Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Sneak Peek into freaky world of pedo-perv billionaire Jeff Epstein. ("Epstein: Dead Men Tell No Tales" PART 2)

Episode Date: December 19, 2019

Billionaire financier Jeffrey Epstein reportedly led a secret, perverted life. On surface, Epstein was a successful businessman who threw lavish parties for celebrities and prominent, influential people. Behind the scenes, Epstein was the mastermind of an international child sex ring.Joining Nancy to discuss: Dylan Howard: Author of "Epstein: Dead Men Tell No Tales" Melissa Cronin: Investigative Journalist and Author James Robertson: Investigative Journalist who broke story on Epstein's suicide attempt, Editor-in-Chief at US Weekly Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Jeffrey Epstein, a multi, multi-millionaire with connections as high up as Bill and Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, and a frequent visitor with Prince Andrew. It ain't over yet. When he was, quote, in jail down in Florida, he would get day passes and be out of the jail 12, 17 hours, and he would have a stream of young girls coming in and out of his, quote, office. And then amazingly, now that we're investigating it, that visitor's log has disappeared.

Funny how that works, right? But there's really no nice way to say, to describe the acts attributed to Epstein. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. And he arranged it so that he got work release, which meant that he had a valet, a driver that he hired, pick him up at the jail every day and essentially drive him to an office. The former U.S. attorney who approved the deal, Alexander Acosta, is now President Trump's Secretary of Labor and a possible pick for Attorney General. A Labor Department spokesperson tells NBC News that the U.S. Attorney's Office

defended the deal across three administrations and pointed out that Secretary Acosta was asked about the plea deal during his confirmation hearing last year. Professionals within a prosecutor's office decide that a plea that guarantees that someone goes to jail, that guarantees that someone register generally, and that guarantees other outcomes is a good thing. The former Palm Beach police chief disagrees. I think almost the entire system failed them. It ain't over yet. You know, we were just listening to our friend at NBC, Stephanie Goss, describing Palm Beach. Epstein, his name will now live in infamy, Jeffrey Epstein. But right now I've got it here in my hand, a book by the renowned Dylan Howard. You may know him from the National Enquirer.

And if you don't read it or never have, you've probably wanted to because you can't check out at any grocery without seeing the headlines that scream out at you and say everything you're thinking on the inside. Also, with Melissa Cronin and James Robertson, let me tell you who they are. James Robertson, investigative journalist, editor-in-chief, U.S. Weekly, who broke the story of Jeffrey Epstein's first prison suicide attempt, and Melissa Cronin, investigative journalist and author, Dylan, who in their right mind, and this goes all the way up, you know, to Acosta, would give a child predator a sweet deal where they could go in and out of

the jail. I'm talking about Epstein. To their, quote, office every day with a chauffeur. Stay behind closed doors for hours on end. I'm talking seven, eight, nine, 10 hours a day out of the jail on a felony conviction and young girls being trooped in and out and in and out of his quote offices. Whoever would allow that? I mean, how do I know they didn't seize DVDs at that home, at that mansion? Or were the DVDs already gone because Epstein had been tipped off? We know that he was warned. Remember he left the country and he came back and was arrested?

He knew he was going to be arrested. He knew that full well. Of course, I think I'm dumbing down this whole scenario. But think about it, Dylan. You've already got Maxwell. No. Yes, Robert Maxwell dead. You have Epstein dead. And now you're telling me that I believe you said a former Marine and Palm Beach County Deputy Sheriff John Mark Dugan?

That's correct. Is now in hiding. I guess he is. He's in Russia. He's in Russia and has been given asylum by Vladimir Putin. And Ghislaine Maxwell is also in hiding. How seriously, James Robertson, do you believe our government is taking your theory that you espouse in the new book, Dead Men Tell No Tales? And I got to tell you guys, I've read it. And at first I thought, what is Dylan Howard talking about? After I read it, it's very, very disturbing. James, what do you believe authorities are making of your

claims? Now, all of our research and reporting is supported by world exclusive interviews, documents and such. But we're also, for the last three years, we have been fighting the FBI in court to release their Jeffrey Epstein files. And this lawsuit may be the best hope for the public to find out what actually happened. We're expecting in the next couple of months, some progress at least, to try and get more insight into these files. But if there's anyone who's going to crack this case open and finally give closure to the victims and the people of America, it will be us. You know, Melissa Cronin, investigative journalist and author, that is a very sad comment on our justice system.

And having prosecuted so many years, it's a real kick in the teeth when I feel our justice system has failed and covered up for someone powerful and privileged like Epstein and all the other men that were trooping through his I now stand corrected by James Robertson I think now five luxury homes

why I'm really surprised Virginia the victim that has spoken out is still alive I really am Melissa it's true and like you said there's a lot of people that aren't. It's not just the big names like Epstein, like Robert Maxwell, that were silenced. We actually found other people very closely connected to the case who had died under mysterious circumstances. Detective Joseph Ricari, who was a Palm Beach detective that spearheaded the first investigation in Florida. He died under mysterious circumstances. And within about six months after that, another attorney who had represented one of the victims died under similar circumstances. There is a trail.

What were the circumstances? I'm curious, Melissa, when you say mysterious, how did they die? His wife said it was cancer, fast-acting cancer with no signs before that that would happen. He was a very healthy, fit man. He was young, I believe in his early 60s. And, you know, it might sound far-fetched, but the kinds of poisoning that we see from the KGB and metal poisoning, they have similar symptoms and can also lead to that type of cancer. Dylan Howard, people connected to this case are dropping like flies. Well, listen, the FBI has described this as a criminal enterprise. Their words, not mine. We have

established business and intelligence ties to Jeffrey Epstein involving a number of countries. It would behoove the FBI today to release its complete file instead of fighting us in a court of law for the documents to be released under freedom of information. There is more to this story than just sexual abuse and exploitation of minors and the FBI and the Department of Justice need to tell the world what they know. crime stories with nancy grace maria farmer was a promising young artist when she says she met epstein and maxwell at an art show in new york city in 1995 epstein told her the whole house was wired with pinhole cameras and took her into the media

room where they were monitored. I looked on the cameras and I saw toilet, toilet, bed, bed, toilet, bed. I'm like, I am never going to use the restroom here and I'm never going to sleep here. Was there videotape? Oh yeah, it was all video all the time, yeah. And I asked him one time, what do you do with this? And he said, I keep it. I keep everything in my safe. dugan and he was a sheriff in palm beach states they weren't taped so much as dvds i don't know if these were footages or not but every bedroom in epstein's houses had multiple cameras he used to keep records of everybody he stored everything so palm beach pd they knew that there were thousands and thousands of these dvds except when they went to go search for them they were gone it's not really a question of who would have access the question is who had

knowledge the search was coming he goes on to say do i think epstein was put up to getting wealthy people to sleep with underage women to be blackmailed. I absolutely do be blackmailed by Western intelligence agencies. He goes on to say he was able to leave jail basically anytime he wanted. This is unheard of, but he was able to leave jail as long as he had two deputies go with him on overtime. They were paid overtime. Overtime detail in Palm Beach County Sheriff's is by contract selected out of a random pool, but this was different. These deputies that would go with Epstein were hand-picked, and there were guys specifically who would look the other way while he, Epstein, would bring underage girls into his office and his home. This is very, very far-reaching from what you're saying, James Robertson.

Yes, I mean, Mark himself was reportedly a person of interest for MI6 who were interested in talking with him about what he knows about Prince Andrew. We were the first people to talk with Mr. Dugan, who gave me that explosive interview from the backseat of a taxi driving around Moscow. He's scared for his life. When he fled for asylum, he left behind a wife, he left behind children, who he hasn't seen for now three years. Now, I asked him if he would do the same. Just credit him if you like. But if someone was willing to make that sacrifice in an effort to try and find the truth, it is worth considering that he may be credible. And for any man who can walk away from their family,

to try and seek justice is a noble and powerful thing. Dylan Howard, you and I have taught many, many times over the years, and I've always been a proponent of a very staunch disbelief in conspiracy theories. For one reason, I don't think people generally can keep their yaps shut to hold on to a conspiracy. Just let me dummy it down. Like O.J. Simpson, there was a big. Just let me dummy it down like OJ Simpson. There was a big conspiracy theory that the LA police framed him. Right. Don't you know every

single one of them, if they had, would be writing a book and making a million dollars right now? Come on, please. Yeah, that didn't happen. And also, I don't think people put that much thought into their actions. So I'm not one for conspiracy theories at all. But in this case, the theories you are espousing are backed up with intense, intense research. Dylan, let me ask you this. What do you think? We've seen Prince Andrew, in the wake of these developments, suddenly, quote, retire from royal duties. What do you make of that, Dylan?

Well, your producer at the start, before we were recording this podcast, said, do you think Dylan will ever know the full truth about the Jeffrey Epstein case? I think because of the deep intelligence connections, we never will. And the cover-up will continue. You're right. Conspiracy theories are salacious and seductive. But in this particular instance, I can say that we meticulously researched all of the angles that we printed. And we didn't print some because they were seemingly far-fetched. But here's the great injustice of the Jeffrey Epstein story. If he was an international spy, we already know he was a predatory monster. If he was an international spy, he was able to commit his crimes unchecked for so long because of that sweetheart deal.

And beyond the pressing questions now in his life after death, we have to ask ourselves this one question. Could he have been stopped? And the simple answer and the tragic answer to that is yes. If you believe, now speaking out, Robert Jeffrey, the alleged victim of Jeffrey Epstein, whoour pimp, would go out and recruit girls for Epstein, that she would tell them how to, quote, please Epstein and others in bed, including Andrew. Why hasn't she been brought in? Where is she? If this is part of some type of a federal investigation, are they harboring her somewhere, Melissa?

Yeah, I mean, I don't know that the United States is even looking for her that hard. Like I said, sources close to the family have told us that she is under protection by the British government, who doesn't want her to spill Prince Andrew's secrets. But she is definitely the one, if anyone, that can shed more light on this. She wasn't just the one that recruited Virginia Roberts Jeffrey and other women who were abused by Jeffrey Epstein. We actually found documents that had been seized from Jeffrey Epstein's Palm Beach home that said she was training these women in how to service him. She was training these women, then young girls, in sexual acts that were far beyond anything that they ever

would have conceived of at the age of 14, 15, 16. She was training them to do these things to please him and to please the other men in his orbit. So Jeffrey Epstein is dead and he's been silenced, but she's still out there and we're determined to find her. James Robertson, editor-in-chief, US Weekly. Do you believe Epstein committed suicide? I don't believe that there isn't a more dark and sinister story behind what really happened that night. I think the most telling angle is that his own family

are concerned that the autopsy was not done properly, and they're demanding a more thorough investigation into what happened. And the family believe that he was murdered. Now, does this mean that someone entered his cell and exited after killing him? Was he pressured by somebody on the inside? That was something I asked Mark Dugan, the former Palm Beach County Sheriff who has political asylum now in Russia. I asked his opinion on this also.

As a man who works for law enforcement, he said the easiest place to kill somebody is in prison, not on the street, but in jail. And he believes that the guards can always look the other way. Now, the two guards who were working that night are currently facing charges of misconduct to some degree, which is ongoing. And he does believe that it wouldn't be uncommon for that to have happened and that there would be a more dark and sinister reason behind Jeffrey's death. With me, Dylan Howard, Melissa Cronin, and James Robertson in their brand new

book, Dead Men Tell No Tales. Dylan Howard, have you tried to take your information to authorities, to law enforcement? Well, a lot of the information that we have is what has been obtained or given to us by law enforcement. What we've established since that is this deep connection, this mysterious jigsaw that every day new pieces of the puzzle come into play. It was released. I conversed with one of Robert Maxwell's former friends, an 80-year-old man who now lives in California who shed new light on this. I'm calling for a complete and thorough disclosure of what the FBI has. They need to release it to the public. They need to be candid. And if there is deep intelligence connections at the root of this story, it makes for the greatest espionage tale in the history of the world.

And we have a right to know. And I'm not certainly one that is going to give up in pursuit of trying to find the answers to so many unanswered questions today. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. So why wouldn't you announce this break-up when you got back? Why wouldn't you publicly explain what you'd done? Did you worry that he had something that could compromise you? No. No. Do you regret that trip? Yes.

Do you regret the whole friendship with Epstein? Now, still not and the reason being is that that the the people that i met and the opportunities that i was given to learn either by him or because of him were actually very useful. Okay, you're hearing Prince Andrew giving a voluntary interview to our friend at BBC, Emily Maitlis, to James Robertson, investigative journalist, editor-in-chief, US Weekly. James, you have spoken at length with former deputy sheriff out of Florida, now in Russia.

Tell me your experience with him and what you think he knows about Epstein. So sorry, just to clarify, it was that he was named as someone who was a person of interest by the MI6. I managed to reach him first of all via email and Facebook, and then subsequently that by telephone. And he would only talk to me while traveling in the back of a taxi. He changed cars two or three times and had to verify myself to him from America where I was talking to him as he was concerned that I may have had more of a reason than the honest reporting that we were doing to find him. And his story was, like you say, it almost feels like a spy novel. But this was a man who sacrificed his own family to tell his side of the story

and claims to maintain all of these files and documents and DVDs that were seized by the Palm Beach during the raid on Etudean's house. And he claims that he's maintaining the possession of this to protect his family. He's scared for his life. He's scared for the life of his children and his wife. I'm very curious as to why no one seems interested enough to somehow broker a deal with him and look at the DVDs and see what evidence they may or may not hold. Melissa Cronin, what concerns me among so many different things, not only how many underage sex abuse victims there are, what powerful and or wealthy individuals were in Epstein's orbit, what he had on them, how were they blackmailed, what did they do in exchange,

what was the favor they gave in exchange for those DVDs not being made public. But who within law enforcement was helping Epstein, Melissa? What do you think of those questions? They're the questions that need to be answered, and there's still so much more information about how they might have helped him cover up his trail along the way. One of the things that we found that was really just jaw dropping related to that sweetheart deal that you mentioned that he had gotten in Florida. Now, Alex Acosta, who later became Trump's labor secretary, was the one who kind of spearheaded this deal that allowed Epstein to leave prison, have his own office, all of these things.

We actually found a letter from Acosta's office to Epstein's attorneys prior to that sweetheart deal that offered him an even sweeter sweetheart deal, Alex Acosta's office had offered Epstein the possibility of not serving any prison time, of doing solely probation. And now Epstein rejected it at the time because he still believed that he could get away with it. But finding that document contradicted everything that Alex Acosta has been saying to the media about this deal. He claimed that he allowed Epstein to get the sweetheart deal because all he was concerned about was having him serve some prison time. This document proves that that's a lie, because initially his office offered him a deal with no prison time whatsoever. That's just one example of how deep this corruption and cover up goes. People are lying bald faced to the media, to the public, and it's going to take continued digging on the part of people like us to expose this conspiracy. Well, another thing as a former prosecutor, when you've got a victim to tell her story and you've got corroboration, I don't mean DNA or a blue dress with semen on it, but witnesses placing them together,

phone logs, cell phone triangulation, corroborating her story. Why would you just settle for, quote, some jail time? Oh, oh, no, no, no, no. A sex predator should get the maximum. Listen. The then underage girls say they were lured by the cash. My mother was on drugs at the time and she couldn't provide for me and I was pretty much homeless. Former Palm Beach Police Chief Michael Ryder says many of the girls didn't know each other but had the same story. We believe that this would end up in a prosecution that would incarcerate Mr. Epstein for the remainder of his life. Federal prosecutors even had a 53-page indictment ready to go, according to a court filing. But Epstein, a hedge fund manager who

famously palled around with Donald Trump, Bill Clinton, and Prince Andrew, never faced those serious charges. Instead, a plea deal was struck. He pleaded guilty to two counts related to solicitation of prostitution and only served 13 months in a county jail. You were just hearing our friend at NBC, that was Stephanie Gosk reporting. So why would Acosta or any honest prosecutor settle for quote quote, some jail time, because that's not right. I've just got so many questions. Take a listen to this. The 2008 agreement protects Epstein and anyone who worked with him from federal charges.

He is a registered sex offender, but can travel freely to homes in New York, Florida, and the Caribbean. Alleged victims are now fighting to get Epstein's deal thrown out. Emboldened by the Me Too movement, they want their stories heard. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. The very rich and powerful are part of this story, including a former president, Bill Clinton. What is Mr. Epstein's connection to former President Bill Clinton? And how well, given that it's in Palm Beach, does he know the current president, Donald Trump? So I don't want to get too far out of my repertorial abilities here. This is not a story I have followed closely.

They are associated by name, and I believe they've traveled together, Jeffrey Epstein and former President Bill Clinton. I have no clue whatsoever how well Jeffrey Epstein knew or didn't know Donald Trump either before he was president or as president. I do know in general, and I mean in a very general sense, having been down to Palm Beach a lot in and around the Trump story, both campaign and presidency, that a lot of people who are well-heeled and wealthy tend to know one another, bump into each other at the same places. That's a general impression. You are listening to our friends at CBS.

To you, Dylan Howard, do you believe there is proof that Clinton's relationship with Epstein was much more extensive than has been admitted? Absolutely. There is no doubt about that. Bill Clinton has been evasive about how many times he interacted with Jeffrey Epstein and has seemingly been caught in a series of lies. The purpose and motive behind that, perhaps to diminish his involvement or his connection to Epstein, or perhaps something more sinister. He's denied any interaction with young girls. In fact, I spoke to a source the other day who said that he simply just, that that wasn't his style. He wasn't into

that young looking women. So one has to question. Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, wait. Did you just, is this Dylan Howard I'm talking to right now? Have I gotten... Defending Bill Clinton? Clinton's not interested in younger-looking women? Did you actually just say that? I would suggest underage women was the point that my thoughts would make. All right, that's a whole other can of worms. Okay, I hear you on that.

But certainly... And it's not just... It's just not him. Do you claim also that Trump's relationship with Epstein was more extensive than has been admitted? Absolutely. So President Trump actually purchased a yacht that he named after Ivanka in the 1980s. He admitted this to David Letterman in an interview. And that yacht was previously owned by international arms dealer Adnan Khashoggi. Adnan Khashoggi was a, two were rubbing shoulders much, much earlier than the days of Mar-a-Lago and Palm Beach County. So President Trump has also not been forthcoming with the true extent of his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein.

Now, this is not to say, Nan. Well, did you ever think it may not be nefarious on either Clinton or Trump's behalf? And I'm certainly not in the business, as you well know, of defending politicians, but they're probably distancing themselves in any way they can from the whole stinking mess of Epstein. And think about it this way, too, though. Jeffrey Epstein was somewhat of a recluse who socialized behind closed doors, rarely socialized in public. But his black book was a list of influential individuals. And it might not be a classic honey trap that he was orchestrating,

but the recording of conversations with high net wealth individuals and politicians from around the world, that those discussions themselves could be compromising information used for the benefit of intelligence. James Robertson, what can you tell me about the interview you guys did with Epstein's longtime chauffeur? The chauffeur was a longtime source of mine who had struggled with what he witnessed as Mr. Epstein's chauffeur. And he provided me a dossier of credit card receipts that also contained names of new women, addresses and hideaways that we weren't aware of prior to that, that is part of the book Dead Men Tell No Tales.

And what he told me was it became a joke that they would call him the pedophile and they would talk about how depraved he was, but they didn't quite know exactly the true extent because they were always looking the other way. He was always, always kind of making sure that they would wait outside the buildings and never came in. He was always at the bottom of the runway, so could never see the faces of the people who were getting in the car. He did see one woman who he thought was young enough to be Epstein's niece. Now, we now know that that was probably a victim of Mr. Epstein's. In the research and reporting that we did from the materials that the chauffeur provided us, we found these new victims and new names.

And as we saw how their lives had become since those incidents, it was haunting. There were so many cases of drug abuse, prostitution arrests, and the damage that Epstein did, not just during the abuse of while he was using these women as his playthings, but after the fact, the decades and years of personal pain that they endured because of that was really incredibly disturbing. Dylan, what can you tell me, speaking of interviews, you guys actually interviewed Epstein's jailmate who witnessed his first suicide attempt. What did you learn, Dylan? We learned that Epstein had been in a despondent mood, which does give credence to the thought that he may have actually tried to commit suicide and ultimately was successful in pursuit of that.

But he says that Epstein, in the time when he attempted to commit suicide, had been eating off the floor of the jail. He was not interacting with others. And in fact, when he was discovered by correctional officers, they had zero sympathy for him and they dropped him on the concrete and his head hit the concrete so hard that the th sub could be heard throughout the Metropolitan Correction Center here in Manhattan. So, you know, there are varying inconsistent stories here. Victims' rights advocates all say, from Gloria Allred to Spencer Coven, another lawyer, and Lisa Bloom, that they're not prepared to rule out the possibility of murder in the instance of Jeffrey's death. Others suggest he was so despondent that he was ready to commit suicide because he knew

there was no light at the end of the tunnel and that that's why he prepared a will in the two days before his death that bequeathed all his money and his estate to his brother. In all, the totality of this are many more unanswered questions. And sure, the book does shed some phenomenal and at times riveting details about the inner workings of his operation. But I still am left with this lingering feeling that we don't know it all. And we must know it all. Take a listen to this, our friends at CBS. Epstein was involved with at least 40 underage girls, some of whom he had sex with, according to court filings obtained by NBC News. Several of his accusers speaking out for the first time to the Miami Herald. I was 16.

I was 16. I started going to him when I was like 14, 15, 14 turning 15. A report from the Palm Beach Police Department alleges the girls were promised money in exchange for massages and that a female who recruited young teens for the tycoon allegedly told one victim, the more you do, the more you get paid. He just laid down in his towel on his stomach, and he was just talking to people on the phone. When he flipped over, that's when he said, okay, you can go ahead and take off your shirt and pants. The accounts include accusations from indecent exposure to inappropriate touching to rape. The book is Dead Men Tell No Tales. You can get it on Amazon.

And with me, Dylan Howard, Melissa Cronin, James Robertson, who literally wrote the book, and I can guarantee you this, it ain't over yet. It's a comment on our justice system when you three must band together to seek the truth instead of law enforcement. I've got a feeling your next book will be coming out very, very soon. Dylan, Melissa, James, thank you. Please, if you want to know more, go to Amazon.

Read Dead Men Tell No Tales yourself. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend.