Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - SQUATTER-NIGHTMARE-TURNS-MURDER: Woman Bludgeoned DEAD, Stuffed in Duffle

Starting point is 00:00:00 This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. How does a tennis star, a beautiful mother, end up dead, stuffed in a duffel bag. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories and on Sirius XM 111. First of all, take a listen to this. Michael Medvedev takes a closer look at the duffel bag he discovered in a closet.

Starting point is 00:00:45 He notices the bag is an odd shape and moving a coat out of the way. Medvedev sees a foot. He calls the fire department and they arrive about the same time as police. They determine the dead body in the bag is Nadia Vittel. The medical examiner wants to save as much evidence as possible, so they leave the body in the duffel bag for transport to the medical examiner's office. Removing the bag reveals a large blood stain. You're hearing our friends at CrimeOnline.com. We take a close look at a duffel bag inside of a closet and realize something is horribly wrong.

Starting point is 00:01:21 Again, this is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us. How did a tennis star mom. And nobody knew a thing. Where did this happen? Was it a private home? Was it in the suburbs, a rural area? What? So it actually took place in Manhattan, New York City, and it was in her apartment building. So a big apartment building picture that and around the 19th floor. You know, that's even more of a conundrum for me to Bernarda Villalona, high profile criminal defense attorney in this jurisdiction, former prosecutor at VillalonaLaw.com. You'd think, wouldn't you, Bernarda, that someone on the other side of that wall heard something? I mean, the woman, I'm not sure if she's been dismembered or just folded up, contorted into a duffel bag. I mean, it's kind of hard to

Starting point is 00:02:33 look at her with that beautiful smile and know she ends up contorted in a duffel bag, but nobody on the other side of that wall heard a thing. Exactly, Nancy. this is so disturbing because you have to think she was actually killed she was actually beaten so i'm waiting to see what the autopsy results are but you know that her manner of death was as a result of a homicide it was as a result of the hands of another so no 911 call nobody heard anything nothing from the neighbors. No one saw anything like a body wasn't discovered for days. Nancy, what are we doing? This is New York City, the city that never sleeps. Well put. Joining me is Irv Brandt, guys, former U.S. Marshal, author of Flying Solo, Top of the World on Amazon. You can find him at IrvBrandt.com. He's writing a series of books. Hey, Irv, you have investigated and solved so

Starting point is 00:03:26 many cases literally around the world, having worked with DOJ and many, many other capacities. Irv, this woman did everything right. She ate correctly. She exercised. She was devoted to her son. You know those people that never smoke and then suddenly they die of lung cancer? It's like this. Irv, she did everything right. I mean, this is one of the most physically active victims I've ever seen. And yet crime managed to cut her life short. Does that like rub you wrong in some way, Irv? Of course it does, Nancy. I mean, it's why every police officer gets into the field that they work. Bad things happen to good people sometimes.

Starting point is 00:04:17 You know what? I don't like the way you put that. You kind of like laid back about it. Bad things happen to good people. Well, you know what? Not on my watch. But that is what happened to Nadia Vittel. Guys, I want you to take a listen to what her son says.

Starting point is 00:04:34 She got on a plane and flew from one of the biggest cities in the world by herself with some money and a few tennis rackets to Stillwater, Oklahoma. She played tennis there. She studied. It took her three years to finally figure out what the Greek letters on some of the houses meant. It all made no sense to her. Hallie Jacobs joining me, CBS 21 News. Hallie, tell me about this woman. I mean, she flies from one of the biggest cities in the world alone with money and a couple of tennis rackets to Stillwater, Oklahoma to play

Starting point is 00:05:14 college tennis, right? Yes, yes, she does. And, you know, it's really great to see exactly what she does with it. She makes a terrific career out of it. She really helps her son. You know, her son, when he was speaking, he was talking about how much she supported him and his dreams. And it was just really incredible to see. So it's sad to see exactly what's happened to her now. Guys, I want to find out more about this tennis star mom who ends up folded up in a duffel bag and stuffed in a closet. Did you hear what was said at the very beginning when they removed the duffel bag? There was a big blood stain left. That is what has happened to this devoted mother. She devoted herself to two things, tennis and her son, working, working her fingers to the bone to support her son and make everything wonderful for him.

Starting point is 00:06:20 That's who she is. Correction, that's who she was. Listen to more from her son, Michael. Mama grew up an only child in Moscow with Anya and Gera, her parents. She grew up playing tennis from the day she was born. She never sang, never performed. She was the furthest someone can get from being theatrical. I remember she showed me a gold medal when she had earned it in high school back in Russia, a student medal of honor for being top in her class. That medal, for some reason, has always stuck with me. It made me feel proud to be her son, and I wanted to earn my own gold medals to to live out there. Joining us, Dr. Gary Bricato, clinical psychologist and author of The New Evil, Understanding the Emergence of Modern Violent Crime.

Starting point is 00:07:15 Boy, do we need a shrink. Did you hear what her son said? said this woman goes all by herself as a teen girl with a couple of tennis rackets and flies across the world to become a tennis star at college in Oklahoma. She works her fingers to the bone to become a star and then spins that success into an incredible sports related PR career, all the while devoted to bringing up her son, Michael. Did you hear what he said about the gold medal, how she showed him the gold medal? That was something she wanted to share.

Starting point is 00:08:05 She was proud of it, so proud she showed it to her son. That just breaks my heart, Dr. Bricado. Absolutely. You know, it's interesting, you know, sometimes when we think about cases like this, we really see the division between people who come from good backgrounds, who are people who have people who love them and care about them, and people who've had a rough road in life, who feel a kind of entitlement to take from the world. And you get both of them, I think, kind of exemplified in this case. Just thinking about her and the significance of showing that medal. You know, everyone tries to look good in the eyes of their children, right? You want them to love you and be proud of you.

Starting point is 00:08:55 But I'm just thinking about the poignant moment that Nadia takes out her gold medal that she won, I think they said in high school, to show him. And now this is just there's something so poignant about that. Dr. Gary Bricado, what is it? Well, because I think a medal is an emblem of of what you get when you've worked really hard towards something and you're disciplined and you have a goal in mind. It's the complete opposite of the kind of life that we would envision and the kind of people who would have done something like this to this woman. And then you think to yourself how sad it is that randomly because of someone just in the wrong place at the wrong time, all of the things that she did sort of came to an abrupt end unfairly.

Starting point is 00:09:47 Well, I disagree with you, Dr. Gary Bricado. Tell me. No offense, because I'm certainly no shrink, but I hardly think that being in her own mother's apartment is being in the wrong place. She was in the right place. Somebody else was in the wrong place. She was in the right place. Somebody else was in the wrong place. It's so rare that I actually get to disagree with you. Let me just enjoy the moment just for one moment.

Starting point is 00:10:13 I think that's a brilliant point. Irv Brandt, another thing, and I'm getting to the duffel bag and all that, but in our line of business, crime, do you ever just get weary with really wonderful people becoming crime victims? It's not like this woman was out selling crack on the corner. She's not the mastermind of a criminal enterprise. She's not a bad person that is mean to people, that is a bully, that takes advantage of other people and preys upon people weaker than her or less talented than her. That's not who she is. She's a hardworking, loving mom. Now, why the hey? Does somebody like her? Why does

Starting point is 00:11:02 she have to end up in a duffel bag, Irv Brandt? That never bothers you? It bothers me a lot, Nancy. And these are the type of cases, they're just tragic, and they're hard to investigate. It wears on you from years and years and years of conducting investigations, going to crime scenes, talking to the victim's family, these type of cases where

Starting point is 00:11:27 the person you know was doing the right thing, like you said, was in the right place, wasn't in the wrong place at the wrong time. They were in the right place. They were where they were supposed to be doing the things that they were supposed to do. And then this happens anyway. It tears at your soul, Nancy. It's hard. It's hard even for an investigator who's been doing it for years and years and years. It's hard to do. It's hard to conduct an interview with the victim's family without yourself getting choked up and getting emotional when you know that you

Starting point is 00:12:06 can't because you have to be a professional at all times. And you can't go off and let yourself be full of rage and, you know, let your emotions take over. But absolutely, it's hard, Nancy. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A beautiful tennis star, a mother, folded up, contorted, smushed into a duffel bag? Why? What more do we know about Nadia Vittel and her movements the day she was murdered? Listen. Nadia Vittel learned to play tennis growing up as an only child. She went on to become a tennis star in college and after graduation

Starting point is 00:13:02 became a skilled sports marketing specialist. Traveling the world, Vittel recently returned to New York from Spain to prepare her late mother's apartment for a friend to have a place to stay in the city. Now I know what Dr. Gary Bricado was saying earlier about being in the wrong place at the wrong time and I called him on it, but that's where she was. And let's focus in on the day that she goes missing. I believe the day she was murdered. Why was she there at that moment? Listen. Nadja Vittel spends a couple of days moving personal items into an apartment in Manhattan's Kips Bay.

Starting point is 00:13:38 And she's captured on security cameras going in and out several times on March 10th. Vittel spends two days on long island then on march 12th heads back to the kips bay apartment vitel's son michael medvedev talked with her that tuesday but after the 12th she isn't answering calls or returning texts after two days of no contact medvedev called police to do a welfare check on his mother waiting for the police medvedev convinces the building super to let him into the apartment. Walking through the apartment, nothing seems amiss. Except his mother's not in the apartment. As they're walking out, Medvedev notices an unfamiliar duffel bag in the closet.

Starting point is 00:14:14 Back to Hallie Jacobs joining us, reporter CBS 21 News. Hallie, again, thank you for being with us. So, did the son know for sure his mother was at her mother's apartment? Is that why he went there? Did he know she had been there? Yes. I mean, she was supposed to be there for the past couple of days getting the apartment ready. Now it had been vacant for months. So she went in there expecting to be the only person there. And now he finds her possibly in a duffel bag. And he didn't even know what he was seeing at first. I mean, the superintendent of the building said that he pointed to the closet

Starting point is 00:14:51 and he believed that there was a body in the bag and all the clothes in the closet were down. So you couldn't even really see the bag. You could only see it partially a bit. And the son just knew that it needed to be checked. So let me understand, Hallie Jacobs, the clothes had been torn down off the clothes racks and they were on top of the duffel? Yes. So the duffel bag was only being shown partially. Oh, my stars. Dr. Gary Bricado, I need to shrink now more than ever. Bricado, clinical psychologist and author, to think that your own son is the one to find your body. I mean, how much more anguish can you heap on someone? Number one, you lose your mother and then you find out she's murdered.

Starting point is 00:15:37 Then you find out she's stuffed in a duffel bag. And then you're the one that finds your dead mom. There's no question from people I've worked with who have discovered bodies or been at crime scenes that it leads to years of personal psychological anguish, emotional anguish. Sometimes for the perpetrator of the crime, it's part of the horror to create a situation where somebody is going to chance upon a loved one. I think in this case, it was more a reflection of the kind of chaos and impulsivity of the of the scene. And it just happened to be that there wasn't very much care taken about how the individual was going to be found by anybody. You know, another thing about that, let me go to you, Bernardo Villalona, high profile lawyer in this jurisdiction at VillalonaLaw.com. Bernardo, you've dealt with a lot of crime victims, as have I. And speaking as a crime victim, I have relived

Starting point is 00:16:38 and dreamed a million times the last time I saw my fiance before he was murdered. And I can only imagine what it would be like to find his murdered body. Victim's families don't get over that for the rest of their lives. And the a-holes who murdered her, I'm sure they're like animals. They have no concern for the family of the victim, the victim, whoever finds the victim. I mean, how do you do it as a defense lawyer and former prosecutor? How do you represent people that have no regard for anybody else but themselves?

Starting point is 00:17:29 Number one, don't be alone in a room with them. Okay, let's start with that. Go ahead. And Nancy, just to put everything in perspective, I used to be a homicide prosecutor for 10 years. So I was used to dealing with these homicide investigations, dealing with these family members, dealing with these witnesses. And you're right, this son will never forget that moment and will constantly question himself. What if I accompanied her? What if I was with her? What if I called the day before or even two days prior? Could I have stopped this from happening? So when it comes to exactly representing individuals that are accused of committing a homicide, look, stick to the facts, stick to the law. Am I providing effective assistance of counsel to these people and advocating for them for in their best interest?

Starting point is 00:18:16 But it is very difficult prosecutor side and also the defense side, because we're still human. And we also still feel for these victims who have lost their lives at the hands of another person. Man, that son to find his own mother. Okay, you know what? I could talk about that all day, but I want to get down to the facts. Listen to Dave Mack, Crime Online. The investigation into the death of Nadja Vittel starts with her injuries. Vittel suffered blunt force trauma to the head, multiple facial fractures, a brain bleed, and two broken ribs. From there, investigators move on to the surveillance cameras in the building. Her body is found on Thursday, March 14th. Investigators found surveillance video

Starting point is 00:18:53 showing Vittel bringing her personal items into the building on the 10th. Vittel leaves the building just after 11 a.m. on March 10th. Okay, let me understand how this happens. Investigators find surveillance video showing her bringing items into the home. Remember, her mother had passed away. And so she was cleaning out the apartment next person to live in the apartment can only be a family member or else it goes on the market. That's the way it works. So let's hear more what else was happening while this beautiful young mom, Nadia, is moving things in and out of her mom's apartment. Listen to Rachel Bonilla, Crime Online. At the same time, Vittel is bringing items into the apartment.

Starting point is 00:19:49 Haley Tejada and Kensley Alston are seen trying to enter the building around 2 p.m. on the 10th. One hour later, Tejada and Alston are on camera in the building and seen on elevator surveillance camera entering Nadia Vittel's apartment. Okay, wait a minute.

Starting point is 00:20:06 Who are they? What. Who are they? What? Who are they? Hallie Jacobs, you're joining us, CBS 21. Who are they in relation to her son Michael or to her, Nadia? They're nobody. They're squatters. Isn't that true? That is correct. Sources say they were squatters. Hallie Jacobs, what do you mean by squatters? So they were staying there when they weren't supposed to be there. They went into the apartment, were staying there for who knows how long at this point. And apparently they were away while Nadia was moving into the apartment herself. And then they came back and we know what happens. So Nadia had no idea that squatters were living there. She thought she was just moving things in and out of the apartment. No idea.

Starting point is 00:20:50 Right. Exactly. And apparently the superintendent says that he had no idea that anybody was living in that apartment as well. So squatters sneaking around trying to live in her mom's apartment. We see them on video going in the apartment. What happens next? Joining me right now, a renowned medical examiner, Dr. Kendall Crowns, the chief medical examiner

Starting point is 00:21:16 in Tarrant County, that's Fort Worth, lecturer, University of Texas, Christian University Medical School. Dr. Kendall Crowns, thank you for being with us. Fort Worth, never a lack of business there for you anyway. Sad to report. Dr. Crowns, explain to me what happened to this woman. So from the reports, it appears that she had had blunt force injuries, predominantly of the face and head. So they probably, based on the facial fractures, the bleeding of the brain, they

Starting point is 00:21:45 probably used a hard object to hit her in the head with multiple times, which resulted in injuries, the facial fractures, and then the hemorrhage of the brain. Once the brain starts hemorrhaging or gets contusions, you pretty much will die quite rapidly after that. You know, Dr. Kendall Crowns, have you ever heard of the Farmer's Almanac? I have. Okay. Have you ever read one? No.

Starting point is 00:22:09 I didn't think so. Or you would know exactly how much you sound like you're just reading the Farmer's Almanac and the crop report for next year. We are talking about a mother who is bludgeoned dead. Her son finds her shoved into a duffel bag. And Hallie Jacobs, joining us, CBS 21, didn't he see a foot? Was a foot protruding? As far as I'm aware, he just saw the duffel bag. I've heard reports that he actually sees a foot. I don't know if he realized that was his mother's foot. But Dr. Kendall Crowns, could we just slow it down a little bit?

Starting point is 00:22:49 I'm just a JD. You're the MD. There's so much to take in, Dr. Kendall Crowns. So let me just start at the beginning. Let me get my mind off of the mom's foot sticking out of the duffel bag, according to some reports. I've got that Nadia suffered blunt force trauma to the head, multiple facial fractures, a brain bleed, two broken ribs. That's a lot. Then somehow she's contorted to fit into a duffel bag. Let's start with bleeding to the brain. How does that happen

Starting point is 00:23:29 and what is the result? So how that happens is when you have blunt trauma to the head, your brain has small vessels that come out of the top of it that attach to the dura, which is a lining on top of the brain. When you get hit, these vessels tear and they rupture and that starts causing bleeding of the brain parenchyma that then results in swelling of the brain that compromises the brain's ability to do its job. Bleeding to the brain in itself can cause death. How? So blood occupies the space. Your skull is only so big, and the brain doesn't have much room in there. So once blood starts filling that space, it can compress the brain, and that can result in the brain malfunctioning.

Starting point is 00:24:16 Also, the blood itself is an irritant to the brain, which results in an inflammatory response that can also cause disruption of function of the brain. So there's a number of ways the blood can affect your brain's function. So we've got brain bleed, two broken ribs. Let's talk about multiple facial fractures. What does that mean? The orbital bones, the jaw, what? So facial fractures, that's basically the front of your face. It can be orbital bones, nose, the cheekbones are also known as the zygomatic arches, the upper jaw, maxillary,

Starting point is 00:24:53 all that is considered facial bones. So any strikes to these areas cause fractures of the facial bones. Usually a fist isn't going to be able to break like your cheek so well unless you're very strong. So often we see injuries like that they've used some sort of object to beat the person with. That was my very next question. Could these injuries have been affected by fists alone or do you think an object, a blunt object was used? I would guess more likely than not an object, but if they get her down and then they're pounding on her face directly on the ground, they can get more force that way. So again, it just depends on how her body was, but usually with facial fractures, you're dealing more

Starting point is 00:25:36 with an object. Joining me is Dr. Kendall Crowns, Chief Medical Examiner in Fort Worth. That's Tarrant County. Again, doctor, thank you for being with us. So I believe we've established that she was beaten with an object. Most likely she has bleeding to the brain. She has multiple fractures to the delicate bones in her face. She has two broken ribs. Now, I believe that broken ribs are caused by direct punches or kicks. What do you think? That would be a safe assessment. Usually, broken ribs are from direct punches to the chest or kicks for that matter. But that's occasionally you can get them from falling onto an object like a desk or something of those natures. But in a blunt force injury situation, it's someone punching

Starting point is 00:26:24 you in the chest or kicking you. I'm thinking she was already down and they were kicking her, kicking her mercilessly, I might add, because she happens to walk in on them while they're squatting in her mother's home, unbeknownst to her. What would have been her actual cod when we say blunt force trauma what does she bleed to death does she have a heart attack does the blow itself cause her brain to stop working but what do we know so it can be a number of things the the fractures of the ribs can cause difficulty breathing but mainly the blunt trauma to the head is going to cause the bleeding of the brain, which causes swelling of the brain, which causes the brain to no longer function properly because it starts pushing on the structures that control your breathing and

Starting point is 00:27:14 respiratory or your respiratory rate and your heart rate. So it's the damage to the brain and the bleeding of the brain that's causing death. Another surefire clue out to Hallie Jacobs, CBS 21, is the puppy. She had a little dog that her son describes as her best friend, her man, the only man she needed. This puppy gave her all the love she needed to get through difficult things. And more importantly, her dog had urinated all over the floor because it was unaccompanied. Was the dog left in the apartment, Hallie? Yes. So sources say that the dog was left in the apartment. We don't really know exactly for how long, but until her body was found. Isn't it true, Hallie Jacobs, that there were also many signs of a struggle inside the apartment? From what officials can say and what they saw, I would guess so.

Starting point is 00:28:16 Somebody was talking about how officials say that her head might have been smacked against a wall as well. So definitely signs of a struggle, I would say. So the fire department is called and they open the duffel bag and they find this mom. To Dr. Kendall Crowns, how difficult is it to contort a body to stuff into a duffel bag? So depending on the size of the individual, if you push them into the duffel bag before rigor mortis sets in or the body stiffening, it's actually not all that hard to shove them into a bag and then bend their body into a ball and then close it off. How about if rigor, rigor mortis is already set in? What about that? So once rigor sets in, it actually becomes more difficult because the body is stiffened and then it's harder to contort them into a small object. But you can break the rigor if you force the extremity or whatever is stiffened up.

Starting point is 00:29:14 Once the rigor is broken, then the body becomes flaccid again or floppy, and then you can force them into a small object. How do we know who did this? Well, here's a good clue. Two people begin immediately using her bank and credit cards. Okay. Take a listen to Dave Mack, Crime Online. NYPD Police Chief Joseph Kenney says Holly Tejada and Kinsley Alston were squatting in Nadia Vittel's apartment. When Vittel returned to the apartment March 12th, she confronted the squatters who proceeded to allegedly beat her to death and cram her body into a duffel bag. Tejada and Alston

Starting point is 00:29:50 allegedly threw Vittel's personal effects and more in the trash, then left the building in her Lexus SUV. Using Vittel's bank cards, Tejada and Alston charged their way to Pennsylvania. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Holly Jacobs joining us CBS 21. So let me understand. Immediately these two idiots start using her credit cards and bank cards? Absolutely. They're taking, they took her Lexus. We have the security cam footage of them inside the Lexus driving all the way down to Pennsylvania and most likely using her bank cards and accounts to fund their way to that area. As you know, joining us, Irv Brandt, who has literally traveled around the world hunting down wrongdoers. Irv Brandt, what about these two? They're not even smart enough to cover their tracks. They're actually, like Hansel and Gretel and the breadcrumbs,

Starting point is 00:31:00 they're leaving a trail a mile wide by stealing her car and using all her credit cards. OK, so number one, they're squatters who are living in the grandmother, Nadia's mom's apartment in a beautiful building in downtown Manhattan. They're squatting. Number Manhattan, they're squatting. Number one, they're thieves. They're very secretive. The super in the building didn't even know they were living there. So they're living the life of Riley in somebody else's apartment.

Starting point is 00:31:35 Then when Nadia comes home to clear out the apartment, they ensue, a struggle ensues, and they beat her dead. Did you hear Dr. Kendall Crowns explaining everything that was done to this woman? The severe beating and likely kicking to the ribs that killed her, blunt force trauma to her head, fracturing all the delicate bones in her face, then that's not enough. They have to steal her car and use her credit cards. I mean, we don't allow the twins to say the S word,

Starting point is 00:32:16 which is stupid, but how much more stupid could they be? Nancy, they couldn't have been any more stupid. They gave it no thought whatsoever. They, when they committed the murder, they, one, a manner that just showed just a fit of rage uh dr crowns the way he explained it the the injuries i've come across as some beatings of people being beat to death before and i can tell you what happened uh she was beat then knocked to the ground. Then they say she wasn't punched. They stomped her. They stomped her face. They stomped her chest.

Starting point is 00:33:12 Then they stuffed her into a closet, knowing damn well that they're on, when they left, they're on video. They were squatting in this building. They know there's cameras in this building. And they know that they're going to be seen leaving the apartment. Then they take the victim's car, which they know is going to be reported stolen, and use the victim's credit cards, which they know are also going to be reported stolen. There was no thought to this whatsoever. This was complete impulse by these individuals. You know, I'm looking at a shot of the inside, the inside of the closet, and I see this mom's blood everywhere

Starting point is 00:33:58 in the outline of the duffel bag. It's the reason I can see the outline is because it's ringed in blood. And when I think about these two depraved animals that set up the scenario for her son to find his mother dead, stuffed in a duffel bag, according to some reports, her foot visible. So who are these guys? Take a listen to Rachel Bonilla, Crime Online. Once Vettel's body is found on the 14th floor, her Lexus is reported stolen, and the U.S. Marshals are able to track Tejada and Alston to Lower Paxton Township, Pennsylvania. There, the couple are involved in a traffic accident, March 13th. Alston gives police a fake name, slowing the process of clearing the accident.

Starting point is 00:34:46 So they steal the car, and then to top it all off, they're involved in a traffic accident? Bernardo Villalona, what about these two? I certainly wouldn't put them on the stand. You think they could, they couldn't even withstand direct examination, much less cross-examination.

Starting point is 00:35:04 Absolutely not. I would not put them on the stand if they were my client. They're subject to much less cross-examination. Absolutely not. I would not put them on the stand if they were my client. They're subject to so much crossing. First off, they won't be able to keep their story straight. As you can see, all these stupid steps that they took after they committed this homicide, that they're not the smartest crayons, the sharpest crayons out of the box. So in terms of what's going to happen next, though, since they're arrested in Pennsylvania, they'll have to be extradited to New York.

Starting point is 00:35:29 More than likely, they're going to be charged with murder in the second degree, which carries a mandatory minimum of 15 years to life, maximum of 25 years to life. I'll be curious to see what are their defenses. Is this woman going to allege that the man forced her to do it? Is the man going to allege that the man forced her to do it? Is the man going to allege that it was the woman who actually did it? Who knows? They'll probably be pointing their fingers at each other. I'm curious to see whether they gave a statement to law enforcement about what happened. You know what? I can't wait as the prosecutor to somehow get these pictures in front of the jury, because when they come in front of the jury, they're going to be all dressed up and

Starting point is 00:36:05 looking sweet and angelic, much like the Menendez brothers did after they murdered their mom and dad in court. They look like two college co-eds that had just come out of algebra class heading across campus to do something philanthropic BS. They're not going to look like this in court. They're going to be all fixed up, wearing a suit, wearing a nice dress with a fleet of lawyers on either side of them. It's kind of hard to reconcile what they're going to look at it like a trial to what happened to this mom, Nadia. It reminds me of Scott Peterson. I remember every day in trial, I'd wait for him to come in and he would walk in from the left side of the judge's bench, all bowed up and cocky like a football player, perfectly groomed like he just had a haircut, shave and wearing a very expensive, nice looking suit. Some people thought he was attractive. I thought he looked like the devil. Full of piss and vinegar.

Starting point is 00:37:10 Very confident. That's how he presented in front of the jury. Now, that's how he looked when he walked in the room. But when the jury came in, he'd look all pitiful and sad and trying to make eye contact with the jurors. I nearly vomited. But I managed to choke it down. That's what these two are going to do. And you know what's going to shake a jury into reality? It's when they see the autopsy photos,

Starting point is 00:37:38 when they see the pictures of the victim, a woman alone with her little puppy dog cleaning out her dead mom's apartment. Dr. Kendall Crowns, very often certain autopsy photos where the big why is cut into the victim. Or, for instance, I had a case, Dr. Crowns, where a woman was bludgeoned dead, and you couldn't see it. She had very beautiful, thick, dark brunette hair, and you couldn't see the blow on her head. The only way for the jury to see it was the subcutaneous tissue and the autopsy shot where her head, the skin was cut and pulled back. There underneath, you could see the hemorrhage and the blood. I had to fight tooth and claw to get that in, not for the upsetting nature of the photo. I hated looking at it. But to show all the bleeding,

Starting point is 00:38:47 the subdural bleeding that she endured because of a blow to the head. So those pictures very likely won't make it to this jury. But the pictures of her body covered in bruises, probably cracked teeth, the beating in the face, the kicking to the ribs. They're going to see all that. And they're going to look over at the two defendants sitting there like two angels with halos over their head. That's a sharp dichotomy. Wouldn't you agree, Dr. Crowns? I've had cases where the defense attorneys object to the pictures being put in.

Starting point is 00:39:21 And there was one judge in Chicago. He said that murder is ugly and that is what the jury is going to see. So they just have to get over it. Well, OK, spoken like a true medical examiner, the jury will, quote, have to just get over it. OK, Dr. Kendall Crowns, why did I ask you an emotional question? That's my fault, not your fault. That's totally my fault. Irv Brandt, what about these two? Because the jury is going to hear about flight. Why steal a car and flee to another jurisdiction if you're not guilty? I mean, Irv, when you see a state trooper pull up behind you on the interstate, do you gun it at 90 mph to get away? No. You might hit the brakes, but that's about it.

Starting point is 00:40:05 Why were they on the run? Why do criminals run? It only makes them look worse. It's true, Nancy, but these individuals weren't thinking about that. They were completely living in the moment. They know they just committed a heinous crime and that they were in a lot of trouble and they were going completely by instinct they were just fleeing they fled in the victim's vehicle that's the worst possible choice to do steal someone else's vehicle take the subway take a train. Fleeing in the victim's vehicle is just absurd.

Starting point is 00:40:48 And using the victim's credit cards is absurd. They have no defense in this case. Well, I got to tell you this. You have tracked down a lot of defendants all over the world. They made it very hard to find themselves for you to find them. Not so with these two. OK, here's my next concern and i'll close with this wonderful thought hallie jacobs this is going to the manhattan d.a alvin bragg he'll probably let him out on bond r.o.r released on own recognizance yeah i mean as of right now they're just being held in dolphin county prison and you know pending extradition to new york on murder charges so we'll just kind of have to wait and Prison and, you know, pending extradition to New York on murder charges. So

Starting point is 00:41:25 we'll just kind of have to wait and see. But hopefully, you know, justice is served. And the reality is to our special guest, Dr. Gary Bricotto, clinical psychologist, the son can't even begin to heal until the trial process is over. And these two haven't even been extradited yet. Absolutely. And, you know, our hearts definitely go out to him. One thing, Nancy, I definitely wanted to have an opportunity to say is that I think with this case, based on other cases that I've looked at, I wouldn't be surprised given how incredibly impulsive and chaotic the scene was, if we learned that the offenders were hopped up on some kind of drug, and that shouldn't be shocking when you envision people making boneheaded moves like this, getting in a traffic accident and so forth, because that can add to the ferocity of what we're seeing.

Starting point is 00:42:19 And the other thing I think people are going to hear about in the courtroom is a kind of a sympathy story about probably two people that came from messed up backgrounds, didn't really have a sense of home. And as a consequence, felt a kind of entitlement to take what they wanted from the world that wouldn't give them anything. And instead, what you wind up with is parasitic behavior. Dr. Gary Procotto, I agree with everything that you just said, but let me counter this. You think I care? You think I care about their imaginary bad childhood or whether they were, as you said, hopped up on meth? You know what? Don't care. Doesn't matter. Under the law, voluntary use of drugs or alcohol. It's not a defense. So to hey with that, they are going down. I don't know if Alvin Bragg is the man to do it,

Starting point is 00:43:15 but these two are headed for hard jail time. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - SQUATTER-NIGHTMARE-TURNS-MURDER: Woman Bludgeoned DEAD, Stuffed in Duffle

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Pet Camera - EBO Air 2

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - SQUATTER-NIGHTMARE-TURNS-MURDER: Woman Bludgeoned DEAD, Stuffed in Duffle

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