Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Spoiled-Bratz-Turned-Killers

Episode Date: March 16, 2022

Some of society's most notorious killers appear to be sons and daughters with every benefit that life has to offer available to them: loving parents, financial security, material wealth. So what turns an entitled individual into a murderer? Today on Crimes Stories, Nancy Grace and her panel of experts take a look at some of the more notable spoiled brat killers, including Heather Mack. Mack and her boyfriend murdered her socialite mother in Bali and stuffed her body into a suitcase. Joining Nancy Grace Today: Jim Elliott - Of Counsel, Butler Snow LLP, www.butlersnow.com, Instagram: JimElliott1957 Dr. Jenn Mann - Marriage and Family Therapist, Host 'Couples Therapy' and 'Family Therapy' on VH1, "The Dr. Jenn Show” on Sirius XM, Author: "The Relationship Fix: Dr. Jenn’s 6-Step Guide to Improving Communication, Connection and Intimacy", doctorjenn.com Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder, ColdCaseCrimes.org, Twitter: @ColdCaseTips Dr. Tim Gallagher - Medical Examiner State of Florida www.pathcaremed.com, Lecturer: University of Florida Medical School Forensic Medicine. Founder/Host: International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference Jennifer Dzikowski - Investigative Freelance Journalist Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Spoiled brat killers. Young adults that have everything at their fingertips, born with a silver spoon in their mouth, never wanted for a thing. The best homes, the best cars, the best food, the best clothes, the best education,

but still kill? What is that phenomena? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Take a listen to this. When the parents objected, the defender produced a.22 caliber pistol. He shot the mother, Vincenza Tomasetti, age 64, in the head near the right temple. And then shot the father, Rocco Tomasetti, age 65, in the back and left wrist. He struck his father then in the head with the gun numerous times after he ran out of bullets. Police say the bodybuilding influencer then took off, his mother and father taken to the hospital, the child and mother unharmed.

Thomas said he was arrested later on that evening in Bergen County and extradited back to Long Island Wednesday morning. We're charging him with two counts of attempted murder, second, and transporting him back here to Nassau County to be arraigned. Christmas morning, which should create the fondest memories spent with mom, dad, grandma, and granddad, now tarnished for the rest of this little boy's life. It's Christmas morning. The man wanted to take his one-year-old away from the parents and the natural mother, which he did not have custody to, and that's where the argument started. Okay, let me understand that this double shooting occurs on Christmas morning. We're talking about a young

man named Dino Tomasetti. In his 20s, he's called an influencer. And if you take one look at him, you can tell he spends a lot more time in the gym than he does at school or at work. So how did Christmas go bad? Take a listen again to Darla Miles, ABC 7, New York. When the parents objected, the defender produced a.22 caliber pistol. He shot the mother, Vincenza Tomasetti, age 64, in the head near the right temple and then shot the father, Rocco Tomasetti, age 65, in the back and left wrist. He struck his father then in the head with the gun numerous times after he ran out of bullets. Police say the bodybuilding influencer then took off, his mother and father taken to the hospital, the child and mother unharmed. Tomasetti was arrested later on that evening in Bergen County and extradited back to Long Island Wednesday morning. So you've got this beautiful mansion with this mom and dad who've

worked their whole life to build a fortune and a home for this son, Dino Tomasetti, who then has a baby with his girlfriend and apparently tries to take the baby, the baby boy, away from his parents and his girlfriend. They're having Christmas together and they try to stop him. So he shoots the parents. Do I have it? Bass Ackwards, Dave Mack, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, joining us along with Jim Elliott, high-profile lawyer out of Warner Robins,

Georgia at butlersnow.com, Dr. Sherry Schwartz, and boy, do we need a shrink, forensic psychologist specializing where crime and law intersects, Lisa Daddio, former police lieutenant and lecturer and the director for the Center of Advanced Policing, Dr. Tim Gallagher, medical examiner for the entire state of Florida. Dave Mack, what happened with Tomasetti? Have you seen his picture, number one? Have you, okay, that's just not natural. I mean, how does this guy, does he have a job or does he spend every waking moment pumping iron?

That's his job, actually. He's a personal trainer, Nancy, and they call him a social media influencer. OK, and you do have the entire story. Absolutely correct. Christmas morning, the bodybuilder and his family all doing what we love to do on Christmas morning with our family. But he decides he wants to leave with his son and obviously this is not something that's allowed right there right there i got a problem uh lisa daddio joining me uh as i said former police lieutenant lisa one of my best friends believe it or not is a female defense lawyer. And she's told me countless times, should rather handle a dope lord, a crack dealer, than a domestic. Okay, because when you get between

a man and a woman, a girlfriend and a boyfriend, you bring in the parents, plus mix in a baby, they'll take a shot at the lawyer. You can't even walk across your living room floor in front of a window because it's so enraging to both sides. What do you make of what we're learning right now? Dino Tomasetti, in his 20ss ruins christmas morning tries to take the baby away from its mother and his parents in their nice home having christmas morning and he ends up shooting his mom and dad right there in front of the christmas tree i'd want to know why wasn't he

allowed to take his his why didn't he have any custody rights? That would be my first question. So something obviously is there where for whatever reason he wasn't allowed to take it, which spewed kind of this whole rage when he goes ahead and does what he does on Christmas morning in front of his child who he wants to protect. You know, Dr. Sherry Schwartz joining me, psychologist. Dr. Sherry, I don't get it. This guy then sped away in his Cadillac Escalade SUV. You know his parents paid for that. This guy is not making that kind of money as a personal trainer and social influencer. Okay, that that's not happening. Plus, I think it's more him lifting weights at the gym as opposed to personal training. Don't know that.

I'm just venturing a guess on that. But he's got a Cadillac Escalade. He has designer clothing. He's got everything. He's been born with a silver spoon in his mouth and he shoots mommy and daddy. Well, this is somebody, Nancy, who clearly has no boundaries. He doesn't understand that this is not the way you can behave in life. And I'm going to say, I'm going to go out on a limb.

You're right. We don't know that he's working out at the gym. But based on the photograph that I've seen of him, I doubt that he's just standing around the gym. And I'm wondering if part of what fuels this rage is potentially maybe steroids. What does steroids do to you? Joining me, Dr. Tim Gallagher, a medical examiner for the entire state of Florida. What does steroids do to you that puts you in roid rage? Well, steroids would put you in something called a roid rage. That is one of the things that it does. But actually, the roid rage is part of a bipolar experience. So people who are on steroids become extremely depressed. And then when they rebound, they'll go into a hyper state of mania. So that would be the

rage. And so the steroids affect the brain, actually the medulla oblongata portion of the brain, which is responsible for your rage. And that's where it has its effect. And that is the basis of the Royd Rage. I'm just thinking about this whole area, Hewlett Harbor. Hewlett Harbor. That is where Dave Mack, the parents, Dino Tomasetti, his parents, shot. That's where they were. It was Rocco and Minchinza Tomasetti. Hewlett Harbor, I'm pretty sure their mansion was right on the harbor. You could look out and see the water.

That ain't cheap, Dave Mack. $3.2 million worth is not cheap, Nancy. It's a beautiful home. What do we know, if anything, about Dino Tomasetti? What we know about Dino is he is a personal trainer. He works out of Brooklyn. He is what they call a social media influencer, which means he works out, he posts video online and tries to draw in business for his skills in that regard. Now, we know that he did not have custody of his one-year-old son uh then actually the todd the baby was actually spending

christmas with his parents um and his ex-girlfriend they were all in the room at the same time when dino decides he's taking his son with him and that's where everything exploded and remember dino put a gun to his mother's head and pulled the trigger, Nancy. And before he shot his dad, Dave Mack, he pistol whipped his own father. Pistol whipped his own dad. I mean, you want to explain what that is? Jim Elliott, when you pistol whip somebody, what is that? It's also a deadly weapon among any of a number of other things.

I mean, that's totally illogical. That is the legal definition. Aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. When you pistol whip somebody, Dr. Tim Gallagher, what do you do to them? A pistol whip is when you take the pistol or the handgun and you beat the person with the handgun. You're not shooting them. You're actually beating them with the metallic part of the handgun, whether it be the barrel or the handle of the gun. That is vicious to do that to your own father. Well, Dave Mack, I don't know what this guy's thinking, but you know how he got arrested, right, Dave Mack, through the GPS?

Oh, yeah, I do. Will you explain? Yes, ma'am. OnStar, you know, a lot of cars come with it or you can have it turned on. And that's actually what they did, the police, I mean, because, again, you've got a shooting, a pistol whipping, and you've got a man running away from everything. So they locked into, using OnStar, locked into his computer on his car, tracking the GPS of that Cadillac Escalade. And then using the OnStar computer system, they were able to first slow the vehicle down to where they can control where he was.

And then they actually stopped the vehicle and then did a felony stop right there on the freeway. Let me ask you something, Dave Mack, if you know. What did Rocco and Vincenzo Tomasetti do for a living? How did they amass their fortune? It actually goes back to the construction work in and around New York City. Rocco's company actually built one World Trade Center or was part of that, dealing with the Empire Transit Mix Company, which is cement, and what have you, as a contractor. Contracting is not easy.

My uncle, my mom's brother built houses. My grandfather dug wells for a living. That's not easy work. That is hard work. You're out there in all different types of weather doing manual labor and overseeing manual labor. That is not easy. So together, he and his wife build this construction fortune, and then they get shot in the head by their own son. Well, he's not the only spoiled brat shooter. Who will ever forget the name, Elliot Rogers. I know I want. Elliot Rogers, also known as the virgin killer,

father and mother gave him everything. A mansion, wardrobe, sports cars, not just one, but several. The dad, a Hollywood producer of major motion pictures. But what did Elliot Rodgers do? Another spoiled brat killer? Take a listen to our cut 47 from our friends at YouTube Video Retribution. On the day of retribution, I am going to enter the hottest sorority house of UCSB, and I will slaughter every single spoiled, stuck-up, blonde slut I see inside there. All those girls that I've desired so much, they would have all rejected me and looked down upon me as an inferior man if I ever made a sexual advance towards them

while they throw themselves at these obnoxious brutes. I'll take great pleasure in slaughtering all of you. You will finally see that I am, in truth, the superior one. The true alpha male.

Yes. After I've annihilated every single girl in the sorority house, I'll take to the streets of Isla Vista and slay every single person I see there. crime stories with nancy grace elliot rogers father uh the son of director peter roger who worked on the blockbuster franchise hunger games take a listen to more of the so-called virgin killer speaking on Retribution YouTube video, our cut 46. It has been very torturous. College is the time when everyone experiences those things such as sex and fun and pleasure. But in those years, I've had to rot in loneliness.

It's not fair. You girls have never been attracted to me. I don't know why you girls aren't attracted to me. But I will punish you all for it. It's an injustice, a crime. Because I don't know what you don't see in me. I'm the perfect guy. And yet you throw yourselves at all these obnoxious men instead of me, the supreme gentleman. I think he's the one that is obnoxious. But can you imagine what he has put his parents through and what a privileged

life they gave him? His stepmother is a star of the French Real Housewives, an actress with roles in Lovelace and Playing for Keeps. He posted video upon video of his $40,000 BMW 3281 Coupe. He flew first class to Britain to attend a private Katy Perry show, but he often whined and complained on YouTube. Dave Mack, joining us, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. How many people did the virgin killer murder um man nancy i the total was i believe 14 and i apologize i'm looking at it right here because i was looking at the number that he stabbed and the number that he shot because he did both and which is just not the

normal thing he kills his three roommates first. There are three men. He stabbed them to death. Then he grabs the gun and heads over to the sorority house, the Alpha Phi sorority house, and begins shooting after knocking on the front door. You know, Dave, Matt, you just brought up something really important. When we have a killer that we're not sure how many people he killed, that's very disturbing.

Same thing about serial killers. We don't really know how many people Israel Keyes killed or Ted Bundy. There could be so many more than we actually know. And you brought up another important point, Dave Mack, the MOs, method of operation, modus operandi, change, stabbing, and shooting. You know, very often, Lisa Daddio, I hear experts say, oh, well, it wasn't him because it's a different MO. That's total BS. Killers change their MOs based on the moment, the opportunity they have to kill, as we see with Elliot Rodger. Yeah, absolutely they do, especially depending on the time in between, what they have at their disposal. In this case, I mean, listening to him is chilling to describe what he's going to do.

So he used whatever mode, whatever method he had at his disposal at the time to kill his victims. Jim Elliott joining us, high-profile lawyer out of Warner Robins with Butler Snow at butlersnow.com. Jim, I had this happen many times, but of course, by the time I got it, it was a serious felony where you see a spoiled brat who gets in serious trouble. Now, stealing a car or having drugs on you, depending on how much drugs, is one thing. But violent felonies, that's a whole other animal. And you look at the parents, and they're seemingly great people that have given everything they could to their children. It's always been a phenomenon to me.

What do you say about it? Well, we all know examples of that from our lives, where some, quote, kids are never told no. So that means the answer to everything is yes. And, you know, so when they're unhappy, they have the resources to just lash out at people like this young man did. Do they never, Dr. Sherry Schwartz, develop a conscience? Is it because they're given everything? I mean, I don't want to blame the parents because I don't think it's the parents' fault.

Well, I agree with you that it's not the parents' fault that day, right? But I mean, I believe that if they saw this coming, they would have done everything they could to stop it, if not because of empathy for the victims, but because they want to save their own son, right? But there is evidence from, you know, the reading that I've done on this case where he had problems throughout his life. The parents kept moving him from school to school to school. They knew he was being bullied in high school, and they moved him to another high school. And so as a psychologist, I say to myself, but you have all this money. Why didn't you get him the help? From elementary school, you're moving him from school to school. How come you're not investing

all of your resources and trying to solve the problem? And maybe they did. And we just don't know. I was saying, I mean, it's out in L.A. You want to tell me they did not send him to a therapist? Totally saw there, but it's just I would put money on it that he saw a therapist. I would put money on it that he saw a therapist. Speaking of Elliot Rodgers' parents, take a listen to dad Peter Rodger on ABC. Every night I go to sleep. I wake up. And I think of those young men and young women that have died. Injured and were terrorized.

And my son did that. My son caused so much pain and suffering for so many families. It's like a reverse nightmare situation. When you go to sleep normally, you have a nightmare and you wake up and oh, everything's okay. Now I go to sleep, I might have a nice dream. And then I wake up and then slowly the truth of what happened dawns on me and my son was a mass murderer. There's no way I thought that this boy could even, could have had to flee. I mean, this is, this is the most unbelievable thing.

What I don't get is we didn't see this coming at all. This is the American horror story or the world's horror story. It really is. Spoiled brat killers whose parents have lavished them with love, money, material things, education, giving them a wonderful home, a wonderful childhood that we know of. But it's not limited to men. Take a listen to our Cut 50. This is anchor Jim Rosenfield, NBC10. Still more breaking news right now. A 14-year-old girl has admitted to killing her own mother in a case that shocked the Lehigh Valley.

Jamie Silvanek pleaded guilty to first-degree murder today. A judge then sentenced her to 35 years to life in prison. Authorities say she and her 21-year-old Army specialist boyfriend conspired to kill her mother, Cheryl, last March. Prosecutors say she told her daughter to end the relationship because her boyfriend was too old. That boyfriend, Caleb Barnes, is also charged in this crime. It was a brutal murder. A 14-year-old eighth grader, take a listen to our cut, 49.6 ABC. An Upper McCungie eighth grader is charged tonight as an adult for killing her mother.

The Lehigh County District Attorney says that 14-year-old Jamie Silvanek conspired with her 20-year-old boyfriend, Caleb Barnes. He was a soldier on leave from Fort Meade, Maryland. Authorities say Jamie wanted her mother dead because she was trying to break up the relationship. Cheryl Silvanek was stabbed to death in her driveway back on March 15th. The boyfriend, Barnes, is already under arrest for the murder. Is it true, Dave Mack, that Jamie Silvanek murdered her mother, getting her outside the night? I believe there had been a concert,

and the mom didn't want her to go to the concert with a much older guy in the military, but finally reeled in and was going to let them go to the concert with a much older guy in the military, but finally reel in and I was going to let them go to the concert. And the mom was lured into a car and then brutally murdered. And the mom kept trying to send a message to the dad by hitting the horn over and over and over, but the dad was asleep and didn't hear it. Didn't hear a thing. And it was right there in their driveway when she was lured outside, Nancy. If you can imagine, you've got Jamie, the 14-year-old girl, and her 20-year-old boyfriend, Caleb Barnes.

And Cheryl gets stabbed in the neck in her car. I cannot imagine the horror she feels sitting in her own driveway as that knife is being plunged into her neck and she's honking on the horn doing everything she can just trying to get some help and it's not there's nothing there. And just so you know she is now asking for a new trial by the way. Take a listen to our cut 51 NBC 10. The soldier you see here will spend the rest of his life in prison for the killing of a Lehigh Valley mother of his, the mother of his teenage girlfriend. Yesterday, a jury convicted Army Specialist Caleb Barnes in the stabbing death of Cheryl Slavonic while her 14-year-old

daughter Jamie watched. That murder happened last year in the driveway of Slavonic's home in Upper Makungi Township. Evidence showed Barnes killed Slavonic because she disapproved of his relationship with her daughter. The teen pleaded guilty in the case. She is serving 35 years to life for helping Barnes. In that murder, Barnes will be formally sentenced next month. I've seen a lot of homicides. I worked a lot of homicide scenes and prosecuted a lot of homicides. I worked a lot of homicide scenes and prosecuted a lot of homicides. But stabbing your own mother in the neck because she didn't want you to date a guy nearly 10 years older than you in the military when you're just 14. Help me out, Dr. Sherry Schwartz. That's a tough one to take in. This is, I think, in a lot of ways, every parent's worst nightmare, because here's her

mom trying to do the right thing and say, you're way too young to be dating this much older guy. And Jamie says, I don't care what my mom says. And if she's going to get in my way, then I'm going to get her out of my way. And it's just shocking the level of violence and the fact that she could be there when this was happening. It's terrifying. To you, Dr. Tim Gallagher, medical examiner for the state of Florida at PathCareMed.com. Dr. Gallagher, to stab someone in the neck, literally in the jugular, is one of the worst crime scenes ever.

Explain. Oh, you're right, Nancy. The jugular vein and the carotid artery. If you hit the carotid artery, that blood will spurt across the room. It'll spurt about eight or nine feet. And then we've had scenes where we've even found blood on the ceiling of the of the room basically the heart is right beneath that and it pumps very hard comes very half of its blood goes up to the head and if the carotid artery or the jugular vein is severed the heart will pump the

blood directly through that wound and out of the body at a very high pressure. So those scenes are extremely bloody and to the point where we have difficulty obtaining a blood sample from the body during the autopsy for toxicology purposes. And what's so scary about it, Lisa Daddio, is it wasn't the spur of the moment attack on her own mother. She admitted that she and the boyfriend had been planning the murder of her mother for over a week. It just the rage, the horror, the obsession with killing her mom, how it was done, the brutality that it was done. It is just unbelievable to see the twistedness of this incident. And the two of them have been watching a little too much CSI, Lisa Daddio, because they also had bought bleach and rubber gloves.

It's going to be mighty hard to clean up that crime scene with bleach inside of a car. And with the volume of blood there, the bleach isn't going to work. And you know what? I read Dave Mack. I was listening to testimony. The mother was, quote, the glue that held the family together. And Nancy, you know,

the odd part about all of this is how now her father is actually in favor of her getting a new trial and throwing out the plea agreement. Okay, well, good luck with that. As we were saying earlier, it's not just adult men that end up killing their parents. Spoiled brats that have been given everything. Who can forget Heather Mack?

Take a listen to our cut 56. To Sheila's surprise, less than two weeks into the trip, Tommy Schaefer, Heather's boyfriend, suddenly arrived on a $12,000 flight from Chicago. She had no idea Tommy was coming. In fact, if anything, Sheila had wanted Heather to come on the trip to get her away from people she considered bad influences. The last person in the world she wanted to see in Bali was him.

And so then the question is, well, how did he get there? I mean, it's $12,000 for an airplane ticket. But Sheila would soon find out, in addition to the room he'd been staying in, Tommy's entire trip was being financed by a credit card Heather had taken from her mom. By all accounts, Sheila was livid. And do you blame her? She was there to reconnect with

her daughter, and all of a sudden, this boyfriend, who she doesn't like, shows up on her dime. That must have been infuriating. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Heather Mack, 25, has also been called the suitcase killer for a reason. But before I get to the fact that she's called the suitcase killer, she was born to very influential, educated parents. Her dad was a renowned jazz musician. the mom highly cultured and educated and they gave their only child heather mack everything she had ever wanted so how did they end up in bali dave mack you know nancy you mentioned uh

the the relationship there between the mom dad and uh and heather well the mom and Heather had a very troubled upbringing for many, many years. And Sheila Von Wiesmack wanted to spend this time in Bali as a vacation to bond with her daughter. She wanted them to get away from all of this stuff at home and to go to paradise and actually calmly, lovingly reconnect with one another. That's how they ended up in Bali. And that is exactly what the mother wanted to do with her daughter. Well, everything changed when Heather Mack's boyfriend shows up. Take a listen to our cut.

57. This is Matt Duran, Crime Watch Daily. Ten hours after the wheels of Tommy's plane hit the ground in Bali, surveillance cameras capture him entering Sheila's hotel room with the handle of a metal fruit bowl stuffed under his shirt. About an hour after that, Heather and Tommy are seen heading to the lobby with a silver suitcase, which they place in the back of a taxi before running off. It's not until the driver takes the abandoned luggage to the police station that they find out what's inside. The bloodied half-naked body of Sheila Von Wiesmack.

She had been bludgeoned repeatedly before asphyxiating on her own blood. So where were Tommy and Heather? For just less than a day, the media painted this pair as a modern-day Bonnie and Clyde. Young American fugitives wanted for a particularly brutal murder. But their time on the run would end here at this budget motel less than a mile from the crime scene. Staff alerting police after becoming suspicious that the lovers had checked in without any luggage. To you, Jim Elliott, high profile lawyer out of Warner Robins have you ever had a case where you look at the jury as you put up the evidence and they literally look away from the evidence it's so

horrible the crime scene photo the autopsy photo which is rarely admissible but can be brought into evidence under certain circumstances. Photos or bloody clothes, whatever it may be, the jury actually looks like they're going to vomit and look away. I haven't had that personal experience, but I mean, for a defense lawyer, you better see if there's any plea potential available for your client because the handwriting's on the wall. Man, you're not kidding, Jim Elliott. You are not kidding.

I have had that happen. Well, a lot of times, actually, especially, of course, in homicide cases where it's so gut-wrenching and it's like some people don't like to look at a snake because you have an innate fear of that. Looking at a crime scene like this is something so repugnant. I've had GERRards many times literally flinch and turn away when they see this evidence. To you, Dave Mack, they actually crunched the mom's body up, bleeding, put it in a suitcase, and it was left oozing in front of a five-star hotel in Bali. It actually was left in the taxi cab. Yes, yes. And the taxi cab driver is like, hey, what is the suitcase doing in the back of my car?

So he sets it down right there. They took off and checked into a hotel without any luggage. And the taxi cab guy is like, what the heck? This thing's oozing something. And so he takes it out of his cabin. That's where they find it. You know, the neighbors and friends had no idea what was going on. Shocked to find out back in the U.S. what had happened. Take a listen to our cut 59, our friends at ABC 7. Two neighbors who did not want to go on camera tell me that Sheila Von Weiss-Mack lived inside this Oak Park home for many, many years, but she moved about a year ago, selling it to a developer. Well, this morning, neighbors here are horrified to hear of her murder.

Police officials say the 62-year-old's remains were stuffed into a suitcase and found on the Indonesian resort island of Bali. The discovery was made Tuesday. The body was inside the trunk of a taxi parked in front

of the upscale St. Regis Hotel. She was half naked with wounds to her head, according to police. And more. Our Cut 55 Crime Watch Daily. She was becoming, you know, very defiant and not wanting to listen to any rules. And Sheila and I had many, many talks. And, you know, I said, you know, there's a reason the term troubled teen is out there. But did Heather's troubles go beyond that of a normal teen? She started skipping school, hanging out with a rougher crowd,

and even began stealing large sums of money from her own mom. What did Sheila tell you about what was going on behind closed doors? Well, she told me that she was being abused by Heather. I mean, she was constantly being attacked physically, and Heather had an explosive temper. I mean, there was constantly being attacked physically, and Heather had an explosive temper. I mean, there's no question about that. She would erupt at the slightest provocation. In fact, over a 10-year period, police were called here on reports of domestic violence more than 80 times. She would bite Sheila. She would hit her. To the point of Sheila sustaining serious injuries? Well,

Heather pushed her one time in the bathroom and she fell and broke her arm. To Dr. Sherry Schwartz, psychologist joining us, there was a clear sign of abuse by daughter Heather Mack, spoiled brat, on her mother. But no matter how many times police were called, nothing was ever really solved. How do you explain that dynamic? Well, what strikes me about this is it sounds very much like the domestic violence, eventual homicides that we cover very often, right? It's just usually, you know, the spouse of the abused partner. In this case, it's the child. And it started such a long time ago. I imagine that just like in many other domestic violence cases, the victim calls the police in the moment because they're in danger, clearly.

But then maybe they don't follow through with the prosecution. After all, this was her daughter, right? So you want to try to do everything that you can to help your child. You also want to try to remain safe. And so I'm guessing that there was probably an issue for police in terms of being able to prosecute if mom's not cooperating fully. That's a really good point, Dave Mack. I see the same thread running through many of these cases. You just pointed out regarding the teen girl, Jamie Silvanek, that murdered her mother in the eighth grade, brutally murdered her mother over

a boyfriend. Now the dad is in favor of the daughter getting out of jail. Same thing here with Heather Mack. The mom didn't really want to prosecute her daughter after all the times the daughter had physically attacked her. we triggered this violence. We triggered this child into attacking or whatever. Heather, when you have 87 police calls over a 10-year period of time between a mother and her daughter, that's a little bit more than just justifying an anger tantrum. This is violence at a very high level. You're right. It's not just ignoring an anger tantrum of some sort or forgiving petty offenses in the home. It's so much more, but it seems like it's a continuation of very innocent turning a blind eye. And it goes on and on until it culminates in this. Well, no spoiled brat killer episode would be complete without Anna Schroeder.

And I've noticed, whoever wants to jump in, that many of the incidents where a girl spoiled brat killer kills her parents or a parent, it's over a love interest. The first one I ever handled, covered, was Sarah Johnson who killed her mother because the mother disapproved of her boyfriend. It was quite the phenomenon then, not so uncommon. Now take a listen to our cut 52, our friends at KWQC. Police say that in July of 2017, Schroeder, then 15, fatally shot her mother, 56-year-old Peggy Schroeder, in their Morrison shot her mother 56 year old Peggy Schroeder in

their Morrison home over a dispute about a romantic relationship between the teen and Rachel Helm also then 15 after her mother was shot police say Schroeder called Helm to help clean up the scene the two set the house on fire the next day the Schroeder's plea to deal took the possibility of a trial and charges of arson and first-degree murder off the table. It's an offer Peggy's sister, Charlene Wilkins, told TV6 in 2020 that she didn't agree with. And I feel everybody has the right to know the evidence, to see the evidence and hear the evidence. So I am disappointed there's not going to be a jury trial.

The plea agreement allows for a lesser sentence, giving prison time for the now-adult Anna a possibility for anything from 4 to 20 years. Helm also faces charges of arson and concealment of a body. You know what? The evidence that the victim's sister was talking about will turn your stomach. Take a listen again to our friends in Cut 53 KWQC. Following Peggy Schroeder's death, police uncovered disturbing text messages between Anna Schroeder and Rachel Helm that seemingly indicated the two teens wanted Schroeder dead and even planned for it. I'm F-R, I will literally kill her and hide the body L-M-A-O, correct?

That's correct. The defense displayed multiple text conversations, including a striking string of texts between Anna Schroeder and Rachel Helm, showing the two teens conspired to murder Schroeder's mother weeks before she died. Rachel responded, I'll help though, so I messed up. The same string of messages, which took place in late June 2017, divulged their plans to get rid of the body so they could be together and possibly live in Schroeder's home. Like I want to kill her just so I have you and we can stay at your house together after we get rid of the body. Correct?

That's correct. The evidence, which was discovered during the investigation into Schroeder's death, took place on multiple devices and Facebook. Now, listen to this quote. I will literally kill her and hide the body, LMAO. Laughing my ass off. That's what that stands for. LMAO. I. Cold-blooded killing of her own mother. Dave Mack, why? Why did Anna

Schroeder commit murder? Because she, at 15, was in love with another 15-year-old, and mom did not approve of the relationship. That's what it was. Now, I hope you're all sitting down. Take a listen to our cut 54 KWQC. During the hearing, the defense brought into evidence and

confirmed with Lieutenant David Molina, who was at the stand as the prosecution's witness, that Anna Schroeder sent home a picture of her dead mother to prove she'd killed her. The pair then began to discuss how to cover it up. And then Rachel asks, quote, so what are we doing with the body again? Question mark. And says, I feel like I need to tell Michelle or my dad with a sad face emoji. But Rachel responds, Anna, don't. Anna, don't. You'll go to jail. That was their response. She sent a sad face emoji after murdering her mother. We may never know why adult children kill their parents, but the phenomena is growing. It's not as unusual anymore. We can never know what goes on inside the mind of a killer. We wait as justice unfolds in these and other cases. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off. Goodbye, friend.

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