Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Sneak Peek into freaky world of pedo-perv billionaire Jeff Epstein. ("Epstein: Dead Men Tell No Tales" PART 1)

Episode Date: December 18, 2019

Billionaire financier Jeffrey Epstein reportedly led a secret, perverted life. On surface, Epstein was a successful businessman who threw lavish parties for celebrities and prominent, influential people. Behind the scenes, Epstein was the mastermind of an international child sex ring. Joining Nancy to discuss: Dylan Howard: Author of "Epstein: Dead Men Tell No Tales" Melissa Cronin: Investigative Journalist and Author James Robertson: Investigative Journalist who broke story on Epstein's suicide attempt, Editor-in-Chief at US Weekly Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. There's really no nice way to say, to describe the acts attributed to Epstein. But right now I've got it here in my hand, a book by the renowned Dylan Howard. You may know him from the National Enquirer. And if you don't read it or never have, you've probably wanted to because you can't check out at any grocery without seeing the headlines that scream out at you and say everything you're thinking on the inside. Also, with Melissa Cronin and James Robertson.

Let me tell you who they are. James Robertson, investigative journalist, editor-in-chief, U.S. Weekly, who broke the story of Jeffrey Epstein's first prison suicide attempt and what a story that was. And Melissa Cronin, investigative journalist and author, Epstein. His name will now live in infamy, Jeffrey Epstein. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. It kind of worked like a pyramid scheme. Ghislaine brought me in. I brought other girls in.. I brought other girls in.

Those girls brought other girls in. And no matter what, Jeffrey constantly had that open, revolving door of young women, young teenagers, children, I like to call them, coming through his door for one purpose and one purpose alone. And he didn't care what he had to do to get that reaction from them, to get them to have sex with him or get them to, I mean, sometimes he would just f*** off in front of them and rub his nipples. Sometimes he would have intercourse with them. Sometimes he'd make them, you know, give them f***. Ghislaine participated in these acts with him as well.

You know, and that was just the never-ending cycle. That was every single day. Her words, not mine. Dylan Howard, Chief Content Officer and VP of American Media Inc. You were just hearing our friends at the Miami Herald interviewing the alleged Epstein victim who cracked the case wide open, Virginia Roberts Jeffrey. But first, Dylan Howard, you have explosive claims in your new book, Dead Men Tell No Tales. That's a heck of a title.

But I just had to kick the whole thing off with Virginia talking about underage sex. I mean, I don't know if the BBC was ready for that when that crossed the airways, but the Miami Herald didn't seem to have a problem with it, Dylan. They didn't. And what we've learned over the last seven or eight days is that Prince Andrew's account of his interactions with that young woman seemingly are very inconsistent with her memories, and she has receipts to back up her allegations. But what is far more disturbing is we have already established that Jeffrey Epstein was one of the most horrifying villains that the modern world will ever know, a shameless pedophile who built this network of child sex... Now, wait a minute, Dylan. Dylan, hold on just a moment. Coming from the mouth of the VP of Honcho at the Enquirer, for you to tell me that, and you know, my dear friend was

Mike Walker for years and years and years. Yeah, yeah. For you to say this is one of the worst villains out of all the villains you've covered, that's saying something, Dylan Howard. I mean, you guys have covered it all, bar none. I just had to interrupt rudely right there. Go ahead, Dylan. Well, I say that in the context of the fact that he was a gentleman who no one really knew the secrets behind his half a billion dollar worth. We know that he was complex and controlling, calculating and predatory. But what we didn't know is what we've uncovered in Epstein's Dead Men Tell No Tales. And the conclusion is clear. Take aside, and I don't want to minimize in any way the victims

that were subjected to the heinous crimes that Jeffrey Epstein orchestrated. But the conclusion is clear from the research that we have done. Jeffrey Epstein was a spy who was running a complex, intelligent operation for the purpose of blackmailing the powerful, rich and famous politicians and individuals in the United States abroad. And the question obviously then becomes, for whom? Who was he working for? Well, we've been able to establish that his puzzling billion-dollar fortune and circle of famous friends, all are connected to three major international countries,

Saudi Arabia, Russia, and foremost, Israel. In fact, Ghislaine Maxwell, she is the woman who was Epstein's ex-girlfriend and alleged procurer of these young girls. Her father, Bob Maxwell, was a media tycoon in Britain who owned the British Mirror newspaper and I believe at one point owned the New York Daily News. He too was a Mossad spy for Israeli intelligence. And our investigation in Epstein, Dead Men Tell No Tales, speaks with his spy handler who says that Israel bequeathed the

business, if you like, and Epstein inherited the spy operations of Bob Maxwell with Ghislaine Maxwell. Dylan, Dylan, Dylan, Dylan, I'm drinking from the fire hydrant here. That's just too much to take in in one sentence. Was that a sentence? That was a lot, but I know this. You're telling me the three countries that seemingly are connected to the billions of dollars, we believe, in the Epstein estate are Russia, Israel, and Saudi Arabia. Epstein allegedly, quote, finding a niche, blackmailing American and other political figures. Dylan, as much as I can listen to you 24-7, 365, Melissa Cronin, investigative journalist and author,

I'm sorry, James Robertson, beauty before age this time. Melissa, you've been working on this five years, five years of your life. You're hearing Dylan Howard, author of Dead Men Tell, No Tales. It's out now. And I've actually been walking around with it, trying to get to the end of it as quickly as I could, because it's almost too fantastical to believe. You know, Melissa, it's a real honor to have you and James both with me today. Melissa, we've been hearing Prince Andrew prattle on in the most off-putting interview, one of the most

off-putting interviews I've ever seen. Listen. The other aspect of this is that I live in an institution at Buckingham Palace which has members of staff walking around all the time. And I don't wish to appear grand, but there were a lot of people who were walking around Geoffrey Epstein's house.wybod, roedd nhw'n staff, roedd nhw'n bobl sy'n gweithio arno, yn gwneud pethau. Roeddwn i'n cydweithio â nhw, os oes gennych chi ddiddordeb i ddweud diwrnod da, diwrnod da. Ond dydw i ddim, os ydych chi'n gweld beth rwy'n ei olygu, yn cydweithio â nhw mewn ffordd, ydych chi'n gwneud beth ydych chi'n ei wneud yma, pam ydych chi yma, beth sy'n digwydd? Ond byddwch chi'n gweld os oedd gennych chi llwyr o ddynion o ddiweddau yn Buckingham Palace, fydd you here, what's going on? But you'd notice if there were hundreds of underage girls in Buckingham Palace, wouldn't you? But sorry, you would notice if there were hundreds of underage girls in Geoffrey's house.

Wasn't there. Not when I was there. Now, he may have changed his behaviour patterns in order for that not to be obvious to me. So I don't know. I mean, you're asking me to speculate on things that I just don't know about. Okay, you're hearing Prince Andrew giving a voluntary interview to our friend at BBC, Emily Maitlis. But he's just on the outside. He is a planet

circling Epstein's son, along with many, many other powerful and wealthy men. But you've been doing this five years. People think spies are like James Bond. They don't get spies. Typically, they're just regular people passing information. Because when I first heard Dylan Howard's theory that Epstein, that devil, he is a devil straight from hell, was with the Mossad, was actually a spy, I mean, I would never credit him with that much character and intelligence, but that's very simply not true. Spies are not like in the movies. Melissa, you devoted five years of your investigative life to this. What have you learned? Nancy, that's a really great point. Having covered this case since 2014 with Dylan,

when I first heard the theories that Epstein could have been a spy, I was definitely skeptical. But as we continue to dig into this and through all of our resources at this, like never before, the evidence that we found was really just undeniable. Prince Andrew is just one example of someone very high profile connected to this case who has been hiding lots of secrets. So for the very first time, for example, we sent reporters out to Jeffrey Epstein's ranch in New Mexico. And talking to former employees out there, we found that Prince Andrew actually visited that ranch in 2001 with a young woman who had been provided by Epstein. Now, this was one incident that no one else ever had. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Melissa, Melissa, Melissa Cronin with me, investigative journalist and author,

James Robertson, editor-in-chief, U.S. Weekly, Dylan Howard, chief Content Officer, VP, American Media. Melissa, hold on. Whoa, whoa. What did you just say about a ranch? Because most of what we've learned about Prince Andrew is about him after Epstein's child assault conviction, he felt he had to go to Manhattan and hole up in Epstein's mansion for days in order to, quote, break up. It was a bro breakup. Really? That that's that. As a matter of fact, take a to andrew with the bbc our friend emily

mateless he was released in july within months by december of 2010 you went to stay with him at his new york mansion why why were you staying with a convicted sex offender right i have always uh ever since this has happened and since this has become, as it were, public knowledge that I was there, I've questioned myself as to why did I go, what was I doing and was it the right thing to do? Now, I went there with the sole purpose of saying to him that because he had been convicted, it was inappropriate for us to be seen together. And I had a number of people counsel me in both directions, either to go and see him or not to go and see him. and I took the judgment call that because this was serious

and I felt that doing it over the telephone was the chicken's way of doing it. I had to go and see him and talk to him. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. He was released in July. Within months, by December of 2010, you went to stay with him at his New York mansion. Why? Why were you staying with a convicted sex offender? Right. I have always, ever since this has happened, and since this has become, as it were, public knowledge that I was there, I've questioned myself as to why did I go, what was I doing, and was it the right thing to do? Now, I went there with the sole purpose

of saying to him that because he had been convicted, it was inappropriate for us to be seen together. And I had a number of people counsel me in both directions, either to go and see him or not to go and see him. And I took the judgment call that because this was serious and I felt that doing it over the telephone was the chicken's way of doing it. I had to go and see him and talk to him. Okay, I do not believe that for one minute when he's saying, I questioned what I was doing there. I think we all know what he was doing there. Because stakeouts out in front of the Manhattan home of Epstein, show all these girls going in and out. Of course, Andrew later explained he thought they were servants.

Okay, I'm not even going to go there because I'm more concerned about what you guys are saying in your brand-new book, Dead Men, Tell No Tales. Dylan Howard, Melissa Cronin, James Robertson with me. Melissa, what were you saying? I was just saying that, you know, what Prince Andrew has admitted to really just defies belief. You know, he said that he had to stay with Epstein in New York because it was a convenient place to stay, as if there weren't hundreds of luxury hotels, you know, just feet away from his apartment in Manhattan. The incident that we discovered is something that he had never admitted to before.

This 2001 visit to the Santa Fe Ranch with a young woman, we spoke to staffers there who waited on him and said that the young woman had told them that she had been tasked with entertaining Andrew. She even asked one of the employees to serve him a tea that would, quote, make him more horny because he didn't seem like he was that interested in her, and she was worried about what Epstein would think. Melissa, I'm a firm believer in no dead air. No dead air, ever. But I just had to pause right there.

You wanted to make Prince Andrew more horny than he already is? You're talking about Randy Andy, right? You're telling me that this was out in a ranch here in the U.S. Because we've only heard of a few visits Andrew, Prince Andrew, has made to Epstein. Sounds like there's a lot more that are trickling out now. Take a listen to our friend at BBC, Emily Maitlis. Epstein's housekeeper, also in a Florida court legal deposition, said that you visited the Palm Beach residence around four times a year. You got a daily massage.

Four times a year? That was what he four times a year that was what he said in a florida court legal deposition no i'm just wondering when you look back now is there a chance that those massages might have been the services of someone who was being sexually by Epstein? No I don't think I mean I know definitely not definitely not and I definitely did not visit his Palm Beach house three or four times a year absolutely not. How many times would you say you visited? In total, probably four times in total throughout the time that I knew him. Okay, you're hearing Prince Andrew. You know what? I get it. I want you to take a listen to not only Prince Andrew, but his accuser, the then-teen girl, Virginia Roberts Jeffrey. I want to start by saying it's not how Jeffrey died, but it's how he lived.

And we need to get to the bottom of everybody who was involved with that, starting with Ghislaine Maxwell and going along the lines there. I was recruited at a very young age from Mar-a-Lago and entrapped in a world that I didn't understand and I've been fighting that very world to this day and I won't stop fighting. I will never be silenced until these people are brought to justice. So thank you all very much. Appreciate it. What do you make of Prince Andrew's denial? Did you comment on that? You said you won't be silenced? He has been outspoken.

He knows what he's done, and he can attest to that. Can you repeat that? We can hear you. He knows exactly what he's done, and I hope he comes clean about it. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The autopsy shows multiple broken bones in his neck, including the hyoid bone near Epstein's Adam's apple. That break can occur in hangings, but is more common in those who die of strangulation. Remember, the New York Post reports Epstein killed himself by tying a bed sheet around his neck to his jail cell bunk bed and then strangling

himself by kneeling toward the floor. Hanging many times occurs in a prone position. You just simply need to get something around your neck, tie it to the bottom bunk and just slowly slide off the bunk until you slowly pass out. You can be dead within 10 minutes. You are listening to our friends at Fox. For those of you that believe the theory that Jeffrey Epstein now dead, and I'm just going to put it out there, guys. I know I speak very plainly, very homespun, the way that I grew up. But I know this after investigating and prosecuting literally thousands of homicides, it's very difficult to break your own hyoid bone, your own neck bones, when you hang yourself with a sheet or cloth material at a very low height, such as from your bed.

I'm not buying the theory about Epstein's suicide. I'm not saying it's absolutely not possible, but I find that shrouded in mystery as well. The fact that Dylan Howard, Melissa Cronin, and James Robertson are espousing the theory that Epstein was in fact a spy, most important for Mossad, garnering billions of dollars potentially from Saudi Arabia, Israel, and Russia. Yeah, I guess he did end up dead, James Robertson. James Robertson, editor-in-chief of U.S. Weekly, who broke the story of Epstein's first prison suicide attempt.

James, where do you weigh in on Howard and Cronin's theory? Well, when it came to the theory of Epstein's relationship with Mossad and the handlers, we found the man himself, who's a mysterious Iranian-born businessman who claims to have worked for Mossad from 1977 to 1987. And this was a man who was arrested in the United States. Now, wait a minute, James. I'm not really in any position

to interrupt the editor-in-chief of the U.S. Weekly. But, James, you do know what you just said sounds like the title of a novel. A mysterious, what did you say? It just struck me. It almost sounds, it sounds unbelievable. But you have a history of intensely investigating your stories. You're an investigative journalist, for Pete's sake. And you believe this, right? Absolutely.

I believe this is not just a conspiracy theory. The man was a former high-ranking official in military intelligence. And to your point, when you say that these men, when the spies aren't always the James Bonds who are geniuses who can leap from one building to another, he actually described Epstein as, quote, a very simple idiot. And that was very telling that he was only manipulated as well by these handlers who used Epstein to acquire the materials that they would be able to use to blackmail politicians, businessmen. And really, Epstein became a puppet. He wasn't considered to be a smart or controlling character, but really just someone that they could control. Nancy, connect the dots here.

We're talking about Ari Ben Mishani, the former Israeli spy and alleged handler of Ghislaine Maxwell's dad, Robert Maxwell. Okay, slow down, Dylan, slow down, slow down. So you're saying Ari Ben Mishani, Benashi, that you refer to in your book as being an Israeli spy, an alleged handler. Let me understand. You want me to connect the dots. The first thing to me that just made perfect sense, Dylan, is something James Robertson just said.

Well, he makes a lot more sense than I do. Manipulating. Manipulating that Epstein, not that smart, and I believe it, but manipulating him to spin a web around the rich and powerful in order to use them. Okay, I'm understanding. So you've got Ari Ben Mishani, who was the handler for Robert Maxwell, Ghislaine Maxwell's dad. He turns up dead after a falling out with Mossad.

That's Robert Maxwell. Epstein and Ghislaine were already dating in the late 1980s when Ari Ben Mishani, the handler of Robert Maxwell, was introduced to Jeffrey Epstein. The suggestion being that Epstein, who had worked as an international bounty hunter and boasted about recovering millions and millions, if not billions of dollars for international arms traders. All of a sudden, he inherits this business. Now, Melissa and I have seen hundreds of photos inside the New York mansion that Jeffrey Epstein had on the Upper East Side. Three consecutive townhouses, the largest estate in New York City. We're viewed every room and a photograph of every room. I think we're the only ones in the world to have ever done so. There is a camera in every single room.

They all feed into one central operating unit. Next to that is a study business, have high-powered professional Xerox machines fed from a video room into his home? We believe that he was recording every interaction, every person that stepped foot inside that home. Dylan Howard with me, Chief Content Officer, VP American Media, Melissa Cronin, investigative journalist and author, James Robertson, investigative journalist, editor-in-chief, U.S. Weekly, with a theory that at first sounded so far-fetched, but when you look at the evidence, it's not far-fetched but when you look at the evidence is not far fetched at all and think of the circles in which Epstein rotated photos of him

with Trump with Clinton with Prince Andrew those are the ones that we know of. The big question to you, James Robertson, if Dylan Howard's theory is true, with all those cameras, and cameras are not far-fetched. I've got a nanny cam trained in almost every room where we live. Every one, which I've had since the twins were born i hardly ever look at it but it's there i could look at it if i wanted to i could play it back up it was not hard to do but what i'm saying is james robertson if that footage existed and he was hosting all of these wealthy and prominent people,

and I'm not saying it's Trump, I'm not saying it's Clinton, I'm not saying it's Andrew. You know he was spying on them and rolling on the men that came there to be with these young girls. So where's the video, James? Because it wasn't found. No DVDs, nothing. It's got to be somewhere. You know he was recording video, James? Because it wasn't found. No DVDs, nothing. It's got to be somewhere. You know he was recording everything, James. Yes, and I think what we do know is he was recording in every property.

That includes Palm Beach, his ranch in Santa Fe, and, of course, the townhouse in New York. We did find a former U.S. Marine. Wait, didn't you leave out Orgy Island? Of course. Of course I did. Okay, wait, wait. Not be it for me of crime stories to correct James Robertson

of the editor-in-chief of U.S. Weekly, but that name just kind of stuck in my head, Orgy Island. So you've got the island that he owns. You have the Santa Fe Ranch. You have the Manhattan Town Home on the east side.

And the mansion in Florida. Have I missed anything, James? And there's also another townhouse in Paris. See, I actually didn't think you were going to add anything. But yes, there's one in Paris. And you know they were tricked out like candid camera. You know that.

So where's the video? The only thing I can think of when cops race in, both in Florida and in Manhattan, to gather evidence, the evidence isn't there. So either it's already stored somewhere else or Epstein was tipped off that they were coming. Now, who would do such a thing as that, James Robertson? So we found a whistleblower who fled America and was granted political asylum in Russia. He is a U.S. Marine and former Palm Beach County Sheriff. His name is Mr. John Dugan. Now, I spoke to John in Moscow by telephone, who told me that he believed

that someone on the inside had tipped off Epstein prior to the initial raid on his Palm Beach home. Now, someone has copies. He claims to have them himself. His computer was seized by the FBI in 2016 prior to him fleeing to Russia. He says there are thousands and thousands of DVDs, and he has separated them in safety deposit boxes around the globe as a protection and life insurance should anything happen to him. He insists that these are blackmail tapes and that this is exactly what Jeffrey Epstein and those around him do not want the world to know exist. crime stories with nancy grace maria farmer was a promising young artist when she says she met epstein and maxwell

at an art show in new york city in 1995-year-old soon found herself working the front desk in his palatial New York City townhouse. Did you see young women coming into the house? Yes, I saw many, many, many, many, many. All day long? All day long. I saw Ghislaine going to get the women. She went to places like Central Park.

I was with her a couple times in the car. She would say, stop the car! And she would dash out and get a child. What did she say she was doing when she did this? Getting Victoria's Secret models. Farmer found Epstein's behavior mysterious. One day I said to Jeffrey, what goes on in this house? Why are you always upstairs?

And he said, I'll show you. And so he took me up there in the elevator, and we went. He showed me all of Ghislaine's quarters. She had her own suite in the house. Oh, she had a whole floor. Ultimately, Farmer says, Epstein led her to his bathroom. And there was a marble, like, altar thing over here. And he said that's where he gets his massages. Epstein told her the whole house was wired with pinhole cameras and took her into the media room where they were monitored.

I looked on the cameras, and I saw toilet, toilet, bed, bed, toilet, bed. I'm like, I am never going to use the restroom here, and I'm never going to sleep here. Was there videotap? Oh, yeah, it was all video all the time, yeah. And I'm never going to sleep here. Was there video tape? Oh, yeah, it was all video all the time, yeah. And I asked him one time, what do you do with this? And he said, I keep it. I keep everything in my safe. You are listening to our friends at CBS This Morning.

I have so many questions, I hardly know where to start. This is why I had to write out all of my direct and cross-examination questions so I wouldn't miss anything. And at the end of every direct and cross-exam, I'd have to consult and make sure I hadn't left anything out. Melissa Cronin, that leads me to where is Maxwell, his female pimp, his glamour pimp? Where is she? So I've spoken to a source close to the family that believes she is actually being protected by the British government because of what she knows about Prince Andrew. Now, there was a report several weeks ago that her cell phone had pinged off the coast of Brazil. There were rumors that she might have been staying on a yacht there. there but what these inside sources told us is that that was a classic

misdirection technique one that is often actually used by the Mossad so all indications point to the fact that she is alive and well but that she is just in hiding being protected by the very people who don't want her secrets to come out you know Dylan Howard as brilliant as Melissa Cronin and James Robertson are, I got to go to you on this one because, you know, you're the king of this topic. Dylan Howard, how can someone with so screw the whole thing up with, for instance, underage sex or Andrew consorting with people like Maxwell or Epstein. You see it every day in your business, Dylan. Like, you know what, Dylan? I know I've got it good. I've got twins. I've got an awesome husband. I'm so blessed. I'm not going to do anything to screw it up. God help me.

Why? What is it with people with power and privilege that just defy their blessings? Well, there are two tiers of justice. We talk about it all the time. There's justice for you and I, and there's justice for the rich and powerful. And Jeffrey Epstein used his power to exploit the vulnerable and underage. There is absolutely unequivocal proof of that, all while covering his tracks and rubbing shoulders with the rich and famous. He thought he was invincible. He thought he could get away with it. And in many ways, he did get away with it until his untimely death as prisoner 76318054

at the Manhattan Correctional Facility Center. One thing I want to pick up on, we talked about those tapes, those blackmail tapes. Nancy, you and I covered Casey Anthony. Part of the compelling reason of that case was that every single piece of evidence under Floridian law was released publicly under what's called the Sunshine State law. All evidence is released. His Palm Beach home was raided by the FBI and raided by local law enforcement. Yet there is no evidence of these DVDs in the hands of U.S. law enforcement. And that smacks of a cover up. The book is Dead Men Tell No Tales. Join us tomorrow for more of our conversation with authors Dylan Howard, Melissa Cronin, and James Robertson on their new book, Epstein, Dead Men Tell No Tales. Tomorrow, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off.

Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.