Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - 'Supermom' Sherri Papini Hubby 'Blindsided' Again

Episode Date: July 13, 2024

Keith Papini was shocked to find out his wife's kidnapping was actually a hoax.   The 39-year-old mom Sherri Papini was reported missing and told investigators when she was found 22 days later that a pair of Hispanic women kidnapped her at gunpoint.  Papini said her kidnappers abused her and then shoved her out of a car. Papini was emaciated, her hair was cut shorter, and she had cuts and bruises all over her body, but prosecutors said she caused the injuries herself. The case was broken in 2020 when DNA led investigators to Papini’s ex, who told them she had been with him the entire time.  Federal prosecutors charged Papini with 34 counts of mail fraud and one count of making false statements. Papini accepted a plea deal but didn't explain why she created an elaborate kidnapping hoax, although she apologized for her actions. Since her arrest, Papini's husband has started divorce proceedings,  and Sherri Papini soon begins her jail sentence.  Now, Sherri Papini, who is in a custody battle with ex-husband, is demanding he pay her $30,000 legal fees. Papini is now living with her new boyfriend in a $755,000 home, and   driving a brand-new Jeep SUV. Papini also want more access to her children.  Papini  says she only makes $1,000 a month and has to pay half of that in rent.   The convicted hoaxer is also demanding Keith Papini, hand of other items from their marital home including ‘Grandpa’s truck, an inflatable water slide, a leaf blower and a smart TV.' Joining Nancy Grace Today: Wendy Patrick - California prosecutor, author “Red Flags” www.wendypatrickphd.com 'Today with Dr. Wendy' on KCBQ in San Diego, Twitter: @WendyPatrickPHD Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Atlanta GA, AngelaArnoldMD.com, Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women, Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University, Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital, Voted "My Buckhead's Best Psychiatric Practice of 2022" Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan" Mona Kay - Private Investigator, "Mona K Investigations" (Omaha, NE), Twitter: @monakay  Dave Mack - Crime Online Investigative Reporter See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Imagine leaving your husband and children to suffer the unthinkable, to believe mommy has been kidnapped, possibly even dead, and to let that suffering go on for weeks? Well, that is exactly what kidnapped fraudster Sherry Papini did when she pretended to have been kidnapped while taking a jog, leaving her entire family, including children, husband, extended relatives, to suffer, only to find out she was holed up at her boyfriend's house the whole time, then coming up with a big lie, blaming two Hispanic women for the kidnap, even starving

herself, losing tens and tens of pounds, bruises she put on her face and body, even, believe it or not, branding herself. Yes, she branded her own skin as if the, quote, kidnappers did it. Oh, I mean, it goes on and on. But that said, now she's back in court again demanding $30,000. You heard me right. Kidnapped fraudster Sherry Papini in court, poor mouthing, demanding $30,000. You know what? She owes everybody $30,000 for the pain and suffering she put everybody through, much less the fact that she took away time from real crime victims for her self-centered, let me just say, lark. I'm Nancy Grace.

This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Why is Sherry Papini in court whining she wants 30 grand? Because she's in a custody battle against her ex-husband. Gee, who should have custody? The loving father that supported the family or the mom that freaked everybody out pretending she had been kidnapped. She's in court actually demanding he pay her $30,000 in legal fees. And the whole time she's living in a luxurious four bedroom home owned by her new boyfriend. Wow. Does he not have the internet? Whatever. She claims she only makes

$1,000 a month from a job and living with the boyfriend. You heard me right. California's Sherry Pepini faked her own kidnap and it was kind of a gone girl style plot. And now she's chasing down the husband she hoodwinked, for lack of a better term. She faked out for 30 grand to cover legal fees and for the cost of a custody fight she started. Now, keep in mind, all this is while she's living a luxury lifestyle, the entire thing bankrolled by her big bucks new lover. Now, Papini was jailed back in 2022 over the plot. The plot she cooked up where she vanished, and I'm saying that with big air quotas, for three weeks. Then she lied to police and to her husband about the fake kidnapping.

Okay. Instead, the whole time she was shacked up with an ex-boyfriend. Now, now she's living in a nearly million dollar mansion paid for by her boyfriend. Who is he? He is a widowed car dealer from Orland, California. And P.S. she's driving a brand new Jeep SUV. Wonder where that came from. Let's just say she doesn't have any car payments. But let me take you back to the time of the kidnap. Well, I can't even see kidnap of the fakery. What happened? Let me just jog your memory because guess what we have today for your viewing and listening pleasure? Videotapes of Pepini sticking to her lies. She is in interrogation after interrogation after interrogation. I just can't stop looking at the lies this woman just comes from her mouth.

And she fully expects everybody to believe her. But this is where it all started. Take a listen to our friends K-R-C-R. Keith Papini came home last Wednesday and his wife Sherry Papini was nowhere to be found. In normal days, I would open the door and my family comes and runs and gives me a hug. But there were no welcoming hugs. So he searched in the house and their property, but learned the children were still at daycare. He found Sherry's phone down the street. That's when I knew she had been, in my opinion, taken or abducted. Now, days later, family, friends, the community and law

enforcement are still looking for Sherry. It's the worst thing in the world. It's the worst thing ever. Time going by slowly and their children don't know their mother is missing. It's hard waiting. You know, you're waiting, you're waiting for a phone call. You're waiting for something to tell us, you know, this is the direction or this is the house or this is the car. And that is very difficult right now. But Keith is determined to find her. If she was listening I wanted to say that we're trying the best we can and I'm so sorry that I'm not there. The family believes she was abducted and has this message. Bring her home bring her home just bring her home. Okay I almost made a smart aleck crack about waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting for what?

Your lying wife to call him and say, oh, honey, I effed up. But then I heard his voice crack and it reminded me of all the suffering that he and his children and all Papini's family went through during her hoax. Hey, I'm going to introduce the whole panel, but let me go first to Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University and author of Blood Beneath My Feet. He's the star of a brand new hit series called Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan on iHeart and elsewhere. It's great. Joe Scott, I remember at the beginning, the very beginning, when Papini went missing, you and I talked and I said, you know, something that's really bothering me about this whole thing about the kidnap thing is that her phone was placed carefully on the ground it was placed somewhere where it would be found it

wasn't just thrown into the brush and not only that the earbuds were attached with a wire and they were wrapped very neatly around the phone and then placed there. I'm like, you know what? That one detail, that doesn't fit. And I'm telling you, one detail can break a case, Joe Scott. It can. And a neat little feature that was involved with this were a few strands for hair that were caught up in that. And I look at this now retrospectively, and I wonder, you know what?

I wonder if this was planned as well. You rip some hair of there yeah you're pulling your own hair out and you're going to wad it up in there too neatly place it by the side of the road because they use that where's my iphone app thing i don't even think of that jack pulling her hair out in addition to branding herself and breaking her own nose. Okay, I'd love to gab with you, but let's move forward. Take a listen to Allison Sutton. This is the woman that sees Papini by the side of the road. I saw her very, very quickly. Her face looked, I thought her face was dirty, but based on what I know now, I'm guessing that what I thought was dirt on her face was the bruises, restraints.

It just, it was so dark. I barely, barely saw her. And like I said, it was a flash because that area is so dark. 4.30 in the morning, Papini is out wandering the streets covered in bruises and still in restraint. So just add that to the list. She's restrained herself. Now it keeps going. Listen to our friends at GMA. Papini seemingly disappeared in November of 2016, reappearing three weeks later, badly injured, claiming she was abducted by two Hispanic women and physically and emotionally tortured, beaten and drugged. Her husband, Keith,

speaking exclusively to ABC News just days after they were reunited at the hospital. One of the officers kind of like braced me and kind of put his arm around me and he said, uh, you know, prepare yourself. She's alive and you just got to be happy they branded her and her poor face i got like nauseated just looking at her it's so hard for me to see her like that bruises were just intense the bumps you know, being hit and kicked and whatever else. You know, to Dr. Angela Arnold, we're making light of it because we know Sherry Pepini's a big liar. And she cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to law enforcement. But did you hear the husband?

And what about the children? They're going to remember the rest of their lives when mommy went missing and she faked the whole thing. How can you do that to your children? Well, and I think the sad thing, too, is Nancy, what are they ever going to believe? What are they ever going to be able to believe in their lives again? She has left them all with this hole inside of them that they're not going to be able to believe. She has cried wolf. They're not going to be able to believe that someone is telling the truth.

Hey, Dr. Angie, Dr. Angie, you've got to hear her, her words from the horse's mouth. Dr. Angela Arnold with me. We're now in Psychiatrist out of Atlanta at AngelaArnoldMD.com. Guys, take a listen to Sherry Papini, so-called super mom, describing the chain, the two Hispanic women remember guys they didn't exist she nearly got women arrested they kind of fit her fake composite the imaginary Hispanic women placed imaginary chains around her waist and she says this with a straight face listen these are our friends at ABC there was a chain around my waist. Do you know what you were affixed to? Was it a tether? Was it like a robe? A metal cable.

What about the bathroom? What's that look like? It just was a standard. There was a crack in the tile. It was a light colored tile that was speckled. There was a crack in the tile. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Sherry Pepini just cannot stay out of the headlines and not in a good way. Despite her extremely silver spoon, privileged lifestyle, she has now gone into court and pled poverty and trying to force her ex-husband, the one she faked out, the one who was crying and upset on TV, begging for her return, that guy, to cough up 30 grand to pay for her share of a legal fight for custody, a fight that she started. Now, remember, Papini convicted back in 2022 for faking the whole thing. What more does her husband have to endure? Now, the husband, Keith Papini, is vehemently opposed to giving Sherry Papini, his ex, any more access to their children.

He wants her to see a shrink. Do you blame him and undergo a psychological evaluation and be barred from seeing the children unsupervised? Now, I got to tell you, this is conjuring up images of Josh Powell. Okay, Josh Powell. I don't know if that's ringing a bell to you. Josh Powell, I'm convinced, murdered his wife. He murdered the mother of his two little boys. His wife, Susan Powell, a wonderful lady, she went missing in the middle of the night with some bogus story by

Josh Powell that they went camping in sub-zero temperatures with their little boys in tow. Okay, that didn't happen. She's dead. And when forensic specialists asked the little boys what happened, they drew pictures of mommy in the car trunk. And then they said, mommy's in the crystal mines. In other words, their dad killed her and dumped her body. That's what that means. Anyway, back to Papini. In the Josh Powell case, he was supposed to have supervised visitation with the boys. What happened? The ding-dong defects worker takes the boys to his front door.

He snatches them inside. Then he kills them both with an ax and blows up the house. Thanks, defects. You scored again. In this case here with Sherry Papini, she needs a psychological evaluation to make sure that she can take care of those children and she should never, never see them unsupervised. After what she did, she tricked the whole country, cops, all sorts of law enforcement, her family, her husband, all for attention. Oh, H-E-L-L-N-O. She is not having unsupervised visitation. But let me jog your memory again about what happened when Sherry Papini, quote, went missing, end quote. Wendy, thanks for making time to be with us. You know, I always look for stories if I'm deciding about credibility of a witness.

And I have directed and cross-examined over 10,000 witnesses in one way or another, whether it's a motion to suppress, whether it's some other sort of preliminary motion, whether it's a witness trial. It goes on and on. You know, they really rack up, Wendy, when you're trying cases. But long story short, I look for richness in detail. Like if Jackie were to tell me, oh, I'm going to be late to the studio today. I'm like, why? Long pause.

Car problems. What kind of problem? Uh, flat. Where are you? Big long pause. Like, wait, weren't you taking an Uber this week? Big, bigger pause. So if you question and you're looking for detail, it's not that hard to crack a

story. And this woman is full of details right down to the crack in the tile. And you know, Nancy, that really was what broke the story for investigators is there was so much detail. There was an overabundance of dramatic detail that actually ended up being suspicious. It wasn't an issue of pausing. It was almost an issue of having pre-created this hoax, this story that was just a little too fantastic. And as you mentioned, investigators know not only what to look for, what to ask about, but then how to compare the way a story changes. And all of those details made her recitation suspicious right from the beginning. And I never have a problem with a witness adding to the story because under the correct questioning,

they may say, well, yeah, she gave me a Diet Coke or she this or she that. Under the right questioning, but to actually change the story is a whole nother can of worms. And you hit the nail on the head when you said drama. Let's hear more from Sherry Pepini. But what about this rope, this chain? And what about the so-called boyfriend, the ex-boyfriend? She's somehow convinced to join her in her crazy scheme. Take a listen to our buddy Matt Gutman. And over the next six years,

investigators would piece together how Papini had lied about everything from her fictional abduction to injuries which were largely self-inflicted. DNA from her clothing eventually leading them to her ex-boyfriend James Reyes. I didn't kidnap her. You know, I just friend in need asked me for help. And that was that. What did she say? She was trying to get away from her husband. Your husband beats you. Your husband raped you. I don't know what her deal was. Is it okay if I go look in that room, the closet? I'm curious if it's the same as she described it. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. This apartment, this closet and this bathroom look just like the place that Sherry says she was held captive. Wow. Where the two Hispanic women held her captive and starved her and beat her looks just like the inside of her ex-boyfriend's apartment where she hid out. Take a listen to more. Authorities say Papini's allegations of abuse against her husband were unfounded

and that James Reyes had no knowledge of her plan. And with Reyes's cooperation, investigators now believed they had solid proof Sheriff Papini's kidnapping was a hoax. The DNA that was on you belongs to James Reyes. We talked to him. He've been on the polygraph. We talked to everybody around him. We have the rental agreements, phone rental, car rental agreements. The reason why you lost so much weight is because you stopped eating. The reason why the brand is because he went to the store, bought the brand tools and branded you. The reason why the brand is because he went to the store, bought the brand tools and branded you. The reason why your nose is broke is because of a hockey stick.

Well, so she branded herself and broke her own nose with me. Crime online dot com investigative reporter Dave Mack. Dave, where do you get a brand? I mean, I've been in plenty of hardware stores, but a brand. Actually, Nancy, it was a wood-burning kit. Remember the little kits we buy for our children where they can make their own little designs with the little heating element and little... Yes, kind of. That's what they used. And actually, they picked out... It was a wood-burning kit. And in that kit, it has certain symbols. And

in this particular case, letters and numbers. And that's that's what they use look I know she's caused a lot of pain but a kid's wood-burning kit Jack did you hear that do we know what symbols she used it was always kind of held tight to the vest okay you pull it up guys I want to skip forward to our cut 65 I've got to hear more of Sherry pepini and you let me know when you find out what the brand was. Anybody that finds out what it is, jump in. And remember, guests, this is not tea at Highgrove. Okay? Jump in. The Bible verse was Exodus 21-16. Exodus 21-16. I'm no Bible scholar. What's Exodus 21-16? What does that mean? It's actually

about kidnapping. oh dear lord and heaven she dragged the bible into it yes and it's the exodus 21 16 is anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper's possession okay thank you for that tidbit let's go forward with Sherry Papini under interrogation by Shasta County Sheriff's detectives. This is our cut 65. and we can we can just skip to we can skip to the rock into the water and ruffle up the pond if we want to now again that this is your last offer this is the last time if you want to do this alone or with keith keith's been through this also on a different level so i'm i'm ready just to i'm ready to move on and throw the dart and throw the rock and see what happens to the water. But Sherry, look at me.

What do you want? I don't want her to get in trouble. She's not going to get in trouble. So the DNA came back to James Reyes. Okay, so she's sticking to her story. DNA is found connected to Sherry Papini that no doubt about it is her ex-boyfriend's James Reyes. But she is sticking to her story. What is she saying? Dave Max, she's saying, I don't want her to get in trouble.

And she says it so calmly. Is she still, she's going down with a ship about the two Hispanic women? Absolutely. And what she had previously was that the younger of the two Hispanic women held a gun and told her to leave and saying that it was the younger of the two kidnappers that actually let her go. And as she says, you know, giving me the chance to see my children. Now, think about it. Sherry Papini is living in a million dollar home, but now not only is she demanding 30 grand, she's asking, well demanding, the ex-husband hand over an array of items from their marital home. For instance, grandpa's truck, an inflatable water slide, go buy one at Target, woman. A leaf blower and a smart TV. You know what? As far as

I'm concerned, she gave up rights to any marital property when she pulled her stunt. An expense declaration, we managed to get our mitts on, shows Papini claims to have an income of a thousand grand a month. You know what? Get a second job, woman. She had been awarded $10,000 in her divorce in order to pay half a $3,000 debt. She racked up on a Best Buy credit card. She did that after she was arrested April 2022. Who is her landlord? Her new boyfriend. That is her landlord, a widowed car dealer. Man, this girl, she jumps from one pot of honey into the next. grand a month. Now that's according to Zillow. That's over six times what she claims to pay

to her quote landlord. Okay. Again, you have to take this all with a box of salt and with the backdrop of what she did to her husband and children. Let's hear some more Sherry Papini. It's just like the SNL quote, more cowbell. I gotta have more Sherry Papini. Take a listen. The reason why you can describe the room is because you stayed in the room in the dark for hours, for days on end. The reason why you lost so much weight is because you stopped eating.

The reason why you got a rash on your arm was because you cleaned his house. The reason why the brand is because he went to the store, bought the brand new tools and branded you. The reason why your nose was broke is because of a hockey stick. I know all of those things and I know there was no sex. I know all of that because he passed a polygraph test. That said, it's not an abduction she asked me to

come here no i rented a car i drove up and picked her up he passed the polygraph test okay it goes on and on and on talking about drama so in what kind of a mindset would she be, Dr. Angie Arnold, to literally starve herself? I recall she lost, I think, 40 pounds. I can't remember how much weight she lost. To break your own nose with a hockey stick. And to, Jackie has very kindly, thank you, Jackie, for saying, this is something I can't get out of my head, where she literally burned letters into her skin. Well, Nancy, she was telling a lie, and she has gotten so caught up in this lie. And I imagine it became harder and harder and harder.

And she felt like she needed to do more things for people to believe this lie. And you know what, Nancy? We don't know. Maybe she got into it, too. I mean, there are people who self-harm. How do we know she's not a self-harming person? Okay, there's self-harm for reasons that you, as a shrink, understand. And then there is self-harm to further your big fat lie.

We have no evidence she suffered from self-harming before she had to convince her husband and law enforcement that she truly had been kidnapped by two women. And she says it with a straight face. Take a listen to our Cut 67. She is absolutely not giving up with this, even when confronted with polygraphs and DNA. Listen. That's not what happened. What did happen, Sharon? I don't know. No, there's no way it's changed. There's no way. There's no way. The DNA doesn't lie. His DNA, his DNA was on you. There's no way.

Robert saw you in the house while you were down there. While everything- Is Robert. Spotted out of control, his cousin. Why everything ran out of control on the initial. There's no way. It's 100% Robert's, or James' DNA. He even collected blonde hairs from the room.

There's no way it's James. There's no way. Why are you saying it's not James? Guys, I'm not a shrink. I'm just a JD. Okay, Joe Scott Morgan, do you hear this woman just screaming? There's no way it's not James. James is the ex-boyfriend. And they're like, Miss Papini, we have his DNA. Yeah, we have your hair in his home. And she's like, who's Robert? And they're like the guy that kept coming into the apartment while you were there and you talk to him. That's James's cousin. And she she will not. She will not give up. Yeah, she's staring straight down the barrel of mathematical probability at this moment. Nancy, everybody, you see all those memes that float around, say math is hard.

Well, this is the reality of why you need to understand statistical analysis. The odds that her hair would be there and that her boyfriend's DNA would be on her are absolutely astronomical. And she understands enough to know that she's staring down this from an evidentiary standpoint. But Nancy, I'll shut up after this. I got to tell you, I see a lot, a lot of parallels between this person and that scumbag in South Carolina, Susan Smith, all those years ago and what she perpetrated. Remember, she called out African-Americans in that particular case and said that they had kidnapped those babies and they had disappeared. She's pleading, asking, and she gets wrapped up in this over and over again. And, you know, to go to Dr. Angie's point, she keeps playing along with it.

And deeper and deeper, the math reveals and numbers reveal she was there. She knows what happened. OK, Joe Scott, did I ever tell you that I was in the middle of trying a case solo? And of course, I got into trouble in court like I always did with the judge. And I called the guy that we were running the court together. I called him Herman Sloan and asked him to come to court. I said, bring the law quick. I need help.

I'm going to get evidence ruled out. So he races to court to help me and successfully I might add, he was a brainiac. And I looked at him and I went, Herman, oh, my stars. You look exactly like the composite Susan Smith gave the guy that took her children. Yeah, all it takes is to paint that little scene. I've got an alibi because I think somebody had already told him that. Exactly like Herman Sloan, who, by the way, went on to become a judge, not connected to Susan Smith. So, yes, I mean, you know, another one that would just

went down with the story is Jodi Arias. Jodi Arias stuck to her story until she was absolutely cornered. Then she came up with another lie. First, I wasn't there then. Okay. I was there, but they were two guys dressed as ninjas and all black and they killed him and I got away. Then it turned into self-defense. Yes, I did it. But it was self-defense. Remember that? Remember that, Joe Scott Morgan?

Yeah, I sure do. And this idea that, you know, look, again, not shrink. That's Dr. Angie's round. But it's it's almost like this delusional thing. They wrap themselves in. But it's not a delusion. They're playing a part at this moment in time. This woman was playing a part.

You know, running off to the boyfriend's apartment like this and dragging him down this road with her. It baffles my mind. I mean, apparently she tells the boyfriend, my husband beats me, my husband rapes me. When in reality, the husband practically worshipped her. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In the court filings, she herself describes she lives in a quote, beautiful new home in Shingleton, California, where she says the children will each be allowed to have their own room and that she will redecorate them to the children's liking. If she has that kind of money, she doesn't need his money. She also claims to have a normal routine

and stable job, a quote, consultant position. What does that mean? She says she has it with a small LA-based literary agency called Lady Moon Entertainment. Okay, what is Lady Moon Entertainment, and do they not have Google? Okay, back to Sherry Papini's stunt that broke the hearts of her family. Let's circle back to cut 64. Sherry Papini. Now, listen, this is what she's talking about. She, quote, I don't want you to find the person who helped me escape. You know, the one that held a gun to my head.

Listen, we're not to a point where anybody's going to jail yet. We're not to a point where anybody's going to jail yet. We're not to a point of any anything like that. We're just still at the talking stage. We're at the control stage. You seem scared, Sherry. No, it's not scary. What is it? When you don't answer, Sherry, it makes me concerned because I want to hear what your answers are. And I want to be able to understand. The only way to control things is for us to know. I don't want you to find her.

We're not going to find her. She's the reason why I get to see my children every day. I agree, but we're not going to find her. Okay, several things. She goes up. They say, Sherry, you seem scared. And then she says, I don't. And then remember, she's hysterical.

And then suddenly she's very calm and says, I don't want you to find her. She's playing them like a fiddle, a Stradivarius fiddle. Let me add that in. And then she drags her children into it. The reason I don't want you to find her, the woman that stood by while I was branded and beaten and my nose broken, I was starved. I don't want her to go to jail because she's the reason I get to see my children every day. Hey, let's hear 64 one more time. Listen to the tonal quality and the dichotomy in her first answers versus suddenly she gets calm and answers. We're not to a point where anybody's going to jail yet.

We're not to a point of anything like that. We're just still at the talking stage. We're at the control stage. You seem scared, Sherry. No, I'm not scared. What is it? When you don't answer, Sherry, it makes me concerned because I want to hear what Sherry answers are,

and I want to be able to understand. I'm going to control things. You're through. I know. I don't want you to find her. We're not going to find her because she's not real. Joining me right now, a private investigator renowned throughout her area, Mona Kay Investigations, joining us out of Omaha. You can find her on Twitter at Mona Kay. Mona Kay, how many times have you questioned someone and you just keep asking them questions because you know they're lying?

Did you see the tonal quality of her answer shift? At first she's saying, I'm scared. And then immediately sucking up a lot of snot and tears then she goes very calmly I don't want you to find her about 20 seconds later but yeah

her body language tells us a lot her voice inflections tell us a lot right tell me what do you mean by that she's so calm and collected at some point she's hysterical at other points she doesn't look the police officers the detectives in the eye um other thing getting back a little bit to the information she's giving

she thinks she's in control and she gives so much detail, so much detail that you'd think that they would be able to, you know, crack the case, follow up, have, have leads to go on. I've worked so many cases over the years, over 30 some years, I've never received this much detail from any witness, but yet the little bit of information I have gotten has led somewhere in most cases. But she gives, you know, volumes of very detailed information and it goes nowhere. You know, they don't. Yeah, you're right.

And what's amazing is they tell her straight up. We've got DNA. We have your boyfriend. We've got your boyfriend's cousin who will state, they're all stating you were there and you lied to them and she still is not giving it up. Okay, guys, listen to this. Now we see a little crack. Take a listen to our cut 68. At the, at the end of everything, once we've, you had to have known that this was going to come at some point. I was talking to my mom.

What's that? This is all my fault. I was talking to so many guys. Such a stupid thing to do. Yeah, but then how did we get to Costa Rica? Or sorry, Costa Mesa. Or Rio. How did we get to Costa Rica or Costa Mesa or wherever? How did we get to LA? There's a big jump and a leap from talking to men to getting in a car with somebody. But that getting in a car

with somebody is somebody you had a relationship with. He told us about the abortion. Wait a minute. Abortion? What abortion? Dave Mackack how did i miss abortion what abortion what they don't go into detail on it nancy but what they were trying to do is to push her to letting her know they've talked to this guy they've already gone over what he's told them and they're telling her that we know that you guys were so close that he knows you had an abortion that's what they were trying to set up that you're acting like this is two women and that james reyes is just kind of out here in the periphery but we we know who he is to you and we're telling you right off you guys are so close

that he knows about your abortion okay now i get, remember, she's saying it's my fault because I talked to guys. What is that supposed to mean? I talked to guys. I talked to guys every single day of the week. My husband talks to women every single day of the week. How is that supposed to get you in trouble? But here we hear more of that. She's still sticking to her lie. Don't get me wrong. Our cut 69. My fault that I was talking to you. It's my fault that I was flirting with other men. It was such a stupid thing to do. To love my husband and love my children. That's understandable. Here's the deal though, Sherry. Flirting with other men, not a crime. Lying to me today, yes, a crime. Big difference.

Telling your story of what happened to you isn't a crime. And I know you're scared of what Keith is going to say and do, what's going to happen with you and your family. Those are real concerns. But we also need to understand the truth. What about her body language were you um noticing monica well you know she looks down a lot she's kind of curled up um she's not confident in what she's saying she's giving so many different um detailed and so many stories that she can't keep some of her stories straight. So they're conflicting. And, you know, that's a dead giveaway.

And when she can't remember something, she said she sleeps a lot. I mean, she said she slept when they picked her up. She couldn't give some details about the direction the car may have gone because she was sleeping. Yet she was just supposedly abducted. You know, another thing that this is, Wendy Patrick, another part of her body language, which I found striking, was she was all she was closed. You know, you talk about opening closed and who's approachable and she couldn't be more defensive and closed. It was almost like the way she curled herself into a ball and her arms and her legs were crossed. There was everything about her body language that just

transmitted. I'm stuck. I'm cornered. She was like an animal in the corner of a cage. And that is one of the huge tells that really was leading these detectives to agree that, you know, they had all the evidence they needed. This was a staging act. This was not something, any part of it that was credible. Right. I agree. I agree. I thought her body language said a lot. What about the husband? Keith Papini, who has stood by her from the get-go. Take a listen to Hour Cut 70. I'm the idiot husband that stayed around the whole time. No, there's not. I feel like my whole world's going to flip upside down again. Why is that? Why am I always getting held out? Why can't you just hit me with it?

I did, but I told you. I know, yeah. Because this happened Monday. No, you're saying you can't tell me all this stuff. It's still an ongoing investigation, so you're not going to find out answers. I mean, there's just, that's the way it is. Obviously, can you help me, didn't throw me a bone, and then go, I mean, she made it up. Is that where we're going, right?

Or is she trying to come up with a whole other whole another we're not going to give you any additional details obviously you've heard questions so you can read through some of those and understand you've seen some of the photos yeah so you know some of the investigation yeah we found them we did yeah but you can also notice your reaction compared to her reaction he filed for divorce as things sit now he did walk away you heard him right there. This cut and dry. He walked into that last interview, Nancy, as the doting husband who believed everything she said. And we're talking an hour and a half later. He's he is gobsmacked. You know, he doesn't he didn't know this was going to happen.

And boom, that's why he says, you know, my whole world has flipped upside down again. And then he says, you know, you just heard. He said, well, can you help me throw me a bone? You know, she made it up. Is that where we're going? Is she trying to come up with a whole nother story now? I mean, that's this guy was rocked to his core. You know, I was just looking through these documents.

Papini writes, my whole life has been planned around my children, and I will continue to adjust to their needs for the rest of my life. Really? I'm sorry. I just can't get past your big fake kidnapping where you made them suffer. I remember being on the hunt to find Sherry Papini. And I'm telling you, this ex-husband, this dad, has been through enough. Hey lady, you know what you can do with your leaf blower? Okay, I won't finish that thought. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.