Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Sisters Carla Atkins & Vickie Stout go for gum & crackers, found in shallow graves

Episode Date: December 27, 2023

Vickie Stout and Carla Sue Atkins were half-sisters. The teens, who were extremely close with each other, share the same mother.  were very close.  The girls walked to a combination bait shop, restaurant, and convenience store called "The Furnace" to pick up some snacks. Witnesses report seeing the girls talking to someone in a blue pickup truck. That’s the last time anyone has seen the sisters. In the days that followed, local law enforcement labeled the sisters as runaways. A hiker then called the police after smelling a foul odor.  Deputies discovered the girls’ bodies about 75 feet apart, along with shotgun shells and a light blue stain found on a tree.  The autopsy revealed a shotgun killed the girls, but their bodies were too decomposed to reveal if they’d been sexually assaulted.  Joining Nancy Grace Today: Trish Gordon -  Sister of Vickie Stout and half-sister of Carla Atkins  Amelia Courtney - Working with Trish, Co-host of the Podcast, “Murder At Land Between The Lakes;" Facebook: Murder At Land Between Lakes  Karra Porter -  Attorney, Co-founder of the Cold Case Coalition; Instagram: @ColdCaseCoalition Dr. Shari Schwartz – Forensic Psychologist (Specializing in Capital Mitigation and Victim Advocacy); Author: “Criminal Behavior” and “Where Law and Psychology Intersect: Issues in Legal Psychology;” Twitter: @TrialDoc"  Chris McDonough – Director At the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective; Host of YouTube channel: “The Interview Room” Dr. Tim Gallagher – Medical Examiner State of Florida; Lecturer: University of Florida Medical School Forensic Medicine; Founder/Host: International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference Toby Wolson – Forensic Consultant Specializing in DNA, Serology, and Bloodstain Pattern Analysis Levi Page - Crimeonline.com Investigative Reporter   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Carla Atkins, just 14 years old. Vicki Stout, just 16. Think about it. That's the age of my twins. Carl Atkins, 14. Vicki Stout, 16. Gunshot wounds to the heads. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Sirius XM 111.

Take a listen to this. A few weeks later on October 5th, hikers were in this area called Land Between the Lakes where they smell an odor. That's when they contacted the Sheriff's Department where deputies discovered the girls' bodies. You are hearing our friends at Fox 17. And right now, I'm going to go to a special guest joining us. This is Vicki and Carla's sister, Trish Gordon. Trish, thank you for being with us.

Thank you for having me. Trish, do you remember when you learned Vicki and Carla were missing? Yes, ma'am. I was living in the next county over about 30 minutes away. I was at work that evening, and my brother Roger called me. It was just starting to get dark outside and he said, mom wanted me to call and tell you that Carl and Vicki walked to the store up the road and they haven't come home. Have you, have they been over there? You know, have you seen them? I'm like, no. I'm like, surely they'll be home later.

To which store were they walking? It was a little convenience store at the top of the hill from where they live, the Furnace. Let me ask you a question. How far away was the Furnace from where they lived? Less than a mile. It was just right up the hill. It was less than a mile. You're sending chills down my spine right now because, you know, let me go out to Chris McDonough, colleague, and now I believe friend, director of the Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective, about 300 homicide investigations under his belt and host. This is where I found him of a YouTube channel called The Interview Room. You can find him at coldcasefoundation.org. This reminds me of one of, actually the first case we ever covered

on Crime Stories. It was the case of this beautiful little boy, Chucky Mock. And one picture springs to mind. It's of him in his little League outfit. I believe he was about 12. He asked his mom, who is now a friend, Hey, Mom, they just had supper, Chris McDonough. And the mom, this is very poignant, it sticks in my mind, had her back to Chucky. And she was washing dishes in the sink. And her hands were in the soapy water.

He goes, Mom, can I ride my bike to the store? She goes, Sure. Hurry back. He said, I want to go get some candy. And she says to this day, Why didn't I turn around? To this day, that detail just drives her crazy. So Chucky rides his bike about a block and a half to the store, and an adult male pulls up in a car, exchanges words with him, and shoots him dead right there in the store parking lot.

Unsolved to this day. Chris McDonough. You know, Nancy, these are the type of cases that just irk every one of us in our society. The innocence of youth, like the description you just gave of that young child, and now these two poor little girls, what we have to initially take a look at here is what we would call the contact site. And in this case, it sounds like it's that convenience store, the furnace, and it's within a mile of where these young ladies live.

I would be curious to know what type of eyewitnesses they may have in relationship to have seen something around that time, because that would tell us about a risk level to the particular type of suspect. Also joining me, Kara Porter, attorney, co-founder, Coal Case Coalition at CoalCaseHelp.com. Kara, thank you for joining us. I mean, just off the top of my head, I can name so many cases. There was the went coal, but we just got it solved the case of a little girl, Debbie Randall, who went literally across the street to the laundromat and was never seen alive again until she was found by volunteers. There is Eitan Patz.

Remember Eitan? Walked to school for the first time after practicing and practicing, and he was kidnapped and killed. There's Carly Bruscia. Carly in Florida was walking home from a spend the night with her little friend girl and was walking home just blocks from her own home. And she cut catty cornered across the back of a car wash and she was kidnapped and horribly sex assaulted and murdered. I mean, I could go on and on and on. A few blocks.

It's not that much, right? And then they're gone. And in this case, you hear the sister, Trish Gordon, the sister of Vicki and Carla, it was no distance at all to the furnace. It's like a 7-Eleven type store. And the parents, I'm sure, think, well, that's just fine. You know, and it wasn't uncommon.

It's not uncommon. I'm from a smaller town. And, you know, walking to the local, whatever the, you know, whatever the equivalent of the local 7-Eleven is, you know, the furnace, to get whatever they were getting. And then walking back. That is something that happens every day. In one case, we're a group of all volunteers. We've had about between 400 and 600 families that have reached out to us. But one of them, the mother was looking out the back window.

And then an instant later, the child was gone. That reminds me of the Samantha Runyon case. Samantha, three years old, was staying with her grandmother and playing in the front yard, I believe with other children. And the perp pulls up, grabs her out of the front yard, and he's gone. Of course, molests her, assaults her, and kills her. And I became friends with her mother, Erin Runyon, and it happened just like that. Just like that.

And you think, oh, it's just a block. You know, and you don't want to raise your child thinking that all these horrible things are going to happen to them. To Dr. Sherry Schwartz, joining us, forensic psychologist, author of Criminal Behavior and Where Law and Psychology Intersect at panthermitigation.com. Dr. Sherry, I'll never forget when Lucy, I guess she was 11 or 12, said, Mom, am I ever going to get to go on a walk by myself just around the block? I'm like, sure, of course you can. You can go right now. Can I tell you how quickly I call my husband? It was a 911 pronto call. You follow her that way. I'll follow her this way.

And I followed her. I tailed her. You know, she never saw me. And this went on for, you know, a couple of years. I'd follow her halfway. And then David would pick her up and see her the other way. And then she would be home. See, I mean, it's crazy. You don't want the child to grow up thinking they can't go for a walk for

Pete's sake. That's true. But the harsh reality is all of us are living in a world where we have to be very careful because these are the things that can happen. At the same time, you want your child to grow up and feel like they have some independence because that's important to their growth and development. But then when something like this happens, the families of these victims tend to blame themselves. I should have done this. What if I had done this?

What if I just said no? As code, Lucy's going for a walk. All hands on deck when Lucy decides to go for a walk alone. Okay, back to these two girls, 14 and 16. Think about it. A gunshot wound to the head at age 14 and 16. Guys, what more do we know? Listen. It was three weeks before the missing girls' bodies were found and evidence was collected. One of the crime scene investigators at the time said shotgun shells were found, as well as one of the girls' flip-flops. He said it was his belief that she was running, trying to get away.

He also reported finding a light blue stain on a tree. He says the height at which the stain was found would indicate it came from a truck. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. It was three weeks before the missing girls' bodies were found and evidence was collected. One of the crime scene investigators at the time said shotgun shells were found, as well as one of the girls' flip-flops. He said it was his belief that she was running, trying to get away. He also reported finding a light blue stain on a tree. He says the height at which the stain was found would indicate it came from a truck. Wow, so we have the light blue stain.

We have more, but the case is going cold. It's going cold. How can we stop that? 16-year-old Vicki Stout and 14-year-old Carla Sue Adkins were half-sisters. They shared a mother. Vicki Stout and Carla Sue Adkins were very close. They lived with their mother, brothers, and sisters near Dover, Tennessee. The two girls extremely close. Listen to our friends at Crime Online. Vicki Stout and Carla Sue Adkins rode the same bus to school, even though they went to different schools.

Carla Sue was a student at Dover Elementary, while Vicki was a student at Stewart County High School. After school on September 17th, Vicki Stout and Carla Sue Atkins got off their school bus and walked down to the combination bait shop restaurant convenience store called The Furnace and picked up some snacks before continuing the walk to their house. It was about 3.30 in the afternoon. So the last people to see the girls say they saw them talking to someone in a blue pickup truck. It was at the furnace, like 7-Eleven, and it circled the highway by the store. That's what we know so far. Let me ask Amelia Courtney joining us. Amelia has been working

with Sister Trish Gordon and she is the co-host of a hit podcast called Murder at Land Between the Lakes about this case. Amelia Courtney, thank you for being with us. Is that where the composite originated from the witnesses at the furnace? The composite sketch did come from an eyewitness that did talk to the police department, the sheriff's department. The first composite sketch was actually released in 1980, but it was a rough sketch. So they did have the first rough sketch right away. And then later on in 2020, they released updated sketches. So the composite was made from eyewitnesses at the

furnace, which is like a bait shop, 7-Eleven, as in fish bait. Is that right? It came from like another woman down the street, actually. She saw something and she gave a detailed description of the person that she saw in the truck. Trish Gordon joining us. This is Vicki and Carla's sister. Why did the police wait so long to speak to witnesses and get that composite sketch? That's a good question. That's a good question. They initially told us it was within a day or two that they thought Vicki and Carla had run away. So I don't think they really did any searching initially. And I don't know why they waited so long to come out with the composite. I don't have that answer. OK, looking back on missteps, I agree with everyone.

It's not going to help us now. We've got to move forward. And so far, what we've got is a composite. We've got a composite of the person last seen speaking to the 14 and 16 year old Carla and Vicki. And we know a blue truck. And we have the paint. We have a paint scraping. I assume to Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter who found this case and brought it to our attention. Levi Page, please tell me the police

got that blue scraping off of the tree or wherever they saw it. Yes, they did. The crime scene investigators recovered it. Okay. There's a lot you can tell from that. I'm going to go to Dr. Tim Gallagher, medical examiner. Explain how, explain the process of getting, for instance, paint or some substance off of an object and maintaining it because you retrieve substances all day long. You have to be very, very careful. Well, that's true, Nancy. You do have to be extremely careful. The paint is very fragile and it can disintegrate very quickly if it's not stored correctly. So the paint has to be removed very delicately with small instruments that are supplied to CSI or

crime scene investigators and then that paint is put in an airtight container it is dry and then it is then sent to forensics for the paint to be analyzed and the paint combination the paint composition of materials can be analyzed and you can actually determine the make and approximate year of the vehicle that the paint has come from. For instance, the motor companies in Detroit use a certain paint for a certain car during a certain period of time. And using forensic analysis, you can take that paint and determine the type of car. For instance, maybe it's a Ford motor car built between, say, 1997 and 1999. So you can narrow it down that way. But the storage of the paint, the careful removal of the paint is critical in getting that analysis done. Because, doctor, there are so many subtleties

when it comes to car paint. Okay, you see a car and you go, oh, it's blue. No, no, no, no. My son loves F-150s. Okay. He used to like a taco, Tacoma, but now he's into F-150s. And we drive through, you know, the lots of the car dealerships. He goes, that's a great white. I went, oh, white. So I looked up online. Guess what? There's optic white. There's Oxford white.

There's ivory white. They all look white to me. But the dealership knows the difference. One may have a little sparkle in it. One may be matte, like matte, M-A-T-T-E, lipstick. So the dealerships, the manufacturers, they know the difference and it can be traced to a dealership. I mean, if you think that sounds far-fetched, you can even trace a trash bag that has a body in it, like the one holding the body of little Kelly Anthony to the manufacturer.

You can get the batch like this. 600 bags were sent to this Kroger. You can do that. It's not far fetched anymore. I want to get back to this case. Guys, take a listen to this. Their mother reported something wrong to get back to this case. Guys, take a listen to this. Their mother reported something wrong to juvenile officers that same day. The missing girl's 22-year-old sister,

Patricia Gordon, received a call from her brother saying the girls hadn't come home, but she didn't worry yet. The next day, I think I called and they said they hadn't come back, and then that's kind of when we started to panic. A few days later, Gordon says her family started to think the worst. Then you realize something really bad's happened. You know, but what's happened? You're hearing our friends at Fox 17 and our special guest today. Let me go to Trish Gordon, Vicki and Carla's sister.

So at first, the mom thought, well, okay, they're with friends. But then as the hours passed, everyone became horribly worried. When did it sink in, do you think, that they aren't just with a friend, they're not out joyriding, they're not just staying late, they're not at a movie, they're not at the mall? When did it hit? They're really gone. Probably that next afternoon.

They had never stayed away from home all night like that and not contacted someone. You know, we called all their friends. They weren't with any of their friends. You know, I hadn't seen them. So they hadn't contacted mom. Nobody in town had seen them, the ones that we had asked. And we knew, because Carla was on medication, that she had to take daily. So we knew they left with nothing.

She would have taken her medicine with her had she not been meaning to come home. And from what I understand, they had never stayed out overnight before without permission. No, never. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, take a listen to our friends at WKRN. Here's a mom, sister's family, worried. Where are the girls? Where are the girls? And then this.

We kind of thought maybe they were just with some friends. Just decided not to, you know, come back home when they should have. In the days that followed, local law enforcement labeled the sisters as runaway, covering it from the start. David R. Ross. There was this three-week span where the girls were missing. The initial reports were that they were runaway. Autopsy reports show they both died of a shotgun wound to the head. To Levi Page, was the bullet found? Yes, bullets were found, and it was from a 12-gauge shotgun.

There is the NIST, Ballistics Toolmark Research Database, and it is an open-access research database of bullet and cartridge case toolmark data. Do we know, Amelia, whether these shotguns, anything to do with shotgun bullets have been run through the ballistics database? Ms. Anthony, I don't know if they have done that. I know they found they had a wad left, and they do find shotgun shells, and they had bullets. Like they were scattered around and some were collected.

And right now they still have some evidence that's being tested. What evidence would that be, do you know? I'm not privy to say right now. So you know, but you can't say. To Chris McDonough, Director of Cold Case Foundation in the interview room, jump in. It's important to understand why the contact site is so critical in this case, because it tells us a lot about why the individual who did this put the girls in the location they were found. And here's where I'm going with this. You have an eyewitness who sees this blue truck. And so that in and of itself is a risk to the suspect. So then we measure the day of the week. It's a Wednesday, middle of going to tell us this individual is very comfortable in that area. And now when we go back to where the shotgun shells were found and we look at the truck back in that time, it was not unusual to have a gun rack within vehicles all over probably middle Tennessee,

especially in a small town of about 2,000 people. Yes. I got another question on this. Everything that Chris McDonough just said is correct in trying to corral the perp. I'm wondering, Trish Gordon, do we know if your sisters were raped? According to the autopsy report, they said that there was no evidence of it. Were they clothed when their bodies were found? Partially. And they tell us that probably animals had, you know, taken clothing off.

I think one body was probably had more clothing on it than the other one. That all really depends on how the clothing was removed and where the clothing was found. Dr. Tim Gallagher, explain. Well, generally, when a rape occurs, especially a rape and a homicide occur, that the underwear and pants are removed and sometimes the shirt is lifted up over the breasts and that the body is left that way. You know, one of the other things that I wanted to point out to your last question about the about the Nibin and the shotgun is that unlike a rifle or a handgun where you pull the trigger once and one bullet comes out. In a shotgun, you pull the trigger once and a spray of sometimes hundreds of little BBs come out.

And so running one of those little BBs through NIBIN is going to be useless because there's no rifling marks on it. There's no unique characteristics, you know, to that projectile that kniving can use to help identify where it came from. So when you pull a trigger on a handgun, one bullet comes out, you pull a trigger on a rifle, one bullet comes out, you pull a trigger on a shotgun, hundreds, hundreds of metallic projectiles come out at the same time. So tracing that through kniving is going to be extremely difficult, if not impossible. I don't even think it's been done yet. Well, you're absolutely right.

So all our discussion of ballistics was pointless, but had to be done. As in every investigation, you have to go all the way. Guys, I'm hearing who I was about to go to. Great minds. Ha ha. Toby Wilson is with us. Forensic consultant specializing in DNA, serology, and bloodstain at noslowforensic.com. Toby, jump in.

Well, I was just going to say, Niven's not going to assist you with the identification on this one in terms of the lead spray that comes out. But what they can work from is the shotgun shell if they retrieved it because a mark is left on the base of that shell by the pin of the shotgun when it slams into it to cause the explosion of the gunpowder in it and the propelling of the cup and projectiles forward. So if they have the shell, there's a possibility of comparing that back to a particular shotgun and saying, yes, this shotgun fired the shell. You're absolutely right. Guys, what more do we know? Take a listen to our cut nine, our friends at Fox 17. The autopsy revealed a shotgun killed the girls. Their bodies were too decomposed to reveal if they'd been sexually assaulted. An artist sketch with age progressions showed the man

described by witnesses seen driving that blue pickup truck where the girls were last seen. The TBI agent heading the investigation at that time, Jack Charlton, believed the sketch could be the girl's abductor, murderer, or witness. I'm like, well, this won't take any time at all. You know, they're going to find who did this, wrap it up, and it's done with. Well, that is my hope. But the fact that there's an age progression composite sketch is very heartening. To Amelia Courtney, working with Trish Gordon, the sister of Carla and Vicki, co-host of Murder at Land Between the Lakes, what do you believe is the strongest lead?

Well, Ms. Nancy, I think that this case is definitely solvable, and that's why we started the podcast from the beginning. When my co-host, Lainey Sullivan, and I we started the podcast from the beginning was when we first, my co-host Laney Sullivan and I first started this podcast, we, you know, I knew Trish and her family and I saw that there was nothing being done on this case. There was no information to be found. And it was heartbreaking to me that these two sisters had been, you know, violently murdered and there was hardly any information to be found. So when we came to Trish and started the podcast, we went into it and it was hard to find information

from, you know, the authorities. And, but once we started opening up a lot of communication with the public and the community, they started giving us information left and right. And that's when we started trying to talk to General Crouch and the TBI and trying to form a partnership with him. Not really a partnership, but open line of communication with them. So we could really give them the information we were receiving and, you know, without, you know, harming the integrity of the podcast and also, you know, keep our sources, you know, safe and also, you know, respect the wishes of the TBI as well. So that's how, you know, our podcast, you know, really, you know, was helpful and, you know,

getting information and helping work on solving this case. We were able to get a lot of information from the public that didn't want to share information with the police because I'm not sure the trust was there from the beginning. So there is one more eyewitness that we didn't even know about until just recently, about a year ago, there was another eyewitness form, I guess you would say, that was found in a file that no one had heard about or seen about. And this eyewitness, as you stated earlier, saw the blue truck that did have the rifle rack in the back of it, behind it, and was able to see the driver even more clearly and gave a better description of the driver. Saw the girls talking to the driver as though they did know the person and saw the girls get in the truck and was able to give, like I said, a better description.

And this eyewitness statement was pretty, I mean, this person seemed to have a pretty accurate description of what they saw. So we've narrowed it down based on what everyone on this panel has deduced to a local male in a truck with a gun rack, blue in color. The girls actually got into the truck. Take a listen to our friend Jackie Howard. In 2011, Stewart County Sheriff Derek White came on board and the search began anew for a suspect. Four years later, the DA says there are now three or four people that investigators are highly interested in and have narrowed down a pool of suspects.

Is this true, Levi Page? Is there a short list of POIs, persons of interest? Yes, Nancy. Over the last handful of years, there has been news articles, a podcast about this case. There's been a new energy breathed into this case and new witnesses have come forward and they have been able to narrow it down to a list of persons of interest. That's amazing to me, Trish Gordon. I'm not going to ask you who, but do you know who's on the list? Yes, ma'am.

Does the list make sense to you, Trish? Are they locals that lived in the area that had a truck blue in color at the time your sisters were murdered? Yes, absolutely. I mean, how many people can it be? How many people are in that small area with a blue truck, with a gun rack, living there, male in the driving age range and beyond, on the day the two girls were murdered. How hard can it be? That's my question, Trish Gordon. It shouldn't be.

It shouldn't be. I think it's very obvious to most people there as to who the suspect or suspects are. I think it's very obvious. It's obvious to me. To Chris McDonough, Director of Cold Case Foundation in the interview room. Jump in. So my assessment of what I've heard here today is pretty clear that probably within the first 150 pages of the initial investigation, the suspect is known. And I think because of the fact that

it's a rural community, it's a logging community, and it's such a small residential area, i.e. 2,000 people at the time, that this individual's been hiding in plain sight. And to raise awareness like this, you have now a conversation about eyewitnesses who've actually seen people, you have, you know, touched DNA potentially, even on the back of a shotgun shell, you can pull off fingerprints because somebody had to load that shotgun. If they don't have DNA, they may have fingerprints, evidence that they could continue to go after. Even with today's technology, it's improved since the date of this incident. So my belief is this individual is nearby.

He's been in that community within 30 miles would be my assessment. And I 100 percent believe that he could be brought to justice if the individual is still alive today. Guys, hold on. Take a listen to our friends WPSD and KRN. I don't know how they can live with themselves, but they're able to live day to day. And we still have this this question mark of who and why. I would like to see not only justice for this family, but justice for this community. They will get their justice someday. You know, they'll get what's coming to them, whether it be in my lifetime or not. The District Attorney General, Ray Crouch, has now put new efforts into solving this case.

And evidence has been sent for a private DNA lab testing. To Toby Wilson, what, if anything, can be learned from specific and highly, highly technical DNA testing? Well, there's a lot that can be learned. It just depends on the quality of the DNA being tested. But as time has progressed since the beginning of DNA analysis to today, we've been able to work with more and more DNA that is low-grade quality, very, very degraded. And there's new technologies that are allowing this to be done, such as SNP technologies and next- generation sequencing, things of that nature. There's even some work going on at DNA repair that might make it possible. And what makes this obvious that we can do this is just a few weeks ago, two more people from the World Trade Center attack in 9-11 were identified using some of these newer technologies. So,

as time progresses, the DNA degrades, especially if it's not handled properly while it's being stored. But we are developing new technologies that allow us to work with more and more samples that are degraded. The problem is that if they become too degraded, they're probably, it's irreversible. So it really depends on the quality of the DNA being used. And the reason it gets sent to private labs is these new technologies, most public labs don't have them now. They're very expensive. It takes time to get them quality reviewed so that you can use them in criminal cases. So the private labs have the ability to move forward faster because they have the money and they have the they can get the technology and they have the people to get these things reviewed so that they can use them for their casework. So that's why you send it to a private lab these days.

But ultimately, somewhere down the road, hopefully public labs will be doing these same types of analysis also. Nancy, it's Jackie. Can I jump in? Go ahead, jump in. Trish, weren't you told that DNA might be too degraded to be used? Yes, early on, they told me that the TBI told me that a lot of it is molded. And I'm not sure if it was the way it was stored initially. We were told it was put in plastic bags, and then some say it was put in paper bags. So we're not sure, but that's a lot of the holdup with testing the DNA is because we've told most of it is molded.

Well, the bacteria is a contamination that can break down the DNA. So it really is one of those situations you don't know how much of an effect it will have until you try the testing. There are ways to clean up some of it, but they may not be usable depending on how much damage has been done. I've seen really nasty samples, bad samples that you would have never predicted give DNA profiles, get work from them. The only way you're ever going to know the answer is you have to do it. Carla Atkins, just 14 years old. Vicki Stout, just 16. Gunshot wounds to the heads. Think about it. What that family had to go through. Let me go out to Trish Gordon. This is Vicki and Carla's sister.

Well, thank you for doing this for my family. And what I would like people to know is that they were happy, go lucky. They loved to laugh, loved to have fun. Never a sad day. They were just the happiest two individuals you could ever want to be around. Over the years, I had kind of lost hope in the case because it had gone cold, but my hope is renewed now with the help of Amelia's podcast, the new district attorney, new TBI agents, help of the FBI. So I do have hope now. I know there are individuals there that know who did this. And I think there's just that one person that needs to come forward, just one person, to tell the story of what they know.

I think we're just waiting for that one last piece of evidence to go along with what we have to finally bring him to justice. And yes, he's still alive. If you have information related to the deaths of Carla Atkins and Vicki Stout, you can contact the Covington Police Department at 901-475-1261 or email covingtonpolicedepartment at covingtontn.com. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.