Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Spray-Tan, Dating Sites, AA Meeting? Trail of Clues in Hiker-Mom Murder

Episode Date: August 15, 2023

While many questions remain unanswered, new details are emerging in the murder of mom-of-5, Rachel Morin. We are learning that Morin stopped in a tanning salon she frequented before hitting the gym with new boyfriend, Richard Tobin. Tobin reportedly dropped Morin at home before she drove herself to one of two 'Ma and Pa' trailheads. In a now deleted Facebook comment, Tobin stated that he and Morin's children began searching for her around 9 p.m. and Tobin called in a missing person's report around 11:30 p.m. Employees at the tanning salon where Morin reportedly kept a "daily appointment" say that Morin would keep them updated on her dating life, and was still actively using multiple dating sites, despite announcing her relationship with Tobin online. Police may be looking to men Morin matched with as potential suspects.  Police are also asking the community to submit tips on any information possibly related to the case. 5 dog walkers on the trail at the time of Morin's hike have been identified and questioned, hopefully helping investigators establish if Morin was alone, narrow down the timeframe in which the murder occurred, and find who did this to Rachel Morin.  Joining Nancy Grace Today:  Jessica Garth- Chief, Special Victims & Family Violence Unit, State's Attorney's Office, Prince George's County, MD Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst (Beverly Hills, CA), DrBethanyMarshall.com, @DrBethanyLive Ron Bateman- Sherriff- Former Homicide and Undercover Narcotics, RonBatemanBooks.com, Author of crime trilogy ‘Silent Blue Tears.’ Currently directing and producing a film documentary on the murders at the Capital Gazette Newspaper in Annapolis. Twitter: @Ronbatemanbooks  Dr. Jan Gorniak- Medical Examiner, Clark County Office of the Coroner/Medical Examiner (Las Vegas, NV), Board Certified Forensic Pathologist Vincent Hill- Anchor/Reporter for FOX 45 in Baltimore, Former Police Officer and Private Investigator, Author: “Playbook to A Murder”, Twitter & IG: @VincentHillTV  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A beautiful young mom murdered on a local hiking trail. What happened? In the last hours, we learned that law enforcement out on ATVs looking for her killer and also asking for the public's help. Take a listen to our friends, Fox Baltimore. More than a week has passed since the body of Rachel Moran was found on the Ma and Pa Trail in Hartford County. Police have made no arrest in her murder, and they're asking the community for help.

Meanwhile, speculation about what happened is running rampant on social media. Guys, you are hearing our friends at Fox Baltimore talking about the fact that social media has run rampant, her words, not mine, regarding the murder of Rachel Morin. But what are the facts as we know them at this hour? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Again, you are hearing our friends at Fox Baltimore talking about what's happening online, but what's happening in reality. Take a listen to Rob Weinhold, crisis leadership expert with Faulston Group, our cut-eye. Well, I'm quite certain the Sheriff's Department is working around the clock doing everything

possible to identify the suspect. But the longer this goes on, the more it exacerbates the fear in the community, right? And also speculation and conversation, a lot of which may be inaccurate. And so the Sheriff's Department has its job cut out for it and has to move methodically, move slowly to make sure that when there's arrest, it's also prosecutable. So very important for the Sheriff's Department to take its time and do what's right, but it doesn't do anything to lower the temperature of fear. Lower the temperature of fear. That's kind of hard to do when the public believes a killer is on the loose. And now take a listen to our Cut 34, our friend Rebecca Pryor.

Despite law enforcement swarming the area for almost a full day, Gaberzeski's stepdaughter locating the body in about an hour. Once we got down there and I started seeing them tunnels, I started getting goosebumps. The deadly discovery made in a tunnel drain not far from the trail's main entrance. I saw a terrible mess. Gaberzeski's visions meeting the reality of a gruesome scene. There's not going to be an open casket, I can guarantee you that. Images of Rachel Moran, the murdered mother of five, now mark the Ma and Pa trail.

And the Hartford County Sheriff's Office has been inundated with questions surrounding her death. A modern day whodunit. This case almost immediately attracted the attention of the national media, as well as from outlets from abroad. While the Sheriff's Office has 78,000 followers on Facebook Posts about Rachel's murder have reached 2 million people. You are also hearing our friends at WNAR with me, an all-star panel, to make sense of what we know right now. We also know that the law enforcement there in the area where Rachel was found is asking for assistance from the public. Is that ever a good sign? Again, with me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now,

but straight out to Vincent Hill, anchor reporter, Fox 45 in Baltimore, former cop and private investigator, author of Playbook to a Murder. Vincent Hill, is it true that local law enforcement is asking for help from the public? Yeah, Nancy, the Hartford County Sheriff's Office set up an email tip line and they've received over 300 tips. But right now they're looking for any witnesses that may have seen Rachel. Here we are over a week later and you alluded to it, Nancy. It's not a good sign that they're turning to the public because that tells me they may be limited on the amount of clues they have who killed Rachel. Right now, we know the timeline is being picked apart with a fine tooth comb.

Take a look at our cut 63 from our friends at News Nation. It appears to me that this is much more personal. I've seen homicide scenes where the face is just destroyed and that's for a reason because they are either so angry at this person and how attractive they may be that they're going to destroy that beauty because they've been rejected now the boyfriend and all this stuff they're they're going to have to get a timeline on his where he was and what he was doing because you gotta you've got what a five five and a half hour period here between the time she left and the time her boyfriend is calling in a missing person report. We're learning that some are reporting the boyfriend has an alibi.

And that alibi is that he was at an AA meeting. You've either known someone in an AA meeting. You've been in an AA meeting. You've seen it on TV or in a movie. Vincent Hill joining us, Fox 45. If he was in an AA meeting, there's going to be not only his sponsor, but other people who are also at that meeting. Isn't that true? Yeah, absolutely, Nancy. I mean, that could be verified very quickly because those meetings are usually scheduled around the same time.

It's usually the same people that attend those meetings. So if he was there, then someone can actually vouch for him very quickly and easily. You know, I noticed his wording. Joining me right now, Ron Bateman, sheriff, former homicide undercover narcotics agent. You can find me at Ron Bateman Books dot com, author of a crime trilogy, Silent Blue Tears. Ron, I noticed right at the beginning, he said when he was talking about his arrest record, which is, let's just say pretty extensive, 14 arrests since 2014, he said, I'm 18 months clean. When you hear the words 18 months clean, that does sound like somebody in AA. Absolutely, it does.

And someone that's trying to be sober, they always seem to know exactly how many months, days they've been clean. So it sounds normal to me. Dr. Bethany Marshall, they know it down to the day because a struggle against drugs or alcohol is a daily battle, a daily battle. It's got a hold of you and you have to fight it. With me is Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst joining us out of Beverly Hills at drbethanymarshall.com. Jump in, Dr. Bethany. You know, Nancy, not only is it a daily battle, but it takes a lot of time for the brain to recover from long-term addiction. It's like an injury to the brain.

It changes, long-term addiction changes the neuroreceptor sites. Think of the neuroreceptor sites as the stamen on a flower. First of all, when you throw around words like that, neuroreceptor sites, that could be anything. You could be talking about a nuclear reactor for all. A lot of people know. Look, I'm just a JD. All right. I'm not a shrink like you. Break it down for me, Dr. Bethany. When you have used alcohol, drugs, methamphetamine, pot, any substance, the brain begins to crave it. The brain becomes dependent upon it. So it takes months or years, depending on the substance, for the brain to stop craving that particular substance. So that's why time is

so important. If you have two months, eight months, 12 months, the longer you have, the less you crave that substance, the more you create a different life and different patterns that are no longer around using. So and yes, in 12 step NA, AA, the timing of how long the person has been sober is important because that kind of structure is very important for the recovering addict. He says specifically 15 months clean. Yes. Now, a lot has been made that Rachel Moran was on multiple dating sites before her murder. Seriously?

You got a mom of five breaking into the dating scene? Of course she's on multiple websites. I don't know why the stigma attached to dating websites. Sidney, did I ever tell you my nephew, smart, smart, smart, double major, chemistry, IT, awesome job as an IT troubleshooter. He met his now wife. Smart, smart, smart. Double major, chemistry, IT. Awesome job as an IT troubleshooter. He met his now wife on a dating website. And they have two children.

They just had another baby. I think they've been married, oh, gosh, five, seven years. So they work. Not all the time, but they do work. And there's such a stigma attached. I saw a banner, Jessica Garth joining me. Hey, Dr. Bethany and Ron Bateman, Dr. Jean Gorniak, we haven't gotten to you yet because we haven't, we're not discussing a dead body yet. Vincent Hill, everybody jump in. You know, Jessica Garth joining me, chief of the Special Victims and Family Violence Unit in Prince George's County. I hate it when a murder victim, a rape victim, any kind

of victim is smeared. And when I saw the banner, Rachel Morin on multiple dating sites, like that's a bad thing. That was actually the banner. Rachel Morin on, quote, multiple dating sites. Who gives a flying fig if she was on dating websites? I only care about it to the extent, Jessica, it could lead me to someone that may have been stalking her, that had seen her on one of these websites. But I don't like it a little bit when victims are somehow cast in this bad light. And another thing before you get started, the other day we were talking about other women that are attacked by strangers when hiking, jogging, exercising. And we were talking about Eliza Fletcher,

the Memphis mom who went out jogging at 4 a.m. This woman, she might as well have been a saint. People still attacked her because she was out jogging at 4 a.m. It made me so mad, I could have chewed a nail in half. And now this woman's getting attacked because she gets spray tans

and she's on websites. Who cares? Yeah, exactly, Nancy. I couldn't agree more. When I saw that headline, I immediately thought, oh, we're already victim blaming. We're already saying,

this woman shouldn't have been out running alone. You should always run with a partner. Oh, she was on multiple dating websites. You know, perhaps she had this come in, which I think is terrible, but I think you're right. I mean, if we use this information as a tool to either find, you know, other men that she might've been talking to who are suspects, or even if we use it as a motive, if it's something that would have upset her current boyfriend that could have led to this murder, then it is useful information in that way. But the use of it in any other way, I agree, it's pretty disheartening when we're talking about a woman who's been murdered. Nancy, I think I see something else in this. Well, maybe she was unhappy in her current

relationship. And he talks about, he started looking for her with the kids, they've been together, he posted online. And then he took those Facebook posts right back down again, which tells me that maybe this was a conflictual relationship. He's painting it as if it was a happy one. But if she was on dating sites, she wasn't committed to him. You know what? If you look at any relationship, you're going to find conflict. That's true.

There's going to be conflict of some nature. I don't know if it was enough conflict for him to take a rock and beat her dead. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace It's out there. Let's talk about it. The only thing that remotely interests me about her going to the tanning studio is that she, and it's spray tan, not where you lie in a tanning bed and get skin cancer is that it was part of her routine and we all know that routines are significant when a person has been kidnapped raped murdered someone may very well know their routine she had a routine down and hey before i go to this vincent hill and ron bateman i want to circle back to something i think Jessica Garth said or

Dr. Bethany about the boyfriend taking down posts. They may have been taken down at the behest of local law enforcement. But that said, take a listen to our Cut 66, our friends at Crime Online. In the hours leading up to her walking the Ma and Pa trail, the New York Post reports that Rachel Morin stopped at Glow, the bronzing studio in Bel Air, for her daily spray tan at 2 p.m. A source close to the salon told the Post that all the employees knew her and that Rachel told them she was on multiple online dating sites. This is just days after going public with her relationship status update on Facebook where the mother of five said she was in a relationship with Richard Tobin. According to a now-deleted Facebook post, Tobin met up with Rachel after her spray tan session and they went to the gym together. New York Post also reporting the couple went to Planet Fitness, where Marin is a black card holder who can use any of the company's facilities.

What is significant to me right now, Ron Bateman, and everybody jump in. If you have a thought on this, Ron Bateman, you can find him at ronbatemanbooks.com, former homicide detective. Ron is that I'm getting a timeline. That's what I'm interested in when it comes to her spray tan or her gym session. She's with the boyfriend just before she goes missing. She goes to the tan salon. She goes to the gym and that can be verified. You know, those gyms are covered in surveillance videos. So we can establish that. What do you make of it, Ron Bateman? I would be all over that gym footage, interviewing people that they worked out nearby, that worked nearby them, you know, working out with weights. I would interview them, people that they'd talk to, get the footage, and really do a deep dive into that, as well as at the salon. You know,

what kind of things do they say at the tanning salon, the spray tan salon? Was she talking about having problems? Things of that nature. Sydney's waving a note at me, gym after tan salon makes no sense. So she would get streaky. I don't know about that. But that's certainly something to take into account. Thank you for the investigative tidbit that she would get, quote, streaky. You know what, though? Unless she got the spray tan because she wanted to look good at the gym.

Because the fact that she was on all those dating sites, she was unhappy in her relationship, she wanted a new relationship, and the gym was maybe where she was meeting people. And, Nancy, this reminds me of Emma Nicole Simpson, O.J. Simpson's wife. She had the same narrow routine. Remember there in Brentwood, she went to the same tanning salon, she got her nails done at the same place,

she got her facials done at this one spa. It was all along San Fanny Boulevard. And that really told a story because women who go to the same establishments again and again, especially beauty establishments, they talk. They talk about who they're dating. They talk about whether or not they're happy in their relationships. And there's going to be a treasure trove of information there, especially if somebody on one of those dating apps was stalking her. You know what? She would have talked to that, talked to the person who was giving her her spray tan or giving her her facial or doing her nails.

They're going to know all about this. Guys, you're hearing the voice of Dr. Bethany Marshall. Another issue in addition to the whole. Oh, oh. And I wanted to back Sydneydney up on something although it's giving you a hard time about this streaky defense do you guys remember robin gardner just stunning as a matter of fact a couple of times i've thought of robin gardner when i look at rachel morn because they look very similar beautiful. Goes to Aruba with the kind of a boyfriend.

More like a friend boy. And never seen again. Became a big bone of contention. She had just had her hair done. I don't know if it was a permanent something to her hair. And no way would she have gotten that hair wet right after this treatment. And the story was that she had gone in the water and all of her friends said, no way did that happen. So I know it may seem, let's just say tangential to many sleuthers,

but actually it goes to what Dr. Bethany Marshall is saying. It's routine evidence, evidence of someone's routine. If you had just had your hair done, would you go jump in a swimming pool? Probably not. Same thing may apply here. That said, there will be surveillance video at the gym to determine what time she came and left. But I want to focus on one more thing. The issue of deleted posts. Take a listen to our cut. 67, our friend Dave Mack.

Richard Tobin has since deleted posts and set his social media pages to private. But the New York Post reported that in a since deleted comment, Richard Tobin dropped off Rachel at her home shortly before 5 p.m. The next thing we know about the timeline is that Marin went to the hiking trail and was last spotted sometime between the hours of 6 and 7.30 p.m. According to the New York Post, Richard Tobin wrote in a now-deleted Facebook comment, quote, she's been missing since 7 p.m. She went on a hike and me and the kids have been trying to find her since 9, unquote. Tobin reported her missing to authorities around 11 30 p.m. Joining us right now, Vincent Hill, anchor reporter, Fox 45 Baltimore. Vincent,

what do you know about deleted posts? Are there more? Yeah, there may be more, Nancy, but, you know, I think it's important to realize, realize like he could be deleting those for a few reasons because he's already said something that may be contradicted later or he's just tired of being blasted on social media which would be quite understandable because since day one everyone's looked towards him as being suspect so he may have deleted those just to kind of go incognito or, oh, I better delete these before police see them and realize I was telling a story. You know, interesting. He's placing himself with her just before she goes missing. Now, there's two ways to look at that. Everybody jump in.

Remember, Alex Murdoch was with his wife and son just before they were murdered and his defense was an unknown assassin came in in that sliver of time and murdered them before he comes back to the scene, his hunting lodge there in South Carolina to find his wife and son dead. So somehow, amazingly, the killer with split second timing swooped in and that hour plus murdered them and got away. Now, this is different. Yes, he, the boyfriend, is placing himself with the victim just before she's killed, but he doesn't swoop back in and find the body. He is away from her for many hours before the body is found. That makes it somewhat difficult, but we are learning that somehow, incredibly, the sheriffs have tracked down certain people that were on that trail, potential witnesses. Everybody, the questions I would love to ask these people.

Was she alone? What was she doing? Was she on her cell phone? Was she in distress? Take a listen to our cut 53, our friends at WJZ. The Hartford County Sheriff's Office has a new way to send in tips, and they say they've located people who may have seen Rachel Morin just before her death. Almost a week since Rachel Morin was killed on the Ma and Pa Trail in Bel Air, police are still trying to piece together her final moments. The Sheriff's Office says they've identified and contacted five people who were walking with their dogs between 6 and 7.30 last Saturday evening, who may be among the last to have seen Morin alive.

Did they see her alive? We don't know. Straight back to you, Vincent Hill, Fox 45. What do we know about these people? Five people, we've been told, three women, two men, and vice versa. Long story short, five people. What do we know? Five people that may have been there, Nancy, that day around that time frame. Did they see her? More importantly, if they did see her, was she alone? What was her state of mind? How was she acting? Was someone following her? There's a ton of questions that investigators

want to get from these individuals that may have been there and may have been the last people to see Rachel alive. And of course, Nancy, she was very distinctive looking. Anybody who's seen her photos, she's gorgeous. She has long, long platinum hair. She worked out, according to one report, three times a day she was on that trail. She was a regular. People knew her routine. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. She was on the trail three times a day? We have a woman who walked her dogs with her husband on a daily basis, and she said that they would see her out there three times a day. Three times a day? I don't know that the witness has that correct, but that said, it does enforce that witnesses have seen her there and would recognize her. And you know what's interesting? Jessica Garth, joining me, Chief of the Special Victims Family Violence Unit in Prince George's County, very often eyewitness testimony is attacked.

I've done it myself on cross-examination. In fact, it's laid out in the official criminal code. You can attack an eyewitness on the distance from which they were spotting the incident or the person, the lighting conditions. Were they being distracted by some other event? Do they wear glasses? Just was their view impeded? There's a million ways to attack an eyewitness. But that said, do you know that if I jog, run, walk during a certain time of the day,

almost every time I see this little old lady, I swear the woman is in her 90s. She can't weigh over 90 pounds. And she's always got a big smile and speaks to me. I would know that lady anywhere. I don't know her name. But I see her all the time. There's a particular dog I see all the time. Her name is Adele.

You know why I remember her? She's got one blue eye and one brown eye. This dog, right? So very often an eyewitness can be confused. But when you see something over and over and over again, it gets branded in your memory and it makes that ID that much more valuable. Yeah, that's right. I mean, the more often you see something, the longer that you see something, and of course, the closer that you see something, the more reliable your testimony is going to be as an eyewitness. But, you know, I think when we're interviewing these witnesses who may or may not have seen her on the trail,

you know, it's really important, not just whether or not she was alone, whether or not they saw somebody else on the trail, but we've been talking about establishing this timeline and how important that is. And, you know, these witnesses can be really crucial in that regard. They can say, you know, what time they saw her or if they were there, you know, she allegedly went running at 7 p.m. and they didn't see her at 7 30. We can narrow down the time in which she might have been murdered. And that's going to be really, really important as investigators develop a suspect in this case. When they get a statement from him or her, you know, they're probably going to have a timeline. And if they can, you know, sort of rebut that timeline with the time that they know that

she was actually murdered, it'll get us that much closer to a conviction. Dr. Bethany Marshall, we've gotten to the bottom of the mystery. You were right. It's not her, but this couple walked their dog three times a day, and they very often saw her while they're walking the dog. Guys, does this become significant? Yes, it does. These witnesses, potential witnesses, may be able to place Rachel Morin at a location at a certain time. That certain time may give the boyfriend an alibi.

What if he's at home cooking dinner? What if he's taking the children through Chick-fil-A or McDonald's at that time and there's a receipt showing it? Speaking of drive-thrus, here's a great example. Does everybody remember Drew Peterson, the devil from hell? He's convicted on killing. Let's see. I think that would have been third wife, Kathleen Savio. And then his next wife, Stacy Peterson's body has never been found. The night she goes missing, he and another male are seen going through a drive through. And many people believe that is the night he disposed of Stacey's body. So what if at the time these witnesses see Rachel Moran on the trail, the boyfriend's at a drive-thru or wherever he is, an AA meeting. So these witnesses can turn out to be very, very significant. crime stories with nancy grace

another issue and i want to take this to dr janorniak. We're now medical examiner joining us out of Clark County. That's Vegas board certified forensic pathologist, Dr. Gorniak. I find it really hard to believe that there wasn't a scream. There was no sound of an argument or a scuffle or in anything. When this lady was attacked, we've been told by a rock, which says to me, crime of opportunity, not planned in advance. My question to you is, if we never find the rock, the blunt instrument, wouldn't there be particles not seen by the naked eye in her head and face, the wounds that would indicate a rock was the murder weapon. It's possible that you could see some transfer from the rock.

My thing is with this case is nobody's confirming what her injuries are, except for the man who found her but didn't see her, but can say that she's not going to have an open casket. It's just so confusing. So, yes, to answer your question you would think if someone's being attacked like that there might be a screen but it might have happened so fast but how big is this rock it's just there's for me there's just so many unanswered questions she's naked Have they found her clothes? Was a sexual assault kit

performed? Are those injuries that are being reported really true? Does she have any defensive injuries? She sounds like someone who's really taking care. Are her nails done? Are her nails cracked? Was there any, you know, what other information do we have about what her cause of death is? And right now, all we have is possibly blunt force injury of the head. Now, it's very interesting, Vincent Hill, that while Michael G., who originally said he saw her body, found her body,

has been somewhat discredited. It may have been the case that his stepdaughter found it and he came upon it, or she told him what she found, what I find to be the most important part of what Michael G had to say is that his words themselves have not been discredited. He may be repeating what a stepdaughter told him. He may be recounting what he learned, but his actual words that she was found naked, face up, on a trail, and the right side of her face bashed in, which tells me, gosh,

if she were bashed in on the right side of her face, would that mean that the perp would have been using a left hand? Anyway, that's a whole nother can of worms. But what we're learning is... Yeah, Nancy, this is Dr. Gordy again. Real quick. So blunt force trauma, it doesn't mean it's like something hit her or her head or her head hit something. So she could have been pushed down onto the rock because the rock was bloody and I don't know how big the rock is. So not necessarily hit with the rock. Her head could have been pushed into the rocks. Then she was on her back. If she was on her back, how would that have happened?

Well, the person could have hit her, right, and then moved her. Do you believe falling on a rock would have bashed the whole side of her face in? Not falling. Someone forcibly pushing her into a rock. Interesting. Vincent Hill, what about it yeah nancy that michael person i was told by the sheriff he had no firsthand knowledge of the crime scene so he may have been going off what his what he says is his stepdaughter's words then she was the one

that called 9-1-1 saying she found rachel's body but we don't know exactly because the sheriff's office has not released or the medical examiner has not released her cause of death. We're just speculating on what he says that his stepdaughter told him. Did the sheriff ever say his words were not true, Vincent? But the sheriff's office told me Nancy was he has no firsthand knowledge of the crime scene. He did not find Rachel or witness her body okay so then no they're not claiming that that information is false it's just that he's not the one that found her first guys I want you to take a listen our cut 60 our friends at WMAR the public hungry for answers is gobbling up coverage of virtually anyone claiming

to have information about the case basically when we when we walked up, we saw fresh blood, and my daughter's boyfriend thought it was deer blood at first. Police say they're frustrated by such people seeking the spotlight. Obviously, there are people out there who are coming up with putting out information in the public that they have no firsthand knowledge of, talking about the crime scene that they have no firsthand knowledge of, talking about the crime scene that they have no firsthand knowledge of. I'm also curious to you, Ron Bateman, Jessica Garth, Dr. Bethany, Vincent Hill,

if she had been on these dating sites, is there an ex out there, an ex, or someone on these dating sites that she had rebuffed? Also, what do we know about her cell phone? Take a listen to our cut 58. This is Gigi McKelvey from the Pretty Lies and Alibis podcast at News Nation. I believe there are a few exes from the past that I'm sure they're looking into at this point. Anybody, I'm sure her phone is going to be a big source of information. Who did she last contact before she went to the trail?

The location pings. Did she go somewhere before? And also what's interesting is this trailhead backs up right to an apartment complex. It's literally in the parking lot of an apartment complex. I'm interested to see what kind of surveillance they have. Did they see her get out of her car and start down on the trail? You know, that leads me to an entire other line of reasoning, Ron Bateman. If this trail backs right up to an apartment complex, who in that apartment

complex could have been watching her every single time she went on a hike? Yeah, very true. There's only two places to park. I was there yesterday for two hours and there's one end, it's only six and a quarter miles long. And then there's the end, I believe her car was found. And yeah, that would be something that I would definitely be looking at. Again, more cameras at people's front doors. You know, are they seeing her? Do we catch it on camera, you know, with her getting out with someone else or someone following her, someone acting strange? That would be definitely a great investigative tool to search out. When you're ready, I'll tell you about my observations.

I'm ready. Tell me everything you observed. There's pretty much two primary areas to park to enter the trail. In the area I believe Rachel parked, it would be very important to look at people's cameras to see if she was alone, to see if someone was nearby watching her or talking with her or walking close behind her, something strange like that. So what I saw yesterday was several women walking alone, walking together, men and women walking, one person riding their bike.

The trail was occupied yesterday. There were three deputies on three separate four-wheelers that were riding up and down the trail. And I'm not trying to bash the sheriff's office. I'm sure they're doing a great job. three deputies on three separate four-wheelers that were riding up and down the trail. And I'm not trying to bash the sheriff's office. I'm sure they're doing a great job. But no one ever bothered to talk to me or my associate that was with me. And if I was the sheriff, I would make sure I would have all 10 deputies that are assigned to this, their business cards, you know, with those deputies riding the four-wheelers and handing them out.

You know, you need to talk to people. You need to find out, did you see anything? Do you know anything? Sometimes you got to pull it out of people. And if you give them a card, at least they leave with it. They'll be at home and they'll have something to refer to. If they say, oh, you know what? I did see something kind of weird. I'm going to call them anyway. Ron, did you see the spot where Rachel was killed? I believe so. Here's what's important, what I saw. And maybe these came from the dog witnesses, the dog walking witnesses. There were three detectives about 300 yards away from what i believe was the scene they were in the woods there were at least 30 yards off the trail in the woods at a unique location and they were walking around appeared to be looking for something

they weren't doing a systematic grid search or anything like that but they were walking around and that was was definitely key to me because it was so far from the scene and uh let me touch on this point real quick so like i was saying in the beginning if it came through or not it's a vast vast amount of woods there around this whole uh-and-pop trail. It would take hundreds, hundreds of police or deputies to search this area. And I believe if we were to believe the stepdaughter that this is such a violent crime, then there's going to be blood on the killer's shirt and pants. This time of year, you can leave the woods without a shirt. You can't leave without pants, without your pants. So I would believe they would strip that all pretty quickly so not to be detected by anyone

with blood on your shirt. And if you had blood on your hands, if you hit someone with a rock, you would have blood on your hands. You would wipe your hands off on your shirt. Curious about the location where you believe that Rachel was murdered. Was it on a curve? Was there anything around that spot where someone could have lain in wait? Yes, yes. There are smaller tunnels. I was looking at those. I was looking because I believe also a crime of opportunity.

I was looking for where this impression of possibly a rock could have been. And that also can lead you down the path of, you know, were they lying in wait? You know, were there cigarette butts near where this impression where the rock used to be? But yes, there is, to answer your question, smaller tunnels that were right next to the big tunnel, there's at least two that I saw. Guys, again, the focus is not only on the boyfriend, which is to be expected, but beyond with law enforcement asking for tips from the public. Does that mean they don't have a clue? Are they misleading the real target? Take a listen to our Cut L, our friends at Crime Online. Many are questioning why it took Rachel Morin's boyfriend, Richard Tobin,

nearly five and a half hours to report the mom missing. Several Facebook users pointed to Tobin's statement that he's, quote, 15 months clean and thought that the 27-year-old may have been attending an AA meeting at the manhouse. The home houses recovering male addicts that have been formally diagnosed with alcoholism or chemical dependency, also hosting meetings open to the public daily, with three options on Saturday, the latest scheduled for 7 p.m. The significance I find in that, Vincent Hill, is that if he was at one of those meetings, that would explain the delay in reporting.

And often, just human nature, when somebody's late coming home to supper or late for whatever event, you don't immediately think, oh, they've been murdered. You wait. You wait a couple of hours and try to figure out what's happening. Try to call them. Try to contact them. And I believe that his cell phone should indicate that's what he was doing, trying to reach her. What do you make of that, Vincent? Yeah, absolutely, Nancy.

I mean, if he was at this meeting, A, that can be verified. And also, we don't know what conversation the two may have had before she went to the trail. She may have said, hey, I'm going to go to the trail and then stop by my friend's house, grab some dinner and come home. So you're right. You don't immediately think it's been three hours. Something has to be wrong because at the end of the day we're adults we go out we go and live our lives so there was nothing to float to say oh something's wrong immediately let me add to that it's definitely really important to get a hold of her cell phone to a search for it and get the voicemail let's face it they were in an argument there might be a nasty voicemail that he left to her or an apology. I did that. We're also learning from the people that saw her routinely that she would usually have earbuds in or listening to music. Did that make it easier for someone to attack her?

Dr. Bethany, jump in. Well, I think there's a huge story hole in all of this to me, and that is that not one friend has come forward. We know the people who saw her on the trail. She was only with this new boyfriend for a number of months, and he says he went looking with the children. I mean, that's a very close bonded relationship for a family that you've only been with for a few short months. So what about her friends? Where were they? What about the people at the salon?

There are no stories that I'm hearing from people who knew her well and knew her routine or who could even talk a little bit about her relationship with her boyfriend. Dr. Bethany Marshall, we're learning a lot about her life. What's your observation? Well, Nancy, there was an older couple who was interviewed who said that she was a cleaning person in their home. Apparently, she owned her own cleaning service. And so that told me not only was she beloved, because they said they really liked her, but she was a hard worker taking care of those five kids all on her own, scrubbing other people's toilets, cleaning their windows, sweeping their floors. This was a person who was not afraid to do whatever she had to do to take care of her family. And so when all that information comes out about the dating apps and, you know, attempts to smear her character, we have to remember the true core of who she was, which was somebody who would do anything to take care of the people around her.

If you know or think you know anything about the disappearance and death of Rachel Morin, please dial 888-540-8477. Repeat, 888-540-8477. Repeat. 888-540-8477. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.