Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Special Update: Fugitive teacher Tad Cummins & kidnapped student sighted in OKC

Episode Date: March 31, 2017

Fugitive teacher Tad Cummins and kidnapped student Elizabeth Thomas shopped for food at a Oklahoma City Walmart two days after they disappeared from Columbia, Tennessee, according to newly-revealed security camera images. Nancy Grace and Alan Duke discuss with Jason Whatley, the lawyer for Elizabeth’s family, what the photos tell us about where Cummins may have taken the 15-year-old girl. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Cummins used cash to purchase food items but did not buy anything else of significance. Elizabeth Thomas was brand new to the Cullioca School in Murray County. She started as a freshman this year, entering the public school system for the very first time. She's 15. He's 50. This is Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. TBI says that Cummins was a teacher. A student reported seeing Cummins kissing Elizabeth in his classroom in late January. Police arrested Elizabeth's mom, Kimberly Thomas, last year.

They charged her with five counts of child abuse and neglect. Cummins told two students he's a father figure to Elizabeth. He stole my daughter from me. There is breaking news in the search for schoolgirl Elizabeth Thomas. A major break has just gone down. Believe it or not, the two, Elizabeth Thomas, the kidnapped girl, and the pervy teacher, Tad Cummins, have been spotted as far away as Oklahoma. Joining me right now, a special guest with us at Crime Stories,

Jason Watley, who has been in this from the beginning, representing Elizabeth's family. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Also with me, Alan Duke. I'm going to go straight to Jason, a veteran trial lawyer in Tennessee. Jason, what do we know? Well, what we know that today several images were surfaced and released by the TBI,

all confirmed, and when you see them it's obvious that it's Tad Cummings and Elizabeth Thomas. That came out today from a Walmart in Oklahoma City. It was from March 15th, which is two days after she left. We don't know what time yet the video was taken, so we don't know if it's morning, afternoon, or whatever, but we know it's them. And another thing we don't know, Nancy, we don't know why it took so long to get this. We know that the TBI got this information about midweek. That's the most that we know, or at least the tip came in midweek.

We don't know when they had the pictures. But from the investigatory side, we know that law enforcement didn't even have the tip until midweek of this week. And, of course, this makes it very old. And that's the first tangible proof that we have that they're together. It gives us a direction as well. Well, I mean, it's not really telling me a lot that I don't already know. I know they're together. I know he took her. But in a way, in a sense, it's giving me a wealth that I don't already know. I know they're together. I know he took her. But in a way, in a

sense, it's giving me a wealth of information. I know now they absolutely have altered their appearance. Alan, let's go through. What do you see in the pictures? It appears to me, Nancy, that in fact, Tad Cummins, as we had predicted, has colored his whiskers, darkened his hair to make perhaps himself look younger and different. And it looks also to me that her hair is now red. Of course, maybe Jason Watley could tell us if that is her more recent hair coloring, but it does look like she's colored her hair. Is that right?

Well, it looks that way. We have not confirmed that. Clearly, he has. I mean, you can look at his goatee color. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Gentlemen, have you all both of you gone mad?

Her hair is a different color. Her hair is red. Her hair was not red when she left. It was blonde. Okay? So I don't know how much you know about women's hair products, but she's colored her hair. There. I'm the expert in hair color. I've been blonde since I was 16.

Now, what else do we see in the picture? Still appears to be wearing the same black leggings that we saw her in on the last day that we had a photo of her. And also she's wearing a plaid shirt, which seems to be her style, an oversized men's plaid shirt. Whether that was one she took with her or a Tadmins shirt i don't know but that's how she's dressed yeah it looks to be maybe it's the same shirt i don't know but it's clearly uh a men's or an oversized shirt that she's wearing certainly the same style that she was wearing when she left of note i just want to remind uh your listeners here that uh when tad cummins left one of the first videos we got was from our Walmart here in Columbia

that showed him on the aisle purchasing hair dye. I don't know if you remember that or not. And then there was this story that, oh, no, he's purchasing that for his mother-in-law and this and that. Well, clearly, maybe he did, but he was also purchasing it for himself. And obviously, not green beans anymore. Look at that picture. I remember it, Jason. I remember it, Jason. I remember it.

I was trying to restrain myself and not interrupt you when I was about to say, you know, everyone kept saying the hair dye was coincidental and tangential to the kidnap. B.S., all right? And sure enough, this is what he got. And I guarantee you, somewhere he got red hair dye, too. I wish it hadn't taken so long to come out, this video, but that's the hand we're dealt. I was focusing on her shirt.

I do not think it's the same shirt she had on when she left, although they were both plaid. This one looks really loose, and it looks like it belongs to Tad Cummins. I think she's wearing one of his shirts. I mean, I don't know where else they shop, but I doubt they're spending money on clothes. Nancy, I'm looking at the two photos now, the one from the surveillance when she left and the one, and I'm sure you have those in front of you, too. I don't know. I mean, you know, far be it for me to disagree with Nancy Grace on this,

but let me just say that as I look at it, here's my thought just for what it's worth. I think she's in the same clothes that when she left, which means if that's the case that she hasn't changed or she changed back into her old clothes after leaving Monday morning, going all day Tuesday, and this is at some time on Wednesday. So that would be very telling if she's in the same clothes. I look at her hair. I have three daughters, and I know what their hair looks like when it's not washed. Her hair looks not washed, not kept. So it looks to me, my theory is at least, in the one picture I'm seeing here,

and her picture looks different depending on which picture you're looking at, the two together versus walking in a single file. The color of the shirt looks different. But the bottom line is I feel like that they're not in a place of comfort wherever they are. They're not staying in a house or hotel. But, you know, I don't know that. This is my speculation, though, as I look at these pictures

and what her condition looks like to me. I got to agree with you. I was thinking about the likelihood that she would last be spotted in one plaid shirt and then be in a different one, and that's a low likelihood. I think it's just the color and the shading of the photos that I have. I think you may be right. I think she's wearing the same shirt. She's got on the same black leggings, and her hair looks greasy and unwashed, which leads me to think they have not been in a hotel.

That means that they are in the car. I wonder if this Walmart has surveillance of their parking lot so we can figure out what car they got out of. I'm sure, and we're hoping that we get more information on that from law enforcement, and we just haven't gotten that yet. But what we have received information on is the fact that they were buying food items. Now, I don't know what kind of food items yet, but we want to find out, because that's going to tell us, are they in the car, are they camping?

If they're buying canned goods, for example, you're not opening a can of pork and beans inside a Nissan Rogue? I don't think. And so, you know, that's going to tell us something as well. Another question I have, Nancy, is what was the process whereby Walmart finally produced this video? How soon did Walmart know about the tip and that belief that they've been seeing? Did it take this long for Walmart to produce the video? Obviously, I don't know that. I don't want to cast any stones yet towards Walmart. But my goodness, we've got to get these images out sooner.

This is March 15th. From this point, you know, it's a day's drive from Columbia to Oklahoma City. And then from Oklahoma City, it's to the rest of the western United States. They could be anywhere. And I'll remind you, Nancy, that early on, and I think I had said this, and I've said this to the media before, but one of our student witnesses that we've talked to talked to Elizabeth before she left, and Elizabeth had told her that they're headed west.

And she had told her that. And so this is consistent with what Elizabeth told her friend. I didn't realize that, but all along I have wondered if Tad Cummins was not headed to where. It wouldn't be odd to have a child bride and where there are, as they say, multiple wives, and that is commonplace. Because if he went somewhere where polygamy is not really outlawed, even though it's against the black and white letter of the law, he could blend in that way and he could marry under those, in my mind, illegal circumstances,

again, even with a wife back home in Tennessee. Which she's filing for divorce today, by the way. Jill Cummins, just so you know, Jill Cummins either filed today already or is in the process of filing for divorce. You know, my heart really goes out to that woman. I feel so bad for her. Of course I feel awful for Elizabeth because she's going to look back on this if she manages to live through it, and it's going to be the worst thing that ever happened to her.

But the wife that trusted him and gave all the years of her life to him, I mean, they've been together since 1985, for Pete's sake. How does she move on? Yeah, exactly. So what does this mean that they're headed they're in oklahoma where could they be headed look at the map alan duke well i think utah you were just talking about i've actually made that drive from that same area through oklahoma city then you go into the north texas pan, you know, north of Lubbock. You can go on up into Colorado, or you could go down to New Mexico, or on up to Utah. I've made that ride. It's easy just to slip under the radar because it's not very populated. When you say she was headed west,

what more do we know about that, Jason? I wish we knew more. The witness who told us that actually said that she had been told of a specific place at one point and sort of then waffled on that point and then said, well, it was out west and acted as though she didn't remember. I'll have to assume she didn't, but I'll just tell you as a trial lawyer, I don't assume a whole lot. You know, so I think some of these kids are scared to talk, but I just hope and pray that they'll speak up if she said anything about a specific place, obviously we're going to be following back up with that witness

and any others that we think might have information. But my goodness, it's a scary thought. Well, what was her specific place? What was her specific place that she said? She claimed she did not remember. The same witness also said that originally Elizabeth had a plan of a person who would help hide them, but that didn't work out, quote, unquote, and that she had to go with another plan. And so this was all known weeks before she left by one of her friends.

What time of the day or night was this surveillance video taken? Do you know, Jason? Nancy, we don't. I want to know that because think about this. Either way, we don't know what they did starting on the morning of March the 13th until the 15th, but we know it's a one-day drive. So either they took their time getting to Oklahoma City or they got to Oklahoma City and decided to stay there for some period of time. So I want to know what time of the day it was. So

if they're there at midday in Walmart, that tells me that they hung around Oklahoma City for a while. Well, I know this. They haven't been in a hotel because she hasn't lost her hair. Yeah, that's my thought too. I mean, it looks really bad when you look at the close-up. Yeah, but where was she when she colored it? Because she didn't waste any time to do that. She could have been in the bathroom at a McDonald's, for all we know. She could, or maybe they stayed in the hotel that first night, and she colored her hair, and maybe they stayed somewhere

for that purpose of coloring her hair and his. They did have that head start, so there's that. Nobody really realized they were missing that first night, right? Well, yes. The first night they did, absolutely. On Monday night, on the 13th, that was when it was reported to law enforcement. The Amber Alert didn't go out until Tuesday the 14th. And that was, I've got to tell you, there may be some holes in the Amber Alert system

because it took a while because they had to get charges together and all of that, and they weren't even sure if they were together. And the way Tennessee kidnapping law is written, there's some real holes in the statute. And so we had all kinds of issues right then, and it took about 24 hours to get that Amber Alert out. Well, maybe she could have gone someplace in the first eight hours, because it was eight hours before.

Maybe that was one of the first things they did was go to the sink and do the coloring. I'm just thinking about the scenario about wherever she colored her hair. I really don't give a flying pig. What I'm trying to figure out is which way they're headed and the mode of travel. For instance, is there a security camera? Is there surveillance in the parking lot? Did they leave together? Are they walking in and out of places separately so they won't be spotted and then meeting up, say, on aisle number 10?

Are they using cash? Does he have a credit card under a different name? Questions like that that might help me figure out what they're doing. The reason I asked was a day or night. Are they traveling at night and coming out at night and staying hidden during the day? I'm just trying to figure out. Listen, the only way you can catch him is to try to think

like him. And I'm just trying to ferret through the information we've got to make it usable. You know what I mean? Well, you know, I'm looking at a map right now. So Alan was right. From Oklahoma City, what's interesting about the interstate system, there's not, at least if you want to go northwest to Colorado or Utah, there's no interstate to take you there.

You go due west to Amarillo, which is above Lubbock. Then you continue on I-40 going due west to Albuquerque. Then you continue going due west into Arizona. There's not really many options. In fact, at Albuquerque, you'd have to turn back east on the interstate that goes to Denver, and it kind of winds its way up to Denver. So my point is this. I think their ultimate destination is somewhere along that corridor, that I-40 corridor. Of course, it ends right at Las Vegas, maybe south of Las Vegas in that area. Let me ask you another question in that vein.

Alan, which Walmart was this in Oklahoma? What city was it? What suburb was it? What do we know? Nancy, this was a Walmart on East I-240 Service Road in Oklahoma City. And by the way, it was in the afternoon of March 15th. Yeah we can interpret that a couple of different ways. They're not afraid to come out in the daytime hours even wearing the same clothes they were wearing when she left. They are traveling along an interstate and I imagine if this was one of those interstate access roads that it was visible from the interstate. Now, on that interstate, where do you go on that interstate? What does it lead to? We know that's where they were.

I mean, did you go to Oklahoma City intentionally, or if you're passing through going west? There's other ways. If they were headed to, for example, the Denver area, anywhere like that, you wouldn't go through Oklahoma City. It is on the way going west through ultimately New Mexico, Arizona, Southern California. That's where it goes.

It's an east-west interstate system. And you really have to go out of your way and start going due north or due south to deviate from that path. And so it wouldn't have made sense. If he was going to Dallas, for example, they would have gotten off of I-40, gotten on I-30 to go to Dallas. And I want to make another point on what you just said, Nancy. You know, here they are.

Amber Alert's issued. He has to know it. This is a smart guy. He knows that the Amber Alert's out there. He's being brazen. He's out there, open and obvious. And he kept his goatee, which, think about that. Isn't the first thing you do is you shave your goatee, if that's every picture of you?

But he didn't. He colored it. Is it because he thought it made him look younger? I mean, what is it? Why would he keep the goatee? It's just interesting to me that he chose to go to the trouble of coloring it as opposed to shaving it. And maybe he thought somehow that we would have expected him to shave it. I don't know, but it's just another piece in this puzzle. Well, I got to tell you something, Jason. When I saw I still had the goatee, I thought, what? That would be the first thing I

would do is cut my hair, get a different hairstyle, and get rid of the goatee. I mean, she hasn't even changed her clothes, which also tells me she didn't bring along a lot of clothes from home. I mean, there are a lot of different assumptions that we can make based on what we're seeing in this one photo. That's what I'm saying. The Walmart is on the corridor that goes south. It's a bypass south of Oklahoma City. And I actually drove this last year.

And it will connect you with 40. You continue 40, as you said, toward Amarillo. But if you veer off at Elk City, this is exactly what I did because I drove from there up to Colorado. And it is a perfectly fine road, 80 mile an hour speed limit, all the way, pretty much all the way up there. And it wouldn't be very difficult for them to do. You don't have to stay on the interstate. So I'm saying maybe they went up toward Colorado and you can get lost in those mountains. Another thing that Jason and I were talking about, and I want to hear your thoughts on this, Alan, is what they bought. That was my first question.

What did they buy? For instance, if they're buying microwave. Various food. Yeah, but I mean what specifically? Say they bought microwave popcorn. Okay, well, that gives me a lot of information. They're either in a hotel or they have access to a microwave or they're staying with someone that's hiding them that has a microwave.

I mean, you can learn a lot from every single fact. The fact that they're there during the daytime brazenly. The fact that he's held on to his goatee. The fact that he bought her hair dye. The fact that she's wearing the very same clothes as if she doesn't have anything to change into. I mean, it all equals an answer. We just don't. We just don't have all the pieces of the puzzle. What else do you see, Jason? What can you decipher from it? Well, I'm looking here,

just a side note here, this Walmart's not far from the Will Rogers World Airport, just a thought. Also, as I'm looking at this, if I'm coming 40 from Little Rock area, which is where 40 takes off of Interstate 30, and I used to travel that a lot going to Dallas where my family's from, it splits. It goes 240. And, Alan, you said they were the one off of I-240, right? Yes, on the service road, I-240, just south of Oklahoma City. It's a long ways down. You take the split instead of going to downtown Oklahoma City,

which if you're going to bypass, that makes sense. It's probably a little faster. But it's a good ways down that bypass. So it's a little bit – you have to be a little bit intentional. But maybe they're just going around Oklahoma City and they stop there. I tend to think they were in the area already. They were staying in the area because, again, why were they there on the 15th, especially now, you're saying the afternoon of the 15th. In terms of other observations while Nancy, I just want to hear what they were driving.

I want to know if that Nissan Rogue still exists. Did they get rid of it? Did they get something else? And so I just don't know. I mean, I'm just my mind spinning with seeing these images for the first time. Well, another thing I'm looking at is their body language, and I know that's not anything that would hold up in a court of law, but I'm still looking. Do you notice the way she seems to be kind of following him around timidly? Yes.

Yes. If you look in the still images they've released, in both of them, one, she's right beside him, but she's looking at him, and she's looking at his eyes as if he's saying something, and she's listening and looking at him. The other one, she's walking behind him in almost a subservient way. I mean, that's just how it looks. And so, you know, that's consistent with a man who we believe was able to program her, had control over her.

I get so angry when I hear these people that even suggest that this is willful in the sense of two adults. Absolutely ridiculous, shameful that that would even be considered. She is under his control and has been under his control for some time. Remember, this is a girl who would go to lunch with him when she would tell her siblings, I don't want to go with him, but he would make ridiculous threats to her about school, and she would go anyway, and she would end up forcing herself to go because he had that kind of control over her.

So here she is following him around Walmart. This is a girl that could have, at any moment, she could have taken off and run to someone and gotten help or whatever, but he obviously has control over her. I don't know if you guys remember the case of the Groney children, Shasta Groney and her brother. They were abducted, and it all came to light when they were caught in a 7-Eleven. The little boy was killed, her brother. They were abducted and it all came to light when they were caught in a 7-11. The little boy was killed, her brother. I think it was Dylan Groney. And there's video of her following her kidnapper and her rapist, an adult male, following her around this convenience store as if it looked like it was his daughter. And he had been raping her little brother and her.

He killed the little brother. All this had happened, and she's walking along behind him and never says a word. I mean, you cannot expect children to voice their fears that way, especially when they're afraid of their captor. And I've got to tell you, I got so upset this week when I saw a comment someone had written under a story about Elizabeth that she wanted to go. Why are we worried about her? Why are we looking for her? Because she is a child.

She has no mother to take care of her. She's alone in this world, and she's with this guy. And my heart's just breaking. She will never be the same after this. There's no way. She may be in therapy if she lives through it, if it doesn't end in some crazy murder-suicide pact, but she'll never be the same no matter how much therapy she goes to.

This is going to damage her for life if she lives through it, Jason. Yeah, I agree. Let's assume we get her back today. This child's going to have to have intensive therapy. She's going to have to think about it. She can't go back to that school, obviously. She's going to have to be, every aspect of her life is going to have to be rethought and reworked. I mean, how do you even reintegrate into the home and feel safe and know that everything's okay?

I mean, it's just, this is something that's going to be very difficult. I've already talked to one of our best mental health professionals in town that we hope is going to come in and help us immediately when that day comes because we're going to need that kind of help. Listen, it's the way child molestation victims feel, and I know I've dealt with so many of them. They feel powerless, helpless, that nobody was there to stop what happened, and a lot of them live with an anger for the rest of their lives. It affects all of her future relationships, if she has any, with men and other people.

I mean, I just pray she gets out of this alive. That's my first prayer, and then I'll take it from there. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we have to take it one day at a time, and that's, you know, everything that we hope and pray for right now is just our safe return. Yesterday when there was the sighting, allegedly, in Memphis, the family was absolutely electric over this. And then to be told it wasn't them was a letdown of monumental proportions.

I talked to Anthony today. He was in tears when I talked to him about his daughter and the fact that he saw her for the first time. I was just weeping as I talked to him. We don't have a place as parents for those emotions. We shouldn't have to deal with those emotions of having your child taken. So I can't say even as a father of five how I would feel. I know how I think I would feel. I mean, I'd have an arm and posse together searching every nook and cranny of the country for this man.

And I'd probably have to be on all kinds of anti-anxiety medication just to function. So it was just a very difficult thing day by day. Today is particularly hard seeing finally a picture that she was with him and that truly they're not in the area, they're headed somewhere, and they're going to be hard to find. The very first thing that struck me is, thank God she's alive, followed by she dyed her hair red, followed by the way that she looks kind of timid and scared in the photo.

Yeah, and the way that Tad Cummins looks like he's in a foul mood. If you look at him, he certainly doesn't look like he's enjoying himself. So is it just because he's nervous? I mean, you know, every picture that we've seen so far of Tad Cummins, he seems to have a smile on his face or he's singing about another young girl's deep blue eyes or whatever. You know, that doesn't look like the happy-go-lucky Tad Cummins that everybody seems to think about when they think about the way he used to be.

With me is special guest Jason Watley, who is representing Elizabeth Thomas' family. Thank you to CrimeCon for sponsoring our podcast today. Go to CrimeCon.com and find out the latest on the biggest gathering of crime fighters and crime sleuths ever. June 9, June 11 in Indianapolis. Use code Nancy for 20% off. Jason, thank you. Our prayers and our search goes on. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend.

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