Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - SMEAR CAMPAIGN: 'GOSSIP GIRL' BLAKE LIVELY BATTLES CO-STAR JUSTIN BALDONI, SHOCK 'SEX' CLAIMS

Episode Date: January 7, 2025

Blake Lively has filed a lawsuit against her It Ends with Us co-star and director, Justin Baldoni, alleging sexual harassment and claiming his behavior caused her “severe emotional distress.” According to TMZ, the lawsuit details a meeting attended by Lively, her husband Ryan Reynolds, Baldoni, their lawyers, and other cast and crew members. The meeting aimed to address Lively's claims and establish conditions for her continued involvement in the film. Lively’s concerns extend beyond herself, as she advocates for other female cast and crew members, some of whom have also spoken out. She reportedly outlined 30 requirements Baldoni must meet for her to continue working on the project. The list includes: “no more showing nude videos or images of women to Blake, no more mention of Baldoni’s alleged previous ‘pornography addiction,’ no more discussions about sexual conquests in front of Blake and others, no further mentions of cast and crew’s genitalia, no more inquiries about Blake’s weight, and no further mention of Blake’s dead father.” Joining Nancy Grace today:  Darryl Cohen – Former Assistant District Attorney (Fulton County, Georgia) Former Assistant State Attorney (Florida), and Defense Attorney: Cohen, Cooper, Estep, & Allen, LLC; Facebook: “Darryl B Cohen;” X: @DarrylBCohen Dr. Bethany Marshall – Author: “Deal Breaker,”  featured in hit show: “Paris in Love” on Peacock https://www.drbethanymarshall.com/ , Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, X: @DrBethanyLive Ashley Wardlow - Private Investigator and Chief Operations Officers at Nathans Investigations, website: www.nathans-investigations.com, IG: @miamiprivateinvestigators, FB: nathansinvestigations Lynn Shaw  –  Founder and Executive Director of Lynn’s Warriors Rob Shuter- Host: Naughty But Nice Podcast, Diddy Former Publicist, Author of “The 4 Word Answer;" IG: @naughtygossip See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A so-called smear campaign. Everybody's favorite gossip girl, Blake Lively, battles her co-star, Justin Baldoni, after shock sex harassment claims emerge. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

Bombshell lawsuit from Hollywood star Blake Lively alleges co-star Justin Baldoni sexually harassed and orchestrated a smear campaign against Lively. A smear campaign alleged? A campaign against everyone's favorite gossip girl, Blake Lively? What we are hearing includes undesired lip biting during sex scenes, sucking on lips, people barging into her dressing room while she's completely nude or partially nude or breastfeeding, allowing friends of friends to watch as she is partially nude performing sex scenes in very vulnerable positions.

What happened? Okay. The name of the movie, it ends with us from Wayfarer and Sony. Let's just take a peek. Hey, Lily, you want to do the honors? No, you go ahead. I need to take it in from here. I was hoping you'd say that.

Okay. Oh, my God. Oh, that's my brother, Ryle. The first official customer. That is from the official It Ends With Us movie trailer from Sony Pictures. Before we get into the meat of this vicious battle in court, I want to go to Rob Shooter very quickly, host of Naughty But Nice podcast,

former publicist, author of The Four Word Answer. Rob, thank you for being with us. Rob, you have worked with so many stars. I may need to go to a shrink on this, but do you believe, as many of us do, you know, the little people out there watching movies and TV, do you believe a star's true persona comes out on the screen? Oh, that's a really good question. I think that the most successful actors and actresses are playing roles where they can find an element of themselves in that role. And so I think that's the that's the sort of golden ticket here.

This is what makes them really, really successful. But we know from day one, forget the characters. These two just did not like each other from day one. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on hold on judge objection not responsive i simply asked you one thing and that is do actors and actresses do we see any of their real persona that's a yes no i don't know where you went with that shooter but But my point is, did you just see that trailer with Blake Lively? Because she seems so likable and friendly. Now, I never knew about Gossip Girls. I guess I was in law school or practicing law. But my daughter found it and we've been watching it.

You know, in all those years she was in Gossip Girl, I never heard a bad word about her at Rob Shooter. Am I wrong? Did I miss something? I've heard mixed things about Blake Lively over the years. I think here it's really difficult because it's hard to separate her from the characters that she's played, from the characters that we love. And so I think we want to believe that she is that person on the screen. But as we all know, let me analyze, quote, what you've heard about Blake Lively and all the years that she has been on camera. Give me two things negative about what you've heard about her, because I guarantee you it came from a mean girl, because I've seen so many women piling on to Blake Lively. I think they're jealous. So what are the bad things piling on to Blake Lively. I think they're jealous. So what are the bad things you've heard about Blake Lively? I've heard that she's very controlling.

I've heard she's very controlling. She what? Controlling. Controlling. Okay. What's wrong with that? Number two. What's the other thing?

I hear that she has very, very strong opinions. And these might not necessarily be- Oh, that's a bad thing. Oh no, a woman has an opinion. She goes straight to hell. Okay, what else? I've heard too, that now she's married to one of the most famous people, successful people in the entertainment business.

She's not frightened to flex her muscles. Okay, I asked you in all the years that she was a star on Gossip Girl, whatever else she did, what you heard about her. And now you're saying that because she's married to Ryan Reynolds, that she's not afraid to flex her muscle. See, that's entirely inconsistent. Because what you said before was she was controlling and has strong opinions. But now that she's married to a star, she's controlling and has strong opinions. See, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Are you claiming you heard Blake Lively was controlling with strong opinions before she got married? And then when she got married,

same thing? Absolutely. And that's part of her success here. You've got to be tough in this business. None of them are wallflower. She's tough. She's strong. She knows what she wants. But now she has power. But how is that bad? You know what? I'm running down a rabbit hole with you and I'm getting nowhere.

All right. So far from you, Rob Shooter, who has your nose and your ear to the ground. That's the worst thing you got to throw at me about her. And look, I don't have a dog in the fight. I'm just analyzing this court case. You know what? Hold on. Let's start at the beginning when everybody loved everybody. Listen, this has been a passion project and something that has been so near and dear to my heart and so many, and it wouldn't happen without you, without your love love without your support

without you being such huge fans of the book and caring so much about lily and her story hello blake lively here colleen hoover and it ends with us is in theaters now so grab your friends wear your florals and head out to see it okay first of all what's the floral what does that mean wear a floral does that mean a floral print dress? Is that what she's talking about? OK, don't have any of those. But that said, that is from the official Instagram page of the movie. It ends with us. Now, did you see everybody all smiles and happy and getting along? How did it go from that to this? A bombshell lawsuit filed by Blake Lively against her co-star and director less than two weeks after the movie It Ends With Us leaves theaters,

having pulled in over $350 million. The lawsuit alleges sexual harassment and claims that Baldoni exhibited behavior that caused her severe emotional distress. DMZ reports the lawsuit states there was a meeting attended by individuals including Lively, her husband Ryan Reynolds, Baldoni, and their lawyers to address Lively's claims as well as other cast and crew members, and to reach an agreement on requirements Lively needed to continue working on the film. Okay, that smells like trouble.

In the middle of a project, you have to have a big meeting about the requirements necessary to move forward on that project. Okay, so it goes from everyone being totally in love to a bombshell lawsuit, and now this. Justin Baldoni files a $250 million lawsuit against the New York Times over the investigative article titled We Can Bury Anyone Inside a Hollywood Smear Machine. Baldoni and nine other plaintiffs,

including publicist Melissa Nathan and Jennifer Abel, are suing the Times for libel and false light invasion of privacy over the article. The group's suing includes producers of the movie It Ends With Us, Jamie Heath and Steve Sarowitz, claim the New York Times relied on altered communications, stripped of necessary context and deliberately spliced to mislead. OK, straight out to Daryl Cohen joining me, former felony prosecutor, now high profile civil and defense attorney. Daryl, thank you for being with us. You've been involved in so many movie scenarios. It's really hard to make sense of what is the truth that's going to be decided in court, of course. But when I have a damning piece of evidence against someone and their defense says,

oh, you took that out of context. OK, I would have a field day with that. Yes, I wrote the damning piece of evidence. I said that. But you took it out of context. That that's what do you make of that? We'll start, Nancy. This is complete nothing more than Hollywood.

It's Hollywood all over again. Think Amber Heard and Johnny Depp. This is nothing more than that. It is out of context or it's not out of context. Cohen, wait a minute. Nothing more than, quote, Hollywood entertainment. I call a $250 million lawsuit a lot more than just gossip, innuendo, or rumor. And not only that, when someone takes down or tries to take down your reputation, which is really all you've got. Once you lose that technical legal

term, you're screwed. If this is true, that Baldoni tried to destroy Lively's reputation, that's a very big deal. That's all she's got is her reputation. That's true. But Nancy, she has more than that. She has a mouth, she has a brain and she has a publicity machine. And because of that, whatever he did, whatever she did is a fight to the finish. What's the finish? More films. What's the finish? More parts, more roles and stay in the public eye. And that's what this is really about. I completely disagree with you. To Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us, high profile psychoanalyst out of LA and author of Deal Breaker. You can see her now on Peacock. Dr. Bethany, thank you for being with us. I agree and disagree with Daryl Cohen. He's an expert in movie relations,

movie lawsuits, that whole shebang. But I think it's more than that because claims have been made by Lively that Baldoni would bust into her trailer when she was completely naked, partially naked, breastfeeding, that he would, he denies all this, that he would allow friends to watch filming of her in sex scenes where she's partially naked. Also, a scene where she is giving birth naked in a very vulnerable position, as you can imagine. I would do a backflip. And everybody's trashing her about bringing in Ryan Reynolds, her husband, to a meeting.

I'd have to beg my husband not to kill somebody. Don't start a big fight for Pete's sake. Don't get us all thrown in jail. Why shouldn't she bring her husband in? I mean, this is so bass-ackwards. I don't get it. You know, Nancy, part of a healthy marriage is that couples protect each other. So he's coming in to protect his wife. I think what's interesting about this movie is that life imitates art in a way. And Justin Baldoni is the producer. And he has chosen to produce a movie about a man who's sexually aggressive and a woman who decides to end intergenerational domestic violence.

This is his story. It's not hers. She's merely an actress in it. And so from a psychoanalytic perspective, I would wonder if this story is near and dear movie is about a woman victimized. And now there are claims that a woman is being victimized as part of the movie. I don't think that somebody bursting into your trailer while you're butt naked, telling you you need to lose weight. I mean, Bethany, when I'm working my rear end off trying to prosecute a case or trying to investigate a case now,

it would, hell would freeze over before somebody came up to me and showed me pornography or talked about coworkers' genitals. I'm like, what are you doing, man? There would, uh-uh? That's the claims here. Totally inappropriate. Does somebody walk up to you and show you pornography in the middle of your work day? No. But when we think of sexual abuse and sexual harassment, trying to entice the victim to be stimulated sexually, it's a part of the offending pattern,

which is a word I use a lot on this show. So Shonen pornography is in the hopes that he allegedly could excite her, develop a relationship with her. That's what we call predation, Nancy. It's being a predator. What are you saying? Are you saying that he who denies all of this and has filed his own multimillion dollar lawsuit that he would show her porn for what reason? To excite her? The woman is breastfeeding in her trailer. I doubt she's going to get excited by a co-star showing her porn on his cell phone. I just want to say about sex addicts, and I'm not saying he is one. I've never met him. But the sex addicts notoriously have a very poor theory about what's going on in the minds of other people. They do not track with the thoughts of others. Often they're so preoccupied and distracted with their own thoughts of sex, they don't track with others,

so they do very inappropriate things that are very offensive. As the rumor mill begins turning out news stories daily about the feud between Justin Baldoni and Blake Lively, often discussing the merits of different rumors, Baldoni hires Melissa Nathan. She's a crisis management PR pro known for her work with Johnny Depp in his battle with Amber Heard. During the Depp-Heard court battle, rumors arose of an organized social media campaign against Amber Heard. Days after Nathan joined his team Balboni, Blake Lively faces attacks online accusing her of being tone deaf with regard to her approach to marketing the movie. Wow. What a coinky dink. In my world of criminal law, there is no such thing as a coincidence. Straight to high profile PR guru, Rob Shooter,

host of Naughty But Nice podcast, author of The Forward Answer. Rob, let me understand this. So days after this person, Melissa Nathan, a PR person, public relations person joins Justin Baldoni's team. Suddenly Blake Lively faces attacks online, accusing her of being, quote, tone deaf. The trashing begins. That's quite the coincidence, isn't it, Shooter? Yeah, it's no coincidence at all here. You hire these PR pitbulls to plant bad stories about your competitors, people that you don't like, people that can make you look better. So this is an old story in PR.

This is not new. It's now being out there for, I think, the first time in a long time, really front and center. But this is not new. And let's remember, too, Blake has her own PR machine and they're claiming that Justin's claiming that they attacked him. So this is just the trick of publicists. This is why you hire a very expensive publicist. You went way beyond the scope of my question, but I appreciate that. So immediately after Baldoni hires Melissa Nathan, stories emerge throughout the press. And I remember reading some of them thinking, wow, I never picked up on that about Blake Lively, but what do I know? Maybe it's true. But then take a look at what is alleged about her. For instance, here's a so-called mean girl moment by Blake Lively. So if someone

understands the themes of this movie and they want to really talk to you, what's the best way for them to be able to talk to you about this? How would you recommend they go about it? Like asking for like my address or my phone number or like my location share. I could just location share you and then we could. That's from Jake's take on YouTube. Now, did you see what I just saw? Because I took it to be that she was joking around, kidding. You know what?

Let's watch it one more time because I'm not getting any sense of bad girl here. So if someone understands the themes of this movie and they want to really talk to you, what's the best way for them to be able to talk to you about this? How would you recommend they go about it? Like asking for like my address or my phone number or like my location share. I could just location share you and then we could. That's the bombshell that makes Blake Lively a mean girl. That's again from Jake's take on YouTube. Joining me right now, in addition to Rob Shooter, Dr. Bethany Marshall and Daryl Cohen, celebrity lawyer Lynn Shaw is with me. Founded executive director Lynn's Warriors, who has shot to fame in her opposition

to all things dirty ditty. Her other life that you don't see on camera, she created Lynn's Warriors that is committed to ending exploitation of women and sex trafficking in any form. You know, Lynn Shaw, I usually have you join us when we are talking about sex crimes on girls or women or men. The exploitation of women is a very nuanced thing. It comes in many, many forms. Like for instance, a woman is shamed because she gains weight after having a baby. You know what? The twins are 17. I just went on a diet. Okay. Women are shamed because they have strong opinions. They're put in a position of power and authority. Yet when they exercise power and authority to complete their job, then they're shamed. They're evil. They're bitches. They're divas. In my mind, that is exploiting women. You put them up on a pedestal only to

tear them down. Nancy, you're absolutely right. But we at the Warriors are based on facts. Obviously, Nancy, you have not been a fan of the sisterhood of the traveling pants, because I just want to mention one thing. It goes back to the 90s. A lot of stories behind the scenes about Blake Lively and her behavior. Now, that doesn't mean much. She was much younger then.

Let's fast forward. Here's what I want to say. This movie. Okay, hear me out, everybody. No, no, no, no, and her behavior. Now, that doesn't mean much. She was much younger then. Let's fast forward. Here's what I want to say. This movie. Okay, wow. Now, hear me out, everybody. No, no, no, no, no, no. No, you have to hear what I have to say. What behavior in the 90s was supposedly bad?

Oh, Nancy, please. There have been stories about her for decades where she was very mean to people. About what? People interviewing her. She was very snarky. Sorry, you're in show business. No, especially if you're a woman. She was very mean to people interviewing her. She was very snarky. Sorry, if you're in show business. No, especially if you're a woman.

Especially if you're a woman. We've got the double standards everybody knows about. Because I'm here to say it's still a man's world in Hollywood. That's the way it goes. It's a very tough thing. So her reputation has been questioned many times over the last few decades. The worst you can throw out there, Lynn Shaw, she was snarky and mean. Nancy Grace, she has been. I think I heard that back in high school. Oh, no, it was the fifth grade. OK, go ahead. She has been mean. She has been called herself a mean girl by other actresses.

OK, what? OK, she was, which I'm not buying into. So what? Even if she was, which I'm not buying into, so what? That's the worst you've got? I mean, I'm used to dealing with rapists, serial killers, child molesters, and you're telling me

she was mean when she was 21. Okay. I am fast forwarding now to some facts that this movie has grossed so far $351 million worldwide with a budget of $25 million. So a lot of these people here are making a lot of money. This is a real mudslinging case because we deal with real world, real people, real victims. Here's my big question I want to ask.

Why wasn't the intimacy coordinator from day one on that set? After going through the Me Too, the Harvey Weinstein, go back to Bill Cosby, Kevin Spacey, we'd be here all day if I keep naming the men in Hollywood. Why wasn't, he has proof, Justin Baldoni. He wanted that coordinator on the set. She would not meet with the coordinator. Everybody's got to get these facts straight.

She said, you know what, Justin, you meet, and he has this in text messages, you meet and when i arrive on the set you can tell me translate that information directly to me so how do we know that in his talking to her and translating these sexual scenes and this intimacy that now she's going back and i remind everybody she also the new york times did not do their job. They took her side, her story. They didn't contact him. They didn't question him.

I think that's unfair. He was released from his agent, WME, William Morrison Dever, the same agent as Blake Lively and her husband, Ryan Reynolds. Why was he, you know, you're innocent until proven guilty. So I want to go back on something. If she's pulling something. I hardly think that a talent agency dropping you equals a guilty verdict. But hold on. I want to address what you said.

I want facts. We have to get the facts here. Even if that's true, I'm trying to determine if this smear on her was orchestrated by hitch people of Justin Baldoni's because I've read those texts about quote burying her. Um, here is another example of Blake Lively being a so-called mean girl. Watch.

First of all, congrats on your little bump congrats on your little bump what about my bum by the way that's from shusty flaws youtube page okay what did i miss rob sheeter what was wrong with what blake lively just just said yeah i don't think there was anything wrong in that specific answer however nancy you're not gonna like this. Blake has a history of being difficult to interview. I know lots of reporters, including myself. I don't look forward to talking to Blake Lively on the carpet. Does that make her a terrible person?

No, but in this business, in this town, in Hollywood, you're meant to sell your movies, and part of that is selling yourself as well. And Blake won't play that game. If that's what she decides, good for her. But she doesn't, she doesn't play that game. If that's what she decides, good for her. But she doesn't. She doesn't play the Hollywood game. And maybe that's the point here.

Maybe that's what people are so annoyed. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Other requirements that are mentioned in the lawsuit include no more adding of sex scenes, oral sex, or on-camera climaxing by BL outside the scope of the script. BL approved when signing onto the project. Sony Pictures, the distributor of the film, approved Blake Lively's list. Joining me, in addition to our all-star panel you've already met, Ashley Wardlaw is joining us, PI, Chief Operations Officer at Nathan's Investigation. Ashley, thanks for being with us. This is when you need a great detective or investigator like yourself, because

what is the truth? Now, we've got a lot of damningning or what we believe to be damning text messages that were back and forth, back and forth, back and forth on Justin Baldoni's team claiming to bury, bury Blake Lively. And they follow online. Oh, there's so much negative reporting on her. It's awesome. You know, we can bury anyone, but I can't put that in writing for Pete's sake. Imagine if a document saying all that ends up in the wrong hands. We can't actually write. We will destroy her, by the way, as they writing. I'm having reckless thoughts of wanting to plant pieces this week of how horrible Blake is to work with. But my question to you

is how do you go about proving this, Ashley? Where do I get the information? I guess I would start with this 30 point document that emerged from the meeting where Lively brings her husband Reynolds and they have it out with Baldoni about what will and will not be tolerated on set. That's a great place to start. Or why are crew members unfollowing or not following Baldoni and they are following her? Where would you start? Well, let's be clear, Nancy. The evidence is definitely going to speak for itself, okay? When it comes to text messages or any digital type of evidence, nowadays it's really hard to believe what you see, like a screenshot or, you know, something along those lines.

For a PI, we would have to take it a little farther and say, OK, we're not going to take these screenshots. We're actually going to do something called a data extraction where we take a mobile device or a laptop or whatever type of electronic device and actually pull the files directly from that device along with metadata to look at the time and date stamps. Because, again, screenshots can be manipulated. That's just the reality we live in nowadays. So again, a PI, we're going to have to take it a step further. We can't just take a screenshot and give it to an attorney and say, hey, this is what we have for you. We have to go further. You know what? You're so right, Ashley. Ashley Wardlaw joining us, a veteran private investigator. I would go to everybody that worked on that set with a subpoena and a subpoena ducus tecum for documents, or as you're saying, text messages, emails

that may have gone back and forth regarding what was happening on the set. And I'd like to point out to Rob Sheeter and Lynn Shaw, I want you to hear this. It sounds like what you were saying about Blake Lively not wanting an intimacy coordinator on the set is just another plant against her because I've got the document, what purports to be the document that she submitted her demands. And number 18 of that 30 point list is an intimacy coordinator must be on set for all scenes involving nudity and or simulated sex and must have a monitor to ensure compliance. So this is Blake Lively's request. Rob Shooter, let's go through this 30 point request. What do you make? No spontaneous improvising. In other words, don't bite my

lip and suck on it during kissing scenes. Physical touching must only be done in connection with the character and scene work. No discussion with lively of personal experiences with sex or nudity. What? I mean, Rob Shooter, I had the same investigator for 11 years. Okay. We did everything together. We only ever had one fight over OJ Simpson for Pete's sake. That said, I could, I would think somebody had killed him and was wearing his skin if he made a sex comment or tried to show me porn. He just wouldn't even think to do that. And she has to put this in a document. Don't show me any more porn, please.

Don't talk about genitalia or your sex life. She had to put that in writing. Yeah, yeah. It sounds awful, doesn't it? And when I've looked over this document many many times it's pretty standard when you when you sign up a big star often celebrities that are not that famous don't have this much power but blake certainly does they can have clauses in their contracts no nudity no shots from behind what's interesting about this to me is that the music the, the music business, it's a messy business.

And you and me, Nancy, in our jobs, we are not having sex on camera. They are. And so because the job is so unusual, the job is so intimate, being an actor is such an odd profession that these conversations need to be had. I think where he let her down is not just as an actor. He was the producer. It was his job to have a safe set. And if she insisted on all these details as a producer, if he agreed to that, which he did, then she had every right to have all her demands met.

So I think she's got quite a strong case against him here as somebody who was really not just the star of the movie. He also was the producer. It's his movie. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Justin Baldoni, working with his crisis management PR specialist, Melissa Nathan, sent examples of a viral social media thread accusing another celebrity of bullying, writing, this is what we would need. According to the New York Times report, Nathan soon floated proposals

to hire contractors to dominate social media through full social account takedowns by starting threads of theories and generally working to change narrative. All of this would be most importantly untraceable, she wrote. Wow. OK, decipher that. I'm only used to Latin phrases and lawyers throwing around legal terms to Rob Sheeter. What are they saying? They're saying that he hired a PR team to trash Blake Lively. And I think that is going to be hard to prove not true. Shortly after this PR team was hired, lots of stories started to pop up that were really unflattering about Blake. Now, I've been doing this a long time, Nancy. I would argue that 80, 90 percent of the calls that I get are publicists trying to spread a rumor or something, something mean.

And I think that this looks like it's pretty clear here. Shortly after his PR expert started, we started to see really tough stories about her. I've got to say, though, Nancy, this is awful, but it's not unusual. Oh, OK. And I thought the law was a pigsty. OK, this was a big mistake as well. I find it really interesting. Let me go out to Ashley Wardlaw, private investigator, chief operation officer, Nathan's investigations. Ashley, I was wondering, how did they get a hold of these alleged texts?

OK, how did they get Baldoni's texts? How did they get his PR team's texts? Well, as it turns out, and correct me if I'm wrong, everybody on the panel, someone on either quit or got fired and made those texts available to Blake Lively's camp. That's where the text came from. No need for a subpoena. Talk about a smoking gun. This is a bullet for Pete's sake, Ashley. Yes, yes.

Text messages could be detrimental to a case. I would say you're right. Those messages would have had to be leaked, especially if they weren't presented in court or, you know, a subpoena was an issue already. Again, you can't believe a screenshot. So someone may have sent this over and said, hey, here's what I have for you guys to use. But the only way to reduce those text messages is to really do a data extraction and show the entire thread of text messages, not just from one end, but everything in full. Okay. Daryl Cohen, celebrity lawyer. Daryl, this is a yes, no answer. Okay. You're on cross right now. Don't try to explain. We know about attorney, client privilege. We know priest, parishioner.

We know husband, wife. There is no PR guru client privilege. If you say things to your PR person or your media team, they can state that in court. And here's a hard learned lesson. Remember when Monica Lewinsky's mother, I believe it was, had to testify in front of a grand jury? There's no mom-daughter privilege, much less a PR guru client privilege. So, you know, all bets are off. This PR person could hand over these texts to anybody that answered.

She's under no duty of confidentiality unless they signed one. Unless she has a non-disclosure, she's not under a duty. But what must happen is it must happen in context. Yes, these are available. Yes, they can be used, but they can also be abused. Don't get mad. Get even. Make sure that the publicist is well coached and knows how to explain what happened and why, if it ever gets there. Oh, wait. Hey, Daryl, look at your screen. I don't like this. Ew. She was off promoting it as if it was Barbie. It's just based on things that she said directly. Whoa. Look at what they're saying about her. Of course, that's not a crime. But if she can show this damaged her business and her credibility and her reputation.

Yeah, they're up the proverbial creek without a paddle. Of course, Baldoni and his team claim none of this is true and it's been taken out of context. Well, we'll see because there are two multimillion dollar lawsuits brewing. Now, this was a bad move. And apparently there is a digital footprint of this, a trail, so to speak. They dragged in Taylor Swift. Uh oh. Taylor Swift is mentioned in the lawsuit twice, namely in a scenario planning document that was written by Baldoni's PR team at Tag PR, headed up by Melissa Nathan. In the document, a discussion of ways to possibly target Lively in the press in a negative manner is explored. The scenario planning document states that Tag could also explore planting stories about

the weaponization of feminism and how people in Lively's circle, like Taylor Swift, have been accused of utilizing these tactics to bully into getting what they want. Taylor Swift is mentioned a second time in an alleged message from Melissa Nathan to Jennifer Abel, a public relations executive. In the message, Nathan talks about Blake Lively's fan base while talking about a potential social media plan that would help suppress negative content about Baldoni and amplify negative content about Lively. Nathan notes that because Lively and Swift are close friends, the actress has the support of Swift's fans. Nathan points out that Lively does have

some of the Swift fan base, so we will be taking it extremely seriously. To high profile psychoanalysts joining us out of Beverly Hills, Dr. Bethany Marshall, you see what's happening here. So if it's true and Baldoni says it's not, a takedown on Blake Lively was happening and they wrote in another famous woman, Taylor Swift, to make her seem like she bullies people to get what she wants. I mean, you see the common thread here. Two beautiful, successful and powerful women are being dragged down because they're, quote, mean. Who cares? You know, Nancy, if we were covering a rape case, would we say the woman deserved to be raped because she wore a short skirt or she was in the wrong part of town or we didn't like her personality? No. A rape is a rape.

This is such a common pattern in Hollywood. Think about Harvey Weinstein. What happened when he harassed women and they stood up to him? Do I have to? He spanked their careers. P. Diddy, which we've been covering, it's been all over the news. What was a part of his offending pattern? If a woman or a man stood up to him, he would harass, he would stalk, he would try to take

down their reputation. So this pattern is so common. I urge everybody to see it. In terms of whether or not Blake Lively is mean, it has nothing to do with it. The viewer should ask themselves if they wrote like a bad email at work, does their boss deserve to harass them for it? I mean, it's just like a huge logic flaw. And we also know, Nancy, there are no pure victims. There aren't because there are no pure people. All of us do things. You know what I don't get, Dr. Bethany? If your coworker comes to you and says, hey, this thing you're doing bothers me, will you not do it? I mean, with all the money riding on this movie, I don't understand why he wouldn't just say, if this is all true,

by the way, you know what? I'm sorry I did that. I screwed up. I'm not doing that anymore. I'm really sorry. Instead of now we've got all these multimillion dollar lawsuits playing out to Lynn Shaw joining me, founder, executive director, Lynn's Warriors, dedicated to ending human trafficking and protecting specifically women and girls. What do you make of it? Now that you know, in her 30 point doc, she demanded an intimacy coordinator on the set.

Nancy, she demanded it, but she did not meet with the intimacy coordinator. So that's something everybody should be looking at. Why didn't she meet? Again, she said to Justin, you go go ahead i'll meet the coordinator when i get to the set you get all the information let's you let you let me discuss it but here's what i want to say so i that that that's really bothering me and i'll tell you why i wish we could flip this around this movie was about domestic violence a woman's relationship a woman's worth a woman owning a business a a young woman.

You know why? I wish in this movie they focused on doing some good for domestic violence victims, you know, put putting that out there. Now, what do we have? We have this big I don't know what to call this whole thing. My focus is on the real victims, the real victims in real life that we never talk about, that we're not helping. You know what, Lynn Shaw, I'm glad you said that. For nine years of the 10 plus years I prosecuted at night, I volunteered, as you know, at the Battered Women's Center. And it was excruciating to hear what domestic violence the victims go through. By the time I got them in court, they were either dead or they were maimed, like a broken hip or a broken leg or a broken collarbone as part of an aggravated battery from domestic assault. You're absolutely

right. I want to make it clear that Baldoni's reps have denied all of these claims. And they're thinking to Daryl Cohen, and what they're saying is that this lawsuit and everything Lively is doing now is her attempt to rehabilitate her reputation. After it came out, she was a, quote, mean girl. I completely believe that that is the case. But also, Nancy, it's about the box. It's about box office. It's about ticket sales, not just locally, not nationally, but internationally. And the more publicity, the more press, the more lawsuits that are involved, the more tickets that are sold. And it makes it much easier for her next role and the

role after that because there's always a place for mean girls and good girls and bad girls and bad guys that's just the way Hollywood works it always has and likely always will what is the truth there are dueling lawsuits. We won't know until this finally goes to court and we wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.