Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Supermom Sherri Papini's kidnapping case still open. No suspects, despite reward.

Episode Date: June 18, 2020

California mom Sherri Papini goes missing for 22 days in 2016. Her alleged abductors have never been found. When Papini was found, she had “a quarter-inch-thick chain around her waist and hose clamps around her wrists.” Papini’s face was bruised, and her nose broken. She weighed just 87 pounds. Who kidnapped Sherri Papini?Joining Nancy Grace today: Jason Oshins - New York Defense Attorney Dr. Daniel Bober - Forensic Psychiatrist, follow on Instagram at "drdanielbober" Cloyd Steiger - 36 years with Seattle Police Department, 22-years Homicide Detective, Author fo "Seattle's Forgotten Serial Killer: Gary Gene Grant" Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author of "Blood Beneath My Feet" Nicole Partin - CrimeOnline Investigative Reporter Bill Garcia - Private Investigator, "Bill Garcia Investigations"  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. A 34-year-old mother of two goes out for a jog and seemingly disappears, vanishes off the face of the earth. What happened to Sherry? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. First of all, let's kick it off with a 911 call from his seemingly distraught husband. Listen. 911, what is your name? Hello, can I help you? Yeah, so I just got home from work and my wife wasn't there, which is unusual.

And my kids should have been there by now from like daycare. So I was like, oh, maybe she went on a walk. I couldn't find her, so I called the daycare to see what time she picked up the kids. The kids were never picked up, so I got freaked out. So I hit, like, the find my iPhone app thing, and it said that her – it showed her phone, like, at our end of our driveway. We don't have really good service. Okay. Not the end of our driveway, but the end of our street.

So I just drove down there, and I saw her phone with her headphones because she started running again. And I found her phone, and it's got, like like hair ripped out of it, like in the headphones. So I'm like totally freaking out thinking like somebody like just grabbed her. You are hearing the 911 call from husband Keith describing what happens when he gets home. Normally when he gets home, his children and his wife rush to the front door. Not that day. He knew immediately by the silence in the home that something was very wrong. Calls the daycare and finds the children are still there.

Long past pickup time. Where is wife Sherry? That's where the investigation starts. With me, an all-star panel to break it down and put it back together again dr daniel bober forensic psychiatrist you can find him on instagram dr daniel bober cloyd steiger 36 years seattle pd 22 on homicide and author of seattle's forgotten serial killer gary gene grant at cloydsteiger.com, renowned professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University, death investigator and author of Blood Beneath My Feet, Joseph Scott Morgan, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter Nicole Parton, and special guest joining us,

private investigator Bill Garcia, specializing in abduction cases at Bill Garcia Investigations, who has actually worked on the missing persons case. First of all, to you, Nicole Parton, CrimeOnline.com, describe the scene when the husband, Keith, gets home. He got home in the afternoon shortly after 5.30, close to 6 o'clock. Very routine, normal routine that they had every day. He would go off to work. Wait a minute. Right there. Right there, Nicole.

Sorry. But was it corroborated that he was at work all day and that the wife, Sherry, drops the children off? Because if he's at work all day and she drops the children off that morning and is seen alive and well, that may exclude him from consideration because normally that's where I would look first. Is that the husband? That's correct. And he was at work at Best Buy all day. As they usually would, he had texted her right before lunch because sometimes he would go home for lunch. They had exchanged some text messages saying that he was very busy.

He wasn't going to be able to run home and have lunch with her. She went out for a job. She was training for a marathon and had started running again and exercising, getting ready for this marathon. When he came home from work, that's when he knew something was wrong. She was not there. The children were not there. That's when he began to make the phone calls, called the daycare, and the daycare worker said she didn't pick the children up.

She would normally get them around 4 or 4.30 in the afternoon. That's when he tried to track her cell phone and found the phone near the home at the end of their street with her hair in the headset and the phone laying on the ground. To Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State, explain the Find My iPhone app. I use it all the time. Yeah, actually it's an indwelling app that is used within these Apple devices that will ping a phone that is programmed into this device, in his particular case, into the husband's device,

that will actually let you narrow the field down as to where that phone is located. And so when he calls 911, he's saying, look, I found the phone. It's at the end of the driveway. And so it let them zero in on that specific location, not miles and miles away. It really closed it down. So that's a valuable piece of information relative to where she was potentially when she vanished off the face of the planet. You know, another issue to Nicole Parton, isn't it true that the, I guess the earplugs to the phone, everything was folded up very neatly and placed on top of the cell phone when it was found. He did say that. Her husband did say that the headset was on top, laying on top of the phone. But the thing he noticed immediately was that her beautiful blonde hair

was ripped out of her head and wound up in that headset when he found it. That's inconsistent to me. I'll tell you why. Go with me, Cloyd Steiger, just for a moment. If you're jogging and you have your iPhone, you're carrying it as all of us do, you're having your headset, Cloyd, and it's ripped away from you to the extent with such force that your hair is caught up in it. A chunk of your hair is in it. Then why, if it's ripped out of your ears somehow, why is it coiled up and sitting neatly on top of the iPhone? Yeah, that's a question I haven't. That is an issue.

Somebody obviously set it there neatly if it's coiled up. It would just be strewn haph that's a question I haven't. That is an issue. Somebody obviously set it there neatly if it's coiled up. It would just be strewn haphazardly if it wasn't. Well, I mean, right there, Joe Scott Morgan, what kidnapper would take the time to wrap up?

I mean, long story short, why would the phone be yanked out of her ear, the earplugs, and then be coiled up neatly and placed directly on top? That's inconsistent to me. Maybe you could verbalize it better than I am. I don't know about that. But yeah, I mean, maybe she hadn't left for her jog yet. And how do we know that the hair was violently ripped out?

Maybe if it's caught up in the wires of the headphones, maybe this is something that was pre-existent in there. You know, we leave traces of ourselves all around. And, you know, let's face it, those of us that use earphones, that's a very intimate connection that we have. We're sticking these things in our ears. It's immediately adjacent to all of our hair. So maybe she just had it wound up and it was in her pocket. Maybe it fell out at that point in time. Or maybe the perpetrator looked at her and said, you don't need this anymore. And they toss it on the road as they're dragging her into a vehicle. pocket. Maybe it fell out at that point in time, or maybe the perpetrator looked at her and said, you don't need this anymore. And they toss it on the road as they're dragging her into a vehicle.

Still, that cord was neatly wound up and placed on top of the iPhone. According to reports, I don't have a picture of it, so I don't know exactly. Maybe I'm making a mountain out of a That concerns me. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about a missing mom. Take a listen as the days go by to husband Keith. Keith Papini came home last Wednesday and his wife Sherry Papini was nowhere to be found. In normal days I would open the door and my family comes and runs and gives me a hug. But there were no welcoming hugs so he searched in the house and their property but learned the children were still at daycare. He found Sherry's phone down the street. That's when I knew she had been, in my opinion, taken or abducted. Now, days later, family, friends, the community and law enforcement

are still looking for Sherry. It's the worst thing in the world. It's the worst thing ever. Time going by slowly, and their children don't know their mother is missing. It's hard waiting. You know, you're waiting, you're waiting for a phone call, you're waiting for something to tell us, you know, this is the direction, or this is the house, or this is the car, and that is very difficult right now. But Keith is determined to find her. She was listening, and I wanted to say that we're trying the best we can and I'm so sorry that I'm not there. The family believes she was

abducted and has this message. Bring her home. Bring her home. Just bring her home. Guys, you're hearing our friends at KRCR News Channel 7. That was Christina Davies speaking with Keith, Sherry seems to disappear into thin air. Her cell phone left not far from their driveway. Her hair found seemingly ripped from her head, intertwined with the cell phone earbuds. Take a listen now to Susan, the sister-in-law, describing Sherry. There's no way she would do anything to disrupt her children's routine. You know, being that the phone was found and she wasn't on her routine, yeah, there's no way she wouldn't have gone and picked up the children. They're on a very tight schedule, and she's extremely close with them.

She's here with them every day gardening and doing projects, and there's just no way that she would take off. It's terrible. She's an incredible human being. Best mom I've ever seen. I mean her children, if you met her children you just, they're incredible. They're incredible because she's such a great mom. She's so hands-on. She really is the best mom I've ever seen. It's amazing. It's annoying because she's such a great mom. She's so hands-on. She really is the best mom I've ever seen. It's amazing. It's annoying because she's so amazing. We call her super mom. She's an amazing, beautiful light of a person.

You know, I want to follow up with Dr. Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist, joining us. You can find him on Instagram, Dr. Daniel Bober. Dr. Bober, that means a lot to me because that's a sister-in-law. Now, I'm blessed because my in-laws, all of them are awesome. All of them. But it's not just a stereotype. It's real that a lot of times in-laws don't like the spouse that married their brother or son. In this case, the sister-in-law is coming forward and saying she would never have done this. It's not like her. She's a perfect mom. That means a lot to me considering the source. No, I totally agree with you, Nancy. I mean, when you're in-law, when you actually get along with

your in-laws, that's usually more the exception than the rule. So if they're back, if they're backing your play and they're saying that you're doing a good job, you probably really are because typically more than 50% of the time, they're usually not in your corner. Is that true? Do you counsel with a lot of people who have issues with in-laws? It reminds me of actually a joke that someone once told me. I went on a pleasure trip. I took my mother-in-law to the airport. So it's definitely something that I see a lot. So that means a lot to me that her sister-in-law is saying this. And now the Shasta County Sheriff, Tom Bacenko, takes to the airwaves. Listen. Ms. Papini was last seen wearing a pink running jacket top. She's described as 34 years old. She's a white female adult, about five foot four inches tall, 100

pounds. She has blonde hair and blue eyes. The family has not heard from her and she is considered missing and at risk. She does not have any known medical problems or issues or mental health problems or issues. Guys, you are hearing the sheriff there in Chester County speaking out and joining me right now is special guest Bill Garcia, private investigator specializing in abduction cases at Bill Garcia Investigations, who has worked on this case. To Bill Garcia, what strikes you, what jumps out at you regarding what we believe to be the primary crime scene where she was abducted, Bill Garcia. My first indication was that the actual disappearance site was out in the open. It was adjacent to a paved road approximately one and a half miles from the residence, which was off of a dirt road. That dirt road is kind of a circular type road that comes out about a quarter mile down the road. When we arrived, we acclimated pepini house out to where the

disappearance site was which is again is adjacent to old Oregon road and at that location is a bank of mailboxes for all of the residents who live on that dirt road to the east there what was of special interest was that there was a number of neighborhood dogs that on my dog and I's arrival went off very loudly. I would say five to six dogs adjacent to that actual corner. And so it was odd that nobody had heard any commotion on that morning because if she would have been taken forcefully, she would have probably resisted. There would have been more of an indication that she was possibly dragged into a vehicle. But what was most compelling to me was that at the site was a small mound of dirt that was grass covered. And that's where the iPhone was found with the earbuds tightly coiled sitting on top of the device.

There was no damage from what I was told by a family member. And that to me was odd because if it was a takeover, there would have been more of an indication that she was taken against her will, but that did not appear to be the case. So once we acclimated ourselves to that particular area, then we started to do an actual physical search leading out from that area. Now, we had talked to law enforcement to advise them that we were going to be on scene and who we were and what we were doing, but they didn't share very much information. In fact, to this day, they've not shared very much information. And I know that media in the area has not had information shared with them.

They're holding it tight to their chest. I'm not quite sure why, but that's the way they're kind of conducting this. So to you, again, Bill Garcia, private investigator, Bill for the mailman to, mailperson to leave the mail, and they travel from their house, their home, there, especially in rural areas, hard-to-access homes. So that's where it was, right there, correct? Right across the dirt road from the bank of mailboxes, which I believe was about 20 mailboxes, and on the corner of the dirt road and the two-lane highway that passed by. So if she were abducted right there, Bill Garcia,

the PERT would have had to then drag her to the actual highway, because you're saying that was on a dirt road off the highway. How far to the highway? Just a few feet adjacent. Oh, okay, so not far at all. Oh, not at all. Not far at all. Take a listen to more Sheriff Bicenco breaking down the investigation.

Listen. The deputies last night when they responded, they conducted a search of the area and canvassed the area with local neighbors and residents there. And they worked throughout the night and into the early morning hours, along with Shasta County Sheriff investigators as well. They were also able to utilize the reach helicopter as the CHP air operations helicopter was not available and the reach helicopter came out and illuminated the area and checked to the fields and the sides of the roads for her and assisting us in the search operations last night they also used search canines for scent work local area hospitals were checked and of

course the sides of the roadways were checked as well. Ms. Papini has been entered into a national computer for missing persons. She is considered at risk due to the suspicious circumstances. Guys, joining me right now, Jason Oceans, defense attorney, joining me out of the Jersey and New York area. Jason, why do we always look at the husband first? You go right inside in a married couple, boyfriend, girlfriend, husband, wife. That's where you look out. You go right from the connected source, you know, the spouse, and you pull your way out.

Because statistics have borne out that law enforcement looks at that, you know, irregularity in marriage. It's just the natural way to go, good, bad, or otherwise. So far, no such irregularities in this marriage. And then a break in the case. And when I say break, I mean big break. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I saw a blonde woman standing in like that V-shaped area that gets created between the right shoulder and the left side of an off-ramp but I wasn't quite sure where I was when I saw her I just caught a glimpse of her the area where she was is not well lit so I didn't actually see her until I was right up on her, which really startled me. And it kind of took me a few minutes to figure out what I'd seen.

And I went a couple miles up the road to figure out where, until I saw a road sign, so I knew where I was. And then I pulled off onto the shoulder and I called 911. This never happens. Yes, I know it happened in the Elizabeth Smart case, but statistically, this is unheard of. Has missing mom Sherry been found? Listen to more of Allison Sutton describing what she saw. I saw her very, very quickly.

Her face looked, I thought her face was dirty, but based on what I know now, I'm guessing that what I thought was dirt on her face was the bruises. But it was very, very dark. I did not notice restraints. It just, it was so dark i i barely barely saw her it's and like i said it was a flash a flash early early hours of the morning and immediately shasta county sheriff tom basenko takes to the airwaves listen we are very ecstatic to report that sherry papini has been located and has been reunited with her husband and family on this day of Thanksgiving. I'm happy to say that Sherry is now safe and she has been treated at a area hospital outside of Shasta County and for non life threatening injuries. At about 4 30 this morning, Shasta County Sheriff's

Office was notified that Sherry Papini had been located. We learned that she was released by her captor on a rural road near I-5 in Yolo County. She was bound with restraints, but was able to summon help from a passing motorist on I-5 near County Road 17, again, about northern Yolo County. So apparently Sherry breaks restraints and manages to escape. To you, Nicole Parton, CrimeOnline.com. What did Sherry say happened to her during all these days? I think it was 22 days of captivity. What happened to her? What was her story? Her story is that she was out for her jog and was abducted by what she explained as two Hispanic females. She said that they kept their

faces covered from her. Pause, pause, pause. Abducted by two females? Is that what you just said? That is correct, Nancy. That is what Sherry told authority. Okay. Pause. Floyd Steiger, 36 years Seattle PD, 22 years homicide, author. Two women abduct another woman. I'm not saying it can't happen, but statistically that's unheard of. Yeah, that doesn't

pass the smell test. So, exactly right. Because it takes usually an overpowering force. I mean, this is a small woman. There's no question about that. But it just doesn't happen. Like you said, statistically, it doesn't happen. But I guess to you, Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator, forensics expert, if she had been kidnapped for purposes of sex trade,

I guess I could see females abducting her, especially if they were weaponized, in order to lull her into a false sense of security. What about that, Joe Scott? Yeah, yeah. And this is kind of a routine that's played out over the years, but it's generally more passive. You'll have a smiling female that will approach an unaware female to kind of drag them into this kind of event you know, event where they're going to wind up being kidnapped. But two females coming out and literally snatching this lady off of the street, it just sounds, it sounds odd. And then on top of it, the most bizarre thing is that they find her,

which is just absolutely incredible to me. A woman, as you heard Allison driving in the right-hand lane, sees Papini frantically waving what she said looked like a shirt. She was wide-eyed and panicked, looking it was dark. She came out of seemingly nowhere. So Allison calls 911. Back to Nicole Parton. Nicole Parton at CrimeOnline.com. So she says two female Hispanic abductors take her and then what? She says that she has held against her will. She's bound with chains. Through the entire

time that she's held, she says she really can't understand anything the ladies are saying because they're speaking Spanish. Their faces are covered, so she has a hard time identifying them other than she believes that they are of Hispanic origin. She speaks of their long, dark hair. And she doesn't give many details as far as what's happening, except that she is kept bound. She's emaciated. She wasn't given very much food to survive. And she does say that finally she is released. Huge amount of weight. As I recall, well over 20 pounds. When the husband, Keith Papini, gets to the hospital, they tell him to brace himself that she looks a lot different.

She then weighed just 87 pounds at the time he saw her. Her face covered in yellow and black bruises, the bridge of her nose broken. The husband says when he first sees his wife, he felt, quote, nauseated. And to top it all off, her long blonde's also a sign of mental and emotional abuse. Why? Well, it's like power and control, and sometimes it's about keeping a trophy. So it can be a sign of abuse or it can be a sign of some kind of deviant fixation. But I do agree that it's pathological either way to i mean to see sherry pepini if you look at her she's got this long

blonde hair it's like her crowning beauty and to joseph scott morgan forensics expert i mean we saw that all the way back to um concentration camps and before that and certainly after that, where women as part of torturing them, you cut their hair off all the way to the scalp. Yeah, you do. And it dehumanizes the individual. And for me as an investigator, one of the questions I would be asking is, well, if you're going to take this beautiful woman and use her in the sex trade, OK, why would you why would you cut all of her hair off unless they're trying to break her down, dehumanize her and then maybe build her back up. But I don't know, you know, why do you return this individual? 87 pounds covered in bruises, nose broken. crime stories with nancy grace guys sherry pepini is in such an emaciated and beaten and battered state when she is found back to bill Bill Garcia, a private investigator who specializes in abduction cases, who investigated this case. What do you make of the circumstances

under which she said she lived during those 22 days, her miraculous return home on Thanksgiving, and the search for the perpetrators? Initially, I believed it was a sexual abduction based on what the sheriff's department had disseminated about how she was found, you know, the chain around her waist, the brick tied to it, or I'm sorry, the block tied to that for weighting her down. The fact that she had been branded. Now, in all of the years that I've been doing this, and I work a lot with Mexican authorities when there's abductions that have gone in New Mexico, and I have seen the branding type situation. And I do believe that that was a possibility based on that both old Oregon Trail, Highway 5 is a almost a superhighway

for both drug and sexual trafficking between Mexico and the Canadian border. And I know that after all this occurred, a lot of the task force, both county and state, increased their presence in these areas and have been extremely low key about what they're actually doing. Since, I have received a number of calls from people who said, hey, I know who did it. One was out of Illinois. This particular subject said that he had found a slim wallet with a gallery picture or a studio picture of Sherry in the wallet, which wouldn't be, you wouldn't find that just somewhere. That would have to be specific. That was ruled out. Back in November of this last year i got received a second call uh from a gentleman in uh oregon who said that they had recently aired the story in oregon

and he remembers seeing these two people and it was not two women it was a man and it was a woman and he saw them about three weeks prior to the abduction as a food dish and I said well how do you know it was a man because I saw him without the mask and if you look at the sketch of the two people the person on the right looks more like man I I said, well, what's, what stood out about them? And he says, oh, big time. The man had piercing green eyes. He goes, you can't miss that. They both had the long hair and he saw them there. He attempted to advise Shasta County sheriffs, as did I. And I left them a text. Correction, I left them a message. And I know that they never got in contact with this potential witness.

Huh. Piercing green eyes on a Hispanic male. That's something you would remember. I want you to take a listen to NBC News' Gaddy Schwartz describing what happened to Sherry Papini. Listen. In interviews with investigators, Papini was able to provide only basic details about her kidnappers. One woman was younger with long curly hair, pierced ears and thin eyebrows. The other was older with graying straight black hair and thick eyebrows. Pepini's husband telling People magazine

she was badly beaten her hair chopped off and she was branded by her captors. He spoke about her abduction to ABC News. She was bound. She had a metal sorry, a chain around her waist. That is correct. She had a bag overhead. That is correct.

Her left hand was in the vehicle chained to something still unknown, say investigators. The motive for her kidnapping guys. Why is it that doubt has been cast on Sherry Papini? You know, to you, death investigator Joe Scott Morgan, she was actually branded.

I mean, for her to have done this to herself, she'd have to lose down to 87 pounds, beat herself up, break her own nose and brand herself. Yeah, I don't see how that would even be physically possible. I'm very curious about this brand, Nancy. I want to know, you know, it's like Bill was talking just a second ago. He's had experiences in seeing cases like this where people have been branded. And that brand itself has a very specific identifier to it. First off, we can talk about what type of item would they have used in order to superheat and scorcher with? And then what's the nature of the brand? Is it a flower? Is it

an animal figure? Is it a number? Good point. What about it, Bill Garcia? Do we know what the brand was. Well, a lot of times, as on the East Coast, pimps or people who prostitute women will put their brand. In New York, it's a crown. My experience here on the West Coast is when a Hispanic group, usually connected to a cartel, brands them, they use a coat hanger. And I've seen this multiple times where they'll take a coat hanger and they'll put it in whatever shape, usually something connecting them to ownership of that person and heat it up, you know, in any number of ways, and then put the brand on the skin. In in this particular case it was never identified what that brand was and I'm sure that's a major point in you know identifying who may have taken her again initially I thought it was sexual law trafficking as

I got deeper into it and we started to get information I suspected that these two people and they were described as Native American usually once a person is found you know we're done we don't continue right I later learned that there had been DNA possibly hair follicle or something that identified a man's DNA on her person. If that is true, and these people were Native American, I'm sure there's a test that would be able to identify what culture that strand of hair or DNA came from. You know what? You're right about that. That's absolutely correct. To Jason Ocean's veteran trial lawyer joining me out of New York. Jason, why do you believe doubt was cast on the

victim's story? I find it really hard to believe she broke her own nose. No, I don't think she did. That is hard. And there'd be other bruises as well, assuming that it was an object just to break the nose. It's because of the facts and circumstances that have been laid out. Two women, that doesn't happen often. You certainly don't get recovery almost in the same area or not that far away. It just, it belies the fact you have to discover them. And, you know, it's sometimes it's luck or serendipity or good policing or keeping it out there in the messaging. It just, it boggles all statistics.

It boggles the fact pattern of her turning up. It's almost like a cult took her or she participated in one. Well, as to the brand, Jason, we understand that it was a message of sorts, obscure letters and the quality of the brand very poor guys uh with us today bill garcia bill garcia investigations who actually investigated this case bill why do you believe so many people rushed to blame sherry herself i there's just people out there that don't have anything better to do and they they cast these kind of doubts. You know, she came from a family who was financially well off in the Bay Area, and they tried to utilize some verbiage that she made back in high school,

and this kind of snowballed, and there's people out there who don't have anything better to do, so they cast these doubts. Is there still a reward for information, or has the reward gone away? It dropped off the day before she was discovered. I do know the tip line is in effect, and that number is 530-245-6540 or 916-321-1020. The case of Sherry Papini's kidnap remains unsolved. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off.

Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.