Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Stephen Smith: Grisly Crime Scene Photos Analyzed

Episode Date: March 30, 2023

As the legal legwork continues, pushing for the exhumation of Stephen Smith's body, crime screen photos raise important questions about the original investigation. Why was there mud caked on the teen's shoes? Why was his car's gas cap askew? If Stephen Smith was hit by a car, why wasn't there more blood at the scene?   Nancy Grace talks in-depth with Chris McDonough. He's the Director at the Cold Case Foundation,a former homicide detective, and host of YouTube channel,  'The Interview Room.’See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The photos are out there now. They are photos, I believe, first used by HBO in an investigative special they did on the Murdochs, including Stephen Smith not showing, but they've been picked up on many outlets and publicized, there are photos of Stephen Smith's body lying literally on the yellow line in the center of the road. And you see his blood on the road. And I can only imagine what that's doing to his mother, Sandy. This with the backdrop of Alex Murdoch's and his family's home, his possessions, personal photos of family trips and vacations.

Everything has gone on the block, netting several million dollars. We also learned, as the Stephen Smith case is bubbling, we learned that Alex Murdoch may have planned the murders of at least Maggie, if not Maggie and Paul, up to six months prior to the double homicide. I'm Nancy Grace, guys. Thanks for being with us. With me, a real expert, Chris McDonough, star of The Interview Room on YouTube. You can find him at coldcasefoundation.org, but he is the former homicide detective with well over 300 homicide cases, investigations under his belt. You know, Chris McDonough, thank you for being with us. I hardly know where to start with all of this, but let's just start with the crime scene photos. I don't want to show them

of Stephen Smith's body. I don't think that's what his mother wants right now. But I have seen them, having been pulled from the program on HBO Max. The one, I want you to give me your opinion. One, first of all, he's positioned directly on the center line, the yellow line. You've driven the road as have I. It's really dark, no street lights, nothing. And I'm telling you, Chris McDonough, I know you drove

it. I don't know if you drove it at night, but you can see a vehicle coming. I'm not kidding, a mile away. And on this stretch, it's not a curve curve it's not like the car could suddenly come out from around a curve and mow him down he would have seen a car coming my literally miles away 100% Nancy and I think you know you pointed it out here on your show that when you first see this photograph of this young man laying dead center in the middle of the road, you do have to ask yourself, well, wait a minute. There was a car that obviously passed him that called 911 and said, hey, there's somebody in the middle of the road. You need to get the police out here because somebody's, quote, hit him end quote well we go back and we we look at

this photograph and we think to ourselves well wait a minute how did this young man get into that position if there was an automobile accident I mean it's like he's lying there on his back, like in a movie, staged. And his legs have bent over at the knee to his left. And he's lying there, one arm, his left arm down right beside him, literally placed in the middle of the road. Now, if you keep looking, you you see and this is really important. I'd like you to look at the photo of him where you see the blood. It doesn't look like his body has been dragged any distance at all. It looks like the blood is originated from under his head and slowly going off to his right. It's not like he was hit and you see blood along

the road to where his body is. It looks like the blood originates right there where he's lying and then just he bleeds out from there there's no indication that his body was hit by a car and moved any distance at all i i agree i agree and if you look if we look even further to your point at his upper right arm that's sticking out. He appears to have some type of blood transfer that is emanating towards the top of his arm, where the majority of the blood is at the bottom on the roadway. So at some point, either A, he had to be moving, or B, he was moved.

That would cause that type of transfer. Now that would have to be examined a little bit closer, but that is also another part of this blood pattern analysis here that just sticks out almost immediately. The position of his legs as well, Nancy, I mean, you've commented on it numerous times about how they're just folded there. What I would be interested in knowing is at the autopsy, are there impressions top, i.e. underneath his arms, which would cause that potential transfer on the right arm or at the bottom, a second person by the ankles positioned in the middle of the roadway. Okay. Could you say that one more time about the position of the legs of Stephen Smith's legs. I mean, I've never, and I've handled a lot of dead body cases, homicides, suicides. I've never, except for a woman that

was lying in bed. She was lying in bed when her husband murdered her and set it up to look like suicide. That's the only time I've ever seen someone just lying there like sleeping beauty until this usually you know their limbs are askew and in odd odd configurations that don't look natural here it's like he's been lying there reading and he just his legs folded over and he's just lying there will you would you repeat your analysis one more time? Yes, and that is typically a potential indication that the body was picked up and moved to this position. Not that the young man was walking in the middle of the roadway

and struck by a car and ended up in this position. But this positional, I would submit to you, is more consistent with potentially even two people moving this body to this point. Because you would have to have somebody at the ankles and you would have to have somebody at the top and you would have have to have somebody at the top and typically under the armpit so as if you're doing the remember the old fireman carry yep where you yeah and then kind of somebody get the ankles and then move him boom drop him and if they dropped him hypothetically and that would cause the type of head bleed that we're seeing there. What I'm not seeing, and I would like to see the autopsy photographs, is any onset of lividity.

We're not able to see that in these particular photographs. I don't see any rigor. I would not expect his legs to be in that position if rigor had set in. I mean, what do you think about that? No, I agree with you 100%. I'm not seeing any of that. Hi, guys. Nancy Grace here. Join us now on Fox Nation for our brand new special,

Children of Serial Killers, a Nancy Grace investigation. Parents by day, killers by night. But what about the sons and daughters of brutal murderers? Are they forever haunted by their parents' crimes? What happens when they find out mommy or daddy's a killer? In this new special, we investigate the lives of children of serial killers, weaving the timelines of the parents' crimes into their home lives, speaking directly with sons and daughters of serial killers, including the children of the Craigslist killer,

the chameleon killer, and more. We hear from experts in the field. Don't miss this. Join us now for Children of Serial Killers, a Nancy Grace investigation streaming exclusively on Fox Nation. Go to foxnation.com to watch. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we were talking about the death of a teen boy, Stephen Smith, that has been connected to the Murdoch family.

The proximity of his body being within eight minutes of the Murdoch hunting lodge. I mean, is that a coincidence? Now, again, let me reiterate, Alex Murdoch's surviving son that he didn't kill is Buster Murdoch, who has vehemently denied any connection to Stephen Smith's death. Now, is it a coincidence that he's found so close to Moselle, the Murdoch hunting lodge? And another thing, would that be his normal route home from school? He was at night school studying nursing. Would that be his route home out in the middle of nowhere by Moselle? That is a great question. And you know what's really eerie

about this as well, Nancy, is right down the road about I think it's less than four miles is where Mallory Beach is laid to rest. So if you leave the cemetery where Mallory Beach is and go towards where Stephen Smith is found, they're on the exact same road. And so that is there a familiarity with this region, right, to this individual who potentially did this. And that's what I started looking at internally in my mind was, okay, well, let's take a look at this kid's shoes. And that's when I started looking at his shoes because, you know, everybody was talking about, and you and I have talked about it here, that, if he's hit by a car typically those shoes are going airborne

but in this case his shoes are on and so you know as we talked even earlier today those shoes tell us a lot of information about the potential environments where this young man could have been. You know, another issue I have with the car. If a car was traveling, I haven't heard anyone ask this. The speed limit's 55. At 55, wouldn't there be an indication that Stephen Smith was, you know, tumbled down the road, pushed down the road instead of just lying there in one fixed position? Yes, and you would typically see what, remember what road raft, you would typically see, especially on asphalt like this, you may even see the body and a mirror you know, strike then you're going to see parts of that mirror, you may even see parts of the skull

because if there's a high velocity of a vehicle and impacting a stationary object such as a human body you're going to have a lot of damage to that mirror, potentially, and you're going to see those parts there. And I think that was a huge red flag for the South Carolina Highway Patrol getting into

this right from the get-go. Now, the Murdoch family is saying they had nothing to do with Stephen Smith's death. Number one, the body is in very close proximity to Moselle, the Murdoch hunting lodge where Gloria Satterfield met her death and Paul and Maggie Murdoch met their deaths. Also, we have Randy Murdoch, the brother of double killer Alex Murdoch. According to Stephanie Smith, now that is Stephen Smith's sister, quote, Randy Murdoch was the second person to call my dad after the coroner. That's quite the coincidence, isn't it? That at that time, right after the coroner calls, Murdoch calls, Randy Murdoch, second person to call my dad after the coroner. He wanted to take the case and said it would be free of charge.

That's a creepy echo, isn't it? That's what Murdoch, Alex Murdoch, said to the Satterfield family. Yeah, boy, doesn't that sound strange at 4 o'clock in the morning? That all of a sudden, you know, there's an attorney involved right from the get-go. The investigation hasn't even kicked off yet. Okay, speaking of Alex Murdoch, I mean, coincidence, yes. I never believe in coincidences when it comes to criminal law, but I can't build a case on a coincidence or rumors or gossip at the Piggly Wiggly. But I do want to talk to you about another issue regarding Alex Murdoch, Chris McDonough. Chris McDonough is joining me from

the interview room. You can find him on YouTube. That's his YouTube channel. I want to talk about the startling, the disturbing facts emerging that Alex Murdoch may have planned Maggie's death at least six months before he murdered her? What's that theory all about, Chris McDonough? So, I interview Mark Kinsley, who is the attorney for Mallory Beach. He tells us, he tells us and tells me that I went back, him, to Maggie's Facebook post. And I was trying to establish, and you'll know the legal terminology to this better than anybody, Nancy.

But what he was trying to establish was, did the Murdochs have this knowledge that Paul was a heavy drinker? And if so, could he tie that into the boat crash, i.e. potentially Paul being the driver? And if so, does that show, you know, a liability to the family? Because they knew that this young man had a propensity towards, you know, reckless behavior. So what he did is he went to the Facebook page, screenshot all of Maggie's posts involving Paul in, you know, poses with alcohol. I mean, he's got pictures of him on the beach. He's got pictures of, you know, him with alcohol. I mean, he's got pictures of him on the beach. He's got pictures of, you know, him drinking at the bars, et cetera. And the list goes on.

And what was interesting about that, and remember, he testified about that in Murdoch's trial. That's right. But he told me, he said the light didn't go on until after the conviction, or excuse me, until after I started hearing additional evidence in the trial that, wait a minute, when he went to Alec, and this was part of the blow up, right, at the Lawyers Association meeting at Hilton Head, when he went in to talk to Alec, or when Alec approached him, he gave Alec the opportunity to get Maggie out of the cage. That's right. He did not want to sue Maggie. And he told him about this information that he had and submitted it to Murdoch's attorney then at that point. And it was, he said, about 30 days later, Alec refused to basically, you know, let it in. And so what Mark Tinsley said was, I was shocked that this guy was throwing his wife under the bus six months

before any of this started to come together. And it was at that moment, he had the aha moment after the murders. And this is what he brought to the solicitor's office in the AG. He said, look, there's more to this. This guy's been thinking about this for quite some time. Because he had the opportunity to kick Maggie. Alex Murdoch had the choice, the opportunity to remove Maggie from the lawsuit. But he didn't.

He did not remove. Who wouldn't remove their own wife or husband from the lawsuit, but he didn't. He did not remove. Who wouldn't remove their own wife or husband from a lawsuit when you know they're gunning for you? Why drag the spouse into it? And he didn't. So how does that tell you he had planned the murder since that moment? Well, it goes to malice of forethought. Was he premeditating this whole thing? And now we tie that into the statement that the sister-in-law tells him when she asked, or that she heard from him when he asked her, when she asked him, excuse me, and he makes the comment, the person that did this has been thinking about this a very long time.

Mm-hmm. You're right. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You know, one thing that just hit me about Stephen Smith. What about this, Chris McDonough? I was told that the blue chips, the microscopic chips on Stephen Smith's remains were discovered at the funeral home, not at the crime lab. If that's true, the crime lab has a lot of explaining to do, and if that's true, that means that that shirt may not still be in existence to be analyzed unless the mother took it and kept it. Yeah, I agree with you. And we also have to ask ourselves, what else potentially have they missed?

And do they have it, even in the chain of custody? Is it somewhere hopefully we can we can pray that sled has that chain of custody correctly well i mean if the shirt the blue chips are found at the funeral home there is no longer a chain of custody i mean that's over because it's been in the hands of the funeral home and then i guess I guess, given back to the family. If the paint chips, and I'm talking about microscopic, I don't mean like a paint chip that you take to Lowe's to try to match up paint, not that kind of chip, not that big.

But if they were discovered at the funeral home, we're up the creek without a paddle on chain of custody. Yes, ma'am. I mean, have you ever gotten anything like that in, in your experience? Yes. I have. I have gotten something in where I could show why the chain was broken and I could vouch for where the item had been during the break in the chain. So so i don't know i just that's bad that is bad for the state because those chips could be invaluable

what if they're not chips off of a car what if there're chips off something else? What if they're particles from, I don't know, a bat? I don't know what they're from. But if I can't introduce it into evidence because there's no chain of custody, it doesn't even matter.

I mean, there's got to be a legal exception for cases like this where you find evidence and it was not kept in a chain of custody. That's a whole other animal we're going to have to deal with. But back to, I just wanted to get your opinion on that. Back to Stephen Smith as it relates to the Murdochs. You've been to the area and you've driven the roads. The fact that this is so close to

Moselle, the hunting lodge. I mean, can we just be realistic? How many cars are out there at that time of the night? I would say it's going to be very limited traffic flow. In fact, I know the South Carolina Highway Patrol even did a traffic flow survey. I think that's on their mate report and their notes. But also more interestingly, in the traffic flow in of itself, the question's going to be, he knows this area. And so what's his habit pattern? I mean, you know, as you know,

what we used to call a victimology, what does this young man typically do through habit? What does this young man do? And from everything that we're learning from his mother is walking in the middle of the road and his sister confirms it was just completely out of character for this guy. So then we have to think about, and I heard it on your show, where Eric Bland mentioned an iPad. Well, we know where this young man's phone is. Is this his iPad or is this something that was discovered during the investigative process on these other cases? I think what they're going to be looking at on the phone, which to our reports has been cracked. They obviously got the password from a family member or figured it out.

I think they're going to be looking at specifically who was he talking to, texting and calling right up to the moment of his death. And I think that they are going to be looking for any evidence as it relates to an alleged upcoming deep sea fishing trip with someone that was wealthy that either had or could get a boat. That someone has remained nameless. He has remained nameless. He didn't say who. But that's what they're going to be looking for. Plans to go fishing that weekend. Who is it with? Who is the anonymous suitor the date?

And who is he speaking to that night? That's what they're going to be looking for on that phone. Chris? Yeah, I agree with you And that leads us into what we talked about Here on your show Why those shoe potential The bottom of those shoes And even the top of those shoes Could be very significant In relationship to

That wet mud And the dry mud And the wet shoes Because there is no water source in the middle of that road oh it doesn't exist no water source at all so where did that come from guys uh in the last hours we will learn a savannah woman actually finds murdoch family photos after bidding on a camera at the murdoch estate sale the estate sale netted a couple of million dollars. That's really interesting to me that there were reams of family photos that were undiscovered

by SLED. I don't know if any of them, they were on memory cards. But that's something I would have wanted to look at just to see what, if anything, it would reveal, Chris. Yeah, and if the search warrant says any type of electronic devices, they missed it. And, you know, you're 100 percent right, Nancy. I mean, if I came to you as an investigator and you the prosecutor and I said, hey, we got a problem, that's exactly the conversation we would be having. Right. What do you mean? What are you talking about? in the last couple of hours that he is assembling a dream team to work on this case, including Dr. Kinsey. As you'll recall, Kinsey was a huge home run on the case in the Alex Murdoch double murder trial. Dr. Michelle Dupree, who's a fantastic medical examiner, pathologist, former detective in the South Carolina jurisdiction, and others. I think it's going to take a team. Do you? Yeah, absolutely. And it sounds like they've assembled an amazing group of individuals who will be able to think through this

and bring hopefully some justice to this young man, at least kickstart it. Yeah, first order of business is getting the exhumation done. That is number one. Chris McDonough, thank you for joining us. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. falls. Goodbye.