Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - SUSPECT CLAIMS PTSD AFTER 'FINDING' MADDIE SOTO 13, 'ICE COLD, BLUE LIPS'

Episode Date: March 24, 2025

Stephan Sterns wants to keep his trial private and is arguing to bar the public and media from the courtroom. Sterns’ public defender, Alesha Smith, presented a PowerPoint to the judge showing how many podcasts, TikTok, Reddit, and YouTube accounts are following the case. She called the coverage “unprecedented” and argued it would make a fair trial impossible. Minch Minchin, representing several news organizations, countered that Florida and U.S. courts consistently rule proceedings should remain open. “Prominence does not produce prejudice, and juror impartiality does not require ignorance,” Minchin said. Judge Keith Carsten said he would rule within 10 days. Meanwhile, authorities released 35 recorded jail calls between Sterns and his parents. In the recordings, Sterns said he found Maddie “ice cold” with her lips “turning blue.” He also said he wished he had called 911. His mother, Debra Sterns, replied, “I wish you had too.” Joining Nancy Grace today:  Philip Dubé - Former Court-Appointed Counsel, Los Angeles County Public Defenders: Criminal & Constitutional Law, Forensics & Mental Health Advocacy Caryn Stark - Psychologist, Renowned TV and Radio Trauma Expert and Consultant; Instagram: carynpsych, FB: Caryn Stark Private Practice Tom Smith  -  Former NYPD Detective for 30 years, Co-Host of the GOLD SHIELDS Podcast; FB & Instagram: @thegoldshieldshow Barry Hutchison - Former 26-year Law Enforcement Veteran and Detective, Owner & Chief Investigator for Barry & Associates Investigative Services located in Kansas & Missouri Anna Sonoda - Child Sex Abuse and Grooming Expert, Clinical Social Worker [counsels convicted sex offenders]; Author of "Duck Duck Groom: Understanding How a Child Becomes a Target” Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author of "Blood Beneath My Feet," and Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan;" X: @JoScottForensic Shannon Butler - Investigative Reporter at WFTV Channel 9 in Florida Dave Mack  -CrimeOnline.com Investigative Reporte See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A murder suspect now claiming he, he has PTSD, post-traumatic stress syndrome, after he finds Maddie Soto, just 14 years old, he finds her already ice cold with blue lips. This revealed in a stunning secret jailhouse recorded call. He's also whining about his mattress and his food. And we learn as he's whining to mommy and daddy on the phone, he actually blames Maddie's mother, Jen Soto, for her daughter's sex abuse and murder. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. I think they do just a mess with me, honestly. This place is filthy and unsanitary. One little thin, scratchy little blanket surrounded by crazies all the time.

Well, it's not the Ritz. Not the Ritz. You're charged with murder, Stefan Stearns. The murder of a 14-year-old little girl. Hello? I know you're watching the Jailhouse TV. On your phone, according to police, thousands of images of 14-year year old Maddie Soto were found naked, being raped and more.

OK, that's you. And now you're complaining about your mattress going so far as to give the jail a one star review on Yelp. What are you thinking? The stories are changing and all I can say is thank you heaven for technology or I would never be able to hear what Stefan Stearns is claiming. For instance, that his girlfriend, Jen Soto, she's the one to blame for little Maddie's rape and sex abuse and so much more. And he's now saying, wait for it, that he found Maddie's body ice cold, her lips blue. Listen. Just seeing her pale face and blue lips and how ice cold she was.

And it's crazy. I'm going to stay with you. Yeah, I remember seeing my brother when he had passed away and that's the last thing I remember seeing of him. So. Yeah, you know, it's just, you can tell. Yes, you can. My dad, yeah. He's just, when they're gone, really, really, truly gone, it's just, there's nothing you can do. There's no coming back. Yeah. Well, you could get the death penalty.

You could do that. But, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Okay. With me and All-Star Pound makes sense of what I'm hearing. And I've got a ton of these jailhouse calls. I don't know if I can even get through them all because each one is a bombshell. This is going to be hard. But Joe Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, I'll give him the whole intro in a moment. But just one word. What was this girl's COD cause of death? One word. Yeah, it was strangulation, Nancy, up close and personal with his hands wrapped around her neck. Shannon Butler joining me, investigative reporter, WFTV Channel 9 in this jurisdiction in Florida.

Shannon, there's so much in these jailhouse calls, and I cannot wait for them to be played in front of a jury. From giving the jailhouse a one-story view on Yelp for their food and mattress whining about the lights. It goes on and on blaming Jen Soto, Maddie's mother for her sex abuse and murder. But now, and I find more probative, Shannon, he's giving more stories about how Maddie was killed. And the reason I went to Joe Scott Morgan for Pete Sate, he's a death investigator, a thousand cases under his belt is because you hear him on the jailhouse call stating that, uh, when you find them that way, that's really going to stay with you when you find them that way. And they compare the mom and dad compare Maddie's murder to an elderly uncle or brother passing away. What, from old age?

Maddie was strangled dead, likely after being raped. What is this guy thinking? Well, and according to him, he knew that, right? Because he also says on these calls that he had seen her autopsy. But what he could not explain even to his parents when they tried to ask some questions was what happened between 11 p.m. when she supposedly went upstairs with him in that bedroom and what happened at dawn where he now says he found her. So the parents kind of asked, well, you know, what happened? He's like, you know, I don't know. I just came back in the room. I can't sleep at night. So she started with me in the room. Then I got up

and walked around the house because, you know, I can never sleep. And when I came back, that's how I found her. Could not explain all of those hours before he now says he found her body, which is a story, by the way, that we had never heard. We've heard a few stories from him, but this was the first time we heard that. To Shanna Butler joining us, investigative reporter, WFTV. I am beside myself. Not only that this 14-year-old girl died in her own home with her mom snoring away in the next room or a few rooms over. Could you just give everyone a refresher, a nutshell, a cliff note on what was found on Stearns' own cell phone after he tried to wipe it of all its information? Oh, horrifying images of abusing Madeline Soto since she was 8, 9, 10 years old. That's the video videos that they found on his phone

he tried to get rid of them he didn't um that was you know obviously immediate red flag for law enforcement um and now to say you know i didn't have anything to do with any of this she slept with me none of this you know happened and, you know, I guess he must have forgotten that they had lots and lots of video of what happens in the evening. You know, it's amazing to me, and I'm going to play in just a moment, how his mom totally enabling him saying this was forced on you. You were set up and actually telling him, yeah, you have PTSD because you found her body. Okay. To Philip Dube joining me, Philip, we're not in court. Okay. You don't have to impress a high paying client. So don't throw any Latin phrases at me. Let's not make anything up. Just

spin it out a whole cloth. What kind of a sick freak not only repeatedly rapes a child over and over, but films it? One who engages in what I call virtual porn. That would be the defense, because they have to prove, according to a case from the U.S. Supreme Court dating back to 2002 called Ashcroft, that it is a live person. You're looking at me like I'm nuts, but that is a valid First Amendment defense. How are they going to lay a foundation? Well, wait, wait. A live person. Jackie, I need a nitroglycerin pill and I need it right now.

Okay. First Amendment right to free speech. Correct. Political, cultural. That may work in California, but I guarantee you it's not going to work in Florida. Did you just say virtual porn could be a defense? Correct. To murder? Well, to the sex crimes. Why did I open Pandora's box and ask him a question? Never mind.

Erase. Erase. Erase. Let's go back to the jailhouse calls. Guys, while Dubay stews in his own juices coming up with a zany defense of virtual porn, let's listen to more of Stefan Stern's jailhouse calls. Now, in this one, he is blaming Jen Soto, Maddie's mom. And yes, there's a lot to be said about her. But how can you blame her for Maddie's rape and murder? But just listen. You know, Stephan, I can't help but get the feeling that none of this that was on the phone was a surprise to you.

She was aware that I had certain feelings towards me. Yeah, well then why would she sit here and let you sleep with you? She used to joke about it, you know, called an electro-complex. She used to joke and say, you know, you better not leave me for my daughter when she's older. She was like 10. She laughs about it and they used to both ogle over me and comment on me and talk about me together and giggle and talk about how nice I looked. And it was, it was not an appropriate situation. Like murder is.

Okay, wait. I can hardly piece this apart. Shannon Butler, help me. I got to bring in a shrink also to explain what is an electrocomplex, but I'm not a shrink, neither of you. You give me the facts. Did you hear what he just says? The mom says basically, Jen Soto set you up, that she was, quote, aware of Maddie's feelings about me. And the mom, this Deborah Stearns, well, then why would she send her in there to sleep with you? Like what? Like it's Jen's fault. And I'm certainly not defending the mother. He says she used to joke about it, you know, call it Electra and warn me I could never leave her for her daughter. What? What is he talking about, Shannon? Well, remember, there's all these conversations about how Jen always thought this was kind of a Woody Allen situation and that that

could happen. So it was very clear that Jen Soto had some indication that something was just not right in this relationship, but for whatever reason that did not change her letting Madeline Soto sleep with him, sleep with both of them. It is so bizarre to me. And this is what at least here in Orlando, all the viewers get so upset over this. When they hear stuff like that, they immediately believe that Jen Soto had to have known something and that nothing's happened in that case, right? She is not charged with anything. And people just can't understand how a mother would joke about anything like that. And even when you listen to the parents- Okay, here we go. Wait, wait, wait. Shannon, Shannon, Shannon, Shannon, hold on.

You're jumping on the bandwagon. And yes, I've got huge problems with Jen Soto. Huge. Sending her daughter off to sleep. And this was much younger than 14. Alone with her live-in boyfriend. But she, Jen Soto, may have been wrong. Well, forget it. She was wrong. That's a whole nother can of worms. Maybe they haven't charged her because they want

her testimony. I don't know what they're doing. And of course she hasn't been charged. She's innocent until proven guilty. I'm talking about the murder. Tom Smith is joining me, former NYPD detective. I'm beside myself. Oh, guys, if you want to find Tom Smith, he is co-host of the Gold Shield Show at goldshieldshow.com. Why? I've got a dead 14- old girl body dumped. Video has emerged of what we believe is Stefan Stearns dumping her limp body. Another bombshell tonight is that decomp enzymes

from decomp are found on the front seat of the car where he, Stefan Stearns, had Maddie buckled in like they're riding to school. She decomped onto the front seat. Yeah. Explain that, Stearns. How are you going to blame Jen Soto for that? And listen, Tom Smith, I'm not defending Jen Soto. I'm talking about the murder and Stefan Stearns blaming her. I mean, it's always like this. It's always this, pointing the finger at somebody else. Right. This is a monster. Bottom line, end of discussion, where he took the life of this young girl and just blames everybody else for his actions.

He's very well aware of what he did and how he did it, but tends to let's deflect to this and that. I mean, he is a flat out monster. And the other part of this, like you said, this girl was surrounded by people that enabled him to do this. And she was the poor victim in this case. Mom, this guy's parents, all having an understanding of what was going on and let it happen. And inevitably just took her life. You know, Philip Dubé, veteran trial lawyer out of L.A. County, don't you just love when you find out what your client's really thinking on jailhouse

calls? It's not like they don't know they're being recorded. Every 30 seconds or so, there's a recording that states you are on a jail line. Everybody knows what's happening, but yet they still blab. Yeah, I don't know where that whole phenomenon comes from, except to say that they think that if they change their original story into multiple iterations of how it could have gone down, that they're saving their hide. But the truth is they're creating multiple inconsistencies and it points toward guilt. I tell every client, the initial consult, don't talk to anybody. Don't talk on the phone about your case. If you have to, just talk about the weather, talk about your favorite holiday,

talk about how much you miss everybody, but don't get into the facts of your case. Otherwise, you know what happens? I get a terabyte of data on an external hard drive that I got to listen to from the DA's office and then have to sit out and lock up and play for the client. And what does it really amount to? Additional inculpatory evidence. Hey, Anna Sonoda, question to you. Anna Sonoda, child sex abuse and grooming expert, social worker and author of Duck Duck Groom. Can we just get real for a moment about what this little girl just just turned 14? This is like 36 hours after her 13th birthday party, after her 14th birthday party, right? She just turned. She's practically 13. What she went through on a nightly

basis with her mother down the hall snoring away. This is a horrific case, Nancy. And it has been since we started discussing it over a year ago when she was first missing. What we have to remember is that cases like Maddie's are happening across this country every day. And what we can do and what we can help share with your audience and your listeners is that predators seek out single parents, often single mothers who have multiple vulnerabilities, whether it's work schedule, whether it's insecure finances. And Stearns took advantage at every single turn because he knew that he wanted access to poor Maddie. And unfortunately, tragically, she was the victim through and through in this case.

It's my understanding that Jessica has the Jennifer, excuse me, has immunity from within this case. And she is giving as much information to the police and investigators in order for Stearns to face the full face of justice here in this case. Well, I discovered her in the state that she was in after everything was said and done. So I've seen her pale face and blue lips and how ice cold she was. You know, it's always that ice cold and just... Philip Dubé, why didn't he call 911 if he just found her, quote, ice cold with blue lips? Why do you think it was a better idea to dress her up in school clothes and strap her dead body into his car and drive around like he was taking her to school? And then throw away her laptop and her backpack and throw her body in a densely wooded area when he could have just called 911?

Thoughts? The only arguments that he can avail himself to is that he was trying to protect the mother. That there, believe it or not, there was still some type of feelings toward the mother and he didn't want her to get into trouble. And certainly he did not want to be accused of doing anything to the child. So what do you do? The first thing that comes to mind is you ditch the evidence, if you will. And in this particular case, it happens to be the remains of this child. And he was in panic mode. And what do you do in panic mode? You don't think

things through. You do things sort of off the cuff, like an amateur. And he got caught. Okay, wait. So hold on. Are you actually going along with his theory, Philip Dubé, that he found Matty dead? No, not in the least. But if I had to defend him, that would be the argument. Believe me, this man would not want me on his jury. But I'm just saying that if I were commissioned by the court to defend him, I would argue to the jury that he had no hand in her death, had nothing to do with it, and point the finger to a third-party culprit. And who would be the easy dupe in this case? The mother. Okay. You would actually say that to a jury, even though you believe it's

a lie? There is no room for political correctness in a criminal trial. If you're going to worry about what the public, what the court. I'm not asking what the public thinks. I'm asking you, could you argue that to a straight face with a jury, to a jury, when you believe in your heart, he did it. Of course. Look, my beliefs, my personal judgment do not shade or color how I defend a client. All I need to know is that my theories are supported by sufficient evidence. If they are supported, I think it would be legal malpractice not to present it on the client's behalf and leave it in the hands of a jury to decide what, if anything, to do with it. But to just leave it, I could see an appellate attorney all over it on appeal, especially if he's condemned for murder. Guys, we're talking about Stefan Stern's secret jailhouse calls just revealed. Now, here he seems to blame Maddie's murder on lack of boundaries and poor, quote, sleeping arrangements.

Listen. You know, I've always had an issue with boundaries. She never respected any boundaries that I tried to set. You know, you've gotten arguments on more than one occasion about the sleeping arrangements. So I, you know, would beg her, you know, please make her go sleep in her own room. And she said, who knows, you hear this late for me to wake her up when she'd hear me. Hold on. Jessica Morgan, help me.

Jessica Morgan joining me, professor ofnsics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, star of a hit podcast series, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. It goes on and on. Joe Scott, do you hear this? I don't know how many child murder cases you have dealt with, but Stefan Stearns, charged in Maddie Soto's murder, says, I beg the mom, make her sleep in her own room. And so I raped her. It's beyond bizarre when you begin to think about this. And over and over and over again, think about it is from an evidentiary standpoint, this guy has literally, literally documented his steps up to the gallows. When you begin to think about this over all of these years relative to these

horrible images that have been recovered. And then we have to get to this point where he is finding her, finding her cold, her lips are blue, these sorts of things. I'll tell you why her lips are blue. Because if, in fact, we are to believe, and I do, what the medical examiner said, that this is an asphyxial death vis-a-vis strangulation, that means that she would have become cyanotic as hands, perhaps his, were wrapped around her throat and squeezed the life out of her. So her lips are, in fact, going to turn blue. It's not just as a result of decompositional changes. You have this that's going on, and we still don't know everything relative to the autopsy report.

One of the things that they're thinking about, and they have expressed concern, and I use that term in quotes, is the hyoid bone. There's something that they're seeing with a hyoid bone. And Nancy, as you well know, generally the only way that a hyoid bone becomes fractured is by applying direct pressure. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Joe Scott, whenever anyone says hyoid bone, I feel it's important that we show where the hyoid is, if you could. Yeah, it's the only non-articulating bone in the body.

That means it doesn't connect to any other bony structures. Its sole purpose, Nancy, is to anchor the tongue in the back of the neck or in the back of the throat. So it's right in this. And it's kind of, we describe it in forensic pathology as being bird shape. All right. But it's kind of in a horseshoe shape and it anchors the tongue in the back of the throat. I think it looks like a wishbone. It kind of does only without the little stem on it. Okay, but it looks more like a throat. It's not really attached to any bones. It's not like the hip bone connected to the leg bone. It's not connected.

It's just hanging there. Yeah, it is. And it's got two horns, well, two major horns and lesser horns that are up here. And when it snapped, you can see these little fracture lines in it. And there'll be focal areas of hemorrhage in there as well. They're seeing something there, Nancy. This is repeated over and over again relative to the hyoid bone. They have concern about it.

That means direct pressure would have had to have been applied in order to fracture this thing. And that means coming in with a C-clamp or throttling, this sort of thing, in order to choke the life out of this child. So, guys, with what Joe Scott said, all correct, I might add, from what we've been able to glean from word about the autopsy report, what is Stefan Stearns' response? He says, no one respected my boundaries. And then he blames the whole thing because Jen Soto didn't give him any privacy. You have got to hear this. She suggested, well, maybe you should go sleep in our bed instead. And I was thinking, that's like a twin bed, and I'm, you know, six plus feet.

And, you know, why would I want to do that instead of sleeping in our king-size bed, you know? I should have broken up with her a long time ago and just pushed myself. Oh, hell yeah. Oh, hell yeah. I think they do just a mess with me, honestly. This place is filthy and unsanitary, and one little thin scratchy wool blanket surrounded by crazies all the time. Well, it's not the rest. We were all very happy to be reunited in months since we'd all seen each other,

and there's no reason that I would have taken all of that up for literally no reason to hurt her and trade it all in for this. No, there isn't. But there's jealousy on the other side too. I mean, if he told you, I hope you don't leave me for my daughter, that tells me that he was thinking about that for a while. Guys, we are getting a treasure trove of evidence just released. These are secretly recorded jailhouse calls. Now, I don't know how secret they are because typically in jailhouse calls, you hear on the line, the caller and the receiver of the call can hear a recording stating that

this is a call from a CI correctional Institute. Everybody knows they're recorded. I guess they think the prosecutors just won't make the effort to listen to them. Well, guess what? They did. Joining me now, special guest, Barry Hutchinson, 26 years in LA, now owner of Barry and Associates Investigative Services. Barry, thank you for being with us. Barry, here we hear, it goes on and on and on. We hear Stefan Stearns and mother Deborah Stearns stating Jen Soto had been thinking about this for a long time. They're basically trying to blame Jen Soto for her daughter's murder. Did you hear that? I think that this whole family is so screwed up.

I guarantee you. Wait a minute. Barry Hutchinson. I don't care. I don't care who has a history of what we're at the innocence guilt phase. This is going to a trial. I don't care who, uh, wet their bed when they were three years old. Don't care. I care who killed this little girl who raped her repeatedly and murdered her. Now we hear Stefan Stearns claiming that Jen Soto, the mother, had been, quote, thinking about this for a long time. We see where he's going with this. Oh, yeah, he's going to try

to point the accusatory finger toward her, you know, to a certain degree to take some of the heat off him. But you know what? When you've got a dead body on video leaning to the left in a vehicle that's been seen and then you have a cadaver dog get a hit on trace chemical for decomposition. I think there's a couple of nails in your coffin there, pal. Well, you know, Dubay, you actually have a little bit of a leg to stand on in that there's a way for this guy to escape the death penalty. And I'll tell you what I think it is. The jury will be angry at Jen Soto and they may partially blame her for ignoring the fact right under her nose, just rubbing her nose in it, that Stefan Stearns, her live-in

boyfriend Mooch, does he even have a job, was sleeping with her daughter every night. The little girl said she wanted to go live in the woods. Wonder why? So the jury, right or wrong, may partially blame Jen Soto for the situation and reason, well, she's not getting convicted. I sure as H-E-L-L am not sending him to the death penalty. I agree with you 100% on that. They're not even assuming that they think mom had a hand in it by looking the other way with blissful ignorance and blind fate, whatever you want to call it. He is the one on trial, not her. His only other hope to be

spared of death is the new law in Florida, where they allow for an eight to four verdict in the penalty phase to execute. If they come back, let's say eight to four or nine to three or some other non-unanimous split, that could spare him death. Guys, there's more of Stefan Stearns whining, and I haven't even gotten him whining about his mattress and the food. So far, he's been blaming Jen Soto for Maddie's death. And we're all angry that Jen Soto allowed a situation where her daughter slept night after night after night with her mooch live in boyfriend. But to blame her for the murder itself is a whole nother thing. And that sounds like what he and his mommy and daddy are cooking up. Remember the mommy and the daddy not charged with anything. Oh, and I haven't even got to them claiming that he has PTSD because he found the body.

I mean, really? But that said, listen to this. I wish I had done the correct thing to begin with. You know, I wish I had run downstairs and shaken her awake and called 911 and all that. Well, I wish you had, too. I wish you had, too. I wish she had, too. Maybe she could have been saved, but, you know. She was beyond that.

Dave Mack joining me, Crime Stories investigative reporter who has poured through every one of these recordings word by word. Dave Mack, can you believe what you're hearing? I wish I had found her and quote, shaken her awake and call 911. Yeah. Why didn't you? They are feeding into it. The mommy and the daddy are basically feeding their baby boy on a silver spoon, a whole plate full of BS.

Yep. And I think that we're seeing that played out where he, for some reason, is trying to snow job his parents just and believe that they're believing him. And that's when when his mother says, you know, are they are they treating you for PTSD after what you've found? I mean, they're living in a real fantasy world, Nancy. This is only something that a child and I mean, a child talks to their parents like this. But we're dealing with somebody who's supposedly an adult grown up man and two adult grown up parents. And they're acting like the six year old who got caught cheating in first grade on a spelling test. Man, you put it better than I could have, Dave Mack.

So, Dave, listen to this. His new story is evolving. And Dubé, prick your ears up on this because this is His new story is evolving. And Dubé, prick your ears up on this because this is where the defense is going. There's a whole new story about how Maddie died. And try to, you know, on The Wizard of Oz, when Dorothy catches the wizard working the machines and he says, don't look at the man behind the curtain. I guess they want the jury not to remember all the rape videos of this little girl on Stefan Stern's phone and that hyoid bone being broken or dislodged like Joe Scott Morgan was just describing. Yeah. Don't look at that. Look at this.

Listen to the new theory emerge. while I was sort of just walking around and, you know, haunting around the house like I do. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Were you awake when she sent her into the room with you? Yeah. And she was fine when she came into your room? What time at night was that? Maybe 11 a.m. or so. I'm not sure. Okay. So she was fine. So what happened between 11 and whenever you found her? Well, that's the main question, isn't it? That is the main question. So Dave Mack, is he actually going to say she came into my bedroom because

they just don't have boundaries. They didn't respect my privacy. And then he goes outside to breathe in the night air, right? And he comes back and she's dead. And instead of calling 911, and she's cold, by the way, Joe Scott, Morgan's going to have a field day with the fact that she was already cold to the touch. He finds her cold to the touch and then decides instead of calling 911 that he'll just dress her for school, strap her body in the car, drive around and then dump her body. Is that right, Dave Mack? That is what he's shoveling. But I found something fascinating in the way he's talking to his parents, because he tries

to pull them back into things they remember from him as a child. Like when he talked about how he had left her alone for a while and he mentions walking around the house and he called it haunting around the house as you, I like to do it. He's trying to relate this as something that they can understand and identify with and believe him because to anybody else looking at his story, you're going, this is total BS. But his parents, he can milk these moments of past and present and blur them together

so that they're like, hey, yeah, I want to believe my son. I want to believe he's telling the truth. And that's where he gives them those bits that make no sense to us, but that they can hold on to. Oh, the devil is in the details. Stern, please keep talking. Listen to this. Well, I discovered her in the state that she was in after everything was said and done.

So, I mean, I can't get into detail, but no, I was not aware that she had passed on. As you know, I'm up and down throughout the night and I was not in the room the whole time. So he wasn't aware she was passed on, yet he found her cold to the touch with her lips blue. Now, the dad realizes the story is not gelling. Listen. But, you know, I'm up and down throughout the night and I tend to wander around the house and fiddle around on my phone and step out front and feel the nice cool night air and all that. There we go with the nice cool night air again, Karen Stark. Do you hear him? Later on, he even suggests that someone had drugged Maddie.

And he clearly indicates that that would be her mother. How much more blame can he heap on other people claiming he was wandering around the house and while he was wandering, he came back in and found her dead? Let's be perfectly clear. What's going on here is a cover up and denial. How does he explain the fact that he took all those photos, the ones that were on his phone and tried to erase them to make sure nobody would find them? Why would he get rid of her possessions? He's just passing along the blame and his parents are going along with it. I hypothesize because it's their son, so they're trying to make sense out of it. But all of this, trying to shield the fact that this is a monster, a murderer, that he actually killed this girl.

And he's saying as an adult that somebody was forcing him to sleep with her, to be with her, encouraging it. And he had nothing to do with this mature man who's become an infant and totally innocent. We know that that is not true. Well, I'm assuming that they are treating you for PTSD because you found the body, not to mention everything else that went along with that. No, not treating me for anything except my blood pressure. Well, they need to do the PTSD because you're not sleeping.

Well, you know, I keep telling myself that. I have to maintain my faith and trust in God. I have nothing. Now listen to this. Does anybody know the meaning of narcissist? Here we hear Stefan Stearns asking his parents to dump money into an account for a trust fund for him after they die. If it's going to be difficult to come by, I might need some sort of resources to help me get back on my feet immediately until I can work out the income situation. Yeah. Don't know what that would be, but because we may be gone by the time you get out.

I don't know. I don't know if there's any way we might be able to set up some sort of a trust fund or something. A trust fund. Dave Mack, what did I just hear? You know, I just heard more and more BS lies between Stearns trying to sell a bill of goods to his parents. But something that I'm caught with, Nancy, is how a couple of times during the course of these 35 phone calls, he actually, Stearns, mentions hurting his defense by saying something or giving too many details. And if we're truly seeking the truth and he's truly an innocent man who did nothing wrong, that type of truth is something you want everybody to hear.

So you would be saying these details for all the world to hear because you're an innocent guy. They got the wrong man. You know, anything would do. But he keeps covering up. He can't even tell the truth to his parents because he sold them a bill of goods that they're buying into. an innocent guy. They got the wrong man. You know, anything would do. But he keeps covering up. He can't even tell the truth to his parents because he sold them a bill of goods that they're buying into. Our baby boy would never do this. It's her fault. The evil girls in his life, the females in his life did did wrong. And he's the victim. Yeah, I remember Karen Stark, how he was talking about how Maddie, who's 13, and her mother ogled him and admired him and made a big fuss about him.

It's their fault. I mean, narcissism. He wants his parents who are retired to set him up a trust fund of their money to support him when he gets out and after they die. That's what's his. That's what's on his mind. Of course, Nancy, there's no guilt there because he can't feel. But all he's worried about is what's going to happen in his future. Let them infantilize him and feel like they have to take care of him.

It's all so typical. I can't think of a single sexual abuser, really somebody who rapes children, who doesn't wind up saying that the children wanted it, that it's perfectly normal. It's okay to do this. And he fits the bill. Well, you're right, Karen Stark. Barry Hutchinson, 25 years in L.A. now, chief investigator, Barry and Associates. Barry, he actually said she started it. Talking about the little girl, Maddie started the molestation. You know, the whole thing just sounds so sick. But, you know, that's a commonality in these abusers.

You know, they like you said earlier, they always try to circumvent guilt of their self by saying that somebody else is the one that initiated the contact or they're the ones that initiated the abuse. It's just the way that these pedophiles think, you know, and it makes me sick, literally. I mean, child abuse cases like this, I mean, that was the one thing in all my career in law enforcement that used to bother me the most. And whenever you had, you know, cases like this where you know there's an innocent victim, that's a child. And you feel like you're sitting in a chair with your hands and your arms tied. You can't do anything about it. As an investigator,

looking at this POS sitting across from you at a table, knowing damn good and well that you feel like just choking him to death right there at that point, but you can't. And yet they have the audacity to sit there and try to put this whole BS story on you to make you feel sorry for them. And we have to kind of play along with it and be a good actor to try to extricate information from them that's going to put them away for the rest of their life where they can't do it to another child. Joe Scott Morgan, have you seen it all now? Stefan Stearns wants a trust fund set up by mommy and daddy. Yeah, one of the most glaring things

is that when his dad actually said, well, we might be gone. Did you hear that? And then he just continues on with this through line of all about him. He didn't pause for a moment and say, well, my God, that's horrible. Please don't say that, that you're going to be gone or the mama's going to be gone. That's not what it's about. It's about him moving forward. And he's going to need money when he gets out to get back on his feet. And, you know, that that that shows you the level of callousness. And he's doing this to his parents.

How much more so? How much more so, Nancy, a 13 year old little girl that he's been victimizing allegedly lo these many years? He's that callous. He's that very callous. He's not genetically connected to her, Nancy. He just views her as something that is disposable. And as we found out, she was kind of tossed away like rubbish, wasn't she?

Maddie Soto was not disposable. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. Nancy Grace signing off Goodbye friend