Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - 'SOMEBODY’S LYING!' says Carole Baskin’s 'missing' hubby's lawyer!

Episode Date: April 28, 2020

Jack 'Don' Lewis' lawyer, Carole Baskin's missing husband, says he has no doubt that his client and friend is dead. He tells Nancy Grace someone is lying and he has a theory on who. He also has a theory on how Lewis was killed. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Hi guys, Nancy Grace here. All of us here at Crime Stories are working every day to stay in touch with you and bring you the very latest in crime and justice news all around our country. And now our friends at SiriusXM are making it even easier for you to get Crime Stories while so many of us are doing our part staying home and staying safe. This is what they're doing.

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This is Jack Don Lewis's lawyer, Joseph Fritz. Mr. Fritz, thank you for being with us. Yes, ma'am. Mr. Fritz, what do you make of all the theories about what happened to your client, Jack Don Lewis? He's presumed dead according to our court system. In my view, there's no question but that he was murdered. So you, like me, are convinced he's dead.

He's not just missing. He's dead. As we say in the South, DRT, dead right there. That's exactly what they say dead right there okay mr fritz i i've got so many questions for you i hardly know where to start but i'm going to start with your last response and that was he was murdered i agree with you he didn't just drop dead of a stroke. He was murdered. Why do you say that? Well, first of all, he loved his cats.

He really loved those cats. I was there with him. I was there with my son, the predecessor, Wildlife on Easy Street. He loved those cats. He never would have just walked away from them, ever. He wouldn't have done it. He was proud of those cats. He loved those cats. He never would have just walked away from them, ever. He wouldn't have done it. He was proud of those cats. He loved those cats.

Some force made him leave. Now, wait a minute, Fritz. I would never leave my children. I get it. But what about his family? I don't think he would just walk out and not tell his children he was leaving and never have contact with them again from that day forward. I agree he wouldn't. Why else do you believe he was murdered Mr. Fritz? Circumstantial

evidence. I think a lot of people have lied about what went on what was going on at the time. I heard a lot of people remarks about Costa Rica and things of that nature. I don't know who is a murderer and who is not a murderer, but I know who's a liar. And I can definitively state that somebody's lying about it. So I don't like the words of the power of attorney of disappearance. I don't like the facts and circumstances. I don't like the words of the power of attorney of disappearance. I don't like the facts and circumstances. I don't like the prior petition for domestic violence injunction. I don't like a lot of things that were going on at the time.

Do I know who murdered him? No, I don't. Well, you said that you know that someone is lying. Who is lying? Well, I read Carol Baskin's response to the Tiger King. And some of the things she said in there I personally know to be false. Such as? What my involvement with Don Lewis, for instance. Well, what does she say your involvement was and what was your involvement?

Well, at that time in my life and in my career, I was doing a kind of peculiar kind of law. I was doing animal law with the USDA, the regulated showing to animals and fish and game, our fish and game at the time, which licensed animals, and our local animal control, which basically did the local inspections of animal facilities. And I think we got connected because he needed help with some of his animal issues that were going on. And at the same time, I represented, oddly enough, a major bank that had just moved to Florida. I represented their secured end, and there was mortgages, notes, there was foreclosures, there was leases, there was all sorts of things going on. And that was another thing that Don was involved with, is making money off investments and things of that nature.

So we pretty much were a pretty close fit into what he needed and what I was capable of doing. And after that, I got invited to his home and saw the cats at his home. And then Wildlife on Easy Street started that 40 acres by the mall. And I've been there a few times. I actually went in the leopard cage, well, lion tamer's cage, with a pair of leopards there. My son and I went in. I might parenthetically tell you that I've been bit twice by leopards. But anyway, we became friends, and I guess I would see him. His office was east of town, and my home at the time was further east,

so on the way home, many times I would stop at their office and chat with him. The ultimate relationship was friends, pals, buddies, and an attorney client. You know, Mr. Fritz, the more I've looked at and listened to Don Lewis, he seems like such a likable guy. Like he could just sit down in his office, put your feet up on his desk, and just talk. That's how he comes across. But I happen to know he was quite the womanizer. I've heard that, yes.

Do you know it to be true? Have I seen it? No. Are you going to take those secrets to your grave? I do not know it to be true. I have never seen it. I never questioned him about it. He never admitted it. He never said anything about it.

But I certainly heard a solid diet of that, yes. So what Carol Baskin has today, her animal sanctuary, is really what your client, Jack Don Lewis, built long before she came into the picture. Is that correct? Yes. And let me correct something for you and for the world. That is not a rescue and that is not a sanctuary. That's a private zoo. Sanctuaries and rescue places, you take the animals to them to spend the rest of their life there. They bought animals. If you looked at Tiger King, you saw the first load of animals he bought was for $94,000. You don't buy animals to populate a sanctuary or a rescue.

That, in my view, is a fraud. It's a private zoo. A private zoo. And it It's a private zoo. A private zoo. And it today is a private zoo. Absolutely. With a catchy name. So what do you make of Carole Baskin claiming that it is a sanctuary? Fraud. But why?

What's in it for her? What would be in it for her? I don't know. I don't know the particulars of it, but I truly suspect thousands upon thousands upon thousands of donations and volunteers doing all the work over there, thinking it's some sort of a rescue. It's not a rescue at all. I don't know what money they make out of it.

I don't know what money they don't make out of it. But I have heard of a significant number of people make monthly contributions to that through the charitable portals and stuff mr fritz i want to go back to what you were saying that you know someone is lying and it's all mixed up and what happened to your client don lewis you said that there are lies about your alleged involvement and your real involvement was that you were his lawyer and his friend. What else has been lied about? What other lies are you talking about? The relationship between Don and I, how Don and I first hooked up. She made some comment about a mortgage,

which just absolutely was not true. It was off the wall. But why lie about it? I don't know. You'd have to ask her. Tell me about the marriage, if you know about it. I understand that there was a restraining order filed, not granted, but filed by your client against Carol Baskin. What happened?

I've read the meat of the complaint basically says he wanted an injunction because she, quote unquote, threatened to kill him. But there's no corroboration. No, I wish, in retrospect, I wish he would have come to me before he filed it. We might have been able to question and answer and flesh it out more and make some other allegations that could be made. I don't know. But his just was a naked complaint that said she threatened to kill me. And frankly, I have several things to say. In my view, I don't think that's sufficient to grant an injunction on it. Number two, we as a society generally don't restrain free speech. But there's no overt act going forward. Hold on, Mr. Fritz. Free speech that amounts to a terroristic threat or some other sort of crime,

such as bribery, threat, that is not protected by free speech. When you threaten to kill someone your defense is not freedom of speech under the Bill of Rights. Oh no! I don't think any judge in America would grant that injunction to be honest with you. If there had been any overt act at all, like waving a gun or swinging a baseball bat or anything or somebody else who heard it or somebody else or multiple times it would have gone forward, I have no doubt.

But just to make an allegation. Didn't he mention something about his guns being taken? Well, first of all, my recollection was he wasn't even supposed to have a gun in the first place. I had understood that somewhere in his past he had a conviction that prohibited that. I don't know whether that's what you're referring to

or something else. I know I had to chase down one of his guns that he had under a mattress in a motel room in Cincinnati. And a few other things. My understanding was when he first met Carol, there was a pistol involved. I don't know where the pistol is. I don't know who disarmed him or took it away from him.

I have no clue. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Mr. Fritz, let's get right down to it. What do you believe happened to Jack Don Lewis, and why do you believe that? Years and years and years ago, I heard off the street, and you've been around long enough to know if you hear something off the street once, maybe it's true, maybe it's not. If you start hearing a solid diet of it, there's something to it. But what I had heard was that he was strangled from the backseat of an airplane over the gulf at 50 feet and dropped out over the gulf the other day when the sheriff interviewed me 24 years late parenthetically i told them that

and they said they told me that they had heard the same story so the street is starting to tell the same story to different people so there's probably something to it. In that scenario, who would be behind your client, Don Lewis? Who would be steering the airplane, and who would have the physical acumen to throw him out of the airplane? Well, there must have been three people in the plane. The owner of the plane, or whoever was selling the plane, which is what I've heard, that he was up there. He had bought and sold airplanes in the past. He had a pilot's license in the past, although I understand it was suspended or revoked by the FAA, which is why Don liked to

fly at 50 feet, stay under radar. He didn't have his squawk on He wouldn't give you his tail number or did any of the other things that routinely pilots do but my understanding was is that somebody the owner of the plane flew with a motor on a test flight of this plane and Somebody was in the back seat. I have no idea who the plane was. I have no idea who the pilot was I have no idea who was in the back seat although that scenario is basically what our sheriff's corporal that interviewed me from homicide he'd heard the same thing who his informant is I don't know and mr. Fritz let's just follow that through to its logical conclusion if that were true and I know the sheriff

Chronister believes that more than one person is involved in Don Lewis's death but in that scenario you would have to believe that the owner of the plane was party to a murder or that he was killed himself that is a little bit of a stretch to think an impartial owner of a plane takes prospective buyers up in the plane then a murder goes down and they never say a word much less help in the murder that's a tough pill to swallow don't you think nope that's that's my working theory that's that's what i think happened but who would go nobody I think happened. But who would go along with that? Huh?

Who would go along with an impartial owner of a plane, witnesses or takes part, witnesses in murder, and then never says a word? That's correct. You know, the point of the matter was, is whoever is in the front seat, whoever is in the back are co-conspirators. And a plot for hire to, you know, a plot to murder for hire. Okay. That's what happened. Okay. In my view. Now I see where you're going.

That the owner of the plane would benefit, get money for his or her part in the murder. I get it. Take us up. I'm going to do this and I'll pay you. Now, do you have a theory as to who would have, this is just a working theory and let me point out, Carol Baskin

has not been named as a suspect in Lewis, an official suspect in Lewis' disappearance or death. Who would have done that in your working theory? Frankly, I don't know. I suspect people.

I suspect things, but I have no evidence. None. You know, a lot of attention is being directed at Carol Baskin because she obviously benefited from that will and the very unusual clause in the event of my death, kidnap, or disappearance, I believe it went, all my entire wealth goes to Carol Baskin. She obviously would benefit immensely from his death or disappearance. I've never seen a clause like that before. I've written quite a few wills and certainly studied it in law school. Have you ever seen a clause like that before I've written quite a few wills and certainly studied in a law school have you ever seen a clause like that in

a will before we've talked about that at my law office there's three lawyers in my law office among the three of us we have a hundred years of experience this year all of us have looked at it all of us have talked about it we haven't seen it in a hundred years and you've been in for another 40. So we're pushing 150 years of experience. It's never seen it. Never. That takes us almost back to the founding of the country. But now hold on. You're his lawyer. Didn't you see the will? Did you ever say, why is that in there? No, I never saw it. I never saw it while he was alive. No. Just like I never saw the petition for an injunction. While he was alive. So do you believe the will was created after he went missing?

When was that will first produced? I couldn't tell you. You'd have to ask the sheriff. I started hearing about it later, but I don't know when it first came out. Did you have a previous copy of his will or any copy of a will? No, it wasn't my job. I was doing some commercial work for them. Okay, so you had never seen a will before?

No. I was doing some commercial work for them. Let's just say you had a tiger by the tail. We'll leave it at that. Okay, so you've got extreme wealth, $5 to $7 million that we know of, plus a highly, highly and unorthodox clause in a will. I've never seen anything like it. As if he was predicting his death or disappearance or kidnap. And it also suggests that the bulk of his estate would pass to Carol Baskin if he simply

disappeared before he was legally declared dead. It says clearly, in the event of my disappearance or death, you get the money. So, bottom line, the will suggests that she didn't have to wait until he was officially dead. She could get the money pronto the minute he disappeared. Is that the way you read the will, Mr. Fritz? Yeah, it is. Remember, under fraud law, you can't completely disinherit a wife anyway. I think they get a, I forget the word, they get 30%.

A widow's pension. They get a widow's share. If you don't give the wife 30%, they can neglect to take against the will is what happens. So how much money were we talking about, Mr. Fritz? Did he have that you know of, and there's stories about him burying money, burying gold? I don't know what's true and what's not, but is he the kind of guy that would have hidden money? You have several questions on the table. First, he probably

had between $5 and $10 million. I've heard stories about burying buckets of gold. As he'd go through the day, he'd buy gold, you know, from a broken chain from this person or what have you. And I've heard that there was a bucket of gold that's never been found. He is the type that would bury

money. He had significant resources well it's not that unheard of mr. Fritz my great-grandmother who only went to fifth grade buried money on her farm until she paid for that farm she was renting and the farmhouse and the house with out of jars that she had buried on the farm so it's not that unheard of so you know it's not would have buried gold you asked I told you he buried he buried gold he buried money pay or everything mr. Fritz I've got one of your working theories about how Lewis went missing. What can you tell me about his place, his home, his estate, his butler,

and his mistress in Costa Rica? Did they see him after he disappeared? I didn't hear your last part of that. Did the people down in Costa Rica see him after he disappeared in the States? I didn't hear your last part of that. Did the people down in Costa Rica see him after he disappeared in the States? I don't think so. I can tell you what the Costa Rica thing was. Here, if you engage in exotic animals, you have a ton of regulatory issues. You have to be permitted by Fish and Game. You have to be regulated by USDA if you display those animals. You're regulated under our local

animal control regulations. All sorts of things go on. My understanding is, in Costa Rica, there's a vibrant trade of these animals and virtually no regulation. So obviously, he went over there and was picking up animals and buying animals. Just last week I saw a picture of me holding my favorite cat, an ocelot, which is

kind of an almost endangered South American cat that I knew came from Costa Rica because he told me it did. So many things that Don did were just on the cusp, not in the white area, not in the black area, somewhere in the gray area. For instance, flying a plane without a pilot's license. For instance, buying and selling regulated and licensed animals, flying 50 feet above the Gulf so you stay off radar. Many of the things he did were in the gray area and that's one of the reasons if not the main reason for for the Costa Rica connection. Did he hide

gold down there or silver or I have no idea did he have a did he have a concubine down there I don't know I don't know I never went down there with him crime stories with Nancy Grace. Let me ask you a question regarding the day he disappeared. At that time, do you believe he was getting ready to file for divorce from Carol Baskin? Do I believe he was? Yes. I've heard stories it was getting bad enough. Had he consulted with me over it? No, he had not. The stories you've heard, what were they and are they from reliable sources, someone that you believe?

You mean about the state of the marriage? Yes. I've heard people that were kind of close to Don make comments about it. Don never told me anything directly. I did overhear some of the cell phone calls between he and his wife that were not uh they were heated but not threatening uh what would they be arguing about i don't remember ma'am that's a quarter century ago was that common that they argued like that i couldn't tell you a common or not common but a few phone calls that i heard the two of them make, you know, there was some animosity there, yeah. How did she

manage to wiggle up in his life? How did they meet? Wasn't he married with children? I've heard, I don't know how they met, but I've heard that somewhere probably 10 minutes north of downtown Tampa on Nebraska Avenue, which at the time was not a very nice street. That's the street my office is on, however. They were probably 20 blocks north of my office. What I've heard was that she had a fight with her then-husband and walked out and was trying to cool off or get her fresh air. And Don pulled up, and basically they started talking

and she got in his van, ultimately. That's how I understand they met. I don't know, however. So according to the lore, he just picked her up off the street. He picked her up out of Nebraska Avenue, which did not have a good reputation at the time. Hmm. Well, okay.

All right. Were you working for him at the time. Hmm. Well, okay. All right. Were you working for him at the time of their marriage? I'm sorry? Sure. That part of Nebraska was known for hookers. Was she one? I don't think so. Question to you.

Were you working with Don Lewis at the time he got married? Yes. Wait a minute. They may have just been living together. I don't know. I know one of the times I went to his house. You asked me how the house was. The house was a regular house, but it smelled of cats, if you know what I'm saying.

She was there. I said cats, but urine will do. So she was already there in the home. Where was the wife? I don't know, ma'am. I was just there just playing with the cats. Leading up to the day he went missing, what do you know that happened? I mean, we all know that his 89 vehicle was parked at a private airport,

and it had his briefcase, his suitcase, keys in it, and it was unlocked. What else do you know about the days leading up to his disappearance? Very little. It was a shock and a sadness to me. Of course, my suspicion turned on you-know-who. Just like the sheriff, just like every other murder case, you look to the spouse first. Can I prove it, disprove it no I can you know one thing you got to understand Don Lewis would he was terribly cheap while he was very wealthy he was cheap beyond belief he also had a little goats. And he'd go to,

for instance, get that same van I wrote in. And we picked up Dale thrown away bread stuff like pasty cake and bear bread, and you know, and they paid, I don't know, 15 cents a tray, you know, to feed the goats. And there'd be some cheese crackers in there, and he'd pull them out and put them up front in the van for them to eat when they went to Michigan to buy livestock. I saw him another time when he had a t-shirt on. I said, Don, I didn't know you knew something about that. He said, oh, don't pay attention to the shirt. He said, I just bought it at a yard sale for 50 cents. So it was horribly cheap. And every time that he got a deal to get a deal, he would take the deal, period. So, you know, all of that, I don't know what he's

doing there, but what would have lured him more than anything else is a good deal on an airplane. So that's what I assume happened, that he got lured up to Pilot Country Estates to look at an airplane a good deal on a plane so what do you make of the claim he was leaving for costa rica i don't know that he left for costa rica that day so you believe that he was going to pilot country airport to look at a plane for sale yes ma'am he'd owned several in his life and i think you know if, if I told him I have a $500 ring that you can buy here for $100 He'd be on the road coming in with $100 You know, that's a real interesting theory, Mr. Fritz

Because I've been working under the theory that I was given That he was planning a trip to Costa Rica And he had gone to that private airport There was no manifest Nobody could identify him coming through airport, there was no manifest. Nobody could identify him coming through the airport. There was no flight plan, nothing like that. So he never flew out on a trip.

But your theory that he was going to look for a plane to buy would make more sense because you don't have to show your ID. You don't have to go through the office and log in that you're leaving. You just show up and you go look at the plane. Understand, if Don were flying, he wouldn't want anybody to know he was flying because it was illegal. opinion on the theories that your client jack don lewis was fed through a meat grinder there on his at his private zoo as you call it or that he was buried under a septic tank there at the zoo what do you make of those theories they're blarney agree i've seen that that meat grinder the output on it is no bigger than a coffee cup, a little bit bigger than a coffee cup. I don't think anything like that could have happened.

If it was, there would have been DNA, there would have been hair, there would have been all sorts of stuff all over. Even our sheriff couldn't do that crummy investigation. They would have found that. Under the septic tank, I don't have a clue, but I don't think so. I heard Carol make fun of it on TV. The septic tank was years after or predated, whatever. Mr. Fritz, I got another question regarding the sheriff. Not necessarily the sheriff, but the investigation at the time.

Do you think an adequate investigation was done into his disappearance? Absolutely not. Why? I think Walmart security would do a better investigation of a kid shoplifting a CD than the sheriff did in this murder case. To think that they gave the car back with no forensics, to think that they didn't check radars, to investigate everybody up at Pilot Country Estates, they didn't do a thing that I could see. Why? Why? I have no clue. I have a theory, but, um, no, I'm not going there. Okay. I understand. What do you make of the fact that Carol Baskin... I will comment this. No,

I want to make a comment. You know, our sheriff's department here is so politically entwined that our Sheriff's Department creates its own weather. So I don't know why, what they're doing. I don't know. Let me give you the example. I'm obviously pretty close to the situation, pretty close to Don and do a few things. And I know some things that have never been brought out before. Why in the world would it take them 24 years to interview me? Mr. Fritz, when you say you know things that have never been brought out before, such as what? A $1.2 million life policy and the disposition of it. Who was the beneficiary?

I'm not going to name a name, but there was a beneficiary. Let me just put it in these terms. And was it paid out? Was it paid out? Let me finish. Let me finish. Okay. Not for five years until he was declared dead by a court.

It was paid out. The idea was that they were going to form a trust, and the trust was going to be the owner and the beneficiary of the policy. He disappeared before that could be done. But he had with somebody, and I'm not naming them because they're still a friend, client, pal, and buddy of mine, the current client for that matter. He had left instructions, who got what. When he died, that person was a beneficiary and the owner of the policy. And as you know, being a lawyer, he could have walked down the street with the $1.2 million plus the five years of interest, and nobody could have done a damn thing.

I want you to know that five years later, that person wrote the text just the way they'd been told five years prior. That's honesty. If I practice another 40 years, I will never see that again. Do you agree? Why do you say that? Yes. That's the most honest thing I've ever seen anybody do. But why do you say that?

Why do I say what? That's the most honest thing I've ever seen anybody do. What could they have done? Exactly what they did. Don had written on a piece of paper who got what. Which daughter, which this, which that, which everybody. That's exactly the money. The money was divvied up five years later.

The $1.2 million life insurance policy. Yeah, but it was more than that because I think the insurance company had to pay five years interest until he was declared dead. Yeah. When you say that you know things that have never been brought out other than the $1.2 million insurance policy, what else has never been brought out? Well, I'd have to think that one through, but that's the one that's just glaring. Because it shows you who in this scenario is telling the truth and who isn't. Can you be specific? What do you mean by that?

I thought that was pretty specific. If somebody is... Well, not everybody has a JD like you do. A lot of people don't understand what you're talking about that have not gone to law school and gotten a law degree. What is your question? You're telling me, I think, that Lewis, your client, wrote out on a piece of paper how he wanted the $1.2 million

divided up and that the policy owner or whoever was in charge of that did it exactly as it was written down on that piece of paper. Correct. They were the beneficiaryiary the stated beneficiary and the owner of the policy obviously and i was told that they were you know too far but trust and the trust was going to be the owner and the beneficiary and then divvy it up under the terms of the trust he disappeared before that trust could be done or before it was done and that person when the insurance company paid and they could have walked down the street, as you know, with a million two plus interest, said, see, I'm sorry, I'm the beneficiary, that's my money.

They didn't. They sat down and they wrote checks for exactly how they wrote them, what had it done five years prior. That, to me, is honesty. If you're honest with the million two, you've got to be honest with your questions and answers. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Mr. Fritz, what do you make of Carol Baskin's brother being on the sheriff's force at the time that Carol Baskin's husband disappears?

I've questioned that a lot. I have no real answer. I know there's a, you could paint a pretty bad situation out of that if you tried. But I don't know, I don't have any, I've never met the man. I've never looked in his eyes. I never had an opportunity to see whether I thought, quote unquote, the fix was on or not. I have no clue. But it sure raises one's eyebrows. It may raise an eyebrow, I agree with you, but in itself doesn't prove anything. But I find it really hard

to believe that at 3 a.m. in the morning, Carol Baskin was out alone in her vehicle to get tiger milk at 3 a.m. That's very specialized. They don't drink milk out of the grocery store like we do. They drink something very specialized. Where do you get that at 3 a.m. and your car break down and your brother on the sheriff's department comes and fixes the car? That's a little bit of a tall tale, it sounds like. You can't make stuff like that up. That's unreal. Do you believe it? No. You can't make stuff like that up. That's unreal.

Do you believe it? No. Do I believe she was out? Yes. Do I believe the car broke down? Yes. Do I believe her brother said something or did something to her, helping her? Yes.

Do I believe Tiger's built? No. So what in the hay is she doing out at 3 a.m. in the morning? Alone in the car. It's not a crime, but the timing of it is the issue. What do you say to that? I have no reason to think of why she would even be out at 3 in the morning or or what she was doing, or where she was going, or what was going on. I don't have a clue.

What did you think when you first heard that your client, Don Lewis, had vanished? Well, for a week or 10 days, I would have hoped that he might have shown up, that he had gone to Michigan to buy more livestock or Costa Rica and bought some more livestock. But it started becoming pretty clear pretty quick that he wasn't coming back. After you learned that he had gone missing, did you speak to Carol Baskin? Never. Did she ever contact you about his business? No.

My only contact was with his office manager. Yes. And what was her information? What did she think happened? You have to ask her. what was her information? What did she think happened? You have to ask her. When you contacted her, what was it about? Various things.

Some business happenings that were going on, some of the cats, some of this, some of that. She told me what was going on regarding the office and the seizing of paperwork and things of that she told me that the what was going on regarding the office and um the seizing of paperwork and things of that nature that i heard about all that well what was going on who was seizing documents in the office ask her i don't know i don't know firsthand i've heard but and would be the source of the claims that your client had Alzheimer's or dementia near the time of his disappearance? He was absolutely sound of mind.

He was, as I say, oriented times three. He knew the time, date, place, what he was doing, things of that nature. Did he seem a little off? Yes. Was he incompetent? No. I had always put together that one of or two, he had a couple airplane crashes and I thought, I just put together in my mind that some, that he must have had some head trauma during one of those things that caused him to be a little off. But did he have Alzheimer's? Hell no.

It was as sharp as a tack. Now, why do you say he hit his head in a crash? Do you know that to be true, or did you just think that? He never told me about a crash. But I've've heard about I think it was two crashes he had that's why he had no uh his license revoked or suspended by the FAA I am told I've not seen it when I spoke to our when I was interviewed by our sheriff the sheriff told me yes he had those documents so again I believe that, he had been in crashes and that he did have his license revoked by the FAA.

I just put it together in my own head that he probably hit his head during one of those crashes. Matter of fact, I fly quite a bit in my private, and I don't even know somebody that survived one, much less two. What do you make, then, of the claims? Why would anyone say he had dementia or Alzheimer's? Why would anybody even claim that if it weren't true? You know the answer to that.

I guess I do. You know, there's a theory out there that Don Lewis was loaning money to organize crime. What do you make of that? That's bull. I agree. You know, organized crime loans money. They don't borrow money. I'm sure

of juice and vigorous and all the other stuff that they do. It beat people up to get their loans back. They loan money. They don't borrow money. Mr. Fritz, and all the time that Don Lewis has been missing, has there ever been, to your knowledge, a sighting of him, any contact from him, anything that would suggest to you that he was alive?

No, ma'am. Was there a memorial for him? I'm sorry? Was there a funeral or a memorial for him? There was no funeral because there's no body. Memorial, I don't know. If there was, I wasn't invited or notified. Did you have any disagreements with Carol Baskin?

No. Have you spoken to his family, Don Lewis' family? What about it? Do I know them? Right. Have you spoken to them since his disappearance? Spoken to them? No.

They've not reached out to me. I've left them alone. I still deal with the office manager to this day. Right, right. I'm just wondering how his family took his sudden disappearance and if they believe he took off or that he was killed. They obviously think he was killed. One last question for you.

You said that you wish he had come to you regarding that protective order. Why do you say that? Well, many times somebody would just throw out a few words and expect the judge to go with it. A respectable attorney would question many things that happened within, say, six months. Was there any other episodes? Was there any witnesses? Was there any other things that happened?

Can we flesh this out? Is this a recurring pattern or a one-time thing? What were the real threats? Was a gun ever seen, waved? You know, none of that was there, nothing. It may be, it may not be, that I could have sat with him and questioned him and filled out more to give the judge more to go on.

But just to flat say that, I don't think any judge in America would enter an injunction based on that and I will also say let me say a sexual matter too back 25 years ago it was almost laughed at that a woman would hurt a man but if a man would hurt threaten a woman you'd get an immediate injunction so to the extent that's sexual I I'm making a sexual remark, okay? But 25 years ago, that was the way it was. Not so today. You know, I find it really interesting, and all the time you knew Don Lewis, he had never filed a restraining order before. You say that he was of sound mind and uh i believe you said lucid times three something must have made him go and try to get that protective order he had never done it before but he did it then

sure did as i say i wish you would have come to me uh you know we might have maybe we wouldn't maybe we wouldn't but maybe we would have been able to flesh it out, put some more allegations there, some corroboration, so that it wasn't just grabbing a phrase out of midair and saying that's enough and it's not. It's not. It is if it's believed, completely believed. How do you make a judge believe that?

Corroboration, witnesses, other incidents, things of that nature. But to just blow the words out on a piece of paper, somebody threatened to kill me, that's not enough. Mr. Fritz, do you think we're ever going to find out what happened to Don Lewis? Well, that's one of the reasons I'm sitting here. I want to keep the ball up in the air as long as we can. Somebody is one day, there's more than one person involved in this. Chad Chronister says the same thing. The corporal of homicide that I spoke to says the same thing. One day, one of these people is going to stub their toe and want to get out of jail free card. And that's when something's

going to happen. Do you think a reward would help? Yeah, a reward of not serving a life sentence. What do you think about Anne McQueen's story or what she witnessed? Anne McQueen is 100% reliable and a decent individual. Are you going to interview her? Bottom line, yes. Ma'am? Are you? Yes, I'm going to interview her? Bottom line, yes. Ma'am? Are you?

Yes. I'm going to. Yes. Ask her about the policy. The life insurance policy? Ask her. So you think the only way this case is ever going to be cracked is if someone, if it comes to push and shove and somebody's looking at a life sentence? Some kind of sentence.

They're going to want a deal. They always do. Yep. Mr. Fritz, what's your message to whoever killed Don Lewis? One day. Sleep well.

One day. Mr. Fritz, thank you for being with us. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.