Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Spoiled Hollywood Brat Suspect in 3 Murders After Female Torso Found in Dumpster

Episode Date: November 14, 2023

A group of day laborers is hired by Sam Haskell IV to remove three bags of what they are told, are rocks from his garage  The men described the bags as "soft and soggy," with each weighing about 50 pounds. A block away from Haskell's house, the workers opened up the bags and said they saw body parts. The men returned the bag to Haskell and returned his money. Haskell played it off, telling the workers what they actually saw were Halloween props. The men drove immediately to the police. The men try to report what they have seen to police but they are turned away. The men went to the Highway Patrol station first but were told to go to the Los Angeles Police Department. The LAPD Topanga Station tells the men to go back outside and call 911 from the courtyard. In the meantime, police receive another call about human remains, A homeless man, digging through the dumpster looking for recyclables, finds human remains. Inside the dumpster, LAPD found a torso in a bag. The investigation provided detectives with enough information to lead them to Samuel Haskell IV's residence.   Joining Nancy Grace Today: Elle Benami - -Friend and neighbor of Mei & Samuel Haskell IG: @ellebenami Troy Slaten – Los Angeles Criminal Defense Attorney, Slaten Lawyers, APC; Twitter @TroySlaten Dr. Gary Brucato – Clinical Psychologist and Author: “The New Evil: Understanding the Emergence of Modern Violent Crime” Chris McDonough – Director At the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective; Host of YouTube channel: “The Interview Room”  Dr. Michelle Dupre – Forensic Pathologist and former Medical Examiner, Author: “Homicide Investigation Field Guide” & “Investigating Child Abuse Field Guide”, Ret. Police Detective Lexington County Sheriff’s Department Dr. Trace Sargent- Search, Rescue & Recovery Expert, (Ph.D. in Psychology with a focus on victimology – criminal profiling – predator behaviors – crime scene analysis); Podcast: “The Seeker’s Quest;” Facebook: The Seeker’s Quest Alexis Tereszcuk –  CrimeOnline Investigative Reporter, Writer/Fact Checker for Lead Stories; Twitter: @swimmie2009  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Why are people in Hollywood with so much money and so many incredible blessings, why are they all miserable? And why do we get the most gruesome crimes originating in one of the costiest zip codes in the country? Right now, we're trying to get to the bottom of three missing people and one woman's torso in a dumpster. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories and on Sirius XM 111. Take a listen to this. Police say they got a call from one of Sam Haskell's neighbors who reported seeing suspicious bags outside the Tarzana home and the bags appear to have body parts in them. LAPD Detective Ephraim

Gutierrez. The radio call November 7th at about 5 30 p.m. involved a suspicious bag that possibly contained a human remains. When the officers responded, nothing was located. Even though nothing was located, an investigation was launched. This is what we know. The original call to police we first thought was from neighbors, but now it appears to be from some construction workers in the area. What a twisted story. Listen. The men try to report what they've seen to the police,

but are turned away twice. The men went to the highway patrol station first, but were told they had to go to the Los Angeles Police Department. The LAPD Topanga station tells the men to go back outside and call 911 from the courtyard. Okay, I've got an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now about three missing people and a woman's torso that has been found in a dumpster there in L.A. But first to Alexis Teresich joining me from this jurisdiction, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Alexis, thank you for being with us. So, I mean, bottom line, Alexis, police and not one, but two locations send these citizens trying to report what they think is a bag of body parts on a wild goose chase, a scavenger hunt, so to speak. They do. They went, they had these trash bags. They thought,

oh my gosh, this is not something normal. This is probably body parts. We think this is what it is. They go to a police station. The police say, well, where did you get these bags from? Oh, you got it from this house over there. You need to go to that jurisdiction. Didn't look at the bags, nothing at all. Probably didn't even believe them. So they send it to the next place and they're like, yeah, you got to call 911. You know, this is right out of a movie. Let me go to Chris McDonough joining me, director of the Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective, host of a YouTube channel, The Interview Room, where I found him. Chris McDonough, have you ever seen Home Alone? Yes.

Okay. I know you know where I'm going, where the mom calls. I believe this must have been Home Alone 2, where she calls from Paris, and she gets sent to one person, and then they knock on the wall, and they send the phone to the next person, and back and forth and back and forth. She never gets the right police officer and finally starts calling neighbors. I know that is a funny, a comical example of what we're talking about, but really, these people are trying to report a bag of human body parts and they get sent on a wild goose chase. I tell you what,

if I were the police chief, which of course I'm not, I would totally clean house over who chose not to take a report on a bag of body parts, Chris McDonough. And I can bet you, Nancy, you're 100% right. This is right out of a Hollywood horror movie. And that police chief Moore, Michael Moore, who's the LAPD chief now, he's going to be questioning a lot of folks. Well, I hope he does more than question them. I mean, you get a call about body parts. You better go like grease lightning to investigate. And that delay cost the case a lot of time and possibly a lot of evidence. Let's move forward. Listen. LAPD detective Ephraim Gutierrez says early the next morning,

police received another call about human remains. The caller was a homeless man that was digging through the dumpster to look for recyclables and discovered what he believed to be a human remains. All that was recovered was the torso, but there were clues in the bag. Just from a visual inspection, the stages of decomposition were relatively early, so no more than a day or two. Okay, I'm glad that an untrained cop can look in and tell me the level of decomposition, but actually he may be right. You know, let me go to Troy Slayton, high profile criminal defense attorney joining us out of this

jurisdiction, LA. You know, if there were anywhere else, I would just assume they were the same body parts, but in LA they could be entirely a different set of body parts. But logically speaking, Troy Slayton, do you think they could then add two plus two equals? These are the same set of body parts as we got reported yesterday? Well, the coroner and medical examiner, which are the same here in Los Angeles, they're going to start having to piece these things back together. So the body parts that were recovered by these construction workers and whatever was found by this homeless person, it's not going to take very long for them to decide if that's the same body part. And the robbery homicide division of LAPD, which is the most elite squad in the LAPD, is going to be investigating and

try and put two and two together. Dr. Michelle Dupree is joining me, forensic pathologist, medical examiner, former detective, author of Money, Mischief and Murder, The Murdoch Saga, the rest of the story on Amazon, and she literally wrote the book, The Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Dr. Dupree, we're all talking about bags of body parts, but to this victim or victim's family, the discussion of body parts, that is their loved one. That is their daughter, their sister, their mom, their dad, their grandpa that we're talking about. Body parts. Body parts.

You're absolutely right, Nancy. These are somebody's family. They are, you know, I'm obviously very upset about this. And it's a tragic thing to find. No, it's not just the shock of ultimately learning that you have lost someone you love, possibly that you love more than anything else in the world, but then finding out that they are a crime victim, a murder victim, and then to find out that they have been dismembered, that their dead body has been defiled in such a horrible, horrible way.

To Dr. Gary Procato, clinical psychologist, author of The New Evil, Understanding the Emergence of Modern Violent Crime. Now that is a read. Dr. Procato, that's a lot for one person to take in. I mean, I remember when my fiance was murdered. At first, I just assumed that there had been a car crash. And then I found out he was murdered. And frankly, I don't remember a whole lot after that. But to then learn that someone dismembered the person you love more than anything else in the world. I don't know how do you make a comeback after that? Extremely difficult because a person would have to make some kind of meaning out of what it is that happened in their life. Some kind of existential or spiritual meaning.

And to try to go out in the world and battle that kind of darkness so that other people don't have to experience it. And people that I've worked with who have been victims of violent crime, it seems to be the only way that they're able to make any sense of purpose out of it. But of course, my heart goes out to the family of this poor woman. Guys, what is happening? One set of remains found or spotted outside of home. Police finally get there after sending the civilian informant on a wild goose chase. When they get there, no more remains. It's gone.

They don't execute a search warrant. They do nothing, claiming they don't have enough evidence to execute a search warrant in the home. The next day, it's reported that there is a female torso found in a dumpster. Let's pick it up right there. Take a listen to our friends at Crime Online. The LAPD says that when they processed the scene where the torso and the back were found in a dumpster, the investigation provided detectives with information that led them to the residence of Samuel Haskell. Police are still not saying what they found that led the investigators to the Haskell residence. Detective Ephraim Gutierrez told ABC7 that officers made entry at the house and discovered evidence of a crime,

including some blood evidence and other items that they are not releasing to the public. The children have been located and are being cared for by family members. However, Haskell's wife and in-laws have not been located. Wow. So processing the torso, something about that bag in which the torso was placed, apparently in a plastic bag inside a black duffel bag, led them to the home of Sam Haskell IV. Who is that? Listen. Sam Haskell IV is the son of Sam Haskell III,

an Emmy award-winning producer who was a high-profile agent with Hollywood's William Morris Talent Agency, where he represented A-list stars like George Clooney, Whoopi Goldberg, Dolly Parton, and many others. Haskell IV lists himself as a director and posted several clips online of low-budget videos he wrote and filmed. Former Real Housewives of Beverly Hills star Brandi Glanville appears in one of the clips for a movie which appears to be a high school teen drama. Sam Haskell IV lives in a six-bedroom home in Tarzana with his wife Maylee Haskell, their three young sons, and Maylee's parents, Gaoshun Li, 72, and 64-year-old Yangzhai Wang.

¶¶ Yangzhai Wang. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Back to Alexis Tereschuk joining us, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. So Sam Haskell IV is the son of a high-powered talent agent who was known as the, quote, good guy of Hollywood the Miss America pageant for many, many years. Has, I think, still working with Dolly Parton in her Magnolia productions. I mean, the dad is renowned. In fact, I think he was the worldwide head of TV work for William Morris. Do I have that right? Haskell III.

The father. He was the head of the pageants. He separated from the pageant organization about a year ago. Right, over a dispute regarding some emails. Correct. Then that leads me to the son, Haskell Four. Now, from what I understand, this guy, Haskell Four, has directed a few things, including working with Tyga and Machine Gun Kelly, but he never reached the level of his father's

fame. Is that right? Correct. Not in any way, shape or form. And he mostly put things on social media where he would do videos, you know, on TikTok. Wait a minute. I'm so glad you said that. Let's take a listen to Sam Haskell for the fourth on social media, his TikTok. This is our cut 14. Like my resume says unhappy, bitter, resentful. Now I'm consistently never going to stop drinking. Shouts out to the waiter at the restaurant above Nordstrom's for just like completely burning out of my filet like what kind of a monster are you homie what what sydney can i hear that again like my resume says unhappy bitter resentful now i'm consistently never gonna stop drinking shouts out to the waiter at the restaurant above nordstrom's for just like

completely burning out of my filet. Like what kind of a monster are you homie? Okay. This guy, Sam Haskell, the fourth is living in a nearly $3 million home in Tarzana, which is a really beautiful area around LA. He's got an enclosed backyard. I've seen it myself with a gorgeous pool, a play area for his children, the works. It's a six bedroom home. And he is whining that he's unhappy, bitter and resentful. He's never going to stop drinking. Thanks for sharing. And complaining that the waiter at the restaurant on top of Nordstrom's, I guess it's at the Topanga Mall, I'm not sure.

Nordstrom's, which is a really expensive department store, burned his filet mignon. Wait, am I? Okay. burned his filet mignon wait am i okay alexis tell me about this area because i've seen it and it's really beautiful it is it's tarzana is part of los angeles county it's a little bit away from downtown it's in the valley but it so it's beautiful lush green homes you know very spaced out not right on top of each other at all. You know, tree-lined streets, really good schools around there, nice areas for your kids to play, nice, you know, restaurants and malls where you could take your kids, parks. You know, the dumpster, everything is right near a park.

Just a lovely area that for somebody who doesn't seem to work, you would think probably maybe his parents bought this very expensive home for him. And they just moved there in December of 2020. So in the middle of the pandemic, they moved. And joining me right now is a special guest. It is El Benami. Thank you for being with us. We're all trying to figure out what exactly is happening. You are a friend and neighbor of May and Sam Haskell IV. What can you tell us about them? So they moved to the neighborhood, like you said, in December 2020, January 2021, during the pandemic. And from the beginning, I did think that they were, it struck me that they were very different, Sam and May.

He was, she's extremely outgoing. Right when she moved in here, she came around and she introduced herself and she wanted to make plans with us and the kids. And he was not like that. He would, you know, say hello if I saw him on the street, maybe kind of like nod his head. He would smile, so he was outwardly friendly. But in the, I guess, three years that he lived next to us, I never actually had a conversation with him. But with May, it was very different. I had many, many long conversations with her, took many long walks, and can't say the same for him.

Question. You spent time with May, and I know that May lived in the home with her parents ages 72 and 64. What was she like? May was just a very sweet person, very generous, very sweet, very caring, would kind of get excited about small things, kind of a bit in like a, I guess, like a childlike way, which was very endearing. She loved to be around people. She threw many parties. She was very dedicated, dedicated to her three boys and always threw them really amazing birthday parties, really went all out. She, you. She threw parties for Chinese New Year. And she always loved to make plans,

make sure her boys have a lot of things planned out and also took them to many extracurricular activities after school, from music to sports to advanced math and so on. Okay, that is a mom that cares. I mean, I've been there, and I know the ages of her children, her three boys. you're constantly in the road taking one to music or this one to gymnastics or this one to soccer or whatever it is that they latch on to that they like and I mean I'm that way with two I can only imagine what it's like with three what was her relationship with Haskell for so I will say that she never really discussed her relationship with him with me. But just from observing them, I would say that they weren't close. They didn't have anywhere near a close relationship.

I would definitely not call it that. Never seen them be affectionate with each other. They never went on date nights. She never mentioned them going on a date. I never observed them going out anywhere together. They didn't go on vacations together. So she would go on vacation with her children and her parents. And he typically went on solo trips, I think, typically to Japan.

According to me, some of them were work-related for filming. They both, for example, like to take walks in the neighborhood. I never saw them take a walk together. You know, that's really interesting, Elle. Guys, you're hearing a friend and neighbor of May and Sam Haskell IV. Troy Slayton, I'm just trying to imagine this, where you go. I mean, maybe it's because of schedule, but I try really hard to make it so my husband and I can go on walks together or jog together. If I can't get him, I try to get one of the twins.

Just because that's 40 minutes to an hour that you can not just walk, but you can talk to each other. Nancy, that's something very important. I love to take walks with my spouse here in beautiful Los Angeles, but he lived with his in-laws too. And I'm not making any kind of excuse, but people sometimes in that situation feel trapped. They feel that there are no boundaries and starting to think about what some of the defenses might be psychologically for him. That he lived with his in-laws. Are you kidding me? I've got my 92 year old mother with us okay and you know who's the very sweetest to her my husband if he feels trapped he hasn't said so that's nice but a lot of people suffer tremendous psychological stress from living with their in-laws okay well

i can't wait to see how that goes over. Was that you, Elle, about to say something? Yeah. I was going to say that Mae's parents, they were, I mean, of course, I don't know what went on inside their home, but from what I could see, they seem to be extremely helpful anytime I observed them with the children. They always, both of them were actively, you know, chasing after them, helping. They, her mom cooked a lot, I think pretty much daily for them and for the kids. When May threw birthday parties, it was not Sam that helped in any way. It was her parents, even though they didn't speak English. They were constantly actively helping. And, you know, and her mom had suffered a stroke prior to COVID. And so she

she does she did use or she does use a cane to walk. That didn't stop her from being always on her feet and helping. You know, I'm just thinking about the dynamic you're telling us, but I want to circle back very quickly to something Alexis Tereschuk was reporting earlier. I want to go back to these day laborers, the construction workers. Take a listen to our cut to from Dave Mack. 25 miles west of downtown Los Angeles, in an area once owned by famed author Edgar Rice Burroughs and named for his famous character Tarzan, Tarzana is in the San Fernando Valley and has become a popular place for celebrities and those in the entertainment

world to call home. It's also where Sam Haskell paid a group of day laborers $500 to haul away three large trash bags that were in his garage. Speaking to NBC4 Los Angeles, the workers said Haskell told them the bags were full of rocks, but the workers said when they picked up the bags, they felt like there was meat inside. Realizing what they were carrying wasn't rocks, the workers pulled over about a block from Haskell's house to look inside the bag. Opening the bags, the men knew they'd been tricked. And more. Listen.

The men described the bags to NBC4 as soft and soggy, and each weighing about 50 pounds. A block away from Haskell's house, the workers opened up the bags and said they started seeing body parts, specifically a belly button. The men said they felt bad they'd been tricked, so they drove back to Haskell's house and left the bags in the driveway and gave Haskell his $500 back. Haskell played it off, telling the workers what they actually saw were Halloween props.

Not believing Haskell, the men drove immediately to the police. Okay, Alexis Tereschuk, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, joining us from L.A. What? So he hired some men, day laborers. You go to maybe Home Depot or somewhere like that. You say, hey guys, I've got some heavy things in my house. These men are usually big, strong men and they have trucks.

They come to your house. So that's what they did. They took the bags and he said, oh, they're rocks. Well, rocks are really heavy and they don't move. You can't squish them. But these bags were heavy and squishy. And the guys, their description was it felt like meat. So they were, you know, like a huge hunk of meat, squishy, but still a little solid.

They looked in the bags, they saw what it was. And what they specifically described was they saw a belly button, like the torso from, you know, above your waist, below your chest, below your neck. And that was horrific. So they took the bags back. The guy gave them their money. They gave the money back. And then they went to the police. They go to the first police station they could find. The police said, well, that's not actually our jurisdiction. Why don't you go to this other police station or call 911? These guys come in with, sure, it's a little bit of a wild story, but you should investigate this.

This is really, they're not telling you anything that is out of the norm in Los Angeles. Everything you're saying, I believe is correct. But what's jumping out at me is changing his story. First, the bag is full of rocks. Yeah. Then he says, oh, those are just Halloween props, even though it looks like human body parts. A natural human body. And then the next thing we know, a bag of human body parts turns up in a dumpster.

But let me take it back. Joining me is a neighbor of May and Sam Haskell IV. May, the mother of three little boys by Haskell. Elle, question. What, if anything, did you hear the previous night? So I was not home the previous night, but my daughter, she actually texted it to us that night. She heard what she thought was the youngest boy from their house or perhaps from the yard shout, hello, hello, help. And then she heard a car door slam and loud screeching, I guess, as the car drove off. Okay, hold on. Could you slow that down and tell me one more time?

Okay, so my daughter texted us at around 9 p.m. on Tuesday, the night before the torso was found, that she heard what she believed to be the Haskell's youngest boy coming to basically maybe from the house or from the yard, call out, hello, hello, and then help. And then she heard a car door slam really hard and a screeching sound, a loud screeching as it drove off. And joining me now is Dr. Trace Sargent, a search, rescue, and recovery expert, PhD in psychology,

focusing on victimology, star of a podcast, The Seeker's Quest. Dr. Sargent, thank you for being with us. You look specifically at predatory behavior. What do you make of someone that not only commits murder, but then dismembers the body? Well, Nancy, we look at several things, but I'd like to go back to Sam Hassel's, the fourth comment from social media.

That in itself tells us a lot when we're looking at it from a criminal profile perspective, behavioral analysis, psychological analysis. And what is glaring to me is that he perceives himself as the victim. And I would not be surprised when this case and this story moves forward that he presents himself as the victim and maybe even go as far as blaming the circumstances that led to the death of his wife and probably his in-laws that it was somehow their fault, not his fault. He will not take accountability or responsibility for his actions. Do you agree with that, Dr. Bricato?

Well, I have a few things to say about this case. And I think in some ways I'm sort of uniquely suited to look at it because it touches on two areas that have been major ones for me in my research. First of all, dismemberment and mutilation need to be distinguished. I worked with Dr. Ann Burgess, Dr. Victor Petreka, Michael Stone, Dr. Michael Stone, and we came up with definitions to distinguish those offenses. It's important for people to understand that dismemberment, according to our work, really means the destruction or removal of a large part of the body, the torso, the arms, hand, pelvis, legs, or feet. And any destruction or elimination of a smaller part thereof would be mutilation. And the reason it's important is there are differences in the

psychology and motives of people according to which of those things they're doing. What it sounds like here, we don't know how much butchery there was, but this sounds like dismemberment offense. And with dismemberment, we found in our research that the vast majority of offenders are doing that to get rid of body parts because of concern about capture. The outside, you know, looking in makes it seem like it's some kind of bizarre, psychotic, crazy thing to do. But the reality is, it's a pretty organized thing to do that's done by a person that's trying to clean up after they've eliminated people. Now, the other thing that I can kind of put to me in a unique position here is, I know that, you know, there's been a charge that this man has killed not only this

woman, but her parents, which would place him in the category of mass murder. When I was at Columbia Medical Center, I led the largest study ever done of mass murder. And what I can tell you is that in order to know the motives of a person who commits mass murder, we have to know what was used to kill. If a gun is used, there's a very low likelihood that the person was seriously disturbed or mentally ill. If something else was used, like a knife, then we start thinking that this was an individual who was unwell in some way. The statistics become, it becomes much more probable that the person was disturbed. If they use a knife, is that what you said? Yes, the use of a knife would be more of a giveaway that you were dealing with somebody that would be authentically odd interpersonally, a little more kind of unwell.

Right. Are you saying insane? Not insane, just odd, odd. For example, the individual might be paranoid or a little bit aggressive. Are you talking about someone that kills Andis members with a knife? Talking about someone who commits mass murder using a knife. Well, doesn't it go without saying that they're odd? Well, odd, when I say odd, I don't mean odd because you've committed murder or anything like that. I mean odd that even at baseline, the person would say peculiar things things would be a little bit kind of odd to the average individual,

hotheaded, a little paranoid, a little peculiar. And that matches what we're hearing in that weird recording from TikTok and some of these stories about the detachment and the coldness between the members of the family. Now, what's interesting about this is when we see these kinds of cases where, you know, there's been this explosive potential killing of a family and then there's dismemberment, there's usually one of two reasons it happens. One is elimination murder, as I term it, which is where the idea is to simply get rid of them because they are an impediment to something. Like, for example, I want to have a new romance, or I am trying to get my

hands on some money. The other that you see is some kind of domestic matter that causes an emotional disruption, and somebody in an absolute rage kills someone, and then has to kill everyone who has witnessed it in the family. So that what I would suppose, if it turns out that this is indeed a mass murder followed by dismemberment, was that there was some kind of hotheaded, angry, odd person who became enraged or had a motive to get rid of these people, did so and then attempted in a clumsy, weird way to hide it. And the reason it's so odd and the stories are ridiculous is often that the person is odd and lacks that kind of interpersonal empathy to kind of pick up that people would think these stories were weird.

Let's go back to the Haskell's neighbor, L. Benemy. L. question, I know you spent a good bit of time with May. Do you have any knowledge of Haskell having a fixation on martial arts and kept samurai swords and crossbows in the home? Yeah, so I did notice that about him. Um, I, I know that she mentioned that he would, um, direct or produce martial arts related, um, movies or videos, um, or that he would go on martial arts trips to Japan. Um, I believe, and I don't know why I

remember this, but I seem to recall that he may have a black belt or a couple of black belts in different martial arts. And then I did know about their having various weapons in the house, such as swords and samurai swords, I believe a crossbow, firearms. So that's definitely something that stayed very top of mind for me as a mom of four living next door. Did her May's children tell your children about all the weapons to the point you did not want your children alone at their home upstairs? Yes. So they did mention that to my kids at several points about, let's say, a samurai sword or pointing up to where supposedly a specific firearm was kept. So that made me very nervous about them going upstairs to one of the bedrooms. I did, of course, I trust May, and I did really like her three boys, so I was happy for them to play with my kids.

I just didn't want there to be any accidents because, you know, you sometimes hear about that on the news. So I wanted them to be somewhere where I didn't think, you know, a weapon might be pulled out to play with as a toy or whatever. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We are hearing various reports that Sam Haskell, the fourth, age 35, was obsessed with weapons and directed videos, very disturbing videos, with men fighting with swords and samurais, posting them under the name, the Instagram name, Tragic Streets with a Z on the end.

And this is a guy complaining about the Nordstrom's upstairs restaurant scorching his filet, his filet mignon. OK, in the last hours, Alexis Tereszczuk, we now know the case has progressed. What's happening now? So he has been charged with murder for the three people. Even though we don't have bodies for all three, the district attorney has charged him with murder and he has appeared in court. He was arrested last week, but because it was a Veterans Day weekend and a federal holiday, he did not appear in court until Monday. He has appeared in court. There is no bond.

He cannot bond out. There's no amount of money that he can pay to get out of jail right now. He has not entered a plea. The arraignment has scheduled for December 8th, so he will be in jail with no way to get out between now and then. And I assume the search is still ongoing in the outside chance her parents may still be alive, but don't LAPD, don't they believe that torso is in fact May? They do believe it is her. There are also two other cars missing that were registered to the parents, which I think could be, you know, a distraction tactic.

You know, they dump the car somewhere else and think, oh, the parents just left on their own. But it doesn't seem like that. But they do believe the torso belongs to her. Well, you know, I'm going to circle back to Troy Slayton on the fact that if Sam Haskell 4 has hidden the cars to make them appear to be stolen, that clearly shows he knows what he's doing and is taking measures to throw police off the trail. Dr. Michelle Dupree, how do we determine if that torso is in fact the mother of three, Mae Haskell? Obviously, the best way to do that is through DNA, which we should have plenty of to compare it to. When we have a torso and nothing else, and we don't have a presumed victim, it's much, much harder. In this case, however,

we should be able to determine that relatively quickly. To Chris McDonough joining me, Director of Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective, and host of the Interview Room on YouTube. What do you believe they found in that home? They're not saying. So Nancy, there's a couple of things, two points from an investigative aspect. Number one is the HSS team that's involved. Those guys are called the Homicide Special Section. And they only deal with high profile, like dismemberments, that type of stuff, serial killing. They're out of robbery, homicide downtown. The second to your question is, you know, the first question they're going to want to establish is, you know, did this individual have the mental capacity to know what they

were doing? So they went back into that house and they probably used, you know, various type of alternate light sources, blue star, you know, luminol, various type of alternate light sources, blue star, luminol, that type of stuff. And what they wanted to do was establish if in fact there's any blood evidence and or any other forensic evidence that immediately can establish how many people are potentially involved in this. And then they can take that DNA swab,

let's say hypothetically they found some blood, and they can put it through a machine called ANDI, A-N-D-I. And that is a rapid DNA machine. And what that does is just tells you, you have three types of DNA here. So that's probably what they're operating under currently, and that's why they charge them with three three victims. Even though, as of right now, the remains of the parents, the in-laws, have not been found. Troy Slayton, if Haskell 4 hid the cars,

there's no way he's going to be able to succeed. He might make a claim of insanity, but by hiding the cars or taking countermeasures to throw police off his trail, that clearly shows he knows what he did was wrong. Of course, right now, these are only allegations. Go ahead, Troy Slayton. Nancy, prosecutors would obviously, like yourself, would have used that as consciousness of guilt and taking steps to clear your tracks, to create alternate versions of how this could have happened, shows consciousness of guilt. And the fact that his arraignment was continued for several weeks is not unusual. That means his attorney gave up and waived his constitutional right to a speedy arraignment, which starts the preliminary hearing and then trial process. So that way his attorney can start to do their own investigation and maybe try to come up with alternate versions

of what happened. Maybe there was some sort of murder with other people involved. Maybe Haskell was involved. Maybe there was some other people involved as well. So the fact that this has been put over is not unusual. And what is unusual is for our district attorney here in L.A., Gascon, to charge special circumstances murder. You know, I love the way, have you ever considered creative writing because your theory that somebody else was involved? I love that theory. Well, I was an English literature major at UCLA, Nancy. Mm-hmm. Maybe there's a second career for you in that. I'm just trying to figure out also why this judge that just had Haskell IV in court is Judge Kimberly Baker Guillemette. She refused to allow his, Sam Haskell IV,

face to be seen. Why? Because his father is a multimillionaire? I haven't seen. No. Then why? That doesn't happen with anyone else. It's an open courtroom. It is an open courtroom, but the judge controls the courtroom. Yeah. So why is he getting special treatment? Because his dad is powerful? Why? There may be investigative reasons why. There could be considerations for family or victims.

They're dead! Well, there are three children, there are three minor children that are still alive and that he is the father of. And so there are other considerations. There are other people involved and that could be affected. And they don't even have the bodies yet for for a potential. Please. The judge did a backflip to protect this guy.

I mean, have you seen? Why is he getting special treatment? Because his father is a multimillionaire and he's a spoiled brat that complains about his filet mignon. You know, I want to go last to El Benami, friend and neighbor of May and Haskell 4, I'm just curious how you feel that he, Haskell 4, is getting special treatment. And we don't even know where May's head is. This is bass-ackwards. Right. I mean, I understand what he just said now about maybe something related to his kids. But I'm sure by now his boys know what's going on.

Yeah, I mean, of course, everything now is just allegations, but what he is believed to have done is completely outrageous, infuriating, um, that, um, I mean, I still, even a week later, nearly a week later, I can't even believe that. Um, I can't believe that that can be a reality. Um, so yeah, I, I don't think he should get any special treatment. I don't think that he will. When you were around him, what was he like, Elle? So I will say that, yes, he did come off as very eccentric and didn't have the same social graces that May had. He wasn't, you know, personally, he didn't come off as just, you know, a regular person. He wouldn't, you know, if I saw him on the street or in the car, he wouldn't necessarily avoid eye contact. He would just kind of nod and smile and sort of say hi.

Or if we walked past each other, say on the street, he would say, hi, how are you? I'm great. So it was very, I mean, a little bit fake, I guess, because I never actually had a conversation with him. So I wouldn't say that we were friendly, but he was really off to the side, kind of like I described, you know, saying hi, not ignoring anyone, but off to the side and disappearing a lot. You could kind of tell that he just didn't want to be there or didn't feel comfortable being around people or maybe having people at his house. I'm not sure. But yeah, he was off to the side. I never saw him have a conversation with any single person.

In fact, in the three years that he lived next to me. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.