Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Star of hit series "Empire" Jussie Smollett JUST CHARGED WITH NEW FAKING FELONY HATE CRIME

Episode Date: February 12, 2020

"Empire” actor Jussie Smollett has been indicted by a special prosecutor in connection to an alleged hoax hate crime in January 2019.In February 2019, Smollett was charged with filing a false police report, but a month later, the charges were abruptly dropped. With the latest indictment, however, he now faces six felony counts of disorderly conduct.Joining Nancy Grace to discuss: Kathleen Murphy: North Carolina Family Attorney Bobby Chacon: Former Special Agent FBI, current star of FB Watch Series "Curse of Akakor"  Caryn Stark: NYC Psychologist  Karen Smith: Los Angeles Forensics Expert, Lecturer at the University of Florida & hose of "Shattered Souls" podcast Gabrielle Fonrouge: NY Post writer Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. It's like Christmas morning. I really just don't know where to start. So let me just dive in. So this guy, a star, a star on the hit series Empire, tells people he was the victim of a hate crime because he is black and gay. That these perpetrators were just

waiting, stalking him. They had been writing these letters that looked just like Out of Murder She Wrote. Or, wait, downgrade that to Nancy Drew, where you cut out the letters out of murder she wrote. Or, wait, downgrade that to Nancy Drew, where you cut out the letters out of a magazine, and then there's a little stick figure of someone being hung.

Anyway, I kept wondering who was stalking him at Subway Sandwich at 2 a.m. Long story short, well well if jesse smollett has not been indicted after pointing the finger at everybody but him in the last hours the empire star jesse smollett indicted by a special prosecutor in chicago on six counts of lying to cops so let me tell you something, this is not just about a PR stunt to get attention to himself and get more money as contract. This is about using Lady Justice. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Smollett, a gay cast member of the Fox hit show Empire, told police two masked white men shouting racist epithets and gay slurs beat him up, knocked him to the ground and doused him with an unknown chemical after he left a Subway restaurant around 2 a.m. on Tuesday. He also said his attackers allegedly yelled MAGA country, a reference to President Trump's campaign slogan. Why's it so hard to keep hope? Who got that pop you love for? Smollett is known for speaking out against racism and bigotry, like in this 2017 music video. He is also a frequent critic of the president.

The actor was the target of a threatening letter last week, which the FBI is now investigating. Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel. What was done here, alleged done here, as the police are working on this, has no place in the city of Chicago. Now, police sources tell us that Smollett says he was on the phone with his manager during at least part of that altercation but so far neither man has agreed to turn over his cell phone for examination. Wow you

know what this is not just about a PR stunt to get attention to himself and get more money as contract. This is about using Lady Justice, using the police, using the system, working it like a dog, like a mule, spending millions of dollars literally trying to solve his high-profile case when the whole time he was lying? You were just hearing our friend at CBS News. That was Dean Reynolds. I got an all-star panel with me right now. Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina trial lawyer.

Bobby Chacon, former special agent, FBI star of Facebook Watch series Curse of Akakor. Psychologist joining me from Manhattan, Karen Stark at karenstark.com. Karen Smith, renowned forensics expert, lecturer, University of Florida, host of Shattered Souls podcast. But right now to our friend at the New York Post, right in the middle of it, Gabrielle Fon Rouge. Gabrielle, welcome. What the hay. What the hay is right. This has been a nonstop roller coaster for pretty much 12 months now.

You know, and it all started with this bizarre hate attack. So when the cops get to his apartment, I believe the manager, I got into a fight with somebody on air about this. And it was this beautiful anchor. And I hated to be so mean to her, but she kept saying that he called 911, but didn't the manager call 911, Gabrielle? Yes, you are exactly right. I've listened to the 911 call. It was not Jesse. In fact, Jesse did not, purportedly did not want to call 911 because he didn't want to make a big fuss about it. But his manager, seeing the noose around his neck

and smelling the bleach on his clothes and seeing the scratches on his face, he was like, we have to call the cops. So the manager is the one who called the police. And in fact, on the 911 call, you can hear him saying that the subject, who is a high profile actor. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Gabrie subject, who is a high profile actor.

Wait, wait, wait, wait. Gabrielle, wait a minute. A hate crime? It sounds like he got pushed around inside a nail salon. Wait a minute. So he had something on his clothing, but it didn't get on his skin because I guess that would have hurt. Then he had a scratch. Then there was a noose around his neck.

Where's the black eye? Where's the beating? Where's the ligature mark around his neck? And what were these two just the subway vigilantes? What were they hanging around at two o'clock in Chicago? How cold is it in Chicago at 2 a.m. even in the summertime? It's freezing. Gabrielle, my nephew, is there in grad school studying something complicated, business and math, and it's freezing. What is he doing going out at 2 a.m. in the morning anyway for a subway? Doesn't he have anything in his fridge? That was my first thought. Go ahead, Gabrielle.

No, you're totally right. And not only was it cold that night, it was actually one of the coldest nights of the year in Chicago. It was down to, like like way in the negatives. People were freezing their food within minutes of bringing it outside. It's not just it really seemed very implausible from the beginning. And that's exactly what Jesse's neighbors thought about. You know, first of all, Chicago is one of the most liberal cities in the u.s so for somebody in that part of chicago in downtown chicago the riskiest part to be out at that time in those temperatures stalking him

from a subway restaurant just really started to beg a lot of questions very early on at the get go at the very beginning the story of being stalked at 2 a.m. and the freezing sub-zero cold outside the subway didn't make sense. And I'm so happy, Bobby Chacon, because I've always wanted to say, well, well, well. And I've never, ever in my life gotten to say it till right now. Okay, what is wrong with his story, Bobby Chacon? Well, the first thing is, you know, the very, very first thing that came to the investigator's mind, I think, is that in

these hate crimes, they're so emotionally traumatizing when they actually happen, that the person would not keep a noose around their neck. They would shed anything. The minute they got free, the minute they had their own ability to do so they would get rid they would rip off a noose or rip off any other restraining okay wait wait wait bobby chacon i want to back that up gabrielle fon rouge with me new york post writer gabrielle you said and as i recall when the agent got there this is so he didn't call 9-1 911. He called his agent about a hate crime where nothing really happened to him except he's got a scratch on his face. Gabrielle, isn't Chacon correct? He still had the noose around his neck, what, 30, 40 minutes later?

That'd be the first thing I'd do is get that off of my neck. Yep, you're exactly right. And that's exactly what happened. He walked into the apartment building still wearing the noose, their surveillance video that we've reviewed that shows that. And when the police officers responded to his apartment, their body cam footage shows Jesse inside of his apartment wearing the noose about 30, 40 minutes after this attack now. And, you know, shortly before the clip turned off because he asked him to turn off the cameras,

he claims that he wanted to keep the news on as to not disturb the evidence, which just, again, begs a lot of questions. Bobby Chacon, former special agent, FBI, star of Facebook Watch series Curse of Akakor. You know, you and I have talked about a lot of serious crimes where you would, for instance, pull up the dismembered body of Alaskan barista Samantha Koenig out of icy water piece by piece. And then you get something like this. You got somebody with a noose still around their neck. The most vile, the most horrible thing for an African American is to see, I've been told, a noose like that, or an image of a burning cross, or someone dressed up like the KKK.

Right. The devil, the devil just oozes out of all of that, all the hate. And he picked that one thing. And Bobby Chacon, don't you know, when he went into that apartment, he turned right at the surveillance camera so they could so it could catch him with a noose around his neck. Yeah, we've had people that are victims that keep evidence of crime because they are that aware of it. But they normally keep it at a distance in other words i've walked into scenes where they go it's right over there it's there they don't lose sight of it but they certainly don't keep in contact with or keep it around their neck crime stories with Nancy Grace.

He knew it was the brothers, didn't he? He did not. The attackers were masked. He only saw one of them. One of them approached him from behind, and he was wearing a mask. And so he did not identify them. He initially had a really hard time believing that they could be involved because he knew one of them. And we can only speculate as to motivation. But as you know, the police say they have phone records of him talking to the brothers an hour

before the attack. Absolutely. An hour after the attack and while they're in Africa. Not an hour after the attack. That's what they said. That's completely false. And not only that, you were hearing our friends at Good Morning America, but take a listen to Charlie DeMar at CBS Chicago. Brothers Ola and Abel Osindaro captured on Streeterville surveillance cameras, told detectives their role in the reported January 29th attack

on actor Jussie Smollett, according to multiple sources. Those sources say Smollett paid the brothers thousands to carry out a staged attack. JUSSIE SMOLLETT, ACCORDING TO MULTIPLE SOURCES. THOSE SOURCES SAY SMOLLETT PAID THE BROTHERS THOUSANDS TO CARRY OUT A STAGED ATTACK. IN ATTACK, SMOLLETT REPORTED TO POLICE, SAYING TWO MEN SLINGING RACIAL AND HOMOPHOBIC SLURS, DOWSING HIM IN BLEACH AND PLACING A ROPE AROUND HIS NECK. THE OSINDAROS WERE ARRESTED AND LATER RELEASED BY CHICAGO POLICE. SIMULTANEOUSLY, THE FBI is looking into a threatening letter Smollett received just days before the reported attack, the words pieced together by magazines

and a drawing depicting a rope around a stick figure's neck. Days later, Smollett said that's what happened to him during the reported attack. You know, I've worked with a lot of cases where there are notes, ransom notes, bank robbery notes, all sorts of notes. And at the get-go, these notes that were sent to Jesse Smollett at Empire, at the set, seemed like they were staged. Again, it seemed like they were written by a fifth-grade girl trying to write a mystery novel. Gabrielle Von Rouge with me, New York Post investigative reporter. Gabrielle, it all started with these notes.

And again, I'm not strung out. I'm not upset about many aspects of what Smollett did. Nobody was murdered. Nobody was killed. Nobody was maimed. Nobody's dismembered. But what he has done for all of us crime victims across the country is a huge, huge disservice because this means a lot of victims are going to be questioned because Jussie Smollett allegedly faked the whole hate crime. How do you think gay people feel? How do you think African-American people feel when he faked it? They're living through H-E-double-L every day with people really committing hate crimes. One of the first cases I worked on in front of the Georgia Supreme Court was, we didn't even know to call it hate crimes then, Gabrielle. A string of young black males were shot, always within 38, always in the same position across the city of

Atlanta, and it was hell trying to solve it. That's a hate crime. They were raped and murdered. That is a hate crime. And they always picked out young black males, always. And now Smollett, according to police, capitalized on fear and hatred just so he could get attention and get a renewal of his contract at Empire and maybe a raise. That's what many people think. All of these just allegations. But tell me about the fake letter, to start with Gabrielle Fonrush. Well he received this letter over at the studios where the Fox Empire studios are in Chicago and it's this letter with a with a stick figure showing a noose around its neck and he's kind of magazine cutouts using the n-word and some other slurs and it was very threatening and it also had some type of powder in it which i think they determined to be aspirin um so already this was something that was really

alarming you know and then the and then the studio offers do you want some extra security do you want this do you want that he declines all did i hear you say aspirin yeah did i hear you say aspirin yeah okay that's a fact as many times as I've read this, I must have forgotten that. So he threatened himself with aspirin. Listen to CBS. During a raid of the brothers' home last week, only CBS 2's cameras were allowed inside. Among the items investigators walked away with, a magazine, a piece of paper along with a writing sample, and a wallet with stamps. A PIECE OF PAPER ALONG WITH A WRITING SAMPLE AND A WALLET WITH STAMPS. MULTIPLE SOURCES SAY SMOLLETT WAS UPSET THE THREATENING LETTER DIDN'T RECEIVE A BIGGER REACTION.

THAT'S WHEN HE ORCHESTRATED THE ATTACK WITH THE BROTHERS. THE ROPE USED, BOUGHT BY AT LEAST ONE OF THE BROTHERS, PURCHASED AT THE DIRECTION OF SMOLLETT. SOURCES SAY THE BROTHERS ARE FRIENDS WITH SMOLLETT, OLA

PLAYING AN EXTRA ON EMPIRE. LAST WEEK IN A TELEVISED INTERVIEW, SMOLLETT HAD THIS TO SAY ABOUT THE SCUFFLE WITH THE BROTHERS. SMOLLETT SAID HE WAS EXCITED ABOUT THEIR RELATIONSHIP AND THAT HE WAS ABLE TO

CONTINUE TO WORK WITH THE BROTHERS. HE SAID HE WAS ABLE TO CONTINUE TO WORK WITH THE BROTHERS ARE FRIENDS WITH SMOLLETT, OLA, PLAYING AN EXTRA ON EMPIRE. LAST WEEK IN A TELEVISED INTERVIEW, SMOLLETT HAD THIS TO SAY ABOUT THE SCUFFLE WITH HIS ATTACKERS. He said, this MAGA country punches me right in the face. So I punched his ass back. I noticed the rope around my

neck and I started screaming. THE BROTHERS WHO WERE FIRST SEEN IN GRAINY SURVEILLANCE VIDEO NOW COMING INTO FOCUS, SPEAKING EXCLUSIVELY WITH ME OVER THE PHONE SAYING, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET YOU OUT OF THIS

CASE. THE BROTHERS, WHO WERE FIRST SEEN IN GRAINY SURVEILLANCE VIDEO, NOW COMING INTO FOCUS, SPEAKING EXCLUSIVELY WITH ME OVER THE PHONE SAYING, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET YOU OUT OF THIS CASE. And I started screaming. The brothers who were first seen in grainy surveillance video now coming into focus, speaking exclusively with me over the phone, saying, we are not racist, we're not homophobic, and we are not anti-Trump. We were born and raised in Chicago and are American citizens.

That's CBS2 Chicago reporter Charlie DeMar. Smollett reportedly upset his self-inflicted threatening letter where, according to Gabrielle Fonrouge at New York Post, he threatened himself with aspirin, was not taken seriously. So he went a step further and staged the attack. Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina trial lawyer, you can find her at ncdomesticlaw.com. So this is a big crime amongst friends. And that is considered domestic when you are related to, like brothers with, a family situation. But I can tell you this right now. Those two guys, his friends, Ola and Ablos Osindora, they're going to roll over and testify that he paid them for the, quote, attack Kathleen Murphy.

Well, well, well, Nancy, is all I can say. The evidence is there. The evidence was there, and the cost to the city, the cost to these citizens who have to pay their taxes, is significant. And it's only going to get worse for Justice Mullet because the evidence is clear. They didn't do a six- police about it for this long? I mean, Karen Stark, you're the shrink. Karen Stark, New York psychologist at KarenStark.com. How do you create a lie and then you maintain it for so long? Then you drag lawyers and other people into your lie and apparently don't even feel bad about it. That's what's called the pathological liar, Nancy. Somebody who is not only able to create the lies, but they begin to believe the lie they created.

So they come across very authentically. They can talk to lawyers. They can claim their innocence and say that they've been wronged when people didn't believe them because they are so adept at being able to come up with their lies convincingly. Take a listen to our friends Fox 5 DC reporter Nick Smith. Tonight those personal trainers are suing Smollett's lawyers for defamation. The two brothers saying they're filing the lawsuit because Smollett's attorneys lied to the media and tried to make it appear that they were the culprits in a real homophobic and racist attack. Now, the suit doubles down, saying the brothers never knew Smollett would go to the police because he was simply staging the attack for social media. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. No man nor any woman is above the law. Chicago attorneys for the brothers Ola and Bola Osundario firing a shot across the bow of their legal counterparts in Los Angeles

representing actor Jussie Smollett. Allegations of a fake hate crime engineered by Smollett, according to Chicago police, the brothers reportedly admitting their involvement in the elaborate hoax allegedly concocted by the actor to raise his profile and earning potential before Cook County prosecutors in a surprise move threw the case out. That's right the case was thrown out you're hearing WGN News reporter Julian Cruz but take a listen to our friend Robin Roberts at ABC. Why do you think you were targeted? I can just assume I mean I come really really hard I mean, I come really, really hard against 45. I come really, really hard against his administration.

And I don't hold my tongue. I want to ask you about Jesse Smollett. I think that's horrible. It doesn't get worse, as far as I'm concerned. Were you aware that he made that statement? I saw it. And there is no doubt in your mind what motivated this attack?

I could only go off of their words. I mean, who says empire? This MAGA country ties a noose around your neck and pours bleach on you, and this is just a friendly fight? I will never be the man that this did not happen to. I am forever changed. And I don't subscribe to the idea that everything happens for a reason, but I do subscribe to the idea that we have the right and the responsibility to make something meaningful out of the things that happen to us, good and bad. Okay. You know, as much as I love Gabrielle Funrouge,

Karen Smith, Karen Stark, Bobby Chacon, Kathleen Murphy, I could just listen to him lying all day long. You were hearing Jussie Smollett lying, according to police, straight to Robin Roberts' face. Straight to her face. Did she believe him? I don't know. But right at the get-go, the story was thin, very thin, with a lot of holes in it. Joining me right now, a forensics expert, special lecturer,

University of Florida, host of Shattered Souls podcast, Karen Smith. Thanks for being with us. Karen, tell me all the forensic evidence you'd like to get your mitts on. First of all, the rope. I would like to do touch DNA on the rope. Anybody other than the brothers and Jussie Smollett's DNA on that rope, that'd be my first question. Second, question document examination. The note, the letter. Look at all of that. The ink, the paper, the glue, the magazine it came from, and then compare it with the magazines, the stamp,

and everything found at the brothers' apartment. Nancy, this case is such a cluster, I can't even begin to tell you. And what really makes me angry is all of the police that did their due diligence, they did their work, and this is what drives cops nuts. They did the work and put in the effort, and they were just thrown under the bus last year by the prosecutor. We did the work and put in the effort and they were just thrown under the bus last year by the prosecutor. We did our work, hundreds and hundreds of hours that could have been dedicated to other investigations, all of the forensics, everything that went into it. It is maddening. You know, when I think about real victims out there, Gabrielle Fonrouge, New York Post investigative writer, when I think about real victims, victims I've dealt with, victims I represented in court, all in inner city Atlanta for the most part, victims that did not have a voice for themselves,

they were too afraid, too uneducated, too beat down to stand up in a court of law and be heard. And then Jussie Smollett jumps up. I think you better rethink that whole quote about holding his tongue. He's not one to hold his tongue. I'm so happy he didn't hold his tongue because now, oh, I can't wait. If they plead this out, I'm going to be so disappointed. I want this to go to trial. I want to be on the front row. And I can't wait to watch Jussie Smollett when they play back for the jury these interviews with our friend Robin Roberts. Gabrielle Von Roosch, I want to go back.

And I know I said it already. And then I moved on to the magazines and how we can tie that, how cops can tie those magazines to Smollett. But I also want to find out why was the case dropped to start with? Let's start right there, Gabrielle. Well, that was immediately extremely suspicious because all of a sudden it's an early March morning and news comes across the wires that state's attorney, Kim Fox, had dropped the charges, and there was no explanation at all. He didn't take a plea. He didn't reduce it to a violation. He admitted no

guilt at all. And it's not often that prosecutors agree to do something like that. You know, the Cook County state's attorney tried to claim that this was based on previous practice, like that they would treat any defendant this way, but they're not throwing out charges. They're reducing them. They're taking pleas. 99% of cases are pleaded down. So this was already extremely odd. And then as the case started to unfold, as all the public records started to come out, I noticed that this case was rife with unethical decisions based on Kim Fox's part. At first, she recused herself, but didn't appoint a special prosecutor, and then tried to say that it was only a colloquial recusal, which I don't understand in a court of law how there could be such thing as a colloquial recusal, which is why Judge Tooman eventually appointed a special prosecutor, because he said the entire investigation from Kim Fox's office was null from the beginning,

because by appointing her first deputy in her stead was completely invalid. You can't recuse yourself without actually appointing a special prosecutor. So there's a lot of questions why this got dropped. What got into her? What got into Kim Fox? I mean, she had a great career ahead of her. And then all of a sudden, she allegedly fudges, shows partiality, gets snugged up with Smollett's family. What happened? Well, there's a lot of political implications here. First, we have Tina Tchen, who is a longtime friend of the Obamas, who has connections with Michelle Obama. She used to work in her office. And Tina Tchen reaches who is a longtime friend of the Obamas, who has connections with Michelle Obama.

She used to work in her office. And Tina Tchen reaches out to Kim Foxx. And Kim Foxx is a politician through and through. That's just what she is. And Tina Tchen is saying, listen, the Smollett family needs a little bit of help. Can you help them out? And she agrees, of course. She starts saying, I'm going to try to get the FBI involved.

I'm going to do everything I can FBI involved. I'm going to do everything I can to help your family member. This is when Smollett was still being viewed as a victim. And to have, you know, a prosecutor that, you know, Chicago's lead prosecutor get involved with victim families like that already, that's already an ethical issue. So we have Fox's chief ethics officer, April Perry, come in and say, listen, you know, just to play this 100% straight, this is a high profile case. We're going to be scrutinized to pieces on this. You need to recuse yourself because those text messages are damning. So she decides to recuse herself, but not actually. So it begs a lot of questions here. You know, was she trying to

curry political favor? Was she just trying to not jam up a celebrity did she feel some kind of kinship to smollett uh there's really it's really unclear it's been a mystery all along and that's something that kim fox is gonna have to answer as she enters into her new campaign right now for re-election guys as awesome as you all are and you gotta got to know that. You have to know that. I just have to listen to Jesse Smollett again. Listen. I went to the subway and got the order. During that time, I texted my manager thinking that he was still in Australia because he was on an Australian tour with one of his other clients. I said, yo, call me when you can. He called me immediately, and while he was on the phone, I heard, as I was crossing the intersection, I heard,

Empire. And I don't answer to Empire. My name ain't Empire. And I didn't answer. I kept walking, and then I heard, Empire. So I turned around, and I said, the did you just say to me?

And I see the attacker masked. And he said, this MAGA country punches me right in the face. So I punched his ass back. And then we started tussling. You know, it was very icy. And we ended up tussling by the stairs, fighting, fighting, fighting. There was a second person involved who was kicking me in my back.

And then it just stopped. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I look down and I see that there's a rope around my neck, which I hadn't obviously... You hadn't noticed it before? No, because it was so fast. You know what I'm saying? It was so fast. How long did this all take? It felt like minutes, but it probably was like 30 seconds, honestly. I can't tell you, honestly.

I noticed the rope around my neck and I started screaming. And I said, there's a f***ing rope around my neck. Did you get any kind of description of the attack? I gave a body description, and I, you know, because I saw this, but, and, you know, right here or whatever, but I didn't see, I can't tell you what color their eyes were, I can't tell you, and I did not see anything

except the second person I saw running away. And the first person, yeah, I saw, saw his stature. I gave the description as best as I could. You have to understand also that it's Chicago in winter. I saw his stature. I gave the description as best as I could. You have to understand also that it's Chicago in winter. People can wear ski masks, and nobody's going to question that. Okay, I could listen to that all day long. That is Jesse Smollett, formerly the star of Empire, the hit series, making tons of money.

Speaking to our friend ABC Robin Roberts, with me Kathleen Murphy, Bobby Chacon, Karen Stark, Karen Smith, and Gabrielle Fon Rouge, investigative reporter, New York Post. It turns out the attackers are his friends. One is his trainer, and the other, or the same one, is an extra on Empire, the hit series. He's a star of, a star of, and he knows both of them. They're brothers for Pete's sake, Gabrielle. Yes, ma'am, they are. He knew both of them from the show. They had actually both played as extras.

One of them had started being a personal trainer. He would also get drugs for him whenever Jesse wanted. He procured ecstasy and cocaine for him on numerous occasions. So kind of relied on him for that kind of stuff. And, you know, what's really funny about this that I think that you'll enjoy is when you hear Jesse speaking on with Robin talking about how they punched him in the face and how he punched him back. So he actually, according to the brothers and according to police records that I've reviewed, he had told the brothers that he wanted to be able to fight

back and that he asked them to pull their punches and to let him get a few licks in so he didn't look like a total, you know, victim and that he had actually had a chance to fight back. And one of the brothers, he didn't trust to throw his punch. So he told him to not even do anything. And he told the other brother to do the majority of the punches. So this whole thing, every detail of it, every literal punch that was thrown was calculated and constructed by Smollett, according to police. Don't they have, Gabrielle Fon Rouge, the brothers, those Sandara brothers caught on video buying the masks? Yes. Yes, they were caught on video masks and they were also caught on video purchasing the red hat and the rope that was used for the news. Oh, my goodness. Look, you know, I'm totally apolitical because I hate all politicians.

I think they're all lying. And I try to just hold my nose and vote for the best one, the least offensive one every time I vote that I think could just keep the country in the middle of the road and we'll all do the rest. The Americans will do the rest. Just don't get us in a war. Just that. If you can just do that then we'll try to figure but this could not have played more into trump's hands it's like crazy

when you pay your attackers allegedly to wear mega hats and attack you i mean what a big mess you really you hit it on the nail right there because now that police have determined that this hate crime didn't actually happen, it completely sealed the right and gave them the ammo that they needed to fight against liberals. It's like, look, they're literally making these things up about it. Karen Smith with me, forensics expert, host Shattered Souls podcast. Soul's podcast, you've got video surveillance in so many different areas of the brothers, the friends of Smollett buying the masks and the red hat. You've got video of the attackers kind of like walking off into the distance, not trying to hide nothing. You've got Smollett smiling up at the camera, showing off his noose. I mean, there's a ton of evidence. A ton. You know, I talked about TouchDNA on the rope. We don't even need that.

This case has played out, and it was tied up with a little pink bow for the prosecutor. The cell records. They had the internet info. They had all of that video surveillance of the brothers buying masks and then admitting to payoffs by Jussie Smollett. Listen, if I had brought that to a prosecutor as a case when I was a cop, they would have kissed me on the cheek and said, thank you very much, have a nice day. I don't understand it, Nancy.

I just hate it for real victims. And I'm talking about victims of real hate crimes that suffer every day in our country because of pure hate. Now, this raises another red flag. Listen to Jussie Smollett digging his hole with his own teeth as he talks to Robin Roberts. The phone. When did you, because as you said, it was an accurate account of the timeline, valuable information. When did you make that information available to the police? We gave, we had to give

the phone records, which they didn't originally ask for my phone records. They asked for my phone. They wanted me to give my phone to the tech for three to four hours. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to do that. Not going to hand over his phone, claiming he has private things on it, when he has been the victim of a hate crime. That was, well, in addition to the whole made-up scenario, when you all hand over your phone to catch your hate crime attackers. Uh-uh, Bobby Chacon, former special agent, FBI. That's way off. Yeah, you know, for an African-American person in the United States to have a noose put around their neck, I can't think of, short of being killed, I can't

think of a worse crime committed against you. That has to be the single most traumatic event that's ever happened to you in your life. And for you not to be 101% cooperative, here, take my phone, you need it for a couple hours, great, I'll grab a cup of coffee. I mean, and if you heard his interview, if you heard, we just heard that long, awkward pause. He didn't have an answer on why when the interviewer said why. There was this long, awkward pause. He just didn't even know. He hadn't even thought about coming up with an excuse on why. This has to be, again, the single most traumatic event that ever happened to you. And you're going to not be, you're going to guard your phone more than help search for the truth. It's all of these indications very, very early on in an investigation that tells the police that there is something amiss about what we're being told.

Kathleen Murphy, weigh in. I agree 100% that the evidence is there. There's no doubt in my mind that this is a crime that occurred. I cannot believe it was dismissed originally. that the evidence is there. There's no doubt in my mind that this is a crime that occurred. I cannot believe it was dismissed originally. And by the way, Nancy, a lot of people are saying, isn't that double jeopardy? Double jeopardy does not attach unless he enters a plea of guilty or there's a trial that has begun. So it is not double jeopardy and the state has the right to pursue this charge. The Chicago police vowing to investigate the incident with all its might, celebrities around the world supporting Smollett.

He became even more famous, but then it all fell apart when it turns out he faked the whole thing. What a blow to the police for the charges against him to be dropped, but now they've been resurrected. Gabrielle Fonrouche, what exactly are the charges? They're class four felonies, but it's six counts of disorderly conduct, which the Illinois Penal Code counts filing a false police report under disorderly conduct. And based on my reading of it, and I could be wrong, I know that you used to be a prosecutor here, so you might have the upper hand

over here, but a class four felony in Illinois is one to three years minimum. It's also a $25,000 fine and you'll have to go do community service. And previously he was charged with 16 counts of felony disorderly conduct. What potential sentence is he facing, Gabrielle? He's facing, you know, the way that the penal code reads in Illinois is for a class four felony, you have no less than one year in jail and a max of three years in jail. You'd also have to pay a fine up to $25,000. And anyone who's found guilty of disorderly conduct has to complete community service in their community if it is available. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off.

Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.