Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Special Edition: OJ Simpson WILL go free!

Episode Date: July 20, 2017

Nancy Grace opened up the phone lines immediately after the Nevada Parole Board told OJ Simpson he will be freed in October after serving 9 years of a 33-year sentence for robbery & kidnapping. Reporter Art Harris and psychologist Dr. Bethany Marshall are guests in this special edition of Crime Stories. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. is sitting right now in a state prison for robbery in Las Vegas. You know, nine years away from your family is just not worth it, and I'm sorry. Mr. Simpson, I do vote to grant parole when eligible, and that will conclude this hearing. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Unless you've been living under a rock, you know by now that a two-time killer turned armed robber is set to walk free. That's right. O.J. Simpson, Orenthal James Simpson, notorious football player turned killer, has been released by a Nevada parole board. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Take a listen to this. Mr. Simpson, you organized this crime in which two victims were robbed at gunpoint.

It was a serious crime and there was no excuse for it you deserve to be sent to prison you've been in prison now almost nine years minimum amount opposed by the court you have complied with the rules of the prison you have programmed in an acceptable manner. You have no prior conviction of criminal activity. You are at low risk to re-offend on our guidelines. You have community support and stable release plans.

We've heard from you and from your victim. The question here, as with all parole hearings, is whether or not you have served enough time in prison on this case. Considering all of these factors, my vote is to grant your parole effective when eligible. Thank you. And I concur with Commissioner Korda and grant parole. And in addition, our decision, although difficult, is fair and just. Mr. Randall. our decision although difficult is fair and just I concur with Commissioner Korda and agree to grant for all

mr. Simpson before I cast my vote I want to let you know that we believe that we're a fair board we believe that we're a fair board. We believe that we're a consistent board. I will let you know that that consistency also goes to parole, and we do not look kindly upon parole violations. And if I cast my vote to grant and it concludes the hearing our expectation would be that you not violate even the simplest condition of parole having said that I am prepared to cast a vote I am prepared to ask the commissioners to set conditions if if that happens we will produce an order sometime in the next 15 to 20 minutes

that will be faxed to you or presented to you at the institution and it will become a public record so based on all of that Mr. Simpson I do vote to grant parole when eligible and that will conclude this hearing Thank you

Thank you Thank you this hearing. Now here is what Simpson said in his closing statement to the parole board. Listen to this pack of lies. Mr. Simpson, did you have any closing remarks? I haven't heard any except that, you know, I've come here, I've spent nine years making no excuses about anything. I am sorry that things turned out the way they did. I had no intent to commit a crime. I came here, I tell the inmates all the time and I don't want to hear about your crime you know argue in court here we're all convicts I'm a convict do your time and don't do anything to extend your time I

told the ward when I got here mr. Lagrange I think it was miss Carpenter and miss Megan that I would be no problem I believe in this jury system I CARPENTER AND MS. MEGAN THAT I WOULD BE NO PROBLEM. I BELIEVE IN THIS JURY SYSTEM. I WILL HONOR WHAT THE JURY SAID, AND I WILL BE NO PROBLEM, YOU KNOW, AND I THINK I KEPT MY WORD. AS I SAID, I'VE DONE MY TIME. I JUST LIKE TO GET BACK TO MY FAMILY AND FRIENDS, AND BELIEVE IT OR NOT, I DO HAVE SOME REAL FRIENDS, BUT I DON'T THINK I COULD HAVE REPRESENTED THIS PRISON. family and friends, and believe it or not, I do have some real friends, but I don't think I could have represented this prison.

I don't think any inmate has ever represented it better than I. I did my time. I tried to be helpful to everybody. And as I said, Bruce and Beardsley, I made up with them years ago, you know. So I'm sorry it happened. I'm sorry to Nevada. I wish, I wish Richo had never called me. I thought I was glad to get my stuff back, but it wasn't worth it.

You know, nine years away from your family is just, just not worth it. And I'm sorry. And again, listen to victim Bruce Frumong, who was a longtime friend of Simpson, turned his robbery, armed robbery victim. Bruce Frumong, I'm not here just as Mr. Simpson's friend of almost 27 years, because that I am. But today I'm also appearing as the victim of the crime on September 13th of 2007. On that day, I felt that Mr. Simpson was misguided, not by himself, but also by Tom Riccio. He was led to believe that on that day there were going to be thousands of pieces of his personal memorabilia,

pictures of his wife from his first marriage, pictures of his kids, Arnell and Jason, family heirlooms. He was told there were going to be possibly his wife's wedding ring. Thousands of things. He was misled about what was going to be there that day. A man named Thomas Riccio had promised him this big package. In reality, Thomas Riccio had never met me. Never met me in his entire life till the night of the robbery he got there and saw all this stuff he went down he got OJ and instead of telling him that that's not what was there he brought him up anyway when OJ got there unfortunately he was already worked up and had people with him that were hollering and

screaming there's a lot of commotion going on in a very, very small room. Real small room, wasn't it, O.J.? And a lot of things happened very quickly. And unfortunately, if O.J. had just said, everybody out of here, Bruce and I need to talk for a minute, none of this needed to happen but that didn't happen and it took one of things I want to make clear is that it took me two years in a California court because and a judge's infinite wisdom instead of going ahead and turning things back over. Everything got sent to a California

court to get straightened out. And after having to fight the Goldman's lawyers, OJ's lawyers, and it took me two years to get back with over 600 items. A majority of it did come back to me because I had to go back 19 years through our friendship me because I had to go back 19 years through our friendship but I had to go back 19 years produce records for almost 98% of this stuff and it is true that items in that room belonged OJ there were no two ways about it but it's also true that I have never stolen anything from O.J. I have never stolen from O.J. I think O.J. will admit that I did not ever take anything from him. It wasn't me.

An ex-partner of mine and his mistress, Christy Lukemeier, have taken things. Other people have taken things from OJ, but I have never stolen from OJ. OJ is my friend, always has been, and I hope will remain my friend. But there were things in that room, and I admit to that. And I'm sorry things did not work out differently. And I will make this clear to you. OJ never held a gun on me. There was a coward in that room, a man named McClinton, came up gangster style, acting like a big man. He held the gun on me, not OJ. Another man came in, hit me, not OJ. He never laid a hand on me. A lot of people were yelling, bag that stuff up. Let's get out of here. During the trial, after I had already testified against O.J.,

and this is why I absolutely believe him, after I had already testified against O.J., I had already said everything I had to say, we happened to pass each other in the hallway. I WAS TALKING TO OJ. I WAS TALKING TO OJ. I WAS TALKING TO OJ. I WAS TALKING TO OJ. I WAS TALKING TO OJ. I WAS TALKING TO OJ. I WAS TALKING TO OJ.

I WAS TALKING TO OJ. I WAS TALKING TO OJ. I WAS TALKING TO OJ. I WAS TALKING TO OJ. I WAS TALKING TO OJ. I WAS TALKING TO OJ. I WAS TALKING TO OJ. that I had that stuff. Those few items that belonged to him, I told him I'm sorry that I did not take the opportunity to call him because we'd been apart for a long time. We hadn't had a chance to talk for many, many years. And I'd been buying stuff from Mike Gilbert.

I wish I had him. And he said, Bruce, I can't tell you how sorry I am. And we've got a saying between us, it is what it is. And he put his hand out, I shook his hand, and I said, I forgive you. We all make mistakes. OJ made his. He's been here, and from what I've told, he's been a model inmate. He's been an example to others. During the trial, I recommended that he serve

one to three years. That's what I recommended to the DA. And I'm here to say that I've known OJ for a long time. I don't feel that he's a threat to anyone out there. He's a good man. I know that he does a lot for other people. And I feel that nine and a half to 33 years was way too long. And I feel that it's time to give him a second chance. It's time for him to go home to his family, his friends. This is a good man. He made a mistake. And if he called me tomorrow and said, Bruce, I'm getting out, will you pick me up? Juice, I'll be here tomorrow for you. I mean that, though.

We will continue with our guests and taking your calls here on Crime Stories. Listen to this from Oxygen. July 22nd on Oxygen, the new network for crime. My name is Kelly Siegler. I was a prosecutor for over 20 years. From the creator of Law & Order comes the hit true crime series, Cold Justice. There are so many cold cases out there that still need to be solved. Every Saturday, follow Kelly as she takes real cases from cold to closed. What you will always see on Cold Justice is real. To get the guilty person put away, there's not a better feeling in the whole world if you're a law

enforcement. Cold Justice returns July 22nd at 8, 7 central on Oxygen, the new network for crime. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories, and you heard me right. Orenthal James Simpson, O.J. Simpson, a.k.a. The Juice, a.k.a. Murder Defendant, has been set free by a Nevada Paroles Board. And at the beginning, it looked as if things were going Simpson's way. All the parole board members seemed to be yucking it up. Two of them did manage to keep a straight face during all the laughter. Korda and Jackson managed not to laugh along with Simpson and his jokes while the rest of the room cracked up. That did not give me a good

feeling, Art Harris, when I saw the pardon and parole board members laughing and joking and yucking it up with Simpson. That bode ill. Nancy, he was rambling on in a way that belied what he had promised the parole board he would do and be, you know, in terms of getting alcohol rehab and said he wasn't at all, had a problem with substance abuse. I mean, he went on when he did not need to talk. It was a perfect setup to reject him and they ignored all that. Yeah, it seems to me that they had their decision made before they even came in. Absolutely. It seems to me that they basically left the room, had a cup of coffee, had a TT break, washed their hands, and came back in and rendered their decision.

They had written notes. All right? So I wonder when those written notes were prepared. What, maybe last night? I don't know. But I do commend Korda and Jackson for not laughing along with Simpson and his apparent attempts at humor during all of this. Another thing that disturbed me was that he never took responsibility for the armed robbery. He never did. He blamed everybody but himself. He says things like, I would never, ever pull a gun on anybody. What about a knife? That was my question. I would never use a weapon

on anybody. Really? Because I saw the picture of Nicole Brown where he pled guilty after beating her in the face. When he said he had never been arrested until age 46, I guess he forgot about the guilty plea to beating her. And he was arrested, of course, for the double murder art and when i heard connie busby the chairman of the pro board say they were ruling out all the bad acts from 95 from the civil conviction to the criminal case then it was a done deal for me i knew that they were uh that they were uh on the road to letting him go home free i thought they were too as far as him but what what did it for me art was not that because he never did take responsibility for the armed robbery. He lied through his teeth the whole time.

What did it for me was the judges, I guess you could call them parole board members, all laughing and yucking it up with Simpson. Let's go out to the lines, Art. Susie from Greenwich with us. Hi, Susie. What do with us. Hi Susie. What do you think about OJ Simpson on the loose? Well actually I don't think he's on the loose. I'm happy actually he's getting out because I think nine years over nine years was too long for what he was convicted of for this crime. So I think he did justify himself as well as his family

and his lawyer with the letters and the things his daughter has to say and a lot of times what I notice is we keep bringing up the things that happened in the past for what happened with Nicole and the other gentleman but

these are two separate crimes you know people have spoke about before. So I think for this crime, he did his time, and hopefully he'll contribute to go into society and move on with his life. I have a question for you. You do know that his sentence was 33 years, correct? He has not done his time. He has done the bare minimum of his time.

They said that, you know, the first lady that spoke, they said that he's eligible for 50% of his time, you know, after serving the nine-plus years. So that's why I agree that he did his time for this crime. And I think that he can, you know, show other people based on his experience in there and not having any write-ups or any problems in the jail that he's a role model. And we have to, I guess, separate the two crimes in our mind. I think a lot of people hold on to that, the past crime, and they think that they want to, like one of the members of the jurors that she said, that they think that they gave him more time, like 33 years, because they wanted to convince him for killing his wife. And we have to remember, it's two separate things. I am very aware of it being two separate things. And apparently the parole board agrees with you.

Also with me, Rhonda in Port Orchard. Hi, Rhonda. Thank you for calling in. What's your question? Well, I don't really have a question. I'm really appalled and sad at what happened. He didn't have to really serve much time for what he did. I want to go backwards, or should I say forwards?

I think you should have Fred Goldman back on. I don't get your channel here anymore. They took it off of Dish Network, but I just want to say that I read your posts, and going forward, I think Fred Goldman should take OJ back to court and make him pay monthly checks

to him so OJ can remember Ronald Goldman. Rhonda, I want to address what you just said. Don't hang up, Rhonda. The reports are that the whole time he's been behind bars, he has been a signing machine, signing autographs, signing pictures, signing whatever he could sign to make money. And this is what happens with the Golemans.

What happens is they find out he's signing items somewhere, and he's taking cash and putting it under the table, in other words, in his pocket. And before the sheriff can be alerted and get there, it's over. And when you're pocketing $15, $20, $50, $100 a signature, as a lot of people charge for their signatures, their autographs, that's a fair bit of money. On top of the thousands of dollars he gets every month from his NFL pension, which cannot be touched under the law.

So I don't think Goldman, Ron's parents, are ever going to see any of that judgment. And I guess what this means for me today, Rhonda, is that the entire civil jury, the trial, where we heard so much evidence and that jury's decision really didn't amount to a hill of beans. And that's very disappointing for me, for this Nevada Parole Board to just say, well, we're not going to even look at that. I'm with you. I'm very disheartened. I'm very disheartened. So, Rhonda, how do you think Goldman should go about getting any money out of Simpson? You take him back to court and you get him the judge to award that he has to write out monthly checks. I don't care if it's a dollar or a hundred dollars or five hundred dollars a month, but he should be paying them something so the court can set up that he has to write Fred Goldman's family a check every month.

You know what? That would make this man remember. You're right. You're right. I can only pray there are no more victims because Nicole Brown lived through hell to stay there with her children in the home. She was beaten and beaten and beaten, threatened, humiliated, the works. She was calling a battered women's center just hours before she was murdered. And then she was murdered. And it's like nobody even really remembers that and

today a a Nevada parole board confirmed that by saying those arrests and that civil verdict against Simpson simply would not be considered. Thank you for calling, Rhonda. I'm glad I'm not the only one feeling this way. Sometimes I think that, you know, I'm in Alice in Wonderland and everything's upside down and I'm the only one standing straight up. With me right now is Dr. Bethany Marshall, acclaimed psychologist out of California. Dr. Bethany, I'm really glad you're here because maybe you can help me figure out why I feel so bad right now. Well, this hearing was so disturbing. The things you mentioned, they were shucking it up. It seems like OJ Simpson was trying to

manipulate them through humor. I feel that the things that OJ Simpson said was sort of trite, shallow, stereotyped, rehearsed, like a small child that gives mommy a little card for Mother's Day and thinks he's given her the world. He really overvalued what he's done in jail and what he had to offer to the parole board. I think that he said that he lived a conflict-free life, which is a lie. So he's lying to the parole board. And they sat there as if he was not lying to them. He took no responsibility for the crime. But basically, he had too much to drink. He'd been at a wedding. He was just going to get his own stuff. Nine years, Nancy, and he's still continuing the offending pattern by lying, manipulating, and failing to assume responsibility for what he did.

Yeah, I mean, I wrote down a few of the quotes. Alan Duke, are you with me? Yes, I am. Alan with me. Art Harris is with me, two-time Emmy Award winning journalist. Alan Duke, my partner. Jackie, my partner with me. Dr. Bethany Marshall is with us. Alan, I don't know. I can't really identify the feeling I have right now. I think that it is reminding me of the times in court when I'd get a bad ruling, and I thought that a guilty person would go free, and maybe it was my fault.

Maybe I didn't make the right argument. Maybe I didn't question a witness the right way, and I would be galvanized to just keep trying and trying and trying harder and harder. But knowing what we know, knowing that Simpson did commit the double murders, knowing that he did do this armed robbery, and hearing him today say things like, I'm not interested in interviews. I lead a conflict-free life. Things like, I would never pull a weapon I was going to get my property it was not his property

there may have been a couple of photos in there of his first wife and a few other pictures but over 98 percent of those items have been verified as not his property. And when I heard the parole official ask him, what were you thinking? Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Like it was a big joke that he and his buddies go pull a gun on people. It just made me sick to my stomach. What were you thinking? Well, he apologized and expressed regret for a poor decision,

but you're right. He was hoodwinked, he said, by these security men. He was misguided, and I don't think he really, really accepted responsibility. But as far as feelings, it sort of feels like it felt back in the 90s. You know, we're back to the 90s, right? Is this post-traumatic stress syndrome from the OJ verdict in the double murders? That's kind of the deja vu I'm feeling. I mean, Alan, did you notice that he never admitted that he did anything wrong?

He never once said, I did this and I was wrong. And he acknowledged that he had no empathy. He never once said, I did this and I was wrong. And he acknowledged that he had no empathy. That was the interesting thing that he had to take the empathy course while incarcerated so he could learn what it was like for his victim to have a gun pointed in his face. But he wasn't very empathetic when he talked about having empathy. that's what was so interesting to me. Yeah. You know, another thing, Art Harris, he said, I never had a substance problem. I've never had a substance problem. He looked at the parole board members and said that, Art Harris. You know different.

One of the many lies, Nancy. I broke a big story about his cocaine problem that he got it from and did it with his limo driver, did it with some relatives. I mean, these were people on the record, on camera, and I'm thinking, gosh, do they remember anything? And he's lying straight to their faces, no substance abuse, no alcohol problem. I mean, this is someone who, it's Party City. I have a conversation that he was in with someone before he went to jail, bragging that he was going to get off and invite this guy to Miami to party because, quote, Miami is my town. And the whole attitude here, it flashes me back like Alan to that, to the trial and the feeling of what?

What happened? That was the trial of the century, so-called. This is the parole of the century, Nancy. You know what, everybody? We are taking your calls in the aftermath of this parole board's ruling. With me right now, Kevin in Ohio. Kevin, thanks so much for calling in. Hi, dear.

What do you think about the ruling? I'm glad to see, you know, this man finally, you know, he did his time. I'm glad he's free. I just hope everyone stops crucifying this man. You think OJ's been crucified? Yeah. Really? I mean, how many years has he been?

Because he looks alive and well to me, and he's got a ton of money. He walked free on a double murder. Yeah. he's got a ton of money he walked free on a double murder yeah he has had a string of mansions and beautiful girlfriends fancy cars designer clothes he got busted on a robbery an armed robbery he did the minimum amount of time and now he's walking free how is that crucifying him. What money did he give away? The civil suit. It was court ordered. You think he gave money to Nicole's parents? He had to pay restitution to her parents. Yeah, well, he never paid it.

So what money are you talking about he gave away? He never paid Ron Goldman's parents either after killing their kid. He didn't kill them. He was found innocent. He was found innocent. He didn't kill them. Well, you're the one talking about he gave he gave money away what money are you talking about the money i was supposed to i mean he lost everything all his endorsements and all that uh-huh uh-huh so you can't identify any money he gave away not off the top of my head i am sorry about that but so i mean the man okay and so the how do you say that oj simpson

has been crucified he just got out at the minimum amount of time for pulling an armed robbery the way the media detects them i mean even most people you know especially white people they want to keep painting them as an evil man. Still don't know what you're talking about. He pled guilty to beating his wife. He admitted to that in an Alford plea. There were photos of her that are in evidence with a bruised and battered face. He was arrested on double murder. He managed to get an acquittal on that. I would say that's a pretty good deal

for him. He was acquitted. So how can you say that people are against him? Well, you're against him. Yeah, I'm against him because he's a double murderer. But you're saying he's been crucified. The way I see it, he's been given every single benefit he can

squeeze out of the justice system. He beat his wife for years. He admits that. The police were called to his house time after time after time for him beating Nicole. They end up dead. He's acquitted for that. And then he pulls an armed robbery.

O.J. helped my family out a lot. I can't say anything back. O.J. what? He helped my family out a lot. My grandpa made a lot of money on his football game. Okay, well, thank you for calling in and good luck to you, sir. To Dr. Bethany Marshall. Bethany, I think I need a therapist right now. Can you help me figure out what that guy was saying? I was very confused about what he was saying. It was interesting that he threw in at the end that he made a lot of money his family made money off of oj simpson so is this why he's defending oj see one of the things your callers are doing the ones that are supporting oj simpson they're acting like you can surgically remove that part of his personality that's sociopathic and homicidal. He did commit this double murder. And what the parole board was talking about in terms of their criteria, meaning that they're not going to take in the prior bad acts into account, that's a legal concept.

But from a psychological perspective, somebody who commits a double homicide after beating his wife for years, then refuses to pay the money that he owes as a part of a civil judgment is somebody who lacks a conscience. That is a chronic trait that's going to continue with him through to the end of his life. So I'm afraid that what we're going to see now that he's been paroled is that he's going to recidivate. He's going to go back to the same kinds of behaviors he had before. So, you know, maybe this is a story we're going to keep talking about. Well, I hope not. That's all I can say, because if we're talking about it in the future, that will mean he

is re-offended. There is one person I felt very badly for today. I felt really badly for his daughter, Arnelle. Now, Art Harris, you're very, very familiar with Simpson's family. And I was getting texts. My phone fell off the coffee table with people going, why is she defending the man that murdered her mother?

Nicole was not Arnell's mother. That's right. So give me a little background on the family, Art. You know it better than most people. Well, you had his first wife and you had the children by her, and then he married Nicole. So, you know, this is someone who, you know,

is being defended by people who is, whether they're his blood father by Nicole or by another woman, they see him and they have to live in denial. Nancy, classic children of abuse, children of alcoholics and substance abusers. It's like Stockholm syndrome. You identify, you support your prison guard. And so no matter what OJ does, they, you know, how do you, they can't live with themselves. It would destroy them.

I think internally maybe Dr. Marshall would agree if they were to truly embrace that fact that he killed their mother. I think about Arnelle is that I think she was telling the truth as she believes it. I found her to be sincere. I think she loves Simpson. That is her father. He's all they have left and clearly has not accepted or

acknowledged that he killed Nicole and Ron. Speaking of Arnell, listen to Simpson's daughter as she defends him. Yes, I am Arnell Simpson, my dad's oldest child. Welcome and feel free to speak. Thank you. I'm a little nervous, so bear with me.

So are we. I know, it's a lot. As you know, I'm here on behalf of my family for the purpose of expressing what we believe is the true character of my father. No one really knows how much we have been through this ordeal in the last nine years. Excuse me. My experience with him is that he's like my best friend and my rock. And my rock.

And as a family, we recognize he is not the perfect man, but he's clearly a man and a father who has done his best to behave in a way that speaks to his overall nature and character, which is always to be positive no matter what. He has spent the last nine years in Lovelock, as we all know, and has been a perfect inmate following all the rules and making the best of the situation, which is truly amazing to me under the circumstances. The choice that he made nine years ago that

resulted in the sentencing were clearly inappropriate and wrong and counterproductive to what he was trying to achieve. As a family, we were all there to celebrate a wedding of a very good friend. As a starter, I can honestly say my dad recognizes that he took the wrong approach and could not handle the situation. He could have handled the situation differently. My siblings, I and family know that he didn't make the right decision on that day, but we know that his intentions were not to go in and to just make the wrong decision at the wrong time. Throughout this ordeal, we have remained close we have stayed strong and I for myself am grateful to God for giving us the

strength to get through this last nine years and to stay positive always no matter what and a lot of that is because of him. So on behalf of my family, my brother, my sister, an aunt, an uncle, his friends, we just want him to come home. We really do. We want him to come home we really do we want him to go home and I know in my heart that he is very humbled throughout the situation this has been hard let me be honest this has been really truly hard and there's no right or wrong way to TRULY ART. AND THERE'S NO RIGHT OR WRONG WAY TO EXPLAIN HOW TO HANDLE

THIS, BUT WE DO KNOW THAT, OR I KNOW THAT, HE IS REMORSEFUL. HE TRULY IS REMORSEFUL, AND WE JUST WANT HIM TO COME HOME SO THAT WE CAN MOVE FORWARD FOR US, QUIETLY, BUT TO MOVE FORWARD. move forward for us quietly but to move forward so i thank you for allowing me to be here this morning i thank you out to the lines to theresa reaction to oj simpson walking free theresa i am physically nauseated you know theresa Teresa, I'm with you. As I was watching it, it was

like a bad case of deja vu because I will admit Simpson was very convincing. He was even charming in a way toward the parole board members. And I feel very strongly that they had made up their mind before they even went in there. The laughing and the joking during this was, to me, highly inappropriate. I feel like his charm thing is just a manipulation tactic. He is very good at manipulation manipulation and people see that as charm and i think that's what disgusts me so much me too because as i was listening to him he's a master manipulator i know for a fact what he was saying is a lie he keeps saying that was my stuff. They quote stuff he's talking about.

Pete Rose baseballs, Joe Montana lithographs, some Simpson memorabilia that he had sold that was no longer his. There were a couple of pictures in there of his family. But to hear him say it, he just went in there had a friendly conversation and took back what was his you can hear the recording of him screaming at cursing and them when he went in there to rob them saying he never had a substance abuse problem he never had an alcohol problem he went on and on about how he had missed time with his children. Teresa, what about his wife? What about Nicole?

What has she missed? I have a question, too, about the drinking and stuff. off, why was the parole board satisfied with the fact that he did not take the AA classes like they told him he needed to take? How is that all right? And yes, what about Nicole? There is no coming back for her. There's no second chance for her. I don't understand the second chance thing in our country either. People lose lives and they never had a second chance. You know, Dr. Bethany, now that she is saying that, she's right. They seem to just, when it came out that he had not taken that AA class they told him to take, that was all I ever heard of it. What happened?

I kept waiting for them to bring that up. There was absolutely no consequence. He did not comply with the AA class. And then he acts like the empathy class is so important. It has changed him as an individual. And then he goes on to say that he has helped to institute church services in the prison because now he has recovered his Christianity. And what I thought from a clinical perspective, Nancy, is the grandiosity of the sociopath. So if you keep in mind the criteria for sociopathy, glib, superficial, charming,

they play by their own rules rather than the rules of society, callous, remorseless. And so you could see in the way he talked about the church services, how grandiose he was. He was really helping people in the prison, and he was really helping them through his athletic program. And you could see how he was overvaluing what good he had done in the prison system to the parole board. And they believed him. That's what's so shocking. I agree with you. I think they went into this with their minds made up.

Bethany, I don't think they were even listening. I think they already had their minds made up and they were sitting there drawing on a doodle pad. Let's go out to the lines. Flora in Rhode Island. Hi, Flora. What is your question, dear? Thank you for calling. She was right.

Nicole was right from the beginning that he would skate on anything he did. She knew him better than anybody else. And that's exactly what he did. He skated once again. I can't stand looking at the man. You know what, Flora? I very rarely will have a kind of a physical reaction to just looking at somebody. But I've got the same thing, just to look at him.

And I know all the pain he caused so many people and is still causing. Just looking at him, fawning and joking and sucking up to the parole board. It was more than I could take. They were saying how he had this exemplary prison record, but people don't realize he had the money. So he had all these little guys around him doing his bidding, and he would pay for their commissary stuff so he just kind of skated through prison too you know what you're right flora in rhode island i agree with you i

can hardly stand to even look at him calling me now flora please call us back is mary from florida hi mary thank you for calling in what do you make Simpson released? I feel really bad that he's going to be let out, and there are going to be other people now possibly in danger. We don't know because we don't know OJ. He is a psychopath. He acts like a psychopath. I feel bad because he did get away with murder. Nicole told the 911 operator, if I can quote her, he's going to kill me.

He's here now again. Please come. He's going to beat the shit out of me. Do you remember those calls? It just kills me inside. And they're so heart-wrenching because something didn't happen that needed to happen to protect her, and that didn't happen that needed to happen to protect her. And that didn't happen.

And to protect those kids that their mom would be there for them. And I feel real bad about that. And I feel like when OJ was in this hearing today, he sat there and damn near got pissed off with the one guy asking him about where's his stuff now. Do you have it is it your i don't know what they were saying because like um i saw him i saw him pull the face i saw what nicole saw that angry look yeah and he and he also spoke to the board like that but you know

it didn't matter because they already they already had their minds made up take a listen to this 911 emergency if you get someone over here now to 325 gretna green he's back please okay what does he look like he's oj simpson i think you know his record could you just take somebody over here okay what is he doing there he just drove drove up again. He just drove up again? Wait a minute, what kind of car is he in? He's in a white Bronco, but first of all, he broke the back door down to get in. Okay, wait a minute, what's your name? Nicole Simpson.

Okay, is he the sportscaster or whatever? Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Wait a minute, we're sending the police. What is he doing? Is he threatening you? He's going nuts.

Okay, has he threatened you in any way, or is he just harassing you? You're going to hear him in a minute. He's about to come in again. Okay, just stay on the line. I don't want to stay on the line. He's going to beat the shit out of me. Wait a minute. Wait, just stay on the line so we can know what's going on until the police get there, okay? Okay, Nicole? Uh-huh. Just a moment. Does he have any weapons? I don't know.

Okay. He went home and now he's back. Okay. My kids are up there sleeping and I don't want anything to happen. Okay. Has he hit you today or no? No. Okay, you don't need any paramedics or anything?

Uh-uh. Okay, you just want him to leave. He broke my door. He broke the whole back door in. And then he left and he came back? And he came and he practically knocked my upstairs door down, but he pounded it. And then he screamed and hollered and I tried to get him out of the bedroom because the kids were sleeping in there. Mm-hmm.

Okay. And then he wanted somebody's phone number and I gave him my phone book and was going to, or I put my phone book down to right, put it right down the phone number that he wanted. Mm-hmm. And then he took my phone book and was better i gave put my phone book down the right just write down the phone number that he wanted and then he took my phone book with all my stuff The kids are with you. Just stay on the line, okay? Mary in Florida, thank you for calling. And I know exactly what you mean. Mary Ellen in Pennsylvania. Mary Ellen, hello. Reaction to OJ Simpson walking free.

I am not surprised that he got out, got away from it, because I think Nevada just wanted him out of their state. And I think it's messed up. He should still be in there. He was supposed to get 33 years. You know, I keep saying that, and everybody looks at me like an alien with three heads. He was sentenced, Mary Ellen, you're correct, to 33 years. He has served nine.

And I'm stunned in a way that no one wants to hear that, but I agree with you. I'm not surprised either. I duked it out with Dan Abrams, my buddy, on ABC's GMA the other morning. He was insistent that Simpson would walk free. I was insistent he should not walk free. But I can tell you this. It ain't over yet. I know Lady Justice has taken a black eye.

But this is not the end of this story. You know, Art, I feel just stunned. I feel like I got the kick in the stomach that I did when he walked free on the double murders. That doesn't even make sense, but that's how I feel. Nancy, I hear you, and I do too. It's funny. I remember the crowd outside the courthouse, jubilant, and you know, when something like that is happening, and everybody around you is happy, and you know something very bad just happened, and something wrong, it is hard, And so I empathize with all these callers who are just going through, you know, flashback to an injustice. And, you know, I can't

help but think about this was a setup because when you hear that parole official say, as OJ is giving his litany of what happened, well, Mr. Simpson, everything you're saying is not quite what the facts or the record reflects. And he ignored it. And it didn't matter that he was lying to them. Did you notice that? I did, Art. I noticed it.

And I got to tell you, my stomach actually hurts. I noticed it, and I got to tell you, my stomach actually hurts. I noticed it, and I noticed most everyone in that room laughing along with him as he made jokes. And, you know, another issue bothered me. One of the victims is now deceased, Beardsley, and one of his family members said, you know, yeah, he's going along with O.J. because he knows he wouldn't be anything. He wouldn't be famous if he wasn't friends with O.J., you know. So it's that whole shaming and bullying thing thing with victims you've got a celebrity defendant and everybody wants to be his friend i guess that includes the nevada parole board

but you know what i know what happened i know what happened to nicole i know what? I know what happened. I know what happened to Nicole. I know what happened to Ron Goldman. I know what happened to these victims. And they may all want to look the other way and let Simpson loose. But that does not change the truth. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend.