit the nail on the head there that this guy was a terrorist. The sex was definitely part of the

motivation, but it wasn't the main motivation. The sex was being used for power. So the idea that, you know, the best clues that we have in order to find this guy are we have his DNA, and there's a lot of advances with familial DNA going on right now where we know he's not in the system. His DNA is not in the system, but maybe a relative of his is finding that or even potentially using, you know, any kind of commercial DNA. Back to the MO, which is what I was asking you about. I read a very old news article from about 1977 on microfiche. And it said that noise outside may have curved this guy. At that time, he was referred to as the East Rapist, now the Golden State Killer. It was a group of noisy teenagers hanging out on a corner that may have saved a Foothill Farms woman from becoming the 28th victim of the East Area Rapist, now the Golden State Killer, who had assaulted at that time 27 other women,

broke into a woman's home around 1130 on a Friday night, tied her up, the victim in her 30s, roamed through the home about two hours. But then because of the noise outside, he suddenly heard a burst of sound by a bunch of teen boys. He left. Now, we know that the husband was not at home at the time, as did the Golden State Killer. There was a child in the home, just like Jane Carson Sandler told us. Her three-year-old son was in bed with her, but the child slept through the incident. This is chillingly familiar.

The resident chosen for the attack was the second attack in the same area. Most of the East Area rapes occurred in an unincorporated area of the county. It went on and on here. The elements of the M.O. were almost exactly the same. He comes in. The victim is asleep in bed. She wakes up. She, this woman, woke up with a flashlight shining in her face,

just like Jane Carson Sandler did. She could not give a description because he had his face covered. He moved her from the bedroom to another room, the same way he moved Jane's son. I mean, the similarities are so striking. We also know that he assaulted a 13-year-old girl after he tied up her mother, according to this sheriff. Paul Haynes, many people don't realize a 13-year-old little girl had been one of his victims. Yeah, I think there were two 13-year-old girls that had been attacked by this offender. I think one of the last victims in Contra Costa was 13 or 14 years old. You know, the age range was quite broad from early teens to late 30s. And just to address some of the things that you've mentioned, you know, the ESA rapist did not always go through with the sexual assault. And in the case of the victim you were describing, it's likely that he was deterred by the teenagers outside.

In other instances, it's not quite clear why he didn't proceed with that element. You know, but again, as Jane was saying, Jane didn't actually, Jane didn't specifically remember the sexual assault. And this is something that crops up again and again. And the reports in the interviews with victims, the sexual assault element itself was rather unremarkable. You know, it was the least memorable element in many instances of the attack. And, you know, these instances where the ear, as we call them for short, did not proceed with the sexual assault, you know, we still look at those as ear attacks, you know, because all of the other elements were present. Let's talk about the phone calls and the hang-up calls that surround a lot of these cases.

What can you tell me about that, Billy Jensen? Well, one of the things that he would do is what, and there is some controversy as to whether they are connected or not, but he would call, and I don't know if he called anybody that's on this panel, but he would call people who he had attacked. Well, how could that not be connected? Well, it could have been somebody that knew the person had been attacked and decided to just mess with them. Well, there's so many of them, right?

I mean, there's so many of the hang up calls and the calls. I mean, you've got one victim gets a call that says, I'm going to kill you. I'm going to kill you, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch. And it's that same evening. I mean, who I didn't receive that call the same evening she was attacked. She received that call a year and a half after the attack. But other victims had received similar calls, but not with the same verbiage. Let's see here. I'm reading the transcript of January 2. Later that evening, the same victim received another call, much more sinister in nature. The call was also recorded and identified by the victim as being the voice of the assailant. Earlier in the evening, she had received a wrong number call, but the attack was a year and a half prior to that. And you think that may have been someone pranking her?

I mean, there's a possibility. I think most likely that was the offender. Oh, okay. Because I thought you said that they were not connected. No, no. I said that there's controversy that some people said that they might not be connected. You know, I think, Nancy, we want to be cautious in our verbiage because these are things that have not been conclusively linked. So let's assume for a moment that it was a crank.

To assume or to take as fact that that was the offender, that could potentially send you in the direction of a red herring. So we believe that it most likely was the offender, but we want to also allow for the possibility that it was not. If you look at, again, the police reports, you see hang-up calls and wrong number calls and all sorts of phone calls associated with not merely the victims themselves, but neighbors of the victims, which I think also indicates that rather than choosing a particular victim, this is an offender who targeted neighborhoods.

And that's really important, Nancy, is that, you know, when we talk about the M.O., the neighborhoods that he chose, particularly when we're talking about Sacramento and Rancho Cordova, you know, you can do geographic profiling of his attacks. And that's going to be one of the big keys in finding this guy, because when you've attacked so many people in an area, you can see that he obviously either worked or lived in a specific area and or at least had a lot of business being there, maybe, you know, had a girlfriend there or something and would go outside late at night and work this area. Because when you plot it out on a map, it's pretty clear that he probably had something to do with that area and was in what a lot of people figure is maybe a buffer zone in the middle of where all these attacks were.

To Jane Sandler joining me, Jane, when you hear the discussion of the MOs and possible clues, what do you make of the clues that have been left behind, particularly all the crank calls, the threatening calls, the slurs on women that were in many of the calls to the crime victims. Many of them state that they had a series, a spate of hang-up calls and obscene calls and just unusual calls, wrong number calls around the time of the attack. What do you make of that, Jane? He's just trying to cause more fear and more terror. I had hang up calls before and after, and he never said anything, but he would just stay on the line. And I just knew, I just knew it was him. I did have my phone wiretapped, but unfortunately they were never able to connect the source. But that's just causing, you know, more fear. I did have that in my notes that occurred with you.

Hang up phone calls to his victims, seemingly a big part of the Golden State Killers M.O. Now, police believe he got the victim's numbers from burglarizing or casing their homes ahead of time. He would call both before and after the attack, maybe to figure out his target's whereabouts, or as Jane is saying, to further terrorize the victim. What do you make of that, Jane? That, again, was just, that was his M.O. That was what he was all about, fear and terror. And that's why I named my book Frozen in Fear, because that was the emotion that was overwhelming.

That was the one that really stuck out to me. But, you know, his M.O. of the clenched teeth, speaking through the clenched teeth and the shut up. I mean, if he said shut up once, he said it, you know, ten times. And his tearing of the sheets. And, I mean, definitely, you know, it was the same person every time, every time, every time. And then to, you know, follow that up when you think that, you know, it was the same person every time, every time, every time. And then to, you know, follow that up when you think that, you know, you're beginning to heal,

and then you get a phone call and it's a hang-up again. Even today, the last time there was a show on TV about this case, a few days later, I had five hang-up phone calls, one in three times one day and two the next. Now, after 40-some years, that really frightened me. So we put an alarm system on our home just because of those five phone calls, those five hang-up phone calls. Now, do I think it was the East Area Rapist? No, but it was a prank. But that prank was enough to really frighten me and even you know if the phone rang right now and someone

were to not even to breathe but just to you know is it a solicitor or is it the east area rapist or is it you know just someone that's just trying to play with my head. But it never goes away, Nancy. With me is Jane Carson Sandler, Michelle Cruz, both victims of the now-named Golden State Killer. Take a listen to one of his calls that we have obtained. Listen. Listen. I'm going to kill you. I'm going to kill you.

I'm going to kill you. I'm going to go off in my head. Open up your bird. Right now, the so-called Golden State Killer still walking free, many people believe. I want to thank Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute, Paul Haynes, researcher on I'll Be Gone in the Dark, Words of the Golden State Killer, Billy Jensen, investigative journalist who extensively went through raw chapters

of Michelle McNamara's book just coming out, I'll Be Gone in the Dark, and especially to Michelle Cruz, sister of 12th victim, murder victim Janelle Cruz, and Jane Sandler, victim number five, who still lives in fear, author of Frozen in Fear, a true story of surviving the shadows of death. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend.