Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Step-Dad Kidnaps, Rapes, MARRIES 6-YEAR-OLD GIRL

Episode Date: August 3, 2022

Suzanne Sevakis' story is a frightening one. Kidnapped as a child by the man she knew as her step-father, and raised as his daughter. They moved often, with Floyd changing their names each time. As the girl becomes a woman, Franklin Delano Floyd marries Sevakis and ultimately kills her and her son. Today on Crime Stories Nancy Grace talks with the Former FBI agent who cracked the case.  Joining Nancy Grace today: Scott Lobb - Former FBI Special Agent; LinkedIn: Scott Lobb   James Shelnutt - 27 years Atlanta Metro Area Major Case Detective; Former S.W.A.T. officer, Attorney (Gadsden, AL); The Shelnutt Law Firm, P.C., ShelnuttLawFirm.com, Twitter: @ShelnuttLawFirm  Dr. Jorey Krawczyn - Psychologist (Panama City Beach, FL), Adjunct Faculty with Saint Leo University;  Consultant,  Author: "Operation S.O.S. - Practical Recommendations to Help “Stop Officer Suicide;"  bw-institute.com   Dr. Tim Gallagher - Medical Examiner State of Florida PathcareMed.com, Lecturer: University of Florida Medical School Forensic Medicine, Founder/Host: International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference Kristy Mazurek - Emmy Award-winning Investigative Reporter  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Viewers across the world have branded a new Netflix special, quote, the most horrifying and sickening true crime documentary on Netflix. I'm talking about the Netflix documentary Girl in the Picture, which details how a man named Frank Delano Floyd kidnapped a six-year-old little girl, posed her as his daughter, and then married her. How is that happening in our country where you steal a little girl, pose her as your own daughter, and then marry her? I'm Nancy Grace.

This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. It's a really twisted story with a lot of aliases, AKAs, twists and turns, but we're going to try to get to the truth of what happened to this six-year-old little girl. Kidnapped, posed as the bio-daughter of her kidnapper, and then married to her kidnapper. First of all, let's just start at the beginning. Take a listen to our friends at CrimeOnline.com. Suzanne Savanka's story is a complicated one that begins with her mother, Sandy Shipman. Shipman has four children. She meets Brandon Williams and the couple date for just one month and then marry and move from North Carolina to Texas.

The wedded bliss doesn't last long. Shipman writes a bad check and is jailed for 30 days. Shipman returns home after serving her time, but her husband and children are gone. Shipman is able to find her younger daughters, Allison and Amy, in foster care, but has no luck in locating five-year-old Suzanne Savakas and her younger brother, Phillip. Okay, whoa. How does that happen in our country, number one? If you write a bad check, you're not going to jail because they don't even keep rapists and child molesters and ag assaulters in jail.

It's a total revolving door. But at that time in Texas, oh, yes, you're going to jail for a bad check. I need to hear that one more time. Take a listen again to our friend Dave Mack at CrimeOnline.com. Suzanne Savonka's story is a complicated one that begins with her mother, Sandy Shipman. Shipman has four children. She meets Brandon Williams and the couple date for just one month and then marry and move from North Carolina to Texas.

The wedded bliss doesn't last long. Shipman writes a bad check and is jailed for 30 days. Shipman returns home after serving her time, but her husband and children are gone. Shipman is able to find her younger daughters, Allison and Amy, in foster care, but has no luck in locating five-year-old Suzanne Savakas and her younger brother, Phillip. You go to jail for 30 days on a bad check, and you come home and two of your children are gone, including your five-year-old little girl and her brother. You'd find the other two children stuck in foster care. I mean, at this day and age, that would be on every headline on every

milk carton in the country. And I don't understand how this guy gets away with two children after sticking the other two in foster care. Can we just start? Dr. Jory Cross and psychologist joining us, faculty, St. Leo University, consultant, author of Operation SOS, getting married after one month. Can we just start with that? Well, that's an interesting personality right there. Probably on more like the borderline and just more of an impulsive reaction to the lust of the moment. Yeah, you know, we see stars do it all the time and everybody calls it a whirlwind romance, but they've got the money to afford an expensive divorce and work out all their issues and their property. When the rest of us do it, it's not really a good idea.

Getting married after 31 days of knowing someone or not knowing them. Dr. Jory, help me out. Yeah, well, I've seen it happen in my practice where, you know, I've treated patients on relational issues like that. And, you know, they met in a bar, got drinking together, and within a couple weeks, they're married. And they end up in your practice seeking help. That's right.

And they usually procreate and add to the situation, you know, they have children. And that's exactly what happened here. Guys, I've got an incredible panel, but I've got to go to a guy, an amazing guy, an FBI investigator. He invaded the suspect's personal space to solve the riddle of the girl in the picture. With me right now, Scott Lobb, former FBI special agent. Scott, this is an amazing story, and you must be an amazing FBI investigator to have cracked this thing. I'm just trying to take this chronologically because it's so, it's very confusing. I would have to definitely create some type of a flow chart if I were arguing this to a jury so they could keep looking back because everybody has aliases. Everybody goes all different ways across the country. But you cracked the riddle. First of all, why is it called the girl in the picture it's called the girl in the picture uh there's a photograph widely circulated online of suzanne savakas with a pretty bad haircut sitting in the lap of franklin

floyd and that was a photo taken for church directory here in oklahoma city back in the mid 70s okay wait stop right there number one what's wrong with that haircut because that's the one i had growing up. Except my hair was not down to my shoulders. I like to cut my hair starting at about age two. So my bangs would always be cut at the roots. Whenever my mom would turn her back,

I'd cut my hair. And on either side, it would be up like this where I did it myself and then my mom tried to fix it. So to me, that's a pretty good cut. It looks like he may have cut her hair in this picture. And I bet that's because he didn't want anyone that he didn't have to reveal himself to,

to see him with this child. So I was going to say the first time I saw this, this looks like a church directory photo because we've had them taken so many times since I was a little girl in the Methodist church for the church directory. That's exactly what this looks like. So this is in Oklahoma. It's a photo of Franklin Delano Floyd who kidnapped his little daughter, age five, forced her to marry him. Okay, so that's why it's called the girl in the picture, Scott.

It is, yes. That photo was given to, a guy brought that photo into the FBI because Franklin Floyd, who at the time of that photo was known as Trenton Davis, had given that photo to a friend of his. And Franklin Floyd actually tried

to recover that photo at a later date. And the guy told Franklin he didn't have it anymore. And the guy actually ended up finding it and bringing it to the FBI in 1994 when Michael was kidnapped. And Michael is? Suzanne Savakas' son. Okay. So let's just get this straight.

Suzanne Savakas is actually the little girl in the picture. Her mom, Sandy Chipman, is the one that after one month marries Franklin Delano Floyd, correct? Correct. And the brother we're talking about is Suzanne's brother? Suzanne's brother. But he was adopted by a family and raised by a family. And I talked to him a few years ago. He is alive and well. And there's a whole other story about that adoption involving Sandy Chipman and this boy, Philip Stephen. Chrissy, Missouri, joining me. Emmy Award winning investigative reporter.

So, Chrissy, let me understand so we can go forward with our names correctly. Suzanne Sivakis is the girl in the picture. Her son, she later had, is Michael Hughes, correct? That's correct. Okay. Suzanne's brother that was kidnapped along with her is Philip, correct? That's correct. You got it. And you're telling me, Scott Lobb, that later Philip was adopted by another family. That's correct. And I want to hear what happened to him. I want to get to the heart of how these two children just disappear and how this man, the defendant, ends up married to what was then a little girl, five to six years old when she was kidnapped. Take a listen to our friends

at Crime Online. It turns out Brandon Williams is an alias used by Franklin Delano Floyd. At the time Floyd met Sandy Shipman, he had a lengthy rap sheet and was on the run. Floyd reportedly abducted and raped a four-year-old girl and robbed a bank. The bank robbery earning him nine years behind bars. Then Floyd attacked a woman after just getting out of jail and then failed to appear in court and disappeared.

Disappearing was something that Floyd was good at. While Shipman was in jail, Floyd disappeared with two younger children, Suzanne and Phillip. Phillip was only six weeks old and was adopted by Mary and Bob Patterson. Two years ago, testing confirmed that Phillip was Sandy Shipman's son and Suzanne Savaka's brother. As for Suzanne, she disappeared with Floyd. He changed his name again. Suzanne's too. They are now Warren and Sharon Marshall, father and daughter. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Chrissy Mazurek joining us. Let me understand. Suzanne Savakas turns into Sharon Marshall, right? And they have to keep changing their names so they're not found out, correct? That's right. They change their name with each changing location as Floyd drags Suzanne throughout the United States. To James Shilna joining me, 27 years Metro Major case, former SWAT, now lawyer with the Shilna law firm out of Gadsden. James, thank you for being with us. You know, now this would be on every newscast, on every milk carton, on everywhere looking for these two.

So how is it the two managed to be kidnapped and taken away and nobody found them? Well, Nancy, you know, that was a different era, a different time. It was before the Internet. It was before the age of email, electronic communications. You know, nowadays, information that we receive about kidnappings is so instantaneous. It's automatically on Facebook. You get Amber Alerts on your phone. It's posted over social media. Well, back in those days, it was not that way. This is just a much different era and time where information was not instantaneous. The process was much slower,

and it was much easier for maniacs like this to get away with this for periods of time. Let it sink in. While the other children were eventually found, Franklin Delano Floyd kept Savakas, the little girl. He raised her. I told other people she was his bio daughter, his biological child. He changed her name to Sharon Marshall, spending years pretending she was his daughter before he forced her to marry him. I want to circle back. Scott Lobb joining me, former FBI special agent, who managed to crack the mystery of the girl in the picture. You know what I think? I think it had to do with the fact that the mother, the mother was deemed to be no account because she had gone to jail on that bad check. So when she's telling everybody he left with my children, I don't think anybody from jail, she discovered that her kids were gone.

And she found two of them, Allison and Amy, at a Baptist children's home in the Dallas area. But Suzanne was nowhere to be found. Sandy told me when I interviewed her that she went to the Dallas Police Department to report her youngest daughter, Suzanne, missing. The Dallas Police Department told her, there's nothing we can do. You're married to this man. It's perfectly fine for her, for Franklin Floyd to have the child. And then she continued looking,

but never found him. Let me understand also, Franklin Delano Floyd, a.k.a. Brandon Williams, a.k.a. Trenton Davis, a.k.a. Warren Marshall, was not her biological father. That is correct. Who's the dad? The dad is Clifford Savakis.

When I interviewed him, he was living in Michigan at the time. And he was, when he came back from Vietnam, Sandy had moved on, was living with another guy. And Mr. Savakas, Clifford Savakas, was out of their lives, out of Suzanne's life at that point. He tried to maintain contact, but ultimately Sandy moved on with her life with this new guy and her three kids. I'm trying to just get my mind wrapped around how, is she five or is she six, Scott Loeb, when she's abducted? At the time she was abducted, she was six years old. How a six-year-old can be taken away by a stepfather, no biological connection, and the cops actually tell the mom,

hey, that's her dad. There's nothing you can do about it. He's supposed to have her. You're the screw-up. That's basically what they told her. Correct. So let me understand this too. Scott Loeb joining me,

the guy who cracked the case of the girl in the picture. Did the mom, Chipley, have any idea she married a guy convicted of raping a four-year-old? No, she didn't. When that crime was committed, he was known as Franklin Floyd, his birth name. When he met Sandy, he was known as Brandon Cleo Williams. And that's the only name she's ever known for him to have was Brandon Cleo Williams until we talked to her and told her the story of who he really was. You know, to James Shelnut, former Metro Major Case Now lawyer, I love nothing more. Well, there's a lot of things I love about prosecuting crimes, but

one of the things I love the most is when I, the prosecutor got to stand in front of the jury and read the indictment and nothing would make me happier than to ring out a string of aliases so in this one it would be Franklin Delano Floyd aka also known as Brandon Cleo Williams also known as Trenton Davis, also known as Warren Marshall. Oh, absolutely. I loved it. I loved it as well. And I will tell you that it shows that they're trying to hide from the past of what they're done.

They're deceitful. Their entire life is a lie. And everything they're about to tell you as the jury and everything you're about to hear and everything he's told everyone else that he's dealt with and victimized is a lie also that she used to manipulate. And that's what has happened. He's manipulated. You know, to Dr. Tim Gallagher, the medical examiner for the state of Florida, you can find it at PathCareMed.com. And he's lecturer at University of Florida Medical School and the founder and host of the International Forensic

Medicine Death Investigation Conference. Now that that's a big party. Dr. Gallagher, you know what's burning me up right now? So many things. But do you know what I would put somebody through if they were going to live with my children? No. There would be a rap sheet. I'd find out about his family. There is no way in H-E-double-L that some man is going to slink in and be around my children. This guy had a conviction for raping a four-year-old, plus a lot of other things, but that one just jumped out at me. She had no idea. She didn't even know his real name. There were so many to pick from. Here's my question to you, Dr. Gallagher. You're the medical examiner. How many times have you had to autopsy a child who was killed by the boyfriend, the live-in, the new husband, the fiance of mommy.

I mean, it's like women pick this POC, technical legal term, over their children. Do they need a man that badly? Neither here nor there, Dr. Gallagher. My sister interned for one of our congresspeople when I guess she was in college. She brought home a t-shirt. I'll never forget it. A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle. And I totally, when she got tired of it, totally stole it.

But you do all that to have a man? You don't even know his real name? How many times have you autopsied a child? Infant, 2-15, that was killed by mommy's boyfriend, new husband, live-in, blah, blah. Well, it's amazing. It's been quite a few. And that's a very, very common story. As a matter of fact, if that isn't the story, then I question the validity of the narrative.

You know, most of the stories start out with, why do you talk like that? Number one, I questioned the validity of the narrative. Why don't you just say somebody's lying? But typically that's how the story is. It's always, it's usually 99% of the time, you know, the, the, the child of the mother, and then the boyfriend who's not married to the mother is involved, you know, so, and typically they're... Also known as he did it. Well, right, FOB, well, non-FOB, non-father of the baby, you know, so normally it is the

boyfriend of the mother, not the father of the child. And you know, Chrissy Mazurek, you and I have covered it a million times. Mommy brings home a POC and he kills the baby. Too many times that we care to relive. You know, back to you, Scott Lobb, who is the star,

the former FBI special agent who actually cracked this case. And you know what? Scott Lobb, I know he has committed murder and I am, I really admire what you did. He's good for two that we know of. He's strongly suspected in Suzanne's death in Oklahoma City in 1990. The little girl that he kidnapped, married, raped, and then ends up dead. Yes. That little girl. Oh yeah, he totally killed her. And who's the other? The other is the girl named Cheryl Camesso, who was a dancer with Suzanne in Tampa, who he murdered. And that's

for which he sits on death row is for her murder in Florida. When you say dancer, do you mean stripper? I did mean stripper. Okay. Can we just make sure, let's just call it like it is. I don't care if she's a stripper or she's performing at the Met. I don't care. She was murdered.

Now, I, like you, do not like to trash victims. But if it's the truth, it's the truth. And it tells me a lot about Scott Lobb. I'm not going to bother for dramatic purposes to recount all of his aliases. So what I'm understanding is, mommy, after one month, marries Franklin Delano Floyd. She catches a bad check charge. She goes to jail one month, marries Franklin Delano Floyd. She catches a bad check charge. She goes to jail. One month, comes home.

Two of her children are in foster care at the Baptist Church, and two others are missing. One of them, ultimately, the baby, the boy, gets adopted by a family. And then Suzanne, her little five-year-old girl, is just lost. And here comes the mommy with a bad check charge, and she's a stripper, begging cops for help, and nobody does a damn thing. Do I have the facts now, Scott? Well, the mom, Sandy, was not a stripper. No, no, no, Suzanne. Suzanne was. Yes. Suzanne

was. She was a stripper in both Tampa, Florida and Tulsa, Oklahoma. Gotcha. Thank you. So baby Michael, let me understand, is put into foster care and later adopted. But then when he's in first grade, Franklin Delano Floyd walks into his elementary school with a gun and takes him. Police searched for Floyd and Michael for weeks. He was eventually arrested in Louisville, Kentucky when he tried to get a new driver's license. What do you mean, Christy Mazurky walks into an elementary school and kidnaps a first grader? That's right. Well, that's part of the whole madness of this man. He wanted what he believed was his and was going to take any means in order to retrieve Michael back.

Again, you've got to remember the timeline here. There's already the mother's dead, Suzanne's dead, and now he's coming back to get Michael. So at gunpoint, he takes the child. He forces a member of the school administration to take him to Michael's classroom and remove them, and then he's on the lam, where he's quickly then caught by law enforcement. Now, the little girl, the girl in the picture, Suzanne Savakis, of course,, the fake dad changes her name to Sharon Marshall. Take a listen to our cut three, our friend Dave Mack.

Sharon Marshall grew up to be a smart, gifted student, earning a full scholarship to study aerospace engineering. Before Sharon could attend college, she became pregnant. Finally, Savakas decided to run away with her secret boyfriend and take her toddler Michael with them. She tried, but reportedly Franklin Floyd tracked her down, and it's the boyfriend who witnesses the disappearing act this time. Floyd and Savakas leave town, moving first to Tampa, then settling in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Only this time, they were Clarence and Tanya Hughes,

a married couple. Just a few weeks later, Suzanne Savakas, a.k.a. Tanya Hughes, was found on the side of an Oklahoma highway with bruises and a head injury. While her injuries were suspicious, when Savakas dies, her death was assumed to be a hit and run. Just got love joining us, former FBI who cracked the case of the little girl in the picture. Suzanne gets her name changed to Sharon Marshall. And despite being kidnapped and married and raped by her stepfather, she actually grows up to be smart and gifted and gets a full scholarship to study aerospace engineering.

That's a miracle. It is a miracle. You look at the history of her upbringing when she was Sharon Marshall living and going to high school in Georgia. The horror that she had to live in with Franklin Floyd, well documented, And she somehow was still able to be a just a brilliant and gifted student who ultimately got a full ride to Georgia Tech to study aerospace engineering. It's incredible to me. Which is one of the top engineering schools in the world. So when you say the horror that she lived with, what do you mean by that? She was subjected to sexual abuse. Franklin Floyd, during the investigation, we found photographs of Suzanne in various states

of undress that were taken by Franklin Floyd. There's the witness statements from some of her friends that she was raped by Franklin Floyd. And she had a very, Franklin was very controlling, would not let her out of the house. She had to be back home by a certain time to make him dinner, to take care of him. And she made excuses to all her friends about why she had to go home and take care of daddy, as she called him.

So when Suzanne would, when people would try to, hey, Suzanne, we're going to go hang out after school. She said, I can't. I have to go take care of my dad, that being Franklin. And she would always make excuses for him every day, all day. She had no freedoms whatsoever, unless if he was involved in that freedom. Did she ever wonder what happened to her mother?

Yes. Some of the people we talked to, some of the witnesses, they did say that she had memories of her mom, but she quickly changed the subject, didn't want to talk about it state to state. She's living under another name. I'm sure no one would give her information about her mom. So for a child that young, who is getting raped probably on a nightly basis by her fake dad, how is she going to find mom? I mean, that was another lifetime ago for her. She's all alone in this world. Dr. Jory Croson, a psychologist joining us, faculty at St. Leo University and author. Dr. Jory, she's completely isolated. But we often find that in cases of child molestation.

Yeah, that's like a prisoner of war. She's definitely a captive. You know, looking back on that relationship with her mother and with Floyd, him being a pedophile, he basically groomed and picked out the mother for the children, okay? Marrying the mother was just giving him access to her. that so often. Here's a quick example that everyone can relate to. Cherish Periwinkle, the little girl who was shopping at, I guess, Dollar General or Family Dollar with mom and the sisters. And she is approached by a guy that offers to help them out with a gift card. They then go to, I think, a Walmart superstore, and he keeps waiting for his wife to show up with a gift card. He takes, I believe, eight or nine-year-old Cherish to get a hamburger in the front. There's actually McDonald's inside the superstore. They just keep walking. Police largely discount what the mother, Rain, is telling them, and the child is raped, sodomized, and strangled,

then submerged in water under a log until she's found. The whole reason the perp befriended the mom was to get to the daughter, and he did. And this guy, Franklin Delano Floyd, did it as well. Guys, take a listen to our friends at CrimeOnline.com. When Suzanne Savakas, Tony Hughes, dies, her young son Michael is taken out of Floyd's care by the Department of Human Services and placed in a foster home. Floyd is allowed visitation rights, but Michael referred to him as that mean man. Floyd tried to get custody of the boy for years, but DHS orders paternity tests, which

confirmed Floyd has no biological connection to the boy. Floyd's parental rights are terminated. Now, Michael's foster family sets an adoption in motion. Here comes another disappearing act. Six-year-old Michael Hughes is kidnapped from his school along with the school principal at gunpoint. The administrator is left tied to a tree in the nearby woods. Two months later, Floyd is arrested in Kentucky. But Michael isn't with him, and he has never been found. You know, Scott Lobb, former FBI, who cracked this case, it's really, it's heartbreaking, the entire story.

I want you to take a listen to one more thing, Scott, before I return to you. Take a listen to Dave Morris with the Oklahoman. For 20 years, infamous kidnapper Franklin Delano Floyd stuck to variations of the same lie about the fate of the six-year-old boy he took from a Choctaw elementary school in 1994. Michael Anthony Hughes had been taken to a safe place,

Floyd would say. Floyd would also say the boy was his son, despite what a blood test showed, and he did what he had to do. But from death row in Florida in September of 2014, Floyd finally admitted to two FBI agents what had been suspected all along. And more from Dave Morris. He had killed Michael the same day after it became clear his plans to raise the boy while a fugitive weren't going to work this time. For Michael's foster parents, the revelation provided some closure. Ernest and Merle Bean feel Michael, who sings solos at church, is now with Jesus. When they came out to the house and they told us the situation, in a way it was relief because we knew that he wasn't being hurt. And like I said in the letter, that when he took his last breath here on this earth,

that he was in the arms of Jesus his very next breath. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. To Scott Lomb, who cracked the case of the girl in the picture. Could you start at the beginning and explain to us, mere mortals, how you did it? So it started actually the year before when I got notified about the case and it was assigned to me. And I spent a year reviewing the very thick case file that the FBI put together at the time of the kidnapping. I watched everything I could on YouTube. There were videos of Franklin Floyd addressing various committees when he was trying to fight for Michael. I listened to every jail call that we had still on the old cassette tapes. Thank goodness the FBI still keeps cassette recorders around. And I wanted to know who I was dealing with. I want to know everything about

him, how he treated people. I wanted to just dig into who he was. I wanted to know this man before I even thought about setting foot on death row to go talk to him. And when that time came, that preparation was so key in refuting the lies that Floyd would throw up, that he'd thrown up to people, to journalists, to other law enforcement officers over the 20 years before we talked to him, that worked so well for him. He tried those same things with us, but because Nate and I were so prepared, we could refute anything he said with the facts that we knew from the case file and from the investigation that had been done before we got involved. And furthermore, when we're in the interview room with Floyd, I literally sat knee to knee with him. And if we call, you know, it's called proxemics and we want to get into their personal space. If Floyd is leaning back, trying to get away from me as he's telling a lie, I'm leaning forward because I want to maintain that equidistant between him at all times. Now, if he's talking and he's somewhat relaxed and we're not really talking about a subject he doesn't want to talk about and he's leaned back relaxed, I'll lean back and relax.

I mirror his tone. I mirror his tone. I mirror his language. And that's ultimately we were able to get Floyd to a point where he ran out of excuses and we had painted him into a corner with his own statements, with his own words and with a timeline from the time he took Michael to the time he exited the highway before he got into Texas and killed Michael. Nancy, he just ran out of excuses. We were able to corner him that way based on that preparation and based on smart and sound interview and interrogation techniques. You know, Scott Lobb, I think that it's hard to understand how much prep is required to understand the nuances of the facts when you go into a situation like yours, because this guy has so many names, so many lies, so many agendas going on. We know he's murdered at least two people, at least two. And he'll do anything.

Who would go into an elementary school with a gun and kidnap a little boy that's not related to you? I'm sure to either rape him or live as if he's his bio son, just like he did with Suzanne. I mean, nothing good would have come of that. Nothing good did come of that. Nothing good did come of that. You have to arm yourself with every minute fact.

So when he lies, you have an answer. What was his demeanor? Franklin Floyd is combative most times you talk to him. He just lies. That's all he does. He lies. He tries to misdirect. He tries to take you down rabbit holes. And there were times, I will tell you, he would tell me after in the debrief, because quit letting him take you down rabbit holes. And I told Nate, I said, listen, he has to have a sense of victory every now and then.

I don't want this guy to shut down. I think we're getting close. I need to let him have those victories every, or at least that sense of victory every now and then. And Nate agreed, and we allowed him to do that. But he, because a lot of times when we did that, we'd start questioning again on another line that we were interested in and he was less combative. And then he'd eventually see where we were going and he would, he would get that combative level back up. But he just, he's just a mean guy. He just, he's nothing's his fault. He's never done anything wrong in his life. And that's how he presents himself to law enforcement at all times.

What were the circumstances surrounding the murder of Cheryl Canesso, the dancer? Cheryl had reported to Human Services in Florida that Suzanne was dancing and making money. She was mad at Franklin. I don't remember the reason why. And Franklin found out that she had reported the additional income, so that cut off some of their benefits. And Franklin ultimately murdered her for it. Guys, take a listen to our cut seven, our friends at the Oklahoman. It's a tangled story. In August of 2015, the FBI issued a press release saying a decades-old cold case had been solved, that Floyd had told the investigators what happened to Michael Hughes.

Floyd had murdered the first grader on the same day he kidnapped him. They were driving from Oklahoma City to Dallas. The youngster was being a typical six-year-old, out of control, until Floyd shot him twice in the back of the head. Following the FBI's announcement in August of 2015, the foster parents, Ernest and Merle Bean, wrote a letter expressing their thoughts, but only mailed it a few weeks ago to the Oklahomans' Nolan Clay. Nolan and our Tim Money sat down with the Beans as they shared their emotions. This whole time, I figured that Michael was dead, that he killed him early on.

I figured that right from the start. And it went right along. My view was I would rather him be dead than living somewhere in torment, suffering, wanting to come home, couldn't. To you, Scott Love, why did he go to all the effort to kidnap Michael, who is Suzanne's son, the little girl in the picture

that he kidnapped, raped, married. Why did he kill him? Though Michael was not Franklin Floyd's son, he, Franklin Floyd and Suzanne were married at the time when Michael was born, and he thought of Michael as his son and Nate in the interview room suggested to Franklin that Michael was to replace Sharon he was going to be the new or the new Suzanne and he wanted to raise Michael the same way he raised Suzanne but he realized that he had a ton of law enforcement people breathing down his neck on the day of that kidnapping. And he decided in his depraved mind to murder Michael on the same day he kidnapped him. Where does the case stand now, Scott Lobb?

The case is closed. The case is closed. Although there is, I will tell you, there's one question I would love to go back and sit down and talk to him about, and that is the death of Suzanne on the side of the road in Oklahoma City in 1990. Explain. I wanted three questions answered, and the first one was, who was Sharon Marshall? We now know it's Suzanne Sabakis, and I want to know how and why he killed Michael. And the third one was, why did you kill Suzanne in 1990? And he just wouldn't talk about it. And the only thing I can think of is he was with her for

so long from 1974, 75, all the way to the time he killed her in 1990,. The only thing I can think of is he felt a connection to her. And that killing her immediately produced some type of regret for his actions in him. I don't know that because he won't talk about it. Do you have any doubt that he killed her? She's found by the side of the road. Do you have any doubt that he killed her? No. And let's go to Dr. Tim Gallagher, our medical examiner out of Florida.

I mean, she died from a crushing blow to the head. Can't you tell as a medical examiner whether that was from a wreck, a hit and run, or from a blow to the head? It can generally be determined. Generally, if you're hit by a car, not only do you have head injuries, you know, you have rib fractures, you have leg fractures, you know, your back is broken. You know, all your organs are lacerated in some way. They're damaged. You know, a typical single blow to the back of the head is usually an assault. You know, someone comes up behind you and hits you in the back of the head with a large object, a baseball bat, an ax, something like that.

So, yeah, the medical examiner can determine whether you were hit by a car or assaulted in a homicidal manner. little girl, takes her away from her mother, marries her, rapes her, ultimately murders her to leave her on the side of the road, murders her son, Michael, after kidnapping him from first grade, murders Cheryl Canesso, a stripper. He's still alive. He's got three hots and a cot on the Florida death row. Franklin Delano Floyd, or whoever you really are, rot in hell. This guy, we would never have known the truth without former FBI special agent, Scott Lopp. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.