Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - SPECIAL WEEKEND CRIME STORIES UPDATE: HEATHER MACK HEADLINES AGAIN After Stuffing Dead Mom in Designer Suitcase @ Exotic Resort

Episode Date: July 9, 2022

A family vacation to Bali turns deadly. Sheila von Wiese-Mack is found bludgeoned to death inside a suitcase. The socialite's 25-year-old daughter Heather Mack and her 21-year-old then-boyfriend, Tommy Schaefer are charged and convicted by an Indonesian court. Police say Schaefer bludgeoned von Wiese-Mack with a bowl and then he and Mack stuffed her body into a suitcase and attempted to flee the scene. Heather Mack was pregnant at the time and gave birth to a daughter in prison. When she turned two, she was placed with a foster family in Bali. Now, Mack is back in prison this time in Illinois.   Mack said she was nervous about returning to the States, and what could happen to her daughter, once she is exposed to the media attention surrounding her mother. A judge has ruled the girl will remain with the Indonesian woman who raised her in Bali.    Joining Nancy Grace Today: Wendy Patrick - California prosecutor, author “Red Flags” www.wendypatrickphd.com 'Today with Dr. Wendy' on KCBQ in San Diego Dr. Jorey Krawczyn - Police Psychologist, Adjunct Faculty with Saint Leo University; Research Consultant with Blue Wall Institute, Author: Operation S.O.S. - Practical Recommendations to Help “Stop Officer Suicide”  bw-institute.com Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder, ColdCaseCrimes.org Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Featured on "The Piketon Massacre: Return to Pike County" on iHeartRadio Kristy Mazurek - Emmy Award-winning Investigative Reporter, President of Successful Strategies PR and Crisis Communications Firm       Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Does it never end with this woman? Do you remember the so-called suitcase killer aka also known as Heather Mack spoiled brat raised in the lap of luxury who attacked her mother so many times in their lux home. The neighbors knew police were up and down the street at all hours of the day or night with Heather Mack attacking her mother, who, trying to make peace with her daughter, takes daughter Heather Mack on an all-expense-paid trip to Bali. Well, she didn't make it back home. Let's just put it like that. She ended up dead, folded

up in a suitcase, oozing blood outside a five-star resort. And somehow, Heather Mack got away. Well, not for long. She and her boyfriend, both of them living off the dead mom, ended up in jail there in Bali. Somehow, she gets pregnant. Always a surprise with Heather Mack. Gives birth to baby Stella. In the latest twist, Heather Mack makes the headlines again and not in a good way.

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Heather Mack back in the news again. Now, this woman is not known for her wonderful mother-daughter relationship. So maybe this is a good thing. Joining me, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter Dave Mack. Why won't Heather Mack go away?

What's the latest? Heather Mack was released from an Indonesian prison in 2021 and deported back to the U.S. Before arriving in her home country, Mack said she was afraid to return to the U.S. because arriving in her home country, Mack said she was afraid to return to the U.S. because of what her daughter might learn. Mack was immediately arrested when she returned to Chicago and charged with conspiracy and obstruction of justice relating to her mother's murder. A fight brewed over who would have custody of the now seven-year-old Stella, a family friend of

Heather Mack's mother, filed for temporary custody, and the girl's paternal grandmother also made a bid for a relationship with the girl, as had Mack's cousins, Lisa Hellman. With her mother's arrest in the U.S., the girl went into foster care, and now a judge has ruled that the woman who raised the girl in Indonesia while Mack served time there will have temporary custody. The caretaker, Oshar Swartama, has reunited with the 7-year-old after the child's therapist told the judge that Estella, quote, perceives Swartama as her mother and the primary caretaker in her life. The Swartama family is leasing a home in Illinois for now. This is just the latest in a long series of horrific events,

all of them caused by Heather Mack. She brought pain and suffering to her whole family and now to her little girl. I'm so happy a child is being raised by someone that loves her and that little Stella will not be in any danger, God willing. But how did the whole thing happen? What started this turn of events? Take a listen. Two neighbors who did not want to go on camera tell me that Sheila Von Weiss-Mack lived inside this Oak Park home for many, many years. But she moved about a year ago, selling it to a developer. Well, this morning, neighbors here are horrified to hear of her murder police officials say the remains were stuffed into a

suitcase and found on the indonesian resort island of bali the discovery was made tuesday the body was inside the trunk of a taxi parked in front of the upscale St. Regis Hotel. She was half naked with wounds to her head, according to police. Half naked, beaten about the head, her bloody body crammed into a suitcase and left outside of a hotel. I bet the St. Regis wasn't too happy to see a suitcase with blood oozing out. You were just hearing reporter Jessica D'Onofrio, ABC7. We're talking about the murdered victim, but who was the murdered victim in life? Sheila Von Weiss-Mack.

Take a listen to our friends at Crime Online. Friends describe Sheila Von Weiss-Mack as a lovely and cultured woman, well-connected politically. Before her marriage, she was a political science student at Simmons College in Boston. She took a job working for Senator Ted Kennedy, doing research and other odd jobs. She told friends she even poured tea for Rose Kennedy a time or two. After leaving Senator Kennedy's camp, Sheila went to work for Jackie Kennedy. While studying for a Ph.D. at the University of Chicago, she was friends with famed novelist Saul Bellow, who was awarded a Pulitzer Prize, the Nobel Prize for Literature, and the National Medal of Arts. Wow, that's pretty impressive. So that's the mom that's found stuffed in a suitcase, but who is Heather Mack's father? Listen to this.

James Mack was a well-known educator, composer, and arranger. He first taught jazz studies at Crane Junior College, Chicago's oldest city college. Mack is credited for teaching a generation of up-and-coming musicians who would go on to become internationally famous, including some of the founding members of Earth, Wind & Fire and others who were longtime session players for Muddy Waters, B.B. King, Phil Collins, and others. He also moonlighted as an arranger and producer for record labels, including Chess, Capitol, and Columbia, and served as a guest conductor for the Chicago Symphony Orchestra.

Mack already had a son and four daughters by two previous marriages when he married Sheila Von Weiss, 22 years his junior. At the age of 66, despite having health problems, Mack became a new dad. Wow. So both parents, brilliant in their own way. She, a very cultured, sophisticated, educated woman, married to a jazz star a composer and arranger you know before i introduce the whole panel i just got to ask you cheryl mccullum director of the cold case research institute and forensics expert how can two such wonderful brilliant parents have a devil spawn like Heather Mack? How does that happen? This is a very unusual case.

It's a very unusual situation. Normally, you do not see this in a homicide case of this magnitude. So we know about the mom. We know about the dad. What about the area? Where did this child who turns into a killer, let me tell you,

matricide, killing your mother, is very, very rare. It's parenticide. Listen to this. The Mack home was well known by Oak Park police. Between January 2004 and June 2013, officers responded to 86 calls on a variety of charges, including domestic violence, theft, missing person, and 911 hang-ups. The relationship between mother and daughter was tenuous.

Cook County juvenile records show that Heather Mack was arrested in December 2011 on domestic battery, aggravated battery, and battery charges involving violence against her mother. Many of the calls before this incident included alleged physical violence against Sheila Von Weiss-Mack, such as biting, punching, and hitting. Reports say one incident caused the mom to break her arm. A guilty verdict landed Heather Mack in mandatory counseling with a focus on anger management. Whoa. Why did they call it a tenuous relationship between mother and daughter? This girl was beating the H-E-double-L out of her own mother. Did you hear that? 86 calls to the home. And this is a very ritzy area. It's a mansion there. I said it. Beautiful area. No crime that we know of. 86 calls.

And when you hear domestic battery, you usually think it's the husband or the male partner beating up the wife. Uh-uh. It's the daughter, Heather Mack, beating on mom. Let me introduce you to our all-star panel, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags on Amazon. You can find her at wendypatrickphd.com or on Today with Dr. Wendy, KCBQ in San Diego. Dr. Jory Crossan, psychologist, faculty,

St. Leo University, research consultant, author of SOS Stop Officer Suicide. Cheryl McCullough, founder, director, Cold Case Research Institute, forensics expert. You can find her at coldcasecrimes.org. Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University. Author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. But first, a Christy Mazk, Emmy Award winning investigative reporter, joining us from CrimeOnline.com.

Christy Mazurek, why? Wait, let me understand this. So there have been 86 911 calls to this mansion where the victim, Sheila Von Weiss Mack, lives with the daughter. But the mom still wants to mend bridges with the devil daughter and take her on an all-expense-paid trip to Bali? What? Is it true, Christy Mazurik, that Sheila's friends said, don't take her on a vacation. Don't be alone with her. They were very concerned and family friends kept pleading with her. Keep her here in the States. Let her walk away. She was 18 years old

at the time. Heather always maintained it was her mother who created the dysfunctional codependent love-hate relationship. Really? Who had the broken arm? Right. She blamed her mom for what she claims was drunken squandering of her father's estate after he died from cancer when she was about 10 years old. Oh, because later on she claims her mother murdered her father. Correct. He died of cancer. Right. Take a listen to reporter Matt Doran and Chris Hansen at Crime Watch Daily. She was becoming, you know, very defiant and not wanting to listen to any rules. And Sheila and I had many, many talks. And, you know, I said, you know, there's a reason the term troubled teen is out there.

But did Heather's troubles go beyond that of a normal teen? She started skipping school, hanging out with a rougher crowd, and even began stealing large sums of money from her own mom. What did Sheila tell you about what was going on behind Cluster's? Well, she told me that she was being abused by Heather. I mean, she was constantly being attacked physically. And Heather had an explosive temper. I mean, there's no question about that.

She would erupt at the slightest provocation. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Another update in the story of Heather Mack, born with a silver spoon in her mouth, only to go on and murder the person that loved her the most in the world, her own mother. Now, back to the case. This poor mom was literally being beaten up by her daughter, Heather Mack. But instead of kicking her out, she decides to take her to mend bridges on an all-expense-paid trip to Bali. Explain that to me, Dr. Jory.

Mother's love is unconditional. Boy, that's for sure. And unfortunately, it's deadly. She's trying to do the best she can as far as, like you say, mending that relationship and thinking, maybe if I can just get away with her and relax and spend some time with her and maybe talk things out. Following up on what Dr. Jory Crossan just said, Mom, Sheila trying desperately to get her daughter to a different environment, somewhere beautiful, somewhere calming, relaxing, joyful.

What's more beautiful than Bali? I mean, I've never been there, but I've looked at pictures, and it just seems like heaven on earth. So she spends a ton of money to take her daughter away, just the two of them, mother, daughter. It would be a great environment to start mending and starting the healing process in that relationship. Exactly. Well, she sure got a surprise when she got there.

Take a listen to Chris Hansen at Crime Watch Daily. Tommy Schaefer, Heather's boyfriend, suddenly arrived on a $12,000 flight from Chicago. She had no idea Tommy was coming. Sheila had wanted Heather to come on the trip to get her away from people she considered bad influences. The last person in the world she wanted to see in Bali was him. And so then the question is, well, how did he get there? I mean, it's $12,000 for an airplane ticket. In addition to the room he'd been staying in, Tommy's entire trip was being financed by a credit card Heather had taken from her mom. by all accounts sheila was livid who is this guy christy

missouric joining us from crimeonline.com who is this guy he is the love of heather mac's life that would get her thrown in jail tommy schaefer uh kind of a street thug from uh he's he's from an affluent family but he liked to hang kind of with some thuggy type of people in downtown Chicago. I don't get that. What is that? Cheryl McCollum, you and I have seen that many times. Let me go to Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags and host of Today with Dr. Wendy. Wendy, I've seen that where teens, children are born with a silver spoon in their mouth their parents bend

over backwards to do everything they can for them but they want to hang out with thugs and go get in trouble that's more fun than going to a recital or a prayer meeting no they want to hang out with the bad guys yeah bad boys and dark heroes and learning that bad company corrupts character, as we say. And, you know, my parents used to say, show me your friends and I'll show you your future. I think we should still see that today because this kind of dynamic is very common. And it's not just common with young teens. You know, we wish that this would be something somebody would grow out of. But what cases like this illustrate is this permeates culture sometimes, even when people are young adults, and God forbid, even when we become adults. You mean you gravitate toward that Svengali type person, the life of the party,

the dangerous one? Is that something in human nature? You know, in human nature, we tend to see that in some types of personalities. It is certainly not something universal that everybody needs to worry about. But when you see this kind of a pattern, and when you see this kind of a pattern, despite the upbringing that this young woman had, you have to wonder, how did this start? What role did, you know, the socialization process play in it? Or is this just somebody who preferred that kind of a dangerous living on the edge lifestyle? Whatever the explanation is, we certainly know how it turned out here. You know, Cheryl McCollum, you and I have been in court a lot of times together, and I have seen where children, teens, adults, with every advantage in the world,

gravitate toward what is dark and evil and end up getting dragged down with it. No question. Sometimes that criminal element is just sexier. It's a more interesting story. It's kind of living on the edge, and it's got this thrill to it. A lot of people get kind of living on the edge and it's got this thrill to it a lot of people get kind of sucked into that but i think it's important to talk about the 86 times police were involved this has nothing to do with the boyfriend this is her nancy if you were talking about 86 robberies

or 86 duis we would be losing our mind while this person was not in jail. Well, I'll tell you why she wasn't in jail. The mother would never wanted her prosecuted. She would beat the mother up. This wealthy, cultured, educated mom. Her daughter would beat her to smithereens, but she didn't want her daughter to have a jail record. Finally, the police insisted and she was found guilty of abusing her own mother. Oh, I'm not putting the onus on the boyfriend. She sought this out herself and you're right. She had horns sprouting from day one before she met the boyfriend, but it is quite the co-incident, right? That just 10 hours

after the boyfriend's plane touches down, we got problems. Take a listen to Matt Duran and Chris Hansen, Crime Watch Daily. 10 hours after the wheels of Tommy's plane hit the ground in Bali, surveillance cameras capture him entering Sheila's hotel room with a handle of a metal fruit bowl stuffed under his shirt. About an hour after that, Heather and Tommy are seen heading to the lobby with a silver suitcase, which they place in the back of a taxi before running off. It's not until the driver takes the abandoned luggage to the police station that they find out what's inside.

The bloodied half-naked body of sheila von weissmack she had been bludgeoned repeatedly before asphyxiating on her own blood so where were tommy and heather for just less than a day the media painted this pair as a modern day bonnie and clyde young american fugitives wanted for a particularly brutal murder. But their time on the run would end here at this budget motel less than a mile from the crime scene. Staff alerting police after becoming suspicious that the lovers had checked in without any luggage. To Joe Scott Morgan, professor of physics, Jacksonville State, and author of Blood Beneath My Feet. Joe Scott, how did this loving mother who sacrificed so much, how did she actually die? And then I want to talk to you about the phenomena that you and I have encountered many times of stuffing bodies in suitcases. Yeah.

Let me paint a picture for you, Nancy. And in the report that was given forth by the forensic expert at the hospital, keep in mind, this is not like being in America. They're in Bali, okay? But the report that came from there states that not only was she beaten about the head, Nancy? She's beating about the face. And you want to know what that says to me? She saw this coming. She was looking. She was looking. For as long as she could, she probably wound up being blinded either by her own blood or maybe her optic nerves became dislodged. But she had an awareness. Her facial bones were fractured. Her skull has been fractured. And Nancy, I'll tell you how else I know that she had an awareness. She had fractures on her arms and her hands, multiple contusions, otherwise known as bruising. And her cause of death, remember what was just said.

She actually suffocated nancy when she suffocated more than likely and this is just me opining here her facial bones were fractured so she would have literally inhalated the bone and the blood that we can normally you know we can normally process something that it might be in our mouth, in our airway, but she was so debilitated but still clinging to life. And so when they went to do the autopsy on her

and they opened up her airway, Nancy, her lungs would not only have been filled with her own blood in the tiny little air sacs, you would have seen fragmented pieces of bone in there potentially as well. It would have been an excruciating way to die. It is just beyond the pale.

This gives an indication of the level of violence. And Nancy, I don't want to bury the lead here, but I got to tell you, I know where you're going with this. He came down there with specific intent. He flew there they had a plan this was premeditated he went down there as an assassin he assassinated this poor little woman yes he did with her own daughter leading the attack and then the horror of, you know what? I remember going to a circus with the twins, the big one, Barnum, Barnum and Bailey.

And there was a contortionist. There were two of them. I think they were sisters. And they could wrap their bodies like they would fold them up. They'd fold up their body and go in a suitcase and close the suit. It was a box, a suitcase. And we couldn't believe it because it's very small. And I remember thinking, how did she do that?

Right. did she do that right and now i'm thinking about this mom her body being crunched and folded over and crammed into a suitcase how did that happen listen to alex perez gma this morning a gruesome discovery near the upscale saint regis resort in Bali is sending shockwaves from there all the way here to Chicago. Authorities finding the body of vacationing American Sheila Von Weiss Mack stuffed inside this silver suitcase. The luggage left in the trunk of this cab. Attained for questioning. No cameras. Mack's own 19-year-old daughter, Heather, and her boyfriend, Tommy Schaefer.

Heather, Mack, and Schaefer were arrested Wednesday at a hotel about six miles away from the resort, telling investigators they had escaped after being kidnapped by armed gang members who murdered her mother. But investigators say surveillance video shows the mother and daughter arguing in the hours before the murder. Later, police say the young couple called for a taxi, placing several suitcases inside before going back in the hotel to check out, they said. When they didn't return, hotel security discovered the suitcase. So they put their mom's body crunched up, folded up into a suitcase, stick it in,

leave it out front for a taxi to put into the taxi. And then they go into checkout and run. My understanding is, I guess, through the woods to get away out the back door, literally running out the back door to get away. To you, Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute, the way they treated her body, folding her up, literally folding her up and stuffing her in the suitcase. I wonder if Heather Mack sat on top of it while the boyfriend managed to close it. It is more grotesque than that. They used tape to wrap around her to hold her in place so that she would fit. So this took some time and it was bloody. It was a horrific scene. You can even see on the outside of the luggage when they take the garbage bag off, it's just saturated with her blood. You know, we're so used to analyzing evidence, Wendy Patrick,

that when you hear a comment like that, the suitcase was saturated with the mother's blood. A lot of times we just make a note of it because we're going to use that in a closing statement. Think about that for a moment, though, Wendy. The suitcase was saturated with her mother's blood. She bound her mother with a duct tape, her body folded over and contorted to fit into a suitcase. and been a prosecutor for so many years is the amount of time that the mother suffered. I don't think anyone can think through what happened here, even if you were just to hear about the injuries and not feel how long that mother suffered.

And at the hands of her own daughter, who she loved enough to forgive all of those years of abuse. 86 calls to the house. You know, the mother's love, the family first mentality for this mother ended up being fatal. To you, Dr. Jory Croson, psychologist, faculty, St. Leo, author. Dr. Jory, what does that tell you about how she considered her mother? Well, you know, the level of violence, there's always the close relationship. I mean, you can just about, there's been a lot of research to show, you know, the more violence, the closer the relationship. I agree with Joe that, you know, this boyfriend showed up over there with a plan to kill her. And when they got together, Heather and the boyfriend, you know, there's energy, but there's also what's called synergy.

I mean, it just synergizes this level of violence and it's documented in all the wounds to the body and how vicious the attack was. And I want to go to you, Joe Scott Morgan. Patricide is very, very rare, actually, especially the murder of your own mother. Yeah, yeah, it is. And it's not something that you come across every day. I've worked cases in my career. And you know, Nancy, I've got to gotta tell you those cases that i have worked when you

begin to rate them and this is only my little slice of the world my little slice but from what i have observed those were traditionally some of the most violent cases that i ever encountered and i think a lot of it has to do with anger. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The story of Heather Mack. I say story because it sounds like it's out of a novel or a horror movie. Murdering her own mother, going on the lam, giving birth to a baby behind bars. How did the whole thing get set in motion? How did this story begin to unfold? The matchicide, the murder of your own mother, makes up a little less than 2% of all homicides.

It is very, very rare, even for people that for some reason hate their mother, to kill your mother. Very, very rare. So, how has she been spending her time behind bars? Take a listen to our friends at Inside Edition. Not exactly hard time, is it? That's mom killer Heather Mack having fun dancing while she's in prison on the island paradise of Bali. Heather is wearing makeup and looks happy-go-lucky as she playfully sticks her tongue out.

And here's the 20-year-old Chicago-raised heiress in trendy shades. A big smile on her face. Heather and her boyfriend Tommy Schaefer were convicted of murdering her mother and stuffing the body into a suitcase during a vacation in Bali last year. Schaefer is doing 18 years. Heather got 10. The young lover's daughter, Stella, was born in prison. This video shows Schaefer cradling Stella while mom was dancing. Boo, boo, boo, boo, boo, boo. I boo like that. The prison where Heather and her boyfriend are being held has been described as a hellhole.

But it sure doesn't look like that in this new video. Okay, I don't understand. Christy Mazurk, how is she wearing makeup and dancing and mugging at a camera with her baby behind bars. So in Indonesia, moms can stay with their kids behind bars for up to two years. Also, what I've heard from some of my sources is that Heather has taken some of her mom's money to pay off prison guards for relaxed rules. Okay. You know, it reminds me of Jorn Vandersloot, Wendy Patrick,

who somehow has drugs and booze and got someone pregnant behind bars after he murdered Natalie Holloway and Stephanie Tassiano-Flores in Lima. She's having a party. Yeah, you know, sometimes when we hear that somebody's in prison, the mental imagery that comes to mind is very far from reality, and that appears to be the case here. I have to tell you, Nancy, more and more frequently, we are getting this glimpse, unfortunately, in a sense,

into what goes on behind bars because of the amount of contraband phones that are behind bars so every time i see footage somehow captured in a high security facility of wherever it is in the world that also tells me the contraband issue that goes on where all of these phones and ways to capture footage like this, if that's the way it was done, I don't know, is even possible. But I suppose on the bright side, it gives us somewhat of an idea as to what prison life is like in order for us to make the corrections that we need to. Well, all I know is she is not roughing it behind bars at all.

She's got makeup, music, she's dancing, she's got contraband, she's got her daughter, and now she's worried about coming home to the U.S. because her daughter might find out she's a murderer. First of all, why should she have the baby? How would you grow and flourish with Heather Mack as your mother? Well, that's not all take a listen to less trent from inside edition i don't regret killing my mother and as evil as that may sound that's my reality a chilling confession from behind bars by the american heiress who murdered her wealthy mother I made it up in my heart, my mind, my soul, my blood, oxygen running through my body. But I wanted to kill my mother. Now listen to why 21-year-old Heather Mack says she beat her mom to death and stuffed her body in a suitcase.

When I was 10, my mother killed my father in a hotel in Athens, Greece. Could Heather be making up the story? We spoke to family friend Elliot Jacobson, who says Heather's claims are nonsense. It's the kind of statement that doesn't even warrant a response. It's such an absurdity. He showed me this death certificate for Heather's father, James Mack. It gives the cause of death as pulmonary embolism, a blood clot in the lungs. You were hearing not only our friend Les Trent at Inside Edition,

but you were hearing Heather Mack saying she does not regret murdering her mother. She gives justification that her mother murdered her father when she was 10 in Athens, Greece. That could not be further from the truth. You hear the family friend, Elliot Jacobson, saying that that was not his cause of death. The father's cause of death was a pulmonary embolism, a blood clot in the lungs brought about through a battle with cancer. So even now, she's fabricating stories

to justify murdering her mother. It shows me that there is no remorse, no acceptance of her crime. Okay, let's take a listen to more of what we've learned. Here's Matt Duran and Chris Hansen at Crime Watch Daily.

Does the evidence support Heather's version of events? It's one thing in the heat of the moment, in a violent exchange, to kill your own mother. But it's another thing entirely to map it out and for this to have been premeditated. So which was it? I think it was half premeditated, half not. In my head, I never thought it was going to actually happen. The police say there's a series of text messages, Heather, which show that, which go to that very motive, premeditation.

Yeah, the text messages are such, I'll wait for them. Wait, did somebody get in the block and I clear it, Dad? Sure. Dad? Yes, of course. You want to call me back? That call never came. We would lose contact with Heather after those final words. It shows premeditation, Cheryl McCollum.

The text messages between her and her boyfriend. It's just like Dr. Jory said. He came there as an assassin. And now she's going to walk free. I only worry about what's going to happen to the baby. Well, let's talk about that, Nancy, because I think that's a lot of her motivation. So she originally tried to ask her boyfriend, hey, do you know somebody that can kill my mother for $50,000? Then I think the two of them decided, hey, we can save 50 grand and do

it ourselves and collect everything, all the inheritance. She right now, she wants that baby back with her. She's lying when she says she's worried that the baby's going to find out why she's in prison. The baby visits both of her parents in separate prisons for murder. The baby's going to know why they were there. That's a given. And this is what I think. She wants that baby back in Chicago with her because her daughter inherited her mother's estate. Guys, take a listen to our friends at NBC5 Chicago. St. Charles based attorney Vanessa Favia has represented Mac and Stella.

She's definitely more mature now and being a mother has changed her drastically. So I think she's going to come back with a new lease on life and definitely a better person all around. Mac's uncle, Bill Weiss, tells NBC5 he has not had contact with Heather and does not want to. And he says he believes Heather's original 10-year sentence was a travesty of justice. Still, he says the family's hearts continue to go out to Stella and they hope she can be raised in a safe and loving environment. Everyone she would know in America now was friends with her mother that she murdered. As far to you, Jessica Morgan, I don't know how she sleeps at night. Thinking back on the way she

murdered her mother, duct taped her body into a ball to stick her into a suitcase. I have no idea because you know what? I see her cycling back into violence. This is not like something that just fell from lightning, like lightning from heaven. This is a premeditated event. This woman is evil, Nancy. Well, there were the 86 phone calls to police.

Those were just the calls to police. How many other times did she batter her mother? And as far as maturing behind bars, Dr. Jory Cross said, she says, I don't regret murdering my mother. Then makes up a story that her mom is the killer, that it's her mother's fault she's dead in a suitcase. That's all justification for her. That's all that is. Thank you for joining us on our special weekend Crime Stories update. We wait as justice unfolds and our prayers for this little girl, Stella, to grow up happy and healthy and above all, safe from her own mother.

Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.