Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - State Wants KOHBERGER'S CLICK Activity in Murders of 4 Students

Episode Date: October 12, 2023

A new report says two surviving housemates in the Moscow, Idaho rental home where 4 students were killed, were awake and texting each other while the murders were taking place. The new information comes from Air Mail.com, a weekly digital subscription service. The lengthy article attributes the information to someone on the grand jury that indicted Bryan Kohberger. The information was allegedly leaked to Kaylee Goncalves’ Father,  Steve. Neither Gonsalves nor his attorney has commented or confirmed the information in the article. There is currently a restrictive gag order in place on the case. A statement released by the family however calls the claims “a very poor attempt at getting attention and obviously fictional.” As the investigation continues, prosecutors are asking for more of Bryan Kohberger's electronic footprint. The state is requesting customer information from multiple companies including Amazon, Apple, and PayPal. Search warrants have been served asking for information related to the purchase of knives, but that's not all.   The information requests include customer "click activity" pertaining to knives and accessories, as well.  Joining Nancy Grace Today: Tara Malek – Boise, ID, Attorney & Co-owner of Smith + Malek; Former State and Federal Prosecutor; Twitter: @smith_malek Caryn L. Stark – Psychologist, Renowned TV and Radio Trauma Expert and Consultant; Instagram: carynpsych/FB: Caryn Stark Private Practice Chris McDonough -Director At the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective, Host of YouTube channel- "The Interview Room" Joe Scott Morgan – Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, “Blood Beneath My Feet,” and Host: “Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan;” Twitter: @JoScottForensic Lee Reiber – Mobile Device Forensic Expert, COO: Oxygen Forensics, Inc., Author: “Mobile Forensic Investigations: A Guide to Evidence Collection, Analysis, and Presentation”   Nicole Partin - CrimeOnline.com Investigative Reporter; Twitter: @nicolepartin See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Brian Koberger. It never ends with this guy. In the last hours, we learn more and more. But what information can be trusted? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Listen to this. A new report says two surviving housemates in the Moscow, Idaho rental home where four students were killed were awake and texting each other while the murders were taking place.

The new information comes from airmail.com. The lengthy article attributes the information to someone on the grand jury, which indicted Brian Koberger. The information was allegedly leaked to Kaylee Gonsalves' father, Steve. Neither Gonsalves nor his attorney have commented or confirmed the information in the article. There is currently a restrictive gag order in place on the case. A statement released by the family, however, calls the claims a very poor attempt at getting attention and obviously fictional. What, if anything, does it mean? With me, an all-star panel to make sense

of what we know right now, but that's the panel to make sense of what we know right now. But that's the tip of the iceberg of what we are learning. Straight out to Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star of a hit new series, Body Bags, with Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, thank you for being with us. Joe Scott, I'm trying to make sense of the evidence we're hearing now. Now, according to this leak, I'm always suspicious of a leak, but it apparently came from a grand juror that heard all sorts of evidence.

Evidence we are not privy to. And the victim's parents are not privy to it. Now, granted, they know a lot more than we know. But try to make sense of this because it doesn't quite jive with what we've been told. One of the surviving victims said that she woke up in the night. Actually, let's hear it, Joe Scott, and then you analyze. Take a listen to Hour Cut 567. We do know at least one of the surviving roommates reported seeing something suspicious to the police.

Court documents detail what the roommate reportedly heard and saw. The roommate was on the second floor of the three-story house. She told police that she woke up around 4 a.m. hearing noises above her, thinking Gonsalves was playing with the dog. According to the probable cause affidavit, the roommate thought she heard Gonsalves say, there's someone here. She looked out but didn't see anything. The roommate also reported she heard crying from Zanna Cronodal's room and then heard a male saying, it's okay, I'm going to help you. When she opened her door a third time, she saw a masked man leaving. He was dressed in dark clothing and had bushy eyebrows,

and he left through the sliding rear door. She described him to police as not very muscular, but athletically built. Joe Scott, what we're hearing right now claims that the surviving roommates were actually texting each other during the attacks. Does it jive with what we already know? I don't necessarily think that it does, Nancy, because if that's the case, if they were texting back and forth and you've got all of this cross noise is what I'll call it because we haven't really been able to kind of peg it down, have we, relative to what they were

saying. You know, we hear this idea that she thought that she heard the dog being played with okay and that that was the the rumpus upstairs and then she hears the crying and the person saying it's okay i'm gonna help you there there's nothing here of substance you know where we can actually hang our hat on intellectually where we're talking about them texting back and forth you know how does this information come out and my experience relative to grand jury uh information is they can if information is leaked out like this you can have they can have your guts for garters at that point

time it doesn't make sense to me well i can tell can tell you right now, and Tara Malik, I think, is going to agree with me. She is a high-profile lawyer named partner of Smith and Malik, former state federal prosecutor. Tara, thank you for being with us. No grand juror is going to be dragged into court and questioned, hey, did you tell your husband about this and then he blabbed it at work. That's not going to happen if this came from a grand juror. And for those of you just joining us, what we're talking about is actually crucial if it's true or not true. No grand juror is going to get in trouble. Now, if it was a lawyer or a witness, say a cop, blabbing out of school, yeah, there could be sanctions. But Tara, I had an 87-year-old judge. He was a fantastic judge,

too. Let me tell you, Luther Alverson, sharp as a tack. He would always tell jurors, it is your duty to make all witnesses speak the truth. And impugn perjury upon no one. What that means, and regular people talk, is maybe that report is true, and what the victim's families are saying is true. And they say that's not what happened. Because, Tara, what about the theory that they were texting as they were going to bed just before, like minutes before the attacks? I agree with you 100 percent, Nancy. I would highly doubt that there would be any sort of repercussion to a grand juror who makes a comment to offhand comment to a husband or spouse or whomever. The bigger issue to me is this allegation that one of the fathers, the victims may have somehow contacted this grand juror. I think that could be very problematic. As far as from an evidentiary standpoint, you know, if there were text messages being exchanged

by surviving roommates during the course of the murders, that information would be highly critical for, I think, both sides. It could have the tendency of corroborating the timeline that the prosecution is trying to put together and piecing together through other pieces of information and evidence like the phone pings and, you know, some of the observations of where this car may have traveled and trying to put Coburger there if there were other descriptions of the person who was committing the murders, other statements that were being made. And all of that would come in because if they are texting contemporaneously, so at the same time that these events are going on, all that evidence would be

admissible at the time of trial. I'm just having a hard time reconciling it, and I normally try to reconcile. I mean, back to you, Joe Scott Morgan. Hold on, Nicole Parton. I'm coming right to you. Joe Scott Morgan, how many nights, I mean midnight or early morning before I would go to court, but I go back to a crime scene to try to reconcile what witnesses were saying. And guess what? Most of the time, I could reconcile it.

For instance, one witness would say, I couldn't see a thing. And the other witness that saw everything was four feet away. Guess what? There was a giant bush, giant, 10 feet tall, beside the home where that murder occurred. And it occurred outside beside another tree. So one witness didn't see anything and the other witness saw everything. And when I figured that out, I could then take a picture and get it corroborated on the stand and give it to the jury to explain the discrepancy in the witness's statements.

That happened not with a tree, but with many other factual issues, Judge Scott Morgan, where both parties were speaking the truth. Their truth. The truth. As they saw it. So I'm trying to find a way to reconcile this and I think

it was Mr. Gonsalves said this did not happen. A grand juror did not say that. But apparently a grand juror said something like that. So I'm trying to reconcile. Is it true? But I'm very curious when it comes to suspicious when it comes to unnamed sources. Gonsalves isn't worried to go out there and go, this is what I know. But somebody that keeps their identity shrouded, I don't know who that source is.

Why don't they want us to know the truth so we can question them? I find that a little sus. Yeah, I do too. And one of the things that makes me think of is that somebody's trying to bait for more information to be drawn out, you know, to kind of show that, listen, this case has been so shrouded relative to what has been revealed up to this point as well it should be. And I know that you appreciate that as an investigator slash prosecutor. I do. You don't need all of this data floating around out there.

Hold your horses, big man. You know why? True. The state has to hand over basically their whole file to the defense. Fine. So no U.S. Supreme Court ruling Brady v. Maryland. Fine. But do I have to tell them my trial strategy?

No, I don't. And wouldn't. So you're so right, Joe Scott Morgan. You know, when you go into court, you don't want the other side to have your playbook because you don't have theirs. And you've got to do what's best for your case and to get a true verdict. So you're right. You don't want things floating around out there.

And I'm very, I'm also curious, Karen Stark, renowned psychologist joining me out of Manhattan, why someone would leak something that wasn't true because it just causes heartache for the family. Guys, for those of you just joining us, a new report in the Coburger prosecution that the two surviving roommates, let's see their names, Nicole Parton, joining me, crimeonline.com investigative reporter. The two survivors, Nicole, they're not commenting on this at all, are they? They are not. They're not commenting at all. And you know that the timeline of what's being leaked doesn't line up. We know that one survivor says, I woke up around four and thought I heard something. I thought it was Kaylee and the dog.

And now this leaked report is saying that the girls were awake. The survivors were all awake for 430 and they were texting each other. So none of it is consistent with the original reports that came out as far as what the survivors heard. Hey, Joe Scott, before you run to your class, I want you to hear this. We'll circle back to whether that's true or not but I have faith that Gonsalves is telling the truth as he knows it more may come out at trial and maybe he's wrong in the end but I think he's selling the truth as he knows it on the facts he's being given but now we're finding out that the state wants a lot more from Amazon and not just the Christmas list.

Take a listen to 577-KREM. Newly released court documents are revealing that police in the Moscow murders case are asking for information from several big tech companies. The search warrants were obtained over the summer and are asking for the suspect in this case, Brian Koberger's customer information on Amazon, Apple, and PayPal. Prosecutors are asking for Amazon for their information to see if Koberger bought, viewed, or was recommended any knives on their website. Police believe that a specific type of knife was used to commit the murders. A knife sheath with Koberger's DNA was found at the crime scene, but the murder weapon itself has still not been found.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace You know what's interesting right there, and Joe Scott, I'm going to get into it with you about why the knife sheath is so important. They also want all of his clicks, all of his clicks. You know how I love going through a defendant's Google searches, not just their Google searches, but everything they've searched. I want to find out what they're ordering, what they're watching, what they're reading, what they're interested in, because it's, you know, the eyes are the window to the soul. BS. I say your search history is the window to your soul. What you're interested in.

Yeah, I swear there's something like that in the Bible, that where your thoughts are, where your heart is, so are your actions. Right? I want to find out everything I can about Koberger. And the clicks, the Amazon clicks. How many dozens of knives do you think he looked at before he ordered that one? And did the sheath come with it? Was it separate? Because you know,

he's pretty anal, right, Joe Scott? What am I going to learn in all those clicks? The narrowing of a search, just like we do if we're working a case. He's looking for something specifically. And let me lay this on you. My wife, Kim. You know, you can thank her for everything you've become, by the way. I know. And God bless her for putting up with me. I said, darling, I want one of these knives. She said, done. Guess what? She went to Amazon. I had it in a day and a half. Why do you want one of those knives? So you can examine it? Yes, I do. And I have it. And what I wanted was the knife so I could appreciate the weight. I've held, this is a K-bar knife, and it's specifically a USMC.

Guess what? What's that? I got one of those knives so I could look at it. I was going to spring it on you later, but darn. I didn't mean to bury the lead, my friend. Yeah, you totally. It's not going to run out of my lungs go ahead wait i'm gonna check the searches of both of you i wanted to feel the weight of it i did and and handle well i wanted to understand the functionality of the sheath and there's something i learned from

the sheath nancy because a lot of hay has been made over this. The fact that it's found in the bed, you've got this DNA that's adjacent to the snap. We don't know specifically where on the snap. I have my suspicions about it. Oh, whoa, whoa. You just can't drop a bomb like that on me. I have my suspicions.

I think that the DNA was right where, imagine a snap and you push it and open it. That's obviously where the DNA is going to be. I think the opening part is the most significant because on the underside of the button, it's got an edge there. And I think that as you move that button, you click it and it makes a distinctive pop, Nancy. It could rake off skin cells right there. I think that this has probably touched DNA, but what's more important to me, what tells us, what really gives us an insight into this case, Nancy, is that this sheath comes equipped with a belt holder. And why that is important is the fact that if you're so prepared if you thought this thing out this massacre well he bought it seven months ahead of time so he's thinking about something he didn't

need that teaching his classes why in the hell don't you have a belt on why don't you have a belt on that secures this knife why is it that you have left this sheath there at the scene. Maybe you've prepped. We've heard he's dressed all in black. Did you not have the ability to put on a belt? Are you wearing something that doesn't have belt loops like a pair of pants? Are you wearing coveralls? What if he had it on the loop of the pants and it came disattached?

It could have been. And we don't know anything about the nature of the sheaths either. You know, like is the loop, the attachment loop on the sheath itself, is it compromised structurally in some way? Has it been torn or broken? We don't know that. But I think that it's a reasonable question to say, why don't you have this thing secured on your belt? I was in the military. I had a knife in the military. It was always secured on my person. I'd get my butt chewed out if I didn't. Why? And they're made that way. k bars are made that way marine corps carried them for years and

years they are made to be secured on your person that sheath was not it was found at the scene and you have to think about going into battle like a marine they don't want their hands full that's the first thing i learned walking through the projects trying to find witnesses walking in downtown inner city Atlanta you want your hands free you don't want you holding your pocketbook or holding your knife no just like this scenario you need the knife attached to you if you're going into battle I can just see him doing that why would he walk into this home holding the knife holding the sheath you're going into battle. I can just see him doing that. Why would he walk into this home holding the knife,

holding the sheath? You're right. You're absolutely right. But I believe that you were non-responsive because my question was about the clicks. I thoroughly enjoyed your conversation about the belt loop.

But can we get back to what we can learn from the clicks? Because Karen Stark joining me, psychologist joining us out of New York, TV radio trauma expert at Karen Stark dot com. Karen with a C. Karen, this guy is so anal. What are we going to learn from all those clicks? We're going to learn so much. Well, because he's so he's anal, he's organized and obsessed. Right, Nancy?

So he's looking at knives. I wouldn't be shocked if he wasn't looking at all different types of knives and which would be the best one to use. And maybe he's even looking at what he's going to wear. So he's looking at clothing that's black because he's been reported. Yeah, what is that? Everyone dresses up like a ninja. They've seen way too many action movies. Go ahead, Karen Stark. They want to blend into the night, right? I mean, this was we're laughing, but this for him was a project and a really big deal. I'm not laughing. Yeah, I mean, well, so the truth is there's so much to be gained from the clicks. Right. Because whether it's the clothing, whether it's the knife, whether it's the shoes he's going to wear, he thought about every single one of these things. This is an intense guy who planned this out very carefully. Think of how quickly he did it, right? He really did. And

this knife and knife sheath is just Scott Morgan and I were just talking about were purchased seven months prior. I want to go to Chris McDonough. You know him well from his YouTube channel, The Interview Room, but he is the director at the Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective, over 300 investigations under his belt. You can also find him at coldcasefoundation.org. Chris, can we just talk about the clicks? What would you expect to find? Because you heard the news report from our friends at KREM.

The search warrants were obtained over the summer. They want all the customer information on Amazon, Apple, and PayPal. So apparently that's what they found on his phone. They don't want just what he ordered, but they want all of his clicks. Everything he did. Now, the knife is obviously super important. Anything we can find about his searching for a particular kind of knife. Why?

Take a listen to our friends at Daily Mail. The knife sheath was also dropped to the right of Maddie's body with the killer's DNA on the snap. That always felt to me like this is where the murders began. That the killer snuck in, unsnapped the sheath, and pulled the knife out for the first time, dropping the sheath in the process, effectively marking his start point. Now, the sheath was discovered by investigators on the mattress partially underneath of Maddie's body. So I really do think he dropped it right when he unsheathed the knife for the first time. Yeah, that's Caitlin Becker. She's absolutely right. So Chris McDonough joining us from the interview room. What are we going to learn in those clicks? Nancy, every one of those clicks individually will reveal

thoughts, feelings, and emotions. And that will turn possibilities into probabilities. What do you mean? How can a click on Amazon or PayPal reveal your thoughts, feelings, and emotions? Because that's really the definition of behavior.

And so by engineering or reverse engineering all of that movement that the that coberger was making uh pre-incident i.e killing these uh college students here it gives us an insight into where he was going and how he was going to get there and that is is extremely important, not only for the trial coming up, as you know more than anybody, but also for the investigators to continue to move this investigation forward. I think we forget this investigation is still moving. I don't think they have all of, you know, all the eggs in the basket basket yet and this is a good example of listening to this you know analysis in this panel it's it's it's amazing yeah it is amazing i was gonna say we know chris they do have more information we're on the outside looking in joe scott was saying

this earlier and he's right the state or the defense has no duty to tell us anything they're working working in their cases, or at least they better be working in their cases. But I like what you just said, Chris McDonough, that every click shows your thoughts, your feelings, and your emotions. When you first said that, I thought, no way. Because if you look at what I do online, Instacart, green vegetables, this, that, Amazon, socks for John David, a sweatshirt, a this, a that. It's the same thing over and over every day. But that does reveal my thoughts, my feelings, and my emotions. I'm one of those people that believe if you want to be close to your children, make it happen. And what brings people together better than a good supper nothing so that's my

time and I plan it and that's where my feelings and my thoughts and my emotions are when I'm not working a case like this so what you just said is actually really revealing you know I was thinking about, Jackie, what was the name of the lady? First name Anne with an E. New England. The husband said she was leaving for the airport. Yes. Anna. Anna. Anna. Anna. Yes. Do you remember his, I just gave myself chills. Do you remember his searches? There are enough, see, you're laughing. It actually makes my stomach hurt. How long does it take?

You know, how long will a dead body smell? How do I do this? How do I do that? Is there evidence somebody goes to the airport? Is there evidence somebody gets on a plane or does? I mean, it revealed everything. And with me right now to speak to this issue, a name you know or should know well, Lee Reber, mobile device forensic expert, CEO of Washington Forensics, author, Mobile Forensic Investigations. Mobile Forensic Investigations.

That's a book, Lee Reber? Hey, everybody loves mobile phones, right? Wait a minute, what? Is that a book? You wrote a book, Mobile Forensic Investigations? Yeah, yeah, even a couple of... Holy moly, I've got to read this. You know, a lot of people want to read the top, the bestseller list off the New York Times.

I want to read Mobile Forensic Investigations. Oh, and your host of a podcast, Forensic Happy Hour. Boy, you're busy. Thank you for making time with us. For us, Lee Reber, explain to me how this is happening and the significance of these searches and what else were you think we're going to find no i think i think the digital footprint this is going to be huge for this case now remember you're speaking to a bunch of luddites like me slow it down man yeah exactly so you know people people today right the searches that they use i i love the you know trying to

and i suffer for your kids but you know, when you start thinking about your own searches on either Amazon or any search engine. Oh, my stars. I looked at my husband's searches. It was horrible. My eyes started bleeding. It's all about mergers and acquisitions and business stories. I had the Wall Street Journal. I nearly fell over.

I'm not going to do that again for a while. Go ahead. But what's important as well is if we look back at those text messages, you know, that allegedly, you know, during the crime, right, that they had between the two roommates, what's important to that as you look at now a timeline. Wait, wait, wait. I'm not accepting that, number one.

I'm not saying that those text messages happened during the attacks. I'm saying somebody reported that and the father said that didn't happen. What I'm saying is we need to take those along with, think about the infotainment center that's within a car. Yeah. Right? That car has a navigational system in it. It's built within it. Even if you're not going and navigating to a point, it's still tracking your location.

It's still showing where you're at. He allegedly, you know, turned his phone off. Well, you can't turn the car off. Oh, hold on. Hold on. Just while you're, let me follow up on what you're saying. Nicole Parton with me, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Nicole, while you're sitting there, can you find out if his Elantra, I think I know the make and model, the year.

I'm thinking it was a 21. But that said, can you see, Nicole, if it had a nav system? You may already know that. Knowing you, you do. But while Lee Reber is talking, can you look that up, please? Okay, Lee Reber, go ahead. Yeah, going back to even 2011, the Hyundai Elantra had a nav system in it that was built in. So, those cars come with it.

I'm not quite sure on the year of what he had. However, you know, looking at that information, and now the defense is saying, well, he took lots of night drives, you know, trying to do that. Well, I think you'll be able to tell that within that infotainment center. And I am assuming... Okay. Well, see, I'm drinking from the water hydrant. The fire hydrant again. It's too much, too fast. You're right. You know, do you know, Lee Reaver, what was my next topic of discussion? Which, of course, my little map I make out for our discussions. We never stick to that but what

about his alibi how can we prove didn't we talk about that right before you prove or disprove his alibi and you're so right why didn't we think of that you know what brilliant brilliant so if the Elantras have had nav systems since 2011 we're totally if they keep the information going back that far we can look at it and find out if that's true since he claimed he always went by himself lee reber that's convenient you're absolutely right okay go ahead yeah it's just a computer system you know uh able to remove that there's plenty of forensic software that allows the ability to uh to investigate that data and and we haven't even talked about as well the ring there's a ring camera uh that was able to

capture something uh across uh from across the street uh in initial reports so you know now you have searches you have travel within with a vehicle You have text messages that might have been occurring at that time. I think, again, now taking the digital life, right, that digital footprint of an individual or the individuals, the victims, and those survivors, I think there's a ton of data that's going to come out. Thanks for having me. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Tara Malik, partner in Smith & Malik,

high-profile lawyer, joining us out of this jurisdiction. When you try a case, I don't know if you were like me, I had to, quote, marshal my evidence. I had to figure out what exhibit goes with this question. What do I have to prove this point? What do I have to prove this point? Be it eyewitness testimony, a fingerprint, a hair, whatever. You have to marshal your evidence. If you want to win that is. If not, you can just go in willy nilly. I don't think a lot of people have picked up on. He said the Elantra dating back to 2011 has a nav system. So this alibi that Ann Taylor, the defense lawyer has cooked up and thrown at us,

that can be proven or disproven very easily. Yeah, I absolutely agree. I mean, and I agree with you. I mean, when you're putting a case together for trial, you don't want to take the shotgun approach, just going in there and asking a bunch of, you know, random questions. And I once worked for a judge who called it the Christopher Columbus approach to trial, which is you get out of the, you know, counsel's table, you walk towards the witness, you ask a bunch of questions, and you sit back down again, you don't know where you've been, and you don't know where you ended up and where you're going. And you accidentally landed on America, looking for a trade route.

That's right. Don't do that. And so you're right. You have to organize your evidence in a way under each of the elements that you have to prove and how you do that. You know, there's a variety of different ways. But but, you know, Lee is right. I mean, there's there's a lot of ways that this alibi could be disproved, including using the navigation system. And that's the reason why, you know, the law requires you when you're going to claim an alibi to provide enough information where it gives the other side, where it gives the prosecution the ability to figure out what they need or what they don't need to either confirm that that alibi, in fact, is true or to disprove it. Because we don't do, you know, guerrilla warfare in trial. It's not trial by surprise here. to get the defense to even provide and meet the requirements of providing an alibi, you know, to me means that, you know, there's something fishy going on here. Well, there's another thing.

Nicole Parton joining me, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Isn't it true that the state has already nailed down Koberger's pings from his phone the night of the murders. If they could do that, couldn't they ping all the other nights he claims he was out on night drives? Absolutely. They have already, they claim they have already pinged those. They know exactly where he was. And you're absolutely right. Even on the base model of his car, that GPS system is always engaged. So wherever he was supposedly driving around, we can see that right on the car. I'm just thinking everything through.

Oh, here's another thing. There's not a thing Coburger can do about getting all that information from Amazon and PayPal and Apple Pay, there's no way they're going to be able to suppress it. Why? Take a listen to our friend Jules Epstein, Temple Law Professor. I should add here, nobody has a right to object to a search warrant directed to Amazon. We don't own that private information under United States Supreme Court case law. When you give information to a third party, you share your credit card, you make purchases,

and they keep that information. It's not yours. And so there is no absolute privacy interest where you can say, hey, my rights were violated when you searched my Amazon account. It's just not there. There's no standing. For instance, say a cop goes and breaks down Jackie's front door and finds her pot stash. FYI, she doesn't smoke pot. I can't go into court and go,

I want that suppressed under the Fourth Amendment. You'd have a warrant. I don't have what we call standing. In other words, no leg to stand on. It's not my place. They broke down the door to. Same thing here with Amazon. There's no way, there's no complaint that he can make

that any of that evidence, whatever it may be, can be suppressed. So we're not going to get an argument out of that. The trial date of October 2 obviously has come and gone. So what are we going to do now? When will it go to trial? I believe that a lot of electronic evidence is still being amassed. And while they are gathering that evidence, we have recently heard from Stacy Chapin. This is Ethan's mother. Listen.

My name is Stacy Chapin, and I'm Ethan's mom. And I actually didn't sit through it because it's too hard to watch, but I do want all of you to know that these were four of the greatest kids and that all of the great things that you read about them is legitimately true and I can speak on behalf of my own son who was an incredible human and we miss him all terribly but it's a very strange situation to be I'm not actually not a true crime follower but I am now thrust into the epicenter of something that has become pretty incredible but anyways don't forget these kids i i appreciate i did

watch the beginning where you spoke a little bit on behalf of all four kids and they truly they're amazing they were amazing amazing kids in the prime of their life. So that's all I can tell you. God bless you. I met Stacey at CrimeCon, and what a lovely, warm, brilliant, articulate person. Still struggling, still making her way, but remember, she has other children and she's trying to be strong for them. Nicole Parton, joining me, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. She is especially angry about people that suggested that this was somehow a murder-suicide by Ethan.

Nothing we've heard suggests that is true. Nothing at all. And I was there when she stood up and spoke and talk about heart moving and heartfelt. I understand totally why she would be angry at these outright lies and allegations. Ethan was completely innocent in all of this. And as a a mother both of us can definitely relate to the heartbreak she must be feeling you know Chris McDonough I think part of it is the intense speculation about what happened because so much so many of the facts are shrouded in mystery and they may remain shrouded if the judge closes the courtroom to cameras. You know, what a powerful, powerful message she gave from not only the fact that she spoke with authenticity

and the pain and the depth that you could hear and feel that moment she presented the messaging. It reminds all of us of our responsibility to just, you know, sometimes slow down and take a look at what's happening, not only in a social media aspect, in terms of where we are as a society and how, you know, quickly we can judge and make comments like that about a young man, you know, doing this and when in fact he's the actual victim. I understand that.

Nancy, you understand that. Oh, I do. Chris, you're so right. I've had so many stories spin out about my fiance Keith's murder that he was at a liquor store. Nothing can be further from the truth. He went out at lunchtime to go get other people's soft drinks to take back to a construction site.

To this, to that. And I remember the first time I ever spoke about that publicly, it was with Larry King. And out of the blue, he asked me the date. And I remembered, of course, August the 6th, but I blanked on the year. Can I tell you all the hate I got because I had the year wrong and um it got spun out to where just all kind of wild crazy

conspiracy speculation it was and it was very hurtful much less what Ethan's mother is going through with people and their evil tales about how this was a murder-suicide. That is not true. It's unbelievable that it would even come to that messaging because it does. It continues to be this step of pain that this family will go through all the way through the trial. And quite frankly, even the impact statements will never change the reality of their daily life. So, you know, my heart goes out to them and to this family. It really, really does. The pain these families have been going through. Karen Stark, what is wrong with people? Why do they intentionally spin out lies, hurtful lies,

like that the Idaho murders were a murder-suicide and Ethan was the perp? That's not true. Can you imagine the pain this is causing his family? And you can hear it in her voice, Nancy, the pain. Of course the pain will always be there. And people are good and bad, right? I mean, there are wonderful people in the world. And there are evil people in the world. And especially now that there's social media,

people can just comment anonymously and start rumors and spread them and they actually get something from it. They feel good about doing that even though it's hard to comprehend. And so we have to be really careful about paying attention to those kind of rumors that are just evil and hurtful and terrible for the families involved. Guys, we are waiting for a new trial date as the state and the defense continues to amass evidence for their cases. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.