Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - STILL MISSING: Gretchen Fleming Disappears After Night Out With Friends

Episode Date: January 10, 2023

Gretchen Fleming, 28, disappears after an evening out with a friend, but video captured her leaving the My Way Lounge & Restaurant in Parkersburg, West Virginia, with an older man.  This person of interest reportedly has provided inconsistent accounts of what happened that evening. Police say the man took Fleming to his home.  He says he dropped Fleming off.  The young woman's purse with her cellphone, ID, and money was left behind in the lounge. As the search continues, human remains are found nearly two hours from the last location where Gretchen was seen. Where is Gretchen?  Joining Nancy Grace today: David Fleming – Father Dale Carson - High Profile Attorney (Jacksonville), Former FBI Agent, Former Police Officer (Miami-Dade County), Author: "Arrest-Proof Yourself Caryn Stark - NYC Psychologist; Twitter: @carynpsych, Facebook: "Caryn Stark"   Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University; Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet," and Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan"  Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert, Founder: Cold Case Investigative Research Institute in Atlanta, GA; Twitter: @ColdCaseTips; Host of the new podcast: "Zone 7"  Dave Mack - CrimeOnline Investigative reporter  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Harrowing details now coming to light in the case of a beautiful missing young woman, Gretchen Fleming, who seemingly leaves a bar with an older man the night of her disappearance. But she was stumbling very oddly. Was she slipped a roofie? Did she get GHB? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. What happened to this gorgeous young Gretchen Fleming? Leaving a bar with a guy has not been seen or heard from since.

But in the last hours, a bizarre twist in the search for Gretchen. Again, I'm Nancy Grace. Thanks for being with us. In the last hours, we learn that West Virginia officials find suspected human remains just two hours from where the brunette beauty was last seen alive. Straight out to CrimeOnline.com's Jackie Howard. Jackie, what can you tell us? West Virginia officials say suspected human remains were found approximately two hours from the location in Parkersburg

where Gretchen Fleming was last seen with an unnamed male. The human remains were found in Elm Grove. Ohio County Sheriff Tom Howard says last seen with an unnamed male. The human remains were found in Elm Grove. Ohio County Sheriff Tom Howard says officials were led to the suspected human remains after his office got a call from another department regarding a missing person. Those remains were taken to a local funeral home for a medical examiner to perform an investigation. 27-year-old Gretchen Fleming last seen in the early morning hours of December 4 at a restaurant bar My Way in Parkersburg. She left with an unknown man seemingly willingly. But who can leave willingly if you're under the influence of a date rape drug? About two hours outside of Parkersburg,

where Fleming goes missing, suspected human remains were found. It's a little town called Elm Grove. Ohio County Sheriff Tom Howard, who says officials were led to the human remains on Thursday after his office gets a call from another department regarding a missing person. Now, those two cases may not be connected. You know what?

There's only one way to do this. Let's start at the beginning about when Gretchen goes missing. Take a listen to our friends at WCHS. The Parkersburg Police Department is asking for your help in finding 27-year-old Gretchen Fleming of Vienna. Detectives say she was last seen the night of December 3rd and 4th, but relatives didn't realize she was gone quickly and did not report it until this week. Police located her purse and phone, amping up concern. Detectives have worked around the clock since then to cultivate information and the public has really stepped up in regard to tips.

And even if it wasn't from that night, giving us information they thought was pertinent and a combination of that has really expedited the investigation to the point we were able to obtain some search warrants. Before I introduce to you our panel, I want to go to a special guest joining us. It's Gretchen's father, David Fleming. When did you realize Gretchen was gone? Probably that Sunday after she came up missing the following week. She was staying at her mother's house and she had been known, you know, to go out and stay with friends and, you know, come back every few days and get her clothes and go to work. And she was just gone a little longer than normal. And that's when we started looking for her.

I know her so well that if she was able to call, she would call me in a heartbeat. She would never let any of us suffer like this. The 27-year-old described as shy and sweet. She'd recently been living in Vienna with her grandparents. She couldn't wait to get out of Parkersburg to go to North Carolina and spread her wings to fly. And she lived down there for several years and then came back to Parkersburg. Okay, guys, you were just hearing our friends at WCHS. Let me go to Cheryl McCollum joining me, the founder and director of the Cold Case Research Institute, currently in law enforcement.

You can find her at coldcasecrimes.org. Cheryl, that's the way millennials are and the next generation as well. They don't live under the same rules that we thought we were supposed to live under. Like, okay, you graduate from college and then then you get a job, and then you get an apartment. As soon as you get a down payment, you put down a house because that's the best thing to do financially. No, no, no, no, no. In fact, I just read about a new member, I think he's at the House of Representatives,

says, yeah, I'm going to head to D.C. and sofa surf, couch surf for a few days, you know, and just see how it unfolds.C. and sofa surf, couch surf for a few days, you know, and just see how it unfolds. Absolutely. This is not unusual to be basically living at grandma's house because of the location. And then you stay with this friend girl and that friend girl and this one and that. And you come back, have dinner, stay a few days and then off you go. It's just it's very nomadic, let me say. Absolutely.

It's pretty freeing and kind nomadic, let me say. Absolutely. It's pretty freeing and kind of adventurous. This is not unusual, but I think it adds to the dilemma, Cheryl McCollum, because we can't ID, okay, this is the day she didn't come home to grandma's. See what I mean? I can't start my crime line. Well, here's what happens. And we know this, even though this was a usual type of lifestyle for her, there is a pattern. And she usually is not gone this long. And she certainly is not, you know, voiding to be in contact with her family. And what's really important here, Nancy, and this will go to your timeline, is that cell phone. She's not with it and she's not on it. You're absolutely correct. Back to David Fleming. This is Gretchen's dad joining us. David, I know that your whole family is twisted up so badly wanting her to come home. Tell me again, when you first realized Gretchen was nowhere you thought she would be. That is correct.

My mother came over to the house that Sunday and said, you know, this is abnormal. It's been longer than normal. And I said, well, let's wait till Monday. You know, the weekend's over. Maybe she'll be back Monday. And then she has to work. And so that's when I started going out, following the trail and looking for her. And I found her purse at one of the establishments that she was at.

My heart just sunk when you said that I found her purse. Go ahead, Mr. Fleming. In her purse, I found her debit card and her cell phone. So then really triggered me that I knew something was wrong. Debit card and cell phone in purse. You found it. And where was it? It was at an establishment called the Front Row,

where somebody from the last establishment basically returned it back to where they began. Is that like a restaurant bar? Yes. Mr. Fleming, you said that the grandma, her grandmother, where she was living, now, hold on, was that also in Parkersburg west virginia yes okay she lives in vienna parkersburg and vienna is just like they're basically the same town vienna's just a little

suburb of parkersburg okay vienna is in wood county west virginia it's situated right there on the ohio river which is an issue i want to go back to you uh on joe scott morgan it's situated on the ohio river and it borders Parkersburg, like Mr. Fleming is telling you. It's kind of like all one and the same. The population, now this is what's important in my mind, not only the Ohio River, but the population is around 10,776 people, about 11,000 people. That is small compared to like a huge metropolis. It's bigger than where I grew up in rural Bibb County, but it's still small compared to other places. And that touches on the way I would approach this investigation. However, it's the third largest city by population in the Parkersburg,

Vienna, Marietta metropolitan area. That's what I know. And that population count is going to be very, very important. So you said on that Sunday, what was the date? The date in December of that Sunday, Mr. Fleming? It was the 11th. December 11th. Okay. That's when the grandma comes over and says, hey, Gretchen hasn't been home. Now, how many days at that juncture had she been not at home?

Seven. Seven. Sid, can you get me the weekday of December 4, 2022? So the following, it should have been the previous Sunday. It was December 3rd, which would have been that Saturday. Gotcha. I've got December 4. Thank you for the correction because every day matters, frankly.

December 3, Saturday, 2022. That was the last time she was at Grandma's. Correct. Okay, guys, you were just hearing our friends at WCHS-TV. Now take a listen to our friends at WTAP. Friends at WCHS. In the dark, in the cold, just days before Christmas, the community united with one goal in mind, bringing Gretchen Fleming home. I want everybody to look to your left look to your right this is what community is. Fleming turns

28 on Christmas Eve a pastor who spoke at the vigil prayed for a miracle that she's home for her birthday. God we're just thinking about so many ways and opportunities father that you have shared with us that miracles do happen. And God, we are asking for a miracle now. Miracles do happen. And that's what I'm praying for in this case, Mr. Fleming, a miracle to bring your daughter home. 27 at the time she goes missing. She lives with grandma not too far away and grandma comes home to the parents and says Gretchen's been gone. She's been gone now a week. That's highly highly unusual. Now I want you to hear what law enforcement has to say. Take a listen to our friends at WTAP. Parkersburg Police

Chief Matthew Board also got up to speak. He assured the community that law enforcement is working hard on the case. There are so many behind the scenes at the Parkersburg Police Department that have really just essentially not went home since we found out Gretchen wasn't home. Board encourages anyone with any information to reach out. If you hear anything, if you see anything, if you have a recollection, don't hesitate to reach out to us because what might seem minor to you all might be what we need to help bring Gretchen home.

The latest in the search for Gretchen is that West Virginia officials find suspected human remains just two hours from where Gretchen was last seen. Straight up to Crime Online's Dave Mack. Is there any surveillance video at the front row or the bar she went to, the restaurant she went to afterwards? Yes. I don't know if they have video at the front row. That hasn't been disclosed in what I've seen thus far. You've got it from MyWay?

There is video at MyWay. We actually do know who she left the my way bar with guys hold on my way my way is also a restaurant bar they have family karaoke they have live music you can play pool they have this sunday brunch that people from miles around come to the sunday brunch with their families, interesting, Dave Mack, when was she observed at MyWay? Now, remember, her dad is with us, David Fleming. He goes and collects her pocketbook at the first restaurant she went to, the front row, which had her cell phone and her debit card in it.

Wasn't that the first place she stopped, David? Yes, ma'am. Okay, take a listen to our friends at WTAP. Another employee, Jessica McAtee, says that Gretchen's purse with her phone and other materials was turned into the front row the following morning, and it was there for a week until her father, David Fleming, picked up the purse on December 11th. Both employees say that it's a difficult thing

to see this happen to someone they knew from high school and seeing at the front row bar and are worried about the person of interest she was seen with from the MyWay lounge. When we hear about something like this happening, it just strikes you right through the soul because you're like, I was just with her or I just talked to her.

Like, how could something like this happen this way? So he goes there. How did you know to go there, Mr. Fleming? Because it's a popular place in town and younger people, you know, hang out there. So I thought to check there first. Okay, well, that was smart. I thought maybe they called you because they had this pocketbook.

But you went there all on your own. Yes. I showed a picture of my daughter and asked if anybody had seen her. And they said, matter of fact, somebody returned her purse here. Karen Stark joining me. Renowned New York psychologist joining us out of Manhattan today to help find Gretchen. You can find her at KarenStark.com. That's Karen with a C. Karen, did you hear what he just said? I mean, we're racing through the facts so we can get it out there and help find her.

But let me just stop for a minute. Here's dad. And I'm thinking of my dad. And you know how I feel about my father out in the cold going from place to place, bar to restaurant to bar to restaurant, to gas station to this to that with a picture. This is my girl. Have you seen her? Her name is Gretchen.

Can you imagine that Karen Stark? It's so vivid Nancy. I have such an image. And I'm so sorry of him going around saying, have you seen my daughter? And how strange. Who do you know? What female would leave a bar and let their cell phone be in the bar, their purse be in the bar? Nobody would leave that behind.

And it makes you wonder what exactly was going on. It's not a normal situation. I don't even care if someone had a lot to drink. You sort of have it attached to you. Let me ask everybody in the studio. Guys, are you within reach of your cell phone right now? Yes. I am and, and Ellie.

We all have our cell phones. You know, this cell phone is partly the answer to the question that you're searching for. Is this Dale Carson? It is. Guys, with me is Dale Carson. He's a high-profile lawyer out of Jacksonville, but the real reason we have him on, not only for his legal acumen, is he's a former FBI agent for many years

and a former officer in Miami-Dade, which is a very high crime area. Jump in, Dale Carson. You know, it's a mountainous territory in West Virginia. Cell phones have a limited reach in areas like that. Oh, good point. So looking at pains and watching her phone go from one place to another see if there's another tandem that goes from that same place to another and then you can tell specifically when she left by looking at the duration of the phone this is phase charged to see backwards how long it's been alive

and whether or not the father when he picked up the phone was still active so and there are other questions like who brought the the pocketbook back exactly right was she in her car i mean where's her car those are important issues but candidly there'll be transmissions that are limited in range and all they've got to do is correlate those cell phone things to isolate out who the hell was involved with her can i jump in nancy yeah but i want to tell you something cheryl uh yes hold your thought mr fleming this is gretchen's dad was she traveling in her car that night and gretchen doesn't have a car she she's never wanted her driver's license she's one of those people that just doesn't want to drive. She was more of a, you know, got a ride by, you know, friend. Well, that also is not unusual for someone

her age, 27. But it reflects an agreeability that makes her subject to being manipulated by people. You know, I mean, in other words, I don't know about that, but I do know she'd have to get a ride to wherever she was going. So we don't have a car to help us. Let me mark that off. Cheryl McCollum, joining me, founder, director of the Cold Case Research Institute. She's also active forensic expert. You can find her at a brand new, and it's a hit, podcast, Zone 7. Okay, Cheryll jump in so she's seen at this bar with an older man and there's

inconsistent statements that he's already made to law enforcement whoa wait a minute wait a minute whoa whoa whoa wait when you say older you know she's just 27 so that could mean a range that could be anywhere from 28 to 75. Hold on. I'm going to follow up with Mr. Fleming. David Fleming, we're talking about surveillance video, not at the front row where you retrieved her pocketbook, but from MyWay Restaurant and Lounge.

Straight up to CrimeOnline.com. Jackie Howard. Jackie, what can you tell us? Mr. Fleming. No, I have not, but I'm aware of it. Have you tried to see it? I haven't taken time to look at it yet. Okay, guys, you were just hearing our friends at WCHS. I've been told by detail of what was all on the video.

What were you told is on the video? Because what we know about may not be as, let me say, fully fleshed out as what we know about may not may not be as uh let me say fully fleshed out as what you know about what were you told is on the video i was told that she was at the my way and and appeared to be uh pretty intoxicated and uh talking to an older male okay what about this friend on and i'm not saying he's a suspect because I don't believe that he is a suspect. I call him a friend boy because he's not a boyfriend. He's a friend that is a guy. Your daughter, Gretchen, goes to the first place, the front row, with the friend, the longtime friend, who is a male. Is he with her at my way? She rode with him to my way, and that's where they got separated. Okay, gotcha. So you were told what about the video, Mr. Fleming?

That basically she appeared to be intoxicated and was talking to an older man and ended up leaving with him. When you say older, what do you mean by older? You know, mid-50s. What in the hay is a man in his mid-50s doing with a 27-year-old girl? Not judging. I'm just trying to figure out what this guy is doing there trying to pick up young girls. And Nancy, if I could just jump in. Yeah, please do. Because I wanted to make this point. Here's one of the statements he made to law enforcement. He told them at one point that night, early morning, she was in his car. So we not only know he was with her, she was in his vehicle at some point.

And nobody has seen her since. I think that's critical. I can add to that, Nancy. Okay. has seen her since. I think that's critical. I can add to that, Nancy, okay? We've got the video of Gretchen leaving with this person, and we don't have it all the way to his car, okay? The video only goes a certain part. He was parked in an area that wasn't picked up by the video. However, we have his own admission that she got into the car with him. He then claims, and this is where the quag comes in, claims that he just dropped her off at some intersection, okay, that they never went all

the way to his house. That's why police are looking for anybody in that area because he lives about two miles from my way. They're trying to find anybody in that area that has surveillance videos. What about the intersection, Dave Mack? Is there a stop a red light cam well i don't know i know that they the police obviously did not believe him in what he said because it makes no sense you're gonna drop a girl off that you picked up at a bar at an intersection in the middle of the night that makes no sense whatsoever okay now wait to you and, it doesn't make sense. It may not make sense. But what if she said, hey, I want out of here.

I want an Uber. Let me off right here. I mean, we don't know what happened. A Fox Nation exclusive. An international pop star stripped of human rights. How does that happen? Easier than you think. Join us for a deep dive into Britney Spears' conservatorship.

Trapped, streaming now on Fox Nation. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. And now another bizarre twist. What's the likelihood that human remains are found just two hours away from where a woman goes missing? Social media was rife with speculation the remains found in a wooded area of Elm Grove were in fact the missing woman, Gretchen Fleming. But another bizarre twist. We are now being told there is, quote, no evidence at this time connecting human remains found in West Virginia to the missing person case of Gretchen Fleming. Chief Matthew Board of Parkersburg PD tells us now the two cases are not linked. So who is the person whose remains were found and where is gretchen do you guys take a listen to our cut 12 this is samantha cavalli at wtap

new tonight the parkersburg police department has provided wtap with more details on gretchen fleming's disappearance if you have video surveillance, Parkersburg Police Chief Matthew Board encourages you to look for this car in your footage. He says to check footage from late night December 3rd through December 5th. If you see the car in your footage, contact Detective Zimmerman at 304-424-1072. During after hours, you can call 304-424-8444. What kind of car are they looking for? To David Fleming, this is Gretchen's dad, Gretchen Fleming's dad. What kind of car are they looking for, Mr. Fleming? It's a black hatchback.

I'm looking for the model here. Caught me a little off guard. A Nissan Rogue. Thank you. That's it. What? It's a black, a Nissan Rogue Sport. Nissan Rogue Sport. Nissan Rogue Sport.

Now, question to the panel. I assume that a black Nissan Rogue Sport is what the described older man was driving that night, correct? Correct. Yeah. Okay. Joe Scott Morgan joining me now. Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. He's got a hit podcast, Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan.

Joe Scott, they're asking the public if you have any footage of this black hatchback Nissan Rogue Sport. Call this number. We're trying to piece the puzzle together. Okay, Joe Scott, jump in. Yeah, you begin to think about this. Parkersburg has an advantage in this case. Where all of this went down, now the periphery of Parkersburg is not a densely populated area. However, this is a business dining district it's

down toward the river a lot of people go there and hang out so you've got a lot of businesses that are around there people are walking about i don't know about the the cams on the can on the stoplights and all of this sort of thing but businesses alone will have uh some kind of cctv footage that's going to be important here when you're talking about something like a montage because her movements can be tracked. And this is something else I think is critical in this case. You know, Mac had mentioned something off the air just a little while ago about perhaps some type of agent, a drug being placed into her drink. If there is video footage at one of these bars, you can actually appreciate this, Nancy, the uptake of a drug like that into

a system. Okay. Are you talking about GHB, gamma hydroxybutyrate? GHB or, or Rehibanol, either one. They're, they're, they kind of accomplish the same thing. They're both classified as date rape drugs. But, you know, the thing about it is both of these drugs and people will find this interesting that have ever had surgery. They're an aid to anesthesia. It's like what it's like a precursor to anesthesia. They put you in this kind of dreamlike state. You can't really remember anything, that sort of thing. And to Dale's point earlier, he talked about compliance. And that's going to be key here. But if they have footage of her having ingested a drink, you know, they're throwing out this thing about her being

inebriated. Well, you just don't get inebriated suddenly. If there's an agent in your drink, like a date rape drug, it's bam. I mean, you see it, the uptake is like really quickly. So you could have her with a normal gait walking about, and then all of a sudden she's stumbling. She has to have somebody put their hands on her to aid her as she's walking along. And that's going to be a big tell with this, you know, when all of this comes out. Now back to this car,'m you know they say that they're they're questioning this guy if they have or question this guy i hope that they have an eye on this car that they can get their hands on it as soon as possible so that they can check this car out and track its movements and also anything i mean

anything that might be a tieback to this precious girl. I want to add something off what you're saying, Joe Scott Morgan. And again, Mr. Fleming with me is Gretchen's dad. I'm getting information about these stickers that are on the back of the Nissan Rogue Sport. They are Darth Vader stickers on the back passenger windows one on either side and apparently there is a Outer Banks sticker on the rear window as well okay Joe Scott Morgan two words Michelle Parker do you remember the people's court mom who goes missing after she goes on people's court and she and her fiance the father of her twin children,

are fighting about an engagement ring. The day that it airs, she goes missing. And then her vehicle is found parked in a nearby apartment complex across the street from a mall, as I recall, a big mall. And the stickers, it was for, I think, a glow tan. She did, you know, would go to various homes and part of her business was that she would do these glow tans. There was a huge sticker on her car, which made it highly recognizable. They had been very meticulously scraped off the vehicle. So somebody knew that that would give away the location of her car and they did not want her car found. I think it was a Jeep or a Hummer maybe.

So jump in, Joe Scott Morgan. When you have these stickers on a car like this, it'll give you an insight into the lives of people, who they are, what their interests are, where they travel to. You know, in this case, you know, we've got, well, obviously, Darth Vader, maybe into Star Wars, and also traveling, you know, Outer Banks. Is this a place that this individual goes to regularly to go get away from it all? Is it their place? Is it their thing? Do they have associates that like to go there? So it gives you an insight into their life. And they're traveling to these locations in this particular vehicle. It goes to their style of life and how they live.

Nancy, can I jump in? Also, it's a highly identifiable vehicle with stickers on it. Jump in. Jump in, Cheryl McCollum. Joe Scott's right, but there's a flip side to that coin. And that is it goes to his crimes, meaning this is a four-door car. The Darth Vader stickers are on the back like where children sit. Then that sticker with the outer banks looks like those stickers that soccer moms put on where they go for the girls' weekends. This car was non-threatening.

This isn't like he was in a windowless van or a big beat-up pickup truck. This does not look like a kidnapper's car, and that's on purpose. Guys, this all occurs just before Christmas. But according to police, that is not slowing down the search for this gorgeous young girl, Gretchen. Take a listen to our cut 10, our friends at WTAP.

Since Gretchen was reported missing on December 12th, Chief Board says the department has been working around the clock. The investigation has not slowed down. There are people dedicated specifically to this case. And as I said, the holidays didn't slow that down. Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, still working. So it has not slowed down with time at all if anything it's gaining speed so far the department has issued and executed

several search warrants WT ap asked if the person of interest was a part of those search warrants chief board cannot say at this time since it is an active investigation I know it seems at times that we may not be you know forthcoming with information, but there's a reason for that. And we release what we can. We've just seen in the Idaho case where police were actively trailing a suspect and not releasing the details because the suspect would have been known and altered his behavior. We saw the same thing in the Delphi double murder of Abby and Libby. The local police held their cards close to the vest because if it had gotten out that there was

a bullet they thought ejected from the gun of the perp lying between the two girls' bodies, the moment that would have come out, you know the defendant would have gotten rid of that gun in a minute, in a heartbeat. So all the evidence is not released to the public for a reason. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. If you know or think you know anything about the disappearance of Gretchen Fleming, please call the tip line, which is 304-424-1072. Repeat, 304-424-1072. There is a very strong chance we can help bring Gretchen home alive. David Fleming is joining me. This is Gretchen's dad. And there have been reports that Gretchen was highly intoxicated at the time she was seen exiting the bar, the My Way Lounge, karaoke lounge. If she had been given GHB or Ruthie, that's exactly how she would appear, drunk, out of it,

much the way I believe Natalie Holloway appeared when she left Carlos and Charlie's. What can you tell me about Gretchen? I really don't have any information. I'm just going on hearsay of what was reported. Would she have gone out with her girlfriends and had a drinking party? Would she have done that? Or is it more likely that she was slipped something? You know, she probably went out and had some drinks.

You know, not to say that it could have been both. You know, for instance, if somebody saw me appear intoxicated, my close friends would know that that's entirely wrong because I'm a teetotaler. Nancy. Jump in. they would my close friends would know that that's entirely wrong because i'm a teetotaler nancy but jump in nancy i rep i represented a client who a very attractive woman who was at a bar and she got raped and she had ghb put in her uh drink uh she was arrested for fighting with police when she was dropped off at a fire station and she became hugely intoxicated just as joe met joe mentioned and and she ultimately got charged interestingly we had her blood because they took her blood and we could not even find any substance like that. And it is my belief that you can't, some of those chemicals,

you're not able to find even with a blood draw. And Joe can tell you. It's metabolized very, very quickly. The key is if you have a suspect in a case like this, if you dig through their home, you dig through their car, they shouldn't be in possession of this. If they are in possession of this, again, it runs kind of parallel to the narrative. You want to know if they have it.

Do they have the ability to use it? And also, if this individual has ever done anything like this before, that's going to be a big tell as well. I want to talk about the effects of Ruthie or GHB. Cheryl McCollum, wouldn't she have acted or appeared to be drunk? There's no question about it. And here's what would be also part of the MO most likely. He's going to like escort her out.

He's going to be like holding her elbow or maybe have his arm around her, leading her away. And that's why I think this video is going to be so critical. This guy has been identified by police. We know who the POI is. Take a listen to our cut 13 WTAP. Chief Ford says they believe the person of interest took Fleming to their residence. The person of interest originally told officials that they gave Fleming a ride and she departed at an unknown location. However, Chief Ford says the story was inconsistent and additional surveillance footage led them to believe the person of interest took her to their residence. Officials have executed

search warrants on the person of interest's residence, car, electronic devices, and a storage building. Chief Board says law enforcement spoke with the person of interest in the beginning of the investigation, but they are no longer giving police information the parkersburg police department returned to one of the locations that it first searched back on december 15th parkersburg police chief matt board confirms that the home on the 1300 block of division street is where the person of interest in the gretchen fleming case. Police are not releasing that person's name at this time. I'm learning a lot from what I just heard. Number one, everything we were talking about

regarding gathering surveillance at that intersection where the POI says he dropped her off, forget that. That's null and void. Because now we know police say they have additional information, I believe it to be CCTV or surveillance video of some sort, that tells them he took her to his place. Now, right there, Karen Stark, if he took her to his place and then she left, why not just say that? I brought her home. She wanted to leave. So I got her an Uber.

Why not say that if that's what happened? Why lie if, in fact, he did lie? Well, Nancy, let's be clear about this. Just the fact that he's no longer cooperating, that speaks volumes about him holding information and being concerned. And he would not tell the truth if he brought her back, because why would he? That would make him be even more suspect. So this is a nefarious character, there's no doubt in my mind. Just hearing that he's refusing to cooperate at this point. And it makes you wonder

what would be the next steps that they would be taking? Well, another thing is, I believe, Karen Stark, you're exactly correct. They're looking at the next step. Did anyone see that particular Nissan Rogue after it went to his... David Fleming, this is Gretchen's dad, is in an apartment or a home? It was a rental house. A rental home. I wonder if they're warning surveillance or witnesses that saw the car after the car left the home. As a matter of fact, take a listen to Our Cut 15, Gina Marini. They want anyone who lives in that area to review their home security systems to see if this car is in any of the footage from early morning hours of December 4th through noon on the 5th.

Let's go over what we can see about the car that might help it stand out to you. Now, it's a black Nissan Rogue Sport. We don't know the year, but it seems to be a fairly newer model. From this photo of the back, there's a Pittsburgh Penguins vanity plate cover. Now, one distinct thing that might show up on your home footage, both sides of the car have these Darth Vader decals on the backseat windows. As you can see in the photos, it's above the gas door and on the other side as well. And one more close-up of the car, we can see an Outer Banks sticker on the left side of the rear windshield. Nancy, I got to jump in. Please do. I'm going to go back to that video for a second. Whether or not she had her purse when

she left is key. Second, if she had her purse, then her phone is going to ping wherever he took her, to his residence or elsewhere. The other thing is, who brought that purse back? That phone would still be pinging. Well, it's my understanding she left the purse at the bar, the original bar. Perhaps. And the friend boy actually took it back when he couldn't find her to the bar where they originally met. David Fleming, do we know who handed the purse over to the establishment? Yes.

Who was it? And I don't want to say names. I don't need a name. I just need to know. Was it somebody there at the bar that night? Was it a waiter or a waitress? Was it the friend guy? It was the friend guy that returned the purse back to the guard. Aha.

Okay. That's telling me a lot. What do you make of that, Cheryl McCollum? Again, what I would focus on now is his cell phone pings. And if they have flock cameras picking up his car all over town, where did he go after going to his home? That's going to tell us. You know, Cheryl, that's a really good point. If he didn't go to the home and we were hoping

we know that he did go to the home the cops have already told us that they believe he took her to the home and what Cheryl is saying is where did he go immediately after David Fleming is with me this is Gretchen's dad David has Gretchen ever stayed out of touch for this long? No. There is no doubt in my mind she has met with foul play at this very moment. She could be being held against her will. Straight up to Crime Online's Dave Mack. What can you tell us? The search for Gretchen Fleming continues, and the Parkersburg police want everyone to know the reward money

for information regarding the disappearance of the 28-year-old has been upped to $65,000. Police report a reward of $32,500 has been offered to anyone with substantial information concerning Fleming's physical location. A separate reward for the same amount has been offered for information leading to the arrest and conviction of anyone involved in Fleming's disappearance or physically harming the woman. Parkersburg Police Chief Matthew Board said Fleming's family attributes the substantial increases in reward money to business owners who, quote, care about Gretchen and the Parkersburg area and wanted to help but wish to remain anonymous, unquote. As we go to air now, we understand that the human remains found in a wooded area on Cemetery Lane, of all places, have been identified as that of missing man Wesley Maddox, missing since October.

41-year-old Maddox went missing when he was reportedly walking to the drugstore with his dog, but never returned home. His mom, Jean, says she is confident the body discovered on Cemetery Lane is that of her son, and she is planning a memorial for him. We wait as the evidence unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.